UK Knife Law - Don't get caught out carrying illegal multi-tools on the trail

[@dbradusc1]

Thanks for the description of the laws. I'm traveling to the UK in a month and this was helpful. I'm am shocked how far your laws have strayed from any sense of reasonability. Self defense is a human right and any government seeking to take that away is guilty of crimes against humanity.

[@fleabit1047]

Cheers Mike, a great and interesting subject. I green lane on a T7 and at this time of year, consistently head down lanes and tracks which are rarely used and are certainly not well maintained. I carry a folding saw (over 3” long serrated blade with a locking saw blade) which has helped me out on many occasions to get through to the end of the trail. At this time of year, the branches are overgrown and often in the way or at a dangerous head height and therefore use this to clear the way as turning around is often a massive ball-ache! Although a grey area, I consider this a legitimate reason to carry within my kit for when needed. I appreciate the law may see this differently but for me it’s a tool for a genuine reason. Keep up the great content mate.

[@twowheeledadventuresuk2739]

I used to carry a saw like that but bought one of these chain type ones and have found it to be brilliant and easy to use - the issue I guess with 'the reason' is you and I might think something is reasonable but what would a court say - I wish you could just ring up the police and ask these sorts of questions, for clarity, because it isn't very clear. www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06X6FVKDX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

[@SteveInskip]

I’d suggest that if you’re biking off-road and your multi-tool is secured in your tool pack i.e. not in your pocket and not easily available, that would be an argument. I’d never carry a multitool in my pocket. Thanks for bringing that up though…certainly something to think about.

[@twowheeledadventuresuk2739]

I don't think that would be a good excuse - the BBB gives examples of carpet fittes getting caught out by just having their tools in their van at a weekend and going to Tesco, so they are not going to or from work but have a locking knife etc in their van, therefore in the eyes of the law they don't have a valid excuse for carrying it - even tho locked in their van and it's a tool of their trade.

[@SteveInskip]

@@twowheeledadventuresuk2739 maybe, but as in UK as you’re innocent until proved guilty then I’d be looking at ‘intent of use’ and as mine takes a couple of minutes to get out, I’d need a very compliant and patient victim. Good for thought though as I said and thanks for bringing the subject up. 👍

[@bikenavbm1229]

just something to consider UK port authority or whatever they are called, the good guys and gals who may pull you in for a word and check before you board the ferry at UK ports know the law. Of course once the other side I am sure our friends the other side would think all this ridiculous. Unsure if the port authority have added even more severe rules for the port area, My leatherman has also done many miles. thanks for the info.

[@iainamurray]

I pointed this out to my father in law who lives on a farm and is always carrying a Leatherman. I suggested he doesn’t take it with him when he goes shopping for example. Started arguing with me about it and I had to stop him, pointing out it’s a judge he needs to convince, not me!

[@twowheeledadventuresuk2739]

Exactly - you can convince yourself as much as you like, it’s the judge and jury opinion that matters

[@MadDogSurvival]

Our laws are ridiculous! …….

[@stanleyknife1967]

Great video. It is so easy to fall foul of the law. Also, even a legal carry knife needs to be used with common sense. For example, turning up at a night club of football match with your non threatening Swiss Army Knife good raise a few eyebrows if caught. I believe there are updates to the law calling into question UK legal carry knives that have thumb holes or studs to make the knife one handed opening?

[@twowheeledadventuresuk2739]

Yes I’ve heard that 👍

[@701Adventures]

An interesting video and a topic which I have raised with the likes of Go Outdoors for example in the past. It is not illegal for them to sell the knives, many of which are lock knives or knives with a blade which exceeds 3” however as soon as you take possession of them even if you are still in the shop as it is a public place theoretically you have committed the offence of being in possession of a bladed article in a public place. The two threshold elements are lawful authority and reasonable excuse. Obviously in the above example the reasonable excuse would be that you have literally just purchased it and are now taking it home. The lawful authority aspect is best applied to someone such as a paramedic who requires a bladed article to remove clothing in order to assess an injury. Locking knives are prohibited regardless of the length of the blade and therefore taking your Opinel with you would be an offence as firstly it is a lock knife and secondly the blade exceeds 3”. So although you say you don’t have any issues carrying a knife such as the Opinel it is in fact a prohibited weapon because it is a lock knife, additionally it has a blade exceeding 3” so it fails on two counts. In theory a Swiss Army knife fitted with a corkscrew could be deemed an offensive weapon and fall under Section 139 as it is a sharply pointed instrument. However common sense has to prevail, if you were found in possession of a knife which slightly exceeded 3” and you were camping for example, unless you had been waving it around in a threatening manner any sensible Police Officer wouldn’t give it a second thought as you would have a reasonable excuse to have it in your possession. A Police Officer can not search you just because they feel like it, they would have to have reasonable suspicion that you had committed an offence. Section 1 of PACE permits an Officer to search for stolen or prohibited articles, i.e. a lock knife so that may be the legislation that they would use. At the ABR Festival this month there will be thousands of people camping, I would bet that most will be in possession of some form of bladed article, myself included. Additionally they have axe throwing there for entertainment. Police Officers do patrol the grounds some in plain clothes, I am not aware of anyone in that environment ever having been arrested for inappropriate possession of a sharply pointed or bladed article. A good video, which covers a very complicated and topical subject. 👍

[@twowheeledadventuresuk2739]

I said I would only take the opinel if camping because then I have a reasonable excuse, same as if I just had a regular knife and fork with me, I need something to chop veg, cut my steak, but wouldn't take it on a regular trail ride because it is indeed over 3" and locking. The BBB covers people carrying knives from the shop to home, saying they then have a reasonable excuse to carry, they have just bought the knife and are taking it home. In the case Crown V Giles Giles had been in some sort of dispute in Cambridge market place I think it said and was searched by the police after the incident and found to be carrying a multi tool. There was another interesting case of a person caught with a locking knife but claimed he carried it because he was inclined to self harm, which his doctors verified, but the court found it not to be a reasonable excuse. I think there will be many trial riders who are completely oblivious to the issues some multitools cause, hence I did the vlog. - thanks for your comments, very useful

[@701Adventures]

@@twowheeledadventuresuk2739 The point I was trying to make regarding your Opinel was that because it is a lock knife there is absolutely no defence in law to be in possession of it. They are a prohibited item, similar to knuckle dusters i.e. there are no circumstances when it would be deemed lawful to require such an item. Obviously ‘normal’ knives are not prohibited items, but are covered under different legislation, S39 CJA which stipulates the length and design of the blade which would be deemed lawful in specific circumstances. There are new knife laws proposed for implementation this year which relate to blades with a serrated edge being carried in public. It’s a minefield, I suspect the likes of you and I would never draw attention to ourselves whilst out in public and whilst being in possession of any type of bladed article so it is highly likely that we would ever be required to be searched, however and quite rightly so in my opinion for idiots who carry knives for criminal purposes a custodial sentence is highly probable if found to be in possession of one. We were always taught that knives are potentially more dangerous than guns as a knife will never jam nor will it ever need to be reloaded. 👍👍

[@kristoffscuba5466]

I agree with you the gerber armbar is not uk legal. What I’m wondering is, if you modded the blade to make it non locking, would that be legal, or would the fact it’s locking in its original form be a problem? Would the police take the time to understand your actual version does not lock? The arm bar is relatively easy to mod to make it non locking, it just needs disassembling and a bit of the blade mounting area grinding off to make it a sort of cam that slides it past the frame lock so the blade will not lock. Tbh I wish gerber would make the bit driver arm on the tool lock, which it doesn’t, and the blade not lock, which it does. That would,be uk legal and improve the usefulness of the bit driver. I carry a knipex cobra xs and a Victorinox cybertool 29 in a leather pouch in my pocket daily. I’d rather carry the gerber arm bar tbh instead of the SAK but I won’t run the risk with the legal situation, even with a non locking modded one.

[@twowheeledadventuresuk2739]

@@kristoffscuba5466 I did think of modding the armbar but it won’t have any lock at all. Just bought a Civivi stylus and the lock on that is pants, makes the knife dangerous to use. Also bought a SAK Alox farmer and I love that, nice daily carry knife which is fully uk legal 👍

[@davidrushing2507]

Are police in the UK allowed to stop and search people just because they feel like it or, do they have to be doing something deemed suspicious?

[@twowheeledadventuresuk2739]

@@davidrushing2507 they can search with or without suspicion

[@ollieford5309]

great video, I thought you were going to say you took an angle grinder and cut the blade off your arm bar and wave to make them legal!!

[@leifiseland1218]

These laws have popped up all over Europe over the years, & I'd argue the problem is the laws, & their implementation. We humans have been using (& therefore carrying) different types of knives since the stone age, since they are such useful allround tools. But in "modern society", we are expected to be more "civilized" by those who deem themselves "better", & usually they also have lost all connection with life & survival & deem it "uncivilized". Morover, it might threaten their right, & ability, to "manage the herd" of domesticated" humans.. I guess one could say it's the sociatal " disease of civilization", which has caused the downfall of civilization multiple times, since it tends to result in societies unable to adapt & meet unexpected challenges..🤔🧐

[@thelanehunterdevon1664]

I took snapped the locking mechanism off my afgan issue SOG. It's locked away in my side bin of the bike. Hopefully I can get away with that and hopefully the police around here are sensible. Not that there are any in Tavi.

[@nnglnd]

KZbin does like to ban comments.

[@nnglnd]

Two comments banned so far . What is freedom of speech?

[@iainamurray]

Freedom of speech means the government can’t imprison you for criticising it. It doesn’t cover KZbin comments.