Does More Weight = More Grip On Snow? The Ultimate Test!

[@tyrereviews]

Last video of the year! Thanks for being along for the ride, hopefully 2021 will bring even more awesome testing. You can keep up to date in Instagram, instagram.com/jonathan__benson or @tyre_reviews

[@Ghostlight89]

I supoose you wanted to type 'Snow handling' at 5:24 and not 'snow hanlding' as it is shown... :D But anyways, good video as always. :)

[@TheBikeMechanic]

Tyre Reviews You might want to look at the parameters for the Grabbers.... They are NOT a winter rated tire.

[@arthurbush8341]

Great job mate, love all the vids. Ignore all the nit pickers you are by far way ahead of anyone else on KZbin when it comes to tyre testing/reviews

[@ThesurfingMRIF]

You can’t disconnect the 4motion in the V6 So you used an amarok 2.0 without 4 motion and a 3.0 v6 ?

[@tire_reviews]

@@ThesurfingMRIF There''s 2 versions of the v6, this one has switchable 4wd and 2wd on a button.

[@el4266]

Can you test another myth: " Narrower tire in snow = more traction." Thank you.

[@Redhawk24]

Yes great idea!

[@piciu256]

I beelieve its not about the snow but about slush on the road.

[@DashCamSerbia]

It is BS. More surface area - more traction. The only situation where narrover tyres are better is if you want to dig all the way to the tharmac to get traction. So no, wider is better.

[@Kaz590]

@@DashCamSerbia sure?? That why really cars use skinny tyres in snow stages. It's putting more weight on to the contact patch

[@timdaavettila4114]

Not BS, slush creates a larger yaw moment on wider tires and also slush can be a larger hydroplane hazard than standing water

[@user-bo8yt4uc8b]

When people here had RWD Mercs back in the day, it was normal thing to throw a couple of 25kg sand bags to the recesses in the sides of the trunk for winter. It helped with the grip, and you could throw some sand in front of the tyre in emergency situation.

[@henriaaltonen6870]

Jep. This was common thing here at Finland!

[@shadow6687]

I thought you were talking and joking about F1 Mercs sandbags, really..

[@atarvhegde5210]

Also I belive those old diesel mercs didn't have any power and were painfully slow.

[@MrPomomies]

@@atarvhegde5210 It's not about are they slow or fast, it's about does it get the job done or not. And in last 40 or so years power has increase significantly. Take average Ferrari or Lamborghini or porsche from early to mid 80's and 2010's hot hatch might have more power (Such as Ford Focus ST, Vauxhall/Opel Astra OPC, VW Golf GTi)

[@atarvhegde5210]

@@MrPomomies Well if you know the difference in performance between the diesel and petrol w123 you would understand what I said. petrol w123 could accelerate to 100 in 10-12 seconds while diesels took 18-27seconds(300 td turbodiesel took 14 , 200d took 27). Also I meant comparing with petrol models.

[@jeremystig98]

I found myself stuck on a snowy hill today, about 13-15% with a fwd car and winter tires. I couldnt make it up so i turned around and then i had the idea to drive up the rest of the hill backwards and it worked out beautifully because the weight of the engine pushed down on the front tires a bit more and that was enough to make them grip.

[@BorisBidjanSaberi11]

That was pretty genius!

[@sanketjain9320]

While you did the right thing I think you reasoned it out a little incorrectly: The weight of the engine impacted in exactly the same way in both the cases. But in the second, the natural slope added even more weight on the driving wheels, thus giving them more grip and bailing you out.

[@JETZcorp]

I did this for almost a week to make it up the short but steep hill I lived at the bottom of. My little Civic hatch on Defenders (all-season) was the only car that made it out. Making a 90-degree corner at the bottom in reverse was interesting. I told my engineer roommate about how I did it, and the next day his Camry was down bottom of the hill with it's nose buried in a fence. I felt a little bad, but it was also really funny.

[@MultiSneakerLover]

@@JETZcorp he couldnt engineer out of that one😂😂😂😂

[@007Living]

That’s badass lol

[@dufonrafal]

As a general rule, trucks handle better with some load in the back because they're tuned for it.

[@sergioherrera3029]

Correct !!!!

[@AsianNIGMA]

I swouldnt say tuned but rather designed for it… all the weight of the engine and most of the cab is over the front axle, the back axle is designed to have a lot of payload over it

[@Theyralltakenfu]

I've actually put 2- 50lb bag of sand in the back of my 4Runner, and it feels more stable in the winter. I have more weight then a truck, but that weight just makes it feel better to me. I also run Winter Tires, so, I go at it at all angles.

[@Vic_714]

True.

[@clintk4691]

Canadian here, this is pretty common knowledge where I live. We get lots of snow and country roads aren't cleared often or well. Loading up the box with firewood, concrete blocks or snow is about the only way to get around in winter. Glad to see the knowledge being shared with others who may rarely or never drive in snow.

[@NLYS27]

That’s how I grew up in Mexico. During monsoon season we do the same for mud. Since 80% of trucks are RWD

[@elainenilsson5472]

Thank you. How about airing down. What are your thoughts on letting some air out of the tires and if so how much?

[@DEVUNK88]

I can tell you from my snow plowing experience here in the snow belt that I used to put about 1000lbs of coal in the bed of my truck (heat the house with a coal stove, kept it covered under my tonnue cover) I know this is not apples to apples but having weight does matter to traction With that 1000 lbs maybe a little less I had tons more traction, especially in a plow truck with a heavy plow hanging off the front of the truck which would take weight off the rear wheels. It is a very noticeable difference. compared to driving my othere vehicles in the snow, the biggest difference I noticed in the plow truck with weight on both ends is you can stop, those tires dig when you need to stop, I rarely get stuck, and when plowing large piles of wet heavy snow down long driveways or parking lots that half ton of coal in the back made the truck almost unstoppable flying down twisty roads I had a few close calls but never slid off the road or under steered very much. I have driven vw sedans, small 4x4 pickups, minivans(vans are beasts) and plow trucks without any weight or ballast in the back , driven in some pretty knarly conditions and I feel much safer and in control in a heavily weighted truck, no contest I have some good friends that still plow and one swears to sandbags in the back at least 500 lbs and the other drives a 2wd dump with a salt spreader with no issues its all anecdotal evidence but if you have a pickup of any size, load up on weight in the winter for sure also with the weight the truck rides better, more comfortable, a little quieter, less suspension rattles and whatnot

[@lh98]

Your friend with the 2wd dump might get even better traction by removing 2 of the 4 rear wheels. That’s the test I want to see. All the weight on 2 wheels should provide more traction vs the weight split out on 4 rear wheels.

[@chublez]

I always shovel the driveway into my truck bed. When the roads melt so des the ballast. No need to unload.

[@jam471975]

Hopefully you have a tonneau cover or topper otherwise by doing this you are creating a whiteout behind you and creating dangerous driving conditions for everyone behind you. Also in most states in the US if you have snow flying off or out of your vehicle you can be ticketed.

[@krebgurfson5732]

nice and you blind people behind you with the snow flying out the back!

[@stephengolding-webb8117]

An old builder we knew used to have a thick paving slab in the back of his rear wheeled drive Bedford Rascal pickup just for traction in the winter. Seemed to work for him. 😃

[@sebastijan2758]

As someone who has driven a RWD van unloaded and loaded (+1200kg) in the snow. I can say there is a massive difference in traction, going from constant wheelspin to driving like a tank. But braking is a bit worse.

[@ryanm540]

4x4 to go, Blizzaks to stop. You’re golden. And I’ve never heard of someone not keeping sand or kitty litter in the back of their truck during snow season. I mean unless it’s a work truck and they natural have crossover boxes, side boxes, wheel boxes, etc back there

[@leadnsteel1428]

My truck is a 2wd but I run Goodyear Duratracs. they are designed for winter and i also have pavers in the bed for weight. I also have an exhause brake too which helps stopping

[@miketroup847]

Any truck driver could have told you weight over the drive axle will help with traction

[@itftcomputers]

Doesn't help with braking though -)))) especially in snow and wet conditions.

[@miketroup847]

@@itftcomputers if you are not moving you won't need to worry about stopping

[@dr80ali]

@@miketroup847 :)

[@DigitalHaze65536]

Our school bus driver told us to sit over the wheel wells when trying to go uphill when he didn't bring the chains, it worked! (the school was way down a hill and further south so sometimes he'd be surprised we had snow on the road while the school didn't)

[@ALMX5DP]

Awesome review as always! Great to see the difference when loaded, I've always believe it helps (owning a 2wd truck) but seeing the differences in terms of inclines, times and control is fantastic to understand that further.

[@solentbum]

Carry three big workmates in the back seats, if you get stuck they can get out and push.

[@politicallyunreliable4985]

A Wisconsinite says these general winter traction concepts are not myths in snow & slush: *winter tires > A/S > summer (they're literally the ONLY thing touching the operating surface) *RWD < FWD < AWD/4WD *narrower contact patch > wider (rides more on top of snow/slush) *taller tire/wheel (reduction in applied torque) > shorter (greater % applied torque) *more weight over drive wheels, regardless of the drive system *lower engine RPM by both higher gear start & less throttle input gives better retained grip

[@PHILLIPS8822]

I put 250 pounds in back of my 2016 Tacoma it works all the time. Of course tires make a big difference as well. Good video and knowledge

[@jm9371]

I run 8 sand bags (400 lb) in the bed of my old GMC Sierra 4x4 in the wintertime... HUGE improvement.

[@rehamazlum188]

hey, can you test, air pressure effect on snow grip ?

[@SlyNine]

Lower pressure should increase mechanical grip but decrease handling. I'd love to see how much tho.

[@tyrereviews]

I tested this once and tried to make a video but it was a bad video. In short a little over pressure helped, not under!

[@SlyNine]

@@tyrereviews that's interesting. I wonder if that's because the middle of the tire rolling up and providing less contact.

[@SixtyFo]

@@tyrereviews A good video may be just to run through all the ideas you've tried but didn't make it into a full video, sorta a compendium of mildy interesting findings.

[@Carl_Jr]

@@SlyNine I'd guess it has more to do with air density at lower temperatures. Dense air moves slower (as does cold rubber) so overfilling may help offset the slower time the air (and rubber) has to react to the compression from the vehicle's weight.

[@robertshunter]

I run a layer of sandbags from the front bedwall to the rear axle, on a 4x2 pickup equipped with 3PMSF-rated mild all-terrain tires. It works fantastically well, and the ballast doesn't shift around while keeping the weight as low as possible.

[@brileri]

No big surprises there. Now a good continuation would be to compare FWD to RWD. FWD should be the better performer on snow.

[@IgorsPlay]

I keep asking for that for two years now 😂 But RWD must be BMW 🙂

[@brileri]

@@IgorsPlay well not really. To make it fair, the cars must be of very similar weight and age. Otherwise make or model won't make much difference.

[@SlyNine]

@@brileri the difference would come down to where the weight is located. You want the drive tires under the weight. This is why FWD cars have more traction in reverse. The weight shifts.

[@IgorsPlay]

@@brileri BMW because they have a 50/50 weight balance. I know is not possible to 100% precise, but there is a lot of flames when it comes to which is better.

[@brileri]

@@SlyNine yes, I know, but would be nice to know how much the difference is. And with almost all normal cars having the engine in the front, FWD is generaly better.

[@iain8837]

When I was 5y old, my dad had a Capri 3L Ghia, V6, two tone brown, square headlights. Scottish winters, believe me, we couldn’t go anywhere unless there was a 50kg bag of coal in the boot! Went everywhere sideways though, but that’s why he bought it! And people ask what got me into cars!

[@danwood4478]

We have been adding sandbags to our rear wheel drive cars and trucks for decades. It's been a known fact in upstate New York that adding weight increases traction. Thanks for the video.

[@lewlewis6511]

Always been known weighting the back of a RWD car will improve grip. Handy tip for those of you with a FWD vehicles which cannot climb a hill going forwards, if you can reverse competently you will find the car will climb the same hil in reverse easier, weight transfer at play. Where i live only two people could get up the hill one winter (days before everyone owned an AWD), that was myself with RWD on winter tyres and my neighbour who used to reverse his Pug106 up the same hill, everyone else had to go the other way where the hill was gentle. One other tip, narrower tyres work better in almost all cases in snow, working out of MINI compound in Cowley, when heavy snow lay on the compound those shod on wide lower profiles could barely move, whilst the more basic but otherwise identical models sitting on narrower high profile sizes had no trouble getting going, the wider tyred models could be got to move by reversing them instead.

[@marcs8563]

What about tire pressure? Be interesting to see a comparison of dropping pressure down to see what happens

[@iarreolav]

I'm moving north in a 2wd rwd truck soon amd your videos area extremely helpful. And give me confidence. I'm getting snow tires and adding weight to my truck.

[@pigeonpoo1823]

Ahhh, so if I'm going to rob a bank in the Arctic, use a quad cab pickup and always remember notes in the cab, coins in the bed. Excellent consumer advice. It's why I love this channel 😂

[@william_hartman]

If you had gone to a hardware store in any town in the USA that gets snow and asked "Does More Weight = More Grip On Snow?", you'd have a 100% agreement that it does and they put weight in the bed of their truck every winter. Still fun to see you test it and get the numbers though.

[@Matio25091]

8:29 - I know what you're trying to say, but more weight, does actually work like that in the dry. That's why F1 cars have wings and spoilers. Downforce provides more traction. If F1 cars could support a million kilos of downforce, they would do it (if rules would allow). More mass, at a fundamental level, provides more friction. It's just physics. The equation being F=μN where N is the normal force determined by mass x gravity. μ is a coefficient, so for this purpose consider it gone. More mass equals more friction. BUT, you are correct, adding mass to your Porsche will not give you better "performance", because the engine of course only has so much power per a given amount of mass. But it would in fact have more traction. Anyway, love your channel and am a new subscriber as of about a month ago. Keep up the good work! PS - The friction equation also explains why your air pressure test didn't go the way you expected. Friction is NOT a function of area. Surface area has never been physically involved in friction. A larger surface area does however, provide a larger contact patch and prevent you from sinking into sand and mud as easily. Digging holes is bad, but sinking in just enough to get the tread to bite is good. That's the delicate balance we all strive to achieve. Cheers!

[@jonlawrence6338]

Exactly what I was thinking when he said that. Adding downward force is what helps. A heavy object is only one way to do that. Drag racers and dirt cars use the weight of the whole car as leverage for extra grip

[@lulolee5325]

It isn’t as linear as you are trying to explain.

[@Matio25091]

@@lulolee5325 Actually it is. Friction is a linear function of mass

[@lulolee5325]

@@Matio25091 The tires of a car force the ground as much as there’s air pressure inside the tires. This isn’t linear because if the weight distribution of curb doesn’t exceed air pressure inside the tires this rule doesn’t work, but still... The car is basically on air pillows and not on a solid metal wheels, so some extra variables of physics applies as well... The width of tires matters but there are many other variables which might negate the advantage or disadvantage... etc etc...

[@Matio25091]

@@lulolee5325 That's true, there are tons and tons of other small variables that pretty much no one can know all of them. My main point was that mass plays a major part in friction, while surface area (for the most part) does not.

[@dickiedollop]

Just put 4 Hankook winter icepts on my 5 series RWD today as I’m driving wet wintry icy roads to and from work, I’ve used winter tyres on all my BMW’s and Audi and they do give a lot of confidence, I don’t drive like Juan Fanggio but I value mine and others safety. I love watching the tyre test videos as for me they are very informative so might think what a saddo but it’s just as well we’re not all the same.

[@ErikB750]

Nice to see this demonstrated .... however I’ve got the feeling and experience that really light FWD cars are quicker in snow than heavier FWD and RWD cars.

[@lewlewis6511]

Much of that is because most small FWD cars are sitting on narrow tyres, plus the car bodies being so light they are weighted heavily forward, consdierably heavier over the drive axle. Best 2WD cars i've owned for snow were a FWD Austin 2200 Landcrab, so heavy was this at the front that re-inforced (probably 6PR in old money) tyres were maker specfied, other best 2WD cars were both Volvo estates, namely a 245 and 940, both improved considerably with weight in the back, one bad year i rescued about 7 people who's mini bus couldn't get through the drifting snow, they all piled in the seats with about 3 sitting in the estate boot section, we got through snowdrifts that a Landrover driver would have thought twice about, narrow 185/195 section tyres on those Volvos. Since those days most of the time we've owned Toyota and Subaru 4WD cars, both fitted with either full winters or snowflake stamped all season rubber.

[@andyb4796]

Plus you can reverse up a hill in a fwd car, even better traction

[@Roadrage-oq5js]

We generally get pretty mild winters where I live in SE Pa. I'm too cheap to get 4WD pickups so I use snow tires and additional weight in the bed. For additional weight, I load some of the snow from my driveway into the bed. When I don't need the weight anymore, I go to the far end of a parking lot, drop the tailgate, quickly back up and slam on the brakes and BOOM! The snow slides right out. This works especially good if you have a couple of sunny days over 40 after the storm. You're welcome!

[@wildbill23c]

Didn't need a video to know this, been driving pickups for decades, add weight to the bed even on a 2WD pickup and you can go places that you normally can't without the weight. The larger and heavier the engine the worse the weight difference front to rear is, and the worse your traction will be. Adding a couple hundred pounds of weight in the bed helps a lot.

[@nirfz]

Fun to watch! But neither additional weight nor 4wd/awd helps much with stopping or getting around a corner. A fitting set of snow chains weighs less helps with both even in 2wd, and is not taking up as much space.

[@tomaskonkol8894]

Yes but you cant use snow chain on clean asphalt

[@nirfz]

@@tomaskonkol8894 They aren't permanently fixed. They are made to be put on and taken off in a few minutes without tools. Which judging by your name i would believe you already know, so what's the point? If you put 200kg of wheels in the back of your truck you loose boot space and still have nowhere near the safety of the chains. So what's worse?

[@tomaskonkol8894]

@@nirfz didn't say loading car with tyres or some lose load its good. But in worst case scenario you could have put some load in car and you can finihed you jurney, Im always recommend to use appropriate tires and worst case scenario all weather for same money save but all terrain, universal or summer tyres are not for winters even mild as in UK. Road safety and keeping legal standards on road are worst in UK from whole Europe.

[@paulomedina953]

What a beautiful pick up truck.

[@ViewlessSquid]

hey man, us americans know a thing or two about snow driving. our grandparents all drove rwd cars and they got around by throwing weight in the trunk. :P thanks for the video!! always good quality.

[@redneckrebuilds777]

Full tank of fuel helps too.

[@alexanderradetsky6994]

Parsec is a unit of distance, not time, but your reviews are so good I won’t hold it against you

[@alexanderradetsky6994]

(For those interested, 1 parsec ~= 3.086e13 kilometers)

[@tyrereviews]

It was for the star wars memes :)

[@petertorres8203]

Finally someone that actually knows how to drive in the SNOW does one of these videos 👍🏂⛷🛻

[@RichardJohnson-bb3ro]

Back in the 80s I lived in Hagerstown Maryland. During one snowstorm the local weather man said that adding weight to a vehicle does not help in the snow. My dad had done it and I knew it worked..

[@evansisgreat]

Just had my new all season tyres fitted for my covid window visit from London to Scotland. I'm definitely hoping for snow after watching this! Looked mega fun, but also I learned something.

[@hotflashfoto]

It would seem to be a fairly easy question to answer for those of us in the US. We've known for a long time that added weight in the winter helps trucks. Several truck owners that I know have 2x4 lumber set up to hold their bags of sand right over the axle, where it's needed the most. My truck always had tools and equipment in it, so no sand needed.

[@rusilver01]

Great video! I just researched this a couple weeks ago and couldn't find great information. I added some weight to the back of the truck and noticed an improvement. Great to see it verified by others.

[@hedydd2]

What is the point of revving? You should be starting in second gear at dead-idle engine speed and increase the revs very very slowly.

[@eubikedude]

Agreed. Although if TC is enabled, it should let the TC do the work, i.e. it has the power available and can (in theory) control it. One would also imagine this is an automatic (DSG?) and should pick the appropriate gear for the traction too.

[@SlyNine]

Yep. I like to think of it like bending a pencil. You have to do it very slowly or it breaks.

[@SlyNine]

@@eubikedude I haven't tried this, but I've heard people say add a touch of E brake and it'll cause the power to transfer, essentially making an open diff less open.

[@MrYlijumala]

I think the 1st and 2nd gear snow test have been done million times in youtube without a proper measurable difference. It's just thing old people say.

[@hedydd2]

@@MrYlijumala I did assume it to be an automatic with torque convertor, but if it is a manual, limiting torque at the tyre/snow or mud interface when starting off is very advantageous, but more diffficult than with an auto. However, this is a test of tyre performance so the stage at which they break traction is relevant. Maybe if a far less powerful truck was used, it would be easier to show different tyre performances.

[@jsponson]

More weight can be helpful when it's over the drive wheels and also if it provides better weight balance. For your 911 example, there's already plenty of weight over the drive wheels so if you want to add a ballast, it'd be over the front axle. It wouldn't improve traction but it would improve handling stability. Older models actually had lead ballasts on the front bumper. To the main point of the video, it was a great demonstration. Thank you!

[@richiewong1]

Have a good Christmas and New Year Mr B and all of the Tyre Review team.

[@tyrereviews]

Happy Christmas to you too, thank you

[@shconer]

F1 Cars are low mass high weight at speed due to downforce. More pressure on the tire = more grip.

[@secretsquirrel9722]

Exactly what I came to say! In fact they spend the majority of their $100m budget to achieve exactly that. 100's of kg of down force = downward pressure without the drawback of physical weight in all other axis. Also why you can have a 600+hp supra but only 300hp caterham's. Weight over drive axle.

[@samuelmee1386]

Good video. I drive a regular cab 4x4 - box empty- all season tires. I have to throw into 4 just as you proved in this video in certain conditions. i'm 'thinking of throwing on all weather nokian wrg4 on my ford f-150 for next winter- Canada driver. Love to see those tested on a truck. Good work on channel. Been watching for awhile. Thanks for the content.

[@ONDU86]

Getting a 7 pieces of 30kg weight bars from elevator service company solved all my traction issue on RWD Nissan Navara 165HP. Weight bars looks way better than sand bags. Highly recommend

[@tyrereviews]

Smart!

[@gregbrindley1581]

Left of field - for Australia (in the most part), but it doesn't matter. Who else on the planet is going to deliver - free of charge - information like this? And make it fun at the same time.

[@amwajameen]

This channel should get more recognition. Great work mate👍

[@tyrereviews]

Much appreciated!

[@MikeGratis]

Yup, weight is your friend in just about any 2WD, AWD or 4WD vehicle in the snow.... A definite Rule of Thumb here in New England. Good video, nonetheless, very informative. Side Story: Some years back I was in Bangor, Maine in February in a 2WD 1997 GMC Sonoma Extended Cab, old set of Cooper Discoverer tires. Got just a wee bit more snow than I had planned on, and things were slick. Had a heck of a time stopping after I took on exit off the highway on a curving, downward slope. Good Samaritan trucker saw me slide & stopped and flashed his lights so I could merge onto the road in front of him. After I got to my hotel, I used a snow shovel to fill & pack as much snow as I could into the truck bed. Upon driving out of the parking lot, there was a WORLD of difference in how the truck handled. Left that snow there while I was in Maine, as well my my return trip to Massachusetts. :-D

[@focus550]

Didn't RW drive cars in the 80's/90's before good Winter tyres came out used to do this, adding a few paving slabs in the boot for increased weight on the driving wheels.

[@steveo3785]

Remember on a ski trip in Austria 3 of us sat in the boot of a Volvo estate car easily getting up a hill. Even driving a minibus up a slope I had everyone move to the back to get traction on a slope.

[@Farley5927]

Can’t believe you didn’t test weighted/unweighted in 4x4 mode! That’s what I came for!

[@status101-danielho6]

I remember switching from the garbage and barely worn Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2's with X-Ice XI2's. It was like I added 500 pounds of passengers and ballast, the winter traction difference was amazing (and why I'll never buy a performance winter tire again).

[@benbradbury3665]

Another epic video. Well done. Sad to see this is the last of the year.

[@tyrereviews]

Thank you very much!

[@07slowbalt]

I was contemplating about spending money on new tires for winter since my garbage factory wranglers are half worn after 30k miles. Maybe i can squeek through winter now with a few pounds of sand in the bed of my f-150. Awesome review, look forward to many to come.

[@CerberusTenshi]

You then can also use the sand, when traction goes down to zero to put under your tyre for additional traction. Sand on compacted snow is way better to grab by the tyres than just compacted snow.

[@07slowbalt]

@@CerberusTenshi solid tip. I found out the hardway how useful small rock/sand can be on ice as well. Got stuck for almost 10 hours on black ice in my chevy cobalt. Late at night a volunteer fire fighter brought a shovel. I dug all the gravel and sand out of the drainage ditch next to me and with a little push it gave me the traction needed to climb up the hill. I was literally out in nowhere on one of the steepest hills ive ever been on. A nearly dead phone, no gps, and low on fuel made for a scary learning lesson.

[@Coolgamer400]

i remember a situation from school time, when our bus driver stucked at a hill and send all kids to the rear to get more traction, and it worked.

[@painterboy454]

That's why when you add weight in the back of a pickup truck keep it close as possible to the tailgate behind the rear axle for leverage plus put two thirds of the weight over the tire that begins to slip first.

[@VinDieselS70]

Used to have about 25 to 30 kg in the boot of my old BMW 2002 during the winter in Sweden and that made such difference, as it actually made the car drivable in snow, with a slight incline on unplowed roads. So extra weight on a rear wheel drive car does make a difference. Also, if you have an incline and driva a front weehl drive car and you get stuck, go back down the hill and reverse up the hill. 👍

[@tyrereviews]

That's a super cool car :)

[@VinDieselS70]

@@tyrereviews you've got good taste in cars then. 👍 I loved mine as it was actually the hatchback version of the same car. A 1972 2000 Touring in the even cooler Orange colour! A fabulous car but oh so tail happy 😅

[@atarvhegde5210]

@@VinDieselS70 A BMW 2002? To buy that car in india , I would have to import it on Transfer Of Residence , which would take 2-3 years and a house in a different country.

[@Dmbyers2002]

Weight absolutely helps in the winter. The F/R weight difference is more pronounced with a bigger box and less cab. These short 5’ pickup boxes are usually better that 6’ or 8’ versions and the less cab, extended or regular vs 4dr play a big factor as well. The bigger the weight difference the more noticeable the traction from box weight becomes.

[@nmnate]

My RWD tacoma always seems to feel a bit better with a couple hundred pounds of stuff in the back (especially if it doesn't shift around). Sandbags, bags of mulch / landscape materials seem to work great. Snow rated all-terrain tires here.

[@matemarijan3795]

Three 25kg cement bags were obligatory in my '89 Opel Omega when it was raining or ,god forbid, snowing

[@MrNickelbrille]

4 on a Mercedes 200D ;-)

[@bimble7240]

Lots to comment on here. First when driving these US style 4WD trucks and SUVs with selectable 2/4WD you can go even faster if you lock the centre diff because you'll get less slip and you can use the engine to brake more effectively in the lower gears. Yes totally agree with more weight in the rear on 2WD vehicles. I have done this with BMW 3 series estates on snow tyres with an extra 80kgs in the back and they are unstoppable. Also did this with Sierras (on standard tyres) back in the day and they handled very well. Regarding rear engined cars - e.g. 911s, I learned to drive on snow in an old air cooled beetle which went very well but only after putting 40Kg of ballast in the front, otherwise the front wheels would not grip at all. No braking and no steering. So you need to add the weight to the front of a 911, and preferably on narrower front tyres. Just have a look at the skinny tyres rally cars use on the snow stages to see what I mean.

[@jmorrow6913]

A truck is designed to carry stuff. It was not designed to be driven empty. So off course it drives better with weight. My experience is for most pick ups the "sweet spot" is 1/3 to 1/2 payload for added weight.

[@johnossendorf9979]

As a resident of North eastern NY State with 33 years of 2wd and 4wd pickup truck driving experience, I have driven mud tarrain tires in the winter and they are not what I would choose for cold icy snowy conditions. Good allseason tires would be a better choice for on road winter driving. As to weight over the rear axel, I always kept 200 to 300lb in my 2wd's and the same in 4wd's when plowing snow or when conditions are very bad. As a general rule adding weight to the rear of a pickup truck will improve drive traction.

[@motojojo_]

Remember driving a Series 3 Landy, empty it handled like garbage, but stick some weight in the back and it got a lot better. Reason was the rear suspension was designed for that extra weight, unloaded it was too stiffly sprung, get some weight in the back and the suspension was more compliant

[@JCpNK]

Here in the states lots of people have 4x4 trucks.. I’ll take a front wheel drive vehicle with snow tires any day over a 4x4 truck with off road tires.. The people who put weight in the back know from experience it works.. Not sure why it came as a surprise to you lol.. My wife and I have to drive in the snow to work so we have the best vehicles for it, Subaru’s, not trucks

[@BiggMo]

0:29 “...very American problem...” as an American that drive a pickup this cracks me up every time you say this. Want to know another American problem? Ego and the need (want really) for an aggressive looking tire on our trucks. So may AST/AWT look anemic on an American pickup

[@tyrereviews]

Even knowing what I do, the second I'm in the states I'm getting a raptor on big AT tyres :(

[@ericmichel3857]

How this channel does not have millions of subs already is beyond me. Great job answering questions we all wonder about but don't have the resources to answer, your reviews are fascinating and very thorough. I have seen other channels like this (great content and production quality) with low subs, meanwhile some ditzy teenager talking about utter rubbish has millions of subs. I have seen with channels like this eventually something clicks and they blow up, I have no doubt that will happen here, keep up the great work! I can imagine a car show with this sort of test reviews with you, Chris Harris, maybe someone like Randy Pobst. I really started to hate shows like Top Gear/grand Tour when they get so far away from the subject of the show and put so much more emphasis on trying to be funny with zany unrealistic scenarios. Personality and a bit of fun is good but stay on point! I think folks like you and Chris Harris get that so I am rooting for you and have no doubt it will happen. Cheers

[@joshuacurley417]

What an interesting little truck. I would love to take my GMC Sierra out on that track! As a western Canadian (most of us drive trucks out here) I've always put weight in the pan of the truck, and run four proper winter tires. It just seems like second nature, but it was neat to see a back to back comparison

[@n45w73]

yes 2 bags of sand, and more intersting if you get stuck on ice you already have sand to help you !

[@ScottBissell]

I learned this is High School Physics. Your experiment works out just like the equations predicted. In snow, the coefficient of friction is the limiting factor for acceleration so weight helps (within a calculable range). In dry conditions, the weight and torque are more the limiting factors.

[@robdixson196]

One of the biggest problems with pickups is the tires are chosen for looks rather than utility. For the most part tall skinny tires work way better in off road conditions. There is a reason why model a tires look the way they do.

[@gjkMN]

When I was but a wee lad our school bus got stuck in the snow. Our bus driver told everyone to move to the back of the bus, so we all piled back there and sure enough he drove out of the stuck situation.

[@lowercherty]

Drive like there's an egg between your foot an the gas pedal and you'll go a lot further. I remember in college seeing freshmen with Barracudas, Mustangs, and Camaros trying to climb a hill in snow with the gas floored going nowhere. I got tired of waiting and just eased around them in my Buick with narrow tires and lots of weight in the trunk.

[@mo07r1]

I agree with the egg idea; i was parked in a friends driveway on packed snow and needed to move it up the hill. He tried first since I was sleeping, but wasn't used to a manual, and only spun. I hop in, and being very gentle, didn't even slip.

[@JCintheBCC]

Great video. While it may just confirm the common belief, it's nice to see it quantified instead of "my friends jumped up and down in the back, and that got us out the ditch, so it works". I still recommend including air temp and surface temp for your snow and ice tests. The temperature can make such an enormous difference to the behavior of the snow, that I think it leaves a gap in the information considering how well documented and quantified everything else is.

[@floydpink6238]

Thank you.. next Thanksgiving i planning to drive from California to Chicago.. snow is my scare.. but you really explained how can do this.. Thanks my friend. You really helped me.. I wish you have a wonderful Thanksgiving day with your family.. thanks again bye..

[@tyrereviews]

Have a safe drive!

[@Snakes709]

This is what i did to drive my SRT-10 Ram in canadian winters. My buddies laughed at me that i bought a 500rwhp truck with our winters. Good winter tires and 300lbs of sand in the back handled better then my buddies F150 with 4wd on all season tires.

[@webmastersof]

Here in Michigan in the the dinosaur days we used to take cinder blocks and put them into the trunks of the old cars and would almost never get stuck. Our winters here can be brutal !

[@opera93]

Thanks, I agree , with my REAR WD, 2007 Canyon ...( thouGH TO STUDDED WINTER TIRES(* another issue) IN HELENA Valley MT(* from my Original WARSAW INDIANA), have used this technique all my life!!, etc. ..We have lots of Ice/ black ice, / melt/ pack snow longer here in Winter: but I put approx 100 LB (45.5 KG),AT REAR tailgate balanced across rear Bed: starting slow in a higher gear(** no reviving/s or spinning tires)*, handling fine, air pressure normal( I have TOW PACKAGE on truck).....also, keep KITTY LITTER, SUPER ICE MELT AND A SHOVEL IN VEHICLES,..COMMON sense helps: for instance lower speeds, avoid Deep snows,etc.

[@JETZcorp]

For RWD, the closer you can get to a Porsche, the better for traction. To this day my dad won't stop talking about how good his Karmann Ghia was on snow and ice back in the day.

[@terrywilliams759]

I delivered bottled water for 7 years and a full-size Ford F-350 Super Duty when it was not loaded it was horrible in the snow when it was loaded with 5000 lb of water I can go through anything by the way that's a beautiful truck

[@federicobaldovin2437]

Of course! My BMW has 70/80 kg of sand in the trunk as default winter package😅😅😅

[@atarvhegde5210]

What do you mean?

[@federicobaldovin2437]

@@atarvhegde5210 Just joking... my BMW e46 is RWD and when there is snow (even with winter tyres) it is not very good, same as you can see in the video... I live in the alps, that's why in winter I always apply more load behind in the trunk to get better grip :)

[@atarvhegde5210]

@@federicobaldovin2437 Anyways beemer with their close to 50:50 ratio would be horrible on snow. A Beetle would do better.

[@federicobaldovin2437]

@@atarvhegde5210 I agree! I love my car handling :) it is only on snow that I've to do some "modification" :D Anyway after that, RWD on snow are really funny to drive :P

[@atarvhegde5210]

@@federicobaldovin2437 Well , I am pretty sure the average driver can't drive a beemer with all season tyres on snow.

[@cameroncollins2493]

Don't find these results massively surprising, pick-up trucks are designed to work better when they're fully loaded, as are a lot of vans. Still interesting to watch though!

[@garage5125]

everybody that lived in an eastern block and had a lada, volga, moskvich or something front engine rear wheel drive, experienced this every winter:-)) load up and go:-))

[@tyrereviews]

:D

[@dnltbrca]

i love this. It made me curious when reading the title and gave me a very satisfying answer by the end. 10/10 would watch again. now does this mean rear or read-mid engine cars are quite good in the snow? i'd love to hear from someone with experience on this

[@tyrereviews]

THank you, and yes they have better traction than front engined RWD cars

[@richarda996]

The old vw bug could handle mud and snow better than normal front engine rear drive vehicles . With a good set of mud grips/ winter tires one could go almost anywhere. Experience and use of the hand breaks really helped.

[@JRSLASH]

This is really helpful. I drive a 2wd pickup and when I drove in the snow for the first time it was too slippery

[@michalklimek]

No surprise at all. My grandpa used to load his Fiat 125p in early 80s with two 50kg bags of potatoes during the winter.

[@fastclind8996]

Great test! Could you please make this procedure again with an RWD sedan (maybe BMW) on wintertyers. Please additional with high and low air pressure on ice, thick and hard snow. Wich is the best position for extra wight: behind the seats or in the trunk? Thanks a lot from Germany.

[@johnbarron4265]

The results of this test apply just as well to RWD cars as they do RWD trucks. The more you shift the static weight distribution to the rear of the vehicle, the more traction you will have on any road surface. The further to the rear of the vehicle you place the weight, the greater the shift in static weight distribution. For this reason, try to put the additional weight in the trunk if possible, and as far the rear of the trunk as possible. You may have to increase your rear tyre pressures to maintain the same handling balance with the new weight distribution.

[@ouch1011]

I would argue that, at least for the average driver in this part of the world, this would actually make the vehicle/driver less safe in real world conditions. Many drivers seem to use acceleration ability as their only judgement of road safety, so having the ability to accelerate more quickly without the increased ability to stop or steer will give them a false sense of security. AWD/4WD causes the same issue. It is extremely common for people here to put weight in the back of their trucks, especially 2WD trucks, when it snows. It is also very common for them to get stuck, crash, end up on their roof, etc.

[@TheMikeguy7776]

Actually adding weight (or a force) is exactly how traction works.

[@SlyNine]

For the track test you'd have to tune the suspension for no load and tune it for a load. Because it's not just weight, but tire compliance changes because the suspension oscillation timing is different.

[@tyrereviews]

Fair point, but a bit out of the scope for this demo :)

[@SlyNine]

@@tyrereviews but still. Wouldn't it be fun to play with different weight and suspension settings. It's probably a lot easier with sim racing, an excel sheet, and just editing some values, lol.

[@zerobucks9]

thumbs up for doing the last run 4x4! fun video. Thanks!

[@tyrereviews]

Glad you liked it!

[@fredygump5578]

In northern Minnesota and Wisconsin, it is customary to achieve that elusive 50/50 weight balance by storing a weeks worth if firewood in your pickup truck.

[@ercanyesiltas]

First time i spot a typo in your videos. Snow hanlding. Happens to all of us

[@tyrereviews]

Drat! Thanks for spotting

[@blacksaxcam]

This is great, Jonathan! Winter and trucks in one video, yay! I'm fascinated by the results. In Canada (winter and trucks!) the benefits of weight in the bed are accepted as gospel, but the details are really interesting to break down. Seeing the hill starting tests, the effects of traction control were evident (and a reminder that the more weight you've got, the more you're really stuck once you've buried yourself).

[@andrewsnow7386]

Good of you to prove that this works. But a couple of times while out 4-wheeling in the snow, I've encountered people shoveling snow into the back of there 4X4 pickup truck thinking it would help get them unstuck. Didn't work.

[@Cornwall1888]

I’m guessing the effect wouldn’t be as obvious in a bmw with around 50/50 weight distribution. I have no problem in my bmw in moderate snow with winter tyres

[@alexisthemexican]

depending on your drivetrain. You probably gain more off the line traction, but stability would probably be affected. My guess is push more around corners rather than oversteer.

[@Yomonsterman106]

I always found lower throttle input helps your tires from not spinning as much... Working like how abs helps stopping but opposite use for acceleration. Maybe that's just me 🤔

[@NateDawg0007]

Great video, this is a very north american problem where we have lots of pickup drivers and lots of snow.

[@Alpinwolf5]

Funny that your VW pickup does have traction control and yet skimped out on the LSD out back. It seems the computers can't do what limited-slip hardware can, since you've still got one wheel spinning while the other side is stopped. You'll never get anywhere in snow that way, especially in a pickup. Securing your load might help your handling too. It can be "upsetting" for your 200+ kilo load to shift as you corner and bang into the side of the bed. Always best to make sure your cargo can't shift.

[@andromeda6937]

Well done! Great analysis