Ukraine Russia war: has the West got it all wrong?

Rishi Sunak has pledged he'll ramp up Britain's defence budget and announced a £500 million military aid package to Ukraine, in the same week a long-awaited $61billion aid package from the US passed through Congress and the Senate.
(Subscribe: bit.ly/C4_News_Subscribe)
But what is the West’s end game for Ukraine? Is there enough in these aid packages to turn the tide of the war as Russia appears to have gained the upper hand? What more can the West do?
Here to discuss this on The Political Fourcast is former Armed Forces Minister James Heappey and shadow defence minister, Baroness Anderson.
They talk to us about why today's young people in the UK may end up caught up in a future war, how Trump’s second Presidency could change the war and what this all means for the upcoming General Election.
Produced by Silvia Maresca, Shaheen Sattar, Rob Thomson, Calum Fraser, Nick Jackson.
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[@avoicecryingout1043]

These people are delusional when it comes to Ukraine

[@bowenb9336]

These people are delusional when it comes to Ukraine, no, that is not the case. They fall into delusion when it comes to reality, which means they are totally living in delusion.

[@r200ti]

They are puppets, naive and gullible puppets. They do as they are told and and they believe what they are told. Hence the gibberish and meltdowns we get from them.

[@koala6016]

Yes, but that's a gross understatement.

[@7777wilson1]

Yes delusional at best. I couldn't even listen to their lack of reflection their instigation their utter arrogance and pigheadedness

[@ciarandoyle4349]

The voice crying out in the wilderness got his head chopped off.

[@rogerhill138]

Ukrainian sovereignty - what a joke. It's a Western colony.

[@justaguy7083]

Bot

[@marekrudnicki4645]

@@justaguy7083 Nice to meet you, bot. I'm human.

[@Meccano403]

Your exactly right, the west are insane and they just want to see the world burn

[@cockyrustler]

@@justaguy7083 He's not wrong. When a foreign country overthrows your own president and manipulates you into war, provides you with entire weapons and money to sustain you; what kind of independence do you really have? Do you think all those things come for free?

[@kevcification]

I guess they prefer that to being a Russian colony.

[@matthyde3088]

none of these media puppets will go to the front!

[@urban_housecleaner9454]

exactly

[@studio2165]

Neither will we, and they think we're all going to go along with their war against Russia, when in reality most people will say screw you..

[@TheWebstaff]

They are all old so no they won't. It's pretty obvious.

[@stayhungry1503]

@@TheWebstaff but neither will their kids, but they will expect others kids to go

[@justaguy7083]

@@stayhungry1503 idiot

[@markhitchcock2749]

I think my IQ dropped 50 points just listening to these mo's !

[@jackspring7709]

Lol :D

[@JemHadar422]

I call them Abe’s

[@user-qo9br2rz6e]

Colonel Douglas McGregor watch and Learn pls

[@sickboy8682]

Indeed, it most likely did. However, I bet you're still twice as smart as anyone in this panel.

[@sayj1625]

My God, you are hilarious! 😂

[@simonbattle2652]

Another load of complete nonsense by a bunch of muppets

[@justaguy7083]

This is complete nonsense you muppet or are you from Russia?

[@krazyswede11]

😂😂😂🌈🤡 muppets 😂😂😂

[@JemHadar422]

No these puppets

[@LuisMarquez-ui6sr]

These guys are talking like Britain is a superpower and can fight Russia , I am sure the Russian would love to meet them in the battlefield and not barking from afar....The Russian would send you Royal @$$es crying back to England ....these Briyons bark like a pitbull ...but they are little chihuahuas without the Usa they are nothing

[@vanjamenadzer]

@@JemHadar422 well, aren't muppets puppets? So he is technically correct - the best kind of correct.

[@markhitchcock2749]

Ukraine has no chance of winning the war against Russia, and never did have a chance !

[@geraldtraynor]

It wasn't even their war (apart from a bunch of delusional Azovs).

[@alistairnewton8898]

@@geraldtraynor Nailed it.

[@BorisPerc]

But this was not USA goal and vassals GB, goal is to weaken RU.

[@alistairnewton8898]

@@BorisPerc The US dollar will drop like a stone .

[@BorisPerc]

@@alistairnewton8898 yes i know and ordinary people will pay for their admin mistakes + those open borders will only increase crime, like here in EU.

[@veehope2702]

I have no fight with Russia.

[@Igor-us3ou]

BTW russia is our you gest state....and nato is illigaly on our land starting from serbian luisitania east germany

[@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957]

Neither did Ukraine until 2014

[@matty_mcmattface]

Most Brits don't have an issue with Russia, or at least they didn't until the tell-lie-vision told them they should have 👍

[@michaelkrzak5414]

​@@matty_mcmattface sure Ivan. Lol😂 how is the weather in Siberia?

[@well9179]

​@@michaelkrzak5414 how about you Brits?

[@philipclemoes9458]

People like this should not be in positions of power, no wonder we are in a mess.

[@AndrewCooke-dl2dh]

True💯💯

[@kieranbrien3989]

russia has the right to defend itself against nato enlargement

[@lisadefries6718]

I recall my mum telling me about the Cuban missile crisis in the 60s . The USA and Russia/Cuba on brink of very real thermo nuclear war because Cuba was to have Russian nuclear weapons. So from the Russian perspective is it on a practical level so very different to have nuclear missiles based outside Kiev only around 600 to 800 miles from Moscow? I am also concerned with the nature of the Azov movement which is the envy of European fascists . They envy fact they can swagger around with guns and have power other European fascists can only dream of. I am not saying Ukrainian people are Fascists dont mistake me but it’s a concern how blind we all are to this or how our Media prefer us to be blind to it. Ukraine has the right to self autonomy but an equitable solution should be made for Russian speaking Ukrainians . Let’s face it it’s not cut and dried many Ukrainians have Russian relatives and visa versa. Putin was wrong with his expansionist notions of regaining Odessa but he had during talks before continuously said he wasn’t happy about nato weapons being housed in Ukraine. Also the UK and USA sent special operatives/experts to train the Ukrainian soldiers several years before anything kicked off. It’s almost like the USA and already decided how to play this game of chess. So my question is who is expansionist? Is it simply Putins Russia or is it both USA and Russia. Both playing a game of chess with Russian and Ukrainian lives. God forbid this is start of WWW3. The USA and UK who ride on coat tails seem more than happy to have confrontational communications with Russia (pre war) China and Middle East. Three flanked war. The USA is hitting above its weight if it thinks we could win even with combined forces. Yeah we could give them a run for their money but reality is one side or other would just press the button then thats it game over no winners . People need to on mass stop their governments acting in such confrontational manners primarily over fossil fuel and limited resources of precious metals etc (to make chips) and start thinking about the real problem. How we get out of this Climate change mess we are in. That’s the real battle we all need to be united and then we may succeed

[@jonathanjacob5453]

@@lisadefries6718to keep it short what your are saying is: are we the baddies?

[@Bengastar]

@@jonathanjacob5453 for most of the time for the last centuries

[@lupacgluposti1299]

@lisadefries6718 Cuban missile crisis startet by USA bringing nuclear bombs in Turkey and than USSR deside to bring their own on Cuba.crisis ended by US remowing their bombs from Turkish base Ingirlik,not by forceing Soviets out of Cuba.

[@jackspring7709]

Exactly.

[@LeonardOkeke-ti6lm]

NATO simply refused to consider Russian interest and Ukraine is paying the price.

[@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957]

Russian "security interests" amount to being able to march troops into their neighbours territory

[@DeCasoU1]

@@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957 The British were doing that for years. The sea for them was no obstacle, global neighbours and all that. Most have heard of the Cuban missile crisis, it should be called the Ankara missile crisis. Look at which country made the first move which forced the inevitable reaction. The world is seldom what you have been directed to believe.

[@indycoon]

Nobody marched troops into the Ukrainian territory till 2022. Even after a coup in 2014 there was a civil war between Kiev and Donbass. Crimea was protected because it was an autonomy with own parliament and govt. They just refused to recognize the illegal govt in Kiev installed by the West. Even after all this Russia tried to negotiate and organize peace with Minsk agreements.

[@NachttiSchlampE65]

​@@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957 yeah if you start the story in February 2022 that would be a valid point. Unfortunately this has a long history at least back to 2008

[@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957]

@@NachttiSchlampE65 you mean when Russia marched into South Ossetia? 😅

[@davebento1548]

Putin once wanted to join Nato. Putin had good and friendly relations with Europe including gas pipelines prior to Nato pushing it's borders into Ukraine. Russia reacted to that in exactly the same way as the americans reacted during the cuba crisis. Ukraine decided not to join nato prior to 2014 which it had a right to do as a sovereign democracy. As a result the americans overthrew that democracy and installed a vassal state that did not represent all ukranians. If you argue ukraine is a sovereign state it is nothing to do with america, nato or the uk. There is no alliance with ukraine. This is a dispute between two sovereign states that should be resolved by them. America, Nato, the EU and Uk should not be involved in any way in ukraine. The people in areas of ukraine currently occupied by russia - including crimea - did not want to be part of the kiev government created at gunpoint - not the ballot box - by america. Putin did not even want to invade ukraine, let alone any nato or european country. He wanted a neutral ukraine, not to invade it. It was nato's insistence which began with the bucharest summit in 2008 that ukraine would be a nato country that caused this war. Putin has been in power for 20 years and has never invaded or threatened an eu or nato country. As I said he was a friend of europe until nato moved east, he did not move west. Janokovich the last democratically elected leader of a sovereign ukraine chose to be neutral and friends of both russia and europe. A prosperous peaceful ukraine. There are millions of mothers, brothers, wives and children in ukraine who would think neutrality would have been a small price to pay. The truth is here kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZ-2kJhmo5lqbLs

[@indycoon]

You are correct. I live in Crimea. Russia didn't invade Crimea in 2014 as Russian troops are staying here since 1783. Russia has a Navy base in Crimea. Oh course, we didn't want to be ruled by USA or NATO, so Crimea refused to recognize the illegal powers and decided to join Russia in order to be protected and peaceful. People voted for it on a referendum. Crimea was an autonomy with own parliament and government. They declared a referendum legally unlike Kiev.

[@joyaku3078]

THE TRUTH IS SPOKEN HERE 🙏👏👍

[@justaguy7083]

Propaganda

[@jaroslavzaruba2765]

the Cuba crisis is not a great analogy - because it was merely Russian response to US staging nuclear weapons in Turkey

[@joyaku3078]

@@jaroslavzaruba2765 the most funniest thing kennedy asked Russians when Russians removed thier missiles from Cuba was Russia not to mention usa removed its missiles from Turkey also😂😁😁Kennedy was hiding from usa public that they have installed missiles in Turkey which made Russia to install Its missiles in Cuba as retaliation

[@eddieokpara3549]

NATO moved closer to Russia in a way, the Soviets were not allowed to get close to the U.S. through Cuba. That is the problem. Russia has a right to self-defense.

[@alistairnewton8898]

Very true .🧐

[@vitaliyt8571]

So why Russia dont attacks Finland which already in NATO ?

[@vanjamenadzer]

@@vitaliyt8571 Because Finland doesn't have the capacity as UA had to be trained and prepared for a proxy on RU. And because RU doesn't want a war on NATO. That's why Ukraine turned out to be the proxy between west, lead by USA and east, led by RU and China.

[@JamesSmith-je7vf]

@@vitaliyt8571 They will be if US missiles are stationed there.

[@forrester1100]

These guys live in an alternative universe. Russia is winning and Ukraine does not want to fight anymore.

[@user-fy5nl2qc5o]

Its true!!! 5 or 10 years in prison if you refuse joint army in Ukraine!!

[@jkandiechesang]

​@@user-fy5nl2qc5omost Ukraine would rather take 12 yrs in jail.

[@user-fy5nl2qc5o]

​@@jkandiechesang Its not true I have friends Ukrainian they don't want to die for elite money !!!!100 000 left front line and millions in Europe hiding from Ukraine government !!!! I watching Ukrainian news too

[@user-fy5nl2qc5o]

@@jkandiechesang Its not true !!!

[@jkandiechesang]

@@user-fy5nl2qc5o we are saying the same thing.

[@TransSpewMan]

Has anyone even listened to Russias concerns and demands ? ?

[@imtiazakand3174]

😂😂they said.they want strategic defeat of russia.

[@jackspring7709]

The political class wanted tho get their hands on all Russia's natural resources and break the country up: they didn't want to listen.

[@zeusc7140]

Yes, Russia only wants to reconstitute its empire - including, apparently, Alaska.. That is all.

[@janstaes2172]

after the fall of the wall, the usa and the eu pledge not to move one inch to the east. (read up jeffrey sachs) now the usa and the eu are on the border of the russian federation. they do not understand that the russian federation is prerseving this as an existantial treath. the usa has something called the monroe doctorine. one should read this than one could see how hypocrital the usa and eu are. JFK during the cuban missile crisis had it right: Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate. Let both sides explore what problems unite us instead of belaboring those problems which divide us. (JFK)

[@vitorlopes2064]

The answer in no. Neocons WANTED this war

[@user-yc4xf8cv5y]

This puppets journalists are crying for Nazis Ukraine 😂😂

[@justaguy7083]

You Russian muppet

[@7777wilson1]

So absolutely pathetic! UK is trying to lead the way for their own self relevance which believe me will only lead to utter failure, destruction of Ukraine for generations UK is broke, bullying & utter brain-dead belligerent of the world🤦‍♀️

[@7777wilson1]

Oh my God I can't believe these 'representative' Stooges! To keep Britain safe is not by loading it up with insatiable, useless war debt. GB is utterly broke with its mismanaged fiat currency which it just prints irresponsibly, but it's citizens don't want to fight huge war against Russia. They're already fighting a war within their own country & losing cuz their leaders are so delusional & historically the most outrageous, propagandised Russiaphobic Western regimes, is pathetically worse than Lithuania - a loud, snappy-yappy stupid dog barking to obobfuscate its irrelevance, ineptitude & ignorance 🙏✌️

[@dname1802]

Yes, because they know they are not going to the front. Neither their children.

[@wandersurjit]

No, they are crying for their war industry back home.

[@user-yc4xf8cv5y]

The political system in UK is rotten 😂😂😂🔥

[@r200ti]

That the main issue here. Its not the US, EU, Ukraine or Russia. Its our system is broke. If we had real leaders we would never be in this situation. They have put there globalist fantasies ahead of the country.

[@BorisPerc]

Yes agree but here in EU same stuff all love usa printed dollars

[@aloveoffateproduction880]

DID AMERICA , UK & NATO RESPECT "THE MINSK AGREEMENT" WEST NARRATIVE IS NOT THE WORLD'S NARRATIVE UNDERSTOOD!!!

[@justaguy7083]

Did Russia? I don’t recall the bit allowing annexation of Ukraine

[@marekrudnicki4645]

@@justaguy7083 Hi bot, nice to read you again.

[@aloveoffateproduction880]

@@justaguy7083 Ok so after the Minsk Agreement 1991 why did Albania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Poland, The Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia joined NATO? I mean we had an Agreement right signed by very heavy dignitaries so who broke the agreement first?.. Regarding Ukraine entire world recalls Blinken visit to Ukraine for the process and discussion of Ukraine joining NATO and once the war actually started in the beginning phase it was Boris Johnson who told Zelenesky not to proceed with negotiation held in Istanbul if the negotiation had proceeded this war would have ended in the initial phase only.....in return if u can please reply to my questions 1) Why did America invaded Iraq and did it find any WMD 2) Why did America also invaded Afganistan and then left it in a broken state .... West's narative is not worlds narative anymore.... everyone knows now it's an American proxy war to attain a strategic defeat of Russia......if Zelenesky had told Putin well before that Ukraine will never join NATO this war would have never started in first place now they are paying the price for it with their own lives.

[@jackspring7709]

Exactly.

[@r200ti]

@@justaguy7083 Your a bright one arent you. The minsk agreement was in place so Russia wouldnt need to. The west broke the agreement so Russia rolled in, as the promised if the west broke the agreement.

[@kidgamer9399]

Are these UK analysts? I wonder why Ukraine is being wiped out of the map.

[@Viewable11]

No, they are former and current top level politicians.

[@doctorm420]

@@Viewable11 So, they are idiots in other words. But I enjoyed watching this. It is like some comedy show.

[@Viewable11]

@@doctorm420 More importantly, they are imperialists who haven't realized yet that the British empire is no more and the British cannot commandeer world affairs anymore. They are trying nonetheless, which makes them very dangerous.

[@ConradAinger]

This Heappey character talks as though our training will make Ukrainian formations superior to their Russian counterparts. Evidently untrue. Their summer offensive of 2023 was defeated, and they are being overwhelmed at this very moment. NATO has no experience of war against a peer opponent.

[@Viewable11]

Training the military of another country waging war makes UK a participant in that war. This has been happening for many months, and the public has been lied to about this all the time.

[@user-lv5rs6hc8i]

I am sorry but this is all nonsense

[@jackspring7709]

Well said.

[@AndrewCooke-dl2dh]

It's all a load of bs ...they know sweet fa about why the war started ...US /UK instigated

[@pippip8744]

If it wasn't nonsense, how would it make it to Channel 4 News?

[@jimmeryellis]

Stupid conversation!

[@felipe-vibor]

As an outsider am really surprised at gow clueless British media and their so called experts are.

[@julianhill4538]

PROPAGANDA RUBBISH

[@lilacer6841]

C4 propaganda

[@kom17]

can anyone list 3 things UK has done to achieve PEACE in Ukraine instead of taking part in a war against Russia?

[@frankaczmarek3042]

Boris Johnson in 2022 stoped Ukraine/Russia peace negotiations in Turkey.

[@geoffreybyamukama1018]

How can you activate NATO Article 5 when Ukraine is not a member of NATO?

[@Viewable11]

He theorized about invoking NATO's defense obligation on behalf of UK if an UK military base in Ukraine gets attacked by Russia.

[@Rotuts]

@@Viewable11 why has UK a military base in an country that there's a war going on ?

[@Viewable11]

@@Rotuts They do not officially, this discussion is about building one. There had been NATO run training camps in Ukraine that quickly got blown up by Russian missiles.

[@vanjamenadzer]

How can OTAN launch a war of aggression against a sovereign country that is having domestic terrorism issues?

[@rdsc.455]

India militarily snatched the region of Goa from NATO member Portugal in 1961. Goa had been part of Portugal for the past more than 450 years. Portugese being a founder member of NATO had asked for help, raised many hues and cries to invoke NATO articles but all in vain and regions of GOA, DAMAN & DIU merged into India in 1961.

[@user-Red528Smoke]

Do we needs to listen to these muppets ? No we don’t

[@AndrewCooke-dl2dh]

I listened to it for less than 5 mins ...then realized they know nothing and just talking total garbage

[@rostislavmulyeev760]

The very large lady has clearly forgotten the reason why Russian troops were sent into Crimea. Very convenient.

[@leyubar1]

Given that there is only woman on the panel, your conspicuous choice of adjectives comprise a grotesquely unnecessary ad hominem attack… a tell-tale sign of someone with nothing of substance to say

[@tonycoxall7370]

@@leyubar1 You mean they were a bit rude. OK, but it's not that serious, particularly in relation to what their discussing.

[@leyubar1]

@@tonycoxall7370 The puerility of the attack surely belies political prejudice

[@tonycoxall7370]

@@leyubar1 Most of us are politically prejudiced!

[@leyubar1]

@@tonycoxall7370 It is not a virtue

[@inervin]

Maybe it is better to consider genuine Russian interests and negotiate?

[@frankaczmarek3042]

But the whole reason was to provoke Russia and start the war in order to weaken Russia. America doesn't care about Ukrainians. They are just useful tools to them.

[@user-yc4xf8cv5y]

Puppet UK is falling🧐😂

[@conchaivn]

These people sound like they know how to win. Ukraine needs them in the front.

[@frankaczmarek3042]

especially those two fat ones.

[@tedstewart114]

These people sound like they know how to start a nuclear war, thankfully they have no idea of the consequences and hopefully no one will listen to them, laughing as they suggest they know British troops are still, silly public schoolboys thinking they are the big boys in the playground, the last thing they'll see is their own shadows emblazened on the pavement by a nuclear flash if they continue down this route.

[@Titoscudd]

Lies! Putin didn't oppose Ukraine partnership or membership of the EU. What he opposed was NATO presence in Ukraine and on Russia's border.

[@jerboa303]

I’ve been reading through the comments here, and I don’t think I’ve seen any agreeing with these delusional muppets 😂

[@jackspring7709]

Me, too. Its great to see that nobody has been hoodwinked by these lying ghouls.

[@igboanugoemeka]

Here here😂

[@spudwesth]

Reassuring. The insanity is not catching.

[@captainahab9602]

Bri’ish intellectuals be like we need to go to war to prevent war

[@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957]

No... They said we need to prepare for war so that our deterrent is potent enough to stop war from actually happening

[@jackspring7709]

My advice to them is to saddle up and go straight to the front themselves.

[@r200ti]

And a lot of punters go along with it. Utter bonkers.

[@isacr4063]

Are you guys all nuts? Talking so blithely of war. Do you even understand the consequences?

[@jackspring7709]

The elite and their minions have been doing it for hundreds of years: old habits die hard.

[@frankaczmarek3042]

They will get rich and poor would fight and die

[@evelinekrutzler5798]

Sunak is a puppy and dump

[@SS08947]

Ukraine has to win? Against a nuclear super power? Okay, right.....And it is Putin, not Pewtin.

[@Nauda999]

When Ukraine and Georgia was invited to join in NATO 2008 Bucharest summit, Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel said that Russia would see that as declaration of war, and so did President of France Nicolas Sarkozy, and current CIA director William J. Burns who in 2008 was US ambassador to Russia and many others. And 16 years later question is, "is the West ready to go to war?" Isn't it bit late for this question? should it have been asked some 20 years ago?

[@stephenhill545]

Do many Russians watch channel 4? I didn't think quality journalism was your thing, more teaching 6 year olds to fire guns and handle daggers.

[@tonymaries1652]

Ukraine and Georgia are independent sovereign countries and it is purely up to their governments to decide whether they go neutral or join NATO. Not Russia. Sarkozy and Merkel are no longer in power and the international situation has changed. Russia is a serious threat to it's neighbouring European countries.

[@jerboa303]

Bill Burns is now CIA director, he knows the reality.

[@rdsc.455]

They as well as BALKAN countries should check history and learn something from the 1961 Indian annexation of the Portuguese GOA region , although Portugal a founder member of NATO in 1949 tried everything including to invoke article 5 but nothing helped and regions of GOA, DAMAN & DIU had been merged into India by quick Indian Army opration.

[@thamimasuku3443]

😂😂😂😂 this absurd idea of a strategic defeat for Russia by just having UK boots of the grounding running training programmes is hilarious. l can’t imagine the blowback from flag caskets arriving daily.

[@frankaczmarek3042]

Sunak is sending to Ukraine some small boats. This is NOT a joke. You can check

[@user-yc4xf8cv5y]

Delusional 😂😂

[@ciaranryan5265]

This is why Channel 4 is unwatchable these days.

[@jimmeryellis]

How on earth did she get elected with such an ignorant and ill informed understanding of geopolitics.

[@jackspring7709]

That's why she was 'selected'.

[@cornpopsrazor5375]

She looks like she ate enough for a whole platoon......time for fairy Lou's like these men get their Nancy asses to the front.

[@johnniea4684]

Shadow Defence Minister, no less.

[@jonathanjacob5453]

A drop in the ocean indeed, Britain is no longer a participant in the big game. Move on and focus on solving the issues faced by your population.

[@bencarmona8671]

pure delusion, mixed with dishonesty and contempt for those who they send to die on the front lines

[@midnattsol6207]

Even discussing this is absurd - what are you doing?

[@crow22zero]

Why?

[@CollectiveWest1]

What do you mean?

[@hoewaxcandles]

Journalism tf?

[@colin7832]

I agree

[@neolynxer]

They are elitists. They really believe they will survive this. They are just not sure if they will thrive after.

[@user-mu3yp6ru6b]

Stop NATO

[@TheWebstaff]

Stop nato? It's defensive? Soit would only stop if nobody threatens it's members?

[@lilacer6841]

​@@TheWebstaffwho is defensive? NATO. Lol 😂😂😂

[@justaguy7083]

Troll

[@user-fy5nl2qc5o]

@@TheWebstaff They all ways found treat!!!Big money involved!!!

[@pertpesc7058]

North Atlantic Terror Organization.

[@rostislavmulyeev760]

How awful if Russia suddenly appeared at Europe's borders!!! Yet it's absolutely fine for NATO to appear on Russia's....

[@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957]

if Russia doesn't want NATO on its borders, why is it trying to move its western border right up to it?

[@Shaft1367]

​​@@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957 how old are you again kiddo?

[@user-tu6eb9bm5k]

@@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957 Finlad, Lithuania, Estonia, Letonia?

[@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957]

@@user-tu6eb9bm5k and if NATO using its territorial reach as a means of getting nukes close to Moscow was the aim, we'd have put them in the Baltics years ago, and Finland (and Sweden) wouldn't have joined on the condition of not hosting them That's before we consider that annexation of Ukraine would bring Russia's border into contact with major, long-standing NATO members in central Europe anyway

[@michaelh878]

​@@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957Luckily Russia isn't trying to annex Ukraine.

[@whalefish83]

Leering, lying media class.

[@Tina-jh2sk]

Britain is not under threat…this is so rhetorical…concentrate more on your domestic issues

[@julianhill4538]

THIS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF MEDIA CORRUPTION!!! MAYBE IF WE VOTE FOR GEORGE GALLOWAY WE CAN AVOID WW3 LOL

[@frankaczmarek3042]

100 % you are right!

[@eamiris5880]

It always amazes me how the brits still see themselves as a power to be reckon with.All their military personell would fit in a single football field.They are just a shadow of what they were and they don't seem to understand that yet.A little island ,that is what you r now and the sooner you realize that the bettr

[@MrSCOTTtheSCOT]

The public realize this , the dribble and pish out of these mouths is ludicrous but the government has to lean on our TV channels to put forth some propagandist rubbish, We have about 30k troops the UK putting anything together to take on Russia on the ground is nonsense the only break that the uK has is a number of nukes that might or might not launch from our subs. THe political class are pretending to get tough they have forgotten they have fked over the public for the last 20 years and we care not about them let alone will see them get conscripted brits to bolster our tiny armed forces to fight Russia .

[@comment6864]

it’s a good question, but strangely there is a pretty simple answer. the snakes think they are still way more clever and their deviousness will always carry them through. you know.. the 007 syndrome. I think they literally believe that stuff, even if subconsciously, it’s what they grew up on.

[@spudwesth]

They have lost their Capital city -- 46 % British. France cannot protect its own churches from migrants -- 1,000 burned each year.

[@circularisnotthis]

What are these people talking about? Have they lived in Tory Britain for the last 14 years? The uk is broken. In order to fund this escapade in the Ukraine we’d need some next level spending that we just cannot afford. And frankly I don’t want British troops dying in another foreign war because of ‘ideology’.

[@user-mu3yp6ru6b]

SPOT ON

[@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957]

what ideology? the ideology of not being under the thumb of a literal dictator?

[@amilawedikkara2292]

Unaffordable proxy war.

[@circularisnotthis]

@@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957 I’m sorry but has Russia threatened you ? Have we seen a Russian backed alliance encircling us?

[@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957]

@@circularisnotthis do you believe we should have stayed out of WW2? Hitler never threatened us, afterall...

[@EarthWatcher736]

More rubbish from privately -educated C4 propaganda.

[@Cocoluna66]

General Zhukov once said after taking Berlin in May 45 : We liberated Europe from fascism but they will never forgive us

[@kenrie20022]

China is investing heavily on green energy while in the west all we discuss is war. Following US path is a disaster.

[@Trip4man]

But wait!.... We Environmentalists are "Left Wing Lunatics". There isn't a catastrophe occurring in our natural resources that ACTUALLY puts humans and life, in general, at danger! Noooooo, we are more concerned pushing Left wing ideology and implementing authoritarian rules because you know.... No ONE has a responsibility or duty on it.... It's like you can sh*t on everbody's yard because - Freedom. (sarcasm)

[@truthseeker8581]

How can this guy (Paul Macnamara) smile and laugh when he is discussing matters of life and death and the horrors of war! Fully consitent with the stupidity and incompetence of political and other leaders of our present times. Heapey is no less mindless in believing that Ukraine can win and that a UK training intervention can just stop there (do we remember VietNam)! Who is left in Ukraine to use what is being given?

[@jackspring7709]

Exactly. He's a psychopath a minion of the elite who has probably done very well out of being their lapdog. its a game to these animals.

[@johnmcentegart007]

War footing. The British could not fight their way out of a paper bag. The U.K is a tiny Island fool.

[@gsomethingsomething2658]

- For a "tiny island fool" to have had the largest empire ever, that was an astonishingly impressive achievement! - The UK runs world offshore banking, essentially a second empire. Don't count them out yet.

[@euphoriaggaminghd]

​@@gsomethingsomething2658I wonder how offshore banking will help in a major war when the UK are pathetically weak compared to what they were

[@derrickjoseph4995]

​@gsomethingsomething2658 that was 200-300years ago when those colonies were backward , illiterates. Today some of those former colonies can come n colonize little britain. :) BTW for Russia ,all Western European colonial powers failed in their invasions of Russia till 1940s. Then today if they try, they will get their rearends handed to them in notime, n little britain will stand no chance on its own due to its puny size.

[@bapalorininya8128]

​​@@gsomethingsomething2658Yiu love to live in the past ,good for you. Reality is,Britain can be ignored ,its nothing now.

[@gsomethingsomething2658]

@@bapalorininya8128 If there's anything we've learned from the last 500 years, it's to never count little Britain out.

[@occupyscience-9479]

This is pathetic. Where is logic gone? STOP WARS STOP YOUR LIES

[@koala6016]

The 'west' has been wrong about Russia for a long time, let alone since 2014 or 2022. Which universe have these characters been living in?

[@cjshev]

I'm not fighting for these bastards.

[@bjorntrollowsky4279]

The british aggressive foreign politics looks like the aggressive little puppy barking at everything on behalf of its owner, while the owner is calmer, the owner being the USA :D

[@maxthemagition]

All I hear here is a bunch of warmongers. Shame!

[@carolinebaione]

This war is not libya or iraq

[@brightonboka3013]

Very delusional n naive, the amount of russiophobia is unimaginable, de touched from reality,

[@barrymcdonagh1453]

Why didn’t they listen to Putin when he said not to put Nuclear weapons in Ukraine on its borders and for Ukraine not to join NATO, This was already agreed upon. What made the west break this agreement.

[@andrewkeen1583]

Politicians feel special when talking about war

[@munnychinni5386]

British propaganda 😂😂

[@well9179]

Of course dude!!!

[@justaguy7083]

You are not a complete idiot so you must be a Russian troll in St Petersburg

[@allenmouldey7784]

As a Canadian I can't believe that you are actually talking about going to war to back the call of the lunatics in the US. All of this hype about what Russia might do later. Playing fast and loose with other people's lives.

[@Samuel-hd3cp]

No. We aren't remotely willing to fight Russia for Ukraine. People won't stand for it. It's not a vital interest for us. Forget it!

[@franciscouderq1100]

It s vital but with without interest 🤔🥴

[@JQ-999]

Ukraine is not your sacrificial lamb!

[@dezurniprovokator373]

It is! And they are proving!

[@000Timothy]

Nothing to do with us. Thanks but no thanks.

[@franciscouderq1100]

Says Chamberlain….

[@ginlane2867]

@000Timothy Well I hope that'll still suit you when the Russians are marching up Whitehall!

[@000Timothy]

@@ginlane2867 typical fear monger. Oh the Russians are coming! Why don’t you volunteer yourself to fight in the frontlines of Ukraine then?!

[@user-fy5nl2qc5o]

@@ginlane2867 What about Ukraine Nazi they already in London!!!

[@tonycoxall7370]

@@ginlane2867 You seriously think that will happen? I think there would be Nuclear warfare long before that would occur.

[@rogerioportugal7766]

Bla,bla,bla. You're all a bunch of talking heads. 😂😂😂😂😂

[@hexxan007]

I found this talk quite alienating, with - in short - the crew joking and laughing about the possible upcoming of WWIII. Thankfully the common sense in the comment section gives me hope.

[@josephsumog-oy8503]

Western media is admitting defeat😂

[@jackspring7709]

If Ch4 had been reporting what's really been happening there from the beginning......but there again, judging by the comments section, nobody has been hoodwinked by these ""experts"".

[@serotoninexplosion7060]

I expect that you and your family members in this "expert" panel will be at the front line then ?

[@justaguy7083]

See you there

[@jackspring7709]

Well said.

[@efghggdxlmfn33]

pathetic 'journalism'

[@fmate7109]

Why did these guys not mention the screwed negotiations in March 2022? Warmongers

[@realitycheck1883]

Ruth Smeeth named in Wikileaks as a US intelligence asset. Also used to work for the Israel lobby group BICOM

[@user-kn4hp4hk5c]

British special forces have been active in Ukraine for 18 months or more but putting a British base in Ukraine would be a recipe for disaster. War with Russia may already be inevitable now anyway but a permanent military base would escalate the procedure significantly. Britain simply are not ready for a full scale war at this point, I think we're playing a very dangerous game right now.

[@well9179]

British and majority of western folks still consider Russia as backward nation, thank to their media.

[@jackspring7709]

TBH brit forces have been there since 2014 when the conflict began in Donbas. None of the media likes to talk about how this has all been raging since 2014.

[@comment6864]

What makes anyone think that RUSSIA would even give them a chance to build that base?😅

[@lolipopcrash]

​@@comment6864Russia let them build base and will destroy it after including live stock.

[@HuxleyWasRight]

Notice not one person is calling for talks! Why not?!?!?

[@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957]

putin and macron "talked" days before the invasion putin lied

[@graham6681]

USA..........

[@Viewable11]

Hubris.

[@comment6864]

arrogance and stupidity

[@TheAntsh]

They have a script from US state dept

[@PatrickBeowolf-jt4nq]

✌❤ to Russia from the UK

[@SkyNet-T-1000]

Defence spending takes money away from the NH, education & other services

[@habeniyaa]

Rishi Sunak is quite a stranger for every situation including his primership and would you please excuse him ? I would only like to advise MPS to not allow him to send a single unit of British military members to go and die for none sense proxy Ukraine !

[@frankaczmarek3042]

Yesterday some British officers were bombarded in a hotel close to a front lines.

[@Deifaktre]

I lost interest when the minister for sausages started talking.

[@mattgbam]

What about the eurosausage?

[@bearbaler1456]

​@mattgbam it got stolen by Russia when they invaded the butchers,... word in the NATO supermarket is that they intend to invade the bakery if the butchers runs out of sausages???

[@antdowd918]

Russia in a land war in 2025 and beyond? Laughable, have you seen their population demographics? And whilst trying to hold Ukraine? Nonsense.

[@fabianelsen3716]

One of the few rational comments on here.

[@studio2165]

Yeh, one day they say how rubbish they are, and in the same breath they say he's the new Hitler and he's going to invade western Europe.. lol its nonsense..

[@abr00ky]

Hope you are right.

[@tomdebacco6747]

I assume while British are at war that their Muslims will entertain their wife’s and daughters instead of being in the military.

[@studio2165]

Its not the number of troops they have that bothers me, its tbeir arsenal of nuclear weapons that bothers me the most..

[@Gasbap]

We need to be honest about the prospect of war. Yes, I agree, so start telling people Russia isn't coming here....

[@guyekorgar1459]

Quarter of a million Is all you have as army? What a joke

[@cornpopsrazor5375]

They don't even have that really.....their navy is a bust.....they are broke......and no one who would be sent to do the real fighting cares about Ukraine

[@johnniea4684]

Much less, actually.

[@paulthomas-hh2kv]

US have give Ukraine enough to last till US elections

[@trevzmist6044]

No one’s going to war 😂😂😂 let all the elites fight for there country

[@truthseeker8581]

Watch out, they will send you and me while they continue laughing!

[@samsungtap4183]

Just look at these talking heads...laughing joking, their snouts in the trough...making money out of war. When they are frog marched out put up against a wall perhaps they'll stop smirking.

[@jackspring7709]

Exactly. Its a party to them. They're animals.

[@captainahab9602]

Seething angloids acting like they’ll do one better than Napoleon and operation Barbarossa when they got ran out of Armagh by paddies w Libyan surplus small arms

[@Hesham_MK]

The American Empire in addition to weakening Russia also wanted Europe to be fully dependent and just by comparing where they were before the war in Ukraine (look at who owns the agricultural lands today). The truth is, that these wars are all about world dominance and hegemony not wining.

[@jackspring7709]

Exactly.

[@carolinebaione]

Talk for Peace . Ukraine cant win this war

[@radiofun232]

The UK journalists must stop these warmongering video's. Makes no sense. Start talking with the Russian Federation. 27 April 2024.

[@hmhm8007]

.Lots of BS

[@realitycheck1883]

"leading the conversation on Ukraine" but losing the actual war to Russia. The opportunity for a diplomatic settlement was there with Minsk agreements and the Istanbul draft armistice in April 2022.

[@jackspring7709]

Exactly. Both of which were scuppered with relish by our despicable leaders.

[@Viewable11]

Until UK prime minister Johnson went to Kiev and ordered president Zelensky to not sign a ceasefire treaty.

[@comment6864]

@@Viewable11 as a result, he has lots of blood on his hands

[@importantname]

Ask the British Public - put it to the vote = what percentage of GDP should be spent on Defence Forces. 1, 2, 5, 10.....? If the nation then goes to war completely unprepared and is conquered, it is the publics fault. But if politicians dont bother asking - it is the governments fault.

[@gorgu08]

That’s what governments are their for to take representative decisions on behalf of the public

[@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957]

yeah, i don't want to be dragged into russia's sphere of influence by the moronic british public, thanks very much

[@comment6864]

nah, I would pose the question more concretely- do you want your son to go die fighting in Ukraine?

[@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957]

@@comment6864 people didn't *want* to fight in either world war, either...

[@comment6864]

@@tarqinquentinsson-obviousl957 sorry, that's not a concrete answer to my concrete question about NOW

[@jackspring7709]

I would strongly advise you to read your comments thread, Ch4.

[@frontseated5983]

Such a bunch of wise men, leading Great Britain to more colonial greatness. Of course, totally subservient to the American hegemony.