Ultrasonic like a pro

[@307.William]

I live my Vevor one. Fit my price range a couple yrs ago when I stumbled across your channel. Bought it and it keeps going

[@vitalbikechains]

Thanks for putting all this info together. Although I’m only doing 10-15 chains a week, you’ve given me a lot to look at with my ultrasonic efficiency.

[@stephencharles6932]

Those 'want to do list ' reviews seem exciting, look forward to seeing the results.

[@CatManDoSocial]

Thanks as always, Adam. That was very interesting information. This actually served to help me realize that I don't need an ultrasonic cleaner for personal use, even though I want one. Immersive waxing my SRAM Eagle chains has been so effective that even after a year of MTB in mixed conditions, the chains show no perceptible wear with a chain checker. So, as cool as they are, I would probably only use an ultrasonic cleaner once every couple of years. Instead of getting one, I think once I'm out of my current terps and spirits, I'll just get my new chains from you from then on. Have a great weekend!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

yes correct - only the most avid of race prep really have a "need" for an ultrasonic - the rest is really for fun tinker time. Extremely good results can be attained just via normal maintenance methods, and if one is immersive waxing - the call for one is just not really there. You dont need it for initial prep, you dont need it for maintenance - so really it is just for fun. I think overall they are a bit oversold re what they will do for people, and a number of videos lead a bit astray re you just bung in cleaner, bung in chain press a button, and magic. Not quite so really there is a bit to know to get the best out of them, and to get a better result vs just container (or, in waxers case, mostly we just re wax and yeehaa).

[@CatManDoSocial]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks, Adam!

[@wsbygt]

I can´t go by without mine! Time consuming routine before I bought one.

[@stephencharles6932]

Very understandable variants with candle wax - I liken it to the amazingly unpredictable world of commercial 'honey'!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

very correct! honestly its been a test i have not wanted to waste time on but the DIY wax crowd has been quite vociferous over the years - so insert big sigh - i must get it done, but i sure would rather be tackling other items on the list. But at the end of the day once its done its done and i can hopefully move on. It wont stop the emails of "have you tested / can you test my beeswax + lanolin + xylene + PTFE + ws2 blend" as well as any combination of anything DIY you have ever heard of, but i can at least cross this off the list and refer enquiries to that.

[@hinrichaue7199]

apparently you can improve the efficiency of water as transfer medium by reducing surface tension. So adding dish washing detergent might help.

[@hardmtnbiker]

Have you ever considered blasting a chain clean with a power washer or steam washer? I recently tried my power washer, on my chain, obviously after I removed it and secured on a plank. I also removed my cassette and did the same. This was on my mountain bike after several muddy rides and reapplied Finish Line Dry. I have been a user of Silca Secret on my gravel bike chain but had never used wax on my Mtn bikes. After learning more about chain lube from your channel I realized that wax would work well on my mountain bikes, so I started with my SS Mtn bike. It was great and easily wiped clean and reapplied Silca Wax chain lube. I determined that I had all the right stuff to give it a try on my geared Mtn bike and why not. So I power washed the chain and did the rest of the prep cleaning except for that ultrasonic. The chain was completely clean to wipe down with white microfiber towels after denatured alcohol soak. Honestly I don’t know why I have never considered using on my mountain bike’s except for the fact that people without ever trying it are saying it’s wrong or too complicated. I’ve been a long time user of Finishline Dry applied in between ever ride but my expensive KMC get clapped out in about 1 year max. I ride a lot but have a few bikes so my mileage on each bike varies. The gravel bike gets the most mileage since I do a Century every month and choice for my longer distances. The Mtn bike less but get dirty with lots of stream crossing. Anyway, thanks for your analysis and deep dive into bike maintenance.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey there - steam would be a more time consuming faffy way vs hot water baths if trying to melt off wax. Pressure washer - it will get rid of surface stuff but it will again be a faff if trying to cleain oil lubes deep inside and wax doesnt dissolve with water so if bonded deep inside chain it wont do anything to that. Post mud rides i do jet wash bike and chain but then boiling water baths to melt off worst of contaminated wax, dry, wax pot. And yes A LOT of misconception re waxing especially in mtb demographic, but that is changing. slowly slowly logic is breaking down very incorrect myths. Offroad waxing gives much more benefit even than road riders as that is the perfect environment to have all parts inside chain coated in a super slippery SOLID lubricant, and there is no easier way to reset chain post harsh conditions vs immersive wax. How people thinks solvent flush cleans are easier makes no sense, and if they just add more lube, they pay for it with very high wear and friction - which is hardly optimal and very expensive on a lot of groupsets these days. If an LBS says a bunch of crap about immersive waxing, they should not be trusted with much....

[@TorHovland]

Very interesting video! I wanted to do some aluminium foil testing myself, and got reasonable results with water, de-gassed water, and citrus degreaser. Then I tried Morgan Blue Chain Cleaner, and nothing happened. Not even after de-gassing. So ultrasonic should not be effective with it, correct? Well, I put a somewhat dirty chain in it, and as soon as I turned on the ultrasonic, large amounts of black dirt flowed out of the chain. So what was going on with the aluminium test?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

yep same happens with solvents like mineral turpentine that also have very low ultrasonic cavitation. If the solvent itself is working on breaking down what needs to be cleaned - then when ultrasonic is turned on - the high frequency vibration will look like its ultrasonic action. So it will still clean, just mostly by vibration, not cavitation. Cavitation is actual ultrasonic cleaning action and is MUCH stronger than vibration. This is why the foil test exists - to see if there is actual ultrasonic cleaning going on, or just vibration.

[@glennmorgan8691]

Very interesting vid Adam thank you!!! I got the us cleaner that josh(silca)recommended dk-600s for about $300.00 cad.Its a 6liter uc with 180 w power,300 w heater,degas mode,semi wave(25khz),full wave(40khz).I fill uc with hot water and wait till its 65c,put chains in 1liter pyrex measuring cup with mineral spirits,do a 10min degas,10min semi wave,20min full wave.Should I skip the 10min semi wave and do a 30min full wave cycle instead?After watching your vid I'm going to switch out the mineral spirits for silca chain striper,should I still give the chain a soak in denatured alcohol(methyl hydrate)or just give it a swish in the hot us water?I've been putting the silca hot melt sous bag into the us untill it melts and do a 10min cycle on full wave and you can see the darker(tungsten disulfied)swirling to the top of the bag,Josh says this really drives the tungsten disulfied into the chain!Sorry for all the questions but your the man Adam!!! Cheers!!!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey glenn - depends a bit what you are using for - what lubricant / chains are you doing the above on? However at guess if you are US cleaning frequently - vs stripper which i think is going to be great for initial prep with factory grease - if this is regular maintenance i would get a Ultrasonic solution for either grease / oil or wax depending on what using. That will much cheaper than using stripper for maintenance, and a fresh batch each time, and best cavitation / scrubbing.

[@2up4down]

Thank you for the useful information!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

**Apologies major computer issues today, it crashed twice and a couple vids showing close up of the more powerful ultrasonic with specific solution, as well as ultrasonic wax - have not exported into main vid. FFS. However you can pause and have a look at the main pick showing all test strips. In short - US with wax was better than expected - direct in tank, 80dg, and 10 mins degas. The strips in the specific cleaning solution in the elma were pretty ripped apart - specific cleaners will do the most powerful US clean action.

[@VeloSansFin]

Hi Adam, For DYI waxing, what additives would you suggest? Not able to get PTFE and Molybdenum Disulphide. Are there other alternatives or should I stick to plain wax like before?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Most of the fancy waxes these days are using WS2 / tungsten disulphide. IF you can re wax frequently (and or two chains on rotation is often a great way to roll) you wont need additives as you wont notice any speed difference, it is mosly the top commercial waxes will typically have a noticeable treatment longevity advantage - this is not all due to additives however they are actually a blend of waxes just high grade paraffin is the main part of the base. If you can simply ride to the treatment longevity of a good paraffin base, personally i wouldnt bother with the cost of additives. You will never detect if its X bit faster, nor will it be likely a little ws2 on its own delivers a big jump in treatment longevity - but many like to play with such for fun

[@VeloSansFin]

Thank you @@zerofrictioncycling992 That makes sense. I am rotating chains and will stick with plain wax. This additive stuff was eating away my brain since I couldn't get hold of them in my country and was worried about not getting the most of the waxing. Thank you for explaining this.

[@industryrule-4080]

27:04 Maybe I missed it, but in your discussion of degassing, your slide page 2 says to run the ultrasonic for 10 minutes “without anything in it”. Maybe you could have clarified that as without any parts? Or did you mean without any parts or liquid solutions?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey Terence - yes that means without any parts in it. I dont think many will consider this means without liquid as then there would be nothing to degas. I think i explained that the ultrasonic works by cavitation / imploding bubbles, and that when one pours solution / solvent in, this traps air like a bubbler works in a fish tank so the fish have oxygen to breathe. If there is gas trapped in the solution, this fills the imploding bubbles, no ultrasonic scrubbing - so degassing the solution is needed for ultrasonic scrubbing to be at its most effective. If there is no solution in there, there is nothing to degas.

[@kcornish]

Can you sit the chain in the ultra sonic cleaner without the wire basket? And just cover the chain in cleaning solution or wax?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

No sitting directly on the tank there is a) poor caviation there and b) may damage transducers. Must be raised off bottom in the basket.

[@86309]

Good stuff, but im going to use my just purchased ultra sonic + heater to hot melt wax my chains, Ill use a separate few jars for solvent cleaning of the chains for initial degrease, then just boiling water for resetting once I've waxed them and need to do another hot wax treatment. Have you tried using a heated Ultra sonic tank for wax application? is it better than just crock pot waxing?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Yes ultrasonic waxing is done for race prep chains, something really pioneered by Friction facts and carried over with a number of companies that offer full race optimised prep. However, there is no tangible data on how much better a US wax (done properly) is over simply a good swishing. It could be a fraction of a watt, it could be a tiny fraction of a watt. I tend to recommend only to those who want to cover every base to make fastest possible race chains. For training chains, you could never, ever, ever assess a tangible difference so it is just a lot more time and faff to do for something you cannot notice vs just using a slow cooker - but, also generall no harm - albeit people can get a WORSE wax if using low power ultrasonic vs swishing as the modifiers will settle mostly to the bottom of wax leading to a poor distribution of friction modifiers through the wax going onto chain. For US waxing, you need a pretty powerful US, and you will want to (without aerating), give wax a thorough mixing before waxing to ensure full and even distribution. > Get wax up to temp. > Without basket in use stick blender for about 10 secs - taking care not to allow it aerate (use deep in wax) > Degas for 10 mins > Stick blender taking care not to allow it aerate (use deep in wax) > Ultrasonic wax 5 mins.

[@86309]

thank you so much for your time and answer!@@zerofrictioncycling992

[@86309]

Degas? meaning chain in wax and bubbles coming up? So if I get the wax up to temp in the US, then stir with stick to distribute/mix melted wax with no chain, then put chain in basket and dont turn on the US , put chain in for 10, use stick again , then turn US on max US setting for 5 min? turn off heater, let wax come down in temp to a skin just forming on surface and slowly take the chain out to cool@@zerofrictioncycling992

[@frenzalrhomb1]

Thanks again matey awesome stuff👍

[@robertmcfadyen9156]

My ultrasonic cleaning tasks were handled in a covid safe mannner during the pandemic . Most work was from the food delivery industry during this time .

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

what does that even mean Robert? Are your comment inputs set to random?!

[@blambmtb6189]

I just got the 3L Vevor from Amazon. Should I return it and get the smaller one for chains ?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

sorry for delay i missed this one - doing a catch up sweep! wont help now but nah the 3l is groovy - mine is 1.8l internal (why do ultrasonic seem to measure volume externally?! )

[@VeloSansFin]

hi Adam, For a newbie would you say the following sequence would work? 1. turpentine run - 2 nos - ultrasonic directly in tank 2. is0-propyl - 1 no - ultrasonic directly in tank 3. waxing in pot I have been doing just plain waxing so far

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

If this is for new chain prep - will depend a little on how much solvent per chain. I do in batches of 4 so its 250ml per chain - this takes 3 turps baths for most, 5 for sram chains etc, and then 2 x alcohol. If just doing one chain in bath so 1 litre per chain, then you are likely to only need 1 bath per chain as there is enough solvent to soak up the fact grease. However as demonstrated ultrasonic power in turps is low, so you will want a good bit of run time. Dry chain between turps bath and iso bath, and dry chain before waxing (hairdryer makes quick work)

[@VeloSansFin]

Thank you @@zerofrictioncycling992 . waiting for my ultrasonic to be delivered. Will try this out next week. Exciting times ahead 🙂

[@DDP73]

Does the depth of solution in the US effect the energy from the transducers on the bottom?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

The ultrasonics are designed to propagate cavitation with the solution filled to the line in the tank. Under filling will harm cavitation (and can make it less even throughout the solution - profession services that rely on perfect ultrasonic such as sterilizing medical equip perform regular tests with strip suspended in a grid inside tank to ensure even cavitation throughout - cheaper ultrasonics have a clear power zone in center and low power on the perimeter - something i ran out of time to cover - will do in future). Under filling can also damage the transducers - this is more likely when one has purchased a larger tank so they can do chain rings, mtb cassettes etc - and so will only fill the lower couple cm when doing a chain (GCN vid had this, and with chain sitting on bottom of the tank!! very low cavitation there, and high risk of damaging transducers). Hence on should by tank of the right size to fill to marked line in the tank - that is how it is designed to work.

[@justinfournier1285]

I tried the new Silca chainstripper and wax prep and basically it sucked. I used 2x the amount suggested for 6 factory chains (170ml) and it was black after a 15min heated degass. It took 5 more rounds of mineral spirits till the chain was clean, then 2 more of methanol to get the factory KMC 9 speed chain clean. So nearly identical to a regular process I would do except Exponentially more expensive and no time savings.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

thanks for the info justin - yeah i havent looked properly yet at claimed amount per chain - was that 170ml for 6 factory grease chains? that seems not much for a lot of chains. I know with UFO clean they claim some pretty impressive amount that it can soak up, and yes it will go black as it is soaking up grease - but they advised this doesnt mean it isnt prepping as needed - the test really will be in does the wax adhere. I will try to get to control test soon ish....

[@justinfournier1285]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 I used 2x 170ml as that volume was necessary to provide sufficient coverage in my USC. However after removing the chain and putting it in another bath of just mineral spirits, your equivalent to mineral turps, the liquid was still black after a 15m full power run so I changed and started another run till it came out clean. The wax may have adhered to the chain after the first cleaning, but I’m not gonna leave that much black in the liquid as obviously the chain isn’t completely clean.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@justinfournier1285 Yes indeed - it is a risky move to pop a chain with potentially a lot of black stuff in it into ones wax pot for fear of contaminating wax let alone poor adherence. Have you written to silca to discuss? If you do let me know what customer services response is - my belief is that new fancy products with fancy claims should have the requisite support if customer experience is not matching - and they should be aware of customer feedback / experience like yours as it may be needed to adjust instructions / claims.

[@justinfournier1285]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 No, I didn’t contact them. I also bought a HX-One home essentials kit that has a poor job of coating on the keys so I need to write an email but have not had the time.

[@justinfournier1285]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 I got a reply from Silca: “Hello Justin, The solution has not turned black in any of our testing. That is telling us you have a dirty chain or there is dirt being introduced somewhere. You can keep cleaning the chain and use a coffee filter to help filter it out if you would like to. You just need to keep cleaning the chain until it is clean.” It was a new KMC chain taken off a new bike that came out of a box maybe 48 hours before, it was not ridden and I’ve never seen a factory clean chain not make the fluid black. I did one example of the same chain off another example ofthe same bike using regular mineral spirits and that chain was clean in 3 mineral spirits bath and it was very clear on the second methanol bath so 2 shaken in a container, one 30m heated bath degassed in USC, then 2 heated methanol. I should add Ive done 4 Sram Eagle XX1 chains this summer that came from the plastic box and all made my fluid black. So either I’m doing something very wrong or Silca is doing something very different from me.

[@bobowsinski1704]

I’m unclear on wash bike with a hot wax coating. Will just a light spray of water from hose strip wax and is it enough to wash off dust and any mud that may have splashed on. I wash bike after every few rides. Based on the grit on my legs I expect some grit on the chain and cassette/drive train. Thanks

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey bob, water wont wash wax off, but re waxing a wet chain can seem to impact the re wax. You dont want most bike wash cleaning products to get on chain as they may contaminated wax and impact next re wax adherence - so treat similar re anything you dont want getting on braking surface, you dont want getting on chain. It is best to wipe dry dust off chain with microfiber cloth sprayed with some alcohol - this prevents you bringing that dust into wax pot. Unless it has been muddy - personally i also clean bikes by spraying cloth and wiping frame. I have never really understood watering ones bike with a hose to remove some dust. If i do need to hit bike with water and i am going to re wax and water is going to get on chain, then i either remove chain and pop in wax pot, or i know i am going to dry chain before putting in wax pot.

[@bobowsinski1704]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for the detailed response. I grew up around cars. Had a few classics as well. Washing them with plenty of water prevents the dirt from scratching the paint as I was taught. So I took that to my bike. I use a light spray on the drive train. I was hoping as you mentioned it will not wash off. I re-waxed hot waxed after 300 km first time to be safe. Silca recommends using their drip wax between hot waxing. Is that necessary or helpful at all. Thanks. Ps boating friends of mine use wax around leaking windows and leave on to seal them. They say it works well. Also when I re-waxed I stripped the chain down again , in case any oils left, and dried in dehydrator I use on my scales models when painting. Hoping that will be as dry and clean as possible. Next time I will just use hot water to clean then dry in dehydrator again.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@bobowsinski1704 ah yes indeed proper car washing one does typically hose off first! and i think if one is perhaps very particular re bike paint this may be the case too - but often people going enthusiastic with hoses can over time get water into things and places that its just better not too. I also always re coat my frame quickly in main areas that see the main elements with a ceramic coating (or a wax coating - same as people wax car paint - this is very protective, less dust sticks, and makes wiping very safe vs hosing). yes if planning to re wax circa 300km most do not need to top up in between. Drip wax with say ss drip in between re waxes is usually to take the pressure of some re waxing, they might use multiple times and then just re wax every circa 1000km etc to re set. IF one is planning on just waxing (like me, and most who buy immersive wax), you dont need to top up at all - there is plenty of wax and long lasting wax to go circa 300km easily unless conditions are very harsh. And yes one could i suppose use for that. but i would not rate its adherence long term to things like window sills as something assured - i would just silicone sealer from hardware store, that is what they use to seal windows initially, and it is made for that job....... it will likely be a safer bet for that purpose for much longer than paraffin wax base with slippery friction modifiers...

[@mikeski7ify]

Hi! What do you think of 37kHz instead of 25kHz when it comes to cleaning?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

37 to 40khz is most common by far, and seems to work perfectly fine for most solutions and parts. I believe the less viscous the solution, the lower the khz is beneficial. For solutions with a similar viscosity to water - 37 to 40 is likely perfectly groovy.

[@robinseibel7540]

MSW recommends heating wax to 200°F, but I see other sources and users recommending heating waxes to 180°F or 190°F. Have you tested submersion waxing performance on chains as a function of the max temp of the wax when the chain is submerged? Do you have a recommendation on this point?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey robin - honestly for hot melt waxing where you are swishing in pot, anywhere from basically 70dg c and 100 dg c is perfect - with the official recommended temp basically 90dg c. But as long as wax is melted and high enough viscosity for a good swishing, then all is grand, i would not be worried at all re if my wax is 85c or 95c or 80c and so on - you will rewax perfectly. If one is looking to ultrasonic wax - most ultrasonics heating does not go above 80dg c as that is really about the max effective temperature for ultrasonic cleaning solutions. Above that temp their is a sufficient decline in ultrasonic cavitation. You dont want to wax to be really under that temp though either as you want the wax to err on higher viscosity vs lower, as lower viscosity will again dent ultrasonic power. So for ultrasonic waxing, just having as close to the max 80dg c in the US is generally going to be best. Best practice for us waxing; > Heat in pot first is generally faster and more even. Blitz with a blender stick (but not aerating) for max friction modifier distribution > decant into ultrasonic and set temp to 80dg c and degas run 10 mins. > Blitz with stick blender briefly and ensure not aerating. > insert basket with chain and US for 5 mins. > remove, blitz again, decant back to normal pot, wipe US clean / + clean with boiling water if using for other uses.

[@robinseibel7540]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 , thanks! I do the waxing in a small crock pot, and the ultrasonic cleaner is really only used for the cleaning of a new chain (with a diluted solution of Simple Green made for aircraft, i.e. Simple Green Extreme) and some parts washing.

[@tombardy3813]

Hello I’ve not gotten into waxing yet but I thought of doing it DIY with soy wax, wasn’t sure if that’s a good idea or not @zero friction cycling

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

no idea either sorry - soy impurity in cheap wax / candle wax makes it slow / gunky vs refined paraffin - im not sure what the draw would be to soy vs something proven like food grade paraffin.

[@peibol24]

It would be quite interesting to see a battle between Silca chain stripper (they claim it's the best of the best, I claim it's megaexpensive) and UFO drivetrain cleaner, which you claim 100ml of it removes factory grease off of 5 chains (if I remember well). Edit: 10 min into the video and I see you got this in your list of tasks 😂😂 Eagerly waiting for these tests 👍

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

For sure me too - the control test will actually take a bit of resources as to put claims to the test each product 100ml is going to need to do multiple chains and see how the wax bonds so it is going to be circa 3 to 5 chains per product to be done. I am going to try to get to this one asap.

[@Dirty_Jester]

be aware with vevor. Mine is not strong enough to heat the water. I wrote to them and they said I should have the osioliation on. But took hours to heat it up even then, and u need to reset the timer every 25min. So it sucks!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

cool thanks for reporting experience, i will pull mine out to check heating time - but........ i have never used any ultrasonics heating like that. I boil a kettle, and mix in 2/3rd boiling, 1/3rd normal water to get circa 60dg water, add ultrasonic solution - set temp to 65dg c, run degas, for 10, then US cleaning run. Sweet. For those who are doing ultrasonic waxing, again heating waxing in pot first may be easier - it is not unusual - especially with budget brands - for the heating power of the ultrasonic to be comparatively low / slow. And most will only have circa 30 minute timers- thats pretty normal as well. My vevor will keep heat on tho if i just turn it on and set the temp - i have done that before and come back a few days later having forgot to find all the water evaporated and heat still on.....

[@hannahjm93]

So glad I found your site! As a new 'indoor cyclist' I was loosing my mind trying to find what to use on my chain. I had bought a drip on wax but didn't really feel like it was doing what it claimed and your tests confirmed my suspicions. I've decided to go with Mspeedwax new formula. Currently gathering together all the supplies! I did want to ask though, as I'm riding indoors only so virtually no contaminants, less vibration etc than outdoor riding, also the fact I'm a lighter rider so naturally doing less watts than your tests (current FTP170); do you think in those circumstances I could re-wax at longer intervals like 600km or even the 800km MSW claims for dry road conditions?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Good morning Hannah - indoor trainer kms vs outdoor is actually a little harder to estimate. If you ride a lot of "base aerobic" sessions (z2 etc) then kms on indoor will be still a bit shorter than expected outdoors as you dont have any rolling kms normally. Ie on a hills ride i might do X watts for 30 mins to climb a hill, but then i have 10 mins basically rolling getting circa 10km for no pedalling. After 30 mins climbing on zwift, i dont get 10 mins of free DH km's - i am pedalling all the time. Some also mostly use indoor trainer for HIIT sessions only / mostly - and so those km's are harder on ones lubricant lifespan vs outdoor. But the lower the power the longer treatments will last for sure. How long you get you will get to know over time - when chain starts to sound and feel really dry - it will become not that pleasurable to ride when coating is too thin - then its time to re wax and get it back to silky smooth zone. Note that most actually find waxing for indoor only is a bit of a faff as the excess wax will all gather under traininer / stick to trainer vs just blowing away like it does outdoors - so whilst waxing is the cleanest drivetrain for outdoor cycling, it is more messy maintenance indoors! For indoor you may want to look at a long lasting wax lube like smoove, or ceramic speed now have an indoor specific wax lube - or some will go to a long lasting wet lubricant like silca synergetic or rex black diamond as contamination is not really a concern re making wet lubricant abrasive - it will run black like all wet lubes but you dont need to apply very much for a very long stint of very low friction very low wear protection. I am of course a very avid waxer for all my bikes EXCEPT my indoor bike due to the wax flakes build up. Hope that helps!

[@hannahjm93]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed response! When you say the chain will sound and feel dry, will it be obvious? As a non-experienced cyclist should I be able to tell when the chain is sounding dry vs normal chain noise?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@hannahjm93 For most people yes it is very obvious - but everyones sensitivity is different. It is a pretty distinctive "zzzz, zzzz, zzzz" sound on pedal stroke when wax layer is getting thin. Myself and some waxing friends who i ride with are pretty sensitive and dislike the dry sound / feel and so have always erred on re waxing early. However every now and then i catch up with a friend, or im racing one of the racers on wax - man i can hear their chain from 10 riders back - i will ask them when the heck did you last re wax and they be like "oh? you think it is due?" - i have no idea how they cant tell as its driving cyclists around them mad chain is so loud - basically starting to squeak, let alone riding it themselves. So whilst some people dont notice anything more subtle than being hit by a bus, i would say that is very much a minority indeed, the majority find it is very obvious and easy to tell. It will be exciting to see which category you fall into hahahaha! :)

[@DDP73]

You said (paraphrasing) US with wax stripper for maintenance. This should completely strip wax from inside the chain leaving it fresh to rewax? If the directions from wax say to reapply every 500k, you would strip the chain rather than quick swirl in boiling water every 500k? we're talking daily driver, not a race chain.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Daily driver you should just re wax, unless it is a full wet ride, in which case in most times boiling water flush rinses, dry, re wax. I have never bothered with US cleaning my training chain (however i also have 2 pot system for my mtb chains / gravel / cx that see full mud - 2 pot system for chains that see a lot of dust and mud is the fastest cheapest way of keeping everything awesome - refer 1hr 39 min mark of waxing FAQ vid - episode 7). But yes if one wishes to do a near perfect reset post mud - boiling water flush rinses to remove bulk of contamination, whilst doing that - degas wax US solution (and it should be at circ 65 to 70dg c). 10 min run post degas. Boiling water flush rinses post US clean, and for me - i would still always do an alcohol bath to ensure no film left - so dry post rinse, then alcohol bath. This is a fair bit of time for training chain. Hence two pot system like a boss is just way better for training chains. A full reset like above is normally the reserve of dedicated race chains where you do not want to bring any contamination into your dedicated race chain wax pot. You can also use UFO drivetrain clean in place of US wax cleaner as that will also work on waxes, and that does not need an alcohol rinse as it has a bonding agent as part of it so post boiling water rinse after US clean - dry, wax.

[@craighisted8027]

Not related to the video, but get shot of the widows laptop dude, never heard my Mac trying to take off from the desk…my previous windows OS machines eventually all sounded like a jet. I’ve only recently moved to Mac.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

ha yeah i know honestly something has happened - its been great for years (pretty flash alienware gaming laptop so has lotsa power) - but started yesterday just working at 100% doin nothin - i will have to get my super IT lady to have a look. It completely froze twice yest and had to restore film edit from back ups - was a friggin disaster, and then on export a couple of clips didnt come across - and it took soooo long i just cant faff to re try atm - this thing is barely working - maybe something has snuck in and its making it mine bitcoin or something!!! yest arvo did not quite run smoothly.... sorry for background noise. It still going flat out now with just this window open.

[@lukasgeukens4822]

why not use IKEA glimma theelight wax test. It is probably the most consistent world wide.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

refer vid on candle wax test re diy wax testing

[@3ATGL]

Why would you even consider testing "candle wax" ? So much variability in "candle wax".

[@tombardy3813]

That’s what I’m thinking too because you can buy candle soy wax

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

peer group pressure :). Over the years there have just been many requests to test candle wax as comparison to commercial waxes (and food grade wax). I dont think the DIY demographic is actually that large, but they are the most vociferous.

[@davidnickson7034]

Why not just test the Gulf wax then at least the product can be replicated?@@zerofrictioncycling992

[@JMJM75257]

So they invest in a diversified fashion. They aren't knowledgeable in bicycles they simply saw good business opportunities and have bought up prominent brands to rake in cash. Asking as.they let each individual company maintain their identity that's all that matters for the end consumer.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Sorry i forgot much of other details in this vid now, who / what part are you referring too?

[@zaoralj]

Use mac ;-)

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

thats what my IT lady keeps telling me hahahahaha