Tywins Introduction Is Very Different In The Books

Tywin is one of the pivotal antagonists in the game of thrones Novels and as such his character is given plenty of attention in terms of how he is presented. While this is true for both the show and the novel, the methods used are exceptionally different from on another.
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/ loremonkey
#gameofthrones #houseofthedragon #georgerrmartin #fireandblood

[@TheHellyeahmen]

The first seasons actually had a lot of brilliant show-only stuff

[@loremonkey]

Truly. They kept very faithful, at least to the intention of the books. It really makes the last few seasons more dissatisfying considering the contrast of how good the writing was in the earlier ones.

[@CommanderLongJohn]

​@loremonkey I think the first season is the most 'faithful' and best written, but going past that D&D just muffed up what could've been a fantastic adaption with only a few exceptions. Admittedly, I'm a huge book snob, but I also started off as a show-normie halfway into the series, so until I really read/listened to the books and spent loads of time reading and talking about them, I absolutely loved the show (until the final season). D&D were just the absolute worst choice, in retrospect I'm about 96% sure those two literally didn't even finish reading the books before being commissioned to make the pilot/first season (they were going to start the pilot with John Arryn dying from poison and Cersei Lannister standing over him 😵‍💫), there's so much wrong with it all I could go for 10min straight in detail but you get the point.

[@DirtyDan6767]

Truly, an unconditionally loving father in both versions

[@loremonkey]

My man killin the parenting game

[@Ironcorgi2]

I actually really liked the Tywin intro in the first season. It felt like a Jaime pov chapter in game of thrones book we never got

[@loremonkey]

It was an interesting perspective to get. Overall, I think it worked and was a positive change

[@deathdeathington]

The scene in the books in which we meet Randall Tarly is similar to the show's introduction to Tywin.

[@li32150]

You beat me too it!

[@loremonkey]

The Tarlys family dynamic is quite similar to the Lannisters now that you mention it.

[@MrMustache-yn4zm]

@@loremonkey except the tarlys are worse

[@scoliosis9478]

@@MrMustache-yn4zmI wanted to argue against this but honestly you’re right as much as Tywin hated Tyrion Sam still got worse treatment

[@loremonkey]

@@MrMustache-yn4zm What makes you say that?

[@alamandrax]

What I saw as obvious metaphors were that in the North, a Direwolf and a Stag killed each other. And elsewhere, the Lion was slowly stripping the Stag down for parts.

[@loremonkey]

Man, you must have crushed in english class. Thats actually really clever now that you mention it

[@ManDudeBro.]

Bro I love the response 😂 "crushed it in English class" is legendary

[@loremonkey]

@@ManDudeBro. The teacher loved this guy

[@senorsombrero1275]

I thought the exact same thing, and Its also ironic that in the show he goes at length about how family and legacy are important and his number one priorities, all while disembowling the symbol of another family, indicative of what he and his children are actively doing to House Baratheon. The sanctity of family and legacy are important, as long as its your own family in question.

[@kebabylon]

can’t believe OP didn’t get this - so much waffling without saying anything substantial

[@fragsties4118]

Also, the deer represents the Baratheon that the Lannisters will destroy soon A deleted scene shows Tywin fishing (and Pycelle showing its true face which is not senile at all, not in the books but also very nice scene) right before the red wedding that he helped organizing, which will destroy the Tullys, and their sigil is a fish Really clever writing it is unbelievable that the same guys will write season 6-8

[@loremonkey]

I know that scene! I actually made a video on it. The symbolism is perfect, though I always assumed Tywin just had huntsman hobbies until someone pointed it out, lol

[@theberserker6000]

Im pretty sure its GRRM who also helped in the screenplay and creative desicions like he does in the HoD today. As time went on, D&D got more place and credit for the show which explains the infamous season 5-8 results.

[@loremonkey]

@@theberserker6000 A shame really. The first half of GOT was really impeccable TV

[@zaviersyed8483]

Charles Dance’s performance is incredible and adds so much, but having him literally butchering a stag is pretty on the nose lol

[@loremonkey]

Tbh, I love stuff like that. But I'm gonna be real with you. The symbolism of that flew right over my head until someone told me about it 😄.

[@eliteteamkiller319]

Which is why it’s awesome.

[@AodhanBeag]

It’s also symbolic foreshadowing of Lannister Lion butchering of Deer considering Baratheon sigil is a Stag

[@loremonkey]

Really great metaphor imo

[@DoakFelix-qr8uw]

The show has Tywin dissecting a stag… no comment? The only thing more obvious would have been a mounted stag head hung on the wall while Tywin was dissecting a wolf.

[@loremonkey]

I just thought Tywin was an avid huntsman. Man needs his hobbies

[@erickfromthegrave]

0:48 i thought he was giving Jaime the army to raid in and around Riverrun since i believe he says "We're going to take them to Catelyn Stark's childhood home and remind them that Lannisters pay their debts"

[@loremonkey]

That's certainly an objective as well. The riverlands is on the way to the Eyrie

[@AstaraBrightwing]

That's exactly what he's doing. Tywin gives Jaime half the Lannister army and sends him to siege Riverrun. This is why Robb pulls Jaime into the Whispering Wood; so he can break the siege at Riverrun, free Edmure's forces to join him, and take Jaime as a hostage. Never, at any point, were Jaime or Tywin going to attack the Vale. The closest anyone comes to attacking the Vale is Tyrion, who wants revenge on Lysa and promised the Mountain Clansmen he would do so. "That's certainly an objective as well. The riverlands is on the way to the Eyrie." --@loremonkey I certainly wouldn't go about trusting a KZbinr who won't admit to being obviously wrong, and instead tries to gaslight you about it.

[@matthewdrummond5904]

@@AstaraBrightwingl n njjj

[@SapphireSolstice67]

@@AstaraBrightwing My thoughts exactly, but you said it better.

[@macleunin]

In the show he didn’t give Jaime half his army to go to the Vale, he was just splitting his forces, but they were still fighting in the Riverlands and preparing for the arrival of the Starks, just as in the books.

[@pacocheung1864]

Tywin in season 2 especially with Ayra in disguise is some of the best of the two characters, even though that entire plot line was never in the books

[@loremonkey]

Every scene with arya and tywin is stressful af

[@TheHellyeahmen]

the "Casterly rock with hair" line caught me off guard when I was reading it for the first time ngl Tyrion is pretty good at this

[@loremonkey]

Tyrions, quips and dialouge, really are the best.

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

Wooo long content about the nicest of Dads. I loved the show introduction it was great. Thank you for the wonderful video.

[@loremonkey]

Father of the year award to Mr. Lannister

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

@@loremonkey exactly😄

[@judeconnor-macintyre9874]

I mean compared to your dad he probably seems pretty good Ser Aegor.

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

@@judeconnor-macintyre9874 😂😂😂

[@loremonkey]

@@judeconnor-macintyre9874 OOF the shade

[@91Caesar]

This kind of stuff is why I always get frustrated by people complaining when the smallest things are changed in adaptations. The different media formats fundamentally change how you convey information. A good adaptation isn't just turning book text into script 1:1. A good adaptation must rewrite its story to convey the same themes, arcs and events in a way that best suits the visual media.

[@loremonkey]

That's a fair point. I feel like the distaste for any changes comes from how frequently film pays little respect to the source material, often as if they didn't even bother looking at it. This is an example of how it can be done well

[@Ironcorgi2]

I kind of wish they had included the entirety of scene after Jaime was captured because Tywin is pissed that Cersei dismisses selmy, gave Janos harranhal and is more giving props to tyrions points.

[@DrewBoivie]

Normally, I'd prefer an adaptation be faithful to the original work. The exception to this is when the original work can be improved...which it usually "isn't" (not can't). This just demonstrates how phenomenal the show really was in the early seasons.

[@loremonkey]

Early GOT was a phenom. A rare instance of a show improvement

[@Iforgotmyname88]

Top 10 medieval dads of all time

[@loremonkey]

I fear who the other 9 are

[@karlfranz5229]

​@@loremonkeyCraster takes 1st place for sure

[@macleunin]

Let’s give credit where credit is due: the scene in the tent with Jaime is excellent. We all love to bash D&D for the abysmal writing of the last seasons, but they did an excellent job in the beginning, creating scenes and dialogues that weren’t in the books, but were very well written and contributed a lot to the story.

[@loremonkey]

When the spurce material is there yo go off and respected, I have no issue with them changing things. Especially when they work this well

[@Farron6]

You've got a few key facts wrong here. 1. Tywin has no intention of attacking the Vale of Arryn, he is sending Jaime to raid the Riverlands to send a message to Catelyn Tully in particular and the rest of the Great Houses in general, that is you do not touch his family without repercussions. The Vale is a mountainous region with a large knightly army that he doesn't want to antagonise just yet with the Northmen heading south. 2. He isn't just butchering a deer, he is gutting a Stag, the House of Baratheon, literally preparing it for dinner in the same way his House is going to strip the Baratheon throne. 3. He calls Jaime a fool for multiple reasons. First his original plan was send to Gregor to raid the Riverlands as this would draw out Ned Stark so he could be captured in exchange for Tyrion, Ned being a man of honour would be compelled to come for Gregor himself. This was foiled however by Jaimes attack on him where Ned's leg is broken by his horse. This leaves him to send Beric Dondarrion instead. Secondly as he merely maimed him at this point Tywin just thinks Jaime should have just killed him outright. Ned is still influential at court so if in Tywin's mind if he couldn't be captured then he is better of dead instead of a thorn in future plans. Luckily for the Lannisters, Ned is a fool when it comes to court politics.

[@loremonkey]

These are all good points. The last one I hadn't considered. I always wondered why he would want Ned deas, as he would serve as a good hostage

[@Farron6]

@@loremonkey he would prefer him alive but if Jaime was going to attack him in the first place he might as well be dead to weaken the starks position overall and make Robert Baratheon even more reliant on the lannisters

[@Ironcorgi2]

It’s likely Tywin considered it likely lysa would have gone to the defense of her girlhood home.

[@loremonkey]

@@Ironcorgi2 It's a fair assumption to make

[@loremonkey]

@@Farron6 That makes sense, but I feel like Robert would demand Jamie's head if he killed him

[@umapessoaqualquer3688]

Man, your channel needs to be seen more. Do you intend on going through other fantasy/fiction universes or only AWOIAF?

[@loremonkey]

Thanks! I'm trying to get it more attention. I certainly do plan to go into some other universes. ASOIAF is what I'm sticking with for the moment as there is a ton and the niche helps with growth. I do have some ideas to diversify down the road

[@davidcal67]

🔥 Video. Straight Gas

[@somanken]

Not a huge element but one thing i love is it shows how tywin refuses to waste his time, even time alone he spends butchering a deer, while its purely a show element its something i love.

[@loremonkey]

Really sells the whole demeanor of "I'm too important for this" or "I have better things to do"

[@danielriley7380]

Charles Dance actually learned to skin a deer for this scene. It was obviously edited in the show because you can skin a deer on a table in the length of of that scene (and deers are usually hung from the ankles).

[@somanken]

@@danielriley7380 O really, thats cool! honestly not shocking to hear any of the actors in early thrones did extra work to better the roles, the acting in it is so spectacular

[@felixhong]

Great analysis,thanks for the video!

[@loremonkey]

I'm glad you liked it! Thanks for watching and commenting

[@johnmitchell4043]

you forgot to mention the deer represents house Baratheon

[@loremonkey]

Tbh I didn't even think of that until I had already finished the vid and people told me, lol

[@eliteteamkiller319]

Both were great for their medium. It my personal opinion is that the show version here is better.

[@loremonkey]

I like them both for their own reasons. I dont think one is worse or better

[@samueltubb7931]

Jamie does have chapters, I am on book 3 and he is one of 6 characters perspectives

[@loremonkey]

yeah, but not in book 1. That was my point

[@samueltubb7931]

@@loremonkey ahhh

[@natsuno420]

Liking your channel keep it up

[@loremonkey]

Thanks, will do!

[@theberserker6000]

The deer/stag is also a symbol of House Baratheon. The other meaning of this scene is that Tywin is butchering and skining the symbol of the Royal House, presumably for later use or to wear it. Exactly how the Lannister claims the Iron Throne later on.

[@loremonkey]

Love that. Symbolism rocks when implemented appropriately

[@jamesmullen3068]

Isn't the deer also meant to be symbolic of House Baratheon?

[@loremonkey]

It is. Symbolism on point

[@Lord_Taron_Texas]

Great Video Bro Monkey! Tywin is one of the best characters without a doubt. complex and simple at the same time

[@loremonkey]

Thank you. You're right. Intelligent, but with a straightforward motive

[@Lord_Taron_Texas]

@@loremonkey and that's the same way I like my videos, and if you keep making your videos that way you've got a lifelong subscriber in me

[@loremonkey]

@@Lord_Taron_Texas I'll do my best!

[@Lord_Taron_Texas]

@@loremonkey you got this homie

[@Val-wj3vy]

I’m not fond of the show, but that was a good moment.

[@loremonkey]

Did you not like the show generally, or specifically because of how far it got from the books?

[@Val-wj3vy]

@@loremonkey I didn’t care for the show because of how D&D adapted it in terms of how it didn’t work out thematically, and it’d of made more sense if the adaptation was animated and by better directors and producers. The acting for most of the parts was VERY good though, and the show wouldn’t have survived that long without it.

[@Val-wj3vy]

That and they clearly didn’t like Fantasy that much, I can only imagine what aspects of the story could have been enriched if they had Lady Stoneheart in it because it was an important component of the novels, and Martin already had an idea how he intended the series would conclude. And while I’m ok with killing off characters it probably had a negative impact on the finale season.

[@chrisdierdorff2197]

The convo is the tv show makes no sense tho; Jaime is kings guard. If Tyson wanted to make him the future of the family then he’d remove him from the kings guard. He was running Kings Landing at that point. The book version makes more sense bc Tyrion is actually the future of the Lannisters. Also bc Jaime and Cersei are the mad kings bastards but…..

[@badyoutuber1986]

Jaime and cercie are twins kids plane Lannisters are known to genetically have twins within a generation or two it's cercie comparison to the mad king that gets people confused but that character aspect is more about Jaimes future décisions rather than cercies true paternal parent.

[@loremonkey]

Tywin isn't afraid to bend the rules in that aspect. Especially if the Lannisters control the crown, you can make up whatever rules you want. Its also possible tywin was reffering to jamie in the role he wpuld play to preserve the family

[@subutaynoyan5372]

Tywin couldn't remove him from kingsguard. Actually, Barristan Selmy's dismissal by the king, and Jaime losing a hand gave him the idea of removing Jaime from his vows. They were going to use Joffrey's stupidity as a pretext but Jaime just refused

[@eh6623]

Jamie is a POV character though?

[@loremonkey]

Not in the first book. His sections don't come until the later novels

[@bonzibuddy4483]

That's no deer he is butchering, it's a stag.

[@loremonkey]

Sigil of the Baratheons at that

[@noone-jc1ob]

He’s butchering a stag, not a deer. ;)

[@loremonkey]

Antlered boi

[@Galvatronover]

2:25 Jamie is a point of view character

[@loremonkey]

Yes, I was referring to the first book.

[@Galvatronover]

@@loremonkey oh ok

[@weseemabdullah2570]

He is also butchering a stag, the sigil for the Baratheons.

[@loremonkey]

Imma be real that went right over my head until someone told me

[@olekdesign3996]

more asioaf content

[@loremonkey]

That's most of my channel, lol. Stay tuned!

[@SharpestFox]

I had to click off the video the moment this guy said Tywin gave Jaime half his army to raid the Vale of Arryn. It’s such a massive and obvious error that if this guy couldn’t catch it then nothing else this guy says afterwards can be credible.

[@DirtyDan6767]

Idk kinda sound like ur a dumbo

[@nicholas4727]

The fact that there was brilliant show only stuff early on in GoT pretty much destroys the narrative that d&d derailed the final season because they didnt have GRRM's writing as a backbone. D&D could have written a decent ending but they were just lazy and rushed the narrative because they wanted to be done.

[@loremonkey]

I think both can be true, really. Can they make show only things that are engaging and interesting? Absolutely, but there's already an infrastructure there with the books. Without the novels, it's waaaaay more work. Could they have cobbled together sonething decent? Maybe but the novels foundation can't be understated