Two DBD veterans discuss the state of the game...

Tru3ta1ent and I had a discussion 3 years ago about a variety of topics within Dead by Daylight. Some people were very interested in seeing a repeat of that discussion covering the current state of the game in 2024, so here it is!
Our guest: @TrU3Ta1ent
0:00:00 Introduction
0:02:36 Small tweaks to DBD are good?
0:04:53 Altruism: Is it even fun?
0:08:15 Flaslights becoming easier to use
0:09:49 How perks & items affect Altruism
0:12:16 Hooks disappearing after a kill
0:14:41 Change to wiggle system
0:23:03 Playing nice = counterproductive?
0:24:21 The MMR system
0:32:11 Winstreaks: healthy or not?
0:35:19 Can Solo Survivors keep up?
0:36:44 Early days of MMR were crazy
0:39:18 Catering to casuals or veterans?
0:41:29 Disagreeing over old perks...
0:43:03 Is DBD Survivor or Killer sided?
0:51:54 Do filters give a big advantage?
0:55:18 Balance over hooks or kills?
1:17:38 Endgame: should it play a bigger role?
1:20:56 Perkless Survivor vs Killer
1:22:25 Did Decisive Strike need a buff?
1:25:26 Ultimate Weapon rework
1:28:33 Is Distortion healthy?
1:32:25 Perk nerfs, common perks & more
1:37:57 Do Fog Whisperers get listened to?
1:39:12 Skill expression being lowered?
1:45:29 Tru3 discussions & trolls
1:49:27 Ideas to improve DBD?
1:52:25 Tru3's final 1v1 idea
1:54:12 Is DBD leaving people behind?
1:55:28 DBD Experience as streamers
1:57:48 Final thoughs & farewell
Watch live: / otzdarva
Join our community: / discord

[@notOtzdarva]

**Just like with any other guest,** please keep any comments respectful! I tried my best not to interrupt or talk over my guest but sometimes I struggled because I could not see his webcam directly (my screen had background gameplay). If you find the background gameplay distracting, you can watch this entire debate on Tru3's channel without it. Just a reminder: Some people have pointed out that during this debate we often dismissed certain topics that are important to newer players and that's 100% correct. Maybe in the future we can have a different discussion that includes players with different levels of experience so we get to see more different points of view!

[@s3dwi]

[@kumaking5519]

A bit echo chamber yeah at certain points and maybe slow down your speech as well cause when you get excited, you ramble a lot and it’s hard to follow the core of the discussion

[@TandemSKITTLEZ]

@@kumaking5519u can 2x the vid or slow it just saying

[@thefakebanette3483]

Been doing similar content for a while it's a skill and a pit fall we all fall into don't feel too bad about it otz still sounds fine so far. As for the game play I just listen and don't watch for those that do it's nice to have something to look at

[@abathurx9500]

yeah I personally get tired of people constantly using the "Comp" side of things to address balance patches, buffs, nerfs, and it doesnt showcase the full extent of what the impact is. I want to see more points of view from a High, Mid-High and Mid-tier perspective and not exclusively from just the highest level of gameplay. I'll also take this quick liberty to say DBD was made as a PARTY game, and will ALWAYS BE a party game, it is NOT competitive, especially when you are already having to put in SIGNIFICANT limiters/rules in place to make it "balanced". Its like a different game entirely, so please put the points across to reflect this.

[@darks413]

socrates and plato:

[@drbritish5016]

True modern day philosopher's

[@Taryntheterrible101]

Jaee being the Diogenes of this metaphor I assume...

[@spaceman7019]

SOtzcrates and plaTru3

[@KyleMozza]

@@spaceman7019haha I love it

[@moldyshoes7872]

plato isn’t a planet anymore pal

[@Mist3rLemon]

I forgot otz was in Spain and thought he discussed DBD at 5 AM for 2 hours

[@Enchanteddy]

I almost exclusively discuss dbd at 5 am for 2 hours

[@ZorenGamer2]

No, he wasnt discussing dbd at 5 am i am also from spain i saw this live and this was stream at about 9 pm spain time

[@jogugaga7121]

@@ZorenGamer2 not true

[@ZorenGamer2]

@@jogugaga7121 unless the conversation was pre recorded which it wasn't cuz he was interacting with chat it was not 5 am in the morning

[@jogugaga7121]

@@ZorenGamer2 liar

[@armyant1242]

I really hope otz and scott do one of these But they talk about DBD for 5 minutes and then go on A 2 hour tangent about the Elden Ring DLC.

[@notOtzdarva]

That would probably be exactly what would happen 😂😂

[@memeavengerinnit69000]

@@notOtzdarvaI would love to witness that

[@thedutywarlord264]

It's not elden ring but i got destroyed by a boss in bloodborne ( he oneshot ed me even tho i have a lot of health ) 💀

[@ScottJund]

@@notOtzdarva okay what build you running for the first playthrough though. im going pure sorcery build

[@Aidi25]

​@@ScottJund Ofc the miracle build

[@w0nderlord02]

Hello True , this is otz 😊

[@pongsapaksubpokatorn6138]

According to a cosmic being from the beyond.

[@Paratha4982]

Hello Otz, this is true 😊

[@jarretrausch]

this is not otz

[@magicmc237]

No, this is Patrick

[@lunaliciousgeek]

although there's no DNA evidence

[@TrU3Ta1ent]

Good chat as always man 😀

[@Midnight_x_Sin]

Imagine if they give you back your status as a fog whisperer

[@blorg7174]

Love that suffering mechanic btw

[@v1p3r62]

@@Midnight_x_Sin Why would he even want it when they don't listen? It's just constant pressure, with no reward. Plenty of Fog Whisperers including Otz have voiced frustration towards it.

[@Midnight_x_Sin]

@@v1p3r62 I never said he would want it

[@v1p3r62]

@@Midnight_x_Sin ngl I'm super tired and for some reason I read that as you encouraging Tru3 being made a Fog Whisperer which like plenty people have said means literally nothing..

[@matttale7918]

I think a big part about altruism perks and them sucking is a splinter issue regarding how BHVR handles gimmick perks like Teamwork and Boon perks for survivors. For some reason BHVR comes up with unique ideas for perks that reward unorthodox plays and then doesn’t do anything with them. Most boon perks outside of COH and ShadowStep are situational and unreliable for you and your teammates, the Teamwork perks were dead on arrival. And I hope to god the Invocations don’t follow this pattern.

[@drfr0stii704]

The problem with buffing altruism perks rn is that altruism as a strategy is so strong by itself. The only counter to it is to tunnel, which they are buffing perks for survivors to counter.

[@OGamelon]

god why do teamwork perks only work one way, have a range limit AND a cooldown for effects which are weaker than other perks which have less restrictions

[@NameIsDoc]

Which is hilarious because a fair portion of them are actually legitimately busted in the right combination. Babysitter for example can make tunneling futile but people don't use it because it doesn't benefit them.

[@DeputyFish]

@@NameIsDoc uh babysitter doesnt really do that on like 90% of maps as you'd just see the person oh no he's 7% faster oh wait im wesker blight ext. they make in .2 seconds farther

[@colossaldonut5190]

But then you get perks like Background Player which are way overtuned for no reason.

[@s3dwi]

didn't catch the full discussion back in the stream, glad there's a timestamp

[@meowpow2800]

Oh nice! When does it start?

[@eliarice74]

Otz, please pay attention to this comment. I wanted to let you know that Lynxi, the Twins player that you recently featured on your channel, just got diagnosed with breast cancer. She’s in Norway, so healthcare is free and chances of survival should be high, but cancer is always frightening, and I was hoping you could do something for her on stream or on KZbin, just to let her know that the DbD community has her back. Thanks in advance, Otz.

[@PitBullLove216]

Just trying to help bring attention to your comment. I hope she beats it!

[@babyusagi]

@@Sunkem1Not6Hacksshe posted about it on twitter

[@notOtzdarva]

Don't worry Elia I am fully aware of her diagnosis and needless to say we're all behind her. Whatever we can do to help, we will!

[@evangingerson1271]

Respect

[@Travis-4U]

She will be fine

[@MrPuzzleCodes]

I think regarding the 4 man slug, Dead by Daylight should implement a surrendering system similar to Identity V, where if every living member of the team agrees (through a prompt appearing on the screen), and everyone is on a hook/on the ground, everybody thats still alive is automatically sacrificed and the game ends.

[@enbybunny9940]

I like that idea a lot actually

[@Piquard]

also killers should be able to surrender too imo, in Identity they can after a certain amount of time

[@spade8388]

Identity v even runs thier own tournaments which are pretty good as well

[@Meriastonishing]

The one problem with this suggestion is certain archives would get much harder, like sacrifice all survivors to the entity in 1 game, imagine 2 are dead, 1 on hook, and your carrying the last to a hook, and before you get there, they surrender and the game ends. How would archives like that be dealt with?

[@MrPuzzleCodes]

@@Meriastonishing all survivors that surrendered would be considered sacrificed

[@colossaldonut5190]

Tru3 became a lot more chill since I last watched him. Very nice to see.

[@frostwolfnoku]

Like really really? I stopped watching in the past because of the rage (even though I get that was part of the appeal)

[@vzreo]

Really felt more like Otz was walking on eggshells with how he had to talk about things in the beginning for anything that had to do with ideas for healthy play, and by the end it was just trying to talk about non controversial things that are easy to agree with to make it all seem more positive.

[@BabyJesusBro]

@@vzreoTRUE

[@LaBarata12]

Mhm, he was the content creator I watched when I first wanted to see what DBD was all about but he just developed SUCH an ego, he saw himself as SO far above everyone else, especially in the dbd community, he would just talk relentless shit to the point it was NEVER his fault whenever anything went wrong, it was those evil scummy survivors being awful people every single time. I just couldn’t take the ego anymore. Not to mention the time he ruined the red fog tournament by being a pissbaby who couldn't stand not being the center of attention.

[@grenadier4702]

He was always chill. What are you talking about? Or maybe I don't understand what "chill" means to you

[@wargutz7291]

Otz: "I'll try not to talk over you this time." Tru: "I like how-" Otz: "Oh yeah! When we talked about that last time, abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz!" Tru: "Eyup..." 😅

[@BenDover-ku5px]

This was painful. They need a delay like the news reporters on tv.

[@alexf7484]

Yeah hahaha

[@DeputyFish]

seems way more like the opposite. tru3 never let otz talk

[@crusadernikolai1996]

I’m watching thinking “man Otz sure is a chatty Cathy here lmfao” Though a big part of it is definitely lag so they think the other person has stopped

[@langelius]

Its cuz ping probably, felt like it

[@roysamuels9468]

Otz: And now to introduce our surprise guest, ScottJund.

[@raywilson641]

Can someone confirm or deny that if these two do the fusion dance, they would turn into the legendary hero TrueOtzdarva?

[@copiagueeagle]

Love the great conversation and how chill the conversation was this time around. Keep up the great content Otz!

[@boutsbyblanks]

Tru3's suffering idea would have a very positive impact. Even if you consider survivors giving up on hook, that now disadvantages survivors AND killers. And as far as Otz's thought about survivors being incentivised to leave, and not risk their own lives for others - bloodpoint (and MMR) bonus for ALL survivors, for EVERY survivor that survives. Of course if you die early and leave the lobby this can't properly be recorded, but that's a smaller issue if you ask me.

[@baddestbuilt6534]

how does a survivor giving up on hook disadvantage the killer??

[@boutsbyblanks]

@@baddestbuilt6534 I’m talking hypothetically, if Tru3’s idea was implemented. Typically, in this hypothetical, a killer gets more reward for hooking more times (causing survivors to suffer for longer), meaning these rewards would be revoked, to a degree, if survivors gave up. It’s not a mechanical, technical or strategic disadvantage though, I get that, but at least it would discourage killers from making survivors want to give up a little. You could look at adding a mechanic whereby the survivors can’t be steamrolled after the survivor gives up, too, albeit having both survivors AND killers punished for someone else’s lack of commitment to the match is obviously not the best approach. It would probably be difficult to find the solution that aids the remaining survivors while not hindering the killer for something out of their control.

[@notOtzdarva]

Biggest problem about any big change to the game's core is that we know BHVR would need 1 or 2 years to prototype and implement anything, even assuming that everything else was smooth. I don't think they'll ever bother to change the general gameplay loop.

[@queercandy1]

it would also make killing more interesting. because in this mechanic, a kill could cause suffering by draining the hope of the other survivors. however, if a survivor dies too early, that could just cut out a source of suffering for the killer to gain. so it's no longer a binary choice to always kill when you can. and it would also make moris more than just a cosmetic thing

[@boutsbyblanks]

@@queercandy1 some interesting points for sure

[@bountifulbread9737]

Thank you otz i was just forced for a family roadtrip this will cover most of it ❤️🙏

[@notOtzdarva]

Safe travels!

[@sxperiorluis]

bro 😭😭

[@hookairs]

Your family won't be alive forever. Enjoy this time you have with them. I didn't, and now I miss them terribly.

[@finnyb0i1]

Bro I'm on a 2 hour trip to a funeral rn 😭

[@lastleft5809]

We love long videos here 😂🎉

[@michellerahe4853]

This video is up earlier then usual. Also I love these types of videos because the discussions are civil agreements and disagreement which alot of the community doesn't take too lightly lol. Alot of people don't wanna hear both sides

[@PlagueOfGripes]

Kind of hard to understand a lot of the discussion at times, but I'll add one thing: when veterans with 10k, 20k, etc hours in the game talk about rebalancing, they're almost always talking about their personal experience with the top 5% of the playerbase. Many changes you could make that would make the game 'healthier' for 'real' gameplay would make things absolute hell for new players and even the majority of casual players. And that's where most of BHVR's money comes from.

[@Exotac]

As some who started in 2022, played the game for about a year and a half or so (and stopped playing normally during the genkick meta because it just stopped being fun), things are already absolute hell for new players and the majority of casual players to the point its impossible that any changes could make it any worse to a noticeable degree. Combine the grind with the $ cost of having to buy licenses if you don't want to wait potentially a year or more for those perks to pop back into the shop, along with having to learn the ever-growing pool of perks and how to counter all of them separately (or at least, the ones you are going to see often). But almost all of these topics don't apply exclusively to the top 5%. Not even close. The majority of suggestions that both Otz and especially Tru3 bring up, are issues that you start to notice well before you get anywhere near five digit hours (Am personally sitting at around 400). If you're the kind of person who recognizes game design patterns either via indie experience or just in general, you start to notice them before you even hit 200 in some cases. The problems that the veterans deal with in DBD trickle down into the casual/newbie side of the game A LOT more than people realize, in no small part because of how botched the implementation of SBMMR is and how it can be really easy to get pushed up in ranking and almost impossible to be dropped back down when you really should be.

[@Professorjake417]

this is the issue for sure. that being said, the top 5% is usually the most vocal so the game becomes "balanced" around them. (this is the same in alot of games)

[@LuckyOuijaBoy17]

Agree 100%

[@EdgieAlias]

Uh no? Balance means less steam rolls, not more.

[@numbdigger9552]

@@Professorjake417 and that's how it SHOULD be. If a game is balanced around "high level" gameplay, the huge upshot is the fact that eventually the noobs will also get good and enjoy the balance, whilst in a game balanced around new players, the veterans quit because once they're good, they will never be noobs again so they are essentially at a dead end. Skill is a one-way road so games should ALWAYS be balanced around top-level play.

[@jackbennett2269]

Lol the “sorry go ahead” when he mumbled something from his water, made me howl

[@dododu3412]

So glad to see a second iteration of the discussion you had a while ago. I trully hope to see more of those discussions. DBD podcast prehaps ? Could be fun to have 3 or 4 people throw ideas or opinions and hash them out. Trully think True and Otz are the best base for such a project.

[@UltraJBB]

as long as true isn’t featured

[@6powersofM]

I would listen to Otzdarva podcasts every week

[@GaslightingWomen]

When I started playing DBD, I watched him to learn. All he would do is complain all the time about how survivors are too strong. It's been 4 or 5 years and he still does the same. That's why I watch Otz

[@jt2249]

I enjoyed this immensely, even if I disagreed with some of the points made. I truly hope we see more round-table honest, open discussion content like this in the future.

[@Jibash]

Just what i need for my weekend grinding session in Warframe. Thank you Otz. Love ya

[@kinroga]

Otz isn't the best player but actually he is

[@EvilPineappl]

Regarding that Suffering mechanic. Otz suggests that people would just leave and not try to save people cuz they risk more suffering. But simply making a survivor death be worth a chunk of Suffering. So you if you can get one more escape in exchange for only one more hook, its worth it.

[@spence818]

Great discussion. It was interesting hearing about tru3’s suffering idea, I think it would make the game overall less frustrating.

[@AllOfARCH]

On the topic of slugging and giving the survivors a way to move on to the next match quicker when being bled out, I saw a while back Scott Jund came up with a concept where survivors on the ground can press a button to greatly accelerate their bleed out timer while giving them a small increase to their crawl speed. This would give a way for survivors to go next match faster and not wait for 4 minutes, but it would also give the mechanic a bit of utility. Other conditions could be added on if needed, such as it not working in end game collapse, or not working in the exit gate themselves.

[@dandantsm6560]

That actually sounds really good and creative!! It's also useful to try and avoid the killer BMing next to you or on top of you!

[@MonkeyMan.01]

Dbd are like feet pics good somtimes but crusty other times

[@circiumarurares4485]

Perfect comparasion

[@RonJeremy514]

It's also like d- and v- pics. Good sometime but crusty other times. Try not to puke.

[@Knower2483]

Bro has experience 💀

[@drfr0stii704]

@@RonJeremy514bro what?

[@diothethotslayer1451]

What

[@Vampyreal]

Another banging video to get me through the last few hours of work. Let's go! Much love, Otz! Stay awesome!

[@nlgilly]

The only thing I got from this discussion is that True REALLY hates survivors

[@morgomirwd]

I love these talks because of how real they are. No smoke and mirrors, just pure honesty and listening while respecting eachother.

[@UltraJBB]

He only “respects” otz because otz is a good person and instead of telling him how ridiculous he sounds he just sugarcoats it.

[@morgomirwd]

@@UltraJBB ??? im not quite sure what you are trying to imply here.

[@UltraJBB]

@@morgomirwd he’ll only talk to otz because otz is going to deal with his ignorance

[@morgomirwd]

@@UltraJBB True isnt ignorant though. Hes quite knowledgeable. Not liking or agreeing with his opinion is one thing, but that doesnt make him ignorant.

[@UltraJBB]

@@morgomirwd he’s extremely ignorant. He doesn’t care about anyone’s opinions or perspectives on the game. He constantly bad mouthes survivors and their tactics. He’s a tower of ignorance and the only people that watch him are other ignorant people who want to win every single game they play. He’s not a bad guy but he’s extremely ignorant and filled with ego.

[@ToughCanadian]

I really love this long form video. So much entertainment value. Thanks you two

[@HolyBingus]

In regards to hooks disappearing on kills , I'm glad Haddonfield is getting reworked. I played Haddonfield recently, and I had no hooks in one corner of the map. Once I killed someone and used the closest hook in the middle of the street, a quarter of the map was a hook deadzone. People realised this and ended up running into the corner, meaning I had no choice but to slug for any kills.

[@NameIsDoc]

Yeah survivors exploit stuff like that a lot.

[@sapphirespade8801]

It's different from map to map. Some maps there aren't any hooks anywhere near each other but other maps there's two hooks less then ten feet away from each other. The hook spread in this game is garbage.

[@HolyBingus]

@@sapphirespade8801 Actually true. So many maps have them too close as well.

[@javondrake3660]

Don’t get me started on those house windows 💀💀 completely broken

[@gertjan5368]

Thats why i bring ebony memento mori 80% all the time. I dont want to be reliant on hooks

[@twinkamikaze3524]

I think for future discussions having a bulleted list of topics for both people to discuss would help. There were a lot of conversations where it would try to be led to one topic and bleed into another. If each person had a list of topics like we're going to discuss altruism first it would lead the conversation. Food for thought on the wiggle system. They've since been trying to add bonus objectives to specific parts of the map. Scourge hooks, Basement perks, Boon and HEX totems. I believe they wanted to make it harder for killers to get reliable uses out of the basement, scourge hooks, and forcing survivors to specific areas. While I don't think the new system is perfect it does prevent a killer forcing basement or other difficult positions for survivors. Now I'd like to see that shift in balance of power back to the killer and limit how reliably a survivor can save another. ex. flashlight, sabo. I agree with True. It feels like killer gets punished for doing what they are supposed to do. Hoping that will change.

[@samshudt2527]

survivors get punished for doing what they’re supposed to do as well, that’s just how the game works. over half of the good killer perks (which is almost all of them) punish survivors for being altruistic, doing gens during opportune moments, or even running away from the killer. i can’t think of anything else you would ever do as a survivor than those three objectives bc you really don’t have time for a slip up one time.

[@Gelwain]

I love the collabs with other creators! Keep them coming!

[@HeadlessMetal]

This is awesome! I was watching Tru3 actual years before b4 seeing Otz. Now seeing them together is just great! Love them both

[@Team_BaM]

If the "Suffering" mechanic Tru3 was talking about were implemented, you could have it stop counting when the gates become powered. At that point, you could have bonuses and penalties based on the amount of suffering done. I would also implement a fifth perk slot just for perks that only do stuff during the collapse for both sides.

[@f3bq163]

Amazing ideas. I'd love a fifth perk slot for perks like no one left behind. For killer side there's lack of perks that work only during the collapse, I guess bloodwarden? I dunno about any other perk.

[@PuellaMagiHomuraAkemi]

@@f3bq163 There are two that block the exit gates and No One Escapes Death Hex ofc, otherwise...I think Wesker has a perk about it? But its not good xD

[@guala6697]

Remember me, terminus, no way out, blood warden, noone escapes death, rancor​@@f3bq163

[@lapisinfernalis9052]

Also a DBD veteran here (7k hrs since 09/2018). - Being nice->toxic: Playing nice often results in the survivors buttdancing in the exit gate in the end, because they feel that they were "insane". I still play more nicely (no tunneling from the beginning), but if someone is toxic, they will get what they serve. I will still capitalise on mistakes or situations (like them unhooking right next to me before I could leave, or bodyblocking after getting unhooked) because I am not dumb. - MMR: My main frustration with MMR is that it only counts escapes and kills. As someone who usually does a lot, loops the killer a ton only to die in the end while the others escape, the game always thinks I am bad, because I don't escape. Which results in the game matching me with bad teammates, making SoloQ miserable (which is why I only play at least Duo nowadays.) - "bad teammates": I think the 10s basekit BT are bad, because most survivors don't know how to safely do a save anymore. I see so many farms and unhooks when I'm still near, so that I usually don't have another choice but to tunnel. That has to get better again, because it loses you games. I also limit myself a bit. I still want to do well, but I don't really care about "winning" anymore. My favourite build has Object in it for 2 years and I love it, even though it betrays me in situations I don't want. - Filters: I use slight filters to help me see on Autoheaven (only a bit of gamma and a tiny bit of more saturation). I have tried all in-game options, but nothing really helped. I don't know if it's my eyes or my monitor, but I can't see sh*t on these maps. Claudette? Invisible. Hag, GF, Pig? Invisible. All other survivors/Killers with remotely "dark" clothing? Invisible. It's very frustrating to get called a cheater for using allowed stuff which only negates a disadvantage you have. - Hooks vs Kills: I think the game should make it more effective to get 12 hooks ideally, which would also make tunneling less attractive if done right (i.e. by not removing a hookstate if that survivor is hooked in sucsession. you could still hook them to get pressure, but they are still on their first hook). It is more skillfull to get a 4k without tunneling and with 12 hooks (as it is more difficult), than getting a 4k with tunneling and camping. Hooks should count towards MMR as well and not only kills. (RIP me who gets 8 hooks and then the last gen pops and they get adrenaline...) As a scientist, I can only say that bad data gives bad results. So improving data to make the game better is a good idea. - DS: The new animation only makes it about 4s now instead of 5s, but we don't know if this is going to stay like this. I don't know if I like the change or not. In the past I basically had to use DS, because there was no way out of the basement if you did not have SB or the unhooker had no BT (which is still the case btw, but not as bad). I am glad it is still inactive during EGC, which was THE most op sh*t about that perk imo. I got so many free escapes with it, it's insane. But I do think that a little higher stun duration is good as killers will think twice again before tunneling you. That being said, this might bring back the DS/UB meta we had before the nerf now with the addition of Plottwist. In the past this never bothered me, but with Plottwist, this will probably get spicy. -Ultimate Weapon: "Isn't it the whole point of survivor being chased?" That depends on the MMR and playstyle of the survivor. I like to do everything (also the reason why I favour Object to Distortion), but 2 of my friends are more the stealthy type and use Distortion. One of them also Calm Spirit because he's not good at looping. For people like him, getting chased, means to be dead first. He's also a more casual player. I think the main frustration with UW for him was that he cannot hide or react to counter the perk. For BBQ you can go into a locker, for PR/DMS you let go of the gen before the hook etc. For UW you have to GUESS when the killer can activate it and there is no reaction time because you scream at the moment you enter the TR. Initially you could not even hide in a locker to avoid it. UW also helps to proxy camp a LOT, especially after the Grim Embrace buff, because killers had a cue when they left the "camping circle" of 16m. They would just sit there with UW active and nobody could go for the save because you would scream the second you got too close. My main problem with the perk was (and still is) that you could scream at 29s of its activation and be still blind for 30s only to scream again, because the cd was already over. It was very annoying. I think they only needed to make the cd longer and make the perlk similar like DMS, where the max value is 30s, but it is shorter if you enter the TR later. BTW: You still get blinded. - Distortion: Eh..... I think it is unhealthy for ONE reason: Hiding yourself makes the other survivors (who don't have the perk) more of a target. I notice that quite often in my group with 2 Distortion players. They both have 0 hooks while the random and me both have 2. I think the perk should only start with 1 token (for the initial Lethal Pursuer or other Aura reading and to give the kilelr the chance to notice it) and every 15s (or 20s) in chase you recover 1 token up to 3 tokens max. This way players have to interact with the killer to get a bit of stealth in return. I made a whole post about Distortion and Object being different sides of the same coin (pros and cons etc as well) in the forum, so if you would like the link, I can provide it to you. -Adrenaline: I already saw survivors 99ing gens, then unhook and then finish it to give the person on the hook adrenaline. I think it would have been better to make it a heal over time like the syringe but a bit faster and then don't give the sprint boost unless you heal up from the ground or are healthy. -Skill expression: Since they removed Sky Billy and Hug-tech, Lightburn other stuff? Yeah. I just hope Wesker gets spared this nonsense. Have a nice day :D

[@muysli.y1855]

DS Animation is longer so correctly its 3.6s instead of 2s (+1,6s)

[@Preparationh6]

Crazy collab love this! Been watching you both since the start of this game!!❤❤ also otz you kept talking over him still 😂

[@holdthisforme8235]

1:18:30 that was an amazing point from Otz with regards to actually rewarding hooking. That little very realistic change alone could be a HUGE step forward for healthier gameplay. Not only would this incentivise healthier gameplay it would also make endgame more intense and actually fun rather than oh last gen popped guess imma settle for one guy and camp him on hook. The killer would actually continue and make the whole experience more risky and intense on both sides. This can maybe be balanced by still having anti camp feature in end game too depending on how strong they make Otzs original idea.

[@stephenrea4388]

Otz, please do this yearly 🙏 don’t wanna wait till 2027 for the next discussion

[@ArchDethKreation]

Them taking away depip is a good thing. I work a lot. So one night I get a bunch of good games and am 1 pip away from getting next rank then the very next day I get killers that tunnel me out every match or my teamate and it takes away all my hard work from the day before. Thats bullshit I dont have time to play all the time like some people

[@strawberin0]

Why do you even care? The rank means nothing. Try playing the game for fun instead maybe, or if you want a tangible goal that rewards you something I recommend doing the battle pass.

[@ssgbobbarnes]

@@strawberin0go away

[@ArchDethKreation]

@@strawberin0 tf? Its for the bp obviously. Why do you care that I care? bizarre

[@Jonn0_]

@@strawberin0 ranks are great, earning 2 million bloodpoints each month just for.. playing well

[@WutTheDeuceGaming]

"the next day I get killers that tunnel every game..." No the fuck you don't. That's a bold faced lie. If you were tunneled that much, that often, you'd have stopped playing a long time ago.

[@M4D3Y3BR0WS]

OOOOOOOOOOTZ! please play and upload more content with tru3! i really enjoy watching you guys, but I always miss his lifestream.

[@fredijaklewicz3164]

We need more videos like this, keep up good work

[@MisterRagdoll]

My defense for current wiggle system is that it actually rewards you for sabo and hook body blocking. Before you could drop the survivor, chase someone else for a brief moment and get back to downed survivor. Now you have to make a choise will you risk hooking with chanse of escape or will you change chase target and most likely let your first target get healed.

[@WutTheDeuceGaming]

You missed the part why they have a problem with it. It's because the games' hook spread on certain maps are horrible. That last sentence you typed, on certain maps there is no winning for a killer because you cannot hook and are forced to drop them. It's low risk, high reward for survivors when the hook the killer has is the only one in the area they can reach. That's the issue.

[@MisterRagdoll]

@@WutTheDeuceGaming true but I would argue that is map design issue, not wiggle issue. By making wiggle regress you would remove good altruistic plays from people in favor of few spesific map related hook issues

[@HexyBoooty]

@@WutTheDeuceGaming yeah but I used to run that build all the time and honestly most of the maps are fine. There’s only a few maps where it’s bad.🤷‍♀️

[@HexyBoooty]

@@WutTheDeuceGaming and the whole point of sabotaging is so that that person can get off of that killers shoulders otherwise, if there is another hook right nearby what the fuck is the point in sabotaging then?

[@dandantsm6560]

​@@WutTheDeuceGamingi almost NEVER see a killer having problems with hooks, no joke. They very very VERY often pass by close hooks and go for far away ones and STILL get it, they go for one hook, it gets sabotaged, then they just turn and go to another one quickly and get it. It's what i see happening all the time, they barely ever have a problem with hooks, and that's what i see in my matches, so to me that just a "very few maps" problem easily solved by hooks not being random and instead having multiple premade variations for each map that are calculated.

[@gigure9411]

On the topic of filters, I personally use a reshade that just makes the game brighter because like the game is too dark for me personally so it's nice being able to see better and like personally I shy away from like the "optimal" filters because like I use reshade to make the game look as nice as I believe it should look and I think behaviour really need to look into doing things like making their game brighter or similar features in order to just make the game feel nicer for your average player without the need for third party software like reshade.

[@SwirlyDerp]

I love how respectful of eachother you are even when disagreeing!! I hate watching debates that are one sided or have an undertone of dislike between the two parties. Love the constructive conversation! More in the future would be great ❤❤

[@Riley1393]

Im rewatching this a second time cause these two have very good voices to listen to in the background

[@TheGamingTurtle1253]

Hey Otz an unrelated question but is there a VOD of your first Bloodborne playthrough somewhere?

[@notOtzdarva]

No, but you can find some old videos about Bloodborne on both of my channels!

[@TheGamingTurtle1253]

@@notOtzdarva alright that’s unfortunate, but thanks for answering

[@Bruh-ev4pl]

@@notOtzdarva do you have any plans on playing bloodborne again were it to be released on PC?

[@Jugglets]

Love this kind of content 💪

[@Midnight_x_Sin]

Ayeeeeee all the streamers are in this chat

[@averynewtown2782]

I'm excited to see this. I love true and otz and he used to be one of my favorite fighting game players. Hoping it's a good time for everybody

[@paulhamernick9185]

I enjoy their conversations about DBD. I'm glad they decided to do this again. Both had good points.

[@Paolini_18]

TRUE !!! Havent seen the lad in ages

[@Chloe-wj9ck]

The only thing about these conversations is they are veryyyyyyy geared toward high level players with thousands of hours. I can’t remember the last time that I ran across FTP+buckle up. So they are talking about nerfing some of the only strong survivor perks because of niche top 10% survivors. These people forget what it’s like to play with normal players and what normal DBD players need against these strong killers.

[@HexyBoooty]

exactly that’s what I was thinking I’m like they’re acting like these are comp teams, or like the top of the top when in average, DBD is not like that

[@BenDover-ku5px]

So, it’s strong but it’s only played in high levels. What would nerfing it do to the general playerbase then? Would they even care if nobody uses it? Because the combo IS too strong. They aren’t the only 2 strong perks survivors can use.

[@Aftershk]

I would honestly love to have regular discussions like this, especially regarding upcoming content changes, where they have both extremely experienced players, AND newer/more casual players. You could even use it as a way of highlighting newer/up-and-coming content creators and lifting up the newer people by introducing your audience to them, which is a way of giving back to the community.

[@demifolk8940]

isnt this more of an issue with the game and how grindy it is? in a normal game, this wouldn’t even be a problem. imagine playing league or another moba and you cant build a very meta item because you haven’t spent 5+ hours and possibly money to unlock it for your other characters. its really fucking stupid, and dbd was even more miserable before they drastically reduced the grind you had to do. i stopped playing for about 1-2 years and im so behind when i was basically maxed out on having every perk for survivors and 80% of the killer perks. now im genuinely dejected from even grinding back up to where i was. it would actually take hundreds of hours

[@Dame-3]

I think you’re just a low tier player no disrespect but I’m not a “comp” player but I mainly go against this stuff especially with swf

[@Brunjo02]

This needs to be a series, i feel like im watching a professional podcast. It would be cool to see otz talk about this stuff with other creators

[@ngaydos]

I have some opinions about the discussion but honestly my biggest takeaway is how good of a host/co-discusser Otz is. Tech and communication issues aside, the consistent engagement and encouragement to explore ideas and the constant willingness to really engage with things that Otz may not agree with is just wonderful to me and really elevates the video.

[@owenwilliams3006]

20:17 There have been so many games where I wish there was an option to 'unalive' on the ground, purely because I was being slugged while the killer forced a 4K. Maybe if there was an option if only one survivor is standing, and they're not in a chase, that you can rapidly accelerate your bleedout, because on occasion you do get those sweaty killers who don't want the hatch to spawn. (Ironically, in two recent cases, it let me crawl to the hatch and escape instead). Slugging is a strategy that killers do sometimes need to employ, such as to prioritize other targets better, or due to survivors being set up with a multi-layered rescue plan. The issue comes when Killers use slugging for toxic behavior, notably the refusal to allow hatch to spawn, or to BM forcing said player to wait four minutes to bleedout before getting on to the next match.

[@dandantsm6560]

It's also really bad when they try to bypass the hook system by abusing the bleedout's faulty design. That's another problem with slugging and it's unbelievable to me to call it a valid tactic.

[@michals2205]

I don't think I agree with refusing to let the hatch spawn to be a toxic behaviour. When I load into the game my goal is to kill 4 people and sometimes I have to slug someone for a minute while looking for the last survivor. I would just really like to know what's so bad about that?

[@MuchButLess]

I think its pretty difficult maybe even impossible to make sure everything has a "counterplay" because no matter what it would always favor one side, for example when tru3talent and Otz were talking about the wiggle bar going back to the old system which Tru3 seemed to like more than the new one, yes it makes it where killers can counter the hook sabo but then what can survivors realistically do after thatt? You already have 2 survivors not doing anything since one is on the killers shoulders and the other has to sabo the hook so if the killer was able to put them down and reset the wiggle timer then all the killer has to do is drop, go hit the other survivor and possibly even down them and then go back to the first slugged survivor. Plus there's a bunch of other situations that could happen but realistically no matter what one side is gonna fail.

[@DeputyFish]

tru3 wants the OLD wiggle like the A D A D A D A one?

[@MuchButLess]

@@DeputyFish no he just wants the wiggle meter to regress if you drop a survivor. Just how it used to be.

[@DeputyFish]

@@MuchButLess THEY GOT RID OF THAT

[@MuchButLess]

@@DeputyFish haha yeah

[@SaveMeXenu]

It's because Tru3 isn't interested in survivors having counterplay to what killers can do, he's interested in killers having counterplay to what survivors can do. He doesn't care what options the other side has, he only cares what options HE has. He has always been this way.

[@phlojem285]

I remember listening to the first half of this live, but fell asleep because it started at 2am for me

[@ronanfloyd7359]

shout out to you both, love these yapping sessions

[@rubenfeijoolopez8572]

Compared to it's past self, it is, arguably, in the best state it has ever been. Compared to other games I play, it falls short in too many aspects. And I've seen dev teams who sometimes fuck up, but never one as disconnected from reality. It is like a Mario Party game taken as competitively as CS, with a AAA monetization, AA price tag, and no polish. And the comunity... this game's comunity is something I've never seen before, I don't know if it is die to the avarage age of it's playerbase, it being asymetrical, or both, but it is one of worst, with few exceptions, I've ever been a part of.

[@abubaytnighan6480]

No way, it’s not one of the worse communities. People rarely flame each other in end game chat because they’ll get banned and it could possibly result in perma ban

[@rubenfeijoolopez8572]

​@@abubaytnighan6480People constantly do that, while not using certain words becouse they are censored/bannable. But the ammount of complaining/bad sports/animosity towards others is ridiculously much more common than, not just being nice and saying gg, but saying nothing. I've never been part of a cominity where the post-game chat being "gg wp" or "broken game why did you use that killer/perk/addon you must be a horrible person, etc. My teamates are apes/troglodites. Swf is broke tbey should remove it, etc.", depends on wether that individual has "won" the match or not. And besides all that, have you ever been to DBD's subreddit ?

[@DeputyFish]

you are way lost lol. this games community isnt bad compared to literally any other game you'd never of made it back in mw2 lobbies man

[@abubaytnighan6480]

@@DeputyFish dbd community is full of angels compared to Overwatch 2

[@DeputyFish]

@@abubaytnighan6480 100%

[@abyssal_mk]

Who else learned about TrU3Ta1ent through his MKX streams in 2015? 👀

[@ZombieaidZ]

He played mkx? Who did he main?

[@abyssal_mk]

@@ZombieaidZ Ermac. Master of Souls, believe. It has been like a decade. Lmao

[@2BReckonedWith]

I watched him during his Dark Souls 2 years. That was 2014

[@ZombieaidZ]

@@abyssal_mk love ermac, was my favorite in mk9. I preferred kotal Kahn and Ferra/tor in mkx

[@mothermushroom_]

@@2BReckonedWith same brother i really wished he would participate in a return to drangleic event one of these days

[@fellipecarvalho1479]

Maybe make it so that when the survivor is dropped next to a hook that is up his wiggle bar wont regress, but if he is dropped near a broken hook his wiggle bar starts regressing, this counters the crazy saboplay but makes it so the killer doesnt have to wait to pickup after dropping, he either hooks or gives up and slugs which he would and could do anyways.

[@critik_l]

I’ll have to check to see if I still have the video, but I remember a game on Gideon a few months ago where I had two hooks on the bottom floor in opposite corners. One hook was below the meat chute and the other was in the corner near the bathroom and basement.

[@akwarddino3884]

I don’t think I agreed with a single one of Tru3’s takes but it was a fun listen. Thanks for a good video!

[@corrinfoss4822]

He wants the game to be significantly more killer sided. Every suggestion he wanted would only benefit killers.

[@veladanjbakht140]

​@corrinfoss4822 let me guess... survivor main

[@megawaffle612]

⁠@@corrinfoss4822True himself even said he’s “competitive” and primarily views this game from the top down. Otz is more neutral and tries to see both sides (low level and high). Problem is you will never have both in perfect balance especially with how many systems are in this game. I definitely think BHVR removing depips is a major sign they are taking DBD more casual vs competitive. You’re always going to have this friction since both casual and competitive players are all forced into the same pool of players.

[@f3bq163]

@@megawaffle612 Adding a comp mode would definitely help with the health of this game. But the question is how would a comp mode work and how would it look like? Because if it was just something like perkless dbd, it would need a hella amount of bloodpoints increase to make it worth playing. Also a comp mode should 100% have only the "balanced" maps like azarov or macmillian. No eyries, GoJ, midwich or the Game. Definietly Azarov and macmillian as only maps imho, maybe singularity map too since it's pretty balanced.

[@battypayload8536]

@@corrinfoss4822He wants it to be balanced for killer because it’s survivor sided at the top. His suggestions don’t only benefit killers but survivor gameplay as well. He wants less slugging, tunneling and camping but the game pushes that for the win condition since it’s the most efficient way to kill. He literally explains it in this video

[@BaronSterling]

I think an interesting change to Distortion would be to make it based on the number of seconds your aura is read rather than the number of instances your aura is read. That way stronger perks with longer lasting aura reading burns through Distortion's charges more than weaker, briefer perks.

[@corrinfoss4822]

No. Killers have every aura reading perk and add on, plus it seems they keep getting more with every killer. Survivors should be allowed one perk that provides automatic protection against that. You wanna bring aura reading, you're gonna risk survivors having distortion and you still not being able to see them.

[@BaronSterling]

@@corrinfoss4822 Your reply has literally nothing to do with what I said. Reread the comment you were responding to and realize how none of it contradicts anything you said.

[@corrinfoss4822]

@BaronSterling never. Distortion is fine as it is and any change to it is stupid and completely unnecessary.

[@SGEnjoyer]

@@corrinfoss4822 least biased DBD player

[@mckookie2967]

Lmao it should recharge in chase so it doesn't help rats, anyone decent at the game has said this. ​@@corrinfoss4822

[@Whatever-tu7ue]

I am loving Pyramid Head. I have climbed to silver 3 in 4 hours and I have been playing for almost 6 days total. Iridescent 3 for survivor. Lots of fun and your videos really help me get better.

[@MrWoody895]

Random thought in regards to slugging. What if the wiggle bar regresses only if a survivor on the floor starts healing. So tye closer they are to pickup the bar is mostly empty. Flipflop cancels that out to keep it relevant to what it does

[@stevennicgorski1657]

Possible idea for the wiggle progress issue. How about wiggle progress can regress as you progress self pick-up? That way, survivors have to choose between wiggling off or getting easily picked up

[@zaer-ezart]

But what if you're playing with potato survivors? You start recovering thinking they're gonna pick you up, then you see claudette crouch walking from the other side of the map to save sprint burst and the killer comes back and picks you up. You would've escaped but now you're doomed

[@UltraJBB]

@@zaer-ezartthat’s a very specific and extremely situational scenario but I get what you mean.

[@Hadohs]

Please invite more guests to these discussions in the future! I think a panel of 4-5 people would be more constructive and would offer more diverse perspectives. It would've been cool to see people like Hens, ScottJund, etc. involved in this discussion.

[@llGreyll.]

That would just breed hostility and lead to arguments alongside too many people talking at the same time and over each other. That kind of content is best left for entertainment and not genuinely constructive content.

[@Hadohs]

@@llGreyll. Why would it breed hostility? People have discussion panels on important topics all the time without any hostility.

[@llGreyll.]

@@Hadohs Yes that does occur often, but not in hyper toxic communities like DBD. Some people you listed have high disdain for each other. Last time I checked Jund does not like Tru3 in any way shape or form. Not to mention it isn’t necessarily for this discussion. Bringing in more people is just redundant. The community already universally agrees on most things, unless you only play killer or only play survivor, then heavy bias comes into play. However I firmly believe and stand by, survivors being extremely toxic on average compared to the avenge of toxic encounters with killers. I can play 50 killer games and over 30 have incredibly toxic survivors or toxic swf. Yet I can play 100 survivors games and only have maybe 20 toxic killers and that’s being generous. I think DBD’s issue is a lot more of a toxic community thing in comparison to balance.

[@Hadohs]

@@llGreyll. They could have one person act as a moderator, if it was truly needed but I don't think it would be a problem. Not having a discussion that represents all sides & perspectives is pointless and just serves as an echo chamber. It's better to have more voices so that we can hear all perspectives fleshed out.

[@llGreyll.]

@@Hadohs I don’t think this was at all close to the example you gave at the end. I have no quarrel with multiple opposing opinions. I believe arguments can be healthy if constructive. We’ll just have to agree to disagree. I don’t disagree nor agree with everything you said as I’m sure you probably feel the same. Have a wonderful week

[@user-hr9kt7yn9i]

One thing I never see spoken about is exit gates, 99ing exit gates feels so so strong imo. they should regress if not touched for a while, being able to stall and 1 tick a gate feels so harsh sometimes.

[@midnightblackroses]

This was an interesting discussion to listen to. Tru3's idea on a suffering mechanic would fit with the lore and might solve some of the issues dbd suffers with.

[@LLynx]

Counter to slugging/bleedout would be the opposite of the hookcamping mechanic. The further the killer is away from you chasing other survivors (lets say 24 meters), the more the wigglemeter would fill up until the killer picks you up again. As soon as the killer dropped you, your wiggle meter would then need to regress again though. You could even argue that after a certain amount of time, youd be able to up yourself, once that "the killer is far away and just left me" condition would be finished (perhaps even combine that with "the killer chases another survivor for x amount of time until you may get up). But the entire times of regeneration and wiggling et al would need to become altered. But it would solve the problem of slugging as well as get rid of the lack of counterplay against sabo. It would certainly buff survivor interaction, but also allow counterplay from the killers. It truely is a complicated dilemma -> because that would encourage camping downed survivors! AAAAH

[@starfire9552]

Nice, now in addition to survirors trying to throw a pallet on your head (which has no counterplay if they have background player), the slugs are going to be able to get up by themselves. Doesn’t it sound a bit rediculous to you?

[@veladanjbakht140]

​@starfire9552 for survivors nothing is ridiculous if is on their favor ... having full reloaded shotgun in lockers to kill the killer ? Hell yeah why not ? Giving a poor hilBilly a small buff?? Noooooooo to op trash killer nerf nerf nerf ...

[@boutsbyblanks]

I can't blame Tru3 for his outward resentment towards the devs for their ignorance to streamers and other players' opinions, but it's a real shame that that incentivises the dev's to not listen to him even more. Inevitably, they won't want to gratify Tru3 by running with his ideas.

[@Robotofdoom5965]

I love these style of videos Otz ! I try and watch and study a lot of what content you put out as well as others ! But, I think maybe also asking some of the lesser hour players could be good for topics like this ? I have almost 2K hours and I feel, the biggest issue with the game is yeah tunneling. And I’ve made an argument on my streams is, how do survivors counter it ? Bring OTR ( no killer just hits and waits it out ) Bring DS, ( cause now’s it’s getting a buff ) It just becomes IMO, a situation where that survivor just looses and gets 0 value from the game, 0 fun. And now the killer has the advantage. IMO, and I know this is gonna cause some possible hate towards me, 1 if killers continue to play like ( tunneling, slugging and proxy camping ) OTR will be the new BT, and I called this last rank reset, DS is gonna become a major perk with its rework. 2 if a killer does tunnel, and ONLY that 2 survivor. Ignored all others and keeps going for one person, then a gen automatically pops. ( why ? Cause it immediately puts the survivors in a difficult position ( based on what happened during the tunnel process ) now it becomes a more balanced game, let’s say 2 gens popped during that and now, a 3rd automatically does, because most likely, the killer will tunnel again. Just to at least get 2 kills. Yes I know a lot of the stuff I said might be very controversial and not make a whole lot of sense, but to me IMO, the game balances on how the killer plays, if the killer doesn’t play well, the survivors dominate, but if the killer slugs, tunnels and camps, the survivors 99.9% of the time looses. Recently I’ve played against killers who are using knock out and dear stalker and slug as the very start of the match, and I ask why play like this and I get, “ wym, I won I got the 4K, just play better” Again, sorry if a lot of the stuff I said make 0 sense Otz.

[@uwuziel]

On the topic evaluating game performance, I feel like measuring Hooks or Kills on their own is not a good way of determining killer or survivor performance. The game has so many factors and complications. Some killers win often with just 4 hooks after losing a lot of Gens. Others win by applying constant pressure through a tight match. Others, not letting the survivors get going in the first place. An idea I just had was a sort of "chess eval bar" type system where throughout the game, accounting for whos in chase and not, how many gens are currently done, how close the survivors are to dying, and other factors you can basically get a timeline of "how well" the survivors and killer were doing. If its a long game where the 3 survivors escaped but with 1 hook left, the evaluation would still show the killer maintainted high pressure and did a good job keeping survivors off gens. If all the survivors died, but it was only because of a single mistake near the end, they wouldn't get punished as badly because they were ahead for a majority of the match. This helps create cleaner data, because it accounts for the time it takes for setup killers to get going, and shows how well pressure killers are at keeping survivors down. Just spitballing here, would love to hear other peoples ideas!

[@frozenbeam7114]

1 view 27 seconds? Otz is HIM

[@chadjohnson2035]

Let’s go Choy

[@Joe-gi8bv]

Fell asleep watching the gameplay review video and just woke b/c I hear someone talking so loud. Was aburpt like a commercal came on that was way louder than what I was watching. Thanks guest for waking me up.

[@rollihd714]

15:00 i would make it that the wiggle status starts being resetted after 20 sec, but when a downed survivor was picked up even once they can, after they got put on the fround, start a search action that takes 25 - 30 sec which will give the surv a sharp rock and a free escape that is like decisive strike

[@GG-kn2se]

Genuinely so many people that play DBD need to stop using the term counterplay as if there aren’t 100 scenarios where there’s no counterplay everyone is fine with. Sometimes, you just get a good result, there doesn’t need to always be an obvious counterplay. Some people genuinely think baiting the dead hard doesn’t count as a counter play etc.

[@mbastos7]

Exacly! For example blight hug tech doesn't have any

[@arcarc2663]

You can see the physical look of pain in Otz's face when Tru was hovering around the argument that a 3v1 is only what's fair and manageable for a killer.

[@boringmonkey6958]

Otz looked in pain and like he was treading on egg shells throughout a LOT of this video lol. Tru3 has a habit of going off on tangents about how unfair survivors are, even when the conversation at hand is about something that affects and can be applied to both sides, Tru3 is ONLY interested in complaining about about things on the survivor side. I felt bad for Otz because it's very difficult to have an open discussion with someone when the other person is just hellbent on pushing a certain narrative. Otz has no problem bringing up problems that both sides have to deal with, Tru3 isn't interested in discussing anything that doesn't paint a picture of "Survivors OP, Killers get bullied". It must have been exhausting for Otz trying to keep the conversations from being railroaded at every turn.

[@l-HEAVY-SNIPER-l]

i watched 2 minutes of the vid and already couldn’t stand listening to true… ur comment sounds like typical true so not surprised, dude is a giant man child

[@arcarc2663]

@@boringmonkey6958 100% agree. Tru seems to have it in his head that survivors have perfect, flawless knowledge of the entire map at all times, and are able to use every perk flawlessly every time, even in solo queue. Anything less than that is the survivor being bad at the game. You could see it every time he brought up Alex's Toolbox of all things, like a survivor having that means that they're able to completely deny all hooks while also progressing gens and also never taking hits. The way he talks about just the gen progress indicator like that gives total knowledge and is hand holding for babies. Same with the anti-facecamp and hook grab changes. Oh, now you're taking options away from the killer and lowering their skill expression, but seemingly completely oblivious to how facecamping/hook grabs took all options away from survivors. He really comes across as willfully disinterested in anything that allows survivors to have agency or make even the smallest mistakes.

[@boringmonkey6958]

@arcarc2663 I kind of gave up with the video when they started discussing high level survivors vs high level killers with both sides using the strongest things they could bring, and how the killers were averaging 2.1k's... Tru3 pulled a face and then said it was "ridiculous" that the killers could only manage an average of 2k's... At that point, I knew there was no reasoning with someone like this. He basically told on himself that he only believes the game will ever be "balanced" if killers can consistently 4k against survivors using the strongest perks and items. Then he kept bringing up "funny how it's only nurse and blight that are able to compete there"... Like, yes? That's the killer equivalent of survivors bringing the strongest perks and items... If those same survivors taking part in that challenge brought meme perks and green keys, they wouldn't stand a chance. Why would it be any different for a killer deciding to play Clown with meme perks at that experiment? If, in that same experiment Otz mentioned, the killers only averaged around 1k, then I could understand Tru3 saying it's "ridiculous". But to assert that players of a similar skill level to you using perks and items that are at the same level of strength that you are, should consistently lose to you otherwise the balance is "ridiculous" just proves what I have always thought about Tru3. That he is as biased and as entitled as the "entitled survivor mains" he constantly whines about, and he isn't at all interested in genuine discussions around balance, he just wants killers to be the "power role" and to get 4k's every match. Props to Otz for suffering through this conversation. Tru3 is such a man child.

[@battypayload8536]

⁠@@arcarc2663 I mean it’s because of his personal experience with the game. Tru3 goes against a lot of survivors with thousands of hours in the game similar to his skill level. Most likely they will know the map like the back of their hand and loops. This is why he has issues with survivor because when everyone has equal skill it usually favors survivor side more because they have more tools in their arsenal. Depends on the killer of course but most likely survivor has a better advantage. True does talk about killer side but survivors have way more going for them

[@jayyh_01]

with the whole grades system, i hit iri1 surv in my first full "season", only 2 weeks into playing. i am considerably better now, almost 1k hours, havent bothered hitting it since. but i probably put close to double the amount of hours a week in back then. all it is is something to grind for, the more casual players or the ones that dont really care likely would have not seen iri1 if it wasnt for the coming changes

[@nathonrusso1557]

This was an amazing video so I'm glad that you did this. I will say you gotta learn to let him speak even more 😂

[@kkio8258]

My two favorite streamer ❤❤❤

[@dankisegundo1979]

I think one new mechanic that would make a lot of sense with the basekit no way out, or this suffering thing, and also would make sense in dbd in general because of the lore would be if the entity got stronger the more hooks you have, so like, you would have after some time, idk, some basekit crowd control, no way out, etc. The entity would help the killer because now it is stronger and it hungers for more, what do you guys think?

[@RegBinary]

Regardless of whether I agree with either of them, I'm glad the discussion happened. It's very healthy for the community.

[@Tadek7777]

He's also a veteran of Dark Souls. God I miss old Otzdarva

[@FreznyL]

The main issue with this is otz tries to play for everyone’s fun and true doesn’t care about their fun so most of the time they aren’t gonna agree on what the best solution is because if someone is slugged otz most of the time will either try to get them to crawl or let them go where true will just wait the 4 mins. Idk why ppl with such varying opinion on their play styles are trying to agree on shit when it just wouldn’t work

[@FreznyL]

@@Tone_Of_Dials true that’s basically what I said is otz tried to play for everyone not just himself

[@baang8229]

Talking from 2 points of view is a healthy thing overall, The last thing you want is people that pretty much agree on everything to be looking for solutions, you need different view points.

[@FreznyL]

@@baang8229 yea I get the debating but they legit will never agree 😂 everytime otz tried to say oh but the survivors true just looked like yikes cuz otz plays for fun and memes when he isn’t doing streaks when true is basically always trying to win

[@PhoenixDreamer519]

My issue on the hooks vs kills topic is hooks doesn't necessarily change the game state (at least intuitively). If I opt to go for hooks instead of securing the kill then all that goes up is a counter. No immediate change in the current state of the game happens other than a timer on someone's life that gets reset because they get rescued and healed while i have to go out and secure another hook. A kill on the other hand changes the game state immediately and shows the killer that they are making progress towards a goal. You could argue that hook stages affects the mood and play of a survivors and adds pressure but that type of game state is only really felt in surv POV not the killers. In a way you can say that gen progress can be seen as hook stages and completed gens as kills. Seeing pistons and a meter fill up does nothing to the Surv but completing gens does. I can get 8 hooks and no kills but at the result screen it'll still say the same result as if I got no hook and no kills. Would it be nice if hooks matter a bit more? Sure i think it'd be a nice consolation or sub-goal/sub-quest. But don't think that kind of thing will ever be possible without building the game from the ground up. The closest i can think of is like a score streak system where both killers and survivors select their perks but have to unlock them by doing actions in a match (nothing specific just the usual BP score stuff but have that score also fill up a perk meter) but i understand that would add some complications that I can't foresee

[@Tilyaf]

43:08 I think I was subconsciously avoiding this video for awhile because I remember how awkward the original was (that and I'm just not as invested in DbD right now but still). This one's been really enjoyable so far, and I'm glad to see it.

[@Psychadelico]

Saving this video for later, but I wanna say this: this might no affect veterans at all, but getting into DB nowadays is borderline impossible and completely frustrating. You need about 60 hours to unlock a character, the reward system is comparable and even worse than gacha games and the worst part, that veterans tend to completely turn a blind eye to, you NEED to spend money on DLC on your PAID game if you want to experience licensed characters or if you want their perks. It should be illegal for someone to buy a game at 20$ and not have access to most of the content. If you don't call it pay to win, at least call it pay to not grind Also, the inability to cross progress renders the money and countless hours you might've spent on another platform useless if you're switching platforms

[@asmith8190]

bro what? as you said the game costs 20 bucks and then you have to spent like 15€ on in-game purchases so what? a horribly polished AAA game costs 70€ and has maybe 20hrs of content. dbd is óne of the few very old ONLINE games with literaly THOUSANDS of hours of content and a 0% to die out anytime soon. but paying 35€ for that is too much for you? logic? hello?

[@Psychadelico]

@@asmith8190 Your tone straight up tells me whatever I'd say would fall on deaf ears, but I'll retort either way. As I said, most veteran players wouldn't understand because they've been gradually paying for dbd DLCS for years, but as of right now, if you want to play any licensed character of have their perks, you need to buy paid dlc in a game you already paid for. There are, if I'm not mistaken, 12 licensed characters that are locked behind a pay wall and no way for you to even try them before buying them. If you think locking almost half of the killers (I won't even talk about survivors and their perks) behind a paywall, on an already paid game, is a fair monetisation system, I don't have much to argue with. Comparing DBD to awfully monetised AAA games is a pretty bad standard if you ask me, but different strokes for different folk

[@Merumya]

fair point Id say. I guess getting to choose 1 free DLC with the purchase or, like, getting 9k iridescent shards from quests or something similar would help a great deal. just dont make it available immediately, or ppl are going to buy something they may regret later.

[@mekkor0101]

@@Psychadelico I understand the daunting prospect of having to buy extra. But I do also believe that that is a neccesity unfortunately. The game is 8 years old. Should DLC that supported the game be made free? What of those that bought the DLC when it came out? DBD is a game that demands some time investment, that's for sure. And as for licensed content? No, yeah it sucks. But their licensed, an agreement was made between to corps, they CAN'T have you unlock it for free. So watch content creators like Otz, read his guides, take his funky little quiz on his web-site to figure out what content you should get, and what you can go without.

[@SkySoFew]

Right??? How dare they charge money to try to recoup money for very expensive licenses. The very nerve!!!!! Everything should be free all the time!!! And cross progression, which isn't even their fault in the case, yeah! If you do something on one game system you should just be handed the same things on every system! You don't come off as entitled at all.

[@estherwinchester2831]

Well, dbd Twitter survivors are gonna have a field day seeing tru3 here

[@fluffatron754]

Never been a fan of tr3 but he comes across very well in this video. Even the points I disagree on I found he made his point well.

[@idrisali3947]

ahh i remember the win streak drama, glad to see he’s mellowed out

[@WutTheDeuceGaming]

It wasn't really drama nor was he even remotely aggressive about it. The video is still up on Otz's channel.

[@idrisali3947]

@@Tone_Of_Dials nah i used to be a tru3 fan back when dbd first came out and the for honor/injustice 2 days. he used to be a lot more annoying with his rages and tangents in general. i can see he has matured but that’s what years do to you i guess. makes me happy to see he’s back in streaming communities and discussions. never thought he was an awful guy

[@nileboy5055]

I think true is very biased from his place as a killer man and as a very high skill player who more or less play this game as a full-time job he has trouble seeing how exactly balancing the game for people like him affect the rest of the player base and vice versa when prompted with questions regarding people who play very differently than him or even as like a Survivor playing solo queue lot of the time the answer is something along the lines of I don't know. I also think this kind of top-down balancing perspective is usually does more harm than good because the majority of the player base is closer to the bottom and they are the top. Another thing is that you know nerfs vs incentives nerf vs buffs sometimes something in a game presents itself too strong or as a negative play pattern the process of introducing new systems is way harded not only to develop but also conceptualize and tweak rather than adjusting a system that already exists and also doesn't run the risk of accidentally introducing a new problem that is just as or even moreso problematic.

[@smokinmirrors8438]

My solution to the worst parts of dbd, like 2 people alive at 3 gens, or one person dead at 5, is to have it where gens repair faster based on the amount of people alive. That way it’s beneficial to hook everyone several times before going for kills. It also promotes individual survivors skills because even after someone dies you will still have a fighting chance and it’s not unfair for the killer because they already got a kill. I would love to see a mechanic like this because competitive dbd is so boring because every killer camps the first survivor to stage two, so it’s a 3v1

[@NameIsDoc]

Basekit dying light or Thanataphobia would be nice. Maybe change it to applying slow on first hooks to give a reason to not tunnel. Dying light is great when you can get it going but has so many stipulations. My personal idea is basekit unnerving then buff perk unnerving to lower Gen skill check rewards by 50% if survivors are in the terror radius. That subtlely encourages skittishness around terror radius and slows down the absurd genrush strats. Maybe a combo of the two but that would be a bit busted

[@robert13th]

An interesting discussion can be with otz, king, paulie, tru, and a moderator for the topics at hand

[@robert13th]

or with scott jund, tofu, schmuckles, spooky loopz.

[@CUZdeathwins]

as a survivor main who almost exclusively plays solo (no swf to play with), i think its a needed thing that u cant de-grade and no de-pip is a welcome change. the amount of times Ive lost pips to teammates inting and killing themselves immediately has cost me hours in grade progress. there should be more incentives to progression imo other than just bps, even if it doesn’t affect matchmaking. I play mostly mid/highish mmr and would never wanna play in the highest as a solo q (although sometimes the killers im faced against are like p100 blights nurses etc and im on a team of babies). idk if this is just for a lack of killers playing the game or the mmr system is still unbelievably flawed

[@flegmaniac3462]

I'm with you. There's no benefit of ranks besides these points, which are especially needed at the start. Just remove the depip and give us them points without too much tryharding.

[@rainy538]

In my opinion devs should add add things that could counter killers like nurse or blight. I mean, then you don't really need to nerf killer or buff his addons much and also gameplay is more fun. Like, when you play dredge - survivors can lock lockers, when you play singularity - survivors can take this weapon from box, when you play vs nemi - you can take serum from box. And it's only a though: nurse and blight could be slowed or charge their powers slower in case, idk, there was some device on map. You got the idea, like, some things that can counter killer on map while making it much more fun for both sides.

[@frillygames]

I bet it’d be cool if nurse had more injures = faster cooldown. If everyone is healed then the cooldown is longer. It fits in with her being a nurse too.

[@iiTzSunrise]

​@@frillygameshit and run slug nurse is not fun to play as or against from a nurse main.

[@frillygames]

@@iiTzSunrise maybe slugging makes the cooldown longer then? Im saying injuries, not slugs. Im just throwing out ideas

[@iiTzSunrise]

@@frillygames injure without slug is just another legion. Nurse shouldn't be nerfed anyway other killers should be buffed sensibly to match the stronger killers. Nerfing them to zero makes it worthless to learn them and makes the game weaker

[@frillygames]

@@iiTzSunrise im fairly new to the game and havent played many killers :p but buffing other killers would make sense.