Two (or More) Problems with Hell (Delivered in a Rambling Style)

[@jackshadow325]

I think David Bentley Hart gets things mostly right in his book.

[@ShaneShelldriick]

The problem with a super happy Heaven and a yucky torturous Hell is that it makes the damned heroic and the saved pansies

[@davidlovesyeshua]

I’m sure you’re already aware of this, but just a reminder that agnostics and atheists like myself watch your videos. Thank you for being so persistently rigorous, compassionate and intellectually consistent. Though I don’t believe God likely exists, I do hold out just a little hope.

[@racsooj456]

Hi Dr Rauser, would it be fair to say that you are espousing a kind of insanity plea for those who reject God? If so, would you share a video regarding how you remain an annihilationist? If not, it would be great to hear why you remain non universalist in light of the problems you have raised.

[@ShaneShelldriick]

We are a brutal people who inhabit a brutal reality. Our institutions of power and authority deal with our brutality by being even more brutal than us. Our religions evolve to complement this authoritarian brutality. Therefore, it's no surprise that the brand of Christianity that developed into the state Church was the scariest form

[@aussierob7177]

What you are talking about has nothing to do with hell.

[@kylealandercivilianname2954]

What about the reconciliationist view of hell? The Reconciliation View of Hell posits that the damned are reconciled to God not through love, but through subjugation. In this model, the damned recognize and accept God’s justice and authority, even though they may never come to love Him. Their active, sinful behaviors are prevented by God, but their internal rejection of God’s love, considered a sin of omission, is allowed to persist. This view suggests that while the damned do not achieve the Beatific Vision, they might still experience a form of natural happiness, living in peace within the natural order, yet separated from the full communion with God that the blessed enjoy.

[@BrutalCross]

The problem I see with this view is that sin still persists forever and is never defeated, any version of eternal torment that tries to eliminate sin from the cosmos I think necessarily leads to the damned being conformed to the image of Christ, hence universalism, since not loving, worshiping and praising God is sin, and not having the complete elimination of sin means not all enemies are defeated (1 Cor 15) and a dualism of good and evil always existing.

[@kylealandercivilianname2954]

@@BrutalCross The idea that God forces people to love Him would contradict the nature of love itself, as love must be freely given, not coerced, which would be abuse. In the Reconciliation Model, while the damned continue to reject God internally, they are prevented from committing further active sins, so sin is not perpetuated in the cosmos. This allows God to maintain order and justice, but respects the free will of those who choose not to love Him.

[@EnglishMike]

You still have the problem that around 99% of people who belong to a major faith tradition on this planet, simply believe the same the religion they were raised -- family and/or community -- throughout their lives. Why should 99% of all Muslims and Hindus be condemned to remain forever separated from God when they came to their faith the exact same way 99% of all Christians -- i.e. they were faithful to the religion they were taught as children? What about Christians who rejected their faith after a brain injury, or as an early consequence of dementia, or after abuse by a pastor or priest? What about psychopaths who are incapable of feeling empathy or understanding when they do harm to others? What about couples who were inseparable for over 60 years of marriage where one spouse is a Christian and the other an atheist? How can Heaven be perfect for the Christian if their spouse is forever kept apart from them? The more specific you are how the afterlife works, the more these problems arise. All these problems go away with universal salvation, in one or more of its various forms. And come to think of it, what you're suggesting is actually two separate Heavens. After all if people are happy eternally in this other place, that's infinite happiness, just as in Heaven itself. (Infinities are tricky beasts to handle!)

[@vaskaventi6840]

My issue with this view is that is seems highly psychologically unstable. Perfect natural happiness requires a solid level of virtue and understanding of truth. It's hard enough to explain how any rational person could eternally reject their own Good, it's even harder to explain how someone with a stable enough mental state to enjoy maximal happiness could do so. CS Lewis argued that eternity tends to bring out extremes. A slight trajectory toward evil will eventually spawn a demon, a slight trajectory toward good will eventually create a saint. Someone who is demonic likely can't enjoy natural happiness, someone who is saintly likely wouldn't hold out on God forever.

[@BrutalCross]

@@kylealandercivilianname2954 I agree that love must be freely chosen, or else it's not true love, However I think universalism is compatible with love freely chosen. I think what a lot of people miss is that if one is to reject God forever who is the perfect good, who is everything humans fundamentally want, then they are not free, but there wills are enslaved to sin, at least to some degree, we all want love, we all want good, and God is perfect love and perfect good, therefore it would be irrational for one to reject God FOREVER they may reject him for a time depending on the degree of their sin, but to do this for eternity would be irrational, God is everything we fundamentally want and we try and find it in sin, but sin leaves us empty and does not and cannot ultimately satisfy. The fact is if someone actually chooses their sin over God for eternity then sin can untimely satisfy, yet this is ridiculous, sin only gives the illusion of satisfaction and always eventually ends up destroying the person. True satisfaction can only be found in God, Only God can fill that God shaped void he put in our hearts, he may let the sinner rebel for a time, but once the sinner comes to their senses and recognizes everything they want is in God, either by divine help or their own realization, then they will change their minds and repent and be reconciled.