Two Vintage speakers Ls35a (£1000 + used ) KEF Coda (£300+ used )

Here I compare rogers ls35a( £1000+ used )
KEF coda (£300+ used)
with same drive units .
what's the sound difference ?
I used variety of amplifiers Naim power amp Croft pre amp plus
Vintage Sansui 331
from thorens 150 with sme arm ortophon blue cartridge.
Patreon link
patreon.com/StereoreviewX

[@josefserf1926]

The LS3/5 is the ultimate testimony to the fact that the midrange remains king.

[@analoglooney]

Just as well as it doesn't really do much else, but then again it was designed as a speech monitor.

[@Munakas-wq3gp]

It's funny how the old designs tried to use dampening materials on the side of the tweeters instead of using waveguides like modern designs do...

[@analoglooney]

@@Munakas-wq3gp The felt was there on the 3/5a to stop refraction when the grill is in place. It is quite critical to the sound. The BBC guys knew a trick or two.

[@Munakas-wq3gp]

@@analoglooney Yes but they were really not able to understand the meaning of the power response for the entire speaker. The felt helped a little but a waveguide would have solved the fundamental issue of radiation control...

[@analoglooney]

@@Munakas-wq3gp That's just speculation. Waveguides come with their own set of nightmares. Remember that the money spent to develop this speaker was huge. Waveguides are nothing new, Tannoy were using them in their Dual Concentrics back in the 40's. The pepperpot waveguide made Tannoy famous.

[@Funkywallot]

My biggest stroke of luck while hunting second hand vintage gear : I bought a pair of mint LS35a in a very remote and obscure Antique shop 5 years ago. For 40€ . I nearly missed them ,they were hiding in a shelf half hidden by bronze statues. Im not kidding , i just stared with wide open eyes on the pricetag and I felt a rush in my head . The owner of the establishment clearly dident know what nuggets he had in his shop. I sold them later for 750 € to a guy who thought he made a bargain . 😁 They are very comfy and organic speakers but not exactly what I want so it was easy to let them go to the right person who appreciate it for what its was.

[@analoglooney]

I love it when that happens. I picked up a pair of Tannoy Chatsworth's with 12" monitor reds for £50 in the local paper being sold as 'old, tatty tannoys' some 20 years ago. I built better cabinets and still use them today. It only happens once. 🙏

[@Salmonandfriends]

the dream!

[@stephenfurley1025]

The LS3/5As were designed for monitoring BBC outside broadcasts, when they were used in their broadcast vans.

[@Munakas-wq3gp]

Yes, they were a chosen compromise. Good enough to monitor a male voice, that's it :)

[@matthewtaylor7355]

I've never heard that before.... U often see cheese in sandwiches

[@adrianrainbow4106]

@@Munakas-wq3gp A rich female voice is a much better reference for monitoring.

[@Munakas-wq3gp]

@@adrianrainbow4106 The BBC speaker was intended for male commentators, which was the norm back then.

[@jakedavila4468]

Always learning something from this gentleman . Always feel better educated on vintage gear.

[@GrandWazoo101]

The ls3/5a cabinet is, I believe, veneered baltic plywood

[@peterlarkin762]

Yep, all original licenced variants were birch ply. They made really good thick wood veneers back then too!

[@jim586]

Yeah, plywood. The idea was that cabinet wasn’t braced and contributed to its sound.

[@stereoreviewx]

yes I think so

[@mikeknowles5848]

My LS35/a's give great bass, no other speaker I've heard does an orchestral bass drum as convincingly. The secret is to get them as isolated from vibration as possible, so that all the bass from the speaker resolves. It also helps using a decently powered tube amp.

[@TonyCottrell-iv2qv]

My Dad bought a pair of LS3/5as in the 1970s, and he gave them to me about 25 years ago. At the time I had a pair of Heybrook HB3s and I was always tweaking my system. With the LS3/5as I started listening to the music. 25 years later, having tried plenty of other speakers I am back with the LS3/5as . I never get tired of them. I understand why some people don't like them or think they are overpriced but if mine were stolen I would happily buy another pair even at their high price.

[@analoglooney]

I really liked the HB3. One of my favorites at the time.

[@TonyCottrell-iv2qv]

@@analoglooney Yes, don't get me wrong, I liked the HB3s as well. I'd love another pair. Just that the LS3/5as hooked me like no other!

[@analoglooney]

@@TonyCottrell-iv2qv LOL. Try some Quad 57's. You'll never go to bed. Damned things keep you up all night. Truly hypnotic. 👍

[@TonyCottrell-iv2qv]

@@analoglooney Last thing I need is another rabbit hole to go down...

[@omdwillieturnip8840]

"There's more talk about this than the pyramids of giza" brilliant 😆. Nice video. Funny timing having just bought a pair of ls3/5a's and been vaguely looking at coda's too. Thanks for sharing.

[@ricardomartins1081]

Another fun video! Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[@ianstreeter5291]

Kelvin you have a great way of explaining the sound of speakers 😊

[@stereoreviewx]

Thanks

[@stephenwintle4314]

They were originally designed as a ‘near field speech monitor’ for outside broadcast vans. 👍

[@peterlarkin762]

Yep, designed for a tiny area. Also made to be positioned against a wall - they extend a little more bass that way.

[@AndrewDCDrummond]

Not just for speech but for full range… And not just for OB vans but for any compromised space

[@geertwijma8178]

The b110 white belly thing is a fallacy. It is just the pva coating coming loose from the cone. This gives a huge peak around 1 khz. Swap them out asap with new ones and enjoy them even more.

[@stereoreviewx]

yes I do have spare b110 s

[@ianabell8832]

Replace them with aFalcon Acoutsice FB110 matched pair of drivers

[@gaborozorai3714]

LS3/5a's were designed for monitoring in broadcast vans and small studios, so even 6-7 feet of distance is overdoing it. At 4-5 feet, placed wide enough and toed in they open up and do space really well. And I don't even have originals just Chinese clones :)

[@jonboy9912]

Missed you when you packed up appreciate your insight and common sense on a subject full of B/S by many!

[@stereoreviewx]

More to come!

[@analoglooney]

Hi Kelvin. The metal mesh grill on the t27 is actually a Celestion part used on the HF2000 tweeter. It increases dispersion and corrects phase. The cabinet is baltic ply on the 3/5a. I always preferred the Coda years ago and was shocked when I heard Michael Jackson's 'Bad' played through them. The really sounded very good. I found the 3/5a boring and lacking in scale. A decent REL subwoofer helps a great deal though. My brother bought the KEF 101's and still uses them on a Cyrus 2 amplifier with a Jim Rogers cylindrical subwoofer. Excellent video thanks.

[@stereoreviewx]

Thanks for that I can imagine with nicely produced stuff like Michael Jackson the coda sound good K

[@analoglooney]

@@stereoreviewx 🙂👍

[@barrybrennan2135]

Love my Ls35a. No speaker is perfect, and of course bass is limited, but every day of the week I'll take limited bass over bass bloat, etc. The brain fills in the gaps too. If your step is relatively near-field, it's just a case of plonking them on stands and listening to music - I love that about them.

[@matanavgust8404]

Great !! Like always I am enjoy and learn Tnx again

[@Ricky-cl5bu]

The voice is nice on the ls3/5a

[@RADCOMJ1]

I love your reviews...you deliver a subtle kick in the nutz to snooty audiophiles😊😂.

[@stereoreviewx]

I try

[@halpearson4226]

When one of my £££ studio monitors died, I switched to using KEF Chorale II, which I had in storage... and kind of preferred them. They have the same T27 and (if memory serves) B200 (which is not as nice, but no dog). Can still be bought for a song.

[@stereoreviewx]

I compared kef chorale to kef ls50 and guess what chorale please

[@LucasRichardStephens]

I read an anecdote by one of the BBC designers of those Ls35a speakers, that they had a live orchestra to make sound comparisons during the testing and tweaking, don't remember which. I have some Chartwell pm210 that I picked up for peanuts, after the insight gained watching your great channel, very much obliged, they have the larger size box, I think you would love them.

[@Evolved_ue7]

So many speakers miss out on the importance of the midrange.. Add a musical sub to most small monitors and you have good sound .

[@georgeheatherley3548]

Great video! Thanks

[@johndough8115]

Btw - If you wanted to increase the bass levels... without distorting the musical output much... you could install some weight-tuned Passive Radiators. Some of the most insane bass that Ive ever heard from a tiny 6.5" drivers... came from the Phillips Woox mini-systems. The woox is a unique passive radiator system, that has dual expansion rings, and dual passives separated by an inch of space (look at photos of them removed from the speakers, to better understand). The woox systems also used a special woofer, that had more Excursion than most typical woofers... thus helping to prevent Distortions from driving the woofers too far (over-excursion). A Lot of sealed 70s era Speakers, started adding passive radiators in their designs... to help complete with the louder and bassier sounding Ported speakers, in the 80s. It was a decent compromise, and does not distort the bass sounds, like Ports do. The only drawback to using passives, is that they dont really produce much added bass... until you drive them at medium to high volume levels. To get around this issue... Phillips had build an Electronic EQ TOGGLE into their mini systems (boom boxes). This Toggle boosted the Bass levels using EQ... and thus, could excite the Passives at much lower volume levels. Of course, to get the most potential performance out of your speakers.. I personally always recommend using an EQ. At minimal, use a software EQ via your computer (I use my PC, software EQ, and directly output analog sound to my old 5.1 Surround Sound amp). Way too many Audiophiles, refuse to use EQ.. because they feel its coloring the sound too much. However, most every speaker is already coloring the sounds. Also, many TUBE amps that audiophile use.. most certainly are coloring the sound... making the Anti-EQ argument, completely hypocritical. Thing is... you probably could replicate these expensive Tube Amp's colorizations, using a cheap EQ, and very little fiddling.

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

THANKS KELVIN 🤗 FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERIENCE 💚💚💚

[@TheRealWindlePoons]

I like the LS3/5A. They are one of the most consistent speakers I have heard and are fully deserving of the name "monitor", albeit in the near-field. I have never owned a pair as I prefer something more capable of filling my room with sound. I definitely prefer bookshelf and stand-mounting speakers with a sealed box, I never liked anything I've heard with a reflex port. For bigger speakers with ports I prefer a transmission line or triangular quarter-wave pipe. Both designs to my ears sound "natural" or "effortless". I never rule out vintage designs and my favourite for the last 20 years has been a pair of Lowther Acousta 115s. I have a later (1970-73) pair with a plywood carcass and chipboard horn panels. While smaller than many horns, they are still big speakers. I would describe them as "unflatteringly transparent" in the same manner as Quad electrostatics. The Lowthers certainly drive the room well and with a decent signal they absolutely sing. As ever with HiFi, your mileage may vary...

[@-triumphgt667]

I have a pair of Richard Allan LS3/5As with the AB1 woofers on which they stand. Excellent at the human voice - I use mine with a 60s Beolab 5000 amplifier and what is essentially a Thorens 124 Mk2 turntable with a bespoke 12" B&O arm (Beogram 3000). Sounds fantastic but these days hardy use it. Ears not what they were and streamed music simply easier. Going to lend them to a friend! The AB1s change the sound balance so there is more in the way of bass - uses a separate B110 driver in a ported enclosure. The speakers can be bi-wired though I don't use that facility.

[@oscarfalize]

If you can. listen to the Falcon acoustic ls3/5a gold batch. they will blow you away. Pair them with a Rel sub and you are set.

[@WyreForestBiker]

The LS 35a is exhibit No1 for the prosecution in the audiophile insanity trial 😊

[@stereoreviewx]

its a capitol offence

[@socksumi]

The LS3/5A cabinet is made of birch ply with choice of veneer. The inside has bituminous panels that cover every wall plus 3/8 inch dowels that brace every inside edge and most I believe used lambs wool for insulation. Back in 1980 I actually built a pair to spec as best I could. But I was never able to find the tweeter screens which are widely available now. The screens along with the crossover help smooth the T27's peaks in the 8 to 10 khz range. Some prefer the tweeter naked at it sounds less smooth but more immediate and the naked T27 also goes higher to above 25 khz where as the screen rolls off the highs somewhat but nothing you or I would hear at our age.

[@stereoreviewx]

fascinating about the screens K

[@careystuart]

I have a pair of MBL 323's and they have removable metal screens on the tweeters, the magnet holds them in place. I have tried them both ways and they seem brighter without them.

[@mawin5899]

Linn Sara is a small 2-way speaker which does do bass

[@adrianrainbow4106]

Thanks dude, I always wondered why the Ls3's were more revered. What're your thoughts on the TEAC LS100u, I'm guessing they have the same drivers rebadged. I have two pairs, and they're great pocket speakers.

[@stefpichette7742]

I love my kef chorale in a correllie box in nearfield they have the 8 inch woofer more base

[@johnlindsay3820]

Leaving all the bull***t aside, the LS3 5A’s are something special. I’ve had numerous speakers over the years from modest to ridiculous - however the 35A’s are lifers. With the right amplifiers they are magic. It’s not all about the bass - it’s all about the midrange!

[@stereoreviewx]

In agreement, my friend

[@analoglooney]

They sound glorious on Quad ii valve amps. 15 ohm version. A match made in heaven.

[@johnlindsay3820]

Yep I’ve got a set of unison simply four with an old matched set of (blue!) el34’s. - 25 watts or so of valves, and for near field listening with female vocals in particular or simple jazz there is something special about them.

[@benpatana7664]

I believe Rogers manufactures a subwoofer, which doubles as a stand, that can be used with the LS35/As. I presume that would enable the speaker to be used in a slightly larger area? Wouldn't be the genuine, original BBC recipe though!

[@kobush18]

Interesting 👍

[@frankgeeraerts6243]

I like the RR101.............people won't believe what these small things can do .......

[@peterlarkin762]

Ported speakers got a bit better in recent years since with the advent of down-firing ports. Having said that, they're really just emulating what a larger box or driver is supposed to be doing (transmission line aside). Sealed boxed always sound more musical to me and all you need is a separate subwoofer to get best of both worlds. Fun fact: Falcon Acoustics also have a BBC license and sell NEW B110 and T27 drivers so you can always repair vintage ones!

[@chrisblock6697]

Yes, I've had to contact Falcon and now have an "extra" pair of B110's and T27's (I blew a B110, but was able to repair it). Graham does make a subwoofer they say is designed to work with the LS3/5 and LS3/5a.

[@peterlarkin762]

@@chrisblock6697 They won't making them forever (made in UK) so it's a good investment!

[@janinapalmer8368]

These two speakers were designed for good old analogue stuff.... my dad destroyed the B110's in his Codas the first time he ran them with a CD player ! The BBC LS3/5a had a response curve as flat as a mill pond with a -6dB/octave fall off at the -3dB point at 50Hz ... waterfall plots were quite good considering but group delay was not good at all ... however overall phase response was good with only two scrolling points

[@stereoreviewx]

thanks k

[@AndrewNeilBaird]

I have a pair of codas , lined with bitumen pads , using falcon gold x-overs and top quality binding posts/wiring . In my opinion , makes ls3/5a sound base-less . The Coda is now a speaker to enjoy music in a small room, for around £800 all in , not a metal box van sound mixer .

[@stereoreviewx]

I would agree codas would fill a room better

[@AndrewNeilBaird]

@@stereoreviewx I had to make the front panel removable, so 2 hours with the multi tool , some batons and 12mm ply I could fit the crossover's to the rear panel as they don't fit through the bass unit hole . Tried a port but didn't like it , better sealed , very tight and jazz can be really superb .

[@goydivision5311]

Got a feeling that's Kevin's art on the wall.

[@peterlarkin762]

I think he mentioned that in a video ages ago, hadn't seen it on camera in a while. It's pretty good!

[@bigblueocean]

It's Kelvin!

[@Plekteret04]

I did by mine LS3 5/A speakers in 1978, and I still have these in my livingroom. It not connected right now. I dont now if the rubber surround is fresh right now. Have to know fist. If I must replace the surround rings, I have to get the right one. I also have the cellesion 3 too. The box has exact same sice. It sounds good too. Another rare vintage speaker I have, is the AR MST I did bye in 1974. Im also an collector of JBL vintage speaker, I enjoy to listen to. Want to build a JBL L45 clone(super L100), because is't the most rare JBL to find for sale. Greeting from Norway.

[@stereoreviewx]

greetings from London one day will to reforming video

[@joeyjustin6895]

HELLO BUD. I'm A Tad Behind On Vids. I Apologize I ALWAYS Want To Promote You As We Always Need Great HI fi People Like You And You Are One Of The Best. It's April 22nd and I'm watching Your latest 3 vids ALL IN A Row We Love Your Reviews And We Need Them Thanks For Every Review You DO For Us . Thanks

[@PharaoRamsesII]

Thanks for explaining that in such detail. I have the KEF Coda's that I bought for 35€. The veneer was badly damaged and I tried to paint them - which I failed with, since it's MDF underneath. Any tips to make them nice again? Maybe some foil? I am probably not gonna succeed in veneering them

[@rich.e]

A mate had LS3/5a + the matching subs some time back... hard to really fault the sound... very 'nice', well-rounded sound and very middle of the pack in all areas. Perhaps not really an all-out rocker but never an unpleasant listen.

[@stereoreviewx]

agreed

[@andygee8716]

The Meridian M3, and M2 utelise those drive units, too.

[@stevezeidman7224]

I had a chance to trade for the Chinese version of these a few years ago. I went for them and set them up in a small listening room. I wanted to hear the magic but it never made it to the speakers. It was pure midrange and not much more. I ended up trading them for something else.

[@stereoreviewx]

interesting K

[@matthewtaylor7355]

If the had been 2000GBP UK badge speakers would u have been so quick to dis em

[@sonhouse9636]

Hello and thanks, I love the vintage hiFi. There's a chinese copy of the Rogers, I wonder how they sound, did you try them ?

[@AndrewDCDrummond]

The prototype LS3/5as had thinner (9mm) birch panels that were more in line with the BBCs ‘lossy’ cabinet philosophy, but they got the 12mm cabinets for production as they made for a more robust speaker. I think the B110s SP1003 drivers work much better in the thinner cabinet and much better in the JR149, in the 12mm cabinet I have always thought the 15ohm LS3/5a sounds slow in the bass and is unusable for a lot of modern music. Also just about all old 15ohm LS3/5as will have a nasty peak that has developed at 1khz, unless someone has made adjustments in the crossover. I’ve always preferred the 11ohm version, although these have subjectively less bass, but I used them with Roger’s AB-1s as soon as they came out, and then later Stirling Broadcasts AB-2s, which are slightly larger and work better. I also added the Cicable external crossovers which make a huge difference in reducing the THD and improving the transparency, so they are more like a grade 1 monitor (apart from the bass) than a grade 2 monitor. Nowadays I mostly use the V3 version of the Stirling Broadcast LS3/5a which is similar to the Cicable 11ohm version in openness and transparency (it’s crossover is so much bigger it has to be mounted on the back panel rather than just behind the tweeter) but with far better bass handling and extension, even without the AB-2.

[@stereoreviewx]

great info thanks K

[@Stelios.Posantzis]

1:33 My guess is it probably lowers the output a tad. I don't think it affects dispersion

[@stereoreviewx]

im gonna try it

[@andygee8716]

Acoustic Energy AE1, Linn Kan, JBL Control 1, Yamaha NS10... Infamous near field studio monitors, each with their strengths and weaknesses. The AE1 had huge power handling and an accurate sound stage but required a great amp to get the best from them. The Linn Kan was an amazing apeaker but was a difficult load to drive. The JBL's were built like tanks: bottle proof in fact and were used in many an outside broadcast van; cheap too but nothing really special. The infamous Yamaha NS10 : spoken about in pro audio circles just as much as the Rogers LS 3/5 A,s were, but for completely different reasons. It was said that if you could mix a track on a set of NS10's and make it sound good, it would sound good on anything else, hence their wide studio appeal. The LS3/5A was a different animal. That liquid midrange that they possess is to die for. Unlike the NS10, they were also easy on the ear to listen to for extended periods in a studio or O.B. truck. All of these monitors have since been domesticated, however I know which one I would live with. Thanks again, Kelvin. On form as always.

[@stereoreviewx]

Thanks for that

[@Nutz0]

the rogers were never a big thing on this side of the pond. i don't think they got good distribution. i'd be very interested to hear them. a near field monitor with life. probably be great for my small apartment. about the ns10s... nobody here liked them but they were in every studio. as you said, if it sounded good on 'em, it was good. that's what you want for mixing but not at home. these days, genelec is the king. flat freq response and very revealing. never lose their composure. but... no life to speak of. never want those in my living room.

[@andygee8716]

@@Nutz0 I use both Genelec and Dynaudio NFM's. The Gennys you can listen to all day and are a permanent fixture in my studio. The Dynauds are in my living room. Dynamics, scale, precision and the most incredible treble I've heard in decades; crisp but not harsh, with an ultra smooth extension. Lovely bass for their size, too, however, I use a REL subwoofer for the extreme lows.

[@andygee8716]

@@Nutz0 The Rogers are very Programme dependent. They were conceived as vocal monitors for commentary, plays, talk shows and debates, also mounted in trucks for outside broadcasts purposes. They excel with folk, light jazz trios and quartets, chamber and of course spoken word. They don't do metal, drum n bass, dubstep, EDM, or anything else that requires huge dB and scale. Rogers invented the LS7 and LS9 as "rock monitors", to deal with that type of stuff.

[@Nutz0]

@@andygee8716 thanks for the reply. I should have clarified. I am a broadcast video editor. I mostly do down and dirty mixes for news. I'm staring at a pair of genelecs in my edit bay right now. They're great monitors and yes not fatiguing at all. In the old days, I worked on commercials where more attention is paid to the audio. At home, I have my old canton plus s with the matching sub setup and an nad Amp. Not great but good enough for an NYC apt. I find them warm and more engaging than monitors while still being tonally accurate.

[@scottguthrie3322]

Here 50 miles west of Toronto, it's difficult to find either of these speaker models, and if you do, the LS3/5A is $3500-$4800 or the Kef is sold immediately. However bextrene B&W models do show up on occasion at reasonable prices. I'm thinking the DM-12 and DM-17. I prefer the tweeter in the 12 over the 17, slightly more extended. The mids and highs are quite smooth. Maybe not creamy, but close. Would you be able to do a review of the DM12 (or DM17) if you get a chance? Would love to know how either one compares to the LS3/5A. I found a pair of 12s that were externally beaten, but still sound excellent. I'm thinking of putting the cosmetic work into them. Thanks Kelvin for your efforts.

[@APT79]

Black velvet if you please.

[@Stelios.Posantzis]

7:39 KEF Cresta and Concerto too (but not the 104 which has the B200 instead of the B110).

[@stereoreviewx]

yep

[@Stelios.Posantzis]

If you think about it, at this day and age, 300GBP is already a lot for a KEF Coda. One could in theory upgrade it by using e.g. plywood instead of chipboard or a better crossover but then the cost will rise quickly to reach LS3/5 (or JR149 levels) although the result might be debatable. Better off buying a JR149 to begin with, which at least will retain its stylistic value. I bet some would buy the Codas to use as parts for LS3/5s. In any case, given the amount of great speakers that have come since the LS3/5s and Codas' inception, the choices are endless, so why would one restrict oneself to old fashioned speakers (unless one craves after their historic and collection value)?

[@theoriginaldanalogue]

I believe the metal grill could have an effect on sound dispersion. Gold label/badge FYI is down to the crossover unit. I recently heard the Falcon gold badge and A/B’d them against other ones and they were a clear step ahead. I think it just means that they are as close to the original design as possible. They sounded unbelievably good. Thanks for the demo.

[@stereoreviewx]

oh no you got me going now

[@rabit818]

Add a subwoofer? A passive subwoofer might match these vintage speakers?

[@Drackleyrva]

Great video! How are the Ls35As with subwoofers?

[@AndrewDCDrummond]

The SVS 3000 Micro works well apparently, Google for a user review of using it with the Stirling broadcast v3 ls3/5a.

[@TallGermanBoy]

At 6:47 you say "If you look at the cross over on this, it's a me... very complex crossover" 😂😂😂 when we look at that board "a mess" is what we all think of, hahah. Funny how Bose gets so much flack for having these overly complicated crossovers that "dampen the sound" nowadays

[@jimdavis5230]

The problems with ported reflex designs has largely been solved by Dr Paul Mills by employing dual chamber bass reflex. Such designs as the Tannoy XT8F and the Fyne Audio F502 employ dual chamber bass reflex and produce extremely tight controlled bass.

[@johndough8115]

Ported speakers always sound inferior / artificial, compared to sealed speakers. Way too many people, do not even know what "Real Bass" is supposed to sound like anymore... as they have consumed exaggerated "fake bass" all of their lives. When you hear what bass is supposed to sound like, you can never go back to ported speakers, nor the use of Subs (in music).

[@jimdavis5230]

@@johndough8115 Have you listened to dual chamber bass reflex speakers? I assume you haven't due to your opinions.

[@johndough8115]

​@@jimdavis5230 Dude, you are likely the kind of person to Praise BOSE speakers... thinking that they are Audiophile grade speakers. Your opinions really dont count for anything. Ive taken a look at those designs... and all it seems to solve, is the likely reduction of Port-Noise (Chuffing). Its still operating on the same exact principles of Tuned Ports. Its creating an Artificial Sounding Bass sound, based on how much air movement there is, from the woofer. The bass ports produce, is very "Droning" locked to a set frequency. Its not "Musically Accurate" bass. I used to own a pair of Techniques 12 inch 3 way, Ported speakers... that were rated at 200 watts each (90s era). But when I picked up a pair of 70s era EPI 100v SEALED speakers... which were ony 8 inch, 2-ways... I put the Techniques on the Curb, the very next day. The EPI cabinets, were almost half the size of the techs.. AND, despite having a much smaller woofer... were putting out MUCH more powerful, punchy, and DEEPER bass. But it wasnt just that... The bass I was hearing, was completely different, from what I was using to hearing from ANY ported speakers. It was far more Luscious, Buttery Smooth, Musical in RANGE.. rather than Monotone "Droning". I almost Cried... and I got so ANGERED at how much I felt ROBBED of such an experience... for most of my life. Now... the EPIs couldnt quite blast as Loud as the Techs... but, the sound was 1000x better... to the point that I didnt need them to be as loud. The thing is... I felt compelled to try to Crank the techs... to TRY to give it some more dynamics. But ultimately, even at louder volumes, it still want that good. The bass was muddied, slow, chuffy, droning. And the mids and highs were nothing to make note about (Just "Adequate"). Where as the EPIs inverted tweeters, create a 3D Holographic Soundstage, that almost makes the entire room, a "Sweet Spot". Its out of this world. The speakers themselves... sort of Vanish. Meaning, its almost as if the sounds materialized into the air... without a Source. You could blindfold someone... spin them around, and they wouldnt be able to find them. Ports, Transmission Lines, and Horns... are all just Manipulations of the Air. All of this tech, comes at the cost of Audiophile grade Musical Accuracy. Distortions of the intended 3d spatial image. Distortions of the Intended Bass sounds. Over-Exaggerated artificial bass. And other issues. Now, before I got my own EPI's... I tried an experiment, with some small speaker drivers, building some small Satellite's. Im not an engineer... so I merely placed 3 oversized wood panels in a box shape, and moved them, until the sound was Great. I then glued them together, and wired the speakers up. At that time, I tested them without a back panel.. making them a sort of Open-Baffle speaker (before I even knew that was a thing). They sounded fantastic... SO.. I built the rear panel, and sealed them completely up... but then... they didnt sound anywhere near as good! The open rear wasnt really a port... as it was like 7" tall x 4" wide. And, these small 3 or 4" woofers, were not really moving much air to begin with... so it wouldnt even factor in much. I also experimented, trying to seal the port on my Techs. However, that also failed too. I would later learn the reasons... such as the Techs low magnetic powered ECO-WOOFERS, being way too underpowered for a Sealed Cabinet design. When I got the EPIs, I opened them up, to see why they there were so much better. The woofers may have been smaller than the Techs... but the Magnets on the EPIs were like 2x the size and mass. In fact, One EPI woofer, probably weighed more than 2 of the Tech woofers combined. The Techs, used ECO tricks, to make them sound "louder" and have more bass than those low powered drivers should have been able to produce on their own. However... it came at the HUGE expense, of Musical Quality / Accuracy. The only speaker that ever came close to the EPIs level of musical non-distorting bass.. was some Phillips Woox speakers, which have some very "Unique" Passive Radiators on them (2 passives, spaced an inch apart, stacked on top of each other... and each having Dual-Expansion Rings). However, the Phillips speakers still couldnt fully compete in the total Musical Accuracy.. and was FAR worse in the high frequency drivers + soundstage image. The woox did however, massively Bump the bass levels to a more "Exciting" level... good for Techno, R&B, Rap type of music. Even more than both my Techs and the EPIs. But, I still preferred the EPIs over the woox speakers... in most cases. There was more than enough bass with the EPIs... especially if you used some EQ, to give it a little help.

[@johndough8115]

Sealed Speakers are FAR more Musically Accurate. In order to deal with the higher air pressures, is seems that sealed speakers use woofers that have much stronger magnets, and stronger voice coils. The return spider, however, is much weaker... thus less resistance... as the drivers rely more on the air pressure to center them... The stronger the drivers magnetics... the more power they require to drive them... and the less efficient and overall "Loud" they can get. However, the stronger magnetics can Accelerate, stop and reverse the cone, MUCH faster than a weaker magnetic woofer. Its like a Racing Car, vs an Economy car. The race car can outperform the economy car, in every metric. While the most demanding music can be duplicated near flawlessly on the Sports-Car version of the drivers... the Economy drivers... have trouble at times... keeping up with the demands... and as such, create some micro-distortions in the musical output. This distortion wont be enough to make the songs sound bad. However, it will muddy some of the details, and "Separation" of each instrument / voice. Lyrics, of a singer.. for example... may be hard / impossible to understand... because they are being partially distorted with the Instruments in the background. When you have superior drivers... the speaker can keep the instruments and vocals completely separate... and vividly crystal. The projected image can become almost Holographically 3D, and the speakers themselves seem to Vanish into thin air... as if the sounds are just popping into the middle of the air.. without an actual Origin / Source. Its pure Magic, when you finally experience such speakers... and you can never go back to inferior speakers, once you have such an experience. Metal cover for Tweeters, will definitely reduce the Energy, width and depth of the Soundfield.. as well as likely distort some of the details a bit. Ive read a few of the comments, about them reducing some of the Bite away... making them a bit less harsh, and a bit more smooth. There are many superior tweeters, that are not harsh... but still maintain extremely crisp details, AND... also Spread the image very deep and wide. Id guess that the placement of the tweeters surrounded by that internal "box-frame" ...also greatly limits the spread of the tweeters projected image... as some of the spread is going to be hitting that frames walls, rather than spreading out further into the room. The thicker wood being used for the box, should produce greater Rigidity, limiting distortions from both sound leaking and non-desired driver movements (from cabinet flexing / vibrations). Of course, it also depends on the cabinets inner bracing, too. This is more of a factor, with larger boxer... as smaller boxers are going to be more rigid overall. The larger the box... the deeper the bass "potentials". However, if you are using low quality (weak) eco-drivers in that large box... a smaller box with superior magnetic strength drivers, can still produce superior depth and detail, in bass Im not an electronics expert... but I have no idea why they would need such a complex crossover... with a 2-way speaker. I can only imagine, that there is a lot of tweaking of the frequencies, to prevent distortions, due to the drivers measured distortions. If the drivers were Built with better accuracy, and potentially stiffer materials... it may not have needed so many crossover "EQ tweaks". There also might be some electronic "Protection" mechanisms in that crossover... to help prevent bass levels that are too heavy... from distorting the output (from over-excursion). There likely is some crossover to roll off the highest and harshest of sounds to the tweeters, too.

[@ianbigsand7]

It's interesting to see the Coda. My first speakers were KEF Coda2, in hindsight they were absolutely crap. I have had a pair of LS3/5a for many a long year and there is no comparison. I can only imagine that KEF went so down market just to cash in on idiot students like I was.

[@analoglooney]

They weren't a bad budget speaker. They had to compete with the budget offerings from B&W and Tannoy. Very good seller in their day.

[@stereoreviewx]

kef used the coda name so many times

[@TechnoAssassin-vx6zf]

Sealed boxes have much better transient response and less overhang in the bass than ported monitors. i love a sealed box…...

[@stereoreviewx]

I meant to say that

[@elfonzo4298]

These speaker are good pair with early Musical Fidelity A1? Or which are better with A1?

[@geraldmcmullon2465]

I was never impressed by the LS3/5A because of the lack of bass and not "filling" a large lounge. For similar price (1978/80 of £189) I got JR149. Later I found that the Kef 101 was more forgiving with lower powered amplifiers. The JR149 really need 60-100W amps. I later bought the JR149 Mk II with the low pass amp and super woofer for my parents' hi-fi system with a Meridian MCA amplifier. Today it will cost more to get a Rogers LS3/5A than a JR149. The new price of £2750 is hard to justify as there are many alternative near field monitors that offer more. I sold off my three pairs of JR149 for around £300 a pair (2014) to get three way floor standing active speakers for the same money. Now JR149 are seen with an asking price of £500-900 but can be had for £350-460. .

[@chrisblock6697]

By "Gold Labeled", you might mean the Falcon Gold Badge Edition? My understanding is it has better crossover components, but anybody correct me if I'm wrong.

[@analoglooney]

That's what they say, but surely it has to measure and sound like an original 3/5a. I would have thought that introducing 'better' capacitors would change the sound out of spec. The idea originally was that you could grab any two 3/5a's, even years apart, and they would sound the same and could be used as a pair.

[@stereoreviewx]

the gold label is old I believe in sold items on e bay £4000 ???

[@chrisblock6697]

⁠@@analoglooneyMaybe the same sound thing only applies to those in trucks outside of concert halls?

[@analoglooney]

@@chrisblock6697 Very possibly yes. 🙂

[@TechnoAssassin-vx6zf]

the bbc were mainly a news/info broadcast company back then, so they were probably focused on voice production and not too worried about bass in music……i mean there was no bass in songs back then anyway to worry about 🤣

[@analoglooney]

That's true! I think people forget that the bass was curtailed so the BSR ceramic cartridges of the day would stay in the groove.

[@stereoreviewx]

interesting

[@TechnoAssassin-vx6zf]

@@analoglooney vinyl mastering had to limit the bass range to stop the needle jumping out of the groove 🤣

[@analoglooney]

@@TechnoAssassin-vx6zf Just so. I think audiophiles forget that most people were not playing vinyl with a Shure V15 supertrack.

[@TechnoAssassin-vx6zf]

@@analoglooney ah you got me there lol.....im actually coming from a music production angle, and grew up dj'ing on vinyl, technics 1200/10's and now into studio audiophilic (just made that word up lol) world, but very similar In that audiophile sense. have the hedd type 20 mk2's at the moment, always used as closed ported (obvs lmao) and I am very sensitive to tweeters......the ribbons on them I can listen for hours with minimal ear fatigue

[@EddyTeetree]

Such an old design the BBC speaker. Surely its been surpassed?😮

[@analoglooney]

Not really. It was designed to be accurate and had a huge budget. Most modern speakers are not as accurate and will never have the budget the ls3/5a enjoyed to develop it. . The Quad esl57 has yet to be bettered apart from SPL's, along with the original alnico Tannoy Monitor series. Those guys were real engineers. Nowadays it's all computer designed and I doubt they even bother listening to it judging by what I've heard.

[@stereoreviewx]

sounds right K

[@Stelios.Posantzis]

0:38 I really have no idea why this except that it is the same effect as when journalists want to turn nothing into a great issue so they keep talking about it and then other journalists think they better talk about it because if the first journalists talk about it so much, then it has to be something and so on... Moral of the story: just because people are talking about it, it doesn't mean it's worth bothering...

[@analoglooney]

I agree. A certain turntable ended up being iconic for exactly those reasons...Journalists just parroting each other.

[@stereoreviewx]

yeah trick is which ones are legit and which one content fillers. I really don't like the kef ls50 and you get a ton of flack for saying that I can tell you K

[@Stelios.Posantzis]

There are a couple of sites that contain the BBC archive's material related to acoustics, audio electronics, loudspeaker designs etc. These contain more than enough in order to form an informed opinion on many BBC speakers, including. the ls3/5. That's a ton more than you get with any other speaker on the market. if you have the time to read all that material of course

[@analoglooney]

@@stereoreviewx Not from me you won't Kelvin. I was really excited when the LS50 arrived on the scene. I borrowed a pair from a local dealer and I thought they sucked! 👍

[@AlexMitchell-sj4sb]

Feel like I have learnt something here rather than be lectured to (not mentioning any channels)

[@itisjustacomment]

I turned down the Rogers years ago for £75, and now I refuse to buy at the price they are now for such a small unit.

[@bradmilne863]

Never came across them at that price , but really you can find it kinda it with (with subs )great bass in something like the Cambridge audio r50/tl200 in great shape for less than half the price and below .

[@itisjustacomment]

@bradmilne863 Yeah , I was regret to this day . The person didn't know what they had at car boot sale , I didn't have the cash on me , I should have got it but didn't . Oh, I still think about it . Every time I see a video :(

[@matthewtaylor7355]

When we gonna get a review of a pair of Chinese ls3/5as Kel.. I have seen them on Ali Express for 300GBP...We need u to tell the truth

[@stereoreviewx]

you try em let me know

[@barrybrennan2135]

Don't bother. Look at the ASR testing of one - insane impedance.

[@matthewtaylor7355]

​@@barrybrennan2135More China bashing.... If u heard em in a blind comparison test u wudnt b able to single them out

[@barrybrennan2135]

Wrong. Their measured plots are an abomination. And not LS3/5A. ​@@matthewtaylor7355

[@barrybrennan2135]

@@matthewtaylor7355 minimum impedance on the Sound Artist ls35a from China is less than 2 😆

[@Stelios.Posantzis]

2:34 Contradiction in terms!

[@stereoreviewx]

what

[@Stelios.Posantzis]

not low quality chipboard = contradiction in terms all chipboard is the definition of cheap and low quality

[@rainroosileht7017]

Those are probably miles away from celestion ditton 15s ...

[@stereoreviewx]

yes highly different I would pick coda over dittos

[@rainroosileht7017]

@@stereoreviewx Ditton should have more and deeper bass considering the bigger driver and ABR?

[@D1N02]

I guess you don't have many speakers from the eighties or nineties Kelvin.

[@stereoreviewx]

have reviewed some modern speakers

[@mwizachavura8399]

Then they are like headphones 😂

[@scrunts666]

The Roger;s sound boring with anything but vocal music.

[@analoglooney]

Amen to that!

[@stereoreviewx]

emmmmm sort of I do see that point

[@frankgeeraerts6243]

NOT the same bass drivers ..........one has a B110 ( SP1OO3) and the other has a version of the B200.( SP1014)

[@stereoreviewx]

The B200 is 200 mm across. It’s what you find in the Kef corral They are both B110

[@user-du1yk7uk9v]

I'm curious how would you compare the B&W DM4 to these other 2 speakers ....which would you choose?

[@stereoreviewx]

would be the rogers not by far