UA Apollo X Shootout vs. BURL & Crane Song for Analog Mastering

[@razoraz]

Always good content here and I appreciate the work you put into it. What a way to introduce a banging track though! Most engaging deep house track I've heard in a long while. Has a similar vibe to one of my favorite remixes of recent years which is "Astral - Ed is Dead tripped remix" by Landikhan & Niña Indigo. (Ed is Dead is a very underrated Spanish producer) But then again I've just been watching a couple interviews with Darius J Wright here on KZbin and I'm on this vibe now to have "the freedom to explore the unseen realms and access all things". I've had a couple out of body experiences but he claims to have a method to "allow you to leave your body at will and explore the true nature of reality beyond the physical realm." I think we need this right now. All is ❤.

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Thanks for your feedback on this, great to read! Will check out the track. I really like the thoughts you shared on unseen realms. Having had similar experiences I totally agree. I think the key is to remember that accessing these realms can be achieved quickly using external influences, but they take their toll on body and mind... I recently heard the some Buddhist schools call this the "smash and grab" method. :D Meditation, connection with nature, music are all great ways to access these layers. Very curious on Darius J wright, will look him up. Have a great one!

[@JesusMTossas]

I been using Burl close to 10 years now. This video profs why I did the BOMMER ADC purchase. I have happy clients every single record I master.

[@risingphoenix1484]

Man that bass and mix sounds fantastic I honestly couldn't tell the difference between converters because the source and mix was such high quality. Fantastic.

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Thanks a lot!

[@risingphoenix1484]

@@RapidFlow_Shop I have a question whats your thoughts on summing mixers? IMO, there is this density that analog seems to have especially in the low end that I just don't feel in the box can replicate especially when you play in a large system. I'm looking at adding the RPN 5059 satellite summing mixer and I'm just not sure if its going to be worth it especially with my new purchases. I am investing heavily into my music now and upgrading all over the place, in my 500series rack I have Maag EQP4, Neve542, SPL Big, and SSL G compressor for my mix bus. I just upgraded my interface from the Apollo x4 (which I still have) to the Orion Studio Synergy Core. Mastering is where I have invested heavily I just recently purchased a Manley nu-mu compressor, SSL Fusion, SSL Bus+, and I also purchased the Neve MBT. I am deciding on my master converters and I am looking at the Antelope Audio Pure 2, the RME AD-I Pro 2 and I came back to this video because the Burl B2 seemed interesting. I was curious on your thoughts on my direction (I wanted flexibility to use new gear in my mix busses not just for stereo buss use) and your perspective on summing mixers.

[@ivangil-silva2044]

The Burl makes the vocals sounds so clear and more real in the mix

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Agreed!

[@M.W.777]

I was honestly surprised....my reaction was: Daayyuuum!! lol

[@siriusfun]

This was great. And not even close: B2 all the way! Cheers.

[@LoomSoundStudio]

To me the clear winner is Crane Song DA to UA AD on Internal clock, the vocal is still getting the magic upper midrange and the bass is nice. Its sounds wider to my ears also, more things pushed the edges of the speaker. Feels more premium, the UA only chain is sounding great for vocals but dosint feel deep overall and more narrow :). Less analog magic coming through to my ears

[@phaseaudio3965]

I agree so accurately

[@seanbrucemedia5695]

Great demo, and dope demo song! Thanks!

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Thanks!!

[@musiclover-r9m]

wow - went to your spotify and love your music. Subscribed & Followed on Spotify! Keep releasing!!

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Thank you! New music is coming soon!

[@dylantlop]

Fantastic video! Thank you so much for the comparison. Bit if a side question for you - which studio desk are you using? I absolutely love the layout!

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Thanks for the feedback! It s a Sessiondesk Gustav!

[@dylantlop]

@@RapidFlow_Shop thank you so much for the reply! Ive been on the hunt for a studio desk and yours looks absolutely ideal! Have a great week!

[@lukecarlson8256]

Crane Song Solaris DA to UA Apollo AD on internal clock was my favorite

[@juanjojara82]

Nice test! Thanks for sharing! I believe that at this level of quality, the diference is so small, that is best to put the money on a more sensitive point of the audio chain.

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

I agree if you are still working on acoustics and monitoring etc. However the difference the Solaris in particular made to the chain used for this mastering was a bit of an eye opener. We both really liked what it did and once you hear it you don't want to miss it...

[@mysosjalapss6488]

There is a HUUUGE difference. Burl takes the cake. All the other sounds flat and boring. I rather have the sound from Burl than any other

[@DarkTrapStudio]

Its good for adding mojo but not for monitoring

[@georginikolov1141]

Geg ifi zen dac 2 similar sound on the cheap

[@billyhughes9776]

Differences are quite subtle -- Crane Song Solaris seemed to sound slightly more exciting in the high-mids and topend, which for this track works well IMO.

[@rylandweet7750]

Question, say if I recorded a song and I saved the mixdown using an Audient interface… and then hooked up a burl and saved the mixdown aswel with that, would the wav mixdowns be different sounding between the Audient vs the burl? Or would they sound exactly the same when I play it on a stereo or in a car?

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

If you are bouncing digitally inside the DAW they would be the same. If you were playing it through the converter and re recording it they would sound different.

[@ramonfelizjr]

Great video are you running te Solaris with the others interface using one computer? I’m trying to figure out how to connect the Solaris, I have the Apollo x and the Burl ADC connected spidif , how you setup the Solaris ? Thx for the help appreciate

[@servellen_music]

The Burl B2 and Crane Song Solaris were both connected to UA Apollo, one using SPDIF and the other Optical connection set to SPDIF protocol). I have an Apollo 8x and Apollo 4x connected and operating as one unit, so believe the BURL is connected to the Apollo 8x SPDIF and the Solar is to the 4x optical which importantly, has the setting allowing to change it from ADAT to SPDIF. Hope it helps.

[@zakaroonetwork777]

So what do you think? I’m listening on a iPhone and the Burl sounds best to me. As in more harmonics and space and a tape like compression that’s shortening transient tails.

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

I personally liked the Solaris going into the Burl best.

[@Persigkeit]

In the segment Crane Song Solaris DA to UA Apollo AD on internal clock the stereo image is reversed. Other than that great video! The Burl seems to make everything better =)

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

You re absolutely right!

[@theflippestside]

you mentioned that the difference was smaller than you assumed, but didn't clarify what exactly is was that you noticed, and for which setup(s). Can you provide a bit more detail? I'd like to listen again taking into account what it is that you're hearing. Thanks

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

The main differences IMO: - Apollo DA into BURL: added low end density and punch. Added MOJO and a bit more cohesiveness. Solaris into BURL: opens the mid frequencies and overall forwardness a bit. Reverbs become more wide and detailed. Vocals pop more. A bit more punch in low end.

[@theflippestside]

thanks man@@RapidFlow_Shop

[@tytansoundlab]

I have the x16,Burl and Dangerous AD+. I mix thru the Burl and master thru AD+. When comparing to Apollo the center image shrunk a tad. I just use my X16 and 2X8s for gear and summing now

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

@@tytansoundlabthat makes a lot of sense, reckon I would do it similarly. I use two Prism Orpheus and use them for everything. Sometimes I wonder if they are still “good enough” after all these years but then Inrealised the differences in this comparison would be possible without a basic hi quality resolution in the track used

[@musiclover-r9m]

Maybe I missed it, but which option did you go with for the release?

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

We went for the Crane Song Solaris

[@TeeDubz]

@@RapidFlow_Shop Captured by? Thanks for the comparison!

[@DJeMo]

2nd one feels more airy and gleam on the highs, bottom 3 carry a lil more hug on the low

[@djgalawak]

hello nice work test EDM for us, i wondering of my apollo output and in, compare to burl, crane clean open ;). i should re test vs my lavry ad11. what you think about merging anubis also ? ;) best vibes

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

I have heard amazing things about the Merging gear and since Neumann acquired them the converters have come down in price...

[@djgalawak]

yes mt48 working great, great density med, low med, nice. output good also ::) have good sound

[@MoreThanMusicStudios]

What camera setup do you have? fire video

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Hey nice one! I am using pretty old Olympus OMD 1 MKII cameras with their line of pro 12-40 2.8 lenses. They can do 4ak and are way cheaper used than anything Sony or Canon currently. Add OBS and a Camlink 4K and you re on your way.

[@ast4127]

Sorry if I missed out: what DA/AD was originally used for this recording?

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Good question. This was all recorded using Prism Orpheus converters…

[@ast4127]

I wonder if there is this little "oomph" low freq warmth in the Apollo that this song benefits from. Its strange how "flat" it sounds with the Solaris. A bit sterile yes. Suprising. Thanks for the test! @@RapidFlow_Shop

[@Truth565]

@@ast4127 There is. The Apollo has some emphasis in the low mid/high bass frequencies.

[@jonathandavidcool]

Thank you for being so kind in sharing! The tracks sound great - Do you really love the Prisms? Do you know what preamp and mic was used? @@RapidFlow_Shop

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

@@jonathandavidcoolI really love the Prisms! They have a great balance of vibe and detail. If I remember correctly the Mic was something not terribly expensive and the Preamp was built into the sound card of the singer. I can ask her. A big part of the vocal sound was running her stems through a pair of GAP LA2 s.

[@gonzaloschroeder3653]

Sample number 3 is switched, you can tell by the HH

[@stevel850]

I hear the Dangerous AD+ is even better than the Burl. Can we hear that comparison?

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Will see if they can send one to test 😊

[@JuanNungaray]

NO it’s not lol

[@stevel850]

@@JuanNungaray Are they both just different and not necessarily better? If the burl is better, what do you find better on it?

[@matt.mastery]

Love this track

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Thanks! It s on steaming 😊

[@RobertRyda]

having aligned them for phase inversion comparison I have used SOUND RADIX's AUTO ALIGN 2 plugin that automatically adjusts the phase relation and it works perfect, much better than any manual adjustments. It finalized the alignment process with the following adjustment numbers (there is some peak to median differences but very few and about 0,1 to 0,2, very neglegible : > APOLLOx DAC - APOLLOx ADC (APOLLO CLOCK) PARADIGM TEST: 0 samples ; > APOLLOx DAC - BURL ADC (BURL CLOCK) PARADIGM TEST: -69 samples ; > SOLARIS DAC - APOLLOx ADC (APOLLO CLOCK) PARADIGM TEST: -16 samples ; (seems to have the BIGGEST difference, read below WHY i think that is) > SOLARIS DAC - APOLLOx ADC (BURL CLOCK) PARADIGM TEST: -16 samples ; > SOLARIS DAC - BURL ADC (BURL CLOCK) PARADIGM TEST: -85 samples. Feel free to nudge these audio files in your DAW and invert the polarity to get the aligned comparison! P.S: I can not understand why the "SOLARIS DAC - APOLLOx ADC (APOLLO CLOCK) PARADIGM TEST" has such a great difference when inverted vs any other audio tracks. like maybe there had been an error while making these audio prints, IDK, but the stereo ambiance is so much different compared against any other audio track from these! P.S 2: Okay it seems like the stereo had been inverted ior the cables have been plugged invertedly R/L instead of L/R for that 3rd track!

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Very interesting Tha K you for sharing. Indeed stereo was accidentally reversed on one file, good catch. Am amazed how closely I got these aligned by ear 👀

[@RobertRyda]

@@RapidFlow_Shop I also use the method of record-printing in ProTools and the ‘delay compensation’ on a smaller buffer indeed places the audio correctly, even though when played back ‘through the loopback wiring’ before recording - sounds like a doubled signal. You could create a new session with cleanly bounced audio just for mastering purposes so that the computer uses no processing, therefore having no initial latency issues. It would work just fine. Keep the compensation on for the next task/test. Do you know if UA’s 8XP has better converters vs the regular X8/X6? I am hoping for your FOLLOWUP video based on these samplecompensated files because quite frankly Id love to learn your opinion on those converters and external clocking. I understand that BURL guves the thickest signal whether clocked or not, but lets hear your opinion 💯❤️

[@DaftFader]

I'd love to see this, but a null test version!

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

That s a good point and something we missed…. Thing is as they are analog bounces not sure how we would be certain about the timing of the audio files…

[@xencraig]

for this track i liked the apollo to apollo with the burl clock. best timbre for the song. but the crane song into the burl was the "biggest" and clearest. but the track wants subtlety and it was "too strident" with that combo. but if you mixed/mastered the track for that chain, that'd perhaps sound best. but i really liked the apollo->apollo with burl clocking for this. i see why the crane song is more expensive, but it may be a little flashy for my taste. people have reported it has a bit of a smile curve with hyped highs and i think that shows here. i was always attracted to the forssell stuff, seemed flatter.

[@xencraig]

also: surprised at how much difference the clock change made!

[@xencraig]

i'd like to have heard the apollo -> burl AD also !

[@b.hornetiii.6771]

The first take starting at 0:54 is magical, it has all that the song needs to be mystical and alive (not too open, but still open enough etc.) at the same time. Other versions are just too perfect and clinical so they paradoxically sound uninteresting, boring.

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Good points! Your fav is Apollo to Apollo on It s internal clock...

[@chipsnmydip]

It's a shame that the Solaris has no clock out, because it has a much better internal clock than the Burl.

[@dentboxhero1717]

I'm just here for the Crane Song :)

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Hahaha can relate to that!

[@dentboxhero1717]

@@RapidFlow_Shop have you tried the Prism Titan? If so would you prefer the Prism or Crane Song?

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

@@dentboxhero1717I use the Prism Orpheus which apparently is the same electronics 99%. I love it s Sound and considering the price point for 8 channels definitely Prism. Also the tracking for this track was done with Prisms so they capture enough details to supply to mastering with Crane Song...

[@dentboxhero1717]

@@RapidFlow_Shop That's good to know as the Prism Titan is on my upgrade plan.

[@victorgarcia6912]

Have you guys noticed that the first Solaris clip has the channels flipped? L&R are inverted than the rest of the clips… maybe that’s tha clarity and 3D you hear… 😅🤣

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Hi Good ears! I did notice that but it was after everything was uploaded. If you flip the channel in the DAW it still sounds better though ;)

[@victorgarcia6912]

Sure! But it worked for me; when I listened to it here in YT I thought it was huge difference until I noticed the channels were flipped 😃

[@nagchumpalot]

Yep! I did notice.. But did not know why thanks for explanation.

[@byus6928]

I just tried a lynx aurora n. Had an Apollo x6 before. All I can say is I Immediately switched from the Apollo. Been using an Apollo since the black face. Them days are over

[@MinisterTravis]

What differences did you notice?

[@byus6928]

@@MinisterTravis the Apollo is darker and murky sounding. The aurora is like taking the blanket off my speaker so to speak. Old mixes just sounded more clear and clean. Modern I guess. Apollo just sounds warmer, muted. The aurora sounds wide and alive. I’m trying my best here lol I know some people say they can’t tell a difference after a certain level with converters. I heard it immediately. I was shocked. Aurora is known for clean and honest. It’s true

[@MinisterTravis]

@@byus6928 I you using the older version or newer version of the aurora?

[@ffseri]

(n) so the newer

[@byus6928]

@@MinisterTravis I’m using the Aurora n

[@MOSMASTERING]

Have just ordered the Burl ADC and DAC to replace my Benchmark DAC after 15 years. I loved that thing, but its time to step up a couple of notches. Also ordered an Apollo 8 to handle the routing.

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Sounds like a super solid setup! Enjoy it 🎉

[@MOSMASTERING]

@@RapidFlow_Shop Ahh, thanks man. And thanks for your channel Loads of great advice on here. I've been upgrading and adding to my studio for 20 years now.. but I've just dropped the biggest amount I've ever spent on upgrades this year as I've been doing really well as a professional mastering engineer and been doing more mixing for people - also working on my own stuff at the same time. Along with the Burl's, I ordered a pair of ATC SCM45a's, Rupert Neve Designs Master Buss, IK Multimedia ARC, TubeTech SMC2B Stereo Multi-Band Valve Compressor and Slate Digital ML-1.. It's gonna take a week to set it all up! I'm so excited!

[@paulsarodh5460]

Thq BRO 🤗💢💞

[@PARISONFIRE]

the difference is not 5 to 10% IMO its far less. The one reason i dont invest in tinkergear like that is that the ONLY chance you could hear the difference is by compairing side by side wich, and thats the hard truth, no customer will ever have on the tracks you present them. Took me years to understand but now I only buy analog that really makes a big difference, everything else stands in the way from getting things done.

[@georginikolov1141]

The solaris with burl makes you shit in your pants

[@studiolee3283]

es muy poco la diferencia , gracias por tu tiempo Rapid Flow

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Es verdad es menos de lo que pensábamos… con mucho gusto!

[@Gianluccazz]

Acabo de escucharlo en samsung galaxy a53 por los altavoces sin auriculares (modo dificil activado😅). Y pff algo leei hace muuchos años que los relojes dedicados a los convertidores les mejoraba la respuedta frecuencial. No se si es cierta pero esa apollo es ponerla en esclava con otro conversor via clock y los agudos y el rango frecuencial lo note maas abierto y nitido no se me sonaba mas musical. En el pase del crane song con apollo de esclavo via clock lo mismo. Y el burl ya lo habia escuchado antes y aunque lo escuche por aca sin auriculares en modo dificil me sigue sin convencer su sonido me suena demasiado a reproductor de cinta analogica. Crane song es ligeramente mas detallado aunque tambien tiene ese sonido a cinta. El crane song tiene esa definicion en los medios y agudos muy particular note que la voz y los graves de la parte mas baja tienen mayor pegada profundidad y definición. Y eso que vuelvo a repetir lo escuche sin auriculares 😅. Me tocara pegarle una escucha bien hecha a profundidad pero las primeras impresiones para mi me impresionaron para bien hacia favor del solaris a pesar de ese roll of que hace en los agudos.

[@soheil.kamali]

❤❤❤❤❤

[@turtlefeet7722]

On my regular PC speakers I hear no difference. They all sound great. At the end the consumer will listen.

[@envisagefilmshouston]

You’re a clown 🤡

[@dspoet1]

To me it's a toss up between the Burl and Crane Song.

[@DanBires]

They all sound great to me. I am going with the Apollo x8. In the end its all subjective.

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Indeed….

[@EmmanuelGracianTV]

Crane Song clear winner

[@envisagefilmshouston]

Like night and day, the crane song converter sounded fatter

[@MuslimShortanov]

Crane song 🎧 is the best here ❤

[@mrmorpheus9707]

Burl.....

[@SpiritualFrequencies-zg5kj]

....APOGEE SYMPHONY smokes all of these ; )

[@RapidFlow_Shop]

Would love to hear that... Have heard good things...

[@JuanNungaray]

Go to sleep kid 🤣😂🤣

[@JuanNungaray]

@@SpiritualFrequencies-zg5kj 🤦🏻‍♂️🤣🤣🤣

[@JuanNungaray]

@@SpiritualFrequencies-zg5kj I’ve had them all kid, Burl is king!!! Your lack of experience is showing, just go to sleep. 🫵🏼🤣🤣🤣

[@JuanNungaray]

@@SpiritualFrequencies-zg5kj damn since 1999? And that’s the sound you’ve managed to attain with all those years gramps? I kinda feel bad now. Good day! 🤣🤣🤣