Lee said “Not one nanomachine is made from the chemicals on up but always from the engineer on down”. Exactly! Information takes an outside intelligence that is what we call God.
@gingerale77294 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂He destroys his own arguments
@ApistevistАй бұрын
James Tour is a joke and a fraud who got exposed time and time again. This is good data for people who should get the snip.
@rastaboogie4 жыл бұрын
Dr. James Tour is the man.
@nonprogrediestregredi17114 жыл бұрын
HOW exactly is he the man?
@derhafi4 жыл бұрын
He IS the man....If you ever want an example on how religion can poison a mind.
@ds5252524 жыл бұрын
Rob Davis Nice music collection. Gatekeeper was my favorite. 🤝☮️
@derhafi4 жыл бұрын
Tour surely is no dummy at all. No Sir. He is a very clever moron. Clever enough to convince other morons at least. Given that he does not bring pointed evidence, all he does is in fact criticising points he admittingly does not understand, refuting his major points is not that hard. His argument is basically: ”It is complex and we don’t exactly know how, particularly I cannot imagine how..…therefore God. “ It is demonstrably a long argument from ignorance, topped up with an baseless alternative without any explanatory powers. If you don’t agree with this conclusion, go back to the video and listen carefully. Science does not make claims of absolute truth. It provides the best possible explanation according to the available evidence. Tour knows that. He also knows that there is no empirical evidence that supports anything supernatural. He also should know that one does not solve a mystery by appealing to a bigger mystery. Yet, that is what he does. This brings us to his main pattern: He uses science ONLY when it suits him. His favourite lie is that disproving Evolution would be the same as proving God. All he does is criticising Evolution and suggesting an alternative that is indistinguishable from Magic. He uses the same kind of narrative here, with a bit of a twist on the origin of life. He criticises every honest naturalistic attempt to find an answer to this question and suggests Magic as an alternative. Careful as he is, circumnavigating a God claim as good as possible, ”God did it” is ultimately his conclusion that he draws for the origin of life and therefore the alternative he presents, this “alternative” is in fact, indistinguishable from Magic. He is clever enough not to take on the burden of prove. At least he can remember that, back from his days where he had scientific integrity. He goes on about the autocratic nature of the academic world; however, he fails to meet even the lowest standards for solid evidence when it comes to his proposal. Could the reason, why he never published anything in terms of an alternative to the naturalistic Abiogenesis, be, that the God Hypothesis, is backed up by nothing solid whatsoever? His entire scepticism seems to be reserved solely for the science that damages his deep believe in Jesus. It takes a certain respect and knowledge of the scientific method and systematic work; not only his own but that of generations of scientists who laid out the foundations for his work, which is responsible for his well-earned recognition as a chemist. Tour seems to have no problem with the scientific method as long as it suits him, and make no mistake, it is the scientific method he has to thank for his recognition and financial status, not the one day in 1977 when, driven by his bad conscience due to his massive amount of wanking back in the days, he “felt Jesus present” in the room with him. That’s it, that is all it took for him to split up his personality and henceforth use his scientific scepticism as, and only as, a convenience when needed to hold up this believe in God. As soon as any scientific work, no matter how often independently confirmed, is contradicting his religious believes, the BIG cherry picking begins. In no way am I saying “he doesn't know his shit”; I’m saying that there is an obvious and well documented pattern of him, ignoring shit he has to know, whenever it suites his bias. Tour is no different from anyone else when he tries to justify his irrational convictions with the rational method that is science. It, requires him to lie about, redefine and/or distort terms like “Rationality”, “Science”, “Scientific Consensus”, “Scientific Method “Evidence” and “Fact”... It further requires one to be ignorant of the staggering amount of evidence, which renders the supernatural as what it, is, wishful thinking. There are QAs with him, where he says that he cannot be sure how old the earth is, because he does not know how to check this numbers. It seems he spontaneously forgets how science works every time science contradicts his believes. These numbers have been checked 10s of thousands of times, by experts who’s goal it was to prove one another wrong, independently. That’s part of the scientific method. He knows that. The many different methods of radiometric dating is laid out for literally everyone to study. If I and everyone else have enough pull to go to any geological institute to see how it is done, surly so has he. He shows the same tortuous behaviour when asked about Noah’s Flood and Adam and Eve. He claims not to be able to say anything about this because he hasn’t read everything about it. He tries to come off as honest in that particular situation...and when addressing people with the same bias that works. What he really does is that he on one hand does not want to alienate his audience by being honest and saying that the flood and the story of Adam and Eve have no tights to reality, simultaneously he is avoiding the burden of prove by not clearly stating what he thinks: ”God did it”. As I mentioned before, that is his pattern: Science is good as long as it does not contradict his convictions. If so, he ignores all work that was ever done, in any field, and the fundamental method that lays beneath all scientific discoveries, the same method that made him the respected chemist that he is. Tour shows no intellectual integrity whatsoever. Someday I’ll take the time to dissect his claims about the impossibilities he goes on in chemical terms, I’m frankly just not there yet. Nonetheless, there are enough reasons so far to state this: Dr. James Tour is full of shit.
4 жыл бұрын
@Rob Davis looking forward to hearing your rebuttal, until then Tour 1 Cronin and yourself 0
@timothysparks6949 Жыл бұрын
It's funny how Jim was the only one who was asked about how his worldview--being a Christian--affects his work, and Lee wasn't asked how being an atheist affected his.
@kemicalhazard8770 Жыл бұрын
Because atheism (non belief) is not a faith, it is just blank, not believing.
@Ebonygazelle Жыл бұрын
@@kemicalhazard8770 You have to have incredible blind faith to believe that something came from nothing. A big bang - all from nothing. With no proof or demonstratable evidence of procesess. Repetition and reproducibility are required for something to be considered scientific. Evolution theory is not exempt. Even the atheistic philosopher Michael Ruse admits, “evolution is a form of religion” Both creationist and evolutionists have the same information just different interpretation of the same information presented. I love the civility of interactions between these two men.
@kemicalhazard8770 Жыл бұрын
@@Ebonygazelle Do all atheists believe that something came from nothing? No. Stop assuming all atheists are identical.
@Freethinkingtheist779 ай бұрын
@@kemicalhazard8770This is a popular view stemming from Antony Flew but it is patently false. Simply having a non-belief is agnosticism - literally 'without knowledge". If someone is a true atheist they take the positive position that there is no God - a view which is as open to scrutiny, and which affects how one engages the world, as much as any other.
@kemicalhazard87709 ай бұрын
That is not the real, actual definition atheism, but if you want to claim all atheists are what you would call "hard atheists" (actively claim there is no god) go ahead, but it's simply not true. The average atheist is simply not a beliver, while the average agnostic is not yet convinced of either position, but defined more rigorously as someone who does not think creator/god is knowable in the first place. I think you should learn the different forms of agnosticism/atheism before going "this is my definition and it's true of every single atheist in the world", overgeneralisation serves no one@@Freethinkingtheist77
@Arminius4202 жыл бұрын
This debate should've started with definitions of what is life and what is information in a biological context.
@x0rn3126 ай бұрын
I couldn't agree more.
@streetaware4 жыл бұрын
I would love to see / hear Jim Tour debate with Richard Dawkins, but I think Dawkins would avoid that at all costs.
@ahmedbebackup99444 жыл бұрын
Dawkins will never debate a true scientist. He prefers preaching to clueless fans.
@rodneynorfolk97374 жыл бұрын
dawkins is a loser. i have watched him and he is an asshole who insults everyone and never answers even simple questions
@GayorgVonTrapp4 жыл бұрын
When you get the big fish swimming through your patch the suckers all tend to follow and cling on. What a stupid comment. Richard Dawkins is pretty much on the same page as Dr Tour. I doubt you understand a word either of them say.
@GayorgVonTrapp4 жыл бұрын
Déjà Siku Your presentation of evidence as to your qualification in the subject matter in question has been duly noted.
@kevinrtres4 жыл бұрын
@@GayorgVonTrapp " I doubt you understand a word either of them say." Do you always insult the people you are interacting with? Is it really necessary? Or is it some mechanism you use to shore up or hide your lack of confidence in your subject knowledge? Either way it is totally unbecoming and simply a way to indicate that you need more practise expressing your point of view without rancor.
@andresbenavides17684 жыл бұрын
Oh my... "I don't even know if life really exists" That really struck me.
@lukidurer284 жыл бұрын
@Tim Webb Neither does the theist know ;)
@jimj90404 жыл бұрын
Tim Webb “Beyond all possibility of doubt”. People like you scare the crap out of me.
@jimj90404 жыл бұрын
Tim Webb Ha...it’s not only what I need, but what you need to know. You draw battle lines when you have no ability to negotiate. You will lose by the way.
@AsixA64 жыл бұрын
@Tim Webb _"We are not theists"_ So, you don't believe supposed "Jesus" is/was a supposed "god" in the flesh. Got it. _"so we certainly do know,"_ Because a book said so. AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! Too funny.
@AsixA64 жыл бұрын
@Tim Webb Was that supposed to mean something?
@JanBoshoff Жыл бұрын
At 26 mins Lee Cronin says you can't have information without life. Does he understand that he is proving the requirement for a creator and disproving his own standpoint of life happening spontaneously? Living beings, even the most basic living cell, contains information, which could only come from life... This is a spectacular own goal IMO
@borneandayak6725 Жыл бұрын
Dr. James Tour is really fascinating.
@mcmanustony Жыл бұрын
No he isn’t. He’s simply a lying religious zealot whose fanaticism infects every aspect of his dealings with other scientists
@arnoldvezbon6131 Жыл бұрын
@@mcmanustony What a fanatical statement you made. I guess atheist also don't believe in irony.
@mcmanustony Жыл бұрын
@@arnoldvezbon6131 your inability to engage with the facts I posted without bigoted nonsense is duly noted. Why can’t you handle it being pointed out the fact that Tour is a relentless and incorrigible liar?
@lieshtmeiser5542 Жыл бұрын
@@arnoldvezbon6131 "What a fanatical statement you made." Wtf?
@arnoldvezbon6131 Жыл бұрын
@@lieshtmeiser5542 yes atheist are fanatical quite often. Verry angry and unpleasant.
@troymason47994 жыл бұрын
This is what its like talking to lee “How did life arise?” Lee - We dont know what life is” “Well lets use biology’s definition of life” Lee- We dont even know what biology is. “Then how do we talk about anything without knowing what anything is?” Lee-You really cant talk about anything because when you do and use a scientific definition then your creating a narrative” “ So where do we go from here?” Lee- Lets talk about my narrative”
@gregormann74 жыл бұрын
Troy Mason - Brilliant!
@troymason47994 жыл бұрын
gregormann7 lol. Its very annoying talking to people like that because they literally go in circles and just generalize everything.
@hotrodroy1114 жыл бұрын
Well put!
4 жыл бұрын
that this man is one of the leading scientists in his field scares me. The dude needs to take a introductory course in philosophy.
@hotrodroy1114 жыл бұрын
Ciência e Filosofia exactly
@theinvincibledud36704 жыл бұрын
Lee says he doesn't know what life is, but he's confident he will someday create it in his lab!
@ghenadi753 жыл бұрын
He leaves and ditches all parameters of life, he turns away from "old" definitions of life and he even doubts if consciousness is a real thing. Such reductionism reminds me of going back to the cave or to the land of unicorns.
@FREDAFMK3 жыл бұрын
🤭
@lederereddy3 жыл бұрын
The invincible dud. Lee has had success creating and delivering life in his lavatory. He found it crawling around on the poop he brewed in his lab.
@lederereddy3 жыл бұрын
@@ghenadi75 Lee's a blatant hypocrite if he thinks denying there's design in life, and, or machinery in living cellular organisms is coherent. There is no question where all biological evidence points to. And it isn't demonstrable self-assembly.
@justinshadrach8293 жыл бұрын
I think that means when hes found a chemical reaction thats sophisticate enough, he can say "this is life, no one can argue because they have ni definitiin of life...... So basically like the words men and women today, he will redefine Life.
@samuelzalipsky76299 ай бұрын
Lee stated around 25 min into the video that "we don't know what life is". Yet around 27 min into the video he stated that he will make life in his lab in about 5 year. Tour relied on the common 5 or so characteristics of life (requirement for energy, self replication, information and being able to store and pass this info to the offspring, etc.). In the absence of a common definition of what life is how can we debate the "Origin of Life?"
@fjccommish5 ай бұрын
He always says 3-5 years. A decade ago, he claimed 3-5 years. He keeps kicking the can down the road. He keeps getting funded.
@seblutzer18 күн бұрын
Well... here we are 4 years late, and I'm reading his papers, and there is no sign of life in the next year...
@renatosantana53672 жыл бұрын
Just by getting them together in your was already a BIG move! Congratulations for this great interview/debate.
@TheKuya284 жыл бұрын
Jim: Show me how. Cronin: We don't know yet, but I'm sure we'll get there some day. Talk about God of the GAPS.
@email2hector4 жыл бұрын
Yes its evolution of the gaps now.
@erikgalindo7104 жыл бұрын
If you had asked someone in the Bronze Age how thunder originate, he would not have known it. Now we know. Back then you needed a magician to explain this phenomenon, but today this explanation is only ridiculous.
@Drojanx4 жыл бұрын
@Anthony Maurice controlled to replicate early earth condition, you left out vital information, typical.
@erikgalindo7104 жыл бұрын
@Anthony Maurice That is completely irrelevant, because it happened. If there is no creator, then it must have happened in spite of the low probability. If a creator helped out we would still need to prove there was a creator at that time that was capable to do something that supposedly can't happen naturally. As far as I know there is no formula that calculates the probability for that.
@erikgalindo7104 жыл бұрын
@Anthony Maurice No, it wouldn't. It would only show that we can replicate things that happen naturally. You must remain in total delusion, it's all you can do.
@kjustkses4 жыл бұрын
“If I find information, then I know that a living thing put it there” Is Lee arguing for intelligent design now?
@emiblux984 жыл бұрын
Thats what I heard...
@rickhuntling73384 жыл бұрын
I picked up on that also. The paper with writing proves a life. The creator's medium is the pages of life in every living cell, DNA.
@aidan-ator78444 жыл бұрын
@AnarchoRepublican I would say that intelligent design in relation to life is a pretty bad argument for God but I would say that all the complex rules and laws that allow for enormous amounts of complexity in this universe or any other universe are pretty decent.
@ExtantFrodo24 жыл бұрын
@@rickhuntling7338 Your "creator" has been busy copying bad designs and DNA errors with a vengeance (but only in the same nested hierarchy we expect from descent with modification.
@rickhuntling73384 жыл бұрын
@@ExtantFrodo2 the curse of sin caused HIM to make the monifications in a perfect design. The chance for life out of chaos is 10 to the 184th power. You haven't the time, matter nor the events in the visable universe for it to happen, LOL. Logic, statistics and science is in my corner not yours.
@MortenBendiksen Жыл бұрын
"I don't know if life really exists". Wow. That's honest. No many people actually are able to express the implications of their world view so clearly. I respect that. But it also is insane, of course.
@forrest7050 Жыл бұрын
Not so insane if you consider "life" as diluted somewhere amongst the unbroken continuum between inorganic chemicals and complex life bound together by energy. The boundaries between life and non life are being seen as more and more blurred, there is no separation. Some aspects of non life share elements that we recognise in living things, and some elements of living things are present in non living. It is only Humans that give life and non life separate identities. It is the same as saying "elephants don't exist. An Elephant is simply an animal that is part and parcel of the whole spectrum of life. It is only humans that give it the name "elephant", and we do this simply so that we have a way to classify it in our minds, and give it an individual identity in order to fit it in to our human made classification of mammals. In reality of course elephants cannot be separated from the continuum, they are part and parcel of the whole, All living and non living things are including Humans. If life and non life are a continuum , how can anyone say where life becomes a separate identity from non life? Perhaps it is more insane to say they are separate things.
@BiigTitties11 ай бұрын
Just a thought but can you explain when the agency of life begins from non sentient matter.
@forrest705011 ай бұрын
@@BiigTitties No, it is impossible to define the moment "When" There is nothing special about sentiency. Its evolution , again just like life itself is on a continuum, closely toed to the evolution of different sense organs and consciousness, so the origins are blurred. it is not an important characteristic of living things. It is important to Humans , of course, because we have a well developed self-consciousness, but I am not so sure sentiency is of particular importance to a Hydra or amoeba.
@chrisdistant904011 ай бұрын
If you consider that life consists of a bunch of molecules (ie not life) the line gets blurry, and it is not unreasonable to argue that if “life” as a term is meaningless if we can find a whole spectrum of phenomena with similar characteristics. Also it becomes hard to draw the line - where does “just molecules” end and “life” begin? If this distinction is arbitrary, the whole term “life” becomes arbitrary as well.
@forrest705011 ай бұрын
@@chrisdistant9040 Exactly, well said. And this is why the origin of life is a natural progression from non life.
@m.andasol98429 ай бұрын
Everything can be explained by science!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂another 6,000 years and this guy will get it right I can't wait to heart it😂😂😂
@VirtuelleWeltenMitKhan6 ай бұрын
says a guy using the internet
@jw-yr4lj4 жыл бұрын
Lee is forced to redefine life so that it's creation can be claimed. How often atheists do this.
@Software.Engineer4 жыл бұрын
@Apostate James had the current definition of what life is. All he says is how far are we from creating the cell
@MasterChief-sl9ro4 жыл бұрын
@Apostate No he didn't.. It was Lee Cronin that stated Life started out simple. So stop projecting that claim on James Tour. As All James Tour did was make Lee Cronin define what he means by life. That is why Lee Cronin had to back peddle on his previous claims. That he had made. As Lee Cronin is trying to redefine the word Life. As not one sane person can produce Organic Living cells from Non Organic Chemicals. It's been tried for the last 80 years. Why Lee Cronin should be ashamed for peddling that shit. As he even admitted. He used Processed Chemicals. That have been produced void of any contaminates or impurities. Which does not even exist in the Universe. Why I will be watching any claims he makes from now on. As that shit gets printed in papers. Then the lay person has no clue what it means. They just "Believe them" As they are "Scientist" Which pisses me off. It gives Science a bad name. When they get caught. As Deception is the worst of all Scientific Sins. Why we peer review their claims. So others can reproduce it. To see if they are lying..
@lomaschueco4 жыл бұрын
@Apostate Why don't you ask for a chance to debate and correct him? Oh. Right. I forgot you're one of the comment section scholars who couldn't make sense of Young Goodman Brown yet here you are correcting a world class scientist. You're funny.
@lomaschueco4 жыл бұрын
@Apostate See, you're funny. Thanks for the laugh!
@rovidius20064 жыл бұрын
@@MasterChief-sl9ro People pay good money for stories and comfort care , that's where it starts , nothing else matters ,science is purely incidental.
@linusloth41454 жыл бұрын
If Lee Cronin succeeded one day, all that he would prove is that intelligent design works ;)
@briemuss054 жыл бұрын
Linus Loth 100%correct
@He.knows.nothing4 жыл бұрын
Lol good point, however, it would still raise the probability of abiogenesis occurring and it would mean that once again, supernatural explanations are not necessary.
@linusloth41454 жыл бұрын
@@He.knows.nothing You cannot replicate a historical event. That is why you will never prove abiogenesis beyond any doubt. Your arbitrary and imaginary probability signifies nothing. If a theist says, God created through natural means, a naturalist has nothing to answer except his personal feelings. In this case some/every natural effect had a supernatural cause which renders the natural/supernatural divide void.
@He.knows.nothing4 жыл бұрын
@@linusloth4145 you're right, even if abiogenesis is proven to be possible it does not prove that abiogenesis is how life arose here specifically. But if we have an explanation that comports to the laws of physics and chemistry, why would you not favor that in opposition to an explanation that directly defies the laws of physics and nature?? We don't have to be certain for us to favor theories that actually comport to our reality. This is why we still study multiverse and strung theory even though they are presently just as unfalsifiable as an argument for an infinite and external deity.
@YotYotFive4 жыл бұрын
That's a silly argument. Humans can design experiments to simulate the conditions of the natural world. Scientists can already create synthetic life - the point of Lee's research is to investigate _how life could have arisen_ in an early earth.
@steveclemons8191 Жыл бұрын
I think that calling Dr Tour a pessimist is not as accurate as calling him a realist. He wants to see something real in the science not just hope and pretending. He sees how complex a living cell is and knows we are nowhere close to it, and he just calls it as it is. He applauds someone involved in working on their passion. Great! Best wishes to you! Just don’t pretend that what has been accomplished is something more than what it really is. Also don’t let the press or some scientists hype it up to something that it really isn’t. Recognize progress for what it is, and what it is not.
@mcmanustony Жыл бұрын
A living cell is the product of 4.3 billion years of evolution. Cells at the emergence of life were not as complex. Tour routinely shows the complexity of a eukaryotic cell and screams that it couldn’t have emerged without his god. The first cells were not eukaryotic. Tour is a malignant lying fanatic. You have been fooled
@mcmanustony Жыл бұрын
Can you specifically identify some of the scientists “pretending”? Can you cite some of the peer reviewed research you thing has been “hyped”? Spoiler alert: I think you’re full of shit and haven’t a fucking clue what you’re talking about.
@arnoldvezbon6131 Жыл бұрын
@@mcmanustony "A living cell is the product of 4.3 billion years of evolution." this claim is not substantiated by any science. "Tour routinely shows the complexity of a eukaryotic cell and screams that it couldn’t have emerged without his god." You are misquoting him here. he says that the most basic cell needs DNA and this has not been shown to be created by any means that science can explain. "Tour is a malignant lying fanatic." You are the malignant fanatic like most rabid atheists. "You have been fooled" No you have.
@lauramann8275 Жыл бұрын
@@mcmanustony we know exactly how complex the first cells were. not as complex as today but theyre still complex. Complex enough that science cannot create one. I do believe Cronin gave up trying. He has said ool science is a scam and there are many layers to the scam.
@mcmanustony Жыл бұрын
@@lauramann8275 you know how complex the first cell was? EXACTLY?? How the hell did you find that out? It’s been puzzling leading scientists for generations. Nature with all the forces available took about 700,000,000 years and you are bleating that science hasn’t accomplished it in one one millionth of that time….good grief…
@randomuser63062 жыл бұрын
"I haven't made life in my lab yet but I will " Hahahahahahah
@raphaelfeneje4862 ай бұрын
😂😂
4 жыл бұрын
Lee - "I am perhaps more humble than Jim". Tells you everything you need to know about Lee's massive ego.
@AsixA64 жыл бұрын
Yes, that it's not as massive as Tour's.
@AsixA64 жыл бұрын
@Martyr4JesusTheChrist WTF? That makes Tour gullible, not humble, dipshit.
@shaunphelan97604 жыл бұрын
I great preacher once said I never met a humble man that claimed to be humble.
@AsixA64 жыл бұрын
@@shaunphelan9760 Did that same preacher also tell you a guy came back from a few days dead and you need to believe that idiocy or you'll burn in a supposed place called "hell"?
@AsixA64 жыл бұрын
@Martyr4JesusTheChrist Oh no!!! The invisible magician believer was mean to me! What will I ever do? lol Get a grip, dipstick. _"But hey, we should trust you over Tour right?"_ Depends on the subject. Regarding the topic of this video, I trust Cronin far more than the gullible moron that's out of his field and thinks an invisible magician abracadabra'd life into existence.
@rjonesx4 жыл бұрын
The issue is really clear: High school chem/bio says prebiotic soup, energy, time = life. However, as Tour pointed out, those connections don't exist. We need reasons to believe that the sum of those things equal life
@totalityofscripture10014 жыл бұрын
Please Complete All Fields and just what is the (let me get your quote exactly right here)...”best empirical falsifiable evidence for OOL” because Dr. Tour is not claiming God here?? He’s actually said we have “no clue” how abiogenesis happened and therefore void of any empirical falsifiable evidence. I’ve watched Dr. Tour’s presentations and even in this video he says he doesn’t argue for God or ID because there’s no mechanism to test it. So give us the best piece of evidence that’s empirical and falsifiable for abiogenesis. My guess is that Dr. Tour’s already addressed the best evidence either in video or in writing.
@totalityofscripture10014 жыл бұрын
Please Complete All Fields just going to address the first paragraph for now. I believe Dr. Tour has addressed Miller-Urey and it’s errors so it’s not that empirical after all. So if that’s the best we have then that’s way short of absolute evidence. This is why Dr. Tour discusses this exact experiment in every one of his presentations. Maybe you should try to listen to some of them since he’s one of the most accomplished synthetic organic chemists on the planet. Yes OOL is an active field with many hypotheses but a hypothesis is a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of LIMITED evidence as a starting point for further investigation. It’s an idea and nothing more. Notice the use of the words (may, possibly, potential, could, probably) when reading most of the “settled science” literature.
@TheLamboman6404 жыл бұрын
Please Complete All Fields Tour has already destroyed miller-urey. I suggest you read up on Dr Tour as he has brilliantly laid out the case of how there is zero evidence for the origin of life by natural processes. The traditional elementary story of a primordial pond, chemical reactions, and billions of years creating life is as silly as the tooth fairy and santa claus. Aliens is a better and more plausible theory at this point than this bubbling broth children’s story of prebiotic soup.
@TheLamboman6404 жыл бұрын
Juno Donat good, glad we agree. Because your belief is magical. No, it is not more plausible that somehow it started out simple, and somehow it became complex. “Somehow” and “nature nudged” along the process are not scientific. Produce an actual scientific theory, which no know has done. So believing that somehow it all happened by fantastic chance is magic and ludicrous
@TheLamboman6404 жыл бұрын
Juno Donat ID is NOT a form of creationism. Both are very different. Creationism takes the Bible as the ultimate authority while ID does not. ID is purely scientific in nature arriving to the conclusion that there must be an intelligent supernatural being. Creationism does not come from a scientific background, though science and the Bible widely overlap and agree. You can claim all you want that we have seen the development of the basic building blocks, but no we havent. DR James Tour talks about this very thing. I am much more inclined to believe a world renowned synthetic organic chemist than some guy on a youtube chat room. Especially when Tour actively invites other chemists to critique his work and his claims. I have yet to see or hear ANYONE refute him. Nice try tho
@selvinaguilar77672 жыл бұрын
Dr. Lee actually made a great case for intelligent design.
@mcmanustony Жыл бұрын
No he didn't. He rejects ID.....along with virtually every scientist on earth.
@kfgabriele9852 Жыл бұрын
Yes, it certainly sounded like it.
@mcmanustony Жыл бұрын
@@kfgabriele9852 no, it didn't. Try LISTENING.
@kfgabriele9852 Жыл бұрын
@@mcmanustony An all caps word?! Such an objective critique definitely means I’m wrong about Cronin explaining that information, especially complex information generated by an intelligent mind, is the hallmark of life. 🙄
@mcmanustony Жыл бұрын
@@kfgabriele9852 He rejects the pseudo science of ID. This is an objective fact. You are wrong.
@creedsc13999 ай бұрын
Thanks to the host, remarkable performance, very professional.
@danieljohnston37084 жыл бұрын
Jim: Show me the evidence. Lee: I'm not interested in narratives, and here's my narrative.
@edit88264 жыл бұрын
"Lee: I'm not interested in narratives, and here's my narrative." - I missed the narrative section that you say Lee gave. Please give us the TC for that. Try 39:25...
@spalding19684 жыл бұрын
Edit 88 hello again . What would be easier is if you can point to any part of this KZbin discussion where lee points to evidence that he can demonstrate shows how life came from or even might have come from through natural processes . My take on lees entire discourse was a search for a law or set of laws to show how this could come about but I did not see any evidence to support his narrative . If I missed it please point to it . The salt illustration he talked about is clearly not evidence of how life came about . It’s an example of increased complexity with some story telling . Complexity itself is not life . Tour made the point that he could drop some olive oil in a mixture and get a reaction . The mixture is now undoubtedly more complex however it is not life . The chemical reaction might look like it’s moving similar to life but it is not life . The equations he said he had almost completed are not evidence of how life might have come about . It’s still a theory . Not evidence . Evidence is the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. Please point to the evidence that Lee produced in this hour plus long discussion about the origin of life ( of which he is the expert ) that you think he provided .
@spalding19684 жыл бұрын
Edit 88 if lee can’t explain the evidence upon which he believes he can show how life may have evolved in an hour plus discussion, with another scientist begging him to do so , then I very much doubt he has actual evidence . Tour said show me the evidence and the mechanism . Lee said that at the Big Bang we had simple molecules and then during a period of bombardment , we saw more complex chemicals and then after a few million years we have simple life . I listened carefully as Tour did and did not hear the evidence or the mechanism. I heard story telling and narrative . If I missed it or you heard it in the presentation please point to it . I doubt reading his 300 plus peer reviewed papers will help much and no one has the time to do it . To sum up , I heard not a single shred of evidence to demonstrate that natural forces /laws alone can produce life .
@danieljohnston37084 жыл бұрын
@@spalding1968 Well said
@pwharman4 жыл бұрын
Are you being deliberately disingenuous @Pro Baller? Cronin clearly said he couldn't "prove" the origin of life on Earth, and that no-one could, 42:25. He says he may understand how life can emerge. There is a massive difference.
@arenjamir13714 жыл бұрын
James Tour,Man of wisdom & Knowledge.True Christian.👍
@kennym34924 жыл бұрын
Aren jamir true delusionist. Sickening to be honest friend
@Raydensheraj4 жыл бұрын
First a Jew, then a Christian...I call that Religious hustler.
@simclimie60454 жыл бұрын
@@Raydensheraj Nonsense...making claims without evidence...this man gives his story about his change by giving his Life to the Prophecied Risen Messiah Jesus...
@simclimie60454 жыл бұрын
@@kennym3492 Nonsense...
@simclimie60454 жыл бұрын
@@kennym3492 Dr. James Tour is in the Top 50 scientists in the world...so stop with the nonsense
@rduse412510 ай бұрын
Both men seem sincere, that’s refreshing.
@andreaurelius45 Жыл бұрын
Jim Tour makes them admit THEY DON'T KNOW....that's great. It takes the wind out of people who "Know Everything"
@mcmanustony Жыл бұрын
What a stupid, ignorant comment. NO ONE in the OoL field claims to have solved the problem of life's origin and NO ONE needs the lying fanatic James Tour to "make" them do anything. Tour's legacy will not be his actual work, in which his drooling supporters have ZERO interest- his legacy will be those supporters: his claque of braying, science hating morons.
@andreaurelius45 Жыл бұрын
@@mcmanustony aparently you haven't noticed the apathy around you. ....they present the subject as open and shut. And in the process, they diminish the true value of the treasure that is life. A gift from GOD, to all.
@mcmanustony Жыл бұрын
@@andreaurelius45 you are a liar. You couldn’t name a single scientist making any such claim. Try not to tell such stupid lies- you’ll feel less dirty.
@mcmanustony Жыл бұрын
@@andreaurelius45 Still waiting....WHO exactly makes the claim you claim they make? Who is "they"? You haven't a fucking clue, do you? You are just parroting that lying clown you drool over. You know as much about OoL as you do the contents of my fridge. A perfect example of Tour's cult. Ignorant, lying cheerleaders for The Great One. I don't suppose it ever occurred to you to actually open a book on this subject? Written, not by a lying hysterical fanatic, but by an actual scientist who actually does actual work in this field? Shame on you. Do better.
@joeross65234 жыл бұрын
Cronin says he's not sure that life exists. Then wants me to listen to him explain not where it came from but where it didn't come from.🤔
@philipmcclure62732 жыл бұрын
Yes. He is certain that there is no god. It seems to me that the concepts he defends so circuitously have no foundation by his own admission.
@windigo0002 жыл бұрын
@@philipmcclure6273 and god hypothesis is supported by existence of so many gods. there atheists :D
@kingwillie2062 жыл бұрын
If that’s what you got out of what he said you’re in way over your head. He said we have evidence for the origin of life, but we don’t know exactly how the chemicals interacted to form it. Then he went on to explain from where the chemicals originated and subsequently evolved. When you have proof of concept you don’t need 100% of the information to make certain inferences.
@andrewthomas4636 Жыл бұрын
@@kingwillie206 no. Lol. I can create a concept then use the evidence to support the concept. It is called circular reasoning. Having evidence for a concept is really easy for any concept
@kingwillie206 Жыл бұрын
@@andrewthomas4636 - What type of evidence exactly? I am referring to scientific evidence.
@zorot38764 жыл бұрын
This is not a debate. James is like a patient adult talking to a recalcitrant four year old.
@AsixA64 жыл бұрын
Oop! Fixed it for ya! _"Lee is like a patient adult talking to a recalcitrant four year old."_
@PicoGirl4 жыл бұрын
@@AsixA6 Lee is deceptively trying to convince everyone of his Logical Fallacy of Division to equate the parts 'non-life' with the whole 'life'. Even saying the parts of life are also life is a lie. He is trying to change the goal using a Fallacy of Division and re-definition. However the evidence we get in the real world through science is what exists as life from observable things and then we define it. Lee is saying 'this thing I create in my lab is going to be life' when he can't even prove it is a part of the recognized scientific view of life. He is making up a story and then trying to convince everyone 'this little bit of life over hear' is actually life itself. That's a Fallacy of Division, where Lee says this little part of life is equal to the whole characteristic of life.
@wallyjude34 жыл бұрын
Lee Cronin seems to be totally oblivious to the fact he is working on creating a cell through intelligent input which is contrary to the concept of the spontaneous origin of life.
@AsixA64 жыл бұрын
@@PicoGirl False. That's not what Lee is stating so, you're committing a strawman fallacy. Do you understand that you are completely made up of non-living parts? There is not a single atom in your entire body that is alive. _"Lee says this little part of life is equal to the whole characteristic of life."_ False. Try listening to what he's saying rather than what you want him to have said.
@AsixA64 жыл бұрын
@@wallyjude3 You seem totally oblivious to the fact that we're just trying to figure out how non-living matter can become alive. You claim magic is required. Rational people don't.
@rac7773 Жыл бұрын
Love you, Dr. Tour!!!
@steveclemons8191 Жыл бұрын
Around minute 25 Dr Cronin sounds like an Intelligent design advocate
@tehdreamer4 жыл бұрын
This channel is so good! Happy to see Dr Tour and Prof Cronin talking publicly!
@shots-shots-shotseverybody27072 жыл бұрын
Yeah in a dream world we would get to see more debates but after the pour performance of the Brit and how Jim made the Brit grab his own ankles pretty much the second half of the debate the less we will see atheists want to debate knowing they will get shredded
@SpanishwithNeena4 жыл бұрын
Yep...when Lee said, "We don't really know what life is..." his argument was dead in the water. Then he said, "I haven't made life in the lab, but I will." What? You'll make life in your lab, but YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT LIFE IS. You cannot put forth an argument about origin of life if you cannot even define what life is.
@stegemme4 жыл бұрын
so we use quantum theory all the time but we don't 'know' what it is. We use heat engines and other energy systems ruled by thermo-dynamics but we don't 'know' what that is. What will you do if Lee Cronin is successful, even if he doesn't 'know' what life is ...
@SpanishwithNeena4 жыл бұрын
@@stegemme Yes, I agree that, for example, we can't say exactly what energy or gravity is, yet there are characteristics that define these things. But he claims that he WILL make life in his lab. Without some kind of criteria, some parameters or description of life, the whole enterprise is ludicrous. What WILL he make?
@spalding19684 жыл бұрын
GodCan and how will he know what he made ( if he makes anything of substance )is in fact life ?
@stegemme4 жыл бұрын
@@SpanishwithNeena but there is some criteria. Smolin makes his statement about not knowing in the sense of there not being a consensus for the level he is working at. Remember that he has made some proposals which have been accepted by NASA for their exploratory program. He will make something, others will decide if it's life
@johnpatmos17224 жыл бұрын
@@stegemme One can at least begin with a definition of what life is? Absent a definition, if even tentative, you have no hypothesis round which to build your experimentation. So it would seem.
@GaryBrown-ok5ex6 ай бұрын
Saying that one is getting closer to discovering the “origin of life” is like saying Usain Bolt is getting closer to the speed of light.
@VirtuelleWeltenMitKhan6 ай бұрын
I love the fact that religious people are motivating others to push even further. In a sense Tour is one little part of understanding the origins of life. Beautiful.
@Sensorium193 жыл бұрын
Cronin: "That information on the paper is as much alive as you are." "We don't actually know what life is." This is a variety of pseudo post-modern obscurantism that I find quite repellent. It reminds me of the old joke, "How does a mathematician put a lion into a cage? He climbs into the cage and redefines the inside as the outside and the outside as the inside."
@sharkbite4363 жыл бұрын
The definition of life in academia will be an endless debate. Inevitably it has to unify humankind, the animal kingdom, plant kingdom, and bacterial kingdom etc. To define life would be a cause of catastrophe for moral cultural dogma. The cultural dogma--> social darwinism The vector of this problem is, is life important? Creationist would conclude yes, pro-life etc. Soc. Darwinism *could* conclude maybe not, life is random chemical synthesis became life and needs to be artificially selected.
@Summitic3 жыл бұрын
That's a very interesting joke !
@Summitic3 жыл бұрын
@@sharkbite436 read the previous comment you indoctrinated fool ! There is a joke in the comment . Have you taken off your pampers yet ??
@sharkbite4363 жыл бұрын
@@Summitic sorry I thought you were replying to me. No need for such rude behavior. It was a funny joke.
@Youtube_Stole_My_Handle_Too3 жыл бұрын
Lee Cronin is simply too weak in the field of evolutionary biology to get on the offensive in a debate. In fact, everybody is too weak. Evolutionary biology has come a long way, but still has too many holes to fill before being ready for criticism. It's always easier to be a skeptic. Even with only shallow understanding of the topic, a skeptic can destroy many life time researchers - because science is hard. Any science is hard to redeem up against a rigorous theory of science. To stand up against criticism it is not enough that to have a lot of stand alone published papers of research that points in the direction that life can happen spontaneously. You need a model. Not necessarily a complete one, but broad enough to cover the most problematic aspects of getting from synthetic chemistry to biologic chemistry. This is specially hard in evolutionary biology because the processes may need million years. The only tool to speed up the processes is to idealize natural processes in a lab. It's a tall order to find controlled processes to get from million years down to days which probably is the challenge if you're going to produce a working model in a life time. Even when we finally are able to do this, we will not beat a man of faith. Faith allows him to resort to god even when god is not needed by this simple argument (not a valid one, but faith isn't limited by logic) "god may not be needed in all evolutionary biology, but certainly the one we're living in because this is special". You can never beat a man allowed to lapse to the laziness of faith. It's odd that a man of faith finds it necessary to fight science. Even on the day we've got a complete oversight of our reality and can explain everything by natural processes - even how nothingness can produce _somethingness_ still faith can live well. This is how lazy and pathetic faith is - it's the lowest standard of them all. It does demand nothing of itself. If you can say you believe, faith wins. The point of science isn't to beat faith, but to make life better (pun well intended).
@yearight12054 жыл бұрын
I love Dr James Tour and his work, he's awesome!
@Express.Yourself7 ай бұрын
So you love pseudoscience and confirmation bias *OK, that says a lot about the current state of the world, pure decadency*
@josecontreras84887 ай бұрын
And you are do not understand science because Jame is liar .
Comedy. Can’t wait to see how wrong he is in 10 years!
@markoconnell804 Жыл бұрын
This is the root of wokism… this is why a Supreme Court judge who is a woman has no idea what a woman is. Think about this. Supreme Court judge - not kidding here. A judge who does not know how to define their own gender by definition is not qualified to judge anything as her basis of who she is is beyond her.
@markoconnell804 Жыл бұрын
Wow Lee’s defense after stating he does not know how first life began is other field’s of science with just our current understanding which can change and has in the past. We know it happened because we trust these scientist in other fields of study. This is how we know ours is correct. /facepalm. I wished Lee could hear himself.
@andrewthomas4636 Жыл бұрын
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂💀🤦♂️
@madmax2976 Жыл бұрын
It was a very interesting conversation and its good that they seemed to resolve some issues. Then Lee made the off hand statement, "I don't think consciousness exists" and my mind went, "WTF? What just participated in this discussion if it wasn't a consciousness???" All I can think of is that he meant something by consciousness other than what we actually experience. Down another rabbit hole we go I guess.
@axderka Жыл бұрын
Cronin would then be speaking outside of his expertise. Take his opinion on that with a grain of salt.
@AnnemieM Жыл бұрын
@@briansheely3474 You don't know where James's view came from at all. When I studied about all the stuff that a cell does, it convinced me, that there is intelligent outside of the brain. Just because people are believers of God, does not mean that you could no ever change their views. The reason that most people believe in a ' bigger ' intelligence is that no one can prove otherwise. Even a cell is more complicated than anyone ever imagined. Learning about how complicated a cell is, is enough to strengthen peoples' believes and many start to believe even stronger in something bigger than man's intelligent.
@Bledoston11 ай бұрын
I think most atheistic scientists will at some point in their life start understanding that conciousness cant possibly be real because the only solution to their dilemma is that conciousness is not real.
@madmax297611 ай бұрын
@@Bledoston Except that's obviously not true. Some might claim that "it" doesn't exist, but others will claim that while it exists, it isn't what we experience it to be. It really depends on what is meant by "consciousness". That doesn't seem to be any less accurate than the claim it was zapped into existence by a magical being and rests upon a supernatural essence called a "soul"
@Bledoston11 ай бұрын
You have the burden of proof. Show to me that consciousness is real and I will believe you.@@briansheely3474
@jimstair64944 жыл бұрын
Next you need to add Dr. John Sanford to this discussion. He wrote a book called “Genetic Entropy” in which he points out that that all functioning genomes deteriorate through mutation and move toward extinction rather than increased information and complexity.
@46oranges7 ай бұрын
Yes, more proven nails in the coffin of evolution.
@tmrv29743 ай бұрын
@@46oranges Sanford is a fraud. And his paper has been debunked by scientists actually doing the work.
@davidmauro8947Ай бұрын
Earth isn't a closed system. Entropy is not a factor.
@tmrv2974Ай бұрын
@@jimstair6494 Genetic entropy is nonsense.
@nicolassbrown98814 жыл бұрын
Every argument Lee Cronin puts forward is rooted in evasion - he has the artifice of a politician.
@alandela63304 жыл бұрын
NICOLAS S BROWN - and so he must. He needs those tax dollars.
@stevensu88374 жыл бұрын
@Paul Morgan yes and that was lee trying to prove that in order for life to exist it must be created and he is doing it in his lab.
@AvNotasian4 жыл бұрын
@@stevensu8837 "This man is proving intelligent design by recreating a murky pool during the precambrian", ah yes this little flat earther argument. I guess gravity doesn't exist because people are involved in its measurement. This argument is ridiculous, what he is doing is recreating past conditions on the planet, which according to you means life was "created" as a product of the natural laws of the universe, or in quick short words life occurs naturally in this universe without the need for a magic man in the sky.
@AvNotasian4 жыл бұрын
@Trolltician Im sorry do you think lee is creating a new law of physics or do you think he is measuring how the current laws of physics work on a chemical solution analogous to that on the early earth? - Prove that lee created a new physical law or shut up.
@AvNotasian4 жыл бұрын
@Trolltician The analogy involving a car would be "do you think a pile of carparts with strong magnets that only attach to the part they are supposed to would pull together if you jostle them." You have no idea what you are talking about. - Tour openly admits he doesn't have any disagreements with evolution, and he is not a researcher into the origin of life so his opinions on the matter are equally irrelevant.
@drummersagainstitk2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Dr. Tour. A man will walk straight into hell with conviction than to bow his head.
@derhafi2 жыл бұрын
How did you conclude that "hell" exists?
@drummersagainstitk2 жыл бұрын
How do you conclude it doesn't exist?
@derhafi2 жыл бұрын
@@drummersagainstitk With hell, it is the same as it is with all other supposingly supernatural things...I have no reason to believe they do exists due to the lack of evidence that would sustain the claim that they do. Basically, I don't believe in hell for the same reasons you don't believe in elves, goblins and unicorns. They have no demonstrable correaltion with reality whatsoever. NOw that I answered your question: How did you conclude that "hell" exists?
@drummersagainstitk2 жыл бұрын
@@derhafi Hell exists right here on Earth right now in temporal reality. Those like you who don't believe it are the ones who created it, defend it and then deny it. Move on Gen Z
@derhafi2 жыл бұрын
@@drummersagainstitk "Hell exists right here on Earth right now in temporal reality" Does it have an adress...can you point me to it....Sorry but just because you believe it, does not make it true. Hell, like goblins, only exists in the mind of those who believe in it.
@someone616211 ай бұрын
Brilliant discussion! Thank you to Prem Unbelievable, Prof Lee Cronin and Prof James Tour!! This is how scientists should critique each others work to progress science and society!!!
@YellowBrother11 ай бұрын
James Tour didn't criticize anything, he just moved the goal post over and over to protect the bible.
@someone616211 ай бұрын
@@YellowBrother That is the most ridiculous statement!! Dr James Tour is renown scientist who is asking some very important questions in the field of Origin of Life!! Any scientist worth his weight in gold would ask those questions as they are foundational questions to the problem we are trying to solve!!! At no stage did Dr James Tour even mention anything about the bible that is directly related to this discussion!!
@YellowBrother11 ай бұрын
@@someone6162 bullshit. Tour is a scam artist and a sham. He keeps moving thr goalpost to protect his bullshit belief system.
@YellowBrother11 ай бұрын
@@someone6162 James the idiot is asking questions, and refusing the mountains of research. He won't even read the answers to his questions which is overwhelming proof that A. He's an idiot shilling for the bible, and B. He is in absolute terms wrong and won't admit it. Religion is a scam.
@countryboyred10 ай бұрын
@@YellowBrothercry more
@michaelgonzales13654 жыл бұрын
24:53 “If someone brings to me a piece of paper with words on it, that says to me there is life somewhere” DNA is information, it’s code. Shouldnt that be your indicator that there is a creative mind behind it?!
@truewordz7774 жыл бұрын
@ Michael Gonzales Superb.
@christopherfiorentino65524 жыл бұрын
My exact thought
@christopherfiorentino65524 жыл бұрын
@Juno Donat think that thru. now try again
@christopherfiorentino65524 жыл бұрын
@Juno Donat try harder..
@christopherfiorentino65524 жыл бұрын
@Juno Donat prefer not to cast pearls before swine
@jonbrittain784 жыл бұрын
Loved it. One of Unbelievable's best and most productive discussions I've seen.
@jonbrittain784 жыл бұрын
@Trolltician I would assume so
@20july19444 жыл бұрын
@Trolltician Why didn't you like it? The atheist didn't come off well -- he blandly said he doesn't know what "life" is, as is typical of atheist responses to scientific questions that avoid God; "I don't know."
@jonbrittain784 жыл бұрын
@Trolltician I guess I want really expecting a debate as they are both scientists at the top of their fields. To me it was an exploration of a fascinating and important topic from 2 perspectives, and they seemed to be able to both learn a bit from each other. That's why I thought it was productive.
@AsixA64 жыл бұрын
@@20july1944 Cronin came off great. Tour looked like a fool for misunderstanding what Cronin was arguing.
@20july19444 жыл бұрын
@@AsixA6 No, Cronin admitted he doesn't even know what he's aiming at since he doesn't know what "life" is.
@andyharvey3857 Жыл бұрын
I absolutely get Dr Tour's frustration I was taught in GSE biology that life came from a primordial soup. It was in a text book as something I should learn as a truth. I may have had the veneer of being a theory but it was very much presented as fact. Now older the truth is we are clueless as to how life started and to suggest that the PS is a good explanation is the source of his irritation.
@tomyossarian7681 Жыл бұрын
Maybe because the primordial soup is something we have evidence for: chemical elements + water. Next step we have evidence for is a fossilized cell (or waste material from a cell). So tell me, why would I conclude (however temporarily) anything else, based on those 2 points, except that through (yet) unknown processes (of which we have some evidence - heavy bombardment, early Earth conditions) emerged life? Any evidence to the contrary, or for a creator or 42 or Invisible Pink Unicorn?
@lieshtmeiser5542 Жыл бұрын
"...primordial soup. It was in a text book as something I should learn as a truth. " Thats the problem. The deceptive fraudulence of it. They should simply tell the truth about what the state of research is.
@VirtuelleWeltenMitKhan6 ай бұрын
I don't know what you always have with your textbooks. Yes, in schools a lot of teaching is done using books alone most of the time. It is a money issue. But I bet that even you used chemicals to conduct experiments in school, right? By the time you've gone to university you'll have seen that it comes from a textbook and the next step is to try it out yourself in the laboratory. There is no such thing as “this is the truth, here it is, you have to believe it.” It is very fundamental that you don't believe anything and check it yourself in the laboratory. And maybe we'll get there soon? Maybe, just maybe, students will read about it and then go into the lab and create test-tube life from simple chemistry and prove that this life is capable of evolving.
@ioanpeptenar3644 Жыл бұрын
Thanks. James you was the best. Thank you jesus
@ivanturinski50433 жыл бұрын
lol Lee warning James to be careful about building a narrative and then goes on to say 4,7 billion years old comets.
@mattityahu14 жыл бұрын
It may be that Lee Cornin suffers from post-modernism where the meaning of words become relative to the current thought in his head, but changes before he draws another breath. His mulit-answers are a maze, like many postmoderns do, he hides within, while spouting "evidence" as if they are proofs. I hope our academies recover in due time... Keep going Dr. Tour! Keep defining terms...
@hispls Жыл бұрын
Here we are 3 years later. How much closer is that bloke to creating life in his laboratory and if not, how much more money will he need before he gets there?
@VirtuelleWeltenMitKhan6 ай бұрын
as if origin of life research is eating up that much money let them do their work and maybe just maybe society will get more out of it like understanding caner or what not. You can only find stuff if you search for it.
@hispls6 ай бұрын
@@VirtuelleWeltenMitKhan So how much closer is this guy today than when the video was aired to curing cancer or creating life in his laboratory?
@VirtuelleWeltenMitKhan6 ай бұрын
@@hispls Is google scholar down? And even if he wouldn't be any closer, what then? Even if humanity's research yielded nothing, what then? One cannot simply stop research because they believe there is no benefit. To know that, one must first research. Unfortunately, research cannot guarantee results. It's not about definitely achieving Goal X; research cannot guarantee that. Be glad that people are researching things that don't interest you at all. You may not benefit from one specific research, but in the grand scheme, you do benefit.
@pathcoinfirst8936 Жыл бұрын
Lee Cronin makes an argument analogous to intelligent design. He says that if someone brings him a piece of with writing/information on a paper, he knows that there is a living thing. In wholly analogous to "if there is a door, there is a carpenter" or "if there is watch, there is a watchmaker".
@mizocarbazarofficial3 жыл бұрын
Lee stop talking about nonsense and just guve the evidence man
@derhafi3 жыл бұрын
There is zero evidence for a creator. One does not solve a mystery by appealing to a even bigger mystery, in this case in the form of a magical being.
@lawrence13183 жыл бұрын
@@derhafi God is a spirit, not a magician.
@derhafi3 жыл бұрын
@@lawrence1318 And How did you reach this concludion...Alo I did not say Magician, i said "magical being"
@lawrence13183 жыл бұрын
@@derhafi A spirit is not a magical being. A spirit is a being. You are a being because you are a spirit. You happen to live in a body, but your actual person is a spirit which lives in a body. So you are a being. Contrasting, an animal does not have a spirit and therefore is not a being.
@derhafi3 жыл бұрын
@@lawrence1318 There is no demnstrable correlation between "spirits" and reality. Humann minds, as well as animals, are chemical and fundamentally physical reactions. There is nothing supernatural about us, or anything else for that matter.
@rubiks64 жыл бұрын
(1:11:27) Cronin - "I don't think consciousness exists." Wow. If you deny enough things it becomes easy to deny God. Mr. Cronin - I'm not sure if you exist.
@rubiks64 жыл бұрын
@Donald Nadeau - There are many who have the same opinion as you.
@jeremycarey27724 жыл бұрын
@Donald Nadeau Can you prove that? I'm pretty sure there is more science in God creating the world than evolution. Explain how everything evolved in a short period of time, yet we see no evolutionary changes today.
@eddiemorris174 жыл бұрын
That is the most insane thing ive ever heard said.
@heroldable4 жыл бұрын
Yeah rubics; Lee is'n willing to see the whole picture.
@eddiemorris174 жыл бұрын
@Martyr4JesusTheChrist I don't think consciousness exists
@RealEverydayEnglish3 жыл бұрын
1:11:29 Lee said “I don’t believe in consciousness” One has to wonder if he was conscious when he said that!
@VirtuelleWeltenMitKhan6 ай бұрын
So, what is consciousness?
@HuelgasTed9 ай бұрын
I’m not convinced with Lee’s argument. Not even close proving the origin of life. All speculations and no proof.
@dougg10754 жыл бұрын
Lee is a insulting saying Tour is “ jealous “ and dogging his nano tech.
@MicDread4 жыл бұрын
Doug G ,, I noticed that also., he also said the working machines in cells aren’t machines, then 2 sentences later , describes the enter workings of cells as magnificent machines in his closing statements. Or something to this point.
@Psalm11014 жыл бұрын
Make life with supercomputers and bringing all the ingredients to the lab whats the excuse life is everywhere not
@fathifathi87504 жыл бұрын
@@MicDread i have an experience talking with athiests This is always how they talk , Wrong projections , they think life is just a chemical reaction , and they are so exellent on playing with words
@npm18114 жыл бұрын
Roger Joyce Lee was referring to Jim’s “nano-machines” that he creates in his lab, which they use to drill into cells. He is saying that these nanomachines are not really ‘machines’ per se.
@gingerale77294 жыл бұрын
@@npm1811 but they're still machines per se
@miroslawturski4 жыл бұрын
"Science doesn't form opinions, scientists do". It seems quite obvious that Lee has an agenda doing his research, which goes beyond just showing a mechanism of how life emerges.
@miroslawturski4 жыл бұрын
@AffiliateProWhat do you mean exactly?
@JekDrummerTime4 жыл бұрын
Seems like Lee has a narrative to push lol!
@roqsteady52904 жыл бұрын
He does have an agenda, it is called science. We have made a lot of progress that way and none by throwing up our hands and invoking magic.
@miroslawturski4 жыл бұрын
@@roqsteady5290 Obviously, I meant beyond science. As you said, scientific method is an extremely useful tool for discovering the mechanics of our reality, but it can't even tackle the question why those mechanics even exist.
@roqsteady52904 жыл бұрын
@@miroslawturski Invoking gods doesn't answer why questions either, because you are always left with the question of why such a thing even exists (charitably assuming it did). Why questions may be ultimately unanswerable (why is there something rather than nothing?). That is why science is concerned with how questions, which are the only kind of questions we can sensibly address.
@harbourhaven Жыл бұрын
Lee seems very defensive in his answers in a personal way. He keeps repeating things that James agrees with already. James seems concerned with the massive jump from the most basic elemental molecules to even proteins. And from then to cells. He seems to be saying, hey, we can't gloss over that.
@mikenusser84443 жыл бұрын
James Tour is a religious fanatic.
@MJ-jf7zw2 жыл бұрын
Says the naturalist lunatic. "If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true...and hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms." - J. B. S. Haldane
@Josssdj854 жыл бұрын
Minute 27, Lee says: "I haven't made life in my lab (yet), but I will. The argument will be: did that life come from me and where did I come from?" They are starting to catch up life is so complex it has to be made.
@mohr413 жыл бұрын
If he makes life - then he is the creator! Which proves there was a guided progression by a “mind” required for life to spawn.
@trustme76603 жыл бұрын
See that’s the thing scientists are playing God they need to play God for there claims to be true
@jotunman6273 жыл бұрын
He will never make life from a non life, even if he lives a million years, - period
@jotunman6273 жыл бұрын
life from non-life is like resurrecting the dead
@damienroberts9343 жыл бұрын
Who cares anyway - according to Tour, if Cronin is proven right in 500 years, it would not have affected Tours faith. So, what is the point of this conversation, and why do all the Tour fanboys congregate around an issue they find profound but to Tour is trivial and ultimately meaningless?
@gregariousguru3 жыл бұрын
It took one Christian, having called them out for their rhetoric, in order for anyone of them to acknowledge it. Well done
@justchilling7042 жыл бұрын
It just takes one.
@sumo12032 жыл бұрын
To acknowledge what exactly? Media reporting of science is abysmal, it seems James Tour has more of a problem with that, which is fine. But angiogenesis and biology it self is not his field, what has he corrected?
@trentonshuke35632 жыл бұрын
@@sumo1203 angiogenesis? Blood vessels? Did you mean abiogenesis?
@sumo12032 жыл бұрын
@@trentonshuke3563 yes
@andyarellanoChannel11 ай бұрын
amazing interview 3rd time watching!
@joaoarriagaecunha85833 жыл бұрын
I very very much liked this debate! Thank you all. I am a devote catholic, I already knew James Tour, I didn't know Lee Cronin but I liked him a lot. Lee Cronin is a lesson to all radical atheistic scientists. He is not religious but doesn't use science as a heapon to to destroy the belief in God. He just have the goal of acquiring scientific knowledge which is great. I also am passionate of scientific knowledge as, obviously, James Tour also is. Lee Cronin is a true gentleman! Thank you very much Lee and also thank you James and the chanel also!
@derhafi3 жыл бұрын
Tour is a liar with no scientific integrety.
@zephyr-117sdropzone8 Жыл бұрын
@@derhafi Dude is one of the greatest chemists ever. Are you kidding XD. He's just fantastic at pointing out the hypocrisy of modern science.
@learnwithjaredandmaria Жыл бұрын
@@derhafi And your better and understand more then he does huh? He loves debates please invite him to debate you.
@mirziyodm4 жыл бұрын
"We don't actually know what life is" "That piece of paper with writings on it is as alive as you are" Would somebody please provoide mr. Lee with a definition of a word "demagogy"? He can't answer a simple question without going to complete gibberish.
@Smithy22223 жыл бұрын
Holy shit that leap is crazy, yes he does want know what life is but the fact that something was written down is just as much evidence of life as anything else. It's not that complicated to understand.
@sandiknits41743 жыл бұрын
So if the writings on the paper proves to him there is a life behind it , why doesn’t the complexity of nature prove there is a creator behind that too ?
@fukpoeslaw36133 жыл бұрын
@@sandiknits4174 and then a creator behind that creator and another creator behind that one. that's no use, at least we know the universe exists. abiogenesis is just the most likely option, weird as it may look to someone who is used to believing in a Creator.
@HotelCharliHill3 жыл бұрын
I felt bad for him being distorted on his thinking about reality and consciousness. Those were bad signs about how lost he is.
@MrLaughingcorpse3 жыл бұрын
@@fukpoeslaw3613 If the creator exists outside of the time, space and matter it created, it may not need a cause. Meaning the creator is eternal. No beginning, no end. The idea of life coming form non-life and then going from simple to complex, simply by natural, unintelligent, unguided processes is not scientific in the least.
@safaesaber9544 жыл бұрын
This Lee is rude and impolite and he's the master of nonsense. Dr James is rational and polite.
@rodneynorfolk97374 жыл бұрын
and weak with his reasoning as well.
@alexfraser33284 жыл бұрын
OMG you are showing your bias on your sleeve. Both were initially stressed that they were misunderstood. In the end Dr James understood Lee. Dr James was fearful that Lee was saying something like "its easy to make a racing car"... Eventually Dr James understood that lee was saying he was going to find the principle behind why round wheels work and would always naturally occur ... The remaining tension is only the difference in opinion of how quick we can get to racing cars from just proving we can make round wheels... Lee thinks there are engineering principles that make it a quicker step than we might think (evolution) but that was not the topic for debate. Dr James is not confident that round wheels leads eventually to racing cars. Both are respectable opinions. But kudos to Lee for taking a fresh approach when everyone else is just looking at racing cars and scratching their heads !
@pv6830 Жыл бұрын
Any news from Dr Cronin's corner lately? Did he get the Evo2.0 OoL $10M prize that was announced at the Royal Society? Did he have to split it with Dr Szostak?
@Helmutandmoshe Жыл бұрын
"I don't even know if life exists..." I guess that pretty much ends the discussion.
@TheKuya284 жыл бұрын
Atheists - abiogenesis happened. Tour - Show me how? Atheists - (silence) ...to this day. Cronin - we'll find out one day, have faith.
@lewis723 жыл бұрын
Where's the evidence god exists ?
@brokula13123 жыл бұрын
@@lewis72 Creation, intelligence.
@lewis723 жыл бұрын
@@brokula1312 What creation ? What intelligence ?
@brokula13123 жыл бұрын
@@lewis72 You are a creation and intelligence. I see you so I conclude that your maker exists. I just cannot see that it came from nothing. I think that whenever I see any form of a design. From simple man made, like a hammer, house or a processor to Grand Designer Made - the universe.
@lewis723 жыл бұрын
@@brokula1312 " I see you so I conclude that your maker exists. I just cannot see that it came from nothing." - Argument from incredulity. Science isn't on your side.
@hekskey4 жыл бұрын
Am I the only one who noticed that the same guy who said ID has no basis in science then went on to explicitly affirm one of its central positive claims by saying that if he finds a paper with information on it that is just evidence for him that there is (intelligent) life somewhere?
@AvNotasian4 жыл бұрын
Intelligent life evolving out in the universe elsewhere does not mean that life visited earth and created us...
@ukfan12304 жыл бұрын
I had to pause the video to process what he had said. I’ve heard John Lennox make that point over and over. I was hoping Dr. Tour would point it out.
@AvNotasian4 жыл бұрын
@@ukfan1230 James Tour is dishonest, ID is pseudoscience the fact that Christians are clinging to this is pathetic.
@allenrhoades84824 жыл бұрын
@@AvNotasian , so are you able to give reasons to your claim or are you merely spouting you're own dogma?
@AvNotasian4 жыл бұрын
@@allenrhoades8482 Yes, but its unlikely you will understand and it would take a long time to type out. The short story is there is no valid alternative, but in addition dr Tours counter argument in context is he is saying "well bob didn't do it" regarding a boiled kettle when no one saw how it boiled but we saw it unboiled 5 minutes before. But because he says bob didn't do it there are a bunch of fools concluding that pixies must have done it, there is no rational reason to conclude this, but Tours stokes this belief by employing an argument from ignorance, the fact that he does this is why I say he is dishonest. He is trying to cut a tiny tiny hole in science to make room for his god. - The fact that ID is pseudoscience has been demonstrated in a court of law, but if you want a general reason its because the definition of pseudoscience applies under poppers demarcation criterion. - I highly doubt you will find this sufficient, which is part of the problem here there is no rational reason to think ID is science in the first place, so people who believe it is science are not doing so for a rational reason which makes it very hard to explain why its not science. But think about what science does, it attempts to explain the unknown, not find something that is currently unexplained and pretend thats evidence for something that there is no reason to believe even exists. - But perhaps you can explain why you think that mainstream science is "dogma" while people who are paid by a religious organisation with the stated goal to undermine the publics understanding of the scientific consensus for purely dogmatic reasons have any credibility.
@TheJohnskinner2 жыл бұрын
The point of this whole discussion for Jim was simply to show that the top scientist still don’t know how life could begin naturally, he is not saying that it couldn’t, only that it’s wrong to project as scientific that it did without the science to back it up, it’s still a mystery and until we unravel that mystery, let’s all not delude ourselves by thinking we know. Well done Jim
@JessicaSunlight Жыл бұрын
How could it have begun naturally when you see direction + organization and information that used at microscopic level or even and chimerical elements to construct any thing? There is no random spontaneous without purpose creation... Of course they have not found - because it doesn't exist... The more we know about how smallest things in universe behave the more complex it becomes, so much complex that human mind cannot fathom it. You either acknowledging this or you are still trying to fit universe and how it works into your mental box - and for many people this dream box of how they wish universe is to be "natural unguided unintelligent random" Well... Universe NEVER will work how wish it to be. Its pure fantasy that one day some one will find out magic way universe to be "natural" when at chemical level and even sub atomic level it already behaves otherwise... Basically its the same with flat earthers - I see the evidence but nop I'm gonna still look for flat earth evidence and in this case for natural selection, some magical random process and so on and on insanity goes on... Materialism as a ideology is dead. But Im always enjoying see people come up with the "next" evidence and year after year its been debunked by science itself.
@lloydgush Жыл бұрын
That's an euphemism, they aren't only saying a-biogenesis is a fact, they are saying that they know how it will happen and soon reproduce it in a lab.
@uninspired3583 Жыл бұрын
@@JessicaSunlight how is supernatural an explanation of any kind?
@JessicaSunlight Жыл бұрын
@@uninspired3583 Supernatural is simply lack of knowledge of natural. Look in the past and see how many things were considered supernatural - today its natural and known.
@101xaplax1019 ай бұрын
Perhaps you should be asking why Christians are so willing to delude themselves into thinking that they know? It’s pretty pointless to have a scientific debate with Christians which is why most scientists won’t waste their time with this guy
@mrs.fightnight35433 ай бұрын
Praise the Lord for his mercy endures forever
@joshjoshua49073 жыл бұрын
James Tour WINS the debate 100-0
@derhafi3 жыл бұрын
Tour is suggesting an alternative to a naturalistic origin of life, which is indistinguishable from magic. His so called “intelligence” has no, absolutely no, demonstrable correlation with reality. This is nothing but deeply unscientific, creationists, nonsense. The simple fact that we cannot recreate something in the lab, does not add credibility to a magical entity
@thebritishbookworm2649 Жыл бұрын
@@derhafi he didn't say that anywhere.
@lomaschueco4 жыл бұрын
James Tour dropping scientific facts. Lee Cronin: That's a narrative! LOL
@AsixA64 жыл бұрын
James Tour dropping pseudoscientific nonsense.
@lomaschueco4 жыл бұрын
jwkivy anything Did you mean to say something? Try again.
@AsixA64 жыл бұрын
Rosita So, you’re illiterate. Got it.
@lomaschueco4 жыл бұрын
jwkivy Still nothing? Got it.
@AsixA64 жыл бұрын
Rosita still illiterate? Still got it
@thegreatcornholio72552 жыл бұрын
Dr Cronin seriously needs to lookup "The Fallacy of Equivocation".
@kgeo26863 жыл бұрын
Lee: “we know other universes have these laws” “We know about gravity because I can SEE it” This guy is deeply intrenched
@cisuminocisumino32502 жыл бұрын
I think he mean't "see the effects."
@ghenadi753 жыл бұрын
Lee Cronin: "I don't know if consciousness exists." I just realised that there's no point of trying even to understand this fellow 🙃
@Spectre-wd9dl3 жыл бұрын
You wrote a comment so you must exist. Are you not a conscious being? Are you denying your own existence?
@MrLaughingcorpse3 жыл бұрын
@@Spectre-wd9dl It would be hard to determine that if we are just a clump of chemicals and dirt that natural forces randomly assembled into a biological entity.
@filthymcnasty77833 жыл бұрын
@@MrLaughingcorpse , isnt that what the god of the gaps did in genesis?. . or was it just magic?
@MrLaughingcorpse3 жыл бұрын
@@filthymcnasty7783 It was much more than that. He created life and consciousness as well. Clumps of chemicals assembled by nature wouldn't have life nor consciousness. No magic involved.
@filthymcnasty77833 жыл бұрын
@@MrLaughingcorpse i cant help that you think MAGIC is real. . . if u ever get sum good evidence for your fairy, get back to me. u are selling an invisible house and i'm not buying it.
@stevenwiederholt70004 жыл бұрын
The Proper answer to the GCSE question should have been..Well Its a Bit More Complicated Than That.
@christopherbrown1850 Жыл бұрын
You have the perfect voice for being a moderator.👍
@jamesreilly51833 ай бұрын
I think this controversy exists because many people are insecure about their world view. Science does not threaten religion and religion does not threaten silence. If society can figure that out, we could have civil and factual based discussions about topics like this. We are much better off educating one another, because this is a multidisciplinary topic, rather than persisting with “Tower of Babel” arguments. This was one of the better attempts to do so, thanks to the moderator.
@bluefairyuk3 жыл бұрын
Professor Cronin talks so abstract that to people like me it was like listening to fried air and not science. Dr Tour is very clear in explaining science. Thank you Dr Tour, you are amazing.
@caviramus09933 жыл бұрын
He didn't explain anything, He just asked question and Cronin responded them. It's your problem that you can't understand what they are talking about.
@christiaanvandermerwe85622 жыл бұрын
@@caviramus0993 I'm sorry, but not recognizing that teaching/explaining a concept can be carried out at varying degrees of efficacy, is just plain ignorance. Do better.
@viktordoe1636 Жыл бұрын
Because what he is doing is smokes and mirrors and gaslighting. When he is not abstract, but talks about specifics it's easy to call him out on his BS.
@wajdiazar25724 жыл бұрын
what the hell that Lee is talking about, I think he is flying in some other dimension, come back mate we miss you.
@dave13702 жыл бұрын
Cronin: "I don't know what life is, but I'm going to create it in a lab." 🤦♂️
@TVCorpRPG Жыл бұрын
Tour: "I dont understand evolution, therefore god did it."
@SeriesofClu Жыл бұрын
@@TVCorpRPG Towards the end he didn’t even want to discuss evolution.
@TVCorpRPG Жыл бұрын
@@SeriesofClu He said in one speech those exact words "I dont understand evolution, is it ok?" And he proceeded to call himself a creationist in an interview he had, its as clear as day, hes a walking god of the gaps.
@inchristalone25 Жыл бұрын
@@TVCorpRPG And you think life created itself?
@TVCorpRPG Жыл бұрын
@@inchristalone25 Yes, for sure, we know a lot of stuff about life originating from inorganic stuff, we dont need to put god in that gap now, catch up to the 21 century my friend. I can link you to a bunch of videos in this topic.
@bungkiukissinquinker7563 Жыл бұрын
Lovely debate. This is what debates should be like... I loved it.
@adifferentangle7064 Жыл бұрын
This debate was actually retarded. It was basically an intelligent man telling a boy that he didn't know what he was talking about, and the boy disagreed but then went on to explain that the reason why the old man was wrong is because he (the boy) had no idea what he was talking about. Lee is studying the origin of life but cannot define life. Do you understand what that means? It means he is literally studying something he hasn't defined.
@bungkiukissinquinker7563 Жыл бұрын
@@adifferentangle7064 well that's your take. To each his own. I loved it and that's my take. And if your take is that Lee is stupid then that's your take. I study physics and I understand that sometimes studying that which we cannot define also makes sense, that is where breakthroughs happens. I don't hold a PhD in synthetic Chemistry so I cannot judge who is what because I am no expert in that field. I'm just here listening to experts having a civil discourse and trying to learn something.
@adifferentangle7064 Жыл бұрын
@@bungkiukissinquinker7563 It's not that he's stupid so much as everyone around him has allowed him to study something that hasn't been defined. Which is at best post-modern, at worst disingenuous, and regardless it is simply not scientific. When you study your physics, before you even start you have to define the parameters of what it is you are studying. How this man got funding is beyond me.
@bungkiukissinquinker7563 Жыл бұрын
@@adifferentangle7064 I believe I understand what you're trying to get at. It would have been nice if it was still the holiday season so that we could go back and forth but I guess I heard you perspective loud and clear. Have a blessed time ahead.
@hadjseddikyousfi004 жыл бұрын
Cronin : "We have no idea what the pathway to life was.'' Thank You Sir, Ciao.
@kjustkses4 жыл бұрын
I have not made life in my lab, but I will. Omy that was humble
@VirtuelleWeltenMitKhan6 ай бұрын
Well you have to see where he is coming from and where others come from. "Life" is overburdened with emotion and meaning. But if you take a rational look at life it is just a consequence of natural processes. Just because humans made it mystical and raised it up in the air cause they are alive and want to be up there does not mean that this view is realistic.
@raphaelfeneje4862 ай бұрын
@@VirtuelleWeltenMitKhan "If you take a rational look at life, it is just a consequence of natural processes." Since you've come to a conclusion that it's a natural process, can you explain how you "rationally" came to that conclusion?
@raphaelfeneje4862 ай бұрын
@@VirtuelleWeltenMitKhan Maybe Cronin can learn a thing or two from you, genius?
@ProfYaffle2 жыл бұрын
I am very impressed by Lee's ability to explain these complicated things to lay people. I'm guessing he's a great lecturer. Mind, I'm thinking of fetching some sodium molybdate from that spring in Idaho and adding some lemon juice to it to get a free copy of the complete works of Shakespeare
@trimetrodon Жыл бұрын
And the works of Proust in ten leather-bound volumes…
@chomnansaedan4788 Жыл бұрын
add some tabasco and you can get a version of Shakespeare that Shakespeare himself didn't even write.
@belfastholidaybreaks8414 Жыл бұрын
He's a typical arrogant atheist. They're all the same.
@trimetrodon Жыл бұрын
@@chomnansaedan4788 Turns out, Shakespeare didn’t write much of what is attributed to him. Shakespeare bought a lot of it from Thomas North. Look up North of Shakespeare by Dennis McCarthy. The evidence is excellent.
@mcmanustony Жыл бұрын
@@belfastholidaybreaks8414 where does he say anything about his lack of belief in a god? You are a typical foul minded bigot.
@ppac300 Жыл бұрын
"I don't know what life is. I don't know if life really exist." - Lee Cronin
@RobertlawrenceBDCMinistries Жыл бұрын
thus conceding that naturalism has NO answer (since they dont even have a working definition) for the origin of life. Which, by the way, is the PRESUPPOSITION to even BEGIN a conversation of Natural Selection.
@johnnygonzales3267 Жыл бұрын
every biologist crys, shits, then bursts into flames.
@TheseNuts2 Жыл бұрын
"I believe things with no good evidence, I have faith in an invisible being"-Rational people?
@ppac300 Жыл бұрын
@@TheseNuts2 I believe that all things, all the known and unknown universe, came out of nothing. Abracadabra…poof! Err bang! Yeah ok. This is more rational? Sounds like…you believe in magic.
@TheseNuts2 Жыл бұрын
@@ppac300 Published source please? You are talking about your god creating clay and making people out of it? Projecting your insecurity about a fairy tale you believe?
@rocoreb4 жыл бұрын
the debate in two sentences: Christian: Show me the evidence Atheist: You are creating a narrative
@AllOtherNamesUsed4 жыл бұрын
Ignorant modern myths of the atheist fundies in full display above. Ironic, since it was the Christian Creationists who pioneered nearly all the fields of modern science including biology (later hijacked and inverted by the atheists) precisely because they were seeking to know the mind of the Creator through His creation. Nothing new, true Christianity has always had to contend with man made myths, idols and imitators.
@gowdsake71034 жыл бұрын
@@AllOtherNamesUsed Now THAT is one insane comment !
@rodneysettle81064 жыл бұрын
OrthoChristos the Christian expects the atheist to fully demonstrate and understand the exact method that created life, it might never be fully understood. Saying a god or a magical creator made life happen is rather childish.
@davidolivares2474 жыл бұрын
@@rodneysettle8106 is We come from a random, purpusless, unguided and unintelligent process a more mature idea Sir?
@rodneysettle81064 жыл бұрын
David Olivares yes, believing in a god or creator that doesn’t care to demonstrate to its most intelligent animals: ie. humans, that it exists unequivocally, so we know our purpose is silly and somewhat childish. You may completely disagree and that’s fine.
@jeffsatterthwaite31674 жыл бұрын
Lee accuses Tour of creating a narrative then promptly builds his own followed by an assertion with absolutely no supporting evidence. 1) There are simple organic molecules on meteorites 2) There was simple chemistry on the early earth 3) There was energy on the early earth 4) There is evidence for the late heavy bombardment and all that stuff 5) Elemental molecules gain complextity when they are on a planet Viola Life! Excuse me but Tour's whole point is that we KNOW how molecules gain complexity through observing chemical pathways in the laboratory because we can actually add complexity to simple molecules today! We also know that the complex nature and fragility of these chemical pathways COULD NOT OCCUR in the warm little pond that Darwin dreamed up and that materialists love so much. It sounds like Lee is assuming, like most materialists, that since there were elemental molecules early in the universe and there are complex molecules now the only acceptable explanation that fits the materialist world view is that they evolved through natural processes so therefore they evolved (gained complexity) through natural processes! There is actually not only absolutely no evidence of this but there is ample evidence against it. However it fits the materialist presupposition so it must be true.
@philroe23634 жыл бұрын
There you go . . . using logic again . . .
@pwharman4 жыл бұрын
At some point even God's will needs to turn into some material process. Most theists gloss over this and just say "God did it". Depending on your notion of when the big guy got involved with this whole shebang, you might even say that the God view concurs with the primordial soup.
@philroe23634 жыл бұрын
@@pwharman "even God's will needs to turn into some material process." No it doesn't. You are simply imposing a materialist's viewpoint on God. God lives outside of time and space - of logical necessity because if He didn't, He could not BE God and be subject to the physical laws that HE CREATED. God IS omnipotent, and absolutely HAS the power to create ab-initio, without any "help" from materialists. You can attempt to deny that as you wish, but what you imply defies logic.
@pwharman4 жыл бұрын
@@philroe2363 I think you misunderstood me, or I mispoke. According to the bible, God created "the heavens and the Earth". If you are happy to stop there, and I believe Jim Tour is, then you must accept that life emerged and evolved naturally.
@philroe23634 жыл бұрын
@@pwharman I am not quite certain I heard Dr. Tour say that he fully embraced evolution . . . nor did he say he rejected it either. From that perspective, one shouldn't draw conclusions as to what he believes or not.
@user-ye2em3fn4o3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely a GREAT conversation between two incredible minds. Very cordial and respectful. We must have more of this in our society. Great episode Justin!!
@ProfYaffle2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely wonderful. There were a few tensions and I understand why, but they kept it together. I am also in awe of Justin's ability to summarise and ask pertinent questions and to keep the conversation going. I'm so grateful to all 3 men for doing this
@shots-shots-shotseverybody27072 жыл бұрын
I don't agree with you. The more I listened to the Brit the more I watched holes poked in his alleged intellect which grew into chasms by the end. He seemed juvenile by the time that this ended
@wungabunga Жыл бұрын
@@shots-shots-shotseverybody2707 He lost me early, then said 'I haven't created life in my lab yet, I will'. Oh my.
@mcmanustony Жыл бұрын
@@shots-shots-shotseverybody2707 This "alleged intellect" is a distinguished Professor of Chemistry at one of the most prestigious universities in the world. And you are......???
@EvanXTP Жыл бұрын
@@mcmanustonyIt's evident how he completely ignores anything that is not consistent with his religious beliefs. His method is biased and unscientific, especially when he talks about origin of life research.
@paulanelson1629 Жыл бұрын
Who orchestrated the variables needed to create life ?
@VirtuelleWeltenMitKhan6 ай бұрын
Which variables to you mean?
@rustlingbushes76784 жыл бұрын
As an Atheist, this is my favorite Christian channel. I really appreciate the thoughtful banter.
@ralphgoreham35164 жыл бұрын
It is now time to introduce basic bio-chemistry in all schools. Why? It is the key to advance medicine, rid nonsense ideas such as Lee espoused. What is life??? what is Dna information? All life is protein. This we know. Every cell is protein, even their membranes. This we know. To make a protein there are 4 fundamentals, DNA, 3 RNAs (or 4) and ribosomes. and energy producing ATP synthase. Any missing, no protein, no life. They all must be present. THIS IS NOT JUST "NARRATIVES". This is basic micro biology. I imagine his fellow OOL colleages would be cringing.
@ralphgoreham35164 жыл бұрын
Psm 36:9 "With YOU is the source of life" , No amount of obfuscation can escape it.
@rustlingbushes76784 жыл бұрын
@@ralphgoreham3516, I concur. How we define life is important in our education systems. There wouldn't be as much confusion, if all children were taught the basic building blocks, and how they interact. I love History, and Science wasn't my best subject. From History, I can attest that as our Science has gotten better, our understanding of the Universe has improved. We will never know everything, yet pursuing knowledge, and building upon our ancestors is how humans have survived. Certainly, bad ideas deserve ridicule.
@rustlingbushes76784 жыл бұрын
@@ralphgoreham3516, how do you know that the Elohim are the source of life?
@ralphgoreham35164 жыл бұрын
@@rustlingbushes7678 You should know "Elohim", God (is singular, not plural). Always has singular pronouns, verbs and adjectives. Other forms are El and Eloha. All equal God. Elohim per se is plural to convey excellence and majesty. Why do I agree with the psalmist.? I would need many pages in this forum to add to my first comment above. Here are a few more impossibilities for evo. It is now agreed there are 15 million life forms on the planet and even we accept it is 540 million years since the cambrian period when multicellular creatures exploded on to the scene, (about 26) how many beneficial mutations would be needed to build all 15 million in that time. Despite the many scientific assuming/ protesting that goes on, NONE have been found that ADD TO DNA info.. I mean we have 3 billion base pairs of E.T C.and G, CODED info. The blue whale is 100 yards long, the elephants trunk has no bones . The point, You would need trillions of years, not millions of years. (I leave out bacteria that is claimed to be 3 and a half billion years old and BTW why did evo take 3 billion years to go multicelled.? Our DNA has 5 repair mechanisns!. What copying errors came up with such to get rid of copying errors ? ?? Neo Darwinism has not been discarded as Dennis Noble and many others since Lyn Margelus thought it should be. But it will stay because there is nothing else materialistic to account for the structure of cells, skin, tissues, ligaments, tendons, bones, blood, brains, etc in those 15 million types of life. The ID community deserve real credit for their work, honesty and courage in the face of "scientific" opposition. So "Dapper" perhaps you should look at some Utube videos such as "how are proteins Made?, How does ATP work"? and "Work horses of the cell". If you do, ask yourself in all honesty, could blind chance, Father Time and copying errors construct such ? Untill I studied basic bio Chemistry i thought it possible. Now I say it is IMPOSSIBLE. ok?
@chrishughens32664 жыл бұрын
What I come away with is: If I am allowed to redefine what life is, I will make it in my lab.
@slippy684 жыл бұрын
@Crazy Jesse A simple definition was given by James in the early stages of the debate.
@chrishughens32664 жыл бұрын
@Crazy Jesse Start with oxygen exchange, but just to illustrate how mixed up people are CJ, JC is the way, the truth and the life.
@mohamadsaid60504 жыл бұрын
Bulls eye! Dodgy Lee ! he he he
@savebyj4 жыл бұрын
Yep
@AsixA64 жыл бұрын
@Martyr4JesusTheChrist YOU are an example of "life from non-life". There is not a single atom nor molecule in your entire body that is alive, yet, you are alive.
@rampartranger7749 Жыл бұрын
Hmmmm. ……at 1:03, Lee says 5 years, ….and now it is 3 years, going on 4, …..could we have an update? Lee? Getting there?
@anthonycook8703 Жыл бұрын
"I'm not even sure that life exists." Pretty sure life exists.
@spalding1968 Жыл бұрын
Yep . Sadly a university science degree removes all common sense .
@gregorsamsa136411 ай бұрын
He's talking about life as an objectively defined category, as opposed to just a section of a continuum, with no objective hard line demarcating it from the rest of the continuum, but rather only a roughly and subjectively drawn one
@gregorsamsa136411 ай бұрын
@@spalding1968what's your definition of "common sense"?
@gregorsamsa136411 ай бұрын
@@spalding1968yeah, I suspected you wouldn't be capable of providing a meaningful definition
@spalding196811 ай бұрын
@@gregorsamsa1364 I suspected you would not understand my answer .
@Paradigm2012Shift4 жыл бұрын
42:30 "What I care about is if I can create a life form in the lab now with minimal interaction with it ... " Every part of this statement describes intelligently designing a life form. That is completely incompatible with the Darwinian Theory of Evolution which posits "Undirected Random Mutations and Natural Selection" as the material process.
@ReligieVrij3 жыл бұрын
Yes, therefore their arguments are dead ends, as well as their experiments.
@colonelfredpuntridge87993 жыл бұрын
No. Darwinian evolution - random mutations and natural selection - is what happened AFTER the first life-form originated.
@Ozone2803 жыл бұрын
Evolution has nothing to say about the origins of life, that's abiogenesis.
@veritasvosliberabit24034 жыл бұрын
At 24+ minutes in Lee Cronin unintentionally (imho) admitted that an Intelligent Designer would be his own logical inference, due to the blueprinted complexity of even the simplest life, an essential component of information theory as applied to the Origins of Life discussion.
@mrb5324 жыл бұрын
I caught that, too. LOL
@markweise61424 жыл бұрын
Lee said something to the sort, If I found a paragraph written on paper that is proof that an intelligent life wrote it. What a major fail on his part not to realize that DNA is called the book of life. DNA is not just a paragraph it is filled with billions of bits of information, which are the instructions to build our bodies. How could Lee not conclude it takes intelligent life to place the data into DNA when he admitted just a paragraph written on paper is proof of intelligent life?
@kennym34924 жыл бұрын
Veritas vos liberabit no body hand created our world.
@AsixA64 жыл бұрын
@@markweise6142 The "information" of DNA is just 4 chemicals. No intelligence required.
@moshemyym46274 жыл бұрын
@@kennym3492 Right, it was created without hands. You do know how voice command works here in our modern technology right? Well, we're still expanding in knowledge (as it is written, knowledge shall be increased) exponentially and therefore we're learning more about how things work and how we can do things with less work (great intelligence being at the helm of it all). Now imagine(this imagining is only a fraction of what evolutionists must imagine if they were to ponder about on what they have to imagine) a GREATER INTELLIGENCE knowing how everything works and simply uses WORD to bring forth all things! It's not about "magic" it's about INTELLIGENCE. Now to maybe some humans in the third world could see our modern technology as magic, speaking a word to cause light to appear or clapping your hands to cause light to appear(both activations are by SOUND-WORD). They don't know about the intelligence that went into the device so they may call it magic but once we explain it to them, it's still awesome but it's been demystified. This means Genesis 1 is very possible and it makes all the sense in the world above anything else. A Creator creating all things fully mature, with age and ready to be used. So much more can be said but I digress.
@maronshinestar56402 жыл бұрын
Brilliant to see us asking questions, without blocking or discounting people because they dare to challenge assumptions. Dr James Tour is not 'the leading critic of origin of Life research'; he simply asks the question, "How do we know there was a primordial soup from which life came; show me the evidence". Asking this question is not a narrative.
@paulanelson1629 Жыл бұрын
Where did the information in the cell come from ?
@VirtuelleWeltenMitKhan6 ай бұрын
You mean the DNA? Started out with RNA or even simpler. Random stuff got together and the surviving stuff persisted and got more and further. You can find more of that on chemical evolution and done the path biological evolution of cells.