Twirl and Dump For Martin Ayres Swing Mechanics..and How to Do It .

[@georgesmith4639]

I can support your point by saying it is a FACT when I do this Martin swing using my sand wedge my look is not that different from my normal swing but my ball contact is completely different and the consistency of trajectory is dramatically better. People with real talent do whatever it is they do. Those who are too lazy to find their talent get their jollies being a critic. I have to imagine they are frustrated, bitter individuals. You see these "critics" all over youtube criticizing what they don't really understand. Thanks for what you do and please ban the trolls.

[@1atomicgolf]

Hi George , I don't publicize my channel at all for the reason of the people who just want to criticize the stuff I espouse because they simply do not have the capability to understand what I am extolling ... they do not take the time or effort to ask for clarification of points they don't understand and simply blast away with incredibly uninformed opinions of criticism. I have been lucky on my channel that in all the years I have been going I have only ever had about dozen Crticasters and I just block them from further disruption . The 'intent/feeling' differential effect on ball flight is very much a reality even if the 'apparent' look of the swing is not that different which you yourself have clearly experienced ...glad you enjoy the channel .. I like the low profile of the channel frankly and it seems to because off its semi hidden profile to attract the genuine enthusiast golfers...which I really like. cheers JH

[@gregsuske2131]

Thanks I like it when you keep repeating intention when I keep thinking intention it works and that's for those other wimps don't worry about them will take their money and they can go crap at Mommy's house

[@1atomicgolf]

Hi Greg, "intention' I think is the mother of 'Reflex' .. that being I think you have to apply significant intention in a swing process at one time in order for the action to become sufficiently ingrained to make it a Reflex action . I can tell you I have never been able to ingrain a specific action without significant repetitive intentional processing of the specific action I want to achieve in my golf swing. If the brain doesnt have an embedded specific thought process it simply will not repeat that process consitently and automatically, bodily gross motor movement for any process of body movement is a learned repetive input process. You just have to give the brain a program , before it can learn a program and apply it..least thats what I have always had to do, and when talking with some of the great players over the years they have supported that requirement. Cheers JH

[@robo265]

JH it doesn’t matter what swing you are trying out they all look great

[@1atomicgolf]

Thanks for that Ro Bo.. a lot of the swings I talk about and try to demonstrate are quite significantly different in 'feel' and 'intent' ..but most of the swings tend to look very similar in execution. I think the important thing is to try to apply the difference of 'feel' and 'intent' to the swings ... its the 'feel' imput that will make the difference of application. Every different swing type I endeavour to apply always gives a different ball flight result.. even though the swings will not exhibit a great deal of visual difference.. its the application of the 'feel' input that gets the difference of ball flight . cheers JH

[@SethKash]

Interesting in that I’ve always called it my “Trebuchet”. Anyway you are correct in that no matter the swing thought it’s always the intention. I like that. Of course I shall use it whenever the situation arises.

[@1atomicgolf]

Hi Steven, A 'Trebuchet' action is a great way to release stored energy in a golf swing.. and because the arms/hands are trying to stop at impact.. the clubhead doesn't get moved in or out at impact.. the clubhead just wants to 'get past' the the hands/arms at impact.. not travel with them through impact. Its not an easy action to learn or develop because it goes against everything we have ever tried to do in a golf swing. Even if you don't use it in a full swing.. its a great action for short shots into the green ... and practicing short shots on the range is a good way to learn the feeling of the Trebuchet action. cheers JH

[@rogermoores9416]

Swing thoughts are not motion producers; intention is a picture of desired result ie. task.

[@Truthmoses]

"Elementary, Dear Watson..." That cracked me up!! 4:35

[@johnrollins9404]

I've been told it looks like I'm taking a dump in my golf swing but it's not like Martin, thanks for the explanation.

[@1atomicgolf]

hi John, That's very funny ... if it makes you feel better I have had the same description tagged on my swing over the years by my so called 'buddies'... I wondered how long it would take someone to differentiate between the types of 'Dump' that can be attributed to some Golf Swings... the good thing now going forward is that you should be able to 'Dump' your swing action on all those unkind commentators of the past with great revenge . cheers Jh

[@georgesmith4639]

My dump happens after the front nine when I walk into the snack bar and dump the scorecard in the waste bin. ;)

[@1atomicgolf]

Hi George, I think your scorecard 'Dumping' can go from the the bin at the snack bar to the score checkers box and to prominent display on the results board for all to see...could we call that ... "A Change In Dumping Habits'....or 'Happy Dumping''.... cheers JH

[@gordongrayson9978]

Awareness and intent. Pure tai chi.

[@1atomicgolf]

Hi Gordon, Tai Chi exponents should do very well with 'Intent ' thinking for sure. cheers JH

[@Chckhmmr]

Good God man, spit it out already.

[@1atomicgolf]

If you do not have the commitment to allocating 20+ minutes to 'learn' the specifics of a swing process that is clearly different from conventional swing mechanics.. two things are clearly evident. One.. you really dont have the required level of learning requirement to make a change that will provide a significant benefit for your golf swing.. which is obviously an issue now or you wouldnt be looking at videos like this at present. Two.. You do not uptake pertanent information that is clearly evidently given verbally and physically as an obvious requirement for the swing change to be implemented. Bottom line of argument support being.. how.. do you learn the swing methodology intracasies of application.. if they are not verbalised and physically demonstrated in the video. I went to great lengths in the first part of the video to explain the reasoning for the extroplated explanation of the swing process.. that being 'how' do you learn and understand the swing process if it is not extrapolated chapter and verse verbally and physically . If you are of such a being that you can decipher something without 'any' explanation information dialogue requirement.. you should have just fast forwarded the video to the end part where I was hitting shots and worked out from the visuals only what the baseline swing mechanics intent of the swing bprocess was. "Nothing' in the verbiage I extolled in the early part of the video was not important in gaining the understanding of the swing metodology. To not listen to the verbiage explanation of the swing process is akin to seeing Eisteins equation of .. e=mc2 and thinking you can know what its origin is without hearing Einstein explain it or read its explanation in a textbook. The good thing about 'all' my videos is that .. none of them are compulsory viewing. Cheers JH

[@gregsuske2131]

Good job but changed my address position like yours with my left hand and it seems like a twirl it easier it sure takes a long time to twirl it but when you have a twirled he just got a thing to let it go that's the feeling I get what do you think

[@1atomicgolf]

Hi Greg, You will get that 'feeling' of extra time requirement for the actual Twirling process.. when you are doing it correctly. The process does take time to correctly apply it, and when you do get that rolling up effect of the twirling process because of the time it takes you invariably will feel that the rolled up package you have created has nothing else to do but just 'Unroll' in the downswing.. which will feel like you are just ..'letting it go' in the downswing. The reality is the process just has to 'unroll' itself from the rolledup/twirled.. position you have created in the backswing.. but generally once you have twirled the clubhead correctly in the backswing the 'untwirling' will just happen automatically in the downswing. Cheers JH

[@Greenballed]

Pre set caddy drag?

[@rogermoores9416]

Intention is visualization of result manifested in swing

[@1atomicgolf]

Everything you do in the Golf Swing is 'Intentional'.. the body will not do anything unless it has an embedded neural program to do such.. be those programs .. conscious.. or.. unconscious.. they must be inserted into the neural response mechanisms in order to produce anything physiologically. All the automatic/unconscious processes we have within our body's. Physiology etc.. have all at one time been programmed and embedded in the neural mechanism.. The processes that keep the body functioning automatically/unconsciously like heart beating.. the lungs functioning.. the kidneys/liver purifying the blood etc.. whilst have not been consciously programmed into function.. they have been genetically integrated into the neural processes through the evolution of time. Cheers JH

[@georgethejungle5612]

Thank you finally I got it👍

[@1atomicgolf]

Of course, my interpretation of Twirl and Dump is how 'I' saw it being applied,.. Martin Ayers could explain and demonstrate it far better than I could.. but generally, I think what I espoused about the swing process has some relevant information in my explanation. cheers JH

[@georgethejungle5612]

Actually, your video is the best for me. I saw some of Martin's videos few years back I knew its powerful stuff but just couldnt understand it. That is until I watched your video, I pickup the twirl and dump right the way. Its good stuff👍 Again many thanks for the helping video! Cheers🙂

[@1atomicgolf]

@@georgethejungle5612 -Hi George, Marty is a very deep thinker about swing mechanics, he used to bamboozle me lots of times as well, but in the flesh when he was explaining his theories he could get across precisely what was happening in the swing process because he would take you through the motion physically..he would make you create the motion by yourself physically. It was always enlightening when you spent a practice session with Marty, but the physical reproducing of the swing process by way of Marty putting hands upon you to take you through the process was the key to learning Twirl and Dump successfully... Marty really knows how a golf swing should work. cheers JH

[@TheJeffatan]

JH. Marty mentions that the triggering the twirl he called it a j bar move. it is very important not to lift the club to the top. The j bar moves actually energized the clubhead and the club "swings" to the top...he mentioned in Five Lessons how...Hogan always wanted swing his club in the back and hit a certain spot. I tried that and yes if you swing it..it does just go to one spot. Everybody's spot us different. lifting and placing the club is certain positions on the backswing...makes finding that spit quite random. Marty also talks about leg travel determines the amount of club travel on the backswing....But that another subject.

[@1atomicgolf]

The club will never travel consistently unless you are 'swinging' it ...true inertia unimpeded will create an orbiting process which will position the club automatically...you are quite right in your comments referring to 'random' resultant placement of the club head during the swing if it is just 'moved' instead of being 'swung'.... cheers JH

[@TheJeffatan]

1atomicgolf JH, what I have found very difficult to master consisently in the dump...is the sitz move...when I have it...the power is immense. I get lazy in my lower body...and pull on the handle when tired. Have to always remain myself to have the club ever back and away as that motion will send it back around the corner to the ball like a sling.

[@1atomicgolf]

I find it difficult as well at the moment... to the extent I haven't really been able to apply it as yet at all really myself ... I will give it more attention when I get the twirl/winding locked in .... the Dump is very dependent on the application of the sit ... and as result I don't have the Dump on board as yet any great degree. At the moment for yourself just commit to never giving up the twirl/winding at any stage of the swing... get that right and locked in and the sit and Dump will manifest themselves accordingly . cheers Jh

[@TheJeffatan]

Been on docf program for 7-8years now...I have seasons where I have more of power and speed that's if I behave and do sitz move. Irregardless my ball striking at 50years is better and consistent for as long as it's been. Beauty about docf your misses go straight..straight as a dart. Docf..really the stock shot is a straight ball. At most very litlle baby fades or draws. I found learning the dump was made easier doing the Diff Drill you can't hit it any other way. Maybe you can show some drills for the guys on the channel to practice?

[@1atomicgolf]

Marty contacted me today and wants to catch up next week sometime so I will get him to do some drills for us in the video I do with him. cheers Jh

[@rogermoores9416]

Twirl is drag and lag. Both produce more speed.

[@1atomicgolf]

The initial Twirl 'creates' the negative Lag in the 'Backswing'.. which manifests the 'Positive' lag in the downswing.. The idea of the Twirl being applied immediately in the backswing is to crease radial inertia in the clubhead right from the start of the backswing and not have to try and produce the radial inertia as a deliberate intention in the downswing.. get the radial inertia manifesting itself in the backswing and it will automatically create the inertia in the downswing. Cheers JH

[@DC-ln8wp]

love this but isn't that face WIDE OPEN on the dump???

[@1atomicgolf]

Back dumping will initially leave the clubface open ..but because there is a very definite reaction to the backdumping of the hands.... and resultant ongoing of the clubface.. the 'reactive' response to the backdumping is that of the hands reverting into a 'trap rolling' response effect .. that being the wrists go from being cupped .. to that of being bowed forming.. That action process is the actual downswing twirl dumping action .... . The backswing is a forearm rolling ..wrist cupping process in a clockwise direction.. the downswing is just the exact opposite process in an anti clockwise direction forearm rolling and wrist cupping transformation to a 'bowing' configuration. There is a very definite 'backswing' process.. and a corresponding opposite 'downswing' action. ... as Hogan said... ' I want the clubface so open in the backswing that I can try as much as I can to 'close' it at impact.. but not be 'able' to do so because the amount of closure required will never overcome the amount of 'openness' of the clubface at the top of the backswing'.. hope that is not to descriptively confusing to understand. cheers JH .

[@Jackybug]

👍

[@tchwiss]

Does anyone on any professional tour that you know of employ this method?

[@1atomicgolf]

Steve Elkington nearly won the 2010 PGA Championship at Whistling Straights using it...Martin Ayres worked with Steve for about 6 weeks converting him over to the swing and but for a very unlucky bounce on the 71st hole he could have won the tournament... I think he still has an element of the swing in his current swing.. but Steve has had so many different changes to his swing over the years you wouldn't know what he is using these days...he was ay my practice range on Sunday and I missed him ..I would have asked him if I had talked to him. I don't know of any current prominent Tour players that use the swing...but that's not an indictment of the swings lack of capability but more an indictment of the fragile nature of Tour players with regards to any type of change outside the traditionally regarded swing mechanics. A swings capability and benefit is not based on whether a Tour player uses it..but on what it can do for you...I think it's a great swing process...it just takes some implementing effort compared to known swing type mechanics. cheers JH

[@cdunne1620]

.. didn’t Elk actually win the PGA, he didn’t nearly win it

[@1atomicgolf]

Steve did win the 1995 PGA Title.. I was referring to the 2010 Tournament ...which was when Martin Ayers was working with Steve on his swing...Steve missed the playoff by only 1 stroke . Cheers JH

[@brianschmidtberger6706]

My gosh please quit jabbering and telling me I can only learn by you talking all the time. Here’s a concept talk and teach by example.

[@1atomicgolf]

I guess the good thing about 'My' channel is that.. Its not compulsory viewing... and as I'm not looking for views because I haven't monetized the channel.. I guess I'll just keep doing my videos the way ' I ' want to do them. Cheers JH

[@jacksaintjack2844]

No, but many are visual learners. They learn by watching. You can verbalize and that is okay, but a short story that takes up 1/3 of the video is a ..zzzzzzzzzzzzz

[@1atomicgolf]

We all have our ways of doing things.. and when a a youtube channel is a 'free' one.. I think the mode of presentation is up to the presenter.. not the viewer. Again when a channel is a 'free' one like mine is.. 'no one' is 'compelled' to watch it ... If you find my presentation sleep provoking.. maybe you should only watch it just before bedtime.. cheers JH

[@abs828]

john are you doing this from the channel lock set up?

[@1atomicgolf]

You could do the Twirl and Dump from the CL address setup.. in the video it was from a conventional swing address position. Cheers JH

[@abs828]

@@1atomicgolf jh thanks for the reply. one quick thing when i practice the twirl and dump my ball flight gets like a line drive. could that be that when i dump am i possibly doing late or not hitting up or who knows?. thanks for any help.

[@jhensby1]

@@abs828 Hi Lanny, Basically if the ball is going straight out to the right the clubface is open to an in to out attack path at impact. You could just close the clubface up at address so its somehat closed at impact..that will get the ball drawing back towards the target. The other thing that could be causing the severe straight push ball flight is that the ball is to fsr back at impact and the clubface is still open st impact...just try moving the ball up in your stance gradually and see what that does. Cheers mate