TWiV 826: COVID-19 clinical update #87 with Dr. Daniel Griffin

[@msmary126]

I look forward to these updates every Saturday. My mom and I love to refer to Dr Daniel and the latest updates from twiv

[@RichardFreeberg]

My go to source for what's going on with the Covid epidemic - Dr. Griffin and Twiv. A bit too technical for me sometimes, but I get the general gist. An antidote to all the misinformation and hysteria all about...

[@rebeccamiller1741]

My sentiment exactly 👍

[@shelleyj1780]

My favorite info channel. Ps..if you’re lost with the technicalities you can still listen and use the show as a sleep aid to drift off at night.🌙⭐️Zzz

[@lesfaby8997]

As you listen more, you will pick up more.

[@khadija4801]

Yes! Exactly what I feel

[@miltz76]

It’s the only place on KZbin worth your time IMO.

[@cab5917]

Worked for and now retired from Kaiser Permanente Northwest at the Center for Health Research, (CHR). It’s a stellar group of researchers where many health issues are studied. Thank you Vincent and Daniel, I share your videos with my family and friends, many of whom are retired from CHR. Keep up the weekly videos, they help.

[@MrOzzyCam]

Thanks Vincent and Daniel for another update!

[@StanHirson]

I live in a rural community only 100 miles north of NYC. I dread this coming week when the vaccine will be available for children in our elementary schools, Many parents are already enraged by the various "mandates" being imposed without any medical rationale. The Board of Ed has had to hire deputies to keep the peace at public meetings (which have, for the sake of safety, retreated to ZOOM). Dr. Griffin has been one of my go-to sources of information but his suggestion that parents have a 45-minute conversation with their pediatrician is wildly unrealistic in a system when, if one can even get to see an MD, a 15-minute visit is the most allowed. Parents have ingested massive (CT

[@monicamolloy5105]

Well, “we” need to figure out a way to pressure The Executive Branch - including the CDC, the FDA, the NIH, to “ approve and support” (and recognize} rapid at home results. Just say’in. Thanks great program. Monica

[@NeedaNewAlias]

@Vincent: Antigent Tests in Germany are not free anymore. To attend most restaurants or venues you have to be tested, vaccinated or recovered. Tests now cost from 15 - 30 €. This is to encourage unvaccinated people. Venues can also opt to only accept vaccinated und recovered visitors. This means no distancing and indoor mask wearing requirements and full number of attendees. Children in most schools are tested 2 times a week in school. Antigen lateral flow test for home use cost around 1€. Thanks for your great work!

[@brendanmay9585]

In Germany they are not free anymore (with the goal of putting pressure on people to vaccinate) But you can buy tests at the supermarket for just over 1 euro.

[@deborahhebblethwaite1865]

And i have read Germany is increasing in cases and hospitalizations. Interesting

[@brendanmay9585]

@@deborahhebblethwaite1865 yes - that is correct. Although I am certain that reduced testing was a mistake, there are many other factors to consider that are probably driving the increase (as well). L Seasonality is likely the biggest since we are now mich more inside. Additionally, although we do have official rules in terms of being vaccinated, recovered or tested to go to restaurants, the level of enforcement is quite poor.

[@deborahfreedman333]

Thanks for the info. At a euro, they're still more affordable than the $23.99 being charged here (Walgreens).

[@brendanmay9585]

@@deborahfreedman333 no disagreement here. I really can't believe the prices in the US. I would love to understand why. It's definitely not production cost.

[@jkgermany2182]

Unfortunately Germany stopped gibing people free lateral flow tests recently ... Now numbers jumped up and people scream to reintroduce them. In our area they reduce tests in schools ,( with a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated teens) to once a week starting this Monday. Crazy.

[@kronos4993]

Much better video arrangement, back to previous, thank you

[@emilythechef]

I'm still not ready for indoor dining yet - I haven't eaten out since lockdown. I didn't know Ben Franklin's son died, to me, wise advice he gave. I feel like this was a REALLY great clinical update for some reason... I mean, they're all wonderful, and I'm grateful for all of your efforts. Time to go make a donation so you can keep doing good for this world.

[@TechnoLawyer]

Got my kids vaccinated this morning. We were first in line. One kid cried. The other yelled freedom as she got her shot.

[@rasmasyean]

30:40 Re: Vaccinated infection not making N-antibodies. Could it be like antigenic sin? IOW, the previous exposure to spike skews the immune system to respond just to that aspect and make just S-antibodies. However, in this case, that is enough to help the T-Cells complete the job of viral clearing.

[@markgivens3225]

Especially on the 10-14 year olds (as a general range). How important is the entrance and general completion of tve puberty transition in determining vaccination or not and which dosage? Is the different for girls than for boys?

[@TechnoLawyer]

10-11 only have one approved dosage, and 12-14 only have one approved dosage,and those dosage are not the same. And any doctor will say vaccinate immediately, puberty or no.

[@markgivens3225]

The question may seem to lack study. My belief is that ‘puberty’ may make significant difference in side effects, infectiousness, levels of protection and perhaps even desired technology for vaccine choice. Hope that it is being studied and results can be determined meaningfully.

[@kennyw871]

I hope we all live long enough to see how different ideologies impacted survival rates in this pandemic. I'm specifically thinking about parents that will not vaccinate their children, no matter what the CDC or pediatricans advocate. We need to understand what decisions were right and wrong based on mortality and morbidity, which makes America a great epidemological study. By now, we have enough data to make public health recommendations, but it's also true that many still refuse to follow them. It took decades for the world to innoculate/vaccinate the human population of smallpox. I fear the same might be true for the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which remains to be determined.

[@khadija4801]

Thanks to both of you 😊❤👏

[@gleeful77]

At Ralph’s pharmacy, the Binax Now tests are half the price they were at $14 for 2 rapid tests!

[@ameliablack4613]

That's was such a great Ben Franklin quote! And so appropriate at this time.

[@Kpeters]

As usual thanks guys much appreciated

[@elizabethbowman4188]

When I called my insurance about and over the counter test or a covid test period, they had no clue what I was talking about, do they not know what they are paying for.

[@maryrowe506]

Always appreciated! Thank you.

[@zinnialady5153]

Thank you

[@GIBKEL]

Love you guys….truly a public service. I know more today than I did yesterday. I have learned how to digest this information, not only out of fear that came with the everyday tally of infection/death but also because it’s just so damn interesting!

[@pepe6666]

good on ya twiv crew.

[@jillstruthers]

I'll be getting my 3 younger kiddos vaccinated next week. Thank you for the clinical updates! ❤️

[@tractorpoodle]

Superb episode, again.

[@robertmanship]

Curious.. any studies on people who are fully vaccinated and then get an infection. Any antibody data?

[@allablr5765]

I will be happy to help. I was fully vaccinated and got covid recently. Called my doctor and she wants to see me next week to check for antibodies. I will let you know.

[@maymayrays]

I was fully vaxxed and got Covid. My doctor told me to do exactly nothing. Literally said, “Do nothing.”

[@kletke88]

My trust in the CDC has dwindled with their inconsistency ect. I would like to know why Moderna hasn't tested pediatric dosing if it's more effective against variants

[@carlitaticconi6655]

I'm honestly confused by the statement that a "preponderance of evidence shows that vaccination is the safer option for kids". I listened to the entire FDA advisory meeting and it was clear that the data are insufficient to justify vaccinating any but the highest risk children at this time. Yet the media (and Daniel?) have painted a very different picture.

[@carlitaticconi6655]

@@bill9989 There must be enormous pressure on him and other Drs but it's very hard to witness. The comment that you responded to, which is posing a difficult question but is not in the least disrespectful or misinformed, was originally removed. It's hard when even the serious scientists can't/won't engage in critical analysis.

[@carlitaticconi6655]

@@bill9989 The censorship suggests strongly that the comment is true and that it is not possible to make a well-supported rebuttal so the discussion must be taken of the table.

[@maymayrays]

@@carlitaticconi6655 This is how I understood the comments issued by the FDA… how is this being overlooked by these specialists? It’s really frustrating.

[@maymayrays]

@@carlitaticconi6655 Also… am I missing something about the emerging data on the utility of masks? Personally, 11-15% protection from the average mask doesn’t bear out in risk/reward analysis 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@caygill2]

Well spent time, again.

[@Jsn0506m1]

Thanks for all the work you do keeping us up to speed.. what are you thoughts on “BMJ Investigation Covid-19: Researcher blows the whistle on data integrity issues in Pfizer’s vaccine trial”

[@gribbler1695]

Ventavia was a very small contributor to the trial. There is plenty of real-world data that show the safety and efficacy of the vaccines.

[@maymayrays]

@@gribbler1695 But they participated in the children’s trial, also.

[@michaelandreas2177]

After initial focus, the auto-focus on Daniel's camera should be switched off.

[@MicrobeTV]

I agree - he purchased a new camera, this was the first time he used it, and I didn't know it had autofocus.

[@BlakeSuperior_Beats]

I’m curious what type of immune response someone will make if they are treated early with antivirals, such as the new Merck and Pfizer pills. Is the pill going the job for the immune system, whereby the virus is eradicated too quickly for the body to create immune memory? Same goes for early use of monoclonals as well, I suppose.

[@sw8281]

Hi Vincent, would like to hear your thoughts on the paper out from Sweden regarding the spike protein impairing DNA repair in vitro. My post gets deleted if I link the paper. Thanks.

[@lesfaby8997]

Could you please provide the title and the publication. Also please mention if it is a reliable journal that is peer reviewed. Thank you.

[@sw8281]

@@lesfaby8997 published in MDPI or Multidisciplinary Digital Publishing Institute.

[@sw8281]

Published October 13th. Anytime I include the title, it gets removed?

[@sw8281]

Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair

[@sw8281]

and Inhibits V(D)J Recombination In Vitro

[@cali4ian]

In which episode was the non-human primate study discussed?

[@patriciahoke4722]

824

[@jrussell243]

Had the second moderna in May (minimal reaction) and “got the rona” 5 months later in October when news of a booster was ramping up. Age 65 with typical co-morbidities so I’m glad I had the shots, yet I’m disappointed I still got sick and I still have not had a booster

[@maymayrays]

🙋🏻‍♀️Same! I was vaxxed completely by mid April and caught it early September. I consider myself fully “boosted.” An unvaxxed friend (29 yrs old, no comorbidities) caught it at the same time as me and really suffered. I was very grateful for the vaccine, but definitely disappointed in its “leakiness”.

[@deborahhebblethwaite1865]

I am 68 as well. Had covid March 2020. Had two Moderna doses. Second shot was horrible. No booster for this gal. Thanks Vincent for your take on vaccination and boosters. Also from Ottawa with 2 months between shots. Thanks to both of you as always🇨🇦

[@BlakeSuperior_Beats]

How long did you have side effects after the second shot? My 68 year old dad felt bad for about 24 hours afterward. He had his (50 mcg) Moderna booster this week after 9 months and had no side effects.

[@deborahhebblethwaite1865]

@@BlakeSuperior_Beats 3 days of pain and delerium. Also had an event two weeks later…cannot be sure what it was…soaring BP and a pounding pain in my chest for about 8 hours. The ER monitored me all night. Inconclusive. The BP decreased and i have not since had that. I have normal BP and no history of heart issues. Feel good these days. I have since been around two cases of covid, tested negative both times.

[@toby9999]

I wouldn't consider wearing a mask to be traumatic. It's pretty easy. Yes, wearing them for long periods of time in a hospital setting might be tough but that's not the case for the majority.

[@smlorrin]

I really enjoyed this. Thank you! Just a bit of constructive criticism: I think that Vincent is typing while Daniel is speaking, and I find the sound of that (or whatever the sound is) to really interfere with my ability to follow what Daniel is saying. (I have a bit of an attention deficit disorder, so it probably wouldn't have the same effect on most others who don't have this issue.) Vincent, if the sound is from your typing, would you please mute yourself so that people like me are able to fully comprehend this important information you are sharing. Thank you again!

[@MicrobeTV]

I am not typing while he is talking.

[@MicrobeTV]

Just realized that the noise you hear is probably the stem heat clicking in the old style radiator we have in studio. This morning on the way in I asked the building engineer to turn off the heat, which he did. Should solve the problem.

[@smlorrin]

@@MicrobeTV Thank you, Vincent!

[@MMilchiker]

This information is incredibly valuable to me. I’m president of our community college district board of trustees. We have made some difficult decisions. I have quoted your data in my remarks. I’m also a biology professor so I get it. Thanks so much.

[@khhnator]

i have a question. my elderly mother went full blown on preventive measures. in fact way too much, i fear that she might be burning herself out because of all that. the two most important things, social distancing and vaccines we doing all we can, got all vaccines and if anything i think we are social distancing way too much as we on average go out once or twice per week but she is also treating the house like a clean room and the few times she has to go out is almost like she is preparing for doing a surgery when she comes back in. is all that work worth it? or is a lot of work just for nothing since we barely go out to start with?

[@hilti4632]

@dr Griffin please discuss superimmunity/hybrid immunity puzzle in one of the following sessions. Can superimmunity be obtained by vaccination followed by natural infection?!

[@hawkpfc3]

It seems to be on par w/ 3 shots. So not as good as natural infection before vaccination but still a good bit better than two shots.

[@hawkpfc3]

@@Shelmerdine745 I'm basing this on the Israeli data.

[@hawkpfc3]

@@Shelmerdine745 of course getting the virus is a lot riskier than just getting the vaccine. So of course you'd want to get the vaccine rather than the virus. That's not my point.

[@rasmasyean]

IMO...it's been real obvious that "super immunity" can only be achieved via T-Cells (if they can make the vaccine for it). A March 2021 study, iirc looked at "uninfected close contacts" which suggests T-Cells (only a small amount of them causing immune memory) which can clear the virus before infection is the "best response". Short of having some sort of rare mutation which is incompatible with the virus I suppose. There may also be a possible "middle ground threshold" where you can be exposed to a smaller amount of virus to initiate the "uninfected memory" and possibly incrementally build it over time without the need for antibodies.

[@orlinbobchev]

hey Vincent, what covid shot did you had? Pfizer or Moderna?

[@marialumena]

I got mmr at the age of one. Should i be getting a booster?

[@pambp5978]

Ask your doctor. You can get a blood test to determine your count.

[@pudanielson1]

Get a titer and see where you are, but most people have good lifelong immunity where we dont have to worry about it as much, unless parents start not vaccinating their kids again which they have.

[@pudanielson1]

@@bill9989 They said the same thing about how BCG TB vaccine helped protect Vietnamese against Covid, but they went through the shitter pretty recently. Youre right its a lot cheaper to just get a MMR vaccine, but theres a right way and wrong way if you approach it through normal methods. I Had to get a titer drawn before working at a hospital, I ended up needed the MMR shot again even though I never got any of the said diseases.

[@hawkpfc3]

If you haven't had since 1, yes, you should get a booster.

[@michelemurphy3541]

Dr. Griffin, do you have any information on SARSCOV2 vaccines getting to Afghanistan? Or any information on any Doctors abroad who are facilitating vaccines but also, medical supplies in general to Afghanistan? Thank You. If anyone has any information on Medical relief gettin to Afghanistan, that would help me. There are Doctors who are in desperate need and asking for help. Thank you.

[@pudanielson1]

Might be out of their purview, it's best to inquire the state department, and WHO.

[@michelemurphy3541]

@@pudanielson1 thank you-I am working to get a state dept contact who is privy to international medical | Dr resources and WHO contacts for same-I just thought to ask here since Dr Griffin does work abroad, maybe he has contacts.

[@patriciahoke4722]

Did he say the approved Moderna dose is 50? I thought it would be 0.25? Maybe he's talking miligrams and I'm talking milliliters?

[@deborahhebblethwaite1865]

It is a half dose.

[@MatinaG]

Moderne 3rd dose is 50mcg. Initial doses are 100mcg.

[@pudanielson1]

Pfizer is standard dose across the board, moderna is half for a booster.

[@christopherrobinson7541]

The Moderna half dose is 0.25 ml, which is 50 mcg of the active ingredient.

[@gribbler1695]

@@christopherrobinson7541 Correct, search 'Safety and Immunogenicity of a 50 μg Booster Dose of Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine'

[@jkgermany2182]

LOVE philly 😊

[@jillstruthers]

❓QUESTION❓: Are children (12-17) who are considered high risk and have recieved both doses of Phizer 6 months ago allowed to get a 3rd dose/booster? Or is the 3rd dose only for those 18+?

[@jameskyles7572]

Confused - how does the fact that maybe 1 in 1000 viral replications yields an effective virus relate t discussion of meaning of viral replication number?

[@jeroenfrankfoort1388]

The wallpaper is biased

[@Dylaniated]

new headline with everyone's favorite words: "BREAKTHROUGH INFECTIONS SHOW NATURAL IMMUNITY WANES" 😆

[@cpagego]

In terms of who transmits. I am not so sure this paper or the follow up opinions are accurate with Delta. Much more contagious. With Alpha, Beta one or two people in a household got sick with Delta, EVERYONE in the house gets sick. Great info tho. Thank you.

[@dharmacharinipasadanandi7110]

Yes, agreed. The data in Australia confirms your assertion.

[@rasmasyean]

Are you sure that's not just because NOW, everyone gets tested due to availability, while during Alpha and Beta, you pretty much avoided all healthcare facilities unless you had obvious symptoms and/or in trouble?

[@powerpuffnyc]

Vincent has a smart wife.

[@charlieintampa6769]

Another Ben Franklin fan here! Had I had a son instead of a daughter, I would have named him Ben Franklin :)

[@rogerblakely7453]

Noam is getting cranky in his old age.

[@gheorghecosmin5347]

Please help me understand the CDC study on infection vs vaccine immunity, what exactly were ttey comparing? I think the 5 times conclusion is a joke and it defies even the most basic back of the envelope type calculations that even a layman person can observe in the real world. Let me give you an example, my country - Romania has a population of 19.2m, and we currently have about 1.7m diagnosed infections, out of those less than 10k are reinfections defined by a second positive PCR test 6 months or more after the first positive one, 6 months ago we had about 1.06m diagnosed infections. The vaccination rate until very recently was about 30%. If we exclude 30% of those 1.06m and say those were also vaccinated we end up with something like 84% protection FROM INFECTION at more than 6 months, while most vaccines are bellow 60% in the same time frame. And remember, some of those people had the infection almost 18 months ago, wonder how the vaccines fare against infection in that time frame .....

[@hawkpfc3]

Natural immunity is about 80% protective against infection, 90-95% against disease. At 12-18 months it goes down somewhat but is still around 75-80% protective against disease I believe. Because of longer incubation for covid v. flu, I'd expect natural immunity to be more effective (also likely one part of why the vaccines are also more effective compared w/ influenza shots)