Game of Thrones PERFECTED Robert Baratheon In One Scene

In one single scene, Game of Thrones perfectly displays why Robert Baratheon is oblivious, negligent, and flat out delusional. But they also capture that Robert is 100% right about at least one thing and before the end of this video we’ll definitely touch on that.
So this is King Robert. This is Quenn Cersei. And well this is Dan Benioff and DB Weiss. Look, they wrote this episode, they wrote this scene, adn I know a lot of people are not huge fans in how they handled the last half of Game of Thrones, but since I’m going to be praising this scene they wrote - I think it is important to recognize that at one point, they really did get it. This is not from the books, this scene is 100% original to the show Game of Thrones.
#asoiaf #gameofthrones #robertbaratheon #cersei #cerseilannister #georgerrmartin

[@DCharles]

There’s at least 50 comments about the music. I can’t remove it, but definitely more critical with the music moving forward.

[@hawk66100]

Why not?? Smh.

[@GarroshTV]

"Robert was neither mad nor cruel, he simply had no interest in being King." - Lord Varys

[@SamBrickell]

Robert should have been Minister of War or some such.

[@tiringsarcasm]

⁠@@SamBrickellHonestly if Jon Arryn’s heir, Denys Arryn had just survived then Jon Arryn would have been a very tempting choice. Even then however Robert would still have been the favourite pick for kingship at the time. Since he had some (albeit distant) Targaryen blood, towering at around 6 and a half feet tall, the young and handsome Lord paramount just made more sense at the time.

[@YourXavier]

Ironically, that's the same as D&D's problem : An early success spiraled into a long career that they really had no interest in doing properly.

[@Karim896]

​@@tiringsarcasmRobert Blood as a claim is nonsense. He took the kingdom by conquest not as a Targaryen

[@subutaynoyan5372]

All Robert should've been was lord of Storm's End @@SamBrickell

[@alessandrajackson3768]

Robert was in love with the idea of Lyanna Stark. He believes she would have made him a better man, without ever really knowing her.

[@baselhills865]

Sansa most obviously, but also Robb and Jon all have the childlike fantasies of chivalry and heroism which motivates them when they're first starting to take actions as young adults. Robert may have been the same, he wanted to be the brave heroic Knight who saves his Princess from the evil Prince and lives happily ever after. He defeats the evil King and the Prince but his Princess dies, that missing piece of that fantasy gets stuck in his mind and causes him a lot of grief, which he tries to overwhelm with food and women and fighting. He didn't rebel to be King, or even to overthrow the Targaryens, he rebelled to save his betrothed Lyanna, and importantly to help his chosen brother Ned (which might be part of the reason why he wanted to marry Lyanna,) and in a way lost the war because he didn't get her, and instead got stuck with all this unwanted responsibility.

[@CognizantCheddar]

I hope everyone understands that Lyanna would've hopped a ship to Essos to avoid marrying Robert.

[@thatguy913]

I wonder what lyanna looked like. Must have been gorgeous to spark a revolution and also catch the prince's attention in the first place.

[@KingInBlack69]

​@@CognizantCheddarcan't really blame her

[@fredfry5100]

​@@CognizantCheddarI wouldn't go that far. She'd have hated Robert, but "done her duty", despite the cost

[@filipvadas7602]

1. Something I always thought was fitting was that both Robert and Cersei are in love with "ghosts". Robert loved his idealised version of Lyanna, even though he barely knew her, while Cersei never quite got over the fact that she never got to marry Prince Rhaegar, but rather *the man who killed him.* 2. Robert is basically the fantasy hero that killed his dragon (Rhaegar) , but failed to get the girl (Lyanna) and the grief ate him alive, except he wasn't granted the mercy of the credits rolling, instead his descent is slow and painfull. Instead of dealing with it, he just threw himself into hedonism which only temporarily buried the pain. Which made him willfully blind to the accumulating problems his way of ruling was creating. 3. Its actually a fan theory that Robert was HOPING for a war to make himself feel alive again and I can understand why. Him not anihilating the Greyjoys after their rebellion and instead both sparing Balon and letting him continue to rule the Iron Islands as a vassal of the Crown, combined with the fact that he was *always* anticipating an attack from the remaining Targeryans tells me that he was constantly on the lookout for another war to fight. Preferably one he could actually win though.

[@sarcasticsid5589]

Well written

[@PointlessRhetoric]

damn bro thats deep

[@nunyabiznes33]

It's kinda sadder in the book. He hosted an exiled Summer Island prince (Jalabar Xho) for years, who continuously beg him for military support. Cersei thinks he kept the prince around coz he fantasize sailing away to some foreign land to wage war but never pushed through. He just trying to keep fantasy alive, just like how try to hold on to Lyanna. He probably feel so dead inside.

[@CatotheE]

Robert being in love with a ghost has to be one of the biggest memes out there.

[@InaEsin]

Wait a second...Rhaegar married Eliana (or whatever) Martel, he wasn't betrothed to Cersei. I think she might have been promised to Viserys. The entire war started over Rhaegar "choosing" Lyanna, but he had two kids with Elia Martel that the Mountain murdered. So Cersei had to be talking about a different prince. Can you imagine, Cersei and Viserys together?? ha ha ha

[@Healingharp88]

This has always been one of my favourite scenes of the entire series. Cersei, asking Robert about Lyanna in his moment is quite possibly the most honest conversation they've ever had. And she had most likely decided Robert was going to die and soon. And her asking was curiosity plain and simple. She wanted to have an answer to something that has literally haunted their marriage and to leave no unfinished business between them. She had to know, before she could never know.

[@InaEsin]

When I go back and rewatch, I skip over much and land on favorite scenes. This is definitely one of them.

[@nicodemus7784]

Robert hitting her and then finding out he never loved her at all were what sealed his fate.

[@johnaeryns5364]

A warrior does not fear a quick death on the field. But a slow one in the bed. Robert baratheon was depressed and bored. So he engaged in self destruction. It happens to everyone that feels more alive in war than they do in peace.

[@yami122]

Not necessarily it happens to those without the self discipline to self sacrifice for job they may not enjoy There are plenty of great men throughout history who have felt more at home in war than at peace but they were able to understand that there was a job that needed to be done and that they were the man to do it and so they suffered in silence And the opposite is true as well several of history's greatest war leaders have been men who had no taste for war Abraham Lincoln and Frederick the Great were inherently men of peace what ended up leading their nation's greatly during times of war Heck Abraham Lincoln was miserable throughout the Civil War and he despised having to do the job But he refused to put his own happiness and his own preferences before the good of the nation that he was now in charge in

[@Blackdeathgaming-yv1kk]

I once read a fanfic that might have been game of thrones i don't remember but the main character before going of to war looked at his family very intently trieing to memorise all their features. And thats when i realised something i had never really thought about and that is that before cameras or a lack of highy skilled painters lots of people would actually forget the faces of loved ones after not having seen them in a while. And that to me (even though roberts love with lyanna never really was a thing) makes it a very powerful scene.

[@DCharles]

Yeah I think that’s at play a bit here too, but I also think it’s difficult to remember someone you don’t truly know.

[@AndreLuis-gw5ox]

No offense, but this is bs. People can remember faces of old friends or relatives for years without ever seeing pictures of them. Forgeting how a loved looks like before the invention of cameras is not a real thing, and I have never saw any evidence of something so dumb and silly to have ever happened.

[@damonlongstreet8630]

Roberts Reign in a Nutshell: "Im Done now You clean up the fucking mess"

[@woodyhorton8537]

Yup he told ned the truth lol u run it while I eat, drink and fuck myself into an early grave lol

[@cobra8888]

What Jaime told Ned about his “Hand” title. “The King shit, while the Hand wipes”.

[@OreoCookie324]

@@woodyhorton8537horrid king

[@woodyhorton8537]

@@OreoCookie324 For sure he didn't have a clue or care what was going on in the kingdoms or his council. As long as he could drink, eat and fuck everything was great to him

[@woodyhorton8537]

@@cobra8888 A very true statement!

[@jonathonjohnson1227]

To be totally honest. Lyanna and Robert was also an arranged marriage, so either way someone would’ve been unhappy. Robert strikes me as a washed up athlete too, he is constantly dwelling on his best days from the past. Honestly if Lyanna was forced to do her duty like Cersei was we wouldn’t have 5 books.

[@nunyabiznes33]

Worse, I remember he just wanted to marry Lyanna coz he wanted to be Ned's brother so badly. No wonder Stannis is bitter, his older bro don't even want to be with his own family. Makes me wonder tho how depressing the Baratheon household must have been after both parents died.

[@stefankatsarov5806]

You woud be suprised in how many arranged marriages the man and the woman fell in love whit each other.

[@nocturnalrecluse1216]

In other words, he has Al Bundy syndrome.

[@InaEsin]

That's an excellent take,@@nunyabiznes33

[@jonathonthomits1322]

Idk why you're pondering that he "strikes you as a washed-up athlete" when he literally says it multiple different times throughout the show

[@Carmen_Sandiego7]

I personally think that deep down he knew that Lyanna chose Rhaegar. He saw her cry while listening to Rhaegar sing at Harrenhal, he saw the spark between them, he saw her reaction when Rhaegar picked her at the tourney. I think he WANTED to believe that Rhaegar stole her because it was too painful to accept that Lyanna did not want to marry him. I also think that if Robert actually believed that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, then he would have waited to kill him until after he forced Rhaegar to divulge where he was keeping her. But he didn’t…he killed Rhaegar swiftly in a rage of jealousy…not in a “seeking justice” sort of way like you’d expect from a man who’s beloved had been taken from him.

[@jessjess23brooks89]

Shit, you're right. He didn't even mention questioning Rhaegar. As far as they knew, he was the only one who knew where she was. Also, Rhaegar's last word was Lyanna. Robert must have known for sure then. Which begs the question: how the hell did Edward know where Lyanna was? And why didn't Robert go with him? Man, I've been studying this series for sixteen years and I haven't had anything new to ponder since after Dance was published. Thank you for this.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

@@jessjess23brooks89 It was the worst kept secret in Westeros. The Tower of Joy is not exactly secluded. It's right in view of a busy road. Suddenly it was guarded by three white cloaks and manned by all the servants that they, a Targaryen prince and a noble host needed, and anyone passing by knew about the abduction.

[@jessjess23brooks89]

@@neutronalchemist3241 Yeah, you're probably right about that. Arthur Dayne randomly guarding a tower would probably generate buzz lol. I'm looking more at this situation and just looking at it more sideways. Why just send a few men against the Sword of the Morning? You'd think Robert would send a bigger group. Or at least some renowned fighters. It feels like Ned gathered the only men who dared go with him. I don't know if I'm being paranoid and reading too much into things or if there are really more layers to this.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

@@jessjess23brooks89 I always considered that a huge plot hole. Already like that, 7 vs. 3, they barely made it. What if, other than the three white cloaks, there was even only a pair of regular guards? With crossbows maybe? The odds would have shifted. it was excessively risky even if Ned had perfectly known there were only the three Kingsguards (and Ned is not the reckless kind), and Ned should have had no way to know there were only them. So it was arranged in some manner? But 5 of Ned's closest friends died for real.

[@SaintP-ed8ut]

Robert was too wounded from the fight, he sent Ned to get him.​@@jessjess23brooks89

[@brittanyrae5771]

I think for Cersei, this is less about Robert and more about Rhaegar. She still thinks about Rhaegar decades later, and she was denied as a marriage prospect for Rhaegar while he ran off with Lyanna.

[@DCharles]

Well she was denied Rhaegar for Elia, which was fitting since The Lannisters denied Jaime to Elia and offered Tyrion instead as an insult. If I’m recalling it all correctly

[@brittanyrae5771]

@@DCharles yes, that is correct. But ultimately he ran off with Lyanna while Elia was pregnant. Cersei is so full of herself, I could imagine she would wonder why Rhaegar wouldn’t do the same for her. Then Robert kills Rhaegar and marries Cersei, but never has any feelings of fondness for her, over the same woman that Rhaegar ran off with. That’s gotta be a kick in the balls Cersei thinks she should have had.

[@anaemiliaalmeida7238]

Oh definitely... In fact, there's a bit of foreshadowing at Sansa's first chapter after Robert's death, where she notices Cersei's mourning clothes: "a high-collared black silk gown, with a hundred dark red rubies sewn into her bodice, covering her from neck to bosom. They were cut in the shape of teardrops, as if the queen were weeping blood." Black and Red are colours of House Targaryen and the rubies are a reference to Rhaegar's armour Robert smashed out when he killed him with his hammer. So, not only was Cersei mourning after Rhaegar, she was also revelling on Robert's death by wearing the same colours of the man that the latter hated the most as a way to rub in his death and non-verbally flaunt her own victory over Robert!!!!!

[@InaEsin]

Okay, thank you. I was seriously confused, because the whole bloody war was because Rhaegar passed by Elia--his WIFE with TWO KIDS--and gave the wreath or favor (whatever) to Lyanna. I thought this whole time that the prince that Cersei was to have was Viserys. @@DCharles

[@s66s46]

Rhaegar + lyanna being in love isnt cannon

[@DaemonJulian]

Cersei was right. Their marriage did hold the realm together, along with Robert’s lack of knowledge of the incest. He died, ending their marriage, and all hell broke loose.

[@az21bob666]

No Robert held the king Dom together. If he found out about the incest he go to war and still win.

[@ColeBresnehen]

@@az21bob666dis is da most smart est comet

[@wd3987]

​@@az21bob666the pig caused the game of thrones by taking him out.

[@nicodemus7784]

the marriage was the fulcrum holding the realm in a teetering balance. half the realm was loyal to Robert, and the Lannisters were powerful on their own due to wealth. Marriages we pacts of loyalty interwoven between the houses of westeros, and continuing it helped keep old alliances together. no one could challenge the lannisters individually, let alone while joined to the baratheons while they were joined by the crown and marriage. the Vale was tied to Robert by Jon Ayron as hand. the Vale, river lands, and the north were tied by marriages. Ned and Robert were old friends united by the war. the only wild cards were the southern kingdoms, one who wanted to be left alone, and one who was aspiring to "grow strong".

[@az21bob666]

no one was loyal to the lannister everone hated them if robert call war every house woudl have join and and crush the lannisters, the north would have join and follow ned the vale as well, the river lands, the tyell would happy join and dorn would do jump jacks to kill tywin, think about it when the kind doom felll apart not one house join lannister

[@AbhishekKr.Singh1609]

You want to know know the horrible. I can't remember what she looked like. I only remember she was the one thing i ever wanted. Someone took her away from me and seven kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind Robert Baratheon

[@PointlessRhetoric]

this is poetic and sappy but, it rings very true. Young heart are shockingly vulnerable.

[@lesliemcmillan2971]

​@@PointlessRhetoric he called her a thing. Not a person.

[@PointlessRhetoric]

@@lesliemcmillan2971 that's how he viewed her

[@TemariNaraannaschatz]

It also paralells so well with Maser Aemon saying he can still see "her" face when talking about a girl he loved once. A blind man over a hundret years old still remembers what the woman he loved looked like, Robert does not. And Robert is still hung up about Lyanna but Aemon has his peace.

[@choronos]

Reading the books, I just wanted to slap Robert and tell him to STFU every time he pined for Lyanna. He didn't even know her. He saw her a few times and thought she was hot. He certainly didn't love her, he just wanted to make babies with someone hot.

[@benboches6850]

It's wrong to assume that every scene not in the books was written by David and Dan, at least for the first 4 seasons. George was literally a writer on the show, and coincidentally ever since he stopped being a writer the show stopped having scenes like this. My theory is that George wrote these scenes for the show, or at least played a large role in producing them.

[@SuperKratosgamer]

Exactly!

[@Lampoluke]

A lot of scenes are just using the books as a script.

[@mr.noneyabusinesstm8845]

I think Robert and Cersei’s marriage is absolutely all that’s holding the seven kingdoms together during his reign. Tywin would never be content to leave the country at peace if he didn’t have a direct line, even a potentially far away one, to control the kingdoms

[@che3se1495]

Yeah. No way Robert would have been able to get on the throne without Tywin, but Tywin couldn't put himself at the top, he just didn't have the political backing that Robert had. Their marriage was a compromise between two types of power.

[@michaelahurt]

100%. Robert on the throne means the Stormlands, North, Eyrie and Riverrun (by marriage) are all loyal. The Lannisters having heirs to the throne keeps them loyal (and by proxy The Reach and Oldtown) That's kind of the point of the War of the Five Kings: if Joffrey isn't Robert's son then why should those four kingdoms remain loyal? Obviously there was more to it but even just that alone probably would have been enough to tip the kingdoms into war, which is why Jon Arryn had to die.

[@nicodemus7784]

@@michaelahurt without Jon Arryn, there was nothing to keep Robert in check, which created the instability that little finger wanted. Jon revealing the secret of Cersei would have sent Robert off the deep end and meant war with the lannisters. but that isnt enough chaos to make the ladder that little finger wanted to climb by itself. he needed the Eryie to stay out of it, he needed Ned to be predictably stupid. and Cersei eliminating Robert first just blasted everything into orbit with the stage set for conflict.

[@willrobinson3114]

I think Robert secretly wanted a war, which is why he fixated on the idea of one. It's his bread and butter, he knows it and loves doing it, much more than being King. It's an excellent escape for him

[@DCharles]

Westeros’ Edward IV

[@13EqualsB]

Why would robert want to assassinate Dany then?

[@willrobinson3114]

@@13EqualsB if the attempt fails then it stokes the temper of herself, her family and the Dothraki and increases the likelihood of war and it it succeeds it does the same thing x100

[@nicodemus7784]

Robert knew how to fight, drink and screw. being a king and ruling was too tedious and as king, no one could really tell him no. and no one could or would help him to get over his "loss" of Lyanna. i think the death of his first child with Cersei broke whatever was left of his soul.

[@rodrikofharlaw6848]

I've always been puzzled by the fact Cersei would have certainly cheated on robert anyways but was so bent out of shape over that fact he didnt love her. It's such an odd egotistical spite. I mean its in character for her to be a dumbass with no self reflection.

[@DK-Coffee]

She was required to be beautiful and graceful. Other men wanted her but the one she was required to have sex with doesn't love her. It had to annoy her character to see her husband to pursue other women.

[@09hicktown]

Cersei was raised to and believe she was the most beautiful maiden in the realm. That men didnt bothered her

[@katies3338]

Yes to the beautiful comments, but also when she is told that her worth/power lies in her beauty and someone rejects that, Cersei likely felt powerless. She had to figure out how to get some control over the span of her marriage (this point in the series). She went from her controlling father to a disinterested Robert. This exchange shows us a lot about Robert, indeed, but it lays the groundwork for who Cersei becomes because of it.

[@benjamindunne8132]

Well Cersei does say at one point that she was willing to try to genuinely make the marriage work, but she became spiteful when Robert whispered Lyanna's name during sex. The dude basically spat in her face and she became spiteful and eventually hateful of both Robert and Lyanna

[@morrigansraven]

Robert was a womaniser and Lyanna knew this. He wanted Lyanna, initally, because he found her attractive. He didn't know her as an individual. In my headcanon, I believe that friends likely hinted to Robert that Lyanna didn't really desire or want him and was less than happy with their match, but he had an over inflated ego, owing to the fact that most women did find him desirable; he was in complete denial and refused to entertain the possibility that the one he coveted didn't want him. If she hadn't eloped with Rhaegar (per show canon) and had, instead, married him as intended, he would eventually have grown tired of her and been as unfaithful to her as he was to Cersei, because he wasn't in love with Lyanna for herself; he was in love with the notion of her, of wooing her and winning her, and, when she died, he could only ever envision his idealised version of her.

[@sydnitheromantictaylor112]

So true

[@georgeprchal3924]

He also already had one known bastard at the time of their betrothal, and two other likely ones.

[@09hicktown]

In the first book Robert said that Lyanna would have never challenged or shamed him like Cersei does, I cant remeber the exact terms Robert uses but Ned in his own head directly after that contradicts that. Robert would have treated Lyanna exactly how he treated Cersei because neither one would have let Robert do what he wanted.

[@AnthonySforza]

Kind of gave me Illiad vibes

[@georgeprchal3924]

@@AnthonySforza so Robert is Menelaus?

[@michaelmccray8610]

I look for mirrored similarities in GOT in the books. I always thought King Robert had feelings for Lyanna like LittleFinger felt towards Kat/Sansa. Everyone is in love with the idea of everyone else

[@DCharles]

Exactly

[@fatalshore5068]

Gods the writing was strong back then

[@connorandrews8517]

I don't think anyone would deny that D&D wrote 3-4 of the best seasons of television ever put to screen. When season 1 of GOT wrapped there was 40-50 minutes of run time left to pad out which the writers had to come up with themselves. The fact that these "filler" scenes stand out as some of the best in the first season shows how good an understanding D&D had of these characters at one point, and makes their creative choices in later seasons all the more frustrating.

[@Ashbrash1998]

I think there best part was having a good foundation and working with it, but when they starting going without the foundation by skipping huge chunks of the books, putting a lot of filler and stuff that didn't work with the foundation is when it all fell. And the cracks were to hard to ignore when they had no foundation at all

[@Emma-se5wm]

@@Ashbrash1998 Agree. They could manage great creative character writing when the plot + action elements were already well and consistently established, but when they had to choreograph most of the storyline, the character writing consequently suffered. Even still, there were still some well done interpersonal moments between characters after season 4 that weren't all just from the books. I love the scene where Jaime and Olenna talk and Olenna says, "Tell Cersei...I want her to know it was me," even if the plot elements and fast travel happening in that season were nonsensical.

[@peger]

the funny thing is if i remember hbo wanted to give them few more seasons. But they decided to wrap and rush everything up . They wanna jump to disney or something

[@Luminousreign]

Running out of book material was the problem. They have no idea who the characters are or what they are supposed to be doing once they are in new places and expected to have changed slightly as characters.They started having to make secondary character developing scenes the driving force behind the main plot.

[@BruceWaynge]

The thing that would've pissed Robert off the most would be him finding out that Cersei really was his soulmate 😂

[@KingInBlack69]

Yeah, they’re both terrible persons.

[@LisaG442]

He wasn’t delusional, he was disillusioned. “Winning a throne is easier than sitting on one”. He was a soldier, not a statesman or politician. Not loving his wife and hating his job he took to drink and whoring.

[@JC-gn7lq]

He firmly believed he knew Lyanna well enough to be in love with her. That's a delusion.

[@LisaG442]

@@JC-gn7lq Who’s to say he didn’t know her well? Robert and Nedard were like brothers. But I think you’re right since she fell for a Targaryen. I meant more along the lines of why he changed so much Ned barely recognized him in body and spirit since taking a wife and throne.

[@LalaLa-ze7kv]

​@@LisaG442 "Nedard" indeed was his one true love ❤

[@ok.4720]

​@@LisaG442Ned himself even remarks at Robert that he didn't even know her

[@LisaG442]

@@ok.4720 you’re right, I forgot they were both fostered at the Eyrie and Lyanna would barely know her own brother let alone Robert

[@CrunchyNorbert]

imagine trying to tell a 6"5 lump of pure muscle who can have your head on a spike quicker than he can put his boots on that he may have a bad case of the Feelings

[@Goldfishliberationarmy]

“Conspiracy theorist who is oblivious to many real threats as well as his children not being his” holy shit Robert is Dale Gribble

[@emmylee5093]

AHHHH the thought that Robert might have said "I can't even remember what she looked like" not out of grief but out of "she was an obsession that burned hot but not a lasting love to remember" is SOOO interesting, I had not considered it that way until this video. Of course I had considered (and headcanon) that the robert/lyanna relationship WAS one-sided. AND the parallel between Robert being a good conqueror but a poor leader with Robert "demanding" that everyone "gets along." At least Show Daenerys (I refuse to believe this is how True Daenerys would act) *ALWAYS* just spoke at people until they gave in, perhaps with one showy display of either her dragons or her loyal men. (I think that's where D&D failed her character, she didn't JUST make speeches she actually considered her role in EVERYTHING the dragons did "if they are monsters, then so am I") BUT I think it's a really interesting parallel, again one I had not considered! My thoughts on Robert are that he truly did believe his strength and sturdiness was what the realm needed to be "stable." He thought if he continued as a war-time military leader everything would be fine. His strength would command all. Oooh but that's another consideration, isn't it? That blood ties and family words are not just marks of a family but also portents that you speak upon yourself. "Ours is the fury" Well there are a few ways we could read that. "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" is an easy interpretation with Cersei representing the boar that literally gored Robert. And then there's the "fury" of the wild. Boars are some of the most vicious, non-mythical, creatures in the wild. And Robert thought himself above a simple pig. But his mistake was that it was not a pig...but a boar.... ahh im thinking too much about it lol but this video had me pondering about an episode that aired when i was in middle school 😅 Well done!

[@landofthehazymist]

Even domesticated pigs are strong, fast, can be big n incredibly aggressive esp when provoked, and do a lot of damage

[@CatotheE]

I don’t see how that makes him delusional when he was never told. Ned uses his love for Lyanna to convince him to do things. The implication being that it was mutual and he didn’t know. In the books, Cersei mentioned that Robert was always trying to get her to hunt with him and how much he loved riding horses (like Lyanna). He probably just wanted a tomboyish wife.

[@DCharles]

I’m not clear on what you’re saying here. What are you referencing that he wasn’t told?

[@CatotheE]

@@DCharles That she didn’t return his feelings.

[@carlycrays2831]

I think his whole obsession with Lyanna was rather delusional. Yes, maybe Robert and Lyanna would have had some of the same hobbies, but relationships need to be about more than that. Robert would have cheated on her again and again.

[@SamBrickell]

Robert should have been Minister of War or some such.

[@akechijubeimitsuhide]

Back when the writing was still good, it WAS really good.

[@KonguZya]

These scenes in season 1 that they added to pad out runtime are absolutely phenomenal. I love the "war stories" one between Robert, Jaime, and Barristan. They really show more depth to the characters that we don't have POVs for that early in the books. Pure show material that shined like gold, now compare that to the filler scenes in the latter seasons.

[@Yvanehtnioj2000]

I think Robert’s true love was Ned and Lyanna dying meant he’d never be family to Ned and that’s why he’s really mad. I doubt he really cared for Lyanna as a person, he seems to view her as a means to an end, an object to win. Which is why he was so quick to betroth Joffrey to Sansa.

[@krislynn5965]

I think the books played more of a role to the scene than the D&D's writing did. It's not a bad scene, it's basically just other characters opinions and musings about their relationship and motivations given new life in a scene in the show. It's hard to give them a whole lot of credit here since the heavy lifting was already done for them in the source material.

[@DCharles]

That’s loosely my point. Expanding on the source material, maintaining book canon themes and messaging, while including original content based on asoiaf is what they did perfectly… until they didn’t.

[@damonlongstreet8630]

George was also there to help, until they kicked him out cause they believed they knew better.

[@LionMerteuil]

D&D didn't run out of material or anything, they ran out of drive for the genre. They'd poured allot of creative energy into the world to this point and were years deep and other more interesting projects/IPs were on the horizon. They were like a game master who'd run a really great Dungeons and Dragons game for years but were to the point it wasn't firing the creative juices and was more obligation than anything. They were getting paid great and enjoying success but like, creative energy is creative energy and at a certain point you get burned out on fantasy and like to stretch out into other genres like science fiction. I think as soon as they landed their Star Wars projects it was like "okay, let's get this out of the way to get on to the new and exciting for us stuff!" Literally HBO was thrilled with the success and I think offered them more money and indeed more seasons but they at this point just wanted it done. When people lose a creative spark for something the material suffers but it wasn't like they could put it on hiatus and go back to it. Which may have been the only way to save it.

[@damonlongstreet8630]

Remember, they REFUSED to step down and let another take over.

[@fatalshore5068]

​@@damonlongstreet8630this right here is why they are hated

[@carlycrays2831]

I blame the Red Wedding. The Red Wedding is a thing of beauty, one of the greatest plot twists ever. You can see GRRM get obsessed with it in the books and after it's done, he doesn't know what to do with himself. Same thing with the show

[@TheAlex90100]

I think when Cersei mentioned that the entire realm was held together by their marriage is that Robert owed so much to the lannisters and the iron bank that if they were to separate it would lead to a conflict between who rules Westeros and how the king will ever repay the debts without conquering or going into a war with the lannisters for their gold.

[@lovelyhatter]

The additions D&D made to the show from seasons 1-3 are phenomenal. It's too bad they only did the show to get to the Red Wedding and didn't care about what came next. It really could have been great if they cared and I think that's really why fans hate them.

[@bgcvetan]

Robert: You're grown fat. Eddard: You have shrinked.

[@jackleith3502]

Great video and a great insight into Bobby B and how he was both the most clued up and clueless character of the first season. Just a quick note (and please do take this with a grain of sand as I’m not a KZbinr), but the background music was a little too dissonant for me with the video’s topic/content. Otherwise, great analysis and very much enjoyed!

[@DCharles]

The decision to go with that music will haunt me for the duration of this video. It was intended for the introduction only. You’re not alone with that critique though

[@jackleith3502]

I gotta say I felt a bit mean giving that criticism! Also now for not reading enough comments to see I wasn’t the only one 😬 great vid though content-wise, you’ve got a cool channel here dude 😎

[@DCharles]

@@jackleith3502 it’s not mean. You weren’t alone at all with that criticism. Glad to have you watch.

[@jackleith3502]

Thanks man! Glad to be here on the channel and always cool to interact with the KZbinr 😎

[@eviljoshy3402]

The one line I remember from Robert "What's the bigger number 5 or 1?" /holds up his hand "5" /holds up his fist "1"

[@Kalenz1234]

It's almost like Martin was still helping with dialogue and script in season 1.

[@youngoutlaw5150]

Also, his wife also said she was in love with the prince and she was still sleeping with her brother so her loving somebody means nothing because she loves herself more so she sleeps with her relatives because they look like her or they remind her of her

[@rylilund4636]

I think I had heard that a lot of these types of scenes came about because they didn't know how to manage their budget yet. They found themselves 5 minutes short, so they would grab 2 actors, put them on a simple set and have them talk in character. Got some good scenes out of it.

[@taureansynner6993]

King Robert's thoughts were echoed by Joffrey later on. He said to Cersei about a single Army for the Seven Kingdoms, and said to Tywin that something should be done about the potential threat of the Dragons to Westeros. Both Robert and Joffrey were right. It's a shame no one took their worries seriously...

[@warallied]

i generally agree with the analysis with some little nitpicking: He wasnt talking about unifying the kingdom - he was just counter point Cersei's decent review that the Dorthraki dont have siege engines and other challenges (like all the kingdom having bigger armies than them. He says that regardless, they're stronger for being a unified one unit (like the mongols) He has like a nostalgia PTSD and some of the comments were right: he was in love with the idea itself. the mad king burning Ned's family was a thing - but kidnapping the sister he was bethrothed to - being a man who lives for battle -the chance to be everything he wanted - was truly his true goal.

[@johnbishop9621]

Charles: "Robort was a deluded, warhawking egomaniac" The Music: 😊🌈🙂‍↔️🎶🕊️🐣🥰

[@colossusslayer1234]

Scenes like this are part of why I hate D and D so much. They didn't screw up seasons 6-8 because of pure incompetence, scenes like this PROVE they had creative talent. They just didn't give any effort.

[@robertsmiley2207]

This was a very good scene 😀 and it was foreshadowing this and the one with tywin talking to Jaime after he attacked Ned Stark both written ✍️ by Dan and Dave

[@youngoutlaw5150]

House Baratheon has never been known for ruling their lands, but for wars many of them didn’t even know how to read they allow other people to handle those matters

[@themisheika]

That was actually the culture back then IRL. In fact, Henry I of England was called Henry Beauclerc or Henry the scholar as a slur, not a compliment. The idea is reading is relegated to the lower order scribes to do, not kings whose martial power and ability to lead armies are vastly more important than their literacy.

[@chair2945]

Haha, I love the happy lil' background music.

[@annstillwell730]

Robert loved Lyanna simply because he couldn't have her. He held up an idolized version of her. He would have ended up bored with her and cheating on her the same as with Cersei. He would have moved on to other women. But because he couldn't have her and she died she remained forever yound and perfect in his eyes. She saw this so ran off with Rheagar. Robert only wanted to party. He was smart just lazy and only cared about his own pleasures. He dragged Ned from his peaceful quiet life up north not caring weather he wanted to do the job or could do the job just wanted his friend to party with him.

[@Pwntistic]

Robert Baratheon is a Warlord. He is wasted in peace but War - that's where he flourished. If he were alive when Danaerys arrived, when the Others were marching, that would have been something.

[@kellygarboden442]

D& D stopped caring.

[@davidmcghee6104]

This portion of the show was so significant I would always reference the events in these earlier episodes to any further episodes and see what the ripple effect was

[@DCharles]

Feel free to leave questions for a Q&A replying with your questions here. Ask about anything of any ASOIAF/GOT/HOTD topic. You can support the channel by donating with a Super Thanks or consider becoming a member. Members will be credited in future videos. Thank you! Follow us on X(Twitter) @twitter.com/c_tuthill

[@Darkness-ie2yl]

Dan and Dave are deserving of incredible praise for what they achieved. The disrespect from most fans is unwarranted and wildly inappropriate.

[@AzarathMetreon]

Bruh, actually imagine what this man would’ve done if he heard about the dragons 😂

[@Dasycottus]

Dan and Dave did an extremely good job at ~adapting~ the major points of GRRM's writings. Where things went wrong was when they started writing the plot themselves

[@DCharles]

I don’t know about plot as an issue so much, but theme and characterization just seemed too inconsistent.

[@masongrae5010]

I think that one scene in the crypt redefines him entirely. He just doesn’t care as much without his lady stark love anymore kinda just doing what he has to do as long in a way he wants to without much thought to consequences because there’s no point and worse case it’s not his problem anymore

[@youngoutlaw5150]

Also, the most important thing is that he never wanted to be king so he was never gonna take the consult meeting serious unlike Ned and John

[@Gunleaver]

The issue of Westero' lack of unity in the face of a Dothraki invasion is purely a show invention, intended to undermine Ned's claims that the invasion is not much of a concern, and does not justify murdering women and unborn children. It does not really speak to Robert's disengagement, since that is one of the few instances of him acting according to what he perceives as the good of the realm, instead of his wounded pride and displaced hatred toward the Targaryens. Jorah, who is an experienced lord & knight of Westeros, who fought in Robert's Rebellion and the Greyjoy Rebellion, and has lived with the Dothraki long enough to speak their tongue and explain their customs in terms a Westeros woman like Dany can understand, believes that the Dothraki would have no choice against the fortifications of Westeros, and furthermore, he believes that Robert's closest lords, like Ned, Stannis & Tywin, are smart enough to exploit their advantages. Regarding Robert's counter-arguments, invented by a writing staff that proves abundantly in later seasons that they have zero comprehension of feudal politics or warfare, the commoners might get pissed that their lords are hiding in castles, while the Dothraki ravage the countryside, but so what? They are still outside the castles, lords don't have to stand for reelection and the Dothraki are racists who view every other ethnicity as inferior, and would not have the means or motive to appeal to the people and get them on their side, to make them loyal subjects of King and khalakka Rhaego son of Drogo, rightful heir to House Targaryen. Secondly, a foreign invasion is generally a perfect cure for internal dissension. The lords of Westeros fight over land, wealth, power and reputation, and the Dothraki threaten all of those things and don't offer any opportunities for the lords to get them by turning coat to Team Drogo. Basically, this scene is Robert talking out of his ass because the writers want to make everyone think that Ned is bad at politics, and that their faves, the Lannisters, are smarter and more sympathetic than they really are.

[@raylast3873]

The thing about Robert is that he can be a pretty decent or a pretty terrible king, depending on how you look at it. He‘s clearly not an administrator, but when he had reliable people to govern for him, he did pretty well. And he was extremely good at diffusing military crises, both because he was a competent and charismatic military leader, and because he was diplomatically flexible; Robert doesn‘t take things personally (except Lyanna) and so avoids making permanent enemies of people who opposed him before, but neither does he back down from a fight. And he does usually trust the right people: By all accounts Jon Arryn is very good at his job and both Ned and Stannis more than pull their weight during military conflicts; more effective than Mace Tyrell or Paxter Redwyne, as we see both during Robert’s Rebellion (when they are enemies) but also during the Greyjoy Uprising (when they are on the same side). It‘s only when Robert doesn‘t have trustworthy people that he gets into trouble. He knows people like Tywin are snakes, but for that reason he hates working with them and so doesn‘t, and instead basically leaves the field to them. I think Robert would have been a fantastic King during the early-to-mid feudal era where there was basically no state apparatus to contend with, and all the Kings were basically just big warlords among other warlords who spent all their time either at war or chilling in their castle and impregnating local peasantry. Later, of course, there would be a style of royalty that‘s completely representative and who‘s job was basically to drink and screw around while the job of governing was left to paid lackeys (not other noblemen who could potentially threaten you); he would clearly have done fine at that, as well. It‘s this in-between situation that‘s awkward for Robert, where there‘s kind of a government but no professional bureaucrats to govern for you. Actually, now that I think about it, I have no idea what the State is even spending money on when there‘s no state apparatus or standing army. At most it‘d be the Goldcloaks (which you can probably finance with taxes and tariffs on the local merchants) and upkeep of the Red Keep. Maybe there is something to the theory that Baelish is just embezzling everything.

[@Undone545]

The thing with Robert is that we are witnessing the aftermath of what sbould be his "..hapily ever after" and nothing is going that way and he doesn't know why himself A prince kidnaps his betrothed. The mad king unjustly killed his best friends dad and demanded his own head. His best friend and surrogate father stand by him against the king. He has a climactic battle against said prince, gets the throne though losing his betrothed marries the richest and one of the most beautiful women inthe country. That should be the end. There should be satisfaction but theres not. It should be noted Robert really was the guy when he was young. Ripped like maidens fantasy. Brave. Strong. Handsome. Wealthy. Competent. During the rebellion not all his lords were loyal he fought three consecutive battles with each of those factions and won back them to his side with charisma alone but he fell off

[@carlycrays2831]

And like he said, Rhaegar still won, in a fashion

[@thebrospaul2312]

They did good with George watching

[@rac1061]

I don’t think Weiss and Benioff were untalented. They just wanted to be free of GOT as quickly as possible so they could sign some very lucrative deals. Problem is they fucked up their own reputations on the way out the door

[@Oj_Pimpson]

Great video. I want to touch on something you mentioned in your opening. D&D are incredibly talented filmmakers/showrunners, the show went off a cliff because they lost their passion/interest in the show after season 6 and rushed what should have been a 40 episode story into 14 episodes. And yes seasons 5 and 6 are brilliant. What it lacks in writing it more than makes up for with an absolute masterclass in visual filmmaking. And with regards to the writing in seasons 5/6 I’m 100% sure they were told WOW would be long done by the time they reached that part of the story. Seasons 7 and 8 are a disgrace

[@TemariNaraannaschatz]

The show had issues before this. Robb marrying Talisa Maegar, Theon saying Ned was like a father to him, cutting out Lady Stoneheart, Arya and Tywin, Littlefinger being openly acknowledged to be a schemer, when almost everyone trusts him in the books, which is how he got his power, cutting out two Tyrell and two Greyjoy brothers (the last two being pov characters), saying season 5+6 are brilliant when Littlefinger marrys Sansa to the Boltons making every one of those characters into idiots, Dorne being just terrible, Euron being basically a joke and Brienne and Stannis becoming incompetent. Sure the show wasn't as bad as the later seasons, but the writing already was terribly lacking. And they had plenty of plot from the books to do, the Ironborn, Sansa in the Vale, the actual Dorne plot -Eliara Sand has the exact opposite standpoint from her bookcounterpart, Davos on Skagos, Lady Stoneheart if they bothered with her and therefore Brienne and Jamies storyline. Season 1 was brilliant, they did very well with the screentime they had to adapt, season 1-4 are amazing to watch but the lack of characater understanding started here in smaller instances. Season 5+6 they went off the books, despite having plenty material and in season 7+8 people noticed how badly it had become. But the issues were there before, just not as noticable for those who only watched the show.

[@lynxyu11]

But doesnt excuse just not adapting book 4 and book 5 closely, they had alot of stuff there. But they decided to simplify and rush it. If they lost passion let others do it then

[@Gunleaver]

Benioff and Wess NEVER knew what they were doing. The mistake and mischaracterizations in this, and other invented scenes, prove that even in the "good seasons", they were still incompetent and drafting off Martin's material and were fairly hopeless without it. The books state that the Dothraki quest to claim Westeros for the Targaryens is futile, and they show Ned as basically competent at politics, whose downfall is that that he did not anticipate a court stuffed with enemies of the crown and that Robert was so checked out and unwilling to engage with responsible administration. Benioff and Weiss clearly thought that since Ned ended up getting killed, he failed and thus he sucks, so Ned must be wrong and they wrote the show that way. They decided to give Cersei more "nuance" completely missing the point that the emotionally abusive upbringing Tywin imposed on all his children, and his failure to engage with them or to treat them as more than tools, has made her into an incompetent politician. The point is that the Lannister superiority complex has rendered Cersei paranoid and incapable of loving anyone but herself, while Ned's form of parenting and leadership has his children well-prepared to cope with all sorts of challenges and rise to be good men and women, and has the North fighting to bring back his children to rule them, because they want more of that Stark leadership.

[@strgrlszn]

love the jolly happy music in the bg while we talk about CERSEI and ROBERT 😭😭😭

[@DCharles]

It’s the most common complaint about this video. I’m not certain what I was thinking anymore

[@hazb8026]

I was about to comment this. The music is so distracting and also kind of the best bit😅

[@SuperRichyrich11]

Correction: Dumb and Dumber may have “written” that scene, but we now know the dialogue was essentially improv. Lena Headey and Robert’s actor wrote almost all of their own lines… and some of it was in fact actual improv.

[@josephherrera6656]

Robert wasn't dellusional, he simply didn't care. He didn't want to become king and said it should have been Nedd, who actually would have been a good king. Robert also told Nedd in the books he knew Jeffory was lying about what happened with Arya and didn't want to kill Sansa's wolf but had no choice when Cersi forced his hand. He also told Nedd that he would leave Westeros now and join the Golden Company but can't because then Joffery would be King and knewn he be a horrible King. Also you have to remember that Robert could always rely on the North, the Valve, Storm's End, and the Riverlands for help with any war he needed to fight. The Western lands would either fight or stay neutral so long as he had Cersi and Jamie close to him. Which left the Iron Islands, Dorne and the Reach to rebel against him if a Targaryen invasion happened. The Dothraki invasion would never have been successful on account Westeros was too big, they had no fixed friendly landing spot. Stannis probably could have destroyed their navy fleet out at sea. Or even by some miracle had they landed and Dorne and the Reach had delcare for them winter was just around the corner which would have sealed their faith.

[@newdawngamingchannel]

I loved everything up to the last few seasons

[@Ash.Crow.Goddess]

Don't forget that GRRM was working with them on the writing, at this point.

[@basiosrasian225]

9:06 they just stopped caring

[@CHamlin86]

When Cersei says the realm is held together by their marriage, I think it's just an observation that wars are often started over succession to the throne. Robert took the throne by conquest, no one really disputes his rule for that reason, and Cersei has provided him with three heirs (at least people think that). Their family represents "normal": a king married to his queen, and they have legitimate heirs, the oldest of which will take the throne when it's time. No one is opposing them, no one is going to start a war over it.

[@deityjc]

I think Cersei was probably right about their marriage holding the realm together, at least in the aspect of the Baratheon/Lannister alliance. The Lannisters after all had the second largest army, second only to the Tyrells who supported the Targaryens in the Civil War. Without the alliance, should anyone question Robert (or his children's) claim, he would really only have the North, Riverlands, and maybe the Vale to back him up. Also worth mentioning that Jon Arryn was dead so they'd probably be neutral. However, Robert's claim is much safer with Tywin backing him.

[@guichogf5636]

Robert didn't know her, he didn't love her. His pride was injured when Lyanna was supposedly kidnapped by Rhaegar and he reacted to defend what he believed was rightfully his. During her supposed captivity and after her death, he idealized and idolized her to justify himself. Had she married him, he would have cheated on her too.

[@SunnyCida]

1:22 Cersei is actually a little bit right about their marriage, it's Tywin's influence that keeps the realm running peacefully and Robert only has Tywin while he is married to Cersei

[@thehandoftheking3314]

Cersei's self indulgent delusion causes her to believe that it's her, and her relationships, that are holding the kingdom together.

[@TeezyRider]

that is a really good point D! you can fall in love with someone that you don't know but I don't recommend it. I imagine that if Robert married Lyanna that he wouldn't have treat her much different than he does to Cersei. Hopefully Ned and the other Starks would have slapped some sense into him if he did marry into the Stark family. great video.

[@sydnitheromantictaylor112]

Robert I believe deep down knew Lyanna didn't love him but didn't want to accept that fact. I doubt she ever showed interest in Robert. If he had gotten to marry Lyanna he would've eventually gotten angry once he would've seen that she was only human and not the girl he assumed her to be and then had done her as shitty as he did Cersei.

[@eodiete]

With the delay in winds of winter and the stories of D &D sitting with GRRM where he told them the story points of the unwritten books I am convinced that Season 7 & 8 of GOT are going to be book accurate . Blaming D & D is just a convenient way to attack someone because we hate the ending

[@izuela7677]

Robert seems to have been in love with the whole Stark family. Very much idealized them and their tight family bond. Too bad that he was never able to form such bonds with his own brothers. Not sure if that was an innate character flaw or a part of the depression that he never got over. In hs idealized world, he would not be king. And his best friend Ned would be more of a side character, with fewer responsibilities who could possibly even come live with him (and Lyanna) at Storms End if he wasn't needed somewhere else.

[@carlycrays2831]

I think it was quite delusional. In this fantasy he would still end up cheating on Lyanna and I'm not sure Ned really would have taken that well for too long. Lyanna would likely give him a child or two and then go off to live elsewhere. Plus, his own anger and wrath is why Ned doesn't want anything to do with him. Robert would have murdered Lyanna's son

[@MagiofAsura]

Robert would have came into his own once again once the the Clash of Kings started. War is his one thing.

[@csguy3223]

Robert accurately assessed most threats to the throne. I don’t think he was that clueless. I think Cersei was a manipulative gaslighter and so it’s hard to know what reality is through the lens of a conversation with her.

[@nathanherren6708]

This really stuck out to me as one of the best written and performed scenes in the show. I’m actually appalled that the same writers were responsible for the last two seasons

[@landofthehazymist]

And the whole reason rhaegar publicly chose lyanna over his wife elia, then later fucked off with lyanna was bc he wanted his third prophecy child that badly, he chose that over the realm's stability, and having more than 2 kids would kill the sickly elia

[@TDdelta777]

Given that daddy Lannister pays his debts (real or created by LT) the realm indeed is held by their union, one won the war, his son secured him not only the seat but the entire KL and it’s people (I doubt that the end of the war ending in a big boom would have made him look good and more when common people had a positive view of Rhaegar, Starla may have been offended but the KL population could care less about that) and Cersei I guess basically tells him I gave you succession (gladly for her he didn’t look twice at his kids and can’t see they don’t look like him at all) which again leads to Tywin having interest in him keeping the throne so it can pass to his grandchildren and him regaining his position as hand.” Aerys declined Cersei as a bride for his heir which resulted in the Lannister army turning their back on him and his son even if he would have been a better king . So Cersei is right the fact the Robert can’t stand her and won’t just set her aside to get himself a new queen in full Henry the VIII fashion proves it.

[@qsoraww5229]

Subscribed

[@DCharles]

Awesome. Thanks checking out the channel

[@kristianstrauss7661]

The only reason robert wasn't worse off what because of the lannister money which he got by marrying cersi

[@nanky432]

The last 3 seasons of game of thrones were only bad because they cut what should have been maybe 5 more full seasons into 2.5 seasons. So much context and dialogue was lost in that debacle that the last 3 seasons made no sense when compared to the original 5 seasons. Hell, I would have gone as far as to make a small prequel miniseries about Robert's rebellion to cap off the shows final season. Something like a lord of the rings epic 3 episode film series that would tell the tale about how it all started. Give us the satisfaction of seeing Robert smashing his war hammer during battle.

[@Drums_of_Liberation]

Of course Robert was delusional. You'd have to be if you took one look at Joffery and think he was yours.

[@Somethingclever11111]

It makes sense that Robert was accurately able to describe what a foreign invasion of Westeros would look like. He was a shit king but he was an excellent general and this was his area of expertise

[@TV4Fun2]

People keep harping on how prescient Robert was here, and yeah, he was right, but also, this was a self-fulfilling prophecy. Daenerys had no interest in the iron throne before Robert tried to kill her, and even then it took her another 6 years to actually get to Westeros. Meanwhile, Robert's neglect of matters closer to home lead to a fight between the Starks and the Lannisters and ultimately to the War of the Five Kings, leaving the realm weakened and fragmented, ripe for a Targaryen conquest. If Robert has worked harder maintaining unity within the Seven Kingdoms, it would've been a lot harder for Daenerys to conquer them.

[@brien9648]

D&D had SEVERAL non-cannon book scenes that were BETTER than the books (ex. Arya and Tywin), that's what made their handling of the ending so madding. They had the ability to absolutely crush it, I just don't think they cared anymore.

[@Em-ih5du]

An other great scene that was added was the one between Arya and Tywin. One of my favorite scene in the whole series. I was actually disappointed when I read the book and it wasn't in it :( People kept shouting "incompetent writers" 'til they were blue in the face for the last seasons but it's simply not true. They were great for the first half. The talent was there. I doubt we'll truly ever know the truth of why it feels like they "gave up" on it.

[@thejava.witchiswhispering]

I think Cersei is somewhat correct about her political marriage with Robert "holding the realm together." Robert represents the end of a bloody dynasty: A shining hero who felled the wicked prince, the tragic lover who lost Lyanna. At least in the eyes of the smallfolk. Cersei is an obvious and direct bargaining chip of Tywin Lannister, the bride that tied the Lannister name, fortune, and Tywin's own cunning to Roberts' symbolic strength. Their alliance alone would have easily quelled many an uprising in the 17 years between the rebellion and the pilot.

[@andrewmize823]

I'm impossible to watch mystery shows/movies with, because I almost always figure out who the culprit is before the denouement. I had the suspicion early on that Robert's feelings for Lyanna were one-sided, but I failed to recognize all of the implications until the show was on the verge of the big reveal. The truth should have been blatantly obvious, but for some reason it never occurred to me.

[@Wingcake1]

Its funny i onky knew mark addy from still standing and i swear he was from the midwest he really is underrated from playing a depressed king to a fun loving dad.

[@alexmontenegro9991]

I think Cersei is partially correct from an objective POV and 100% correct from a subjective POV when she says their marriage is holding the realms together. Their marriage was a political agreement between the military alliance of the Starks, Arryns and ruling Baratheons with the rich Lannisters. The time following the rebellion was relatively peaceful with the Lannisters bankrolling Robert and the alliance putting down rebellion following the usurpation of the Targaryan dynasty. While there were a lot of factors in play for the realm's relative stability, the Lannister/Baratheon alliance was definitely a part of it, and it is fully consistent with Cersei's character to fully believe that she is the cornerstone of that peace.

[@briannaal3935]

This is the reason i want a prequel for the rebellion. I feel it would add so much to the story we know and the characters we see. More tragedy i suppose but i do want a better understanding of Robert's character. From my understanding the reason dnd made the show was because they wanted to recreate the red wedding that was Thier ambition so they didn't really know where to go after that.

[@benkellman4577]

Don’t get why people consistently say the rebellion started over Liana being captured/running away. It started because Aerys killed Brandon, Rickard and Brandon’s companions, and demanded Ned and Robert’s heads

[@DCharles]

If Lyanna wasn’t “taken” by Rhaegar, nobody is running to King’s Landing demanding justice. At that point, perhaps war could have been prevented. But at the same time, it was probably inevitable that Aerys would have been overthrown regardless of the Lyanna situation.

[@jjohnsengraciesmom]

Cersei was making a joke about the realm and their marriage.

[@Johnnythefirst]

They didn't run out of source material, they ran out of f*cks to give and the real turning point was season five.