Ultimate Ashes of Creation Round Table: Augments, PvX and PvE vs PvP!

Hello, glorious community! Welcome to another episode of Tangents of Creation. Tonight, we're diving into Ashes of Creation augments as well as the debate between PvX, PvP, and PvE. Join us as we break down these systems, share our thoughts, and discuss your feedback on these exciting topics!
🗣️ Discussion Points:
Overview of the Augment System
Our Key Takeaways and Excitements
Addressing Your Concerns
Comparisons with Similar Systems in Other Games
Thoughts on PvX, PvP, and PvE
Our special guests for tonight are Xillin, Llewdlloyd, and Kreirian.
Join the Tangents of Creation crew as we explore these topics, share our insights, and hear your feedback. Let's make Ashes of Creation even better together! See you in the chat! 🚀
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[@raspernor11]

I had to roll back my update too. Major suckage from M$ this time. Thanks for the stream guys! :D

[@LaenayaSathe]

I havent finished but just wanted to say about Augments - the chart of all 64 class names has been out for years and if they intend to keep to that list.... Well i think the augment system should be a variety of dramatic, medium and small changes to existing skills to make the class feel like what its called. If Rogue/Cleric is a "Cultist", im envisioning mostly a Rogue but a) your skills now have a fairly creepy set of visuals replacing your normal shadowy abilities and b) your class is defined by Lifesteal shenanigans. Red symbols on the ground when you throw a heal that looks like a small dagger, your character turns into a hooded shadow and side steps incoming attacks instead of a normal dodge, your invisibility might be replaced with a shadow walk, you heal people with a bloody red magic with Harbinger imagery all around or something, and an element of creepy chanting in the spell sound design. You get an energized buff when you sneak attack one hit kill another player. And all this is done by blending cleric mechanics into rogue skills. Look at the entire Summoner list. Summoner/Tank is a Brood Warden. Summoner/Cleric is a Necromancer. I would think this changes your summons' visuals and behavior entirely. To swarms of spiders, for the Brood Warden maybe, and your tank Wall ability is changed into spider web. Your character now is not slowed by most other abilities and your crowd control has spiders popping out of the ground to grab people midbattle or something. Like the titles of these roles have always made me think that augments would change visuals and abilities in a way that makes the role truly unique and yet on a mechanics level, its really just combining what another Archetype skills does. So i dunno how hard that is but im hoping the playstayles feel and look unique, and live up to the titles they were given. Id like to know and see these classes on sight. Like. If im out in the field in a fight and i turn the corner and suddenly im stuck in a sheet of webs for 5 seconds, I KNOW what kind of tank just caught me and is preparing a venomous swipe on me just beyond the wall. I think thats way more fun and has a higher power fantasy feeling than a normal Tank with small mechanics changes. At the very least, even without visuals, the class should FEEL altered and be aboe to do soe thing 63 other classes mostly cant.

[@hasumoto1707]

I agree, it should feel like and played in a different way, when you change the secondary (for the very most part). But I also think, sometimes even small changes in a skill can have a big impact on how to play the class. For example: your former melee bleed stagging skill now has a icy slow effect that staggs on the target, because your secondary is now mage. So instead of DoT dmg your opponent has trouble to flee from you and can't kite you so good anymore. This small change will effect your whole playstyle and the possibilities. But yes I fully agree, a lot of skills should change dramatically to mean something by changing your secondary or your equipment.

[@hasumoto1707]

Alright, sorry for the wall of text :D Augments: I hoped that you can choose between multiple options for one skill. Let's say you are mage as secondary class and you can decide is does this skill now do different damage like: frost, fire or lightning damange and a status effect like freeze/slow, burn or stun/shatter. Something like that. I would be cool with it, if it's sometimes a smaller change. Like that. On the other hand, I think a few skills should change dramatically. Like If you are a Mage/Rogue, that the chain lightning now can be changes into melee, but with a CC effect or something idk. Like change the skill to a totally different way it is. As seen in the fighter showcase with Maim. So instead of melee, you have the possibility to change it to effect ranged targets as well. Does this needs to be for everything? I think for a few it would be cool, but for some I'm just happy with that "color change". Ultimate: I think some sort of an 'ultimate' in PVP and PVE can be awesome. When you think about Guild Wars 1+2 the 'Elite skill' or Warhammer Online the 'Morale Ability' or League of Legends the 'ultimate ability'. Even in World of Warcraft, when you skilled to the very bottom of your skill tree to get the awesome skill that is and feels unique to your skill tree. It feels cool, to use it as a finisher or a save skill or a "we're going in! in 3..2..1.. pop the ultimate and CHAAAARGE!" So I'm on Jamies side here 100%. Respec secondary: I hope it's kinda like, that you have to do questlines for unlocking each different secondary class. Kinda like introducing the player to that class. Idk, maybe you have to track down a massive wild beast by it's foot prints and stuff. Then you have to fight or even calm down it to unlock ranger. Or you have to collect different mystic materials to summon a spirit at a totem or shrine to become a summoner. That spirit is then your first summoner companion. Something like that. But: when you then respec into a secondary, that you already unlocked previously, then you simply go to a NPC in the next node and spend a small amount of glint. That's what I would preferer. One cool and kinda epic questline for each secondary, but if you already unlocked it, then you can easy reskill your character by talking with a NPC. Only to spend a few coins to unlock it, without a questline doesn't feel cool to me. The RPG aspect would be missing here. This isn't a small aspect since we're playing a fantasy game. It need to feel heroic in some ways. Also you might not need every single secondary, but some. Like: some secondary's might not appealing to you or are simply not efficient for your class/build/roll. So you might do this quests only for 1 to 3 instead of all 8. (Meta) builds: Steven already said: there will not be a meta build like "this one fits all". He also said, that we often might respec for a specific situation. And you know what? I love it! The very most played WOW, so I'm gonna use this as an example here. Yes, there are a lot of "meta" builds. But sometimes you might slightly change that for your own playstyle, because it suits you and your playstyle much better. Sometimes there are builds only for PVP or only for PVE. Solo farm builds, Raid builds, small group builds (where you might fill 2 rolls - amplifier and healer for example or tank and interrupter), ... I really hope we, as community, explore a wide verities of cool and crazy builds for each class. I mean, we are not limited by armor or weapons... so a melee dagger mage/fighter in mid armor is possible. Or a 2hand smite cleric/tank in heavy armor. Or a spell casting bard with wand and shield... yep, you already have some crazy ideas to test I bet. Why I think we will see crazy stuff? Here are some examples: ESO --> You can have a lighting casting, 2hand sword swinging, teleporting, heavy armor PVP killing machine. (Not sure, if this is still a thing, but it was). Guild Wars 1 --> There once was a Elementalist/Assasin build where you teleport to enemy players, knock them down and burst them to death in a very short amount of time with lightning damage. Or (very old school) a warrior team with pets and a necromancer to reanimate the dead pets if they died (they changed that in game later on) I'm totally on Jamies side here 100%. There are build guides on YT or guide sites that makes you slightly better. BUT: If you enjoy a specific home brew build, and it works for you and your team - use it! Example: "But marksman is the meta!" - "I don't care man. My beastmaster build makes nearly as much damage as the marksman, but I have this advantage of having a good pet. And I like that." and later during the raid "you are a beastmaster! How can you do more damage than the Meta build guy?" "Well, I have experience and know how to play my build very well" - we all know situations like that, especially after patches, seasons or expansion releases. And let me say this: I tanked the shit out of stuff in classic era with a paladin! I even took over warrior tank threat in raids. That's not even close when it comes to meta. What I want to say is: if you are good in the class and build you're using, you can make it work. I had a WL, a frost mage and a priest with me and they only wanted me as a tank. All because I don't wanted to play a paladin healer xD and people said: "yeah, but then play warrior instead of paladin!" and I refused to do that. PVP/PVE/PVX: I love open world PVP. I love big fights like raid vs raid. I also love running around in a small group or solo and do PVP. Cities as "save zones" is kinda good imo. People don't get the difference between good PVP and griefing and ganking. A lot of people only know PVP from WOW and while leveling they got ganked by higher level players a lot. But some might played Warhammer online, where the core mechanic is PVP - especially open world PVP. And that is a lot of fun, especially when you're low level (because you got a boost for PVP). But don't get me wrong here. I also like good dungeons and raids or good questlines/stories. For example: if you guys ever played the SWTOR story line for your class, you may agree with me here (they are all awesome). Or you guys might remember when you first killed a big hard boss or even cleared a raid with your guild - that felt satisfying AF. But for the PVP play: you can have the same feeling, when you beat a zerg of players with a way smaller group because you outplayed them with tactics or you were simply better then them. Or you were at an open world boss and suddenly got attacked by other players. But somehow you where able to defeat the players and then you killed the boss too - that is a so damn good feeling. And another thing you might not thought about: Bots. Wasn't it simply frustrating for you as much as for me, seeing bots from your faction running around in zones, killing, looting or mining the stuff you needed? Wasn't you thinking like "Fuck em! If I could, I would wipe these bots!". And in Ashes: "There's no faction that hold me back here! The bots drop their looted materials! So I don't have to loot that by myself! Hell yeah! I might get red corruption, but I don't care, because Fuck those bots! I hate bots!" P2W: Exactly Jamie! Every fucking time a game went from good to cash shop with P2W it's dead. Some games lunched with P2W (Diablo Immortal as an example here), stayed for like 2weeks and then it was dead. Tank: Can we please all agree, that the name "Tank" for a class is bad and lazy naming? I think "Juggernaut" could be a good name. Because of that "unstoppable force" and "hard to kill" that the name brings with it. Or maybe "Hulk" or another name idk - just some ideas that came to my mind. But "Tank" is a roll definition, not a good name for a class imo. Why I don't agree with "Vanguard" is not because it's a 'group of people' in most definitions, but because you are not forced to be a frond liner as a tank in Ashes. "Wait whaaaaat?" Yes, you can wear whatever the F you want! So you can also be a range tank like the shieldtec in SWTOR or the Guardian with wand and shield in GW2 if you want to. And this can actually make sense, because we already know, that you might be able to convert some melee to ranged and some ranged to melee attacks. So imagen you tank on ranged a boss, that makes high AoE damage around him (like an aura or stomps or whatever) and you as a tank outsmart that mechanic by tanking ranged - buffing yourself, shoot and taunt the boss.

[@hellstocker7707]

Love it bruh, always a good listen

[@barrywhite1770]

Love the idea that instanced things don’t give player power rewards.

[@Mezcon2]

OMG, THANK YOU!!! If you want a PVE server, go f'ing play WoW, Rift, LOTRO, any other game out there. Ashes is doing PVX for the first time in my memory since the old old days of MMO's and its so refreshing. Thank you for making that point!

[@nicubota3320]

pvx is perfect idk why ppl ar so against like i am prety sure becose pk protection and system u will not see ppl pk left and right

[@Arthur-1337]

I really hope they give us a couple non-magic options for pure fighter/rogue/hunter. People who like spells can always augment, but imo the base Archetype should just be non magical.

[@keyboardoracle1044]

What about you could vanish after doing lay of hands? With rogues augment.

[@jinglyjones1677]

I feel the Windows pain. Ubuntu mate! It's solid. I don't know how people still put up with Windows in the current day (then dual boot for gaming, ez enough).

[@Mayhem_uXa]

Vanguard is a group - let it go :) Semper Fi

[@DanteSyx]

Another great one Jamie Kaos 🙌🏾

[@raspernor11]

What's wrong with the class "Knight"?

[@TangentsofCreation]

It's a personal thing for me, nothing wrong with it, I just prefer being an antihero and Knight feels too regal lol

[@LiamAlt-c3k]

please dont waste beathe telling me about corruption system, mortal, and fracturred online both had these and they dont wok

[@TangentsofCreation]

Hey you know what's great! You have so many other MMOs to play that don't have open world PvP!

[@LiamAlt-c3k]

@@TangentsofCreation im a pvper, tying to show why other pvp games failed but u guys arre sooo defensive u put up a barrrier

[@LiamAlt-c3k]

I want ashes to succeed soooo badly, however, it is obvious it wont. Just look at morrtal online2, factured online, and moe recently, throne and liberty. The majority of peaople dont want to group up to do mining or cut trees, but will be forced to because of the loser 10lvls higher who thinks they atre awesome because they killed you while you werre doing something else and were 10 lvls below. Everryone will quit bar the sweaty players.

[@TangentsofCreation]

Luckily you have a ton of PvE based MMOs you can go enjoy, free of that icky open world PvP and scary sweats!

[@LiamAlt-c3k]

@@TangentsofCreation I love pvp, i am tying to show what happens to pvx games if not approached carefully, why is everyone so defensive? i am pro ashes

[@TangentsofCreation]

@@LiamAlt-c3k when was I being defensive?

[@LiamAlt-c3k]

@@TangentsofCreation passive aggrressively u and someone else say luckily u have lots of pve games to go play, as if ashes is perfect and needs no feedback...

[@TangentsofCreation]

@@LiamAlt-c3k that's not what I said, you already said it obviously won't succeed and I told you it's a good thing there are games you can go to for the things you dislike about the game. Not once did I say it was perfect and didn't need feedback. I'd rather them try and fail instead of cater to players who don't want to be social. We can start at mo2, game has lazy unresponsive devs and no anti grief mechanics. Fractured online was terrible day one with all of its annoying survival mechanics. Throne and Liberty is a giant mobile game and overall is boring as fuck. None of that has to do with open world PvP.