Ultrasonic horn - measuring vibration amplitude

I was able to measure the peak-to-peak displacement of my ultrasonic horn: about 20 microns, which is pretty reasonable, and in the right ballpark when compared with commercial horns. For more info see bottom of my main page at imajeenyus.com/...

[@joeteejoetee]

I'd just like to add that you can drive the Piezo with a DC voltage and it will precisely move via growing or shrinking, depending on polarity. I think you have measured larger deflections when it is AC resonating due to inertia and elastic effects. I mention using DC for positioning your optical experiments because it far easier to accurately change the size of the Piezo element with a DC power supply say +/- 10 V and varying 100-1000th of a volt) than the finest (and bulky) micrometer. You can make _repeatable_ Sub-Micron movements via a 20Turn Pot + voltmeter, or even an Arduino DAC output! Bonus: It will draw nil DC current = will not heat up and drift, AND you don't need the horn element at all. P.S. Thanks for the Resonant Horn video!

[@matteorossi5128]

compliments for the precision of your measurements!

[@andrewphillip8432]

A jfet pre amp mounted really close to the ball bearing might be able get the impedance to a readable level for the oscilloscope, similar to a condenser microphone capsule. This method apparently works pretty well though too. Love the giant micrometer head, now I want one!

[@BluesDoctor]

Hey Lindsey, great video and problem solving skills. look forward to see what you come up with for FO sensor to monitor amplitude. Very practical idea.

[@NickMoore]

That's a clever little hack, very cool!

[@imajeenyus42]

Thanks! Wait till you see the next one ;-) (Sez he, hoping it'll work....)

[@NickMoore]

I am curious how an optical sensor would work with such small deflection. Some kind of razor blade/pin point focused laser maybe?

[@imajeenyus42]

I had a think about various options - the trouble with edge-based things is diffraction; it would doubtless give a detectable signal, but alignment might be tricky. I was almost on the point of delving into a doppler velocimeter sort of thing, but my current approach is a reflective fiber-optic sensor. Apparently these things are quite sensitive (here's one manufacturer - www.philtec.com/downloadssupport/documentlibrary/dspecs.html). I've made up something using 0.5mm plastic fibers, we'll see how it goes!

[@NickMoore]

Oh! Yeah, that might do it. Can't wait!

[@joseliu3413]

Is it possible to just measure the driving voltage of the transducer? I mean when the transducer strikes the ball, the piezoelectric rings will also produce a voltage, which might be superimposed on the driving voltage. So if the driving voltage really changed in some degree, it may help us to find out the critical distance under which the change no longer occur and that should be equal to the amplitude of the transducer.

[@serwan4]

Hello , I have an ultrasonic homogenizer toption 1800E horn type , I bough it one year ago . Now it doesn't work and fail to produced ultrasonic wave ... Can the problem the horn metal

[@AN-kg4ei]

Great video - very basic question for testing off shelf ultrasonic driver board if you might entertain an answer... Can a load such as a bulb or shunt be connected to the transducer output to see if its working correctly? I do have a scope and meters but curious why/why not the output stage wouldn't drive a bulb?? Tryinv to repair one and eliminate transducers as failure point. Thanks!

[@imajeenyus42]

Thanks! Unfortunately, it would likely not do anything, and may damage the driver. Most cheap drivers (e.g. the boards you get inside ultrasonic cleaners, or those sold on eBay/AliExpress as a set including a transducer) rely on the transducer's capacitance to form a resonant circuit with the output inductor in the driver. A bulb or shunt will be a purely resistive load, won't create a resonant circuit, and therefore won't cause the driver to oscillate correctly (if at all). The safest way is to just run a transducer. To save having to hold it somehow, submerge a sponge in some water in a shallow dish, and sit the transducer face-down on it. That'll give a typical cleaning transducer enough of a load to operate.

[@3metrosarequipa57]

Hello Lindasay, i could close the PLL loop for the CD4046. i ve been following your job a long! kind regards

[@cadizbedini]

Hey Lindsay, nice experimental setup dude! One question though: how do you know you can assume that the horn is stopping exactly at its midpoint every time you switch off the power supply? I would expect that the resting position could vary somewhat depending on the phase of the amplitude at the time you switch it off. This could be a source of the scatter in your measured amplitude...

[@fernandoivancastillo4713]

Lolo Beid Im quite new to this subject, but since it is a piezoelectric transducer, once the power supply is turned off, we wouldnt have any deformation in the quartz, so no contraction nor expansion, thus midpoint at rest 🤷‍♂️

[@zaprodk]

Wow, that ultrasound really messes with the microphone on the camera. How about hearing damage on these frequencies? Should you wear hearing protection - i would think so ...

[@imajeenyus42]

Hah, so it does! I hadn't actually watched the video, just uploaded it - thanks for mentioning that. I wonder how much was actual sound, and how much was electrostatic pickup through me, when I was adjusting the controls etc. Either way it probably would be best to wear earmuffs - lots of the sonicators I've seen actually have a little padded box to operate in.

[@AppliedScience]

The interference is interesting. I can hear the sound change when you are physically moving the camera -- probably due to doppler shifting in combination with aliasing of the ultrasound. Also, I really like your setup for measuring the displacement! I didn't think it was (relatively) so large.

[@joseliu3413]

It is a great video. It would be better if you can add some subtitles for it.

[@cediemacalisang7713]

Hi, I'm doing research on the application of ultrasonic in chemical reaction, which will involve surmounting an ultrasonic horn in a vessel. I wish to know what brand your are using and the diamater & length of the ultrasonic horn you were using. Thank you.

[@MilanKarakas]

Very educational video.

[@imajeenyus42]

Thanks! It's a tricky subject ;-)

[@MilanKarakas]

Maybe, but you presented it in beautiful way. I will have not a dream how to measure physical amplitude. You did it very clever way. I learned something new, so yes - it is educational video to me.

[@imajeenyus42]

One of the endless unfinished things I've been working on is a fiber-optic displacement sensor that should let me measure the vibration much more accurately, maybe even to 10nm or so. I made a quick prototype probe and it _seems_ to work pretty well.

[@bonafide154]

Hello, I saw a few of your videos on youtube and thought i give it a shot and reach out to you. i can send you a 3d rendering of my lint remover to see more of what i am talking about if need be! I put a few vibrator or erm motors in my prototype and is definitely helps performance but then we took the philips sonmic care toothbrush and this even more helped performance. I was wondering if you could guide me on how to get the sonic vibration i need and if preferably if i could just borrow like 10 minutes from you to get on a phone call to perhaps guide me on how to get that desired sonic vibration i need! The erm motors are more so rotary motors and this then has to translate into a liner movement on my razor blades, but i know that if i use at least a 3.7 volt (rated voltage) sonic motor and somehow add some magnetic pressure or a magnetic bar, this would be more so a magnetic motor and since the motor is already moving in a linear direction it would more efficiently transmit the mechanical energy to the blades in the desired back and forth (side to side) motion as opposed to going from a rotary force from the motor, which would give me more vibrations per minute, which would increase performance! I think that all these things that i need can be sourced by my chinese manufacturer and they would just plug it in the handle and that would be it I really hope i am making sense, becasue as you can see i desperately can use the help and i will pay you for your time if you decide to have a quick call as i am very bad at explaining these kind of things over writing as English is also my second language Although a motor that moves more so side to side versus in a rotary fashion, would be most efficient in the oscialltion effect i need in my application! Hope to hear back from you and please fell free to call me if you like anytime that is good for you and i will definately pay you for your time no problem at all as it would be so worht it to relieve a lot of this stress Sincerely Eldar-

[@muhammadshafiqmatshayuti1086]

cool! does anyone know where i can find that inverter? been searching everywhere

[@imajeenyus42]

I designed and built the inverter. Please read the video description for a link to my webpage.

[@mikedioguardo6184]

Awesome videos! I have been researching ultrasonic transducers the past few weeks. I was curious to find out if making a DIY ultrasonic soldering iron was feasible. Purchased a cheap 60w transducer + driver board for ultrasonic cleaners from ebay to experiment with and having my friend machine a horn for it on his lathe. The most basic 40w to 100w Ultrasonic irons cost several thousands, but all seem very simple in construction and operation. From what I understand, inorder to ultrasonically bond solder onto otherwise non-solderable materials, you just need to vibrate the puddle of molten solder, not so much the whole iron tip. Your thoughts? - Mike :)

[@imajeenyus42]

Thanks, glad you like them! Ultrasonic soldering is definitely possible, and doesn't actually require that much power. I played with it briefly a while back - have a look at this clip: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXq4pmatadRprrM. The "iron" is a bit of threaded rod screwed into the end of an extension horn, and I'm heating the whole thing with a torch. It coated the aluminium very well, and other things could then be soldered to it. BTW - it's essential to use plain solder, NOT flux-cored stuff, because the ultrasound will emulsify the solder and flux and create a gooey mess. You're right, as long as you have ultrasonic vibrations present in the molten solder, you'll get a cleaning action. So you can either vibrate a soldering iron tip, or (if you wanted to say tin wires instead) you could vibrate a small cup of molten solder. Part of the trick with a soldering iron is to get good heat transfer between the heater and tip, yet still allow the tip to vibrate. Regarding your driver, I'm a little bit apprehensive of trying to use an ultrasonic cleaner driver. These sort of drivers are very basic, and assume that the transducer is attached to a cleaning tank, which broadens out the resonance, so the frequency doesn't have to be adjusted as carefully. They rarely work reliably with a highly resonant load like a bare transducer + horn. However, given the low power level required for soldering (I only needed 5W or so!), you should stand a chance.

[@mikedioguardo6184]

thats awesome! i actually wanted to make the iron for the main purpose of aluminum soldering. And yes I didnt really have much faith in the stock driver and planned to make my own. The stock driver appears to be a very crude ZVS oscillator, similar to those found on tesla coil and induction heater drivers. Heres a link to the kit im using: www.ebay.com/itm/271838338185?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[@imajeenyus42]

Yup, that looks like the usual sort of circuit! There's actually a schematic for a similar driver here: hackaday.io/project/4689-improve-the-haber-process/log/16986-analysis-of-the-ebay-ultrasonic-power-supply (most of the Chinese-made drivers will use the same basic circuit). These work by placing an inductor in series with the transducer, and it forms a series resonant LC circuit with the static capacitance of the transducer. A little current transformer is used to generate feedback for the transistor bases, so it's self-oscillating. However, the resonant frequency of the LC circuit is not near the true mechanical resonance, so it only works well when the mechanical resonance is strongly damped (like on a cleaning tank). There are other "matching networks" used besides the LC, but it's still something I only have a hazy understanding of. I need to spend some time and investigate them!

[@joseliu3413]

Is it possible to use the signal generator as the signal source and then employ a power amplifier to magnify the signal so that it is sufficient to drive the transducer? You know the amplitude of the output voltage of the signal generator is not enough. By the way, you can try to use a laser vibrometer to measure how the amplitude changes with the frequency.

[@imajeenyus42]

Absolutely. Indeed, I have a audio power amplifier which I sometimes use with my signal generator to power transducers, when I need to use a sinewave waveform. Make sure that the amplifier has sufficient bandwidth - mine does up to 100kHz. Regarding a laser vibrometer, I wish! I actually used one at university quite a lot for measuring piezoceramic transducers, but they're way out of my price range. I have some ideas for a fiber-optic displacement sensors which I might pursue.

[@MuhammadSaleem-sd8ng]

How can we check horn ? No crake seen on horn

[@imajeenyus42]

Check how? I don't know what you mean.

[@MuhammadSaleem-sd8ng]

@@imajeenyus42 how to recheck ultrasonic horn ?

[@mattharvey8712]

Bravo.......piezoelectric pickup.......maybe mount another horn on the other end ........and us is like a microphone or signal generator ....cheers

[@imajeenyus42]

Anything attached to the horn will change its resonant characteristics. I am measuring the vibrational amplitude of the bare horn, so do not want to attach anything to it.

[@mattharvey8712]

@@imajeenyus42 hey......I'm guessing .......radar .......speed gun.......on steroids......cheers

[@imajeenyus42]

@@mattharvey8712 Keep guessing.

[@alanalan9990]

hi lindsay ,i was wondering , would a be possibble to make diy ultrasonic welding machine? could you give me some information please i am base in edinburgh dalry road, fabric revelation

[@imajeenyus42]

At the power levels you'd be looking at, say 300-500W, it really isn't practical to attempt making a DIY machine. The transducer, horn, driver, frequency tracking etc., it's all better left to a commercial unit.

[@alanalan9990]

@@imajeenyus42 thanks for replying do you mind I can you give you my numbers you can explain me on the phone please. There is machine on ebay thinking to buy them .not sure is suitable for to weld face mask

[@imajeenyus42]

@@alanalan9990 Sorry, I really don't have any experience of what would be suitable for fabric welding applications.

[@alanalan9990]

No worries thanks

[@alanalan9990]

I have just downloaded horn . Ta systems horn Edinburgh

[@alanalan9990]

hi lindsay i did speak while ago i have bought this power unit dont know how it works TA Systems TA-40ECS Ultrasonic Plastic Welder Welding Head Converter 40kHz

[@imajeenyus42]

Looks like that's just the transducer - unfortunately no use without a matching driver.

[@alanalan9990]

@@imajeenyus42 hi lindsay what else I need I have horn thanks

[@alanalan9990]

Try to send you pictures what I have got

[@alanalan9990]

I have downloaded power unit to have a look please

[@alanalan9990]

@@imajeenyus42 what is matching driver, what does it look like?can you send me some links please

[@ttkoh123]

Won't it be easier to use a eddy current probe?

[@imajeenyus42]

Possibly, but 1) I ain't got one, 2) they're expensive, 3) one with a suitable bandwidth is really expensive! I'll keep it in mind, but at the moment I'm experimenting with a fiber-optic reflection sensor, which shows promise.

[@ttkoh123]

thanks good, clear videos you have there and I enjoyed it. Maybe in your next video, you can demonstrate some experimental application example pvc welding, ultrasonic cleaning etc.. I like to know the wattage limitation, practical limitation and maybe selection and even failures are OK :-)

[@imajeenyus42]

Thanks. I originally made it for doing ultrasonic drilling in ceramic - there's some photos here: imajeenyus.com/workshop/20110516_ultrasonic_drilling/index.shtml. I also tried ultrasonic soldering a while ago as well - little tricky to do. I screwed a threaded rod into the end of the extension horn and used that as a "soldering iron", and heated the whole lot with a small gas flame. Worked quite well on aluminium, and from what I remember, only needed 10W or so of power. Here's a rather crappy video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXq4pmatadRprrM

[@muhammadamin3394]

Price?

[@imajeenyus42]

For what?

[@sritech20]

is this LVDT ?

[@imajeenyus42]

Try watching the video first before asking silly questions.

[@sritech20]

@@imajeenyus42 I asked is this a LVDT measurement technique for the displacement and amplitude variation?

[@imajeenyus42]

@@sritech20 If you actually took the trouble to watch the video and read my accompanying web page, you would see that the answer to your question is clearly NO.