[UNBANNED] A SCANDALOUS Theory about Horowitz's peculiar Piano Playing Technique

[@666dorian]

I learnt from a teacher who learnt from Horowitz’s sister. Tension, co contraction at its most extreme, and very low wrists were the mandate. The outcome? A number of students developing dystonia.

[@alanfraser2948]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Many of Leon Fleisher's students also developed dystonias.

[@666dorian]

@@alanfraser2948 that doesn't really surprise me, although it is sad. When it comes to the titans (Horowitz, Richter, Gould etc) I love them as much as the next person, but idolising them beyond first analysis is not a good idea if you, yourself are a training pianist.

[@666dorian]

No, @@santorinischnabel Romanovsky learnt from Magarius (who taught at the same school in Kharkov years ago). My teacher was Makarov. As I understand, Magarius and Makarov were pretty much enemies. Makarov in any case was an over-hyped simpleton who has spent the last 15 years in jail. He did, though, have a number of very, very good students.

[@jonb4020]

@@alanfraser2948 A little knowledge? How do you know the poster has "a little knowledge"? How much of his knowledge do you expect him/her to write in a KZbin comment in order to make a single point?

[@alanfraser2948]

I'm not talking about Dennis, whose knowledge is vast and admirable! I'm talking about the people who developed a dystonia because they didn't know what they were doing.

[@donaldallen1771]

I played the Horowitz piano when Franz Mohr toured with it in 1990 (the piano by then was own by Steinway), the year after Horowitz's death. What Denis Zhdanov says about the action is absolutely true. I have never played a piano with an action that light (I started lessons when I was 5; I'm 81 now, so I've been doing this for a while with some wonderful teachers, including Martin Canin and Mme. Rosina Lhevinne). I have also never played a piano voiced so brightly. It sounded like the hammers were glass. That muscular sound that Horowitz made in the bass? I made the same sound. It was the piano, not him, not me. Interestingly, I played the F-major Etude (10/8) in my session with his piano. At the time, I could not get through the piece on my own piano, a Mason and Hamlin BB, because of tension in my own technique that I have worked to eliminate over the years (I still have that same piano and at 81, I can play that Etude at a respectable tempo without tiring). But even with my deficient technique at the time, I easily got through it on the Horowitz piano. The action was so light I described the keys to others as switches, on or off. I had a very difficult time controlling the dynamics with such an action. It is incredible to me that Horowitz was able to draw such colors from a piano set up this way. I played the Horowitz piano again in 2003. Steinway had completely redone the action and voicing, turning it into an ordinary Model D and in the process, destroyed a historical document. I don't understand what possessed them to do this.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Interesting! What a fantastic opportunity you had! Thank you for sharing.

[@sharky_spike]

🥺

[@timfoster2881]

I’ve both played the Chopin F major Etude here and I’m a piano technician. I believe Horowitz’s piano had a 45g down-weight and 30g up-weight. Most people could not even control an action this light. Additionally, the high upweight meant the key virtually sticks to the fingers on the way up. Additionally, very bright voicing gives the feeling of an even lighter action. So yes, I’m not a fan of his technique, but his piano was conditioned to accommodate his style very well in a way that I doubt any other piano could without thorough action adjustment.

[@biljanamilakovic2661]

But at the end of the story it is all about the talent, the will and the immagination. Exploringn the ideas all the time in real time and not playing like a robot. Nobody can teach you that, it is internal and intimate realtaion between the piece and the performer. Techique is emerging thing but not the extrrnal tool.

[@biljanamilakovic2661]

The music, the sound, comes out from something and not the oposite. We can not study the mind od the performer, still all the magic comes from there.

[@gailrodgers4434]

Vladimir Horowitz was my neighbor on the Upper East Side in Manhattan back in the day. One time, a friend and I were pushing our bikes up 5th Avenue near Central Park and saw Horowitz sitting on a park bench with his wife and another woman, (Horowitz was always friendly, his wife not so much.) I can't remember how we got on the subject, but knowing we both played piano, he said the brakes on the bicycle was bad for your hands, as you had to squeeze and stretch them too much, and he held his hands up to demonstrate. I've never seen anyone's hands look like that; my whole hand would have fit in his palm. They were just so unusual, very long and thin fingers which you can't really see when they're on the keyboard. Maybe he used a different technique because his hands were so different. In this case, the ends justify the means as he certainly got the job done, one way or the other.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Great story! You had a nice neighborhood I’d say🙂

[@kahito1234567]

Thanks for the story. It’s nice to hear personal moments with the greats. I’ve always been jealous of his hands. Mine are very different, short fingers and a huge palm. But my grandmother was a top notch pianist with the tiniest but also strongest hands ever so who am I to complain. 😂

[@amptrascope]

@@gailrodgers4434 your analogy for me is spot on. His hand size as well as his physical make up, allowed him to do things in a way other pianist could not.

[@7James77]

He has very long fingers. Its possible he learned to play that way with no tension.

[@DaveRx]

I love Horowitz above all other pianists, but I have no problem admitting that some of his interpretations are very problematic and that in some respects his technique was not the best. But what the heck! That miraculous sonority, from the most tender poetry to the most fiendishly electrifying crash chords, leaves most of his fellow pianists looking tame and bland. Excellent video, very revealing and extremely interesting.

[@alanfraser2948]

Actually his technique was indeed the best - you have to figure out how to understand it.

[@MJE112358132134]

Does it bother you that sometimes those fiendishly electrifying crash chords were actually not written in the scores he played, but added by Horowitz himself? That bothers me enormously, especially when he does it not just once in a special moment, but time after time within the same piece. You admit that some of his interpretation are very problematic, but what the heck? That to me is very bothersome, as the interpretations can sometimes distort the music considerably away from what is written in the score. I think I prefer tame, bland pianists who can give an expressive performance of a piece while staying true to what the composer actually wrote. I remember having a debate of sorts on such matters with someone in KZbin comments somewhere, and I happened to comment that I liked Ruth Laredo's performance of Scriabin's piano sonatas above all others, and the response was that it was too tame and bland (words to that effect, anyway - I forget the exact way it was worded). But to me, an accurate performance that still manages to be expressive is to me far more exciting than a self-indulgent performance that willfully makes alterations whenever the performer feels like it, often in the form of adding crashing chords that the composer did not write as chords, and in general makes the performance about the peformer himself rather than the composer and his music.

[@Persun_McPersonson]

@@alanfraser2948 Nonsense. Playing with tension is bad technique.

[@alanfraser2948]

of course playing with tension is bad technique, but playing with a certain elasticity is good technique, and you need to be able to tell the difference!

[@Florestan1207]

​@@MJE112358132134As Mahler is supposed to have said: ”Das Beste in der Musik steht nicht in den Noten.” Horowitz had a keen eye and ear for what was not written in the score, and if he (like so many renowned pianists) reversed the dynamics on occasions it was because he thought what was written didn’t work with the overall conception of the phrase or work.

[@avantpianist6636]

It’s interesting to see how bench position affects how one perceives the piano keys. Once I went to a friend’s house to play his piano, and we both thought that piano was heavy. A few weeks after and I visited again. I found myself playing effortlessly on that piano. We spent a long time thinking about what has been changed. I asked if he had regulated his piano. The truth was that he just heightened his bench a bit, and that made a world of difference.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Yeah! Same thing for me!

[@pghagen]

Thank you for your explanation Denis! I read three biographies about Horowitz. In the Plaskin biography Horowitz explains he could not play some of the Chopin etudes on modern pianos, as their touch was too heavy. Besides that Horowitz had large hands with long thin fingers. Indeed he had long periodes he did not perform in public, and used drugs on doctors advice. However I was very surprised to watch him playing pieces like Etincelles by Moszkofski very fluently, as well as soirees the Vienna by Liszt. So on his old age he still had this wonderful technique. Indeed his piano keys were modified to 44 grams. And that helps a lot too. After Horowitz' death his wife Wanda did send his piano around the world and it landed in a piano shop in Amsterdam, and I was able to play on it. Indeed the touch was very light but I had to get accustomed to it...But he still remains one of my favourite pianists, along with Cherkassky and De Larrocha.

[@keithhill9901]

You perhaps don't realize that Horowitz's piano was voiced in a manner that imitates fortepianos from around 1830. He had the hammers replaced every year during which the hammer heads were ground down to the smallest size possible consistent with a reliable repetition. You will notice when watching videos of him playing his piano in concert that the keys bobble when suddenly released. This indicates that the weight of the hammer heads are barely able to guarantee a snappy return of the key. Under this set up in the action, he never had to fight the weight of the keys to depress them. The slightest touch of the fingers on the key will produce a mezzoforte so when playing softly the hands, fingers, and arm had to function reliably when totally relaxed. This is how the Fortepianos have to be played. Any forcing of the muscles will cause them to misfire by being too loud. His technique was predicated on playing a softly as possible consistent with his interpretation, You will also notice that he rarely plays FFF and when he does that FFF only appears to sound FFF because the light hammers are also very bright sounding, which means he hardly has to work at all to generate strong differences in volume because he relys on how the human ear adapts to whatever volume is first heard and everything heard thereafter sounds either louder or softer by comparison. He was supposed to quantify a minimum of 29 levels of touch. His interpretations are best understood by reading The Craft of. Musical Communication at themusiciansstudio.com to understand the cantabile style of playing prevalent throughout Europe and the US before 1940.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Yes I do realize that, and this doesn’t contradict to anything I’ve said. I have not criticized his cantabile or any other interpretational choices, by accentuating a few times throughout the video that I admire him as an artist, having concerns solely about technical approach from the positions of a life-long sustainability, but people apparently are not able to comprehend that there are more options to attitude and research on people then a 100% worshipping or 100% hatred😂

[@ancapcitorw5162]

​@@DenZhdanovPianist What you don't get is that it is posible to play with low wrists and without tension. I mean, I play like that and don't feel any stress on my fingers after finishing playing. So, you just sit there, try to play the etude and, as you haven't practiced it in that position or whatever, you come to the rash conclusion that that position creates tension. But I say, if you weren't so suggestible, you could sit there and play it without tension. Tension is more a matter of internally feeling free. You can play without tension even with flat fingers and low wrists. Tension is a thing of starting playing and you don't realize that your wrist hurts. The moment you realize it, you can just release that tension and that's about it.

[@Gerjay]

I felt like the Scarlatti sounded better in your first run-through using 'Horowitz' technique than when you did it with your usual technique. There's something to be said about inefficient technique leading to more interesting sounds, because once everything is 'perfect' it quickly becomes boring. Great video, I did agree with just about everything else you said.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

That’s an interesting point. Similarly, I like watching older fancy cars, however prefer to drive Tesla lol

[@lynnchan2259]

I had similar impression that the finger-only Scarlatti sounded better. Generally, I find playing with fingers-only on a modern piano produces a smaller tonal range, and using more of the body produces bigger range of tonal color. For Scalatti I'm used to hearing a small and even tonal range without huge dynamic changes, and has the impression of sound & tonal range of early pianofortes/keyboards. That said, of course, it's not worth injury. (But personally, even as an amateur, I stay away from Scarlatti.)

[@SiliPiano]

​@DenZhdanovPianist This is exactly the difference in mindset between old-style men and modern men. Old and "romantic" people prioritise aesthetics over everything. To these people it doesn't matter that the old cars may be way more dangerous, because the aesthetic of how it looks and feels is more important. Same thing with Horowitz's piano playing. Same thing with Michelangeli, he always looks clean and professional and his clarity in piano playing is the most imprtant aesthetic to him.

[@magicmulder]

Same. :)

[@HeinzLengersdorfPianist]

Yes I agree, the Scarlatti of Mr. Horowitz is much better, than both examples of Mr. Zhdanov … no strong evidence of his theories… I want to add that I could imagine Horowitz would be very unlucky use his Tokyo 83 Concert for such a Video

[@Aaalllyyysssaaaaa]

My violin teacher in university was a completely natural player, he just intuitively understood how to move. But he didn't really understand how to explain how to move. It was tough learning from him lolol. I was the same way a bit. I grew up just understanding how to play freely, but for me, later in life when I started hitting the limits of when my intuition just wasn't enough, I started having to have a more intentional approach to movement. I think intuitive players who are really really talented can completely master the instrument without hitting those walls. But when something changes internally, like physical or mental health, and you start thinking about the instrument differently, sometimes those people have to go through a relearning process where everything they did intuitively has to start happening intentionally. I think that's why teaching can help your playing a lot, it forces you into that thought process early. To me, that tense recording where he was struggling was just him having a learning moment that most of us mortals encounter a whole lot earlier haha, and he had to go "why the heck isn't this easy."

[@bertmay9277]

The most insightful comments on Horovitz I have seen so far! I always wondered about Horovitz‘ peculiar style of playing. Now I begin to understand what he was doing and why it is not a good idea at all to try to copy him. Thank you for your explanations and demonstrations!

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Radiatoron88]

As far as technique, probably not a great idea to try to copy Horowitz, but as far as his musical conceptions, what I wouldn't give to be able to render as Horowitz did any number of pieces that I love. The range of sound, the tonal beauty, the vocal quality. And an overall piano sound that, in my listening experience of 50-some years, was utterly unique. I was only able to attend one recital of Horowitz's, and that was at Orchestra Hall in Chicago in either the late 1970s or very early 1980s--I forget the exact year. It was in a sense a bad recital for Horowitz since there were lots of missed notes and big memory lapses. But I've never heard a piano sound like that in my life--his sonority was staggering and so orchestral. John Browning once said in an interview that he felt that Horowitz had gone beyond the piano. In any case, although I agree with Mr. Zhdanov that Horowitz's physical approach to the piano was not a healthy one that we should try to emulate, when it comes to the musical results that Horowitz achieved, I'm all for trying to emulate him. If only that were so easy!

[@cadriver2570]

For piano mechanics, I look to Marc Andre Hamelin. Easily one of the very best players ever from a mechanical perspective.

[@johnschlesinger2009]

Listen to Josef Hofmann in his prime, and to Rachmaninoff.

[@cadriver2570]

@@johnschlesinger2009 not much video of theirs to watch. I’ve heard all the recordings.

[@chrysanthemumfan214]

@@johnschlesinger2009 "In his prime"? Just like Horowitz in his prime? Why the loss of the heights of playing when Hofmann was older?

[@alanfraser2948]

I studied with Marc-Andre's teacher, who had intriguing insights into Horowitz's technique

[@666dorian]

@@alanfraser2948 elaborate please!

[@doreenernst9832]

Excellent video! I am without a teacher and so, in order to try and improve my technique, I watch recordings of professional classical concert artists. I was taught to keep my wrists and arms essentially level with the keyboard, hand and fingers in a naturally curved, relaxed position. Nothing should be rigidly held in position, but rather should have freedom and thus ease of movement - a flowing type movement. Horowitz often used flat fingers and/or very curled fingers which visually reminded me of a spider. I tried to imitate his position and technique but found I lost control of my touch. It was also fatiguing as I felt tension in my fingers and throughout my arms in order to maintain such a position - ultimately, when fatigue started to set in, I discovered that I was lifting my shoulders in order to continue in the same manner. I also noted that Horowitz did not keep his fingers & hands close to the keys. I find that by staying close to the keys, I don't have to cover as much distance from one key to the next, jumps are not as far, my playing is smoother, and legato is not as difficult. I also find that a relaxed, close to the keyboard position diminishes my anxiety over accuracy. It's a more enjoyable experience overall. Horowitz also appeared to have hunched over the keyboard at times. Such a position for me leads to a tired back and thus when I start to become uncomfortable, I have to fight myself to continue. I have concluded that Horowitz's technique does not work at all well for me. I use to believe that it was because my hands, arms and so on developed in accordance with how I was taught to use them and thus due to my limitations, I was unable to benefit from Horowitz's technique. After watching your vid I am now of the opinion that Horowitz's technique was not the best and so I now have more confidence in myself. I am glad you have decided to unban this video. Thank you so much!

[@josephfleetwood3882]

If you watch the video of his Mozart A major concerto in Milan, 1987, you can see that he has what looks to me like dystonia by then. His fourth and fifth finger are curled in and he has to really push to throw them out in order to use them. Regarding his breaks from playing, I've always suspected repetitive strain injury was a factor in this, and was probably a factor in his need for pain killers. His technique was very much based on an old-fashioned school of playing as described by Czerny for example. There are bits of that school which are good and bits that are not so good as you highlight here. The light action of the pianos could just be that he preferred that, and if you consider that old Blüthners and Bechsteins, and possibly old Berdux pianos in Russia had a much shallower key dip even than today, that technique isn't going to be *as much* of a problem as it is on the New York Steinway of the mid-20th Century. This is probably why his piano was so modified. The other thing as you will know Denis, that in conservatoires for the longest time, technique was regarded as something that just happens in order to serve the music. I was very very lucky in that my first teacher studied with Tobias Matthay, so I had a finished technique before going to conservatoire. However, at the conservatoire, later the teachers kept misquoting Matthay at me saying "Matthay said it doesn't matter whether you play the key with your finger or a pencil". Well, in the context they were mis-using that quote it showed an alarming ignorance as to what he was actually trying to say. Looking back and watching videos of professors from the conservatories I attended (Royal College of Music and Royal Conservatoire of Scotland) I do see varying versions of inefficient technique. Teachers are very scared to even touch on the subject of technique using the tag line that the study of technique can make playing too mechanical. I disagree. Look at ballet dancers for example. If Nureyev is Horowitz, Baryshnikov is Argerich

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Thanks for a profound comment, I do value Matthay’s books much

[@SaiChooMusic]

With the 5th finger curled in in particular, there are a couple of things I recall. One was likely from a biography of his and Horowitz said that nobody taught him how to do that and he learned it himself. Then there was a reproduction of an Etude magazine article on an old Horowitz fan website with photographs and Horowitz teaching the 5th finger curled in thing. He was a pretty young man then, likely around the time when that slow motion video of him was filmed.

[@josephfleetwood3882]

@@SaiChooMusic In fact I do think I remember Josef Hoffman saying that curling the fifth finger back was a good thing to stabilize the hand in playing. He felt it helped maintain the bridge of the other fingers. I will have to look this up though because I could be misquoting him. I personally don't advocate for this. I think the fingers should all be rested on the keys with a relaxed arm. Hoffman and Horowitz learned before we really fully understood repetitive strain injuries. In fact, Tobias Matthay who advocated for a relaxed technique plus a rotary motion to aid finger work, was ostracized by his colleagues for suggesting what they believed to be something so ridiculous. Chopin too believed similar to Matthay but his ideas were never published, at least not until relatively recently. Now, those teachers who teach more ergonomic principles of technique quote Matthay and Chopin all the time citing them as good sources on the topic. None of what I'm saying takes away from Horowitz the artist, who still stands as one of the most incredible pianists of any generation.

[@SaiChooMusic]

@@josephfleetwood3882 Yeah I couldn't recall if it was Lhevinne or Hoffman who spoke about the curled 5th finger, I suspect it was Hoffman.

[@clydejennings7049]

If Baryshnikov were… Argerich reminds me too much of Michelangeli, fast, subtle,light-fingered and colorless. But a pianist that can produce the power, color, clean sonority? Novaes? Sudbin? And to notice that, less than two years before his death he had what “looked like” focal dystonia was a laugh. First, you can find hundreds of videos where H. Curls his right pinky when not in use, and dozens of videos where he also curls the index finger. When a pianist is 84 and been playing at a professional level for 65+ years, there is arthritis, ligament and tendon wear, and even bone reshaping. As for your guess about the “real” reason for his withdrawals from the stage, you contradict his widow, manager, confidants. This qualifies you to be a Kardashian fan.

[@ElinaAkselrud]

This is a really important video. Thank you for making it!

[@chadlawsonpiano]

This is so great. Love this. Thank you for ALL of your amazing videos.

[@raphaelhudson]

Its very interesting. When you play with the low arm position you dont like, it does give you a cleaner and more exiting attack, honestly sounds better for the two pieces you demonstrated, but onviously it could sound weird with something more lyrical. Gould also sat very low but i dont see him being so static with his arms. Anyway its an interesting thing that across instruments the superstars often have unique techniques that seem inefficient or like they should not work. That is possibly because human appreciation of beauty is not a study in efficiency. The most efficienct sound is a midi keyboard playing exactly what is written, but there is nothing more boring and souless than that. The other thing is, in terms of injuries, a lot or it is to do with genetic variation in anatomy. Overuse injuries often happen not because of overuse itself but due to the nerve and arm structures inducing injury and tension that cannot heal in time for the next use. Nerves tend tend to shorten with age as structures become more rigid and kyphosis increases. But some people are lucky enough to have less genetic tendency for this and wider nerve tunnels and so can handle far more load with less injury. You see with singers for instance that many of the most famous singers of the 40s-70s were linked to Melocchi who taught basically the opposite of what all modern speech pathologists advocate. Again he advocated a static tension type technique . And indeed many of his students ruined their voices, but the ones that survived excelled and are considered best of all time. .

[@davidlevy3092]

The great Cuban pianist Jorge Bolet advised his students to sit as low as they practically could. He also used flat fingers in lyrical music when he wanted a certain sound. My own last teacher, the late David Bradshaw, was an exponent of Lechtititsky's method. He said that sitting lower enables one to play accurately with less practice, which is otherwise difficult. He told me that I produced a much better sound when I sat lower. Bradshaw said the only thing sitting higher makes easier is playing louder, which is the easiest thing to do anyway. So, since most of us don't have 30 hours a day in which to practice, why not do what makes the difficult easier? But I have also thought about this, and I think for a huge work like the Brahms 2nd Concerto, a higher sitting position would make a lot of sense, as long as one's hands remained as close to the keys as possible. I also found that sitting lower made it easier for me to use weight, and to voice chords, and I got less fatigued. It's a difficult and controversial question, complicated by the fact that we are all physically shaped a bit differently.

[@privateprivate22]

I agree . I remember his concert in 1986 in Leningrad when I was shocked by his hand position, by his maybe pianistically imperfections, pedaling in Mozart. My reaction was that I spent my life for nothing by studying in the most respected music schools. It was the greatest experience in my life( Im visiting Carnegie quite often). It takes a genius to overstep boundaries , rules, physical laws and to achieve such an effect on audience

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Yes, his charisma is astounding

[@coachinetto]

Thank you, I love how you explain everything, and watching you demonstrating what you are talking about is so helpful! I love Horowitz, and your analysis reveals how powerful his musical instincts and mechanical gifts were, in spite of his limited understanding of physically safe playing.

[@StrivetobeDust]

Very interesting. Glenn Gould also sat very low and with elbows below the keyboard. He was known for using hot wet towels on his forearms before performances. It would be interesting to see a comparison of his technique to that of Horowitz and Lang Lang.

[@chrysanthemumfan214]

I'd love to see an analysis of Lang Lang's "before and after" the break he took. To see what he did. His Goldberg Variations are incredible.

[@pianissimist]

Jose Iturbi also sat low.

[@back-seat-driver1355]

@@chrysanthemumfan214 Lang Lang had to cancel a concert here because of tendinitis in his arms!!! I hate his theatrically appearance and especially his face while playing anyway - doesn't seem very relaxed!

[@pianopat]

I have always thought that he had some form of focal dystonia in the second half of his career. He clearly was not in command of his 4th and 5th fingers, which tended to curl under his hands, could only play octaves with completely flat fingers, which compromised hugely the accuracy, and clearly was extremely limited in the repertoire he actually could play, which if you observe, is very carefully chosen, and even then the technical accuracy was limited. The other person in which you can observe similar problems is Paul Badura Skoda.

[@stephenkahler3484]

I heard from my teacher in LA in the 80s that VH was missing notes because of medication, and the problem cleared up in his last few years’ concerts and recordings.

[@stephenkahler3484]

As for sitting low: he said he learned that from his sister, who told him that you see the keys better when you are closer.

[@JonFairhurst]

This might also explain why he tends to hunch forward as he plays. Not only does his playing technique risk injury, so does his posture. Blues players and rockers don’t worry about technicalities. He was a rock and roller at heart, who happened to play classical piano. 😀

[@doublevision5465]

The Horowitz way @11:30 sounds better; more alive, more dynamic, more articulate. You sounded like a sloppy version of Horowitz for a moment. Bad for your hand, you're saying. Good to my ear, I'm saying. The proper, biomechanically correct, efficient way sounds flat, muted/muffled, and boring, i.e., less alive, less dynamic, less articulate. While it's better for your hand, it's generic & uninteresting for my ear. Perhaps you could not hear it because you were more focused on the effort. Note that Horowitz's hands were more developed than yours (he literally had thicker meat in his palms and you could even see development underneath his fingers between the joints), his fingertips naturally curved upward (which created an illusion of straighter fingers), and he played on a customized piano with a lighter action and shallower keys. Your piano makes Horowitz's way more difficult. I think he also practiced pieces/passages very slowly to get it into his muscle memory first before toying with it. I think it's also why he could play faster than other people who often want to play faster sooner (and get through more material in less time.) The shapes of his wrists, hands, & fingers were always changing as he would slap, stroke, walk, & run through the keys. His hands didn't just play the piano. His hands played on the piano. Slow motion videos of his hands look like slow motion videos of animals moving. For a bigger sound without tiring, he dropped his weight into the keys rather than solely rely on his arm/hand strength (which is something that other pianists already did.) And his softer pianissimos made his fortissimos sound that much greater. He used his body purposefully not emotively and he minimized elbow movement for efficiency. His movements were dedicated to generating & projecting music rather than indulging in self-absorption. Another thing I like about Horowitz's playing is that he didn't ride on the damper pedal like a surfboard. He wasn't arbitrary with the pedals. He actually put thought into using the pedals. There was more artistry to his use and non-use of the pedals than people realize or discuss.

[@NN-rn1oz]

Very good advice on building a technique that can be sustained even when you're out of shape. Train in such a way that even your worst self sounds good. If even the worst version of you sounds good, you are ready for the concert!

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Well said!

[@southpark5555]

Think of SAS - or free climing - or something, where a very special, or most special high performance just takes something special, and can take something out of you, or right out of you. In order to get the 'best' performance, training for 'consistency' doesn't always equate to being able to demonstrate your absolute 'peak' (or 'best'). It can also be just up to a particular individual to pull something super special off - eg. Vlad. Corraling somebody into something - such as getting everybody to conform to one recommended style can take something away.

[@marksmith3947]

I studied with a pianist who did her dissertation on a blind pianist. I can look up the name if you're interested. She had the most hands on teaching style I've ever encountered - - very effective. Another teacher, who is a contemporary of Argerich in Argentina with the same teacher, once explained the legato on repeated notes by saying "it's like you get on your tippy toes" and proceeded to demonstrate by flexing up and down on her tippy toes-- at age almost 70 by the way. I liked her approach to technique best. She made very few specific suggestions but I remember all of them vividly. I'm an amateur, to be clear, but I had the good fortune to study with some very fine pianists in adulthood after a succession of mediocre teachers in childhood. My level is what I would call playing Chopin etudes and the Hammerklavier fugue in the shower, so to speak. One of my childhood teachers really emphasized sitting still, which I think was very damaging, resulting in lifelong problems with stiffness.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Interesting story, thanks for sharing!

[@marksmith3947]

@@DenZhdanovPianist I have a different question for you related to piano technique. This is about posture. There are many current pianists who play in a horrible slouching posture - - - regardless of their level of play. Sokolov and Pletnev are two notable examples, but there are many others. Pianists of earlier generations didn't sit like that. Do you have any explanation, or do you disagree? Two things come to mind. First, a pianist who sits high may have to lean over a lot to get into the keys. Second, the examples I can think of have Russian conservatory training. Not all are like that of course. As you would know, Virsaladze does not slouch.

[@noshirm6285]

I recall reading in David Dubal's _Evenings with Horowitz_ the recollections of a student who had been taken to play for the maestro. He said that the piano in use that evening was a temporary replacement from Steinway, as Horowitz's piano had gone in for repairs. The replacement had a very heavy action, and the student marveled at Horowitz's ability to play it with such ease. He also commented on Horowitz's hands and what may have accounted for their strength. Dubal himself wrote about how strong Horowitz's hands were after an arm-wrestling bout that he let Horowitz win. Leschetizky himself said that he had no 'method', as each pianist was different. Horowitz did what worked for him. He never wanted to be imitated.

[@pR-ms4cr]

Cziffra honestly is the best of all time without controverse for his surhuman technique. The rest is at the appreciation of eachone

[@erick-gd7wo]

Thank you for taking your time to produce the video. Your research and your assessment is indeed important for many piano students

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Thank you for your kind feedback!

[@mabdub]

Thank you, this is a very helpful analysis. I remember when Horowitz's Tokyo performance was a disaster and at the time I didn't know anyone who actually believed it was caused by medication. Long before that performance it was well known that his public repertoire had changed a great deal to accommodate his capabilities. The obvious tension in Horowitz's arms, wrists and fingers was a fairly common point of discussion, especially among people who taught piano. You are not the first person to scrutinize Horowitz's technique by analysing his videos but you are among the first people to deconstruct what led to his diminishing technical capabilities. Mostly, people used his videos to emulate his technique, they thought if it worked for him it would work for them. Many students experimented with playing using flat fingers like Horowitz did but what many people didn't know was just how much that technique was actually limiting Horowitz. Horowitz was born with unusually fast reflexes and in his early years that's what sustained his technique but as you point out his technique couldn't be sustained as he aged the way Martha Argerich's technique has sustained her seemingly effortless performances. Obviously, Horowitz had godlike talent and it's clear that you have the greatest respect for that aspect of his supreme musicianship.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Thank for the thorough sum up, I am glad you’re agree with my perspective.

[@johnbarrientos8030]

Noticing Horowitz' proclivity for keeping his hands under the keyboard, I watched carefully all the pianists from Eastern Europe in the last Chopin competition, and they all played with their hands under the keyboard. I think it's an Eastern European thing. For me, I can play either way -- it seems to make no difference. Lifting the fingers high brings greater clarity to me. I do agree that one must eliminate tension in the body as one plays. As Chopin used to say, "easily, easily." Finally, while Horowitz may have been the greatest pianist of the second half of the twentieth century, in my opinion Josef Lhevinne was the greatest pianist of the century. He had a technique greater than Horowitz by Horowitz' own admission, and a more beautiful tone than Artur Rubinstein, by Rubinstein's own admission. Lhevinne was from Russian and graduated from the Moscow Conservatory with a gold medal in piano ahead of Rachmaninoff. I wonder what his technique was like overall. On his octaves, I studied with someone who's teacher studied with Lhevinne, and he said that in playing octaves he would curl the second, third and fourth fingers under and play octave passages only with the thumb and pinky. Lightning fast. Hoffman himself said that Lhevinne's octaves were the most "colossal" ever. For those who don't know, Lhevinne was on the original faculty of Julliard, and his wife, Rosina also taught there and was Van Cliburn's teacher.

[@jeffstarr2545]

A most provocative but interesting theory that makes a great deal of sense. However, I disagree about the premise that was the reason for the change in his repertory as his career progressed; I think that change was more of a result of the maturation of the artist, rather than due to faulty technique----for example, his staggering performances of the Scriabin 5th Sonata from 1974-1976 required no less of a technical challenge (esp. the way he played it) than the Liszt Don Juan which he performed in the 1920s. In response to one of the comments below, I find it difficult to believe that his unique sound was only due to the piano he used; when he made his U.S. debut [BEFORE his was able to have Steinway customize the keyboard action and sonority to his specifications] critics and pianists marveled at his thunderous sonority and rapidity of execution----thus the famous quote from Ignaz Friedman who was at that Jan. 12 1928 debut, "Our careers will never be the same."

[@jonathanbradley8698]

Excellent video. It definitely puts an additional perspective on his long sabbaticals. I think you also give us a better understanding of his attitude to the Chopin etudes, and his reluctance to play most of them.

[@dorfmanjones]

Few and possibly none of the people on this thread heard Horowitz in his 40's and in his prime. When he returned in the 1960's he was already in his 60's. He did not appear in public in his 50's. You'd have to be in your nineties now to have heard him in his middle age. When you listen to his live unedited concerts from the late 1940's his technique is just astounding by any measure. His Mendelssohn, his Kabalevsky, his Liszt! His evenness and finish in the classical repertoire, say Haydn or early Beethoven was unsurpassable. But the thing about Horowitz is that he liked to push the envelope. Nothing was kept in reserve. Backhaus once remarked that the seasoned professional should be able to play his pieces 10% faster and louder than he does in concert. But you can't really say that about Horowitz. He pushed musical/technical matters to the limit. The results were not always ideal.

[@tabby7189]

That's the cost of selling right to his limits. My first major teacher also taught me never to perform the maximum tempo I could pull off. Nobody has the same level of control and quality and consistency at that tempo as they do two notches slower.

[@dorfmanjones]

@@tabby7189 The real question in performance is what are your goals and what is your temperament? Every artist is different as is every listener. Personally I don't go to a live concert to hear 'control' and 'quality.' I can get that from sitting in a couch and putting on a studio recording. I travel to hear something hopefully special and never to be repeated. That's what the Horowitzes, Serkins and Giesekings gave you on the stage, along with the requisite clinkers. But that's me.

[@tabby7189]

@@dorfmanjones depending on the performer, two ticks below the maximum before a precipitous drop in quality doesn't even eliminate every wrong note minus one nor the edginess that comes from playing like he's playing it for the first time. Neither of us is here to tell the other what he should be looking for in a concert, but on my end it's the aspects a recording can't offer - unfamiliarity (because if it's a recording there's a good chance it's not my first time with it), live instrument (recording and playback equipment always lose some sound quality), and the social aspect with the special environment and all. In that light, I'm 100% against any performer being so close to the edge of his/her ability to execute that it takes more than 25% of his/her attention just avoiding crashing and burning.

[@lynnchan2259]

Great video!! Thank you for all the excellent observation and crystal clear points. And love those slow-downed motion of Horowitz's fingers motion.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Thanks for commenting!

[@NoeticConcordance-149]

It seems to my mind that his having arthritis and nerve damage would have dictated to a large degree how he used his body when playing the piano and also not forgetting to mention his various phobias and depressions necessitating drug treatment for all of the above issues. All in all I think that he compensated for these multiple limiting factors heroically and effectively against all the odds, he was a shining example of how to overcome your limitations and he continued to provide some of the best performances both live and recorded of the 20th century. He shows by example there are many ways up a mountain and it is always worth investigating alternative ways of playing a instrument to achieve new heights. Bravo Vladimir and thanks Denis for the video it is a very interesting analysis and provides some great insights into his technique.

[@kpunkt.klaviermusik]

Please make a video like this about Martha Argerich's technique. As you say at some point Argerich's technique is more natural and relaxed compared to Horowitz' I would really like to learn about the subtleties of her pianistic approach.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Thanks I will try!

[@marksmith3947]

I heard that when Horowitz was teaching octaves to a student, he explained that the upper arm should be rigid. A different old school pianist with a very free technique was Hofmann. In one video I saw of him playing the Rachmaninoff C# minor prelude, he looked a rag doll.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

That’s interesting gotta find this recording

[@pianomaly9]

@@DenZhdanovPianist You may have found it by now, Hofmann was noticably sloshed in the film.

[@chiron14pl]

I'm starting to learn piano, so your advice on keeping elbows higher than keys and using whole arm will undoubtedly be helpful to me as I practice

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

That’s a good idea for beginners! Just avoid another extreme as well!)

[@sdcoburn]

Would love to see you do a similar analysis of Glenn Gould’s unusual technique.

[@sharky_spike]

gould was a great artist but his hand position in relation to his entire arm meant he must have had some tendonitis

[@TeamHarrisonMachine]

Are you familiar with Art Tatum? Rachmaninov said “Thank God he’s black or we’d all be out of a job.” Vladimir Horowitz said if Art Tatum decided to take classical music serious he’d quit the next day. Toscanini arrived an hour late to a concert and apologized by saying, “I’m sorry but I was in Harlem listening to Art Tatum.”

[@sherylbegby]

Fantastic video, thank you, Denis. I was told by a teacher who has similar views to you that Rubinstein had "absolutely beautiful" technique. I wonder if you could do a video on his use of forearm rotation and using the whole arm in his playing?

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Thanks for the suggestion, that’s a great topic of course!

[@nelsonpianostudio8990]

That would be fascinating indeed!

[@garrettglass348]

This is a very helpful explanation of the Horowitz technique and its limitations. It's also true that he reduced his repertoire as he aged, and saved his virtuosic work for the encore. But many other artists with long careers do the same thing. One thing you don't mention, which he was most famous for, was his use of flat fingers, and this was in fact his secret weapon in his later years. I heard him perform three times, and once I sat in the first row next to him on the stage. The staggering amount of tones he could get from his flat fingers was unlike anything I had heard from other concert pianists. More to the point, it was how he used these tones to shape a phrase that made him unique. The audience was entranced by these ever-shifting colors - I found his concerts had the least amount of audience noise of any pianist, because everyone was paying attention. I learned from his concerts that the highest aspect of virtuosity in piano playing is not to be found in bravura, technically demanding passages, but in the sense of touch applied to the quieter moments.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Absolutely agree

[@hdesertrat]

Thank you for a very well-reasoned analysis of Horowitz' technique. You made me recall two anecdotes - Horowitz himself admitted that his teacher, Blumenfeld, allowed or expected his students to figure out what worked for them on their own. The other was something Horowitz said, when asked how he felt after playing one of the Chopin etudes - I think it was the Butterfly etude. He remarked that his arm felt like it would drop off.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Interesting, thank you!

[@hdesertrat]

@@DenZhdanovPianist A minor correction - it was the Black Key etude, not the Butterfly. I always mix those two up, I think because I associate them both with the key of G-flat major.

[@arpeggiomikey]

Funny thing: I believe I read that the etude that made Volodya make that "arm falling off" observation was Op. 25 No. 11 ("Winter Wind"), but perhaps he had that experience with both studies.... 🤔😬💥🙏🎹

[@davidbrown8518]

I think the greatest aspect of Horowitz is his enjoyment and fun. He understood the connection between the words "music" and "amuse" and the ideas of playfulness and playing. He had the passion of a child all through his life and I don't think he worried himself sick if he hit a wrong note in his performance. There is a degree of self mockery in his style. I believe that Rachmaninoff said that he did not understand the piano until he heard Horowitz performing. That means that they were both great, musically, but not necessarily so great in keyboard technique.

[@rikspector]

What you may not know is that the pianos he played were set up to have a very gentle action which enabled Him to play rapidly with a rather flat hand position and without a lot of effort. Oh, I see you mentioned that...sorry:(

[@amnbvcxz8650]

Do you have advice for positioning the stool to the right or left of the center of the piano? It was brought to my attention that i lift my right shoulder and lean in to the left a lot. I started positioning stool to the left more to compensate. Ive been more self-observant and noticed that still no matter where i sit, i feel limited and uncomfortable with movements on my right side, such as right elbow bumping into my side or chest when the melody moves lower. I don’t sit too close to piano.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

It's challenging to give precise advice without seeing you, but generally, it's better to sit in the center. You can adjust your arm and torso posture to feel more comfortable. Typically, when playing in a distant zone, fingers are not parallel to the keys. For instance, when playing the right hand in the bass, you'd push your right elbow to the right, causing the fingers to angle in relation to the keys rather than aligning parallel to them.

[@vanewfies]

I totally agree with your accurate analisys. Excellent job, as usual. Thank you. It would be very nice to have some more videos like that about other famous pianists. Personally, I've always admired Argherich's tecnique.

[@brucehain]

I think the finger movement in op. 10 no. 8 is to get an articulated nonlegato sound, not to get the thumb under to the next position. Horowitz was no doubt a master of avoiding a loud thumb/getting smooth transition. Also, it's easier going down than up with the right hand.

[@scottweaverphotovideo]

I remember reading that Horowitz said he had no idea how he did what he did. I guess it was all so natural for him from his very early age. Graffman said Horowitz never told him how to play, he would sit on the sofa and watch while Graffman would play. Horowitz last recorded concert was in Hamburg. He has trouble with the closing piece, Chopin Op 53 but still pulls it off. The final Moskovsky piece is dazzling. Which Scarlatti sonata is in your video? Thank you for all of your wonderful performance and advice!

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Scarlatti K55 Yes that’s the problem - even the most gifted pianists often play intuitively, and don’t teach physiological aspects of piano playing because frankly speaking have no idea about them, however sustainable piano technique is not always intuitive for everyone.

[@IMSColoradoSprings]

I hosted the piano he used on tour at my studio. The keys were extremely light. Teachers and students were invited to come and play on the piano. The same with Van Cliburn's piano. It was displayed at the studio but the keys were normal.

[@sherylbegby]

Your ideas on forearm rotation and recovering from injuries/overuse remind me very much of the Taubman techniques. Are they something you've looked into or been influenced by? I found a Taubman teacher and suddenly a lot of technical difficulties went away and I became so much more conscious of what my muscles and skeleton were doing while I was playing.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Yes, sadly I came across Taubman method too late when I have already re-invented my own bicycle. But it helped me to organize things and understand them in a systematic order. Although I never studied this method officially, and some things I prefer to play and teach differently, so despite influence I am not an orthodox Taubman specialist. I also find many good aspects in flat finger type of technique Horowitz and many other people use, I just find it more risky overall…

[@silv3762]

Great video! I remember seeing somewhere garick ohlosson saying that people that try to imitate might get hurt, and I can see it better now. Maybe a bit too much to ask, but may you do a video like this on Gyorgy Cziffra? Would really be interesting and perhaps benefitial to hear your opinion and point of view on his technical approach. Thanks for the content.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Yeah that’s a peculiar topic thanks for suggestion

[@enriqueernesto738]

Thank you very much for this excellent and enlightening analysis

[@vonPunki]

___ I had a teenage master lesson with Bela Siki who said my Alborada del Gracioso was "not bad" but that my Etudes were too stiff --- a few years later my next teacher made me start over with full relaxation --- at 85 I aim for 100% shoulder to finger relaxation and can play the Octave Etude accurately at speed with total relaxation, always keeping the white thumbs close to the black keys. My first teacher, an internationally acclaimed Godowsky student always talked about 'arm weight', which I never understood --- Could someone comment on MY mostly finger technique, based on finger speed , augmented occasionally by the use of the wrist as a fulcrum to transfer extra relaxed arm weight to the finger tip and move effortlessly to the next location --- e.g. the accented notes in the octave study.

[@tarakb7606]

Thank you, that was fascinating. I was lucky enough to see Horowitz live in the early Eighties. His fingers weren't what they once were, but the sound was stunning. I have never heard anyone come close, and I have heard some of the best (Gilels, Richter, Arrau, Brendel, Kempff, Bolet, Pollini etc). As I understand it, it was his second teacher who got him to switch from a conventional technique to a flat-fingered one. Claudio Arrau, born the same year, heard Horowitz when they both starting their careers. He noted the stiffness in his forearms, and was of the opinion that it would make it difficult to play long sustained passages such as the end of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody no 6. (Arrau's mother was also present at the concert and told her son she thought Horowitz was a better pianist than him.) I am inclined to agree with your assessment, but I do believe it's the flat fingers rather than the lower wrists that were the cause of the problem, as that would have placed an enormous strain on his forearm muscles. After all, it is possible to play comfortably with low wrists if one keeps the fingers slightly curved. Are you planning a discussion about Glenn Gould? He certainly ran into some serious problems late in his career.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Thanks for commenting! Horowitz has used curled fingers at times when executing fast passages but I really doubt he was able to sustain this state for long at the later stages of his career, because combined with the lower wrist position it’s exhausting. Flatter fingers is where you can rest a bit between faster curled passages using this hand posture. It’s surprising people don’t want to see the evident or try themselves.

[@tarakb7606]

​​​​​​@@DenZhdanovPianist I have tried myself, and using flat fingers caused me a lot of problems in no time. Yes, curling his fingers to the extent he did would have been very strenuous. I am merely contending that the flat fingers would have caused more damage. As I said earlier, I agree with your assessment. As happened with Glenn Gould, his unconventional approach caught up with him in later years. But then, it was both artists' unusual approach to piano playing that made them both unique.

[@manassrivastava1048]

Can you please make a video on Wilhelm Kempff's technique! He is my piano God and would love to get insights in his technique. I really liked this video and would humbly request a similar analysis on Kempff! Thanks alot!

[@southpark5555]

1:42 - the fingers don't look tense at all to me. Somebody in the past commented that he plays like a thorougbred horse galloping/running along, magnificently. And I agree with that. It is thoroughbred material. Even reminds me of tarantula spider legs doing their work. Also - if somebody develops their body to do that sort of thing from a young age, then their body might adapt for that. It's like a plant that normally had roots growing out of water. But when given a chance to adapt, new plant roots can grow into water and adapt, and able to grow under water.

[@alanfraser2948]

Unfortunately there are no unbiased points of view. Your presentation is very fine but biased by the Taubman point of view. My approach is biased by my training in the Feldenkrais Method, which gives a completely different understanding of Horowitz's splendiferous technique. His arm was never stiff. You assume so because it doesn't move very much but it was always free. in fact his movement was the most efficient therefore he actually fulfilled the Taubman principles better than any pianist we know. Agonists and antagonists always work in concert, and he used his extensors with great efficiency to get the articulations and sounds he needed. I could go on, but you would needs to read all my four books to get a really complete answer to this very complex question. Find out more at my Piano Somatics KZbin channel.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

I like your lectures very much, I have seen a few of them a while ago actually. But I still think your arms are way more relaxed than of Horowitz!😅

[@alanfraser2948]

@@DenZhdanovPianist thanks so much for your kind comments, Dennis, but I really do believe that Horowitz's arms were not tense. He just reduced their movements to such a point of efficiency that the freedom was invisible. By the way, may I compliment you on your playing, which I find really beautiful and highly virtuosic!

[@alanfraser2948]

Similarly for Horowitz's curled 5th finger, to which everybody ascribes a a dystonia. Horowitz sought extreme voicings, bold orchestrations that would bring a myriad of colours to the concert hall. He discovered a way of "taking up the slack" in both the flexors and extensors in such a way that everything worked better to give him his colours. Look at pictures of Wanda Landowska, another pianist who used this seemingly tense technique which was actually cleverly adroit.

[@alanfraser2948]

@@DenZhdanovPianist but I agree with you that Horowitz's technique certainly did evolve throughout his career. I believe it evolved for aesthetic reasons, not to overcome any technical deficiency. Ronald Turrini once asked the maestro to show him that flat fingered technique. Horowitz's reply was, "it took me 20 years to figure that out, you better not even try, just stick to your standard Russian arch."

[@alanfraser2948]

@@DenZhdanovPianist in any case, Dennis, thank you so much for this really stimulating and fruitful discussion!

[@SE013]

Great attempt, but I think you've got some things wrong. Horowitz's style is the Russian method that uses his body weight, but it appears differently due to his posture. Not only does he sit lower (as you demonstrate), he sits very close to the piano. What happens is that all internal rotations and distribution of weight from the arm occurs with the most minuscule movements, distributed by the fingers. Depending on the passage, he leans forward to shorten even more the distance, or lengthen the arm (which is where you observe the more "efficient" technique). My take is that all this is grounded on the fundamental weight distribution method, but depending on the sound he wants, he changes it. When you demonstrated the finger method, it is clear that you are not distributing the weight of the arm. It obviously requires certain configuration of the muscles in the fingers and its connection to the arm, which Horowitz either naturally had, or developed it over the years. I think your conclusion that he could not sustain his technique, and therefore changed in his repertoire and piano is bit of a stretch. He had amazing technical facility until the end, and he also messed up even when he was young. I also think you're right that he does lift his fingers, but so does Martha Argerich. My point is that "efficient/natural" technique cannot be achieved by focusing on a single factor. Technique is holistic, and in any "efficient" technique, there is tension and ways to compensate that tension and channel it in efficient ways. Without tension, we cannot create force. The tension we see in Horowitz' playing is compensated by other ways. Otherwise, he would not have had the magnificent facility at the piano that most cannot achieve.

[@SE013]

Also, you cannot blame Horowitz for the dystonia of Gary Graffman. He has never attributed his disease to the teachings of Horowitz. Perahia was also his student, but he has not suffered the same fate.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Good points! I cannot say I ever saw Argerich lift fingers the way Horowitz does, but I admit there is ample room for discussion regarding the points you mentioned. I didn’t ‘blame’ Horowitz for Graffman, but usually, when a teacher has a good idea about habits leading to dystonia, they effectively warn students. It’s just one of many points that make me suspect Horowitz was not familiar with alternative approaches. Of course, I admit much of this is just a theory. However, I am not convinced that his technique was sustained well because you can see how he reduced finger motions over decades without however substantially changing the approach. This reduction seems to me a necessity caused by overuse. I am not quite convinced by arguments about advanced pieces in the later years. When a pianist has damaged muscles due to unhealthy technique, it’s still possible to decently play certain tricky pieces if they have been in the repertoire for years (mostly for decades in the case of late Horowitz). However, if you have dealt with overuse issues yourself and with a bunch of students, you start to see how people move when they compensate for lack of mobility and stamina in certain muscle groups. This is what I see from my experience in Horowitz's playing but don’t see in the playing of many other senior players like Virsaladze, Argerich, Hamelin, etc. But, of course, everyone sees a different thing looking at the same object.

[@SE013]

@@DenZhdanovPianist Yes, you're probably right that Horowitz was not so aware of his technique or the technique of others'. He wasn't passionate about teaching either. I think it's interesting that you see typical compensatory movements in late Horowitz's technique. It might be the case if you're very experienced in this area, but it might not be the whole picture either. Looking at the Scarlatti performance, you can see that Horowitz actually plays with his arms. This is evident when he plays certain notes with his right pinky. The hand is directly connected to the flexor muscles of the forearm, effectively depressing the keys by the pulling motion. The curling of the outer fingers are also used when the inner fingers are being used as the weight. I invite you to again compare your version and Horowitz's, and notice that Horowitz does not hit the keys with the finger tips like you do. In your case, you are only using the finger tips to attack the keys, whereas Horowitz uses the part that is closer to the palm in order to depress the keys. Again, this is possible because his fingers (by the support of the knuckle) are directly connected to his forearm, and his posture of sitting low and close to the piano is an efficient way to do so. This of course means light touch, except for the explosive fortes where he uses the whole arm. This is a stylistic choice, and this is probably why he could get away with curling his fingers and other tension inducing techniques. However, I think they are the two sides of the same coin that support his overall technique.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Yes I wouldn’t be able to do this without some additional finger activation on my tougher keyboard that’s true. What I’d interpret as that Horowitz might have killed two rabbits at once by avoiding extensive fingertip activation (because those muscles connected by tendons with nail joints of fingers are exactly the muscles that loose health and stamina from overuse issues first of all), and enhancing stylistic goals on a specially regulated keyboard at the same time. Which is, if it’s true, a brilliant solution overall allowing him to stay afloat with possibly limited stamina, and on top of the market with a unique ‘vintage’ sound result.

[@SE013]

@@DenZhdanovPianist Yes it's possible from your analysis. But have you seen him play Tchaikovsky's piano with Pletnev? He still plays in the same way and produces a beautiful sonority that knocks Pletnev out of the park. I don't think he needed a specially designed piano to play, but he probably preferred it for certain effects. The footage in this video is taken from a great angle from above that shows how much he uses his arms to play. It also should be noted that he uses flat fingers, which are different from the high finger method. In any case, I really appreciated your video! You've given me many things to think about, and you presented your observations in a thorough and visually captivating way. Thank you!

[@jeffmuenster5131]

Back at the end of '90/beginning of '91, I played on Horowitz's Steinway. I, too, was a little surprised at the lightness in the action, and my tuner friends all joked about how much stuff had been done to that piano at his request.

[@matthewlong3817]

Interesting analysis, it makes me wonder how much the spectacular range of colors, timbres, and voicings which Horowitz alone could conjure was a result of his unorthodox technique. Also, I feel this video begs the question: what is the goal of piano technique? Is it merely a mechanical process of applying correct arm and hand movements so that you may perform in the most efficient and safe manner possible? Or is the goal to create something magical and transcendent using the medium of sound?

[@scherrer4715]

For modern pianists, the technique is just about being simplified. The technique of the old pianists (like Lhevinne, Cortot, Rachmaninoff, Horowitz, Backhaus) was not comfortable, but it was all about sound colors, polyphony, etc.

[@m.a.g.3920]

In my opinion the only important thing is SOUND, only someone cares about technique: the pianist. Or even more restricted: pianist's body long term speaking. To create a good analogy, in tennis Nadal was well known as a monster player (also Alcaraz right now), Djokovic has an almost perfect technique so he barely got injuries, Nadal for more injuries, so he played less and worse the last years. But...at the end of the day would you hear the recordings of the Horowitz-es or the recordings of someone with a perfect technique but a mundane sound?? So this is the same. If you can achieve both ok, but that's rarely seen.

[@ananthd4797]

Wonderful analysis, Denis! That said, I often wonder if there's more to the story. All your points about using isolated fingers and so on are well taken, but when I look at, for example, you trying it out, vs Horowitz, you can see that Horowitz's playing seems much more natural even though he's roughly using the same movements. Maybe he's found a way to remain relaxed, and it's a very subtle thing you could only observe if you could see his arms perfectly. The same thing strikes me about Cziffra -- that yes, many people played similarly and got injured, but they didn't play the same. You tend to much more easily be able to see unnaturalness, locked joints, etc. in other pianists who have got injured, vs a Horowitz or Cziffra. They seem loose and relaxed and like they're having fun, and I don't think it's just for show. Of course, there's strength involved, but it's more like the strength of a gymnast where it's invisible. My personal feeling is that they found a local optimum of sorts. If you play the same way they play, it's very hard to play more efficiently. There might be better ways, but if it's efficient enough, it can get the job done, especially at younger ages. Cziffra played the same way into his 70s; that is what fascinates me even more. I feel like there's really something special to be learned there if one can figure out what's going on there. Something I feel, and this might be a bit controversial, is that one of the reasons many pianists sound the same way nowadays is because we have discovered "biomechanically optimal" ways of playing over the past century, which are then taught en masse. Perhaps a more dangerous sound requires more dangerous playing? The sound quality, especially, depends so much on how you strike the key, that if you teach the exact same approach, they will end up with very similar sound quality. I think I can hear this happening, but I'm not sure what could be done about it.

[@charmquark6366]

I agree with your last point. We can hear Lang Lang’s Hungarian Rhapsody and immediately recognize it’s him. Same goes for Cziffra, Katsaris, Pogorelich to name just a few. I’ve come to realize our body is actually a part of the instrument these days.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Thanks for commenting, good points! Parrying your concern, I don’t think that efficient technique makes people sound the same: Argerich, Gilels, Sokolov, Rachmaninoff, to name a few, represent a very efficient and sustainable technique, but I wouldn’t say they lost some personality because of that. On the contrary, Trifonov, Kissin, and Lang Lang (at least before his injury) have a quite risky approach to piano playing, but I personally can’t say it always convinces me musically. But I agree that a unique physiology can allow to stay afloat with a quite weird way of playing for longer. I have no idea for example how Kissin didn’t get injured yet with an incredible amount of banging and physical force he uses. But in case of Horowitz I still see a drastic difference in brilliance and control between his earlier and later public performances (recordings don’t count because you can do a hundred of takes for any spot until you nail it) which aligns with my arguments from the video.

[@ericastier1646]

Excellent well substantiated and referenced pianism analysis. I don't think his flat fingers technique was ever accepted by anybody as a model to follow," it looks bad, but sounds good" is the well accepted credo among his fanatic admirers. They would drown the argument by saying he was a genius to make his odd technique work. The funny anecdote for me is i had seen none of his video recordings when i stumbled on the Tokyo Op 25 n 10 recital while i was studying that etude. I was very surprised how badly he played and remember thinking this is so bad that some pianists would stop and walk off the stage. After this I took his fame with a lot of suspicion. It's unfortunate we don't have any video coverage of Rachmaninof playing, as before becoming a famous composer he lived from being a concert pianist. I somehow remember maybe wrongly reading that he had a flat fingers technique as well but in his case, his huge hands change a lot of parameters.

[@panoskarnezis913]

I played the Horowitz piano, too, once. Something did indeed feel quite funny about it, but I just couldn't tell. Was the down-weight too light? Was the up-weight too heavy? Were the hammers voiced brilliantly? In a moment of inspiration, I decided to lift the lid and, lo and behold, I saw a very elderly midget, the smallest you've ever seen, operating a complex set of levers. Caught red-handed, the diminutive gentleman admitted, not without some pride, that he alone was responsible for the legendary Horowitz sound. Later, over a glass of wine, he told me how the maestro had hired him in his youth when they were both working at a circus in Bohemia. Mr Horowitz had shown him the piano mechanism and sworn him to secrecy. They had been together ever since. When I asked him if Horowitz's famous retirement from the stage had anything to do with a hand injury, he cackled as if demented. The truth according to the midget was that the immortal virtuoso had caught him with Wanda in bed and thrown him out. But Horowitz eventually realised that he was nothing with him, his playing not unlike that of so many pianists who make KZbin videos. So, some years later he had swallowed his pride and hired him back. The sound had nothing to do with Franz Mohr either. Mohr was a straw man. It's all about them levers, he told me, the levers! And he downed his drink and swiftly disappeared into the night. A true story, I swear.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Gosh I hope you write some books

[@gatesurfer]

I think one of the most important factors was that he toured with his own piano. I got to play it once and it was the lightest action I’ve ever experienced, like you could breathe on the keys and they’d play. It was paired with Van Cliburn’s on a nationwide tour, and Cliburn’s was stiff as a board, almost unplayable for me. Horowitz’ long fingers give him leverage on the keys probably, and key speed as well.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Yes, the piano tremendously influences both attitude and technique. I am sure I would end up playing very differently on it also in comparison to what I try out in the video. In Horowitz's case, it becomes an argument akin to the chicken-or-egg debate. While many believe the piano caused him to develop a more peculiar playing style, I nevertheless hold a different opinion. It seems to be a manifestation of catastrophic arrogance in our cancel-culture idolized society. ha. ha.

[@MichaelKaykov]

An interesting tidbit is the piano used for that Horowitz 1967 filmed concert was actually a relatively new Steinway with a pretty sluggish action (according to the pianist who filled in for Horowitz for all the tedious camera tests). Horowitz loved that piano but eventually went back to his custom 1930’s flagship (that’s what he played in those filmed Moscow and Vienna performances).

[@ProfDrislane]

Horowitz would sometimes used a kind of "spasm technique" where he would play fast chords or octaves with the wrist held still, or nearly so, and "vibrate" from the elbow. This means that one can have short runs of great speed. However, if used in passages with skips, etc., this can result is great inaccuracy, as heard in his classic recording of the Liszt sonata, etc.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Spasm technique, that’s a great name for it!☺️ It surely works for specific spots on extremely light action pianos, but I lean towards Argerich’s “anti-spasm technique”, who also plays chords and octaves from the elbow but with a supreme mobility and freedom of bodily parts, especially wrists. What I cannot understand is when people say that Horowitz played super efficiently when we have such amazing alternative examples. Reading through comments I remembered Anderson’s The Emperor’s New Clothes tale a countless number of times😅

[@ProfDrislane]

@@DenZhdanovPianist I agree about Argerich. Her technique is clearly more long lasting and effective than Horowitz's in terms of pure mechanism. Horowitz was of course a great colorist and dramatist when in form, but it seems that there's quite a lot of "legend making" around about how good he was technically..

[@scherrer4715]

You should listen to Horowitz's recording of the Liszt sonata from 1932. The problems in his old age are not due to flaws in his technique, but to the problems he has experienced: Alcohol, drugs, electroshock therapy, depression, the length of the break, the lack of ambition he used to have.

[@ProfDrislane]

@@scherrer4715 I'm very familiar with this recording, and it contains some great playing of course, with imaginative use of tone colour and varied articulation. Listen carefully to the octave passages however, and you'll see they are not very accurate, and not up to the clarity of Argerich and others (especially the left hand!). I think that legendary ideas about Horowitz as a technician tend to obscure his more valuable contributions to music..

[@scherrer4715]

I will compare on the basis of this work. But at the time I had compared with Horowitz and Argerich the coda of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 6, the octaves in the third movement of Tchaikovsky's No. 1 Concerto, and several octaves passages in Rachmaninoff's No. 3; Horowitz's octaves were much cleaner and more expressive.@@ProfDrislane

[@JohannnesBrahms]

You have NO idea what Horowitz was feeling when he played that Etude of Chopin. The big mistake that piano students make when trying to analyze technique is to try and figure out how body parts are behaving when playing. The point of contact with the lever mechanism of the keys is all there is. All you have to do when practicing technique is to pay attention to maintaining the delicate balance between tension and relaxation in the weight and muscles of the arm and shoulder while paying great attention to the counterweight of the keys as you depress them. It is nothing more than than applying Newton's Third Law of Motion that says for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. If you look carefully at that slow-motion film of Horowitz playing the Chopin Etude, you will notice how his fingers interact with the keys. His fingers sink into the pillow-soft depression of the individual keys. His fingers and the piano are united by touch. The acrobatics of the hands are irrelevant. In the words of Arthur Rubinstein, he is making love with the keys.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

I am not convinced, and I do think there are much more things to think about when practicing piano, but thanks for the opposing opinion!

[@JohannnesBrahms]

As an analogy, You can love thy neighbor as thyself as a model for behavior or you can follow the ten commandments of the Old Testament. The former subsumes the latter. You can relax the muscles of your hand and arm and let the counterbalance of the key teach you how to touch it or you can torture yourself by paying attention to the multifaceted functions of your body and get nowhere. If you are honest, you have no idea how your brain and body do what it does. You just do it. You don't use the piano to make music, you are the piano's instrument to make music. The piano is making the sound, NOT your dancing fingers. @@DenZhdanovPianist

[@br14nh]

Thank you for a very insightful look into Horowitz and his technique. No assessment of piano technique of that era would be complete without reference to the technique and teachings of Cortot - I would be very interested if you could look at how Horowitz's style compared to that of Cortot given that Cortot spent so much time teaching and published numerous books on the topic, and particularly as he was regarded as the world's leading interpreter of Chopin.

[@craigbrowning9448]

As a Non-Classical player, it is interesting to see how to get around physical damage from playing. I have managed to get some physical issues. As a Jazz player, having to alter one's playing technique and the resulting change in the performance. I had some Alexander Technique training when I was in school and would like to get back into that.

[@georgelaing2578]

Have you examined the playing of Samson Francois?

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Not much

[@dmytrosemykras3290]

Extremely accurate and comprehensive analysis! Thank you for the great work.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Thanks for your feedback Dyma!

[@kalla_c]

Very interesting video and channel. I would like to know what you think about the piano technique of Sokolov or Volodos.

[@romanmarchenko.pianist]

Дуже цікавий розбір. Браво за сміливість!

[@dkant4511]

All these things about Cziffra. Cziffra would often slow down when things got tough like Simon Barere does for the thirds in Schumann Toccata at Carnegie Hall. Argerich's technique is the great secret! Also Sokolov! Horowitz talked about feeling like his arm would fall off for Winter Wind etude(Plaskin biography). He always had a weird technique

[@meredith218461]

One can endlessly debate aspects of piano technique by observing various performing styles of iconic names such as Horowitz. For me, the ultimate criterion is the ultimate artistic/musical result, which in the case of Horowitz is never less than compelling. Admittedly I was somewhat alarmed when I first viewed this extraordinary individual by the unconventional posture at the keyboard which appeared to flout every teaching rule of sitting and hand position. But then when one considers his unique recorded legacy such pedantic observations pale into insignificance.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Yes, that’s a great point from the public’s perspective. For us, however, a question of how to maintain a robust technique and avoid injury that kicks many performers out of business sometimes for months sometimes forever, is a very important and legitimate question.

[@pianoredux7516]

Claudio Arrau noted Horowitz's stiff arms and forearms in the book "Conversations with Arrau" and said he was baffled by it. Your analysis is provocative but raises some contradictory issues. Horowitz played many pieces new to his repertoire in his later years (see the Harold Schonberg biography). He did not have a new piano built in his later years to accommodate his need for a lighter action, he used older pianos and their regulation and voicing was fairly constantly maintained by Franz Mohr from the early 1960s on (read Mohr's book). And there's no evidence that Horowitz actually suffered from tendinitis or other digital issues that forced his sabbaticals and retirements. Both Wanda Landowska and Jose Iturbi (who studied with Landowska) played with similarly non-ergonomic curved upraised fingers and do not seem to have suffered, they played into their 70s (Iturbi into his 80s). Glenn Gould obviously played with elbows below the keyboard, although admittedly he used his arms freely. The fact is that Horowitz's personal anatomy enabled him to adopt his physical stance without suffering physical consequences. He had very large hands plus wrists and forearms of unusual girth and fleshiness--I know because I met him once backstage and shook his hand while carefully observing his hand, wrist, and forearm in that moment.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

An inefficient technique doesn’t always lead to injury, but increases the chances drastically. Thanks for pointing to imprecision about the piano, but it was still regulated to the extreme light level. Many people manage also to recover from injuries and get back to profession, some revealing their struggles, and some being rather reluctant to admit it. I am glad that in the last years piano related injuries don’t maintain a taboo status, and people are less ashamed to speak about it, as it often happened during the last century. Yes, my theory is just a theory based on my perspective, and probably we will never know the complete truth. He surely had a very unique physiology which in my opinion had both pros and cons, and yet I have my strong suspicions regarding his capacity to maintain the technical level he once had with this particular technical approach.

[@labienus9968]

I agree with most of what you say-find this presentation in this video unconvincing. I disagree with your ending though. VH actually did not have a very large hand (he even comments on it-compared to Rachmaninoff, or Rubinstein, or obviously van Cliburn)-cetainly a large one, and long and porky fingers-but it was unusual in its developed muscles, especailly on top. Anyway for most music this "large" hand thing is a myth-Liszt himself they say only a 9th. I met himn also backstage, and he signed a program, but you couldn't get near his hands, and the program was passed through an aide. Did your really shake his hands?

[@pianoredux7516]

@@labienus9968 My dear sir or madame, respectfully, you are impugning my veracity. Yes I was personally introduced to Horowitz backstage in 1975 by a well-known pianist whom he knew and whom I knew. And I remember the moment exactly as I describe it above, and I'm tired of people purporting to know the size of Horowitz's hand who have not physically experienced it in a handshake. And, for physical reference, I, like Liszt, can play 9ths, too. Let's all try to be a little more respectful, no?

[@labienus9968]

What is it with the internet, the anonymity that brings such strange behavior out of people?..no wonder this coutry is such a mess. All you had to say dear sir, madame or whatever-that yes, I did actually shake hands with him. How about that? He was not as crazy as Gould, but many musicians don' t like having their hands shaken-OK, and when they do it is often barely one OK. I had a pianist friend who actually had some lessons with him, briefly, and when I told him about my experience backstage, he laughed and said he always gets the programs handed to him. Why I asked. Let's try to be a little less reactive and imagining the worst-after all this is not the Gaza war here. The crazy thing is I agreed with you, except for the hand size As to hand size-except for people with absolutely enormous hands-Dr. J-shaking hands is a very deceptive way of gauging the size. Did you ever imagine, could it ever enter your brain that yes, you shook his hand, but may have misperceived its size? I think my description of his hands is reasonably accurate, and there is chapter and verse where others have described his hand-he himself mentions the sheer limitation when he played Rach for example. It was unusual compared to most people's but clearly not a massive paw.

[@pianoredux7516]

@labienus9968 Now I'm being accused of misperception, which in essence redoubles the original affront. Essentially you are accusing me of lying. You're welcome to your own misperceptions.

[@markwinspear5903]

After watching your presentation I am reminded of Godowsky's comment to another musician who mentioned Hofmann's wrong notes in a recital they had just attended; "why look for spots on the Sun?"

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Because it’s not about wrong notes but about reasons to incorporate (or not) experience of others.

[@markwinspear5903]

Of course it's not about wrong notes, that's not the point I was making by quoting Godowsky's response.

[@whatzause]

Thank you. I learned valuable things from this video of yours that are new to me and that I will apply myself from now on. Finally, a comment on the Horowitz performance of Chopin’s Polonaise in Ab at 4:00pm on a Sunday in the Rose Garden of the White House years ago. He made many terrible mistakes during that, but I have never read or heard any commentary on the fact.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Glad it was helpful! Yes nobody is perfect and some of the worst concerts I’ve heard in my life were given by the biggest names (emerging young pianists may not be as experienced in stage presence but usually work hard to present their programs in a good quality). It’s a shame that nowadays nobody dares to give honest critics about what they think if the pianist is very famous. In my opinion, this leads to industry stagnation and idolizations.

[@shumiatcher]

Unfortunately there has never been a pianist like Horowitz - his color and nuance, excitement & sensitivity - he was ike no one else. Argerich and Yuja are extraordinary, but in person, I’d never experienced anything like Horowitz. Exceptional, exceptional ….. We need Harmonic tension and tension itself serves something far greater than only being relaxed although that is of course a necessity. Mr. Graffman studied for decades before meeting Mr. Horowitz & doesn’t blame Mr. Horowitz. You know, Horowitz was humble and brilliant however, I appreciate your thoughtful examination . It is appreciated - thank you

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

I would contend that numerous musicians are equally fascinating, if not more so, and have delivered renditions of Horowitz's repertoire that, in my personal view, surpass his. Pronouncing Horowitz as the definitive pianist is akin to declaring Einstein the sole crucial scientist. It involves conflating personal branding with genuine achievement. There are many scientists whose contributions rival Einstein's genius but receive less promotion for wider audiences.

[@RaineriHakkarainen]

Not True! Come on! Dimitri Bashkirov her teacher Anastasia Virsaladze teach saying to Bashkirov the most important lesson is the love of beautiful colorful piano sound! More colorful beautiful piano sound than Horowitz=Wilhelm Kempff Emil Gilels Radu Lupu Artur Rubinstein Vladimir Ashkenazy Grigory Sokolov! More genius than Horowitz=Sviatoslav Richter Solomon Cutner Grigory Sokolov Maurizio Pollini Stanislav Bunin Maria Grinberg Murray Perahia Alexei Lubimov Dinu Lipatti Stanislav Igolinsky! More powerful louder than Horowitz=Mikhail Pletnev! The Second Loudest ever was Lazar Berman! The 3rd Loudest was Erwin Nyiregyhazi! Beethoven wanted louder instruments piano fortes!

[@hampton4454]

This is really interesting to me. I would like to see more videos on the topic of Horowitz technique.

[@simples244]

Horowitz was one of few pianists who improvise which few of today's can do,apart from Katsaris who I admire greatly.,also who has an inspiring ability to voice inner melodic lines ..

[@markhedman1884]

It would be interesting to see you do a similar analysis of Artur Rubinstein. He and Horowitz had contrasting personalities, technique, and interpretation. They both started young, knew each other, were rivals, and played concerts into old age, and were considered the Last Romantics.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Yes it’s fascinating how different they were despite that common marketing label you mentioned😅 thanks for your suggestion!

[@doublevision5465]

Artur Rubinstein said Horowitz was a better pianist but that he (Artur) was a better musician.

[@markhedman1884]

@@doublevision5465 Yes, I read that in Rubinstein's book. The book tells how they were friends at one time. I was just watching Rubinstein play in concert Schumann's Carnaval, he must have been around 79, and he plays with a great deal of vigor and expression.

[@LogioTek]

Lol you zoomed in on Lola Astanova at 5:47 next to the video you were talking about, was that by chance?

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Won’t say😅

[@jadalmatamoros6368]

I don't know much about Horowitz but I can compare him to the great opera singer Maria Callas, that with a decent technique ( inmense musical knowledge) was able to make so much sense of their art leaving behind many others with great technical method of singing or playing, it wasn't just the technique but the genius to understand the music and give it life and make it something you can almost touch, very few can manage to do that, for this they will forever be present in our lives and among the greatest of all times.

[@alchemistofmusic8265]

Horowitz only "decent" technique? Wtf?

[@jadalmatamoros6368]

​@alchemistofmusic8265 I should have used unorthodox technique adjective instead of decent. My bad 😂

[@donaldaxel]

From what I've heard so far, until 07:44, this is the best advice I've ever got for doing more progress, working with position, movements and tension/unwinding tension. ❤

[@FavoriteMovieDate]

Interesting. My mother disliked Horowitz and loved Rubinstein. She considered Horowitz a cold player and thought Rubinstein’s emotion sublime despite the occasional mistake. To her, feeling trumped technical perfection. She was extremely knowledgeable and musically talented so I trusted her judgment. I thought I could hear a difference in the emotion but wondered if it might have been prejudice based on my mother’s influence. This insight is extremely interesting.

[@FingersKungfu]

He was born in Kiev, right? I read that he grew up there (Kiev) and he was taught the Russian system of techniques where a student had to bent the upper torso toward the piano and the elbows will be in a fixed position tightly by the side of the ribs. I never noticed that he sat quite low throughout his career, though.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

‘Russian system’ is an ideological gimmick in my opinion. There are hundreds of top level pianists from Ukraine and Russia who play in a safer way, it solely depends on a particular teacher.

[@SaiChooMusic]

I recall an Anton Rubinstein book teaching this kind of posture.

[@pianomaly9]

Thank you for this fascinating video. I heard VH nine times, from 1976-1983. At the risk of repeating others' remarks, I will say that his hand position, if used by a student in an astute teacher's studio, would come in for severe crticism. Stiff wrists and fingers in contorted liftings like what you see in an untutored beginner. Yet he made it work.......uncannily. His recordings until around the age of 60, made every one else sound like they were sleepily trudging through mud. I heard about his juiced up piano with keys that you could blow down in the 70's. I had a couple of brief exchanges with the man himself, at a record signing event and after a recital. Would you consider looking at the videos of Ervin Nyiregyhazi, and commenting on his approach to the piano?

[@matthewclarke5008]

You're very clever but I feel there's just a few things that you're not observing about Horowitz' playing. It's very hard to see it, he's not really focused on down at all, his motion is always up, it gives a very different sound, but yes you can see the down action which you observed as of course to move up you first must move down, he has hardly any down in his playing, during the moment of tone production that is. Also if you read Matthay The Invisible And Visible In Piano Technique, I believe there were rotational forces in Horowitz' technique, invisible, otherwise he wouldn't be able to coordinate that like he does. Also with the Chopin Etude, notice where he's playing the key from, right at the part closest to us, it gives a very different sound... that is his focus, not efficiency, he couldn't always achieve the results he wanted in this way, but when it did work no pianist could achieve the same sound, it's not possible without the physical risk.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

That’s an interesting perspective, although I not completely sure what you mean. In my opinion, his uplifting motion you mentioned is just him staying tense after the strike. In my personal experience, after a hammer hits a string, the string will continue to ring according to physics law, not really influenced by arm after-motions, so I don’t see a point of staying tense after the hit. Of course, if we count a visual body language, that might actually make a difference, because when you see someone raising the hand after a hit you might be more impressed than when a pianist stays efficient. I have a nasty feeling that there is a whole huge confusion between what people SEE and thus what they THINK they HEAR. This is a main reason pianists go for more and more explicit facial and body language, and although Horowitz was laughing on pianists who “do faces”, he was a master of enhancing an audible impression with gestures.

[@matthewclarke5008]

@@DenZhdanovPianist No, the tone is produced upward, Horowitz does this well. There's too much down in your technique, so I can see how you fail to understand this as you're so used to all this down, it produces a harsh sound and you're used to it. I don't want to argue, you can either learn or please just don't bother talking to me because I don't have the energy for arguments and am not interested in them.

[@zugzwang2007]

It is indeed almost impossible for there not to have been some rotational component in his motions. I found it interesting to view the Tokyo recital (which was in some ways more cleverly filmed than many others from a bio-mechanical viewpoint) in slow motion. This showed an extraordinary number of discrete lateral and diagonal shifts of hand position, enabling a finger to be delivered to the target key. Occasionally he can be seen visually lining up the target just beforehand. Very different from the more flowing pre-choreographed movements that many other pianists employ to achieve this objective.

[@duartevader2709]

Just one thing that makes me very confused, you said Horowitz's technique allowed for incredible stuff when he was young but later limited him in his late years, how did it limit in that much tho, he played rach 3 until he was 74 while ive never seen anyone else over 60 play it and he also played rach's second sonata at 80 (and some other very technically challenging pieces late in his life), how do you explain this then, it just makes no sens to me

[@allegroaffettuoso9012]

The flaw in this video is that this person is comparing themselves to Vladimir Horowitz, projecting without factual support, and cherry-picking. Everybody is slightly different, physiologically. Horowitz could curl his right pinky finger tightly, and yet still move the other four fingers with perfect independence; something even other virtuoso pianists can’t accomplish, even when they try. I’d posit that as demonstration that the physiology of his hand/arm’s musculature may have been slightly different from the average person’s: maybe a particular muscle was stronger than normal, or perhaps a particular tendon and ligament weren’t connected the way they are in other peoples’ hand. It’s impossible to say authoritatively *why* without scientific study of his hand, but I’m wiling to posit that as a hypothetical observation that he may have had slight psychological differences. Did Horowitz have improper technique, or did he have the technique that worked for the physiology of his hands and fingers? The person in the video talks about what feels natural & comfortable *to him*, but he is not Vladimir Horowitz. He says in the video that, of course, you can’t compare the best pianist ever and some random guy from youtube…but then he does just that. These are two different people with two different bodies. What doesn’t feel natural to you may feel like the most natural thing to another person. He suggests that how Horowitz played might be harmful or “inefficient” to someone else, but Horowitz, even in his old age, played with a level of ease and freedom that nearly every great pianist of the 20th Century, and even new pianists of the 21st Century stare at in awe, still. He says that there’s a difference between “short-term piano technique” and “long term piano technique”, and speaks about how improper technique can be damaging. Well that’s true. But, Vladimir Horowitz was still performing and recording up until his death, at 86 years old. He famously recorded the Rachmaninoff Third Concerto at 75, Scriabin’s Vers La in his 70s, some Chopin’s etudes in his 80s, and many other exceptionally difficult works. And he could still play those works with more skill and éclat than those with proper technique. In fact, his decline was traced to the use of medications for his mental health issues, not any particular physical damage to the hands or arms. So, if his technique were so improper, one would think it would have impacted him, but he was still able to perform exceptionally well into his 80s. The guy in the video links back, numerous times, to the famous bad performance Horowitz did in Tokyo in 1983 as evidence of his statements, but, Horowitz biographers and those who knew him personally testify that those performances were the result of the psychiatric medication he was on…not poor technique. And once he changed that medication, those issues went away. He gave numerous superb recitals in his old age, many of which are on video, but are curiously missing from this assessment. Moreover, he kept recording up until his death, and his studio recordings remain superior, technically. His final take of the Revolutionary Etude is blazingly fast, effortless, and with almost pianissimo leggiero playing in the left hand that would not be possible for someone whose technique had been compromised by physical injury or damage. And while he does acknowledges that Horowitz was on psychiatric drugs during the Tokyo recital, he says that if Horowitz had “efficient piano technique”, he would’ve been able to get through the Tokyo recitals. Well, that’s just nonsense. No amount of “efficient piano technique” is going to help you combat the debilitating effects of strong psychiatric medication. He talks about what he would do to play octaves if he was tense or suffering from overuse…but again, Horowitz was not suffering from overuse, but debilitating psychiatric medication. He looks at an old video & says that Horowitz’s fingers are tense during octaves while looking at an old video…mind you, the video is slowed down by nearly 10x speed. So, we’re not seeing prolonged tension..you’re seeing the minor natural tensing that occurs when playing octaves at those speeds. He then starts postulating reasons for why Horowitz took his sabbaticals and loosely tying them to technique, but nothing demonstrably or summarily supports that assumption. He suggests that Horowitz’s repertoire diminished with age, but that is not an indication of technique, so much as a trend that nearly all concert pianists exhibit as they get older. He mentions Martha Argerich as a model of perfect playing - and I agree) - but her repertoire has also dwindled as she’s aged. So that contradicts his point. He also mentions having a piano with a very light action, but so did Liszt, and so do many pianists. It is a fact that modern pianos have a heavier key down weight than the pianos which were used by the composers whose music he plays, so naturally going for a lighter action is sensible. So, again, a contradiction to his point. He then mentions Horowitz’s student developing physical issues, but Horowitz didn’t teach technique to his students. Like Liszt, he was not particularly hands-on with the technique side of things and expected students to take care of that on their own. Many of them say he was concerned more about interpretation and mentorship. Moreover, he had other students who were just fine and had no issues. Graffman’s issues were his own. This kind of cherry-picking, again, weakens the argument. This person cherry-picks two or three bad performances out of YEARS of exceptional recorded recitals, and uses this as evidence. That’s not evidence, that’s cherry-picking and intentionally ignoring context and facts. I think when you try to judge someone like a Vladimir Horowitz by typical standards - a mistake as he was atypical and extraordinary- AND you leave out context, facts, and data to build your narrative, it’s hard to take this video as a serious assessment of Horowitz.

[@axsup7g140]

WOW, what a powerful statement!!

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Thanks for diligently criticizing my position, I'll address a few things despite them being addressed in the video clearly enough. "projecting without factual support", - I rely not only on my own experience which is clearly not an authority for you, but also on acclaimed approaches by Taubman and Boillet, among experience of working with physicians specializing specifically on musicians injuries. "maybe a particular muscle was stronger than normal, or perhaps a particular tendon and ligament weren’t connected the way they are in other peoples’ hand" - isn't it a projection without factual support? "Horowitz, even in his old age, played with a level of ease and freedom that nearly every great pianist of the 20th Century, and even new pianists of the 21st Century stare at in awe, still." - I don't awe, because there are many more technically efficient players of his age, despite I admire his artistic presence. " Moreover, he kept recording up until his death, and his studio recordings remain superior, technically" - as a person who knows a bit about recordings, I can make an audio recording of the flight of the bumblebee played with one finger using editing techniques. "...pianissimo leggiero playing in the left hand that would not be possible for someone whose technique had been compromised by physical injury or damage." - as a person who didn't play piano for a year due to an overuse issues, which is the main reason I had to gain some knowledge on the issue in order to get back to the profession, I can enlighten you that the condition after injury fluctuates for years greatly, ranging from a bloody catastrophy to a quite decent level of dexterity. I know people who have spent 5-7 years recovering from focal dystonia, have been performing successfully for a few years... in order to run into issues and stop playing again. We don't know for sure that's true, because Horowitz was smart enough to cover himself with a blanket of mystery, but you won't get closer to the truth using emotional oversimplifications and not digging into the relevant literature and studying efficient approaches from the experts in the field. "He then mentions Horowitz’s student developing physical issues, but Horowitz didn’t teach technique to his students." - exactly, because he, as well as bunch of famous piano teachers has no idea about efficient approaches. On the contrary, if he knew them, he could notice dangerous signs in the playing of Graffman and warn him in advance.

[@allegroaffettuoso9012]

@@DenZhdanovPianist - The Taubman approach is controversial, at best. There are as many detractors of it as there are supporters of it. To this day, it still remains something of an outlier among the general method of piano pedagogy. The same goes for Boillet. Using that as an authority by which to judge an acclaimed concert pianist doesn’t offer a lot of evidentiary support, those approaches are not even popularly agreed upon as standard, and remain controversial. - I am not projecting that perhaps Horowitz’s hands may have had slight physiological differences - I am positing that, which I acknolwedged as a “hypothetical observation” verbatim, based on the demonstrable evidence that we have of Horowitz being the only concert pianist of note who played with a tightly curved finger. Based on the physiology of the hand, as is typical, that would be nearly impossible for others. And many who tried it as an amusement were unable to replicate his results. That would suggest there were some physiological differences. Now, as I also admit verbatim, there’s no way to prove that without legitimate scientific study of Horowitz’s hand, but at least we have demonstrable evidence for that. - You may not be in awe of Horowitz, but many are. Your experience is not central. He is and remains one of the most popular and inspirational classical pianists of all time, remaining a major figure three decades after his death. Even the recent Cliburn competition winner shared how he openly based his own Rachmaninoff Third Concerto interpretation on Horowitz’s. You are using *your* anecdotal perception as a basis by which to make a factual technical judgment call about Horowitz, and I would caution against that. - What you could do in a studio now is NOT what Vladimir Horowitz could do in the studio during his lifetime. He died in 1989. Everything he recorded was recorded using tape, as modern methods didn’t even exist yet. He was not sitting in front of a computer, able to type in midi notes, and alter them at his will or speed them up how he wanted. The most they could do back then was splice takes together. So, no, he would still have been playing. - Moreover, even ignoring the recordings, there are live videos of him playing, well into old age, and still exhibiting superior control. His performance of the Liszt-Schubert Soirees de Vienne from his performance in Moscow is a superb demonstration that his control, speed, dexterity, and independence were all still there. The Vienna performance. Many others. All on film, all exhibiting live performances of exceptional control. And all of which you ignore to focus on the famously dreadful performance in Tokyo where even legitimate biographers confirm he was affected by heavy psychiatric medication. - Have you heard Horowitz’s last recording of the Revolutionary Etude. That’s not “quite decent”. It’s literally one of the fastest, if not the fastest, performance of the piece on record, and, despite the incredible speed, he barely goes above piano or mezzo piano in the left hand for the bulk of the work. That’s high order virtuosity. To assume he’d be able to accomplish that after severe injury isn’t logical. - As you acknowledge, we don’t know if assumptions of injury are true. There’s absolutely nothing to support that assumption. But what we *do* know for sure are the points you have tried to minimize or ignore: Horowitz was on heavy psychiatric medication that affected him neurologically and affected his motor skills. He was also a drinker. He also underwent a period of electroshock treatment at one point in his life. He was a chronic sufferer of Anxiety Disorder and stage fright which is enough to affect anyone’s playing even without considering the other issues. His wife Wanda said he also suffered colitis. He had numerous documental mental breakdowns. The lack of context you’re using to justify your position doesn’t seem fair. Horowitz’s playing was affected by so much more, but you’re glossing that over to make assumptions about his technique merely because it doesn’t work for you. - I’m not making emotional oversimplifications. I’m presenting the facts as they are. I have studied Horowitz for over 20 years now, read every biography there is to read, and studied his playing. I am presenting contrary evidence. You zero in on a famously bad performance and use that to support most of your assumptions, while also dismissing the official account that’s even supported by biographers who had no connection to him. You suggest that “efficient playing” can somehow counteract psychiatric medication as a reason to suggest that the medication wasn’t the problem, but no psychiatrist would agree with you on that. - Horowitz didn’t teach technique to his students because he expected them to already be proficient technicians; the same way Liszt did. To say, however, that Horowitz did not know how to teach technique or have an efficient method to do so is patently false. Horowitz studied at the Kiev Conservatory under Tarnowsky and Felix Blumenfeld, ALL of whom were exceptional teachers and pedagogues steeply rooted in the Russian & Romantic tradition of methodology, which itself was rooted in the methods of Czerny. Many concert pianists who teach don’t go into the depths of technique, because they expect their students to already possess it. Moreover, Graffman was mentored by him informally for two yers, but he was not taught from the ground up by Horowitz. By the time Graffman came to Horowitz, he was already a student of the Curtis Institute, studied at Columbia, won a major competition, and debuted with numerous orchestras. So, to place Graffman’s issues on Horowitz is ill-informed. You’re literally saying that the greatest pianists of all time didn’t know how to teach and didn’t have effective methods. There’s a bit of arrogance in such a statement, especially when you come to that conclusion by ignoring contrary evidence.

[@musical_lolu4811]

@zailngdt that's nonsense. If anything, placing a do-not-watch caveat appears to be a cheap move to avoid confrontation and pushback on the points raised. A video on social media is decidedly a marketing piece; it was uploaded for the eyes of anyone and everyone interested in the subject matter. It doesn't make much sense then to place such a caveat on a topic that is clearly open for debate and has so been for decades. It would have been much better if the general tenor of his argument was less leading and prescriptive.

[@oanalesnic79]

👏

[@motoroladefy2740]

My teacher used to say we should look at the geniuses, but not try to copy them, because they made mistakes but sounded good any way because of being geniuses.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

I think you had a very good teacher, although I would also add that even geniuses sound not always good, and what’s even more confusing, is that there is no objective truth what ‘good’ is 😅

[@mkmeed]

Great fine study and analysis of Horowitz's styles.

[@mathieugregoirepianiste3924]

Excellent, comme toutes vos vidéos ! Pour l’étude en tierces de Chopin j’utilise volontiers les mouvements dedans/dehors qui permettent d’éviter trop d’efforts…

[@KlausBambey]

That was very interesting! Anyway, I am not a pianist but I play the piano and I am always stunned when I listen to Rachmaninows piano concerto No. 3 and following the partitur - how can a human being play this multitude of notes with such impossible speed? I think, to be able to do so, a pianist is, while playing those passages, in a kind of trance.

[@richardofpleasantway8027]

As someone who attended a recital by V H, (1978, very last row in balcony) he played his Sunday concert and seemingly made the building shake. Yet also, I feel so fortunate to have that experience And know the pitfalls of some of these old outmoded techniques. Thank you Denis!

[@PatrickDuffy-u3s]

My teacher played with a very flat hand, with almost no arch. He always told me, "you must develop your own style that works for you". Turns out my left hand is vastly different than my right, I simply cannot play with an arch in my right hand, but my left hand it's natural. Horowitz's technique was good for his hand shape, but very few people have such hands.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

That’s true! Good point

[@StanleyGrill]

Anyone interested in this, check out Abby Whiteside’s books, starting with Mastering the Chopin Etudes. Studies with one of her students rescued me from repeated bouts of tendonitis.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge!

[@anthonygrimaldi61]

I found your presentation absolutely fascinating and have shared it with my music loving friends. I like your approach which is professional, sincere, and generous and yet not overly pedantic. I wish to watch all of your videos. I am not a musician. In the context of this video, I would like to see you make additional videos on the technique of Cziffra and Michelangeli as there is abundant visual material to go on. Visual analysis as you did with Horowitz. How do Cziffra and Michelangeli "get away with it?" I whimsically pose this question, but there is some kinesthetic magic displayed in their performances. To repeat, I celebrate your physiological and orthopedic approach. I was unaware about Lang Lang's misfortune. Can you tell me more? Thank you for your refreshing and most educational efforts. Horowtiz once commented that he found Lang Lang's performances weird. Look who is talking.

[@sarakzite6946]

+1 for Cziffra please

[@arpeggiomikey]

Lang Lang was born in 1982, and was therefore only seven years old when Volodya passed in '89. It seems unlikely he would have heard him at all, let alone as a "weird" artist.... 🧐😬🎹💥

[@tarakb7606]

​@@arpeggiomikeyQuite!

[@MichaelKaykov]

An interesting tidbit is the piano used for that Horowitz 1967 filmed concert was actually a relatively new Steinway with a pretty sluggish action (according to the pianist who filled in for Horowitz for all the tedious camera tests). Horowitz loved that piano but eventually went back to his custom 1930’s flagship (that’s what he played in those filmed Moscow and Vienna performances).

[@pianissimist]

Many years ago, I read an interview with the Steinway technician responsible for Horowitz's piano. He remarked that he had to lighten the action so much that he found it hard to prevent notes from repeating after being struck.

[@MichaelKaykov]

@@pianissimistyeah apparently there were several pianos, but the 1930’s one with lots of custom adjustments (reversed after his death, alas) was probably the “light” one people refer to.

[@jowr2000]

How did he manage for so long without permanent injury?! Would love to hear your comments on Artur Rubinstein’s technique. It always looked so healthy, as did Alicia deLarrocha’s. And how about Gould!!! 😬

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

My personal suspicion, which unfortunately deeply offends some people here, is that he might have had some permanent injury of certain muscles which was the main reason for his peculiar technique in order to use alternative muscle groups, or maybe even dystonia.

[@jowr2000]

@@DenZhdanovPianist thx for your reply. I've often wondered if his absences from concertizing were due to physical injuries as well as other issues. My overall favorite pianist from the past was Rubinstein, not Horowitz although I was always amazed at the effects Horowitz got from the piano given his physical approach to the instrument. Again thx for the response. Much appreciated.