Two Shamans go to a Trump rally offering empathy: what did we learn?

[@IvanChocron]

Based on some comments, I'm realizing how much people hear what they want to hear, since some people thought this discussion was pro Trump, and some others thought it was against him. I'd appreciate if before commenting you ACTUALLY listen to the discussion. It is not pro or against. We went there, noticed things, and we share them. None of us both here are strong supporters of either political party. This isn't a political discussion as much as it is giving a first hand experience of an event that it is usually only seen through the overblown click-bait lens of the media.

[@animist_avery]

I appreciate how articulate you two are. This video was like a drink of clear water

[@TaylorJohnson-ur8ek]

This is such a rare and wonderful thing youve created here. Thanks.

[@IvanChocron]

Thanks for listening!

[@KatBwye]

This was so insightful and helpful. I loved the entire conversation and I hope more people continue to watch this and absorb the message. It's so difficult to break away from our own stories and egos to want to HUMANIZE the "other" or the "enemy" or that "threat" to our own feelings of whatever we call safe and right- and yet it's so important to practice. We - the people - are not so much up against each other, we're together, up against a system that feeds of our division.

[@IvanChocron]

Words of truth and wisdom right here!

[@danielchow7499]

Ever since Trump came on the stage, I wanted to understand. I try. I wondered and asked myself and the Universe what makes these folks think and feel this way, and what were the roots of their thoughts and feelings. Then your discussion came along. I am grateful for your perceptive observations. It is difficult to see through the drama and noise that the Media makes - news stations and print, social media and bloggers. We swing from one far end to the other end zipping past the middle ground. We can’t see the forest for the trees because we distract ourselves with finding any infractions to judge and cancel others. So we say to the Trump supporters, let me take the speck out of your eyes but we ignore the log in ours. Why? Because we are arrogant, self-righteous and hypocrites. We treat anyone who does not agree with us as idiots, stupid, insane, uneducated, and deserving to be canceled, and shamed. We have become the biblical Pharisees. We never seem to fail to find stones to throw at others, and we are quickly wearing down our already overused gavels. So what do we do? Get our arrogant heads out of our butts, seek reconciliation, learn to be patient and listen with the desire to understand, show empathy, AND compassion to others. Like you and me, the folks who do not agree with our ideals are also humans with hopes and dreams for a better life. In a world where we can be anything, be compassionate. Namasté.

[@IvanChocron]

Beautiful self reflection Daniel.

[@JustliketheMilk]

So glad to hear of your experience and thoughts on the matter

[@indigopisces]

Aloha:) I’m also shamanic, having been a long time meditator, musician and plant ally explorer. I’ve always considered myself “ liberal “ , but the Left has gone too far , in my opinion. Personally, I rooted for Trump and always felt more at ease with him in office. In the beginning when he ran and was elected in 2016, I didn’t follow politics at all but in 2020 I started to look . I just knew Trump was the better choice than Hillary. In 2020, I actually voted for him. I align with his slogan : Make America Great Again ……to me it makes sense. I feel “ Trump supporters “ are generally more sophisticated in a common sense kind of way. Trump IS NOT a racist…. That’s total propaganda. The “ Liberal Left “ are engaging in absolute projection, meaning THEY are the actual racists. Those with eyes to see , see . I’m glad you went to see for yourselves, though I haven’t watched the video all the way to the end….looking forward to hearing the full analysis.

[@IvanChocron]

Thanks for listening openly!

[@markjsilverman]

Thank you for this discussion. you guys threaded the needle of you experience and communicating that experience beautifully. Masterfully even. It left me listening from several perspectives. 1) as a spiritual man longing to love, connect and heal. 2) as a gay Jewish man wanting safety and an environment to thrive, 3) as a father of two sons wondering what kind of world are we leaving them and my grandchildren. 4) As a 62 year old man who sees the danger of this energy…. Wanting to be “spiritual” about it, but oooof, knowing what humans (including me) are capable of. Integrating all the perspectives has been the work. Most times i can keep perspective and fascinated. Love to you both and thank you for what you do.

[@IvanChocron]

Thank you for this thorough comment Mark and for your appreciation. Is great to hear it has landed so well, especially with such a sensitive topic that neither of us intended to make political.

[@stopwars8642]

Lets go Shamans, break that spell, meaningful change, experince is valid undeniable , curiosity

[@ellensherfey4061]

Bear in mind of course, it was New Jersey.

[@kayecastleman6353]

My thought, too. They may have come away feeling that the energy was less "fragile" if the rally were in Tennessee or Wyoming.

[@GuyJames]

this was great. good point about how Trump gets his supporters and feels their anger. And about how wokeism is the other side of the coin, feeding right wing anger, it's the same energy at th end of the day

[@lsalmon2207]

Nuanced, unconventional approach! "The hot dogs of your state..." 😂

[@IvanChocron]

If you ever are worried about how the hot dogs of your state rank in the world, just ask Trump and you’ll feel better.

[@avachilds1502]

Thank you that was so informative and interesting ❤

[@Holisticharmony75]

Love this, thank you!❤️🫶🏽🪬

[@lisaanderson4060]

I wish you could interview my Republican Brother in Texas… then you’d get a whole other perspective 😂😂😂

[@roadrider1100]

Interesting conclusion regarding empathy. It will be interesting to see the change in the Americas with Trump, Melei, and Bulele leadership. I'm optimistic.

[@viktoriyasemenova5503]

Not into politics at all but it was quite entertaining:) Really enjoyed the language of you two 🤤❤

[@IvanChocron]

I'm not into politics either. The idea was to bring something outside of the political view and talk about psychology, emotions and empathy. Hope that came across!

[@DIYDSP]

Lol'd at 16:37. I'm really interested in this premise. It's been hard for me to find the words for my perspective but ime my friends and circle think of empathy as a "reward" and not as an emotional tool for understanding another's perspective. So I can understand where they're coming from, but they would surely benefit from a deeper definition of empathy but it's also very confortable for them to not change. I'll watch the rest now.

[@danielchow7499]

Thank you 🙏🏽 From thich nhat hanh Deep Listening and Loving Speech DEEP LISTENING AND loving speech are wonderful instruments to help us arrive at the kind of understanding we all need as a basis for appropriate action. You listen deeply for only one purpose to allow the other person to empty his or her heart. This is already an act of relieving suffering. To stop any suffering, no matter how small, is a great action of peace. The path to end suffering depends on your understanding and your capacity to act without causing harm or further suffering. This is acting with compassion, your best protection.

[@lisaanderson4060]

❤great conclusion!!!

[@lisaanderson4060]

But I think this is fabulous that you guys did this!! Very very interesting!❤

[@IvanChocron]

Glad you liked it!

[@BradBreth]

Intersting conversation, appreciate your perspective. Props to you guys for doing this.

[@IvanChocron]

Thank you!

[@indigopisces]

Interesting…. The more I listen, I realize if we ever met we’d have a lot in common …. That is until our political opinions came up. I do applaud that you were open enough to attend.

[@IvanChocron]

Thank you as well for being open too!

[@muckmccormick]

Awesome talk and also explains the right party development in Europe very well. Thanks for sharing.

[@IvanChocron]

Glad you liked it!

[@kayecastleman6353]

Compared to the news reports and podcasts I've listened to in recent months, including references to this particular rally, your impressions sound pretty similar. Some of Sarah Longwell's focus groups with current and ex Trump voters are especially revealing in giving a broader perspective of Trump supporters and their views. That said, I love that you both went with open hearts and minds into the "belly of the beast." Great analysis!

[@IvanChocron]

That’s validating, thanks for the nice words and for listening!

[@jennylistens2477]

You say he gets them. That's right. And he plays them. A grandiose narcissist like this cannot empathize. Like you said, he's a performer.

[@IvanChocron]

Yes. He gets them and he uses them.

[@dlehmann8353]

@@IvanChocron Disagreed- See my commentary

[@danielchow7499]

By the way, what makes a shaman a shaman?

[@IvanChocron]

08:54 we discuss just that

[@normabrien8331]

I don’t necessarily agree with you but to each its own. You seem to ignore the power of the female vote who are experiencing some harrowing experiences regarding their pregnancy where sometimes they have experienced life and death situations. I don’t think that trump will win.

[@IvanChocron]

Thanks for the comment. I don’t think we are ignoring their vote. We are just sharing what we saw that day. Which part didn’t you agree with?

[@annhince]

This was an interesting discussion. Two people with deep self-awareness discussing people with little self-awareness. That's what I have come to understand about his supporters and I would be interested to hear if you believe it fits with your experience. Self-awareness is on a spectrum - those with deep self-awareness are able to see from multiple points of view and can therefore have compassion for others, those with little self-awareness are only able to see from their own point of view, or that of their family (as in the one gentleman you spoke to about his grandfather), and so don't have compassion for others. It's also why they cannot see beyond his words and cannot sense his deception. Would you say that fits with your observations?

[@annhince]

@@LynneSimpson-mm3us As I said, self-awareness is on a spectrum. Yes, as a nurse, I would imagine you have more self-awareness than others. The tricky thing is, we don't necessarily know how much more self-awareness we have from where we are until we do sufficient inner work to move to a new level of self-awareness so that we have perspective.

[@zachend2750]

I think you were expecting theatrical based on people open to experiences and Trump's fans are conservative and so they are afraid of change. I think no matter what you were going to be disappointed from a lack of color. You have to understand there are different cultures and outliers. Conservatives are inward looking. Think Japan but outspoken about their feelings that comes off not sympathetic. If you begin to understand different cultures think differently you kinda can see them more as people. A great talk on this is kzbin.info/www/bejne/paLOq6NveJeJr6ssi=4usI0qiA0l3UHciD

[@the1andonlyknight]

what's a shaMAN? I SWARE ME PETER PALPAN HAVE NO IDEA! SO I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT IT IS! THANK YOU!!

[@IvanChocron]

Listen to the podcast! We talk about that too.