Under the ruler 3: tilting the ruler

Since some people say that I'm tilting the ruler to make the cart move right or left, a quick demonstration to show that this isn't the case.

[@Maxmaxz]

Merry Christmas to you, Flossy, Ethel, Carlos and everyone else who takes part in the science of rulers and wheels.

[@TomusMedia]

please do audio books!

[@wantapgt]

@Steviewonder74CEA it's just ignorance that causes most "fake" comments. It amuses me too. Instead of taking the time to use their mind to understand concepts, the ignorant just refuse to acknowledge the possibility and call "fake." Sad sad people.

[@chaumas]

I want you and your animal friends to explain everything about the universe to me. I cannot explain why, but your videos have an almost hypnotic quality to them, and your way of explaining these things is very easy to follow.

[@TheEditingShop]

Seriously, this guy can teach me anything, I'l let him! I've never been this close to being hypnotized before. . .

[@etheoharis]

OK READ THIS MR. COOLUAN! ITs not the tilt on the ruler that makes the difference. It the side of the ruler where you put the most pressure on! Right?! Let me see you demonstrate that one!!!!

[@FlyNAA]

The ruler makes contact with the wheel at one point. The downward force on both sides must be equal for the ruler not be rotating.

[@coolaun]

The top wheel is rolling along the ruler, not sliding, so doesn't have to overcome any static friction. If the ruler were to be replaced with a rack and the wheel with a pinion gear, the machine would work the same way.

[@GamingGuy118]

I still can't get my head round why this works...

[@TheEditingShop]

Have you ever considered presenting children's television? You would be perfect and you'd be very educational and entertaining.

[@noproblem4260]

good job, so to set conditions: air is ruler, big wheel a prop.. and the ground the ground . so the car moves faster than the air , in still air as the ground is left behind. so my "common sense" tells me that if you start moving the cart air and ground still, the car will go forward? I know it will not... how do you explain it in a relativistic point of view?

[@thejeran]

MORE! (Love your voice)

[@someenglishguy]

These Videos Are Cool!!!! Say Hello To George For Me!!!!! He Is So Cute!!

[@PasDeMD]

The torque on the wheel does not translate to a force that overcomes the force of the static friction created by the ruler on the wheel? Is this static friction applied to the apparatus as a whole? I'm trying to figure out how to calculate this correctly, it's blowing my mind! Time to break out the physics text?

[@ThanatosMace]

It obviously has nothing to do with angles or even force! There are only three variables in this problem. Angular velocity (speed of wheel spinning) Translational velocity (speed of wheel's movement) Radius (size of the wheel) T

[@PasDeMD]

The ruler creates a force through static friction (which translates to a torque in the wheel or a force on the overall body), I just wan't sure what to name that force.

[@bobaduddle]

How come when I try this the wheels cancel out and it does not move? Then I tried tilting it and it worked

[@132ally132]

i like the toys som peeple will say it is childish but it just helps you learn more make more vids

[@BlockHeadStuff]

Your voice is so kind a patient please make more videos your voice is hyponotizing :-)

[@jonasfoe]

What happens if the lower 2 wheels are bigger than the upper one?

[@coolaun]

If the wheels are "cancelling out" it's probably because there is little or no difference between the outside and inside radii of the cotton reels. Here, the inner radius of a cotton reel (where the blue wheel touches it) is approximately 1/2 that of the outside radius (where the reel touches the surface on which it rolls).

[@coolaun]

Just try it yourself! You could make a simpler setup with just a single rolling wheel underneath a ruler. Moving a ruler laterally over a single rolling wheel will cause that wheel to move at 1/2 the speed of the ruler. Now try to make the wheel go to the right or left by putting more pressure on one side of the ruler...

[@coolaun]

There's no need to overcome static friction: the wheels (both top and bottom) are rolling. The only friction in play here is the friction necessary to stop the wheels from slipping. It's a gearing system, using one motion to produce a faster motion, just like a bicycle or an egg whisk.

[@coolaun]

@UTJhn That's a very good idea. Unfortunately I don't have the elements to make a second identical cart: the cart was just made from bits and pieces I had around the house. Maybe I could find enough other bits and pieces to make a cart with the same dimensions.

[@J-Rod91]

You also could of just swapped the ruler out for a “level” to prove your point.

[@pocketmonkey101]

witchcraft! lol but seriously that's a pretty cool toy.

[@Buhnanah]

Can you just explain to me how this works?

[@UNOATL]

lol NERD FIGHT BELOW WARNING!!! :) jk guys

[@gracedechoes]

sounds like a german accent to me...

[@ThanatosMace]

The speed of the translational velocity (v) is the angular velocity (w) times the radius (r). When two wheels touch, the point where they touch must have the same translational velocity (V1) such that (V1)=(W1)*(R1)=(W2)*(R2). The trick here is that troublesome spindle. Notice it is thinner where the large wheel touches compared to where it touches the ground. Its radius changes, so conceptually there are five wheels (two smaller wheels for each small wheel) rather than three in this machine.

[@UsernameHere51]

Seems like wizardry

[@nadahere]

But there is an angle at which the device will cease to move underneath/into the ruler because this system is based on friction. It is primarily dependent on the size of the center wheel but all the ratios come into play, as I commented in your previous video.

[@Nordecai]

please make more vids they are addicting, I want u to teach me everything there is to know!!

[@treatb09]

act upon the paper by another gear under it and try to have the ruler power itself from the bottom, with a gear in-between the two.

[@HiroTheWonderDog]

Great stuff. You should also consider narrating a "Thomas The Tank Engine" video.

[@mox1211]

@MrRubixTV Because there's 1 gear between big wheel and ground, it can't spin clockwise when puched right by ruler. The ruler, therefore, has the effect of pushing the entire system to the right. The ratio then dictates the relative speeds.

[@red7z7]

oh hay guise look its physics

[@PasDeMD]

The static friction I was referring to is that between the ruler and the wheel =) There must be two opposing forces in this model in addition to the gearing system, otherwise it would make too much sense :D

[@ThanatosMace]

Haha! I just solved this and refreshed the page to find that you've stolen my thunder! I had fun working it out regardless. It's fascinating that the larger wheel's radius is irrelevant. Like you said, the ratio of the cotton wheel is all that matters: (inner radius)/(outer radius) I think what confuses people is the reference frame. If you moved the camera at the same speed as the machine, I wonder if more people would understand? Thank you for such an interesting problem!

[@PuggleKid]

THE CART DOES ALL!!!!!!!!!!!

[@person4646]

This is an amazing little machine. I admit I was not able to wrap my head around the possibility of the inner vs. outer radii ratio making all the difference without cheating and reading these previous comments...nonetheless, I wanted to congratulate you on making such a cool machine.

[@apocalyptica003]

@MrRubixTV, Imagine the ruler being bent up into a wheel. The edge would still be going the same way along the big wheel, but the ruler-wheel would be moving anticlockwise...

[@PuggleKid]

Terrie Rocks!!!!!

[@Nordecai]

great vids, u have the coolest voice and accent ive ever heard

[@beeeeeeenman7]

plz plz plz make more, your voice is freakin sweet

[@ProPiracyAccount]

Please make more :D

[@AlexRaato]

MIND == BLOWN

[@coolaun]

I would love to find a way to have the machine stay still with respect to the camera! I do show a different reference frame in "Under the ruler 2", by making the ground move instead of the ruler, but I couldn't find an simple way to keep the cart still while moving the rest. I appreciate the comments: I'm happy when this gives people food for thought.

[@bryanjackson8917]

If the cart moved backwards, then that had to be due to EPE. It is actually relatively simple to measure EPE, and you don't need a toothed gear system to do this. All you have to do is calculate the distance the cart would travel according to its wheel ratios - which are fixed - and then compare that to the distance the cart actually did travel under the ruler. If the cart travels a greater distance than what it should have according to the ratio of the larger of the two compound wheels to the smaller (outer rims of the spool to its inner hub in Coolaun's terms) then that indicates EPE somewhere in the drive train. Remember, all that is needed for EPE is for one of the components in that drive train to have some degree of elasticity. If the cart travels a shorter distance, then that indicates slippage exists somewhere in the drive train. If the cart travels the exact distance predicted by the compound wheel ratio, then that means it moved only via that means (torque/compound wheel). I've already worked all of that out on paper and did the needed experiments to demonstrate it, the calculations and such, now I just have to make a video of it.

[@FlyNAA]

@@bryanjackson8917 in the other thread you clearly retracted the thought of EPE being the cause of this behavior, since the gear/rack duplicate of this cart behaves the same way, and if the wheels travel the distance dictated by the teeth, then it's not EPE in action. Now, it's back?

[@bryanjackson8917]

@@FlyNAA I didn't retract my thoughts re EPE. I thought this was made rather clear in my latest video, that two forces or dynamics (or whatever you want to term them) are at work in UTR. I explained both forces responsible here - that one is EPE and one is that of the effect of torque on compound wheels. I can get my toy carts to move via a combination of the two forces or dynamics (or whatever you want to call them). Sorry if you can't do that. Maybe you should look a bit closer at the design of your toy carts. Or maybe EPE is present in your toy carts when you are pushing them along under the ruler, but you just don't realize it. Re toothed gears, I've said it before many, many times, but I guess I'll have to say it once again for your benefit (and apparently even a thousand times may still not be enough), solid toothed gears are not subject to EPE. The main purpose of teeth on gears is to prevent them from slipping when under loads. EPE requires that the toy cart be able to slip out from between the ruler and the ground. That is why all you have to do is press the ruler down at an slight angle and the cart will move out from under it, moving to the side with less pressure. This effect can be very subtle and hard to notice let alone control for. A compound toothed gear works by the same effect as does torque on a compound wheel. Obviously, if all of the components of the system are solid gears with teeth, then the cart cannot slip out from between those gears. Again, I cannot stress enough how UTR is just a fancy demonstration of pulling a yo-yo on a table by its string. That is to say, it is a compound wheel. Faster than a ruler pushing a toy cart = faster than a string pulling a yo-yo. When you get down to brass tacks, that's all it is. You guys just came up with some gearing mechanisms so that it could work with a slightly different set-up, and for that you should be applauded. But at the same time, you try to mystify and bamboozle people into thinking it is something more than it is, and for that you should be condemned.

[@FlyNAA]

@@bryanjackson8917 They're not my toy carts, you're mistaking me for Coolaun. In this very post you say that "solid toothed gears are not subject to EPE." Correct. Therefore, the toothed version of this (which you've seen) is not subject to EPE. This cart, which does not slip, functions the exact same way as the toothed version, and is therefore also not subject to EPE. Yes UTR is the same as pulling a yoyo from the bottom, as I said in the other thread. No need to stress it. But at least if you do, please say how it bears on what you're responding with it to, because I'm not following the connection.

[@bryanjackson8917]

@@FlyNAA Again, the UTR carts I am considering here - and which are featured in Coolaun's video as well as my own - have elastic components. Therefore, they are subject to EPE. When you constantly bring up the toothed versions - which as I have repeatedly said are not subject to to any significant EPE - it seems as if you just want to confuse and obfuscate the issue. If we could we just stick to analyzing the toy carts with elastic components and also consider them from the perspective of an observer standing still on the ground (or sitting at the kitchen table) where the ruler is the energy input into the system, that would be great. Thank you for your cooperation. P.S. - Sorry if I got you mixed up with Coolaun, but it seems as if you're doing your best to defend him. Also, didn't you mention something in an earlier thread about making your own toy cart?

[@bryanjackson8917]

It took a bit longer than I had anticipated and a lot of work (phew!) as I am basically a one-man show, having to do everything myself to produce this video (see end credits) but I finally got my video done that explains the real physics behind ‘under the ruler faster than the ruler’ phenomenon. Due to KZbin’s limit of 15 minutes per video, I had to break it up into two parts, each of which is just under 15 minutes in length. You can view part 1 at kzbin.info/www/bejne/emqrqGqifZqLY5o and you can view part 2 at kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIfTl2uwfMSam7s Sorry about the somewhat poor quality of the sound during the in-person demonstrations. This was the very first KZbin video I have ever made, and I just used my web cam to record it, so it came out a bit worse than I had thought it would (lots of static noise in the background), but it is still serviceable. Also, you can turn on the CC or the transcript and that gives a fairly accurate word by word description of my demonstrations (a few funny glitches here and there, but overall mostly good). Note: If nothing else, the music soundtrack rocks, so I think you will enjoy it!

[@FlyNAA]

"This video has been removed by the uploader," should we take this to mean you've changed your mind?

[@bryanjackson8917]

@@FlyNAA No, it means that I am working on a new, more comprehensive video, one that incorporates and expands on my previous ideas and includes further, more in-depth analysis. It also uses a much better camera and I am eliminating any sound problems (such as were in my deleted video) by writing captions all of the live demonstrations. (FYI, I built my own toy cart.) Hopefully I will have it all done and posted in the next day or two. Don't worry, I will notify all that have commented here and elsewhere.

[@FlyNAA]

@@bryanjackson8917 some food for thought until then. (I couldn't find your post on this video, maybe they're all elsewhere). Most of your reasoning has been based on likening the top and bottom straight surfaces to gears of very large radius, and then applying gear train rotation laws assuming those gears turn on fixed axles, and extrapolating which way they "should" turn in that case. For example, since the "under the ruler" actual large wheel turns CCW, then the above virtual wheel should turn CW. But based on that, the ruler should be moving left while it's actually moving right, so something must be wrong. The disconnect at the basis of all this, is that there's nothing keeping the axle in place; and without that in place, nothing necessitates the virtual wheel turning in that direction. For example, if the axle were moving at the same speed as the edge, then no rotation would be happening at all. You're applying fixed-axle relationships to a moving-axle situation, and it's leading you down dead ends of rotational reasoning. Better dispense with the large virtual wheel idea, and simply treat the straight edges as straight edges. An even simpler scenario, the thread spool. Fixed axle reasoning dictates that pulling rightward on the bottom edge should rotate it CCW. But it's rotating CW, why? Simply, the axle isn't fixed, so that reasoning doesn't apply anymore. The hole where the axle normally goes is free to move (translate), so the pivot point is not the axle, it's the contact point with the table. Pulling rightward above the pivot point, causes rotation CW.

[@bryanjackson8917]

@@FlyNAA I will admit that that's where the the reasoning must start, and so I started with that reasoning (i.e., rotational direction of gears that are allowed to freely move), but that's not where it ends. The thing is, if a gear rotates in a direction opposite to that in which it would otherwise rotate if allowed to freely spin, then that means that another force must be at work, and an explanation of that other force is required. In regards to explaining how it is that toy carts can travel under the ruler than the ruler that is pushing them, you guys try to make it seem so complicated with your explanations of fixed vs. non-fixed axles, and one medium moving relative to another, and frames of reference, the ground moves, etc., etc., etc. But the answer is really quire simple when you get down to it. The other forces involved (aside from EPE) are the result of torque and compound gears. Does that have to do with non-fixed axles? Well sorta yes and sorta no. Anyways, those are questions that will be addressed in my next video, questions that will be answered, those answers demonstrated, and the forces explained. A question that is open to debate (and which I won't really go into in my video) is, how much do the forces of torque and compound gearing - - apply to DDFTTW vehicles such as the Blackbird?

[@FlyNAA]

@@bryanjackson8917 Non-fixed axles don't add twisty complications, they do they the opposite and clear them up. It is your premise of fixed axles that lead to things like thinking that the ruler has to move left when it's actually moving right, that took you down a rabbit hole of many paragraphs and no conclusion. Same with the thread spool, thinking it should roll left (fixed axle) when in the video it's rolling right (non-fixed axle) There's no complicated explanation to be sought for why the ruler is moving right, it's that Coolaun's hand is pushing it that way, simple as that. Nothing more to say about it. Then as a consequence, the big wheel and small wheels move the way they do becuase it's the only possible way they can. (By the way, if you change their size to be closer to equal, the cart would move faster to the right. If you made them exactly equal, nothing would move and the system would be either jammed or slipping). The thread spool, also simple. The axle hole is of no consequence to the system. You're left with the pivot point (bottom where it contacts the table) and the point where the force is applied to the right (approx half radius). Could hardly be simpler: force to the right, above the pivot point, causes CW rotation. I don't know what EPE is.

[@electrodacus]

What powers this vehicle is the table (wind equivalent) (sounds counter intuitive but true) and vehicle travels on the ruler (ground/road) on opposite to wind direction. Due to gearing vehicle can travel slower than the wind but has higher force available thus is can climb an incline. The higher the gear ratio the higher the incline. If gear ratio will have been 1:1 this will not have worked. What this demonstrate is a vehicle with a wind turbine generator driving against the wind direction at a speed lower than wind.

[@coolaun]

The power source of the vehicle depends on the frame of reference you choose to analyse the situation. If we use a frame of reference where the tabletop is stationary, the power source is the ruler. If we use a frame of reference where the ruler is stationary, the power source is the tabletop. As to what this example demonstrates, that is a matter of definition. We can effectively _define_ the table to represent the air and the ruler to represent the ground (as you do), but for the purposes of this demonstration I define the table to represent the ground and the ruler to represent the air. Both definitions are valid, but they describe different situations.

[@electrodacus]

@@coolaun No. Both definitions can not be valid as they result in very different interpretations of what happens in the system. The conclusions if you use my interpretation represents a vehicle traveling slower than wind against the wind and that is the only one possible in real life. The conclusions you will get from inverting things results in conclusion that power output is higher than input power and obviously that is impossible since it will violate the law of conservation of energy.

[@coolaun]

@@electrodacus Both interpretations are valid. If you look carefully and measure how far the cart and the paper move, you will see that in your interpretation we have a vehicle moving against the wind slightly _faster_ than the wind. My interpretation, which is the one for which this demonstration was constructed, shows a vehicle moving downwind at slightly more than twice wind speed. There is no doubt that the cart travels faster than the ruler when viewed from the frame of reference of the fixed camera. There is also no doubt that in this frame of reference the power comes from me moving the ruler. This doesn't violate any laws: *there is no law of conservation of speed!*

[@bryanjackson8917]

No what powers this system is the ruler. At least in the ordinary universe most humans live in.

[@electrodacus]

@@bryanjackson8917 That cart has an input and it is not the large wheel but the small wheels. Confusing input with output will get you to have wrong conclusions.