Two Stations - a little over a Mile apart, which you couldn't travel between!

Рет қаралды 32,661

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер

@musiqtee 2 ай бұрын

Two stations unnaturally close together, connected through an industrial radius tight curve detour… Sounds like the average HO or OO scale layout…? 😊

@lmm 2 ай бұрын

Pretty much!

@bentullett6068 2 ай бұрын

That was a fascinating bit of railway history. I do like reading and listening to items like this. The largely abandoned line on the isle of Anglesea amazes me as most of the track is still in place and it would make a great preserved railway.

@rinston3591 2 ай бұрын

Love your vids on abandoned railways, has fascinated me ever since as a kid my Dad took me to see old railways. To think of the effort put in to build a long standard gauge line, bridges, stations, tunnels and viaducts. The thousands of people who built, worked on and travelled on these railways for them now to be abandoned and in many cases forgotten, it’s fascinating. Great that so many are being cleared and reused as footpaths as well as restored as heritage lines.

@MattyP62618 2 ай бұрын

I'm a local boy so nothing here was new to me! All I can add was that I remember talking to an old engine driver about how before the loop was put in, they used to spend at least half a day driving their big old WD 2-10-0's from Norwich Thorp to Norwich City. They thought it was a gods send when the loop was put in! Of course by that point they were driving mostly diesels

@michael32A 2 ай бұрын

I'm 90% sure we had only the 2-8-0s on the 'Round the World' hauling sand and pre-cast concrette beams via Cromer, with the very few WD 2-10-0s BR had were based in Scotland? Hence it was such a shame 90733 didn't make it from the K&WVR during its first ticket in BR guise (the haulier couldn't get the planned Police escort they needed to safely negotiate their way through traffic out of West Yorkshire owing to a demonstration that suddenly took place in Leeds), besides being nice to pair-up with 90775.

@althejazzman 2 ай бұрын

Good luck getting a 2-10-0 or or a 2-8-0 around that curve!

@michael32A 2 ай бұрын

@@althejazzman 😂- yes, this curve was put in at the dawn of the Diesel era (mostly Class 31s). I believe the _one_ steam engine ever to tackle this curve was 'The Wandering 1500', aka B12 number 61572, on a railtour, now preserved at the North Norfolk Railway nearby.

@michael32A 2 ай бұрын

@@althejazzman to clarrify a bit better - the old 'Round the World' route for Goods continued north from Themelthorpe via Melton Constable to Cromer on ex-M&GN lines, then around Cromer Triangle (long gone, though all earthworks/bridges remain) to avoid the terminus at Cromer Beach, before switching to the still-extant ex-GER route south to Norwich (Norwich Thorpe station, as was) for onward travel across Britain. _That's_ the route that had the WD 2-8-0s working it we meant. Themelthorpe Curve and the shorter route via Aylsham to Wroxham it opened up to Norwich (Thorpe) for Class 31s around 1960 halved the overall distance from Lenwade concrette works to the rest of the national rail network. Ironically, the M&GN Rly pioneered casting concrette at their Melton Constable headquarters, filing many important patents as I understand it, decades before many concrette girders for the first Motorways were transported over the last vestiges of their rural rail network (including through MC itself) in a county that never got an inch of motorway itself and only recently got investment in dualing its vital A-roads.😕

@MattyP62618 2 ай бұрын

@michael32A yes sorry meant 2-8-0's 🤦‍♂️

@mikeuk4130 Ай бұрын

Marvelous stuff! That curve was located in the Field of Dreams. If you build it, we will come!

@Soj_89 2 ай бұрын

Honestly I love that curve. Put in for the sake of freight trains, limited to 5 or 10 miles per hours at points, the last railway to close in the area, and how it resulted in one of the first rails-to-trails projects in the UK, resulting in a route I have cycled on many times. Brilliant piece of petty engineering.

@johnanthony4194 Ай бұрын

Loved it. Thank you. I spend far too much time tracing closed railways on Google Maps. Once I start I get caught. Sometimes, like in this example the old trackbed has been ploughed over and obliterated, which then means careful search nest section.

@Flymochairman1 2 ай бұрын

What a fun and loopy tale of Two Railways. I've read a bit about the formation of the now defunct line in my area and I can imagine the skulduggery and shenanigans that led to the Loop. All the best with the museum and the latest addition to your collection. All the best Lawrie. Cheers!

@davepegz 2 ай бұрын

Just down the road here in Aylsham there used to be two stations, one for each line. There was even a plan at one time to connect the two with a tram line, although all that came of that was the building of a strange curved section of road, called New Road, to avoid a very sharp junction. Marriot's Way ends where Aylsham South station used to be, but from there the old trackbed is used by the Bure Valley narrow gauge railway as far as Wroxham and has a really nice cycle path alongside it. Aylsham north station has gone as well, but the old trackbed now forms part of The Weaver's Way footpath and much of that can be cycled as well at least as far as North Walsham, and with a short detour as far as Stalham.

@craigtiano3455 2 ай бұрын

In the suburbs of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania are two passenger stations a mile apart: Chestnut Hill East and Chestnut Hill West. In order to travel between East and West, you have to travel all the way to Philadelphia, change trains at 30th street station, and then board the line to the other station. It's a 40+ mile round trip, and takes hours. The reason for this is that one station was opened by the Pennsylvania Railroad, which primarily ran to the south of city before turning to the west (the Pennsylvania main line), whereas the other station was opened by the Reading Railroad, which ran to the West and North of the city. Today, both stations are open as SEPTA regional railroad stations.

@beeble2003 2 ай бұрын

As soon as you're in a city, this becomes completely normal. Any city with more than one rail line through it is likely to have two such stations. Probably the most obvious one to British viewers is that, in London, the three major termini of King's Cross, St Pancras and Euston are all less than half a mile from each other but I've no idea how many tens of miles you'd have to travel by train to get between them. And, of those three, King's Cross and St Pancras are literally on opposite sides of the same road!

@susaneb1954 Ай бұрын

Great video, love looking for clues in the landscape.

@rodsmith3911 2 ай бұрын

Cycled most of Marriotts Way in September. A lovely route but alas most of the scenery is now obscured by the trees that have almost taken over the old railway. Great spots to watch Badgers in the evening light though as there are several very large sets along the route. Excellent cafes at both Whitwell and Reepham stations and another halfway between! There's also a superb cafe and deli in the centre of Cawston which is less than half a mile from the site of the old station there with Cawston signal box preserved as a garden shed just behind it. Great for a days cycling at a leisurely pace with frequent stops for sustenance! With Norwich at one end and Aylsham at the other it's ideal for a day or two out.

@davepegz 2 ай бұрын

The Deli at Cawston is wonderful! I'm just a couple of miles down the Marriotts Way in Aylsham - a nice ride there for a lunchtime bowl of soup breaks up the day niceley 🙂

@northernblue1093 2 ай бұрын

A map would have helped

@stuvix 2 ай бұрын

Great bit of Norfolk history that I had no idea about! Would love to see the Whitwell expand further :)

@mpeterll 2 ай бұрын

There are a couple of places near where I used to live in Surrey where stations are close together by unconnected. There are the two stations in Farnborough, and also North Camp & Ash Vale. A couple of times, I made the connection between these last two on foot.

@mikebrown3772 Ай бұрын

There are tighter curves still in use for passenger traffic at both Liskeard (on the line to Looe) and beyond Calstock (on the line to Gunnislake) in Cornwall.

@debshipard1664 2 ай бұрын

Keep these interesting bits coming please.

@johnpritchard9373 2 ай бұрын

I cycled from Norwich up to the Whitwell & Reepham Railway Station in May 2023, but sadly, being a Monday, the premises were closed. Instead of following the line of the railway, along the shared use path around this tight curve to Reepham, I took the shorter route via the Whitwell Road, into Reepham, where I discovered the excellent community-run Reepham Library, with their voluntary run cafe, with hot drinks & locally produced cakes. After picking up the Marriott Way off Cawston Road, I made my way to Aylsham, where I picked up the Bute Valley Path. While this section may not have been as wide as the Marriot Way for cycling, it did enable me to reach the railway station at Hoveton & Wroxton Railway Statuon, and catch the train back to Norwich. So sorry not to see Lawrie’s recent Rushton acquisition; perhaps next time.

@Dhira108 2 ай бұрын

Fascinating history, it's really a great idea to reinstate the old railway But yes what an odd situation

@Mrdoctile 2 ай бұрын

YES, way to start my Sunday...Thanks You so much..

@prsdx4450 2 ай бұрын

We have something similar in Yorkshire. The pontefract loop or “chord” linked pontefract monkhill with pontefract baghill stations via a viaduct which is still there today.

@MichaelCampin 2 ай бұрын

You should see the curve at Hartlepool Station , now it's been reinstated into double track station.

@mammothwar 2 ай бұрын

Is this LMM's next crowdfunding challenge? Rebuilding the railway for the LMM fleet to run on.

@lmm 2 ай бұрын

Maybe one day

@dominicbuckley8309 2 ай бұрын

@@lmm A few years back, W&R laid some additional track, to enable trains to run from the main platform. Norfolk County Council's reaction to this impingement on the Marriott Way may safely be described as 'epic'. There's no chance of them allowing 6 miles of standard gauge track to be installed; but the BVR shows that a narrow gauge track can coexist with the footpath, so perhaps that would be a way forward.

@lizziebaker4715 2 ай бұрын

Yes!!!!!@@lmm

@MattyP62618 2 ай бұрын

@@dominicbuckley8309 plus the astronomical amount of money it would take... To put it into perspective, the Mid Norfolk Railway re-connecting their 5 mile stretch to County School from Dereham is expected to cost somewhere around £10million, and that's with the tracked (mostly) in one piece

@Tsurnari 2 ай бұрын

The side by side viewer on the National Library of Scotland is a great tool to use when trying to follow an old railway line. Satellite view on one side and a map from whatever time period on the other.

@lmm 2 ай бұрын

It's brilliant isn't it!

@dliles773 2 ай бұрын

Thank you for the video Yes to more videos

@railwaychristina3192 2 ай бұрын

Is this the famous Thelmethorpe curve?

@lmm 2 ай бұрын

Yep

@detroitredneckdetroitredne6674 2 ай бұрын

😂😂 spectacular job Brother thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise and for taking us on your adventures through time and history RXR GOD-BLESS

@Madonsteamrailways 2 ай бұрын

These stations are architectural gems that looked gorgeous in their own little way!! It’s similar to Mundesley and Cromer!! The only difference is that both are still in use.

@nigelfarley814 2 ай бұрын

Spend an excellent day there last Sunday the 27/10. A very nice site indeed.

@christophermatthews6972 Ай бұрын

For two unconnected stations serving an insignificant place, consider Tymdrum Upper and Lower.

@stephenhopwood9787 2 ай бұрын

Walking Reepham to Whitwell and then around the curve back to Reepham has been one of my favourite dog walks. Is it a serious possibility that you could get trains running around the curve again?

@CZ350tuner 2 ай бұрын

There's quiet a few interesting "Anomalies" on Britain's railways, such as this line and the Castleman Corkscrew.

@richardbrobeck2384 2 ай бұрын

great video !

@theanticitizen11 2 ай бұрын

You should take a look at Maidstone in Kent, the two railways cross each other in the town

@stormwell 2 ай бұрын

There's still bit of track in situ in and around the old works at Lenwade, alot of it can seen from the A1075 that runs past it. Recall a few years back that the Whitwell & Reepham was pursuing a legal case that they inherited the Act of Parliament that authorized the M&GN and thus technically owned the trackbd that Marriott's Way now runs on. Not heard much else on this though. It'll be interesting if the GER from Reepham to County School on the Mid Norfolk could re-open, help create an interconnected network of heritage lines. Still nice shout out to the M&GN, my nan worked at Sutton Bridge during the 1950s.

@mervynwells6577 Ай бұрын

Stations on the Great.Central were not connected to other starions in the towns they served either. Nottinghamm, Loughborough, Leicester Rugby ... to mention just four. And how different things could have been if they were connected

@screwdriver5181 Ай бұрын

I believe that there was a sharper curve on the Cromford and high peak at Gotham

@malcolmone1 2 ай бұрын

from above on google maps its even better to view ,there is a tight curve in Birmingham at kings Norton

@sr6424 2 ай бұрын

The loop I find interesting is the Ely avoiding line. I’m sure I traveled on it in the 1989s although it apparently closed to passengers in the 60s. I was on a loco hauled passenger train from Birmingham to Norwich. It would make sense not reversing at Ely. Any idea if I remember correctly!

@adamsfamily4060 2 ай бұрын

You are correct. Still used by passenger excursion trains.

@richardbevis182 Ай бұрын

@@adamsfamily4060 Still at least one timetabled passenger service operating today

@garyhinson3876 2 ай бұрын

fascinating, here's one, the rail severed crossing places for getting to the Isle of Skye are Mallaig and Kyle of Lochalsh, the distance between them by ferry and road is 27 miles, how far by rail ?

@steveC2 2 ай бұрын

Same in Fakenham , 2 stations less than a mile apart not connected and the tracks crossed

@beeble2003 2 ай бұрын

I mean, the obvious one is "Same in London. King's Cross and St Pancras literally on opposite sides of the same road but etc."

@adamsfamily4060 2 ай бұрын

Different companies. Had they wanted a passenger connection an interchange station could been built were the lines crossed.

@GrumpyOldGamer9221 2 ай бұрын

Good video, adding old photos where possible would help.

@JohnSmith-bx8zb 2 ай бұрын

Lelant to Lelant Saltings worth a video? Along with the 2 Manchester Stations that you could walk to without leaving platform 3

@kernow..exp. 2 ай бұрын

Great video m8

@ianhudson2193 2 ай бұрын

Used to be worse at Evesham..... .......two stations faced each other across a forecourt.......but by train Evesham-Ashchurch-Worcester-Evesham. Oh.....and the GE/M&GN curve was put in more to transport heavy concrete structures from Lenwade rather than to serve Norwch City...

@anfieldroadlayoutintheloft5204 2 ай бұрын

great vid

@detroitredneckdetroitredne6674 2 ай бұрын

hello from romulus Michigan USA

@davidballoid2118 2 ай бұрын

Yup, just needed a DMU or a Trolley to connect them, nothing quite like corporate falling short of one-selves!

@neilbucknell9564 2 ай бұрын

Hi Lawrie - can I suggest a follow up video? There's quite a network of old trackbeds at the Pensthorpe nature reserve at Fakenham - now miles from the rail network. Perhaps one on East Anglia's lost major railway junction?

@MattyP62618 2 ай бұрын

It wasn't a junction as such, it was that the M&GN line crossed the GE line, much like here. Fakenham had 2 stations serving both networks much like many of the other major population centres in North Norfolk

@beeble2003 2 ай бұрын

Thanks -- now I know how to pronounce Reepham! (I'd've guessed "REE-p'm", given that -ham is a common suffix.) Doesn't seem all that strange that you couldn't get between the two stations, though. If they're a mile apart, that's only 20 minutes' walk, which would be faster than waiting for a train anyway. And, heck, look at King's Cross and St Pancras -- they're on opposite sides of the same street and you can't get a train between them.

@danny1983ish 5 күн бұрын

Would make a welcome extension

@lmm 5 күн бұрын

Would be amazing!

@danny1983ish 4 күн бұрын

@lmm I think you could be the driving force 😉

@LeoCarpenter-n4t 2 ай бұрын

Have you thought about raising money for the whitwell and reepham railway to extend the line towards Norwich or Melton constable?

@MattyP62618 2 ай бұрын

Never going to happen

@alexcane4498 2 ай бұрын

How does this curve's radius compare to the one still in use(?) at Ely? Looks like the M&GN lived up to its nickname!...

@arch9enius 2 ай бұрын

Any special orders / conditions regarding the use of the loop i. e. no Riddles 2-10-0s etc? Just a bit worried if you go that way you won't be able to get your mkII round .

@captaincool3329 2 ай бұрын

Talking about the M&GN, have you seen Bachmann's new coaches?

@MorrisHGT 2 ай бұрын

Hey lawrie! I don't know but i saw maybe your dobbelganger at Maastricht at samhain festival 26 and 27 october! It wasn't you right? You will never know😅

@4everdc302 2 ай бұрын

So you can make a goofy loop HO Scale layout and be prototypical 😅👍🚂🇨🇦🇬🇧

@sawyerawr5783 2 ай бұрын

You want to talk about ridiculous track layouts...I know of one instance like this in US Narrow Gauge. The Denver, South Park and Pacific Ry and the Denver and Rio Grande both were within such a close distance at a place called Climax, Colorado (on the line from Breckenridge to Leadville, CO on the DSP&P, and the Leadville-Silverthorne branch for the D&RG), that it was possible to reach out from a train on one line and touch on the other....but the two had done such a good job of pissing each other off that neither interchanged there. a passenger wanting to go to Breckenridge (which was something of a major town back in those days) coming from Silverthorne, had to go all the way down to Either Leadville or Buena Vista...the latter 37 miles distant as the crow flies, but by rail nearly 50 miles distant...then swap trains and turn back. And when I say "they'd pissed each other off," I mean the DSP&P and D&RG were so at each other's throats that as the South Park track layers reached Leadville, they found a cold D&RG engine parked parked perfectly on D&RG track, where they'd have to cross. Oh, and any attempt to move the D&RG engine would have lead to a court case at best.

@vickielawless 2 ай бұрын

Didn't Ramsey in Cambs. have a similar issue, 2 stations barely a mile apart that were never connected?

@BuggleskellyStation 2 ай бұрын

So you're saying that Hornby first radius set track is prototypical after all...? 😂

@TheStickCollector 2 ай бұрын

Shame you can can't go there anymore. It would be neat if there was a narrow gauge railway that could take that short of a distance/long of a curve

@mattnwill3 2 ай бұрын

Nice video, although it's not quite the most absurd double line, double station case I've heard of. There's the two stations in Canterbury, Canterbury East on the Chatham Mainline and Canterbury West on the Ashford-Ramsgate Line. They're both two track lines in relatively frequent use and literally cross over each other, but have no connection even though historically there were two more railways, one of which had to have crossed both lines. Even the station names are misnomers, both stations are within a couple feet of each other in terms of an east-west line, just half a mile separated north-south.

@beeble2003 2 ай бұрын

I'm not seeing anything absurd about this situation (except calling the north and south stations "east" and "west"). Nobody needs to take a train between two places that are ten minutes' walk apart. And there's no operational reason to connect the lines. Because the two lines cross at an acute angle, the only connections that could be added easily are to allow trains to go Ashford-Canterbury-Dover or Faversham-Canterbury-Ramsgate. But both of those are already possible without going via Canterbury.

@mattnwill3 2 ай бұрын

@@beeble2003 Actually the two lines go in different directions at different speeds, with Canterbury West connecting to HS1 but going south-west to north-east, and Canterbury East having more direct routing going south-east to north-west. If you wanted to go from Ashford to the Medway via train than you'd have to walk between them. And the history is just as important, with one of the former lines that serviced Canterbury West being among the earliest passenger railways.

@lordsjaak 2 ай бұрын

i hope that it filmed in the summer, because i was worried when the raining was so hard for you and hoping not getting a cold to yourself? because you did say that your battery was low due enough working on the videos and need sometimes a break. so i was worried on it

@edwardshirley9314 Ай бұрын

What was the minimum radius of this curve please?

@richardsweeney197 2 ай бұрын

I love this rpund about little tale. But for some reason going six miles to go 1.5 miles sounds so much like a business decision!!

@HJPorschen 2 ай бұрын

Absolutely logical layout of tracks. On second thought: was it really? Maybe there would have been an easier solution. But that would have been boring (and not worthwhile making a video about it).

@IronHorseRailways 2 ай бұрын

The conversation on that day must have gone something like: Residents: "Please connect our stations!" Railway: "No.." Residents: "Oh, please?" Railway: "Ugh... Fine.." **Builds loop** Railway: "You peasants aren't allowed to use it, kthxbye"

@beeble2003 2 ай бұрын

I suspect it actually went something like: Residents: "Actually, it's just quicker to walk 20 minutes than wait for a train." Railway: "That's what we thought, too."

@TheCebulon 2 ай бұрын

The new caption “tightest curve” made me watch this. The one before, not. Interesting.

@jvmalta081 2 ай бұрын

hello from Malta :)

@mxh5647 2 ай бұрын

Fascinating video. Interesting history. Could have done without the flashy zoomy bit at the end. It got my brain going wonky. I think it might have been useful but I couldn't watch at that point.