⚠️ Beware! There's a FFXIV Stalker Plugin ⚠️

[@Jo3lioeL]

FFXIV Players Being Normal Challenge Difficulty: CATACLYSMIC

[@smexie2946]

No shit, theyre all mentally ill af 😂

[@NobodyAsked-p5p]

I used the stalker plugin to find out what type of beard oil Xeno uses and now I'm bald, help?

[@Limelol]

It's all downhill from here. Soon you'll even prefer playing Warrior over other jobs.

[@blackmagecompendium]

alas, its too late for you. bald 4 life

[@SmallSoftBread]

The fact that they're using Google Docs as an opt-out mechanicsm, asking users to provide all this unnecesary data and how "Google Docs" sounds like "Google Dox" is just poetically hilarious to me

[@luciaseriin]

The worst thing is, both with the opt-out by discord and the opt-out via the doc, you give them more stuff to link to your character, specifically your google account name and discord handle. And in the end you need to trust the developer who created this unhinged plugin in the first place to actually opt you out and like lol lmao.

[@dyshexiia]

it was shutdown on GITHUB its probably been reuploaded but the main link is now gone thankfully.

[@orenji]

It's just been disabled due to mass reporting, but they can appeal it and there's a high chance it can go back up if it hasn't violated TOS. Technically this is on SE for bad implementation and allowing that account ID to be exposed.

[@vinny4765]

@@orenji Seconding this. If the appeal is accepted then that specific repo will most likely be untouchable when it goes back up. Brigading never does any good.

[@darklorty]

It's already on gitea

[@dyshexiia]

@darklorty Of course... People are so weird man lol

[@mindisfrozen]

Worse part is, there are some content creators who have multiple characters, one for streaming, some to play with friends/casual, and now "fans" can use it to stalk them on their off time because they want senpai to notice them!

[@StayCalm0]

The worst part is the fact that your email comes up. That crosses the line between in game and not in game for EVERYONE forever. I honestly do hope SE bans mods at this point

[@victisomega4248]

@@StayCalm0 they already do ban mods. What I hope doesn’t happen is that square enix starts looking at anti cheat rootkit for this game. Not only does that garbage not work on my system, I can’t stand the idea of running it anywhere near my data. The simpler fix is to stop shipping this much data to the client.

[@kman6004]

@@victisomega4248 Their cyber security is abysmal. They will never figure out how to prevent this data from being shipped

[@TaigaGalette]

i really think this is the time SE needs to step in this is way over crossing the line

[@vex4859]

Yeah and ban all mods and ruin it for everyone dumbass yall act like they are gonna steal your SSN

[@uberpinkwarrior]

If they step in at all, they'll need to step in hard. So that is in general a bad thing. The game can disguise the information better, or alternatively Dalamud can block it themselves.

[@ibs4541]

Nah, I'm sure it's impossible for then to implement something to counter this, at least until someone actually makes it as a third party, then it will magically become possible.

[@resolutefox2738]

People can already stalk others without plugins. Square needs to worry about their current systems as well.

[@AlvinY4kitori]

The "best community" keeps pushing it. Charging up the limit break bar that will finally lead us to an anticheat software being implemented

[@CaptainRuin]

Breaking news. The Github for the Player Scope plugin was closed and locked by the Github staff for violating the Github terms of service. If you pull up the plugin site you can confirm what I'm saying here.

[@SuuMyyDii]

Removing the GitHub doesn't really do anything since it's open source and anyone cloud've forked it.

[@cereal9285]

Probably an automated ban on github's part because of mass reporting. There's a chance it might go to appeal because it's likely debatable if it's something that actually violates github TOS.

[@ShitOwl]

thats nice but the ppl who downloaded will still have access to it i assume?

[@muovikallo]

​@@cereal9285 and still has done more than SE xdd

[@chaous2000]

Automated bot response due to the volume of reports. The plugin itself violates no actual TOS for GitHub.

[@chaous2000]

>not SEs fault It 100% is on their shoulders. They built a system that fundemantally sucks in the way it was implemented. It works the same god damn way the friendslist and marriage rings work, one way. You delete someone off your FL, well too bad, you're still on theit FL. Divorce someone in game and toss your ring? Too bad, the other person can STILL teleport you if they keep their ring, EVEN IF YOU GET REMARRIED. The new blacklist system was just lip service to appease the loud crowd without actually implementing it in a correct way. 100% pure laziness and bad design on SEs part.

[@DarkDyllon]

it works for it's intended purpose, the issue is how they implemented it. there's no way that nobody at SE thought "sending this much information to the client" was a good idea, if so, that's basic literally incompetence. the fact that this isn't even the plugin, but just in general, since you can apparently do this with cheat engine AND wireshark. even if they have kernel level anti-cheat and it doesn't work with cheat engine/wireshark, just run FF14 through a VM and wireshark the VM (scambaiter for example does this all the time, they let scammers connect to their VM and then use wireshark to reverse the connection. (also find out live where the scammers are)

[@Midnightear]

Considering they're aware of plugins and actively implement qols (botched as they may be), but never foresaw this issue feels incredibly careless.

[@Lyu-Phy]

As long as they dont fix it (whatever they see as the fix), someone will always be there to collect all of that data for x or y purpose. Incredibly careless on their part, it almost seems deliberate.

[@rooenart1346]

There is zero positive spin you could give this plug in. There is no reason for anyone to have this information unless its willingly given to you by the player. Like even some of the worst offended plug ins can be spun with 'well vison disabilities, motor function disabilities, people playing with limited hand movement' like fine sure, I bet thats 2% of the people who use it but alright. Who care's if someone who's legally blind is using cammy to better see the arena so they can just try their hand at raid content and raid with their casual static? Who care's if someone with motor skills uses cactar because their hand eye coordination is impaired and the heads up helps them adjust. There not doing world first I don't care. But THIS is wild.

[@someoneelse7287]

Something that can be done with the plugin is tracking marketboard undercutting and/or monopolies, when certain players log in to do their retainers (or other activities), etc. This enables targeting, harrassment, witch hunts, mass account-wide reporting, etc. Unbelievable.

[@wolv3232]

Tel Chan would love this plugin

[@alfonsonatura1519]

Cannot forget his little band of psychos like Freakmo, Goat Status, Allara, and whoever else was in their weird discord.

[@leoli1589]

@@alfonsonatura1519 Freakmo helped me clear TEA a few times (if it's a character named Freakmo Backshots) in PF, what did they do?

[@Cummins12v-j1u]

Goat status and his alt money spread definitely has this.

[@Kairax]

If dev stops, 2 more will appear, like hydra. SE effed up by doing bad dev job and only they can fix that security vulnurability

[@jakkandjing]

Full layer 0 anti cheat for the pc client. I was on board before and now I can't be convinced otherwise.

[@Winlith]

​@@jakkandjing it has nothing to do with anti cheat, it's SE's infrastructure exposing data PUBLICLY that the plugin consumes. Even if SE adds vanguard type anticheat to ffxiv, they'll make a separate standalone app that can do the same thing. SE needs to change what kind of info they expose to public.

[@evetay-j5b]

tbh they have to do a lot more. possibly persue legal action, cause those ppl already have a database with over 900k characters logged since dawntrail. if you played dawntrail, you are already comprimised. dont know how SE is gonna scrub all that data from the malicious actors.

[@kungfuvoodoo9889]

@@jakkandjing 1) SE knows that a sizeable amount of their playerbase uses cosmetic/QoL mods that aren't "cheating" and I highly doubt they would want to risk losing that source of money when the game has been losing other players. 2) Like Winlith said, the source of this problem is SE having data that by all rights should be private openly available for anyone to exploit, and anti-cheat isn't completely foolproof.

[@jakkandjing]

@kungfuvoodoo9889 At this point I don't care. I want all mods and plugins banned. Paying player base leaving be damned. If the player base drops enough that the game is unsustainable without mod players so be it.

[@midnightnavigator]

So the only good thing that could come from this and that is to identify your own stalker. However, this is a horrible plugin that might spark a really hard crack on any mods. Even harmless ones just for customization. It's not the end of the world, but this is why we can't have nice things. This dev should have kept stalking to him/herself.

[@animecrystal9]

Only good I see if the whole SE use it for there GM on bots too find them better and blacklist them and now I know why I get spam messages in my person jezz bot farmer's are using this hardware with others too get better info

[@FreshLexo]

​Jesus Christ, man. Stay in school, you need it.​@@animecrystal9

[@tronaldtv7099]

i repeat from a previous video comment: the more i hear about stories like this, the more i hate the ff14 community

[@Paraguai123]

Why do we need to consider this person as part of the community and not some weirdo doing stupid creepy shit that the majority of the players (which are part of the community) denounce this type of shit? Stop enabling weirdos by putting them into a group. Single them out and make them the creep.

[@therealpoponapo5375]

To be fair the bald man is more likely to cover bad stuff/drama. 99.9 percent of the community just want to dress up their catgirls and enjoy the story.

[@Paraguai123]

lo

[@mokustabby4865]

Yeah this is definitely 100% of the community. /s

[@richardmarin2538]

I can't help but think of the kind of brainrot that can lead someone to hear something like this and think it's specifically an ffxiv thing. Like cool, you can hate, but you, like everyone else, only found inside what you yourself brought in.

[@ibs4541]

It's funny how FFXIV is reaching a point where addons/plugins are both keeping the game alive and killing it at the same time. The complete lack of action and clarity about the subject is pretty amusing. The game is already losing players for other reasons. Trying to address anything about plugins/addons right now would only make it worse, no matter the path they choose. I guess that's the price for taking things for granted for so long now.

[@DarkDyllon]

this isn't even because of the plugin, the plugin just revealed the massive flaw, which the flaw always existed since it was added. the biggest issue here is that SE's new blacklist system sends all of that data from the server to the client, and the client then filters out based on your blacklist (to save on cost) what ended up happening is kinda how ACT works, ACT doesn't directly interface with the game, it detects the network that FF14 uses, reads it and then shows it in readable format. that's literally what the plugin does, it detects the pakket responsible and makes it readable. (this can also be done with other programs unrelated to FF14, such as Cheat Engine and Wireshark, even if FF14 actively detects and stops working when detecting these 2 programs or any other program doing this on your machine, other machines can also detect the network activities from your machine, but even then, if someone really really wants to, they can just setup an VM and play FF14 on that, while running Wireshark on the main PC while monitoring the network activity from FF14 that runs in the VM.

[@LtLink]

⚠ Beware! There's a FFXIV Streamer that pees on sinks⚠

[@yeahnahmate7]

😂

[@DrAlberts]

The good thing is that this won't affect 99% of xeno's community. Because we don't even play the game xffing

[@DoppelgangerTH]

Yep actually unsubbed last month

[@GlorpShakey]

xff only remaining players are those weirdos treating this game as a dating simulator / Second Life

[@yeahnahmate7]

​@@GlorpShakey found the incel 😂

[@esko911]

@@GlorpShakey the mentally ill side of the game lol

[@Froggsroxx]

The thing is, it's already released into the wild. Even if the main download is removed, it's too late. This is only something SE can address by fixing their data security.

[@Rogsnutle]

Y'all think SE will do something about this, but it took them 10 years to adjust the blacklist in response to complaints of stalking. The update did nothing to stop the stalking, it just made it so YOU can't see it's happening. SE does not, and has never, cared about it's players.

[@KZorander]

There used to be a plugin that would tell you what duty had popped when your roulette queue popped, so you could just not accept the duty if you didn't want to. For example, you queue for leveling roulette, it pops, you see that it's Aurum Vale, you back out. The game used to send the duty information to the client BEFORE you accepted the duty, and that plugin grabbed the data for you. SE changed it so that the client would not receive that information before accepting the duty, therefore breaking the plugin. There is a historical precedence for SE breaking a plugin ON PURPOSE by changing what information is sent to the game client.

[@DarkDyllon]

@@KZorander it's also with Deep Dungeon, they used to send everything to the client, including floor layout, trap locations, chest locations (and contents) there was a cheat program that would read this data and visually add it to your screen (kinda what plugins do now, but back then Dalamud didn't exist, so it was something different) SE changed how that worked and now all of that remains server side, no idea how SE will navigate this, but it'll be a bit different though.

[@Lyu-Phy]

They especially never cared for non JP players.

[@amazinspodermanproductions1342]

Food for thought: the plug-in cuts both ways. This would out any harassers on their alts as well. For example, if you ran Lionel through that thing, it would show all his alt characters. So harassers beware...not as hidden as you thought.

[@GabbyyCAT]

I'm someone that has been tracked down due to a market board battle. This was a while ago and I'm pretty sure wasn't related to this plugin - they tracked me based on my retainer naming conventions, my lodestone and a site I had granted access to my lodestone ID. I'd also joined that site's Discord. They sent me an in-game tell and then admited how they had tracked me down and sent me a Discord DM. I was unnerved, but they explained their process of tracking me down, apologised and we reached a (somewhat) peaceful resolution. I've since ensured my discord does not link to any RL information. This plug-in debacle is very concerning and a massive oversight on SE's end. My point is - people could track you WITHOUT a plug-in like this, but the idea of this being widespread is very scary.

[@DarkDyllon]

you'll always fall back into a pattern, that's human nature, so at some point you'll fall back into a pattern and people can recognize patterns. i've pissed off a lot of people so i'm kinda amazed that this never happened to me.

[@Sasavicz]

I bet a dollar if you go to their discord to opt out, they need/get your info TO opt you out. So they get you info either way...

[@Null_Experis]

the solution to this is to anonymize player data for blacklists and make it server-side and send that data encrypted and start suing people who break the encryption (because that's a violation of US federal law).

[@DarkDyllon]

yep, an encryption or just not make your client deal with this, this was never an issue before the new BL system, the fact that the new BL system requires all of this information so that it can also BL the alts is the main issue. the moment it enters your client is when you can manipulate it, so they need to avoid that.

[@shiznaztm]

Inb4 Yoshi P shuts down all plugins just due to this one

[@MinecraftMartin]

If that's what it takes, I hope so. SE should not make this data available to begin with

[@RPGOmen]

The fact we still don't have a statement on this make me worried that there is no easy fix and they can't hide the ID. Though it is ironic that they recently made a move to make harassment of employees harder to do while simultaneously make the harassment of players a thousand times easier for stalkers. This has been an issue since DT launch, but has got widespread acknowledgement by the community the last five days.

[@Cinnamonmilks]

Im very curious how or if SE responds to this ngl. Cuz the fact they couldnt see this coming is actually insane

[@personamithulu]

I imagine they're probably going to consider adding an anti-cheat because of this. Sure people are going to pitch a fit, but this is what happens. It's a nuclear option but it'll likely be for the best.

[@Buhngo]

its plugins in like this that are ruining our chances to get the devs to consider plugins seriously

[@nhedd0s839]

No? It's because third-party programs and plugins are huge security risks and can alter the game experience in an unintended way. They don't like plugins like this for this very purpose. They never had a chance to be taken seriously and NEVER will.

[@revolver9345]

​@@nhedd0s839 pluggins been grey area cause it gives pc players advantage over console.

[@mellar5864]

May chaos take the world!

[@lilithalicedark]

The only use case I could immediately see from any of the info from the plugin used is with the plugin Visibility and its Voidlist, which even then wouldn't need to share details with the actual end user. It could link it in the backend to make it so you cannot see any of the associated characters of an account. The Voidlist essentially being the blacklist on steroids, making even their character not render alongside blocking messages from their character. This is meant to allow you to disable bots, harassing, or annoying players from even being visible to the user, and I could definitely see an argument to allow it to extend to accounts as then even if a harasser made a new character it wouldn't be visible to their target but I don't see value in an account being able to be used as an extreme lookup where you can track where others are doing.

[@paulograca2781]

It's worse that you might think. The guy released the plugin working locally, meaning that not only if you opt out it doesn't do anything (opt out only works for the main server of the plugin with only a few users) but also the vast majorioty that is using it locally. This also means a lot of data has been scrapped already by multiple different people that have the plugin working locally, like mini data bases here and there. The only true solution at this point would be for SE to re-generate the ID's for the players and redo blacklist to not enable these id's to be opened for grabs. I feel like this whole situation is on SE, this might have been happening all along and only now it turned public when it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

[@RainaaKha]

the FF community cannot handle being normal for more then 15 minutes when there is a new way to harass or stalk people. and ruin mods for everyone

[@Winky813]

If the problem is that the game is sending the raw IDs that can be sniffed out, then I think the solution is for SE to encrypt them after scrapping all current IDs and issuing new ones. And all this because allegedly the dev was being a piss baby from getting undercut on the MB.

[@OMGKangelx]

This is the sort of shit that is going to get all mods banned. we can't have nice things anymore like just aesthetic mods, someones always gotta go out and ruin it for everyone else

[@chef416]

Not gonna happen, game would die almost immediately. It's a sad reality.

[@nhedd0s839]

??? They're already banned. Having mods is a bannable offense. Hello????

[@vtbbbnk]

@@nhedd0s839 in practice no - square doesent enforce that clause of their terms of service on anyone outside streamers - never did , its only there to prevent legal trouble in japan cause their laws dont allow mods or plugins

[@nhedd0s839]

@vtbbbnk these rules have been enforced before. A Twitch streamer was previously banned for using mods to more or less set an example. Try talking about mods in general chat in-game. It's still a bannable offense regardless of how you twist it.

[@chromedbadger]

So far the only thing that's been done is the original thread discussing this being deleted from official forums.

[@Vampireinarm1]

Great content my king, all hail Baldicante

[@RavenHeartless]

So the reason this plugin even works is SE was dumb and had their servers authenticate with your account ID by communicating it from their servers to our game client, still forcing the heavy lifting for the blacklist feature to be handled client side. They designed the blacklist update in the most lazy way possible, and should have anticipated what would be done with the data. To fix this they need to reverse the direction that the handshake occurs with account ID's, and have all of that handled server side. The bright side to them setting up the framework for data to be handled that way instead, is it would open the door for easier development for future game features. (For example, if they set up the handshake to occur server side, it could also allow us to have an in game interface with mogstation to allow us to interact with the store and also get instant item delivery instead of in some cases waiting up to an hour for a mount or outfit)

[@MinecraftMartin]

SquareEnix made this kind of data available? Pretty crappy and irrisponsible

[@recaplrg3552]

When you blacklist someone, the blacklisted person just doesn't appear for you anymore. The blacklisted person can still see you... SE didn't even make a good BL feature. If we disregard the other bad stuff they changed.

[@nukenade4623]

this plug in. does explain how many players know EXACTLY where to go the second a streamer starts streaming, and also how they get harrased in game when playing off stream

[@hockey1973]

The problem with "opting in" is the root problem remains. ANYONE can make a plugin like this because the data to do so has been made readily available. If this plugin makes it so that you have to opt in ANOTHER plugin can just do the same thing this one is doing. The only true solution is that SE must fix the problem on THEIR end and not make personal information freely available to the game client.

[@otysafiry]

SE is gonna crack down on this and it's gonna hurt everyone using plugins that aren't malicious.

[@INeosIRex]

🤡

[@DoppelgangerTH]

They won't

[@meteorolite1063]

The developer is most likely a stalker and the opt-out form is a telltale sign.

[@MinecraftMartin]

Could also be exploiting it just to force SE to treat player privacy more seriously

[@no00ob]

Apparently they are someone who hates marketboard under cutters and made the plugin originally to figure out who owns the retainers, so definitely a weirdo.

[@MinecraftMartin]

@@no00ob That is hilarious if true

[@DarkDyllon]

@@MinecraftMartin it's so frustrating when you have something that sells in bulk, see that the lowest offer is for example 3000 gil, you put it up for 2999 (proper undercutting) and then another idiot goes and undercut you by making it 2000 gil a pop. Some people deserve to either be banned from the MB or get a good bonk granted, if that is indeed the reason, this guy is fucking mental.

[@resolutefox2738]

Okay, but lets not pretend that FF14 doesn't have a stalking problem, even without mods/plugins. The blacklist/ignore system is a joke. You can't see them or what they say but they can still see you and what you say? They can still player search for you, look up your lodestone, etc. (My friends and I tested it.) So...I think square needs to worry about it on their side of things as well.

[@lightningv4210]

but people will always be able to stalk you, but being able to basically remove them from your life is the best way to do it. in the end why does it matter that they can see what you say, if they can never reply to you or talk to you ?

[@suprkon]

This is like having a regular everyday person walk into a police precinct and access the criminal record database. This is power that should only be meant for Square.

[@Raelthorne]

Between the Friend list not being two-way removal and the bizzare state of the lodestone character links, stalking was already bad in FFXIV. Its why I left the game after so many years. This new addon is just the icing on the cake.

[@mariovssonic184]

i will probably just get written off as a "Modbeast" (if thats the worst thing i get called in my life id say i had a good life) but everyone screaming to just ban mods has very little understanding of the harm that would cause. Cause A i would not solve the stalker problem and B it would hurt the game. It may not outright kill it but it would be a noticeable dip in revenue from players that would quit just like that.i know people that don't even mod but would quit on principle alone for there being an anti cheat. Square as company cant afford that right now. There struggling on a finical level and 14 is pretty much keeping there head above water and plugs are huge factor to why people are keeping the subs going.

[@chef416]

You don't have to be modest, it would absolutely kill the game. It's no secret that a good 80% of players use at least some kind of mod whether it be simple glamour stuff, raid related or the whole red flag.

[@mariovssonic184]

@@chef416 you are a 100 percent correct.

[@peachy7776]

21:27 this is fearmongering, chatter is not thinking. this functionality in a plugin, while possible (the reason dalamud advises against 3rd party), would have to be hidden for obvious reasons. Which is impossible in an open source plugin, which means if you installed a closed source unvetted plugin - the only way something like this can fly under the radar - you deserve the bad results.

[@sneakytrip6594]

I mean, I hate undercutters to the point where I don't list stuff sometimes, but good lord!

[@aSmolGoth]

The opt-out form makes me really feel like this is made for data phishing to sell people's data. Once you provide their email, they can locate your name and sell just info off. I'd rather have the virtual stalking than willingly provide data brokers my information easier than it already is.

[@runasth]

Who wants to bet that someone, at least a single soul, at SE pointed out during development that this was going to happen but shiped it anyway because tgey decided to trust on their players' good will?

[@HoloSkull]

When i saw the title, I thought this was going to operate just how most games do, getting logon alerts and seeing location, like what is just built into most games. No this takes things way further.

[@ultimateshadeofwar]

To be fair, it was stupid of SE to send ID's without crypting it and make it work server side, it's the basics of every single *WEBSITE* not even programs or apps, which usually require the same level of security, they were asking for this kind of trouble.

[@MN35A]

I was talking about this with a friend of mine who told me and I quote: "I learnt at Uni about client-server differences and the fact you MINIMISE the amount of data on the client." If that isn't showing SE's incompetence, I don't know what will. This went through planning, designing, implementation, testing, AND QA... and nobody picked up on the issues?

[@DarkDyllon]

@@MN35A don't forget that SE had this issue in the past with other things. For example there was a plugin that could see what duty you would get BEFORE you accepted, so if you didn't like something (for example Alliance Raid and you see Dun Scaith, you could just withdraw) Also Deep Dungeon had this issue in the past, where the server would send the client everything, map layout, monster locations, trap locations, chest locations, content of said chests etc. so there was a 3rd party program (this was before Dalamud) that would basically parse this to your screen, so you could see through the walls where each monster, chest, trap was and basically the entire floor was instantly displayed. (they later on made this information all server side, that's why trap plugins are unreliable, it can try to "predict" but never 100% accurately show you, since traps are there, but only the server knows this till it's too late)

[@bartthas]

With stuff like this and cheating. I'm really starting to count the days until SE introduces some kind of anti-cheat to XIV. It would be bad because it would hurt people who use costmetics mods, but if some people can't appreciate the state we're in now and have to use plugins like this. Sorry, but that's too much.

[@SethicusCrafts]

Could you be as kind to -hide- the info you pull up? Blur it in your youtube vid? It's bad enough that this plugin is there because some dude wanted to know who undercut them. I saw someone I know in there... and that means, you're spreading their info over youtube now. I'm sure other folks don't like it either. It may not be very useful info, but a lot of people have had problems with stalkers ruining their gaming experience for them. This encourages the stalker behavior.

[@naywils]

Can't wait to sell something on the market then have some psychopath spam me all day for losing them 1gil.

[@HawkenessMonster]

So, I have had full on stalkers in XIV.. for a l o n g time. It's absolutely terrifying and scary. I don't understand why people would do stuff like this ):

[@mokustabby4865]

Ignore them and move on. If you're letting someone else affect your enjoyment of the game, then maybe reevalute why you're playing the game. The internet is full of ppls who do shit like that. There is literally nothing they can do to you in game that you should be allowing to affect you irl. If you think otherwise, maybe seek some help. Its literally just a video game.

[@chef416]

Gonna ask a question that might have an obvious answer but I'm asking it anyway, what classifies as a "stalker" in this game? You can set yourself to busy and blacklist/ignore people and they literally can't do a single thing to you anymore. I once had a guy send me weird/creepy messages after a PvP game, blacklisted and never saw them again, am I missing something?

[@mokustabby4865]

@ you hit the nail on the head with this, and I agree completely. Anyone being "stalked" can do numerous things to ignore their "stalker". Im not condoning the creation of this plugin, cuz yeah it is pretty creepy and highlight some real issues with on the backend of the game. But at the same time, its kinda on the person being stalked to take measures to straight up ignore the stalker in some way shape or form. Acting helpless and letting someone get to you in a real way inside a video game takes a certain amount of acceptance which can easily be negated in multiple ways.

[@spiritmuse]

⁠@@mokustabby4865 Spoken like someone who has never had to deal with anything like this. It's not a matter of "letting" anyone do anything. When someone follows you and harasses you almost every single moment you're logged in, tell me how that won't affect your experience with the game. You're trying to hang out with your friends, they're there. You're trying to do quests, they're there. You're crafting, they're there. Tell me how that won't affect your enjoyment of those things. You need to stop putting responsibility on the victim for being hurt by things meant to hurt them.

[@DarkDyllon]

@@mokustabby4865 yeah, that's my issue nowadays when people say "FF14 has a stalker problem" I could understand pre-DT due to how it worked and you could still see that person and they could actively annoy you. now if you BL someone, they just dissapear, like they never existed to begin with, not just that character, but every character that guy has on the account. this plugin just exposes how SE tried to cut corners by making the client do most of the processing work instead of doing this server side.

[@sugarfreesux2899]

my tinfoil had started rattling when you talked about this, imagine someone being able to get to your account information, login and and pw and stuff, might also be able to get to your buy history and payment informations, which could mean that they can get into your bank account... not sure if that's possible, but in my head that's the next step somehow

[@Kude1707]

no they couldn't worse they could do is get your card info which can be blocked almost instantly

[@Ardethdelumière]

14:15 100% agree. What worse is that even if you removed the ID numbers, it's still creepy as shit. Why do you need to know my alts, retainers, etc? Seriously, why do you need to know that? It's like you said it's a stalker tool. It serves no purpose. This isn't some better version of the friends list. They literally said they just want the data. But fucking why? Are you going to sell it? Are you enabling stalking? I feel like someone is going to get hurt before all this is said and done. If I can get your account ID, what's to stop me from getting your address? What's to stop me from taking this IRL? It's fucking sick.

[@sethharrison2284]

This is one plugin that SE needs to crack down on. Either break it on the backend or sue the dev and perma ban them.

[@muzesmanny1522]

Can playerscopes devs be sued for this kind of opt-out thing?

[@Nillian0]

Yeah, I'm just not going to be logging in until this is fixed.

[@MorpheusCh]

Unfortunately if you logged in during Dawntrail release within these past 6 months you might already have your account ID flagged.

[@Nillian0]

@MorpheusCh damn. I logged in to do the msq, let my sub run out, and resulted one more time. Haven't logged in for maybe 3 or 4 months. That sucks

[@Thundawich]

I mean is this any different to fflogs in principle? That is another massive data sink you can access to stalk people that is opt-out. Yes its done differently and has different capabilities, but its still the same basic process.

[@piconio]

At this point I wont be suprised if Yoshi goes out with a dissapointed face and says" No more mods, we gonna add anti-cheat"

[@MinecraftMartin]

Will be pleasantly surprised. SE needs to grow a pair. All these rules about being nice to eachother, yet they are this relaxed with data security. Pretty embarrassing for SE

[@Kude1707]

While I personally dont have any concerns, I only use one character soo no alts to track. I still see no reason to need this info and any reason that comes to mind is a negative

[@ZaestraXD]

Anyone found with it installed should just get a permanent ip ban from the game.

[@Kude1707]

...you are aware you'd get banned anyway regardless of what plugin used if you get found out?

[@DarkDyllon]

you are also aware that an IP does nothing right? if i'm permanently IP banned, guess what I can do, I can call my ISP and tell them that during a livestream I accidentally opened a website from a viewer and it exposed my IP. within 5 minutes my IP is permanently changed, it's that easy (let's not forget VPN's) But also, if your next action is "hardware ban!" sure, let me fire up my VM (plenty of tutorials on how to make your VM take everything from the actual PC in terms of hardware, except that it's then brand new hardware and that isn't banned)

[@cearro___3521]

This might be the thing that finally crosses se's line.

[@gennosuke8935]

If you are being stalked/targeted and repeatedly harassed by someone making a bunch of alts to do so, it would be extremely helpful to know who so you can actually "file charges" against someone instead of xyz person on the internet thats clearly an alt.

[@cereal9285]

What is more concerning is how this game's community got to this point in the first place. Why its social culture has developed to where on one side of the isle, you have some of the worst, possibly at-risk anti-social people who do extremely weird things to others in game, and on the flip side, you have people who are so obsessed with keeping their in-game space 'safe' that being stalked in-game makes them have a mental break down and feel as though their safety is at risk. One group honestly just straight up attracts the other because both are mentally ill. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of players (specifically women) who have been stalked online through this game and have had at minimum, hate-speech or hate-speech adjacent, or sexual misconduct/harassment committed against them, and that's a legitimate problem. But in almost all of these cases it's due to relationships that have been built outside of the game and they get doxed in some way due to bad internet safety. FF14 is not IRL. You're not in danger because someone is stalking you in game. You try to tell police that you're in danger, naw- actually, tell anyone outside of this game that you feel in danger because someone's stalking you in it. Go ahead. See how crazy they'll look at you. This community has always had its priorities completely backwards. There are people advertising their fetishes on crystal's PF and there are kids who play this game and are allowed to under square's terms of service. Putting MDNI in your ad or your search info doesn't suddenly absolve you of responsibility when it comes to not harming minors because you're flaunting content that minors shouldn't even be seeing in the first place. It's like second-hand grooming and the (E)RP community (the community that cares most about stalking) is to blame for it.

[@jaymercury651]

There's a lot to unpack here but from having personally escalated online harassment to law enforcements myself in the past, I can safely tell you, at least from my experience, that you don't need a risk to safety for harassment to be damaging to somebody. Nobody looked at me crazy either.

[@cereal9285]

​@@jaymercury651 Yes but I'm certain that this online harassment wasn't just being 'stalked' in a video game to actual communications being made. You can't justify criminal harassment through most conduct in a video game. You'd be putting an internet troll like DNSL as apparently being a criminal. It has to be through some sort of communication that breaks the wall of the game. Doesn't mean that this communication can't occur in the game (you'd be stupid to do that, I.E., giving somone a death threat through a /tell and telling them their address, - that's a crime, through and through, and square likely has your billing information and identity.)

[@jaymercury651]

@@cereal9285 Yes it wasn't just through one game, though it started in one. I disliked the opening of your 3rd paragraph. It felt reductive to what I and others have experienced, because it doesn't have to be about danger to be disruptive or problematic.

[@cereal9285]

​@ Oh and I apologize that it made you feel that way. harassment occurs on a spectrum and the degrees of its damages are on a spectrum. your experience obviously sits on the end of that spectrum where I'm mostly talking about the other.

[@cereal9285]

@@jaymercury651 My comment got deleted for some reason but I said I'm sorry it made you feel that way, harassment is on a spectrum and obviously I am referring to the minor end of the spectrum where your circumstances are on the far end of that spectrum.

[@TobinatorTx]

I say this is just the beginning. There will be more malicious plugins coming in the following years. Once players truly realize that they can literally do ANYTHING without limitations or rules being set, then that will lead to serious chaos. It is time for SE to adjust their stance towards mods and plugins and finally get the playerbase in line again.

[@AvariceInc]

I would have had a good use for this plugin about 1.5 years ago. I and a few others were dealing with a crazy person messing with people's heads and hearts including mine with multiple alts acting like they are separate people. I'm still extremely sus when interacting with characters that feel new even now after over a year ago of figuring this person's crazy behaviour out. I know this kind of thing is extremely rare and agree this plugin is an overall negative but personally I would still probably use it to check every new character I interact with because of negative experiences I have had with people on alts.

[@FrankysABoysName]

imagine having the skill set and data to make an addon like this and NOT just making a better/accountwide friends list? guy is nuts, esp if the MB undercutting is rhe reason for all of it. I don't like undercutting, but unfortunately it is the nature of a community run market.

[@kaliboi0219]

I think most of the hysteria is the usual self-importance being given a platform. I mean no malice with that statement, but I am having a tough time understanding what the impact of this actually is on the individual level. Like, I get that it isn't right and is weirdo behavior if used by anyone, but does any of this translate to IRL at all? Is anyone's health or life in actual jeopardy?

[@Alexander-o2k7t]

people have not seen real botting problems lol, xiv botting is nothing

[@Invie4196]

Yea even if someone bought 10 billion gil it would just be like okay and?

[@system6bro]

question is, does this not break any data protection laws? since we are not opting in for our data to be used it could technically break GDPR laws in the EU. (not a lawyer or anything but just curious)

[@cereal9285]

No. while GDPR is intended to protect users on the internet there is no way that accountID scraping could be considered a breach of your personal data. The definition of your user data is vague on purpose and you will likely find your definitive answer in case law, and courts in general tend to be very common-sense driven, and I will tell you right now that it is extremely unlikely that your accountID is covered under that definition. That's more for stuff like preventing your personal (yet public) information like your full name and identity, billing address, etc., getting into other people's hands other than the people you give it to, I.E., publishers you buy games from.

[@DarkDyllon]

@@cereal9285 not entirely correct. i'm working daily with the GDPR (customer service) and GDPR protects anything that can be personal identifiable information. You could argue that your account ID is personal identifiable information, since it links directly to you, especially if you got a character with roughly the same name as your online handle. (like myself) so you could argue that it does breach GDPR since the GDPR covers personal identifiable information, which is very possible with your account ID being exposed.

[@cereal9285]

@ It won't follow through because it is an ID that is assigned to you by Square to identify you and this ID is sent to other clients on purpose, not information that you give to square and trust them with. All square has to do is say that they intended for things to function this way and you have no case.

[@echnew9258]

Could be worse I suppose they could attach your real name to your friend's list and the forums like blizzard once did. X.X

[@Cillias14]

does the creator of this plugin not see the amount of evil this can be used for? do they not care? this is scary man...

[@KitaiAryik]

and what floors me about all this is that last i checked JP has veeeeeery strict privacy laws too. idk if this would fall under it but part of me hopes the fk so. now im very hesitant on even loggin into the game now til SE rectifys this ASAP. and with SE still so radio silent about all this as of right now, i hate to feel this way, but until they do something about this and breaks their radio silence on it, i hope they are legally forced to do something since it so feels like an invasion of privacy at this point. just a sh*tty situation no matter how you look at it.

[@luna_theraider]

A client ID can be classified as personal information BUT SE can argue its use was necessary. However, the law also states that they need to take appropriate measures to prevent unauthorized access. So there is grounds for a case. Just depends on how good the lawyers argue it. Edit to add: I did a brief internet search for this info so take it with a grain of salt. Also if it leads to our email addresses being exposed then it is in violation of the law.

[@KitaiAryik]

@@luna_theraider yea wasn't sure how it would classify since im no lawyer here but god it leaves a bad taste in the mouth on this. SE really dropped the ball and its a HUGE oversight. don't believe it was intentional but they really need to make this a priority b4 they are made too. like ya said how its how lawyers would go with it.

[@envycaution5002]

@@luna_theraider as of right now what i can find it only shows alt names and retainer info, shows account id and content id. but the"database" is offline since hes keeping it private.

[@ElderGamerX]

It's obvious that the main use for this would be to stalk and harass people. Ironically, it would also help filter a lot of shitty behavior of people who make alts to do scummy things, and it would make it possible to verify who said what, like with the Tel Chan drama. Definitely a net negative though.

[@Zantetsudex]

This really highlights how inept the developers are, I'm sorry to say. Do they even know what penetration testing is? If they don't address this yesterday then they pretty much endorse it.

[@MuteMyst]

Imagine, being the guy who is universally known for taking out mods, if SE hits all mods with an Axe. This will follow him for LIFE. Gamers will hunt him down with the same tenacity and rage he has to make this. We have confirmation the ONLY reason he made this was because he was upset with people undercutting him on the Marketboard, and wanted to know who. Im sure you can figure out why.

[@DarkDyllon]

this won't take down mods, they might review their policy and say for the 100th time that mods are against ToS, but apparently anti-cheat is illegal in Japan due to it scanning your PC, in the same vein that modding anything is also illegal in Japan, so it's likely that SE will never see this as an viable option due to it going against the laws of the country their HQ is located in. if they could move for example SE's HQ to somewhere in the US, they could easily do this. (not entire sure as i'm not lawyer or law expert, but i've seen this been said a lot)

[@merlana3479]

I want the old blacklist back please. I find this mod creepy.😢

[@DarkDyllon]

In a sense, this doesn't affect us nearly as much as people believe, it's just that a lot of data about us gets exposed. but with the new BL system, you BL someone and they stop existing to you, they can't interact with you except if they randomly matched with you, but even then, they can't talk to you and you appear as "unknown 01" they can't even see your name.

[@JunglingFist]

not sure if I would say this gives "way too much information" I agree that there is some information there that would be incredibly hard if not impossible to find out without this stalker plugin But most of what it's showing you has always been very public either by right clicking them in game (with no plugins) or just a character search on the lodestone The information that's concerning and the reason why people think this is just absolutely terrible is 1. All ALTs information

[@KZorander]

It can't get your login information.

[@XenoJoker]

Damn I'm on console, so I guess I'm fucked.

[@liaysasineos7063]

There is only one good reason I can see using this plugin, and that is to help you identify people who are actually already harrassing/stalking you. This would lift the veil, and let you find out who a person really is. I still don't think this plugin is a good idea, I think its a terrible idea, and that there will be way more problems with this than there will be good. Hopefully Dalamud can do something, or maybe SE can do something on the backend side of things, but atm, this is very scary. Stay safe peeps o7

[@davidwilson5668]

But Question. If I have my whole lodestone privated aka every option set to hidden and I’m erased from lodestone search does this still show me?

[@chelsthegameruiner8669]

Apparently it doesn't, but this is what I've heard from a person I'm in an FC with

[@evetay-j5b]

it still shows you. even if you opt-out from their google doc, it doesnt fully erase you. theres nothing you can do about it until SE fixes this, even then not really cause they already have the data.

[@kurtisful]

All SE needs to really do is just encrypt the ID and such i'd imagine there ... though think SE probably should just go crazy and wipe out the plug-ins at this point ... Also the whole opt-in, opt-out things is big reason that Tomestone & FFLogs is awful too imo seeing you need to make an account to control your info that they just take and display ...

[@Medardusai]

It's not that easy to "just encrypt it". If you use the same hash function for all clients you have the same problem as before - every account is identifiable. So you go and give each client a salt to hash the account ids with - you have a similar problem. Now the account id is unique for every client but the plogon dev can just make a smart lookup in the database to correlate all the "unique" account ids based on their character names (e.g.). Also the salt needs to be server-side only, because otherwise the plogon can just read the salt and do something ridiculous like have rainbow tables in the database to reverse brute force the original account id. The only real solution is that SE reverts the blacklist feature and doesn't send the client any data the client doesn't need. Everything else is bound to lead to PII data collection.

[@verypurply]

They can't encrypt it in any meaningful way. It will be unencrypted in the client. Best thing they could do is nuke lodestone, and use the resources to handle blacklists server side. Oh, and sue those stalkers.

[@bobbobberson4295]

They could just not keep everyone's fuckin' account info like that client-side, too, that'd fix it. All the plugin does is grab shit that SE made publicly available since the blacklist update

[@popomipomi1024]

Terrible plogon, but the only good I could see that could come of this is finding people making alts to start drama/pretend being someone else (This happens alot on Faerie) to like... re-friend their friend group to either stir trouble or just relive that new friend high (super weird). Not saying that its a good plogon, just engaging in the convo. Ff14 players stay normal challenge, it truly is content draught.

[@indaDark]

you may find alts from people you blacklisted, or check if the person from drama number 285672 realy did say what people think they said, but this is a tool for attacking people. as already said, it does WAAAAY more harm than good

[@weirdestbudday5353]

Why would I need to join their discord to 'opt out'? Wouldn't I be able to just stop using it by uninstalling? Why the opt out part???

[@Guigasdm]

I am not one to ask for people to stalk some one... but it would be ironic if the developer got stalked huh?

[@animecrystal9]

It give info like a gm but there more if a bot user use's it I can see if they want out.

[@xiaocheng6643]

Not so fun fact: The person who made that plugin wanted to track people who undercut them on mb. "Stalker plugin" is exactly what this is meant to be

[@efknight]

I do have a positive use for this plug-in... It's not just something people can use to stalk someone trying to hide on an alt. I have people who harass me on alts and I want to know who they are.

[@DarkDyllon]

not necessary anymore, since the new BL system also erases all of their alts in an instant unless they make a new service account, which at that point, just BL that character and it's GG again. (more hassle to make a new service account than to BL someone) even if you get randomly matched with someone on your BL, you appear as unknown 01 and the BL person as well, you can't read each other messages unless you specifically right click on that message to allow it.

[@JayTheCorrupt]

This is some gross creepy shit, the only uses for it are nefarious. The best case is it's used for bullying, this is the one that gets plugins taken down and ruins it for everyone who likes gunbreaker to not sound like shit.

[@nanakon.8733]

Everyone talks about stalkers, where are these stalkers? If I had a stalker, maybe I'd have more fun.

[@victisomega4248]

Trust me, I stopped playing a 10 year old character, made an alt on a new data center because of it. It’s not fun. But I suppose on the flip side I met a lot of new, really great people so… maybe?

[@nemmitron]

Just got the news that the plugin was taken down by github staff

[@polmao]

What was even in that person's mind for creating something like this?

[@futurepastnow]

They could revert the blacklist change but this cat is out of the bag, the database of peoples' alts and retainers is going to be out there forever. What a mess.

[@chef416]

Most embarrassing community award.

[@ToraZhwan]

@XenosysVex : You write "make Square Enix take action as players are complaining of invasion of privacy" ... did you ever consider you are invading my privacy on this video in exactly the same manner? Maaaan... not cool. Rarely I get this pissed at anyone, but you truly ruined my day with this shit. Github reacted already and took down this shitty plugin.. When will you react, and take down this information you are spreading?

[@Rebel3000]

It was taken down, thankfully, now Dalamund needs to blacklist it so it cant be used by people that already has it.