Am I Failing at Early Retirement?

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

How do you feel about taking on work post-retirement? Is it a failure if it's needed vs. chosen? Let us know in the comments

[@tamib64]

I'm 58 and we're about six years away from retirement. Last year I started selling on ebay and hope to continue to grow and build the side hustle. I anticipate having more than enough in retirement, but always think keeping busy is a good thing. No shame..

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

@@tamib64 Great! Side hustles can be great for a whole host of reasons.

[@dianeandandrew]

Everyone has their own path. Life is full of adjustments.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

@@dianeandandrew SO true Diane! Well put

[@AnhNguyen-bi6vg]

No such thing as failure to work post retirement. We change as we age

[@dagobaker]

ive decided to just go down to part time at 47 and go until 62 instead of working 65 hours a week till 55 and completely retire... so far this decision has been incredible... especially with nicer weather coming

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Nice! Congratulations, Matthew. Best wishes to you on your journey

[@Jfhelwig]

I hit the jackpot with part time work. Our youngest is still at home, autistic and 25. We've cared for him as a couple and likely always will. In 2022 we were notified that our state took him off the waiting list for services. Through Medicaid waiver he is eligible for about 30k of in home services per year. What blew us away was that one parent can be the employer and one the employee. And since we all live under the same roof, it's federal, FICA and state exempt from taxes. I retired 4 years ago and just now started receiving this wage. Totally unexpected when I retired and absolutely fills that part time job need.... For doing what I always expected to be doing anyway

[@Benham_Design]

I'm 100% unemployable, there is no way I can go back. Just the thought of sitting through an orientation video 😂

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Right? I remind myself often how much that sheer tedium wore me down. And then there's performance evaluations... -Jason

[@Shadowgopher]

@@TwoSidesOfFI Performance evaluations are the things that gall me the most in my high-tech job. It just seems like a pointless exercise. Promotions and raises are dictated by budget, not performance. No matter how well you perform, you're not getting much, if anything, if there is no budget for it and there is a finite pool of money in the budget so it you do get what you may deserve, then that means there is less for others that are tapping that same pool of money. It just gets so tedious after many years.

[@SurpriseMeJT]

@@Shadowgopher I feel like promotions and raises are just as much a political decision. Your boss can always give the excuse of lack of a budget, but the real reason is that he wants to reward someone else or himself first.

[@yestohappiness2721]

This video hit home strongly. It just dawned on me last week that I cannot "retire" - that even though rationally I calculated I am FI, well with inflation and after blowing the said rationally calculated budget for a few months in a row on "one-time-necessities-slash-stuff-happens", I realize that it will be better for my mental state and my portfolio to work part time for as long as I can and bring around $700-$1000 a month (that's my "feel good, can relax" amount). I am almost 50, will leave a job in tech that I hate in 2 mo, and was looking forward to the RE part for creative projects I postponed and for leaning new things. Been watching retirement videos for 10 years (sigh!!!), trying to visualize the the R-day, how will it be etc etc... I definitely feel like I "failed" both at FI and RE... As context, we moved abroad a few months ago and the budget we carefully calculated is 15% too low due to conversion rates ($ is too weak), plus feeling like a total chicken as I leave a high paying job, I need another 10% padding to be able to do more things, travel a bit more etc. All this happened while I was already padding my projected budget by at least 10%, doing all research online as well as boots on the ground for 4 yrs etc etc. Totally disappointed, but better late than never to have the big wake-up call! To sum it up, my surprises were: - I didn't know I'll freak out so much to leave the tech job/salary (true, we just moved abroad and started life from zero in a new environment - something to freak out on by itself :)) - I couldn't have predicted both the inflation and the value of dollar going down, which significantly decreased our purchasing power - this was a great stress test as they hit our plans simultaneously - I didn't understand that to relax and enjoy retirement I need more than 10% padding, more like 20%-25%... otherwise I stress about every expense and I'm miserable. Rational calculations are one, but emotions have proven to be so much stronger here! This "game" of FI is more emotional than rational, at least for me... who knew???

[@stevemlejnek7073]

I am 57, debt free including mortgage. Semi retired 1.5 years ago, by taking a job much closer to home, less pay and way less stress. Work 30 hours a week Mon - Thurs. It's been great! Now I am ready to take another step towards eventually not working at all. Secured a "handy man" job will likely work around 10 hours per week. I view it as something to do and a little extra spending money. To me this is retired...

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks for sharing, Steve! Best wishes to you in your semi- and full retirement to come

[@artoftravelbestselle]

The being 'unemployable' is a common theme in this video. And the problem with returning to work is that you become more choosy & even when you really need the job, are less able to tolerate certain challenges of work life.

[@davidatkinson5396]

I wouldn’t feel the need to label or cast judgement if that turns out to be the case. It’s just adjusting to reality. Rather than considering it a failure, I’d probably consider my original assumptions as being unrealistic and move on, making adjustments as necessary. Retirement - early or not - is a journey. We all need to find our way and address needs as they arise, whether they be financial, social, mental or other. Great conversation guys. P.S. Eric, thank you for helping me realize that I never want to work for another boss. After the last 40 years, I’m done. Most of my bosses weren’t especially good leaders, and I value great leadership.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Well put, David. We're on the same page with you.

[@Shadowgopher]

Jason's comment about "Choosing" vs "Planning" was worth the price of admission for watching this video. That concept went straight to the core of my thoughts towards early retirement!

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks, Mark! Glad it resonated with you

[@jeffreylo8608]

I was in a demanding tech job. I had no idea after I leave I would value my time and flexibility as much as I do now. Like Jason, I would evaluate any future work commitment with fulfillment a top priority.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

It's definitely one of those things you can't truly know until you have it, right? Fulfillment is a great metric to use, Jeffrey.

[@LoriLWorden]

This is one of my favorite episodes! The data & financial advice on this channel is super valuable -- but this type of episode gets to the heart of the matter. I love to hear about different life paths post FI. Thank you so much for doing these!

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thank you, Lori! We truly appreciate your support. The most helpful thing you can do for the show is to like, subscribe, and share the channel with friends and on social media! It means a lot to us

[@chuckb2676]

Jason - "Does FIRE make you stupid?" Me - "I sure hope so." I'm tired of thinking.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Amen, Chuck. Best wishes to you

[@FI-Beauce]

😂

[@samb.1041]

@@FI-Beauce 🤣

[@jeumd]

Love the content guys. Random future episode idea. Would you consider a series where each episode you analyze a subscriber or two's current FIRE status/plan? I'd love to send my numbers and future plans and have you guys rip it apart.

[@seanmooney9772]

Gents, just recently found your channel - love it! You are both great speakers - authentic, succinct, sympathetic, positive and motivational. Keep it up, much appreciated. Greetings from the Rheingau!

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks, Sean! We appreciate your support.

[@bjornlilja2692]

Very good episode! Touching on several topics I’ve been giving a lot of thought since quitting work.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks! Great to hear

[@NaeOnYT]

We are striving for baristaFI. We like working; we just don't like working so much--we usually clock in at about 50 hours per week, sometimes more. And we also have jobs that can be extremely stressful. We're looking forward to working part-time so we can still feel like we have structure and we're active in our community, but we can also have more time for our hobbies and our families. I think it's also important to remember that some FIRE options are difficult if you aren't a high-income earner. A lot of people in the movement make six figures, but we barely make that combined. BaristaFI is a more realistic option for us. Edit: Since it came up, I will note that I know several people who went from full time to part time and are doing totally fine.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks for sharing, Nae. Best wishes to you

[@romason6567]

Your experiential approach to all things retirement is so illuminating. I found your comments regarding working on commission, self-publishing and volunteering with taxes particularly helpful - thank you!

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks, Ro!

[@mpatters11]

Thanks for the interesting topic! I am hopefully 3 years out from retiring from my day job. However, i've been building a part-time business that I really enjoy and don't consider "work" and I plan on doing that 10-20 hours a week as a Barista-FIRE like scenario. Currently I've put that business income into my FIRE calculations for about 7-8 years post-FIRE, to smooth out the transition, and then move to a regular FIRE situation afterward. Working for yourself part-time gives you so much more flexibility than a regular Barista-Fire job!

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Sounds great! Best wishes to you

[@dabrigalive]

I am definitely unemployable. At this point my lifestyle will decrease before I go back to work. Life is too short.

[@stevenknight8762]

Hi Eric and Jason! Thanks for taking us on your journey to FIRE! To me retirement is a (FIRE) number, not an age, so you're on the right track! 😎

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks, Steven!

[@noahmoyer4992]

Hey guys, just wanted to say thanks for all that you do (I have been watching now for maybe 5 months and have seen maybe every episode between spotify and youtube). I am 22 which is probably not your average viewer and to be honest I have no plans on retiring early: I just want to be financially independent and be able to not worry about layoffs, not being able to take risks, and things of that nature. Y'all have given me more information that you can even imagine. Starting in May, I will officially begin my career as a chemical engineering and this channel has helped me tremendously in figuring out where I want to be in 10-15 years. Anyways, just wanted to say thanks!!

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks, Noah! We truly appreciate your support. You are 100% right that FI offers the freedom from many things. In addition, remember to be open to the fact that your wants and goals can and will change. None of us knows at 22 what we'll want when we're 32, or 42. But you'll figure it out. Best wishes to you in all that's to come!

[@darrenmatthews1667]

Noah. I'm basically you at 55. Got my Chem E degree and was a heavy saver to be ready for the worst if it happens. I never even thought about FIRE. It was easy for me to save because after being a poor college student, I was making a lot more. Although I increased my living standard, I didn't go overboard. When I got to 54, I was getting unhappy with work and started looking at when I could retire. Turns out I could have retired even earlier. It was never a goal of mine to retire early. It just happened because I needed a change and could afford it. I'm going to be prophetic here and tell you in a few years that you won't even be doing Chem E work anymore. My advice is focus on the FI but never to the point that you feel you are sacrificing for it. It's like a diet. If you force it, you will hit a point where you will regret it.

[@noahmoyer4992]

@@darrenmatthews1667 I think I really needed to hear that. Thank you.

[@tlister67]

I work in research and after 20 years the grind was wearing me down, migraine problems. I was able to go part time working remotely in 2019. I made the same base rate which cannot be replaced with a low skill job. The stress is sometimes there but I have more time to exercise, family and hobbies. There is much less pressure to retire now.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Very true. Just reducing hours can be a great solution for many people if they want to keep working.

[@matts9728]

We're working on hitting FI in a few years at age 37. Definitely planning to work an extra year or so to make sure part-time work won't be required during retirement.

[@anad44]

Where are you? I’ve been in Fl for 63 years and we are ready to leave.😂 Growth south of Tampa has ruined our place.

[@matts9728]

@@anad44 We're in Central FL

[@andrewoneil8535]

Good video per usual. I think one great option that I thought about is actually working part time at a place you frequent. For instance, work part time at REI, get health care, get discounts on stuff you like etc. Just get a schedule to what works for you.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks, Andrew. We agree!

[@gilliantait2100]

So interesting to hear those discussions on barista fire. I’m sure there needs to be a greater emphasis on how do I want to spend my time? Is this the best choice for my time? So sad to hear such necessary emphasis on benefits in USA. Forever grateful to live in a country with universal free healthcare and universal pension for all over 65 years old. Certainly makes budgeting easier.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks, Gillian. We are in agreement in all points! We remain optimistic that someday the healthcare system here will change for the better.

[@LKtravels]

This was my second year of doing VITA/TCE tax prep. I like to help people and this gives me an outlet for that. I like that I can tell them which days/dates I'm available and that I'm not locked into a schedule for an externally set duration. (Watch out for circumstances that are "out of scope" for what otherwise looks like a fairly simple return--especially for the self-employed.) A variation on the "Barista FIRE" concept is doing certain "batches" of work to supplement the budget for travel or other "play" from time to time. I retired initially at 38 but ended up teaching for a number of years (at first full-time, then part-time, then only in select terms) in part because it boosted the travel budget so I could spend 6-8 weeks in Europe most summers.

[@mikesurel5040]

Nice use of the word "bolus" 😊. Great episode. One of the attractive parts of this path is failure IS an option.

[@FionaMacDonald]

You made me realize I’m unemployable too 😜 I was also surprised after a career in IT, how easy it was to completely shut it down and not give a shit about computers 🤣🤣 I really resent when I spend even an hour in front of the laptop doing stuff. I thought I might re-certify in AWS, but I just can’t even find the motivation and why would I want to? I don’t want to get a job in it again 😵‍💫 As for the Barista idea - I always figured if I really needed the money I would pick a nice mind numbing job like grocery clerk. But when I look at the hourly wages and calculate it to a yearly figure, I would have to be pretty desperate to make the effort now 😳

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Welcome to the club, Fiona!

[@FionaMacDonald]

@Laura Atwood oh god the thought of actually being a barista or a bar tender 😱 Salesforce has coffee bars with live baristas in the office locations. Me and my friend used to joke that’s the job we want. But then I saw these people ordering their free coffees and being all perturbed if it wasn’t exactly as requested 🙄 Nope, they would be getting an extra shot of something alright in their coffee from me 😳🤣🤣

[@NekonataVirino]

How does anyone ‘fail’ at a personal decision? Reframe to make flexibility your aim. Do what you want and what maximises your overall enjoyment of your life.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Precisely

[@jeremyeckhause1747]

Great content, as always, gents. I'm not planning to retire anytime soon, partly because of the exact themes you point to in this video. If I was told you could work in any field/job you wanted for the same pay as your current one, but you would have to work as hard/on-call you do now, I would basically choose to do more or less exactly what I do now. I'm very lucky, I know, but I think it also means Barista FIRE is something that does not appeal me. That is of course very different from what Jason is doing--working very few hours with flexibility for enjoyment/purpose, etc. BTW, I too plan to do some tax volunteering when I retire--something I have enjoyed doing off and on for years helping friends who find taxes either tedious or stressful.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks, Jeremy. We appreciate it. Sounds like you've got a good situation in place, which is great. Best wishes to you

[@navymathboy]

There are people that I work with who are excited to retire, but have no plans whatsoever other than to look forward not to work. I've seen some retirees come back after a year or so, for money and/or just to keep busy. Like you guys touched on here, besides having a financial retirement plan it's also just as important to have a plan on how to provide joy and meaning post-retirement. This seems like a skill in itself.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

100% and it's probably it's one of our most frequently discussed topics!

[@skhend6310]

Very helpful. Thank u

[@xaldath4265]

The outsourcing conversation is a tough one. On the surface it really can be as simple as "is it worth it to me to pay someone rather than DIY?" It can be looked at from a purely financial perspective with the opportunity cost, but that equation must include the practicality of whether or not the time spent would actually be used to create a profit, because not everyone has the clear opportunity to profit from every minute...nor are are we machines that require no rest. Your example is spot on, in my opinion. If you have to take a day off work to do a job and the outsourced task is cheaper, then that's a pretty obvious decision. It becomes much less clear when it's a leisurely weekend DIY task with no pressure for a completion date and no immediately profitable task opposing it. It also becomes even more unclear when the budget is already stretched thin so even if the final result would be a net positive, it still requires the flexible ability to spend that money. Unfortunately, one of the many opportunities available to those who already have to a vastly different degree than those who don't. Fantastic topic with so many facets to consider. Thank you for addressing it.

[@nickdoyle-achievefinancial2464]

I think I'll continue to work on new projects, but want to be in control of it like you guys. Earning what I do now, I'd rather just work an extra year or two to provide a larger buffer so I don't have to earn a certain amount again.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Sounds like a solid plan, Nick! Best wishes to you

[@darrenmatthews1667]

I retired about a year and a half ago and my wife and I talked about taking a contract once in a while for maybe a 3 month period to give me some challenge. I got a call from my old employer wanting me to help on a project I was working on when I was there. This is the perfect setup. I am working on exactly what I want. I'm self-directed. I know exactly what I need to do. And after a month, I am ready for it to be over. I'll stay with it to the end of the contract but that's it. It just takes too much time even though I like the work. I end up seeing something else I want to do and I have to put it aside. I have become unemployable. Never going to let anything that requires that kind of time commitment take over my life again.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Welcome to the club, Darren! Sometimes we have to try these things out to see whether it fits or not. I definitely recommend short commitments give how common what you describe seems to be. Best wishes to you -Jason

[@mark-old-man-golf]

I have semi-tired last year with some part time working coming up this year. Working on a golf course as a starter this summer for 3 days a week instead of a office job. I get some money and golf for this until I can fully retire in 6 more years.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Great! Sounds like you're enjoying the choice you've made. Best wishes to you, Mark

[@LoriLWorden]

Great idea! Free golf is a huge benefit!

[@JulianOwens]

just getting started on diability aftr my stroke in recovery too

[@Azel247]

Coast FI at 36, planning full FI at 50. Currently working 28 hours a week which to me feels like retirement. Even at 50 I don't think I can stop working completely just because it adds some color to my life.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Just be open to your mind changing. None of us can predict what we truly want years or even decades down the road. Trust us on that one.

[@Azel247]

@@TwoSidesOfFI Absolutely, because my priorities 10 years ago are vastly different from my priorities now. However, your future priorities are not just unknown, they are actually un-know-able, and thus impossible to plan for. The only thing we can do is plan for the future using our values today and be open to change.

[@2wheelfish]

Man did this episode resonate. Retired about a year ago, been toying with doing some consulting work or getting a part time job in a different field (more social than anything)...but every time this thinking gets serious, so does my avoidance of the commitment. Maybe I'm now unemployable after a year being free, hadn't thought about it that way. Am I becoming dumber? Duh, I don't know, lol. Great episode as always.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Glad you liked it! The unemployable club seems to be quite large :) best wishes to you

[@stevenl5922]

So many labels, I can't figure out what version of FIRE I am. Retired from my stressful Biotech job, pulling a pension, focused on family and personal time, but also a self-employed consultant. So I'm not Barrista-Fire, I'm not Fat-FIRE... Self-Directed, part-time, chubby FIRE? Would that be SDPTC-FIRE? 😄

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Call it whatever you wish! Common labels just make it easier to communicate. Best wishes to you, Steven

[@Bob-yh7ir]

I don't see it as a failure either unless it was needs based which means your retirement plan wasn't much of a plan. It's no different than those who work 2 to 3 years and then quit to travel and do whatever for a year or so and then work a few years to have a year off. Rinse, repeat. That works as well. I have always said to my spouse that what's the worst case scenario? We have to get part time gigs to make it through for a bit? Well not the end of the world but could be because in order for that to come true, some really bad long term things would have to occur.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Sounds like we're in agreement, Bob. Thanks

[@foodieryder]

I always wish there were 15-20 minutes versions of your videos. Since most of us who watch this are still pre-FIRE, we typically cannot spare 1 hour watching KZbin video. 😊

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

We used to make 10-15 min highlight videos from full length episodes and make both available. People complained about this approach and so we stopped. It's also a lot more work than it seems to do this. Also, pause videos and come back to them when you've got more time. I'm post-FIRE and I still do this often. We'll still be there when you're ready to watch more! -J

[@AnhNguyen-bi6vg]

Always enjoy the topics discussed. Not sure if I would like to work in a job that pays much less to compensate for my time but perhaps it’s not always about money

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

You may be on to something!

[@tigerbeck]

I was just laid off but my calculations say I never need to work again. It’s hard to change from saver to spender and the saver in me says it’s a terrible idea to sell any of my positions or even spend my dividends in this market. Considering working again just to increase my cushion but like the guys on the show I don’t really want to commit to anything except starting my own business.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Sorry to hear of your layoff. You're 100% right that this transition is difficult. If you've done all the work and have reached FI, you have options - this is most important. No one but you gets to choose what you select from the choices available to you. Just honor what's most important to you and you'll figure it out. Best wishes to you.

[@driftingintoretirement]

It’s not really working Jason, more like volunteering lol. Great video guys. I am loving retirement.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Thanks! What’s the most valuable lesson you’ve learned so far?

[@stevenharms5368]

Tell me you're "Sorry about that", without telling me you are not sorry about that. Insert the exact same laugh as last 1sec of video.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

I mean I definitely don’t wish a bad experience on anyone, I promise! -J

[@MrMcSleeps]

Hey guys, is it just me, or do your voices sound deeper in this episode? I listen on Spotify and noticed after listening to two other preceding episodes today that the audio sounds deeper, I had to come to youtube to check and it sounds deeper too, haha. Anyway, sounds a little funny, but as always, I appreciate the content very much! Cheers!

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Correct! Different audio chain than usual. You’ll see it revert back in the next ep.

[@JohnSmith-js3po]

I’ve retired no problems with money spend less you will be fine 😮

[@christinab9133]

❤❤❤

[@AlKindi9]

I find the whole "market is down so I need to go back to work" reasoning interesting. I feel like your FI plan needs to account for bear markets and long periods of sideways or down action. The past 15 years straight up before 2022 were not normal.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

100%

[@rickharmon6601]

Well you work one day a week, that is 52 days a year. That is a lot more work than a couple of weeks during the Holidays. Comparing hours to hours, you work more. So you definitly cannot say too much negative about people going back to work. I have followed FIRE since it became popular with MMM back in 2012 and almost every FIRE blogger says, if we fail we will just go back to work. We I can attest to "just go back to work" it does not work, because your skill sets decline and the world moves on, so UPS or Home Depot or being a barista is all that is available.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Oh I definitely don’t knock it. The episode name refers to the question raised by Jeremy’s reader. And Eric agrees with you 100% on that point about the difficulty in going back. -Jason

[@turquhart1]

Does FIRE make you stupid??? YES!!! That is certainly my experience!

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Oh no! Oh well, I guess it’s worth it :) -Jason

[@davidgrisco1939]

I departed work when a separation PKG was offered at 53. That was almost 10yrs ago. Can't imagine going back. Have you seen the headlines of mental health issues with people after the pandemic and elections? You couldn't pay me enough.😂

[@eightsprites]

Live an other day? Then its a success

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

100% Every day vertical is a gift

[@Demy1970]

Cut back on expenses and you can’t get back the time

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

Fact

[@dapperlink]

I’d go with Ember FIre versus Barista FIre 😂 and why would people judge others because they don’t meet the made up definition of pure FI. Sounds like purest at work. One has not failed because they take a part time job after early retirement. Let’s celebrate each others level of FI.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

No disagreement here

[@sallysublime]

Lol. Does FIRE make you Stupid? I’d listen.

[@TwoSidesOfFI]

New episode idea!