Does Your Vintage Classic Car REALLY Need Special Oil? Evidence That It Does Not

It's a recognized fact that flat tappet engines require zinc (zddp) to keep the cam and lifters properly lubed, but there is at least one common engine out there, the 4.0 Jeep, that runs and lasts flawlessly using nothing but commonly available quick-lube oil and no special additives or treatments.
So, is the zinc thing just a myth? Here's what you should know.
#jeep #cherokee #XJ #chrysler
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[@TEN-TIMES-HARDER]

Damn your gonna make me call you out, hell, well your wrong kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqXMY3-Ll5p7p80

[@UncleTonysGarage]

I don't know what to say....but, since you went through the trouble of making that video, I'll pin it here so others can offer their opinions.

[@stevetaylor9265]

Not sure what the pot head is taking about but that reminded me of the old frying pan and egg adds from the 80s. This is your brain on drugs. Any questions

[@brunomahle1618]

punching up for views

[@reaper20015]

@@UncleTonysGarage Mama always said if ya ain't got notthin nice to say.....well you know the rest.

[@reaper20015]

@@stevetaylor9265 Please refrain from blaming him on pot. Thank you.

[@car_ventures]

High ZDDP oil is usually classed as >800ppm - 1200ppm ZDDP content. Cheap oils will be 1200ppm but they also contain high concentrations of molybdenum and similar. Varies of course by manufacturer but that's typically the ball park.

[@jeffrobodine8579]

After checking out your long subscription list I am surprised Project Farm is not on there.

[@itsthemetho]

Lots of high zinc oil are 1500-1600 ppm. Not saying you need it, but plenty older formulas were that high. Now they replace the ZDDP with friction modifiers like boron or MoS2.

[@grand73am]

I've been driving my 75 Pontiac Lemans, with Pontiac 350, for over 20 years. Original, untouched engine. It had 62K miles on it when I bought it in 2002. Now it has nearly 190K miles. I haven't used special high zinc oil in it or additives. Just Valvoline 10W40. It runs just as good as it did when I got it. No cam problems. Of course, it's not a high performance engine, but it's still pretty peppy for a heavy car.

[@davidcamp3045]

I would love to see a picture of that car...

[@unicornsteaks6769]

It almost seems like it's a new cam/lifter issue.

[@jimsix9929]

that valvoline 10w 40 has plenty of zinc for a stock engine, you are doing the right thing, dont ever change

[@apachebill]

I’d switch. To the Valvoline VR1 10-40 High Zinc flavor. Same exact oil. More zinc. Keep her protected. One Lemans man to another. 😉

[@googleusergp]

Slight correction: The 4.0L six-cylinder engine was first used in a Jeep XJ platform in 1987. From 1984 to 1986, they used the GM sourced 2.8L V6.

[@ultimafuego]

Been using diesel oil and all my vehicles. Two or four wheels for the last 15 years. If they're older than the year 2000. Never let me down.

[@johnpublic6582]

I guess that's why I didn't wipe out my 318 cam before I learned about zddp. 3x10w40 and 1.5x20w50 with a filter every 3000 until I get to the rebuild.

[@car_ventures]

Zinc doesn't protect as zinc is soft. It's the P in ZDDP that does the protecting. The P is Phosphate and under heat it creates a hard glass like film which creates a barrier between the metal. The zinc is the part that carries the phosphate to where it's needed. Without zinc the phosphate wouldn't get everywhere needed, so yes in that sense zinc is important but the part doing the protecting is the phosphate.

[@OldcarsNmusic]

Nice to know that about the Jeep 4.0 because I have two, one in a '96 Grand Cherokee and one in an '88 Comanche. Sounds like six quarts of Traveller 15w40 will do them both just fine.

[@user-cs1ne8gx9u]

The AMC 150/2.5 was designed to be built on the same tooling as the old rambler 6, 232/258 and arrived before the 4.0 liter. The 4.0 is basically a 150 with 2 more cylinders and a different bore and stroke. Since the basic design didn't change much since 1964 many parts will or potentially swap between all the 6 and 4 cylinders. Chrysler sure got there moneys worth with the purchase of AMC as they always made a great engine.

[@QuietDriver97]

Had a 2000 TJ with the 2.5 and had the head taken off at 152k miles just for a refresh. The shop said the cylinders looked near new.

[@googleusergp]

The reason Chrysler bought AMC was for the Jeep brand and for some production facilities. The rest was table scraps and went away fairly quickly.

[@user-cs1ne8gx9u]

@@googleusergpChrysler also got a lot out of AMC's last engineering work. Think of how many YJ's and XJ's were produced after the purchase all being of AMC design. Even in the TJ Chrysler kept the AMC engines and the 2.5 also went into Dakota's until 02. Then there's the PowerTech family of engines also of AMC design that was used till 13. Not to mention the LH platform they made millions of that AMC developed with Renault. Chrysler got a lot more out of buying AMC than just the name Jeep.

[@92powerdiesel61]

@@user-cs1ne8gx9u The powertech engine's basic design is still in use to this day with the 2.4L multi air that they throw into a lot of stuff. Mind you the modern stuff is over complicated and much less reliable however it is cool to see the basics of engineering reused over and over.

[@FlatTireGarage]

@@user-cs1ne8gx9u AMC also designed the jeep ZJ they never produced it before the sale but Chrysler did and it sold like hot cakes

[@broke_dongle]

My only contention is the Jeep cam and lifters are low lift with soft spring pressures ; few here , select the mileage maker cams. LOL.

[@robodrop2392]

They do chew up camshaft gears when they pulled the distributor and put a dummy shaft in

[@SpecialAgentJamesAki]

Things to consider: spring pressure, weight/drag of valvetrain components, and rpm range. Stock cams usually do fine with regular oil. Regular oil today is around 800 ppm zinc. It is recommended to have the zinc level around 1200 ppm if you’re going past stock, which the rotella is very close to. You won’t hurt anything by running 1200 ppm and the rotella is cheaper than regular oil so might as well. You can overzinc a motor around 2000ppm which will make the oil deteriorate and become acidic quickly and might also ruin catalytic converters if you have them. I have a car with a 230 duration 530 lift cam that got ran on modern Mobil 1 synthetic oil for 20k miles by the previous owner and I have run it on rotella for 30k. Recently had the motor open and the cam was 100% on spec still.

[@averyalexander2303]

I was thinking the same thing, the Jeep engine was in no way built for performance and most weren't run very hard. It doesn't have an aggressive cam or stiff valve springs to put much stress on the oil and it doesn't rev very high. So just because a stock Jeep 4.0 will go 200K miles on low quality oil without problems doesn't mean the same results can necessarily be expected from a high revving performance engine with an aggressive cam and stiff valve springs. The hardness and surface finish on the cam lobes and lifters is likely much better on the 2000's Jeep than something made in the 60's too since metallurgy and machining has improved so much since then. There's just way too many variables to say with any accuracy that someone won't have problems with X oil because it works fine in a totally different engine (not that Tony is saying this, just clarifying).

[@jeremyking5684]

Your absolutely right! Any engine with a high lift flat tappet cam with strong springs you need zinc or your going to wipe it out!

[@SpecialAgentJamesAki]

@@averyalexander2303 I agree! That’s a good way to put it!

[@danhoyland142]

I found some scholarly article done by scientists on one of these oil manufacturers websites four or 5 years ago . I was trying to figure this out and really dug into as much as I could. What the research study said was modern oil is adequate for stock cams under .450 lift. The logic was the down pressure on the lifters onto the cam lobe from the valve train was not great enough to wear the cam lobe. I still felt uncomfortable and ran rotella.

[@joshlambrecht2357]

Good point about the Jeep. Duration on the jeep cam is very short. Allows for less angle on the lobe, so less wear that way also. Old volvo 4bangers and the pushrod straight six were like that too. Very rare to see a factory cam on those thats wiped, even hundreds of thousands of miles later. Of course there is some wear, but its usually even and mild. On the other hand, many a Volvo guy has “rebuilt” his old B20 or B18 4 cylinder with an aftermarket longer duration cam and ive seen more of those wiped in recent years.... all since the mid 90s. Stock short duration cam on my inline six still makes factory lift.

[@markc9409]

Tony I use Castrol classic 20w/50 in my hot rod stuff because of spring pressure, my DD is an 89 f250 460 ft cam I use walmart 10w/40. I don't buy the oil crap. You and Vintage Iron hit the nail on the head with machining and QC. new diesel are all roller that isn't your dads Rotella or Delo 400

[@davebonds250]

189k on my '93 XJ. FLATTENED #3 exhaust lobe 3wks after buying it. These engines have a notoriously difficult time with lifter tick and piston slap due to the short skirts. Its not just Zinc. Its also Phosphorus that helps cushion and heat insulate/ wash barrier. Also, oils have changed massively over the years. The same brand and weight had massive changes in its additive pack throughout the years.

[@3rdworldgarage450]

Nissan also used flat tappets in their engines until the mid 2000s. They were OHC engines, but the GA and KA engines were both ( I believe solid lifter) flat tappet. I currently have 435k on a KA that has never run high zinc oil in its life, and it is one owner. It has only had it's valve lash reset once, at 397,000 miles.

[@KurtTank392]

UtG. Its the whole additive package, Zinc is only one part, there is phosphorus ect needed. Any racing oil or lucas hot rod oil will be adequate

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

Fiat 1.4 engines which say MOPAR right on the valve cover use flat tappets on the exhaust side. It does have rollers on the intake side.

[@alale923]

Love my 99 and 98 jeep xjs. Pretty sure my 99 classic has the same issue of a broken flexplate. Ill be looking out for the video on diagnosing those sound differences.

[@jim55282]

As of this date, I dont know if there is a TSB for cam and lifters on the 4.0 but when I was a dealer tech I saw 3 that ate the cam and lifters. No, this didn't happen at extremely low miles but indo recall one being a warranty job.

[@oldsjetfire8975]

Keep in mind that spring pressure will be higher on a performance engine and can play a part in this.

[@111000100101001]

Yes a “performance” grind cam in a big block Chevy is tough on lifters and mating cam lobes. It could use all the EP to keep it alive.

[@tinkersspeedshop8401]

😂🤣😂 if you dont understand that, probly should stick to changing oil, leave the wrenching for a mechanic.

[@wheelieking71]

Two words: "Spring Pressure". Kerry hit the nail on the head (as you know).

[@chrisrossman9566]

Engine oils always have to be backward compatible. The base oils are better these days so less zinc is needed. Drive down south and you see many vehicles pre roller running around just fine. Cummins used flat tappets up to 2018.

[@bowez9]

I can reiterate this, my 90 F150 with 300 and 600k miles I use Costco Synthetic 5-30 without issue. Costco oil is hard to beat on price and quality.

[@grillsandaxlegrease3578]

You are right - Amsoil now makes a diesel oil which the proprietary additives make up for the zinc.. But that's not the only issue. Storage and POWER are the others. You can dino as I am doing now - Amsoil Zrod vs any other and see 4-7 more HP!! Plus no rust in 2-years of storage,,

[@raiderjohnthemadbomber8666]

I used Royal Purple for the cam break-in, I replaced it with the same and yes a 20 minutes run with a low micron filter is expensive but I really wanted a good break-in. After the replacement oil came out I too have been using Rotella. BTW, roller lifters for a Gen I is prohibitly expensive!

[@tinkersspeedshop8401]

Never use royal purple for break in, the parts wont wear together, and you will get some funny bidness, just not right off, and thats if you even get the rings to seat.

[@raiderjohnthemadbomber8666]

@@tinkersspeedshop8401 thanks for that. I'd heard that about synthetics. In your estimation, what's a good oil to use for a 20 minutes?

[@Terminxman]

I'm not sure the ford 300/4.9 i6 ever had roller cams from the factory either, and I know most people aren't even thinking about needing zddp in them and they run forever. I had one for a while that I ran 5w30 mobil 1 or whatever off the shelf oil and never had an issue. However, in my 390 FE that is a recent rebuild with a flat tappet I run the Lucas classic car oil.

[@roby14]

Next question UT. Can I put a B or E body K frame in an A body car? I'd like to put a big block 383 in a duster. Also if I have to cut and weld the mounts, please make a video on it. Your the best!

[@wheels-n-tires1846]

Easiest route is usually conversion mounts. A company called Schumacher was the go-to years ago when I built a 440 powered 68 Dart. They had mounts for big blocks on slant6 and small block K frames, and the later spool style mounts too, and it became a bolt in job with only some minimal clearance grinding for the oil pump. I heard they were discontinuing some mounts years ago but not sure what happened. They were great quality pieces as I recall. Worth checking into, its probably the easiest way to get your project started...

[@chuckgladfelter]

I never that about the 4.0 didn't have roller lifters. My wife bought one new in 1999. Very good car.

[@GenderSkins]

There happens to be a guy on KZbin that puts a full synthetic in his Model A Ford, with it's original flat head 4 still in it. And I have ran regular motor oil in all my car's and trucks with two exceptions starting with my 1965 Ford F-100, those two exceptions was my 1999 Dodge Quad Club Cab 3500 diesel and my 1983 Chevy diesel conversion that I had a 305 in. That 1983 Chevy that I had the 305 in, had a hydraulic flat tap it cam in it, and yes I ran a Castro 10W/30 full synthetic in it. And every engine I build got built with STP oil treatment and a 10W/30 conventional oil in it, then got switched over to a full synthetic after break in.

[@mpetersen6]

The flat tappet cams in the 4.0s never went through a 2000 RPM for 20 minutes break in run at the factory.

[@jeep2nv92]

The XJ with the 4.0L and AW4 trans were indestructible. The 4.0L also had wrist pin issues. They would rattle until they got warm. I bought one from a dealership I worked at because they thought the engine was junk. I slapped new pistons in it and drove the crap out of it. I sold it to a friend and her daughter is still driving it, and beating the crap out of it. The best vehicle I ever owned was my 1992 Wrangler YJ. I bought it in 96 at the GM dealership I worked at right out of high school. I sold it in 2018. It had 64k miles on it when I bought it, and 480k when I sold it.

[@thekikendallsautoandrandom1271]

One of the things as well that helped the AMC designed inline series of motors was the top end oil drainage. literally drains directly back from the rockers onto the cam.. The camshaft and lifters are FLOODED with oil from both the oil passages, and from the oil draining back off the top of the head. Coupled with fairly low (for modern vehicles) valve spring pressure, the lifters being vertical and not having to fight gravity to rotate under load makes them one heck of a good design. The piston skirt issue is common, usually on cylinder 6, due to the length of the engine and that cylinder always runs a bit hotter (due to the length of the cooling jacket from the radiator). Youve got another good XJ Tony. Cant wait to see you swap the flexplate on the AW-4 trans sometime soon. Just a word of advice- the factory shift linkage on the 4wd is sometimes janky, couple companies make a better designed replacement linkage thats alot smoother.

[@Lecherous_Rex]

Yep, got 2 96 miata's for the interchangeability of parts between the daily and toy. The lifter buckets ride directly on the cam lobes no rollers and half the community is using rotella diesel oil for the zinc. Be curious what additives can out perform zinc, peace of mind that lubricity and other behaviors are always optimal.

[@alleyoop1234]

I'll place a bet the cheapest modern oil would out perform the most expensive oil from when that engine was first introduced back in the 60's

[@jeffreyyeater1780]

Correct

[@MiguelGarcia-vj7oo]

If im not mistaken Project Farm cut opened an old Pennzoil from over 100 years ago and had the same quality or better then modern oil.

[@gregorymalchuk272]

Yep. Lake Speed Jr. has said exactly this. Any modern API SP oil is better on antiwear performance than any historical high ZDDP oil. There WAS however, a low point in wear protection in API SM in the early 2000s, so don't use that, though it probably won't hurt an alrady broken in engine with moderate valve spring pressure.

[@mitchmasterfix5292]

Love you Tony for keeping the ground shaking with the power of classic Mopar mills, but you owe your audience a follow-up. Today's oils don't have "no zinc", they have less zinc or to be more accurate less of the zinc/phosphate compound known as ZDDP. Because phosphorus "poisons" catalytic converters the industry has been reducing the amount of ZDDP. This became a noticeable problem around 2004 when the SM oil standard was introduced with a limit of 800ppm. Newer oils are supposed to have improved anti-wear formulas to make up for the lower ZDDP levels but for older flat cam engines especially those with higher spring pressures, a high ZDDP oil (which may conform to the latest API specs) is a good idea. BTW I recall Chrysler issued a bulletin on some 4.0L to replace the valve springs. The factory springs were so weak the valves would sometimes fail to close when carbon got on the stems. Car makers run the softest springs they can for fuel economy reasons. Grab your favorite beverage, curl up with a warm laptop and do some googling - plenty of good info out there (some bad info too... check the source) PS. Be careful with modern diesel oils. Diesels now have converters and other exhaust devices that require oils with less phosphorus (low "SAPS") so you may not get the level of ZDDP you got in the older oils.

[@dongeorge4037]

I am SO ready for an engine sound program. I once tried to get an "engine sound" 8 track from an old guy down in Texas who was putting them out but he had died by the time my order got there. So yes, do an engine sound program. Maybe even do a CD?

[@someguy2741]

Video idea. Take a new cam and do a hardness test on the cam or lifter before running in. Then do the hardness test again. The hardness of be parts should be drastically improved. I think that once the cam is broken it it doesnt matter. You are work hardening the surface and mating them at the same time. This is part of the reason to caution about putting lifters back in the wrong hole. When I need to do that I redo breakin and it hasnt failed yet.

[@johnanderson2346]

What a coincidence. I was just thinking about this the other day. The 460 Ford is another example of this as it was produced until ‘97. Obviously the 4.0 was sill produced after the 460 was discontinued, but now I’m curious how deep does this rabbit hole go?

[@lb9gta307]

Small block Chevys had them in truck applications untill the end of regular production. That was 2002 or 2003. Someone could argue that the modern OHC engines that have the cam acting directly on the valves without a rocker fall under that as well.

[@LSswapGarage1]

@@lb9gta307 Every small block chevy past 1996 was roller cam. The last production flat tappet died with the TBI junk in 95

[@donaldfrederick1557]

4.9 Ford inline six sold from 1965 till 1996 to the public. Serious work horse was put in many application's. Farm equip., generator's, delivery companies vans; etc. I use Rotella in my 96 F150. Great engine.

[@cammer68oliver2]

I partially agree with ya, Tony. I was the lucky kid who was given a beautiful 68 Mustang GT coupe for HS graduation in ‘99 by two awesome parents. That’s a whole ‘nother story. But… we had to rebuild the engine in like 2001 bc of the previous owner before the guy we bought the car from had rebuilt the 302 wrong and forgot to put oil rings on the #4 cylinder and she had to be bored .030 to clear that cylinder. We bored the rest of the cylinders to match, naturally. And we had a little healthier cam in it than stock, like .490ish lift, low 200s duration. Nothing crazy. And the guy who rebuilt that engine said nothing about zinc additive in the oil. Of course in the early 2000s i suppose there was a higher zinc content in the oils than there is today. And I was a DIEHARD CASTROL guy, going to the Gatornationals in Gainesville FL every year to see my man JOHN FORCE run that Mustang down the strip back then. So naturally I ran CASTROL in my ride. Lol. And I ran that oil all these years until 2012 when I yanked that numbers matching 302 out of the stang and dropped in the 347 stroker I built in its place. But I ran that CASTROL from the early 2000s til ‘12 without any zinc additive whatsoever. And had no issues. And I ran that motor hard at times too! Bet I can pull the intake now and yank the lifters out and they’ll be fine. With that being said I also WOULDNT DARE run anything but Amsoil Z-Rod in that stroker I built. Noooo wayyyy! Won’t take the chance. But soon I’ll upgrade to a full roller cam in that motor and it won’t matter at all then. So I’m on the fence about zinc/no zinc. But I guess that little jeep is living proof?! Lol. But yeah, spring pressures and rpm and all that does play in as a factor as well, I’d think. Thanks for another great video, buddy!

[@j.t.cooper2963]

STP used to have ZDDP in it now it has just a trace amount in it even though they list it first on the ingredient list.

[@williamrosenow6176]

I bought a 1966 skylark with 40,000 miles a very long time ago,1990s. I just went out and looked at the miles it's 76,538. Not many miles but I never did anything special it got the same oil and gas I put in my regular cars and the last time I started it I used a 140 amp lawn mower battery. Turn the key and it starts right up. I think cheap cars needed lead gas and zinc oil but the higher end cars were built to last without it. They probley didn't know it would go away but used better metal in production to keep a reputation. I found OEM material for the seats and had them done in 2012 but haven't driven it since. I still start and let it run once in a while.

[@raiderjohnthemadbomber8666]

The 4.0 is basically bullet proof. I'd keep an eye on cylinder pressure as the rings usually begin to fail around 100k miles.

[@Joesmusclecargarage]

And yet still continue to run perfectly fine past 300k

[@paulbehne914]

I think Rotella changed zinc levels when diesel trucks got particulate filters so I use Valvoline high zinc Racing oil or Amsoil high zinc oils.

[@Project-gr6zy]

Ford 300 i6s also ended life with a flat tap cam in 04 with the last production industrial engine

[@oldblueaccord2629]

Havoline 10w40 since I was 16 Im 51 now. I got my last case of it on the shelf. IM SURE this oil has changed formulation 7 times since then but I never lost a flat tappet cam using it ON NEAR stock engines. I do run it in my 440. Im guess im lucky!

[@FlatTireGarage]

I had a XJ with 210k on it and it sounded like rod knock but it was actually the torque Converter bolts backing out took the inspection plate off tightened the bolts and it went away and ran fine

[@daleschuler1720]

For longevity I'll stick with the T4, just as soon play it safe.

[@krislinder7460]

They reduced the Zinc to 800 parts-per-million (ppm) starting in 1994 and about 2018 many places stopped carrying conventional oil in favor of Synthetic. Synthetic Oils with Zinc for the most part have to be ordered. With Flat-Tappet cams the higher the spring pressure the more Zinc you need to protect the cam and lifter.

[@cdogg1787]

who doesn't love an XJ or ZJ. For some reason I have become enthralled with the idea of swapping a 4bt into one

[@jaredlancaster4137]

As a jeep nerd, I just need to correct your comment about the 4.0 being used from the inception of the xj. Actually, the xj came out in 84 with the four cylinder as the only option. When they realized that it was really gonna need more horsepower to be a good highway capable vehicle, they added the 4.0 in 87. The xj was never meant for an engine that long. That's why the radiator is smashed forwards under the core support and why there's a three inch deep dent in the firewall.

[@DrYosh2]

Uncle Tony, I totally agree with your assessment of the oil situation. And I too use rotella T4 or, preferably, T6 in anything I've got that can use 10w-40 year round. That includes my bikes. Rotella is one of the few HDEO's with JASO MA/MA2 cert. That is an indicator of wet clutch compatibility. So it works with flat tappets, as well as glide pad valve trains.

[@rickobrien4014]

The right answer is that it depends!! If you have a flat tappet cam with aggressive ramps and high valve spring pressure than zddp is a strong recommendation. But for a super mild motor like the 4.0 Jeep, not needed!!

[@jseal21]

Absolutely agree. I'm not a master mechanic and have only a handful of engine builds under my belt, that being said all but one engine were street only and they got zinc in a can for initial then off the shelf oil after, but the 50/50 got a half can in every oil change. ( I refuse to go roller, just love the sound of solid flats )

[@scottrobertson6949]

He also confirmed that 4.0 uses a.904 diameter lifter which is the largest used by a manufacturer. If you have more surface area and a gentle profile the lifter will have less tendency to overcome the oil film strength. These engines won't have heavy valve springs.

[@gregorymalchuk272]

Modern API SP oils have better antiwear protection than any historic high ZDDP oil. There was however, a low point in wear protection around API SM in the early 2000s. Don't use API SM in an old flat tappet car, though it probably won't kill it if it's already broken in and the valve spring pressures aren't high.

[@theodorgiosan2570]

My 89 Subaru EA71S engine with a 310/310 duration cam, solid flat tappet lifters smaller diameter than a Chevy lifter, and valve springs good for 7,000 RPM definitely requires special oil. There was a special 10w-50 oil designed specifically for that engine due to the valvetrain and the 250 degree plus oil temperatures. No longer available. But I run Mobil 1 15w-50, HPL 10w-50, Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50, Motul 300V 15W-50, Mobil 1 Supercar 5W-50, Renewable Lubricants 20W-50, or Aeroshell 15W-50 depending on the outdoor temperature and what is available to me easily at the time. All give good oil analysis results, and the engine has over 200,000 miles on it since I rebuilt it. Aeroshell 15W50 is a particularly interesting oil being an aircraft piston engine oil. It has no ZDDP but instead Triphenyl Phosphate as an anti wear additive. I wouldn't recommend it in anything other than an engine that runs nearly 100 percent highway miles, because it has no TBN. But in an engine like mine that spends almost all of it's time between 3,500 and 5,000 RPM, and runs hot oil temperatures, it gives good oil analysis results. I always wondered why Triphenyl Phosphate was not used in automotive oils. It performs excellently as an anti wear additive and is ashless to boot.

[@jimsix9929]

I would have agreed a few months ago, but I just had a 4 liter in my shop with an exhaust lifter worn all the way through, 104,000 miles, I will still recommend VR1 racing oil for anything with flat lifters, also these 5.7 hemis that are eating very expensive camshafts, I would value your opinion on using the high zinc oil in some of the newer engines that have lifter/camshaft and rocker failures, newer gm 5.3s are also having lifter failures

[@chrisedgemon4943]

ive always ran t4 rotella in my xj and my boat with a pre vortec 4.3

[@papilloncycles3463]

I use castrol gtx high mileage which contains 800ppm ZDDP seems to work great!

[@noneyabiz0987]

Fun fact, Shell Rotella DIESEL oil, while it works, is NOT formulated for the higher RPM use of high performance gas engines. Additionally, the newest specs for DIESEL oil have even less zinc due to the emmisions equipment & regulations. So be careful of what you buy.

[@DarkLinkAD]

Wrong, my entire fleet uses drums of 15w40 Rotella T4, doesnt matter what it calls for. We see millions of miles, 0 issues.

[@noneyabiz0987]

@@DarkLinkAD pretty sure i said it WILL work. Lol

[@DarkLinkAD]

@@noneyabiz0987 Yeah I read that wrong, my fault. I will ad though, that VOAs show that CK4 (The latest Rotella formulation) holds just as much Zinc as the older (CJ4 API). In both the Rotella T4 and T6.

[@AtZero138]

XJ is just the right size.. modern crap is Hugh!.. like who that's Arm rest for ... Way over there...

[@whoquadrophenia]

I agree the zinc isn't a big issue that people play it up to be, not a great comparison but my 2002 bmw m5 175k, 1996 volvo 850 turbo 236k and my 1995 merc c220 280k all have hydro flat tappet cams. I've used Rotella in the Merc and the volvo and the bmw have all got whatever high quality synthetic modern oil that doesnt take a high zinc content into big concideration. Not only have I not had any issues with the cam flattening but you never hear of cams flattening in these car and many like them. I know its not a fair comparison cuz a cam over bucket has way less spring pressure then a push rod engine. I think the spring pressures are in the neighborhood of 110 to 130 pounds give or take. Yes I agree that a high zinc oil like Rotella would be ideal for hot rod push rod engine with increased spring pressures just to be on the safe side. Even these modern engines seem to live happily without the "appropriate" amount of zinc. Something to consider as well is the 2008 to 2015 Mercedes c63 with the 6.2 m156 engine had flat tappet cams and yes early cars did have issues with the buckets getting eaten alive due to mercedes lack of hardening the buckets. Nothing to do with the oils zinc properties and as a modern vehicle that has to comply with emissions it lives on fine with the modern breed of oils.

[@tylerphelps4868]

Diesel oils USED to have higher ZDDP levels but the stuff you’ll find on a shelf now is all reduced. Rotella has 800-900ppm. If you’re going to run a flat tappet you’re better off going with some of the boutique oil brands or a race oil or mixing race oil with a regular oil

[@tylerphelps4868]

Something I think is overlooked too is that when ZDDP and other metal levels were initially chopped by the FEDs, manufacturers didn’t have readily available options to replace it with. However now, most modern oils are made with higher levels of MOLY and BORON which have actually provide a better level of anti-wear than ZDDP. ZDDP was used because it was cheap and had a few other beneficial effects but boron is quickly replacing it and for good reason

[@adamrodenberg1557]

I'm starting to think viscosity plays a big role in it too. Some modern engines recommend/require 0W20 and 0W40 which is so thin it looks like water when you drain it out. Those same modern engines are also known for eating up cams and lifters. Lots of folks are now running slightly higher viscosity (like 5W30 instead of 0W20) oil than what's recommended just to avoid the dreaded "lifter tick of doom". Makes you wonder if "they" are purposely sacrificing longevity and durability for bigger claims of power output and fuel efficiency.

[@adamrodenberg1557]

The original high-mileage, worn-out AMC/Rambler 232 in my 65 Marlin still runs smooth and quiet with Rotella and a bottle of STP oil treatment.

[@kainhall]

I've got it on good word from a Ford tech that 5w-30 is just better VS 5w-20 . It even helps the cam phasers stay more "stable" on a 5.4

[@blackhawk7r221]

Yes, it’s all for claims of tiny fuel mileage improvements. Unless you are in the great white north, 10w-30 is fine.

[@jeffrobodine8579]

@@kainhall Our fleet with formerly E250, 350 vans now Transit 250 and 350 vans have all been run successfully on 5W30 oils instead of 5W20 oils for hundreds of thousands of miles. We had a 2003 E 250 with a 4.2 L V-6 go over 500,000 miles of hard abuse on the original motor ( and two transmissions) until it rusted beyond drivability using conventional 5W30.

[@connor3288]

It's all about politics and money. Compare OEM and Mobil 1 website oil specs for the same car/engine in Canada, Usa, Mexico, and UK. Would rather use thicker oil and have engine last longer, it's ok if i get .05mpg less. Obviously you wouldnt use the same oil in Alaska in winter and Mexico in summer.

[@silkysixx]

Me and every other Australian viewer lighting up at 3:25 when Tony says "here's a history lesson on this engine."

[@BrandonMottern-rm8vb]

Greetings uncle Tony from East Tennessee I noticed the tag in the black jeep as a Tennessee tag

[@dadalebreton184]

What else beside zinc additive would affect camshaft lifters ? Heat? Tork specs ? RPM ? We use diesel 10w30 in our Kubota tractor. I started using it last year in my high compression pontiac 389ci. I was worried about the 15w40 thickness so i mixed it half with regular rotella 10w30. Never had problem but now i buy 2 gallons diesel 10w30 at tractor store for 40$

[@garyb.4080]

I run Rottela T4 in everything I have,cars, trucks, lawnmowers,and motorcycles!

[@gurneyforpresident2836]

Great video Tony. You're analogy is spot on and helpful.

[@reloadingfun]

I can add some more data to your theory. If you look at all the pre-1996 Chevy trucks out there, they have flat tappets. There is trucks that are from the 80's and 70's still running on flat tappets. that's a lot of engines. How many engines and how many miles have all these run without ZDDP in the oil, It's an astounding amount.

[@bluetoes591]

VW was doing flat tappet cams until the mid-2000s in the base model stripper 2.0 cars they sold in Canada, the City Golf and the Jetta City. That engine was also developed in the late 60s/early 70s and used for close to 40 years.

[@oldblueaccord2629]

Would that be over head cam as in no lifters?

[@adamculbertson7850]

Great video! Thanks UTG.

[@viktorhardindyrvold4234]

The way I've heard it is that the zinc hangs on to the cam lobe, so that _if_ the oil film breaks under the extreme stress from the lifter, you still have a backup form of lubrication. However, with a high quality modern synthetic, in theory you should be able to maintain that film of oil on the cam at all times - even with aggressive cam lobes & springs.

[@jimsix9929]

yes zinc puts a coating on the high pressure areas like cam lobes, it does not drain off and is needed for engines with high spring pressures or flat tappet cams, the best oil around will not keep a hotrod engine alive without the zinc

[@victortaveira8271]

@@jimsix9929 Zinc increase a lot friction, despite lubricating. Today there are more modern oil additives, which do the same job better and without much friction. Esters base oil and high molybdenum content help more. This characteristic is what a modern synthetic motor oil is designed for

[@rickss69]

@@jimsix9929 That is not even remotely how ZDDP works lol. Neither you or anyone else has ever removed a camshaft and witnessed a "sweater" of ZDDP...it does not "coat" anything. ZDDP is only activated by extreme heat and pressure in the localized spot. What makes or breaks a engine oil is the additive package...not ZDDP or greater percentages of it.

[@superduty4556]

My Ford 300 inline 6 does well with flat tappets.

[@allhailinternalcombustion]

You could fill a Ford Six with coffee and marshmallows and it would still run forever.

[@superduty4556]

@@allhailinternalcombustion facts.

[@MrTheHillfolk]

As a gen tech, it's one of my favorite industrial engines ever. Damn things are sewing machine smooth. What a joy when they are city water cooled ,no damn fan noise and it just whirrs away.

[@charlesatwell6658]

1992 Honda Accord with 479k miles using Havoline 10w40. I am switching to Rotella next oil change because it's getting hard to find Havoline and it comes in a silly bag in a box which is supposed to be good for the environment! Love your videos Tony, very helpful!

[@MrTheHillfolk]

Yo I'm down with a box of wine occasionally, but just say no to bagged oil 😁

[@johnpublic6582]

479k. So you aren't running the break in oil anymore.

[@keithshepherd4693]

@@MrTheHillfolk or wine that comes with a screw top or in a can.

[@bwatt1383]

Wow hows the oil consumption on that thing

[@gearheadgregwi]

Honda J35 fan-boy here. We currently have four in the family fleet. 20 years of weekend wrench turning. I've worked on everything. Subaru probably the weirdest. Honda engineers are like Sony engineers. They like to flex and 95% time they hit the mark.

[@randywestrum6416]

Rosella and Delvac are both refined to a higher degree than other motor oils, due to the trucking industry’s request to having a longer lasting oil for extended oil change intervals. Another trusted oil, Phillip 66 x/c 20w60 aviation oil. Engineered for radial aircraft engines from run in to teardown.

[@jeffrobodine8579]

I dated a girl named Rosella back in school.

[@randywestrum6416]

@@jeffrobodine8579 That was a really fat finger, hope I didn’t offend. PS was Rosella well fed?

[@CharredSteak]

phillips x/c is no joke, really expensive but worth the money. always used delvac in my older stuff, diesel or not

[@AnzaValley]

Years ago I drove VW bugs and buses. I used AeroShell 80w which is actually a 40 weight oil.

[@double01red54]

That only has enough spring pressure to control the valves to 5000 rpm. If you can get it to rev past 4500. That’s why it doesn’t have a rep for eating cam lobes.

[@felixlafuente9714]

Maybe Because oiling thru the lifters in a vertical position lets lots of oil on to the cam?

[@michaellehmann2803]

That definitely wasn’t the last engine with a flat tappet cam. The Honda 3.5 and 3.7 V6 uses solid flat tappet cams and 0w20 synthetic oil, and they go at least 100k miles without even needing adjustment. Granted it is an overhead cam design, and I’m sure the metallurgy has changed over the last 50 years, so not necessarily comparable to classic car engines, but it shows that flat tappets can last just fine on low zinc oils.

[@dquad]

Vast majority of modern engines are still solid flat tappet when overhead cam. The thing is that valvetrain mass is so much lower and the tappets are twice the diameter of traditional pushrod engines that the loads on the cam lobes are minuscule. Even the valve springs are a whole lot less stiff now, you don't even need a tool to remove them from the head.

[@petesmitt]

@@dquad Yep; I've got an 80's Mazda OHC solid flat tappet cam engine and have only used basic engine oil; after 300,000 km's, I rebuilt the head and when I checked the cam, lobes like new.

[@dquad]

@@faststang85 They are still technically flat tappet

[@ratherbeboating10]

Hey uncle tony. Just a heads up but every current build GM 3.6 uses a DOHC with flat tappets. And my god they don't go flat with todays "crap oils." Film strength is honestly far more important. There are plenty of ways to get there, zinc is just a cushion. My 84 vette got regular old Castrol its whole life and the cam with 100k measured like new when removed.

[@Ripsaw17]

They're pretty much a bulletproof engine this is very well built engine takes a lot of abuse really good torque too

[@JayMalone26]

I have two Mercedes from the 90's. Both DOHC where the lobes ride directly on the cam followers, not off the side w/ roller rockers like other OHC designs. I only run factory recommended synthetic 5w-40. Never used zinc and the lobes look like brand new. And Mercedes engines (Pre-1999 Chrysler merger) are just high mileage workhorses. They're all over the world w/ millions of miles and never heard of them wiping out lobes.

[@stevelacker358]

Being an engineer that likes things accurate to the correct number of decimal places, I just have to comment that saying there is "no zinc in the oil anymore" is a figure of speech, not literal truth. Almost all motor oils on the market still have SOME ZDDP as an additive, just a much lower concentration than old oils, or current diesel. The last time I had Shell Rotella T6 tested, it had around 1000 PPM of zinc and phosphorous. I also had some regular old 5w30 off-the-shelf Dexos-rated, API SP rated, oil tested at the same time, and it had about 350-400 PPM. Not "no zinc" but about 1/3 of what a diesel oil has and probably 1/5 of what oils had in the 80s-90s.

[@DarkLinkAD]

CK4 Rotella T4 is around 1130ppm and T6 is around 1260ppm.

[@hotsaucehead]

I just did my first rebuild, and because of modern issues I used the old cam and lifters. 200,000 miles and no visible wear on the cam and lifters.

[@vega660-newchannel5]

i daily my 77 olds delta 88, the 403ci is happy with the regular 10w30 i put in it. zinc was important 40+ years ago during the brake in period from factory. there's nothing for the zinc to protect now decades later. if zinc was critical that car would not have made it this far on regular oil. so yes zinc is important, to a point.

[@6.8SuperDutyDriver]

You really think Jeep produced more 4.0L engines then Chevy produced 350's or 305's, or Ford 302/5.0L or Chrysler 318's? Any data to back that up? Thanks, 6.4.

[@MrAPCProductions]

Prior to 2005 A LOT of oils produced had much higher ZDDP content, The SM designation was the era of removal for the zinc content in "gasoline" oils. 4.0 liters have some of the smallest (lightest) lifters, pushrods, and valve spring pressures of any modern engine. Add to that, Chrysler didn't design the motor..... draw your own conclusions.

[@MrAPCProductions]

Also having worked in and around quicklubes for the last 20 years. They typically have some ultra spec deisel oil that goes in literally every car that comes through. 5w40 high zinc and whatever the cheapest brand of the week who will deliver it.

[@texasamericanpatriot8535]

The best driveline and engine ever built in an older Jeep for everyday use, not extreme offroading. You have to be doing it wrong to break these Jeeps. The heater climate control breaks, and that ain't easy to fix, but everyday transportation, solid as it gets...coming from a Jeep mechanic. I dislike Chrysler and Dodge products, but these were dependable.

[@hollowell427]

in about 08 i bought a 89 suburban pretty sure the trucks didnt get roller lifters till later like 92 or so. i had no idea they had removed the zinc from oil at the time it was bought. The truck had 49,000 original miles on it, when i sold it in 2019 it had 110,000 miles on it. never used any special oil in it just what ever walmart had in a 10/40 for cheap. never had a engine problem with it, ran the same as the day i bought it. so maybe ur on to something.... idk. But i use Rotella t 15-40 and a zddp additive in my 74 C10 just in case.

[@dumbestoyster]

There is an oil analysis channel, the brokedown the new Pennzoil ultra platinum. He said it rated very high on anti-war properties

[@Trikekid84]

Wow I did not know that! That explains why they all tick. It's probably not the lifters though, because you can't have a half warn lifter for thousands of miles without it chewing it up. How do Chryslers get oil to the rockers if the pushrods are not hollow?

[@Adriano71z28]

Everyone should read 540RAT's blogs about engine oils!

[@dalton456]

You know I'm excited that you got into xj's. There's just something about them that's awesome, mine is frustrating The hell out of me right now, built a 4.7 l stroker for it and can't get the damn thing to run. Yet I work on modern GM vehicles everyday and successfully conduct more intensive mechanical diagnosis and repairs. But the old tractor motor is stumping the hell out of me

[@connor3288]

What are you having issues with?

[@dalton456]

When you crank it over it'll spin a bit then backfire through the intake, almost like it's 180 out, I have verified that the timing chain is installed correctly and the marks lineup, I have also verified that the cam pickup is being installed with number one at TDC on the compression stroke. Even if you install the cam sync 180 out it still does the exact same thing. It's got 170 psi compression, 55 PSI of fuel pressure, I have good spark and it is pulsing all three coils, and it is flashing a noid light on all six injectors. So I'm at a loss

[@joshlambrecht2357]

Im neither a gm nor a mopar guy but i wonder about hydraulic lifters that are not pumped up? If you have hydraulic lifters i would make sure your oil system is fully primed. Weve had a few brands of oil filters where the check valve wouldn’t open so we had to take the filter off, prime to the filter, then install a cheapie filter with no check valve, then the thing primed up. Hyd lifters can do weird things when not pressurized. Doesnt make sense....hope that will help.

[@connor3288]

@@dalton456 Did you have the engine working fine when it was a 4.0, before the stroker conversion?Same cylinder head, valves, valvesprings, and cam after making into 4.7? Sometimes you need to take a step back and check the basics. Fuel, good spark at right time, good compression with right cam timing. Will it idle at all? Where you said compression test was good, i would suggest your next approach should be to verify proper ignition timing at idle. Perhaps the crank pickup was changed or reinstalled incorrectly. If spark timing at idle is correct i would next do a leakdown test to check for proper valve sealing. If that is ok i would inspect valvespring condition carefully, broken valvesprings can potentially test ok in compression test but cause problems while engine turns fast enough. Where compression tested ok hopefully just spark timing issue. With aftermarket cams always want to use proper valvesprings for the cam, and good to index cam/verify cam timing when installing them. I Hope this helps man. I remember researching engine swaps/stroker mods for tjs, and i determined it wouldnt be worth it to me personally to put the effort in to modding a 4.0. They are reliable but heavy, underpowered, and not very fuel efficient. Make sure to get ecu tune too. I did the 12hole bosche fuel injectors swap on my previous tj, never tracked mpg but i found it started faster and seemed to idle smoother, got them off ebay under $100 for the 6 i think. If i had a mint tj wrangler i would consider an LS swap someday, even a 4.8 would be much more powerful and better mpg than a 4.0. VW tdi swaps are cool too but might as well do an LS, especially with diesel prices and less available engines. Gm 4.3's are another swap i think. Advance Adaptors and Novak Conversions have interesting swap info. Battling body rust on my 04 rubi, joys of new england🙃. Not bad yet but i need to address it soon, it's like they designed the tj to rot out🙃. Oil undercoating is a must imo. NH oil undercoat is what i use.

[@tonyc223]

@@dalton456 Try a new crank sensor.

[@mpetersen6]

Engineering test 4.0s with roller cans were built sometime after 1994. Due to the tight fit between the curtain wall and the block proper the lifter retainers were mounted underneath the lifter bores. I actually saw blocks being machined in the Tool Room of KEP to take the roller lifters. IIRC around 50 were built. The cams were probably ground by an outside supplier or at one of the Chrysler development shops in Troll Land*

[@randyoehlert5045]

Running heavy pressure aftermarket valve springs on high lift cam better use zinc oil.

[@someguy2741]

I have several buick 455s and have found that 10W30 syntech synthetic works well. It sticks well and the oil pressure does not change with temperature like conventional oils. I figure its a good combination because buick oiling is not great but it has huge bearings. So I dont need a ton of film strength I need it to get where it needs to be.

[@briank1671]

1986 318 into 390 stroker, what's your opinion? I use Rotella in everything, just saying

[@NSUGS]

Tony, can you make a video of your beagles?

[@eosborne9w6]

Yes! More XJ content!

[@harvestblades]

I always try to rum Shell Rotella, but at last check I believe even the Shell Rotella has decreased their Zinc to a minimal level as the Zinc is brutal on Cats including on diesels. Would love to know if I'm wrong but that info was from the forums at Bob is the oil guy.

[@dad3562]

You are correct on both.

[@discerningmind]

I'm confused. I can't tell if UT is saying to forego using a zinc additive all together or just for these Jeep engines. ??? It seems to me that engines produced prior to the removal of zinc in oil would require a zinc additive. I'd be particularly concerned for my 1948 Chrysler Windsor/flat head 6. I've been using racing formula oils containing zinc because often zinc additives are sold out. Has anybody crushed up zinc tablets from the vitamin aisle?

[@jasons9249]

The older the car the more likely I would dump15w40 oil in it or Stp oil additive with zinc.

[@royupchurch1279]

I use conventional 10w40 valvaline in 68 camaro forever.