Understanding Covert Narcissism - Projects not Partners

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

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[@JohnKNMurphy-nz]

That was so interesting. It resonates with my recent experience connecting with an ex when our grandchild was born. It seemed eerie watching the machinery operate from the sidelines. 20+ years ago I was depressed and discarded. She moved on to an overt alcoholic partner who bullied our children so much that one has estranged himself from her. They are still together, he is an aggressive menacing bully. One thing that stands out is her preoccupation with how things are for her and then the sheer delusional obliviousness. A sort of entitlement reminiscent of Marie Antoinette. Here we are awaiting the birth, she hands me an old phone to donate for use as a baby monitor. Then gives me the passwords to access everything in the phone to clear it out. It was bizarre like she still snapshotted me as the genial IT savvy partner. I could have accessed everything they had. I saw lists of their private emails just closed the apps and shut up, did the job and excused myself. I came away sickened that there may be no justice for my son because of the childlike lack of comprehension as to the actual enormity of what was done to him.

[@NickKautz]

Narcissism , the word, has become the swiss army knife of self-exoneration.

[@michaelryan1620]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/p2fZnaGcmdRooKs

[@bubblerings]

@@NickKautz Yes. It's true.. But, not by this man. He is humble about his own potentially 'selfish' motives. Quite moving, really... Examining whatd makes Us tick. Am grateful that he shared tthis.

[@Infinitysk]

This video is just rant… she has helped him and is now helping others with career. Yes people will and should remember her. Pls refer to professional videos when dealing with such sensitive topics.

[@dontbelongherefromanother]

Coverts are the worst type of narcissists, because you don't know you are being used and abused by them. Also, coverts don't give hints of their treacherous, backstabbing behavior, and will not tell you if something is bothering them. They tell others behind your back. If I had to choose between a covert or overt, I would choose the overt. At least, I could somewhat predict their behavior, but not coverts

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Agree, although over time, you do get pretty good as predicting even a covert's behaviour.

[@privateprivate8366]

Yes, you might be referring to smear campaigning. It was part of the reason why, when I look back on my mother’s behavior, I knew it was conscious. Because it was the typical, careful word choice of trying to bring me down, to a relative, but in that way that still implicates that she’s loving and concerned for my welfare. But, when I found out and called her out on it, she was very smirky and actually quite proud of herself and whatever pain she figured she might be causing me. So, even though she’ll soon be 78, I’m not going back there. Particularly as, it can actually be a family dynamic and my sister is a flying monkey, chomping at the bit, waiting to tear into me. I’m not fearful of that. Just disinterested in that mayhem. I’ve gone on with my life.

[@coreyanderson7424]

Yes I agree. But, they can sometimes be a bit harder to spot.

[@nd612]

Don't Belong Here, : Omg they will confuse the crap out of you. I agree with you. I will tell you and anyone this. They are the closest to serial killers. It's much more than what I just said; I don't puti it past any Covert Narcissist that they have killed before. When you see the real Covert Narcissist you will understand what I just said. It's the truth and one day many will say I am right. I know I am because it's the truth.

[@barbarastrayhorn4667]

True. My ex would talk to the woman down the street, a friend but not me. He couldn't apologize, admit wrong or admit that I was right because that would make him lesser or some such b's. This is what she told me. What a jerk.

[@user-ee5om8wy7u]

There is a big difference between helping others because you enjoy helping vs helping others because you want a reputation and want to be seen as a "saint". The first is an example of kindness, the latter is an example of selfishness. But from the outside, it looks like the same action.

[@hitzoneproductions7858]

This

[@samanthaq3422]

To enjoy helping others is also an ego boost... One should help others to make others feel good not oneself... Charity works should benefit.. Bring joy..raise them out of poverty etc bring Happiness to the other person you r helping not you...

[@c.s1393]

@@samanthaq3422 Absolute rubbish.

[@samanthaq3422]

@@c.s1393 it's not... Ego is really enmeshed in us all.. It would take a highly aware person to seperate his ego and the true self... Ego is sinister...

[@KatesTake]

I agree with "just say no to narcs" I haven't seen many narcs want to genuinely help others, most are "do gooders" to the secondary and tertiary supplies and to strangers, while the nearest and dearest are taken for granted and get bread crumbs. On another note, image is everything to the covert narc, so the "altruistic" acts are done to sell people the good image.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

I think I'm kind of saying the same thing. I don't think it's a genuine want to help others. It's help that comes with conditions, and not really for the purpose of really helping the other person, but to ultimately gain something themselves.

[@TheRonaldbaxter]

NPD is a spectrum. At least in her pursuit of supply she is following through with life help to others and not just virtue signalling. It may not be altruistic, but help is help. My previous grandiose boss was like this. The assistance offered was to reflect well on her, but was still help. The covert in my life who tried to love bomb me with horrible fake niceness, is completely empty and only wishes to be seen as the most charitable good person imaginable whilst doing nothing in reality. However, the trick works.

[@lisakaler4121]

@Fiona you are spot on Fiona!

[@privateprivate8366]

Yes, I saw this more clearly in my mother, as she aged. She began giving gifts to people around town, like store clerks and people at the post office, that she knew. But, gifts to my sister and I lessened. Although it didn’t matter to me as, you’re really just happy that your mother is still alive and with you every holiday, it still wasn’t lost on me, that there was a sea change. Ultimately, she became terribly abusive to me and I had likely been in the golden child role. My sister, who may have formerly been scapegoated, is now in the golden child role, is likely still with her. I left 3 years ago. The attempts at financial abuse, while phone stalking me at work, etc., etc., with the unwillingness to accept any professional help because it seemed she was having an increasingly good time being abusive, made for an exit for me.

[@nd612]

Cathy K: They never will help others. Especially the COVERT NARCISSIST. It's all for them. Total cry babies.

[@loveself6396]

When I improved my quality of life that’s when all the covert narcissists showed me their true colors. They dnt want to help , they just need someone doing worse then them to compare their lives. When you surpass them the HATE comes bc it’s a reflection to them that they are losers.

[@hitzoneproductions7858]

This is spot on! I'm really sorry you had to experience one firsthand.

[@SuperBlakes2]

Cause they are losers 😊

[@quantumfineartsandfossils2152]

Yes! So criminally abusive they are, they are criminals who love criminals and crime

[@2legit2Kwit]

Yes! Never level up around one. My ex covert narc HATED that was investing in a new property. HE wanted to be on the title after discarding me four times (cycle of abuse) in under a year. After I said, hell no…. He showed his true colors.

[@An1MuS]

They aren't necessarily losers... They feel like losers because their parents treated them like such. So they spend their lived trying to prove the opposite. It's not something I would feel contempt for. It's more tragic and sad.

[@PaddyVieira4]

The most dangerous thing about covert narcissism imo, is that they cycle through each stage of the disorders. They can go from grandiose to vulnerable, to overt based on external environment. They are the true chameleons. They are perceptively intuitive, except when it comes to being introspective about who they are and their malignant patterns.

[@rmiller2741]

Well said!

[@hawk4366]

Exactly. They are master's at stealth destruction.

[@juligriffin2608]

Yeah the grandiose is when they have new supply or some other new thing making them high on life and on themselves. They suddenly seem to have a feeling like they have a “self”. It never lasts. They are true hedonists.

[@BashaerB-h2c]

Yes!! When I started becoming independent that's when my mother showed her true colors! And no one saw it except for me.

[@rosss5179]

Prof. Sam Vaknin

[@user-np6tf8zx1u]

I think the distinction is that everything they do is transactional. If they do something nice for you they expect you to admire them, serve them, or otherwise behave in some unspoken way in the future. It's when the people they've helped continue to act like normal, independent people that the narcissistic undercurrent starts to show itself because you see that they start to get angry and resent helping them.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

But the difficult thing is that the transaction is implicit, so those of us on the other end aren't aware of it. That's what I find makes it so hurtful to be on the discard end.

[@nmHispana]

This is precisely the reason why when I catch on to who they really are, that's when I will immediately withdraw myself from them and if they've given me anything, it will either be returned right back to them or gets thrown straight into the trash can.

[@SC-gp7kt]

Excellent explanation

[@samueldanieljackson4675]

Spot on.. It is transactional indeed... My ex said she invested alot of money on me.... The word "invested"... I didnt even bother about money i spent on her let alone saying the word "investment" ... Gosh!... At the end it is her who owes lot of money to bank and not able to make ends meet... Its been a year and she still baiting me, wanted me to borrow her money, gas lighted me and lots of drama with new rebound, getting married but didnt happen eventually... etc... Geez what a drama queen!... Shes currently on medication given by psychiatry... I do hope she is better.... Pity her cos i do love her very much in the past until she discarded me for another new supply... I do pray to God that her npd will go away... She is a very confusing person, thinks alot, depression, suicidal tendency in the past relationship b4 me. Hope her well 🙏🏻 Amen.

[@futureshocked]

FUCKING BINGO

[@marciaheadley9933]

I totally cut off toxic and narcissistic demons and TOTALLY forget about them! Simple! Blessings

[@charlesellis4775]

fantastic answer!!!

[@goodhumanbeing3417]

i do the same too

[@cherylstokes636]

If you are the one always "helping others" that keeps you in a superior position. Narcissists - covert or overt - need to feel that superiority.

[@seaofsolace]

Exactly! My narc ex is voluteering with vulnerable people and mentoring a lot, is living in a close knit community and is always helping everybody. People think he is a saint. So generous and selfless. I remember one weekend I was at home sick. He spent the weekend helping strangers doing all kinds of things but didnt lift a finger for me. Didnt even call to check up on me. I was so hurt. Who does that?! After that episode, I noticed that all his relationships were about him helping and mentoring. He was the one who knew what to do and had all the answers. Hence the feeling of superiority. He didnt have any meaningful friendships with an equal.

[@DF-fp4cg]

My ex was like this. And at first I thought we both like helping people how wonderful only - he wasnt friends with anyone unless he could tell everyone he had helped them, and when they see you healing they don't like it. Than you find out theyre conning people out of thousands.

[@guyreid8692]

True narcissists hate helping others. They are not in the least altruistic.

[@seaofsolace]

@@guyreid8692 Tell that to the victims of Ted Bundy.

[@NeptunesGlory]

Often giving unsolicited advice...ugh

[@paceosheam]

It’s good to hear someone, that can express covert narcissism so eloquently and from a man’s point of view. I use to think that these “traits” where just part of her personality. Then I discovered the meaning behind narcissism and especially covert, I realised that I had been duped! By a person who didn’t even know that on a conscious level they are a narcissist. It really helps to add to my therapy, who is experienced in narcissism, to verify clarify and justify everything that has gone on for the past 27 years. I’m out

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Glad it has helped, and good luck with your therapy.

[@bruceyamamoto99]

I believe when she was talking to her BF, it was two fold, triangulating you as well as her new BF. You have lived this fake act. It doesn't ever change. We always knew there was something off about these people and now it's so clear. What others think of them is more important than what people who loved them think.

[@fidelmashelton9491]

I totally agree, always trying to be so helpful. Until the mask slips and then you see a very different person standing in front of you. Insidious behaviour from the covert narcissist...😣😞😔

[@scotttully8572]

Narcs help because they can't have equal, healthy friendships. They can bind people to them without actually liking them or pretending to understand them. 🤦🏼 Moreover, they get to brag to others about being such a great helper. In short, there was no real relationship.

[@silverfish8059]

Binding you to them is a really apt phrase

[@frigidmonk]

My CN shows her “love” by acts of service…ironing, doing dishes, sweeping floors, making the bed, sex…these acts leave little opportunity for intimate conversation and she likes it like that. When I corner her for a serious conversation about anything deep that has her in a position of having to take responsibility for her side of our relationship OH BOY…watch out! The deflecting, blame shifting, gaslighting, and steering around directly answering my initial concern is her 💯 focus! Yikes, it’s hurtful and maddening. 🤪🙏

[@Jesusandcoffee3382]

I was married to an overt malignant narc for 14 years, then a covert narcissist for 13 years. I must say the coverts damage to my psyche was much, much worse.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

I can only speak to the covert part, but the damage is difficult to manage for sure. I'm sorry to hear about your experience.

[@NeqMed]

Agreed

[@_tha_deep_480]

My ex's Cover narcissism became noticeable to me when she would bang on about how much of a good person she is in response to me raising what would usually be deal breakers in any relationship. For example, she would get drunk one night and become physically and verbally abusive. when she sobered up the next day i would tell her about her behaviour the previous night and how much harm it had caused. no apology or promise that it would not happen again. She would just explain to me that i am horrible and how much of a good person she is and how much she helps me and others, not even addressing at all the fact that she was drunk and physically/verbally abusive. needless to say i am glad i put an end to that sh*t.

[@patty8945]

I know two covert narcists, not easy to spot. They will show no empathy in situations they should if you pay attention and you know what to look for. I don't think you can spot them unless you have had an experience with them before. Always be on guard and do not trust people.

[@SC-gp7kt]

Clarity is priceless. Once you receive that, separate yourself as much as you can from the narc. Focus on healing yourself and move on 💜👏💜

[@valeriemcknight5608]

My mother was a covert/vulnerable narcissist and, like your ex, loved helping people even to the point where they became dependent on her at which point she'd go into her "martyr" mode. She'd complain about why can't they stand on their own two feet, she wasn't there to solve all their problems, why do they come to her with all their problems, why can't people be as smart/self-sufficient/altruistic as she is, they're all just lazy and stupid. She made my dad totally dependent on her, tried to make my sister and me dependent on her, and it drove us away from her in the end. Their overarching need to be seen as perfect and indispensable is a double-edged sword.

[@PreciousLynn]

Your mom sounds like mine. I'm an only child and always kept my distance. She 85 and me 62, she is the cruelest person I know. Even my 3 boys don't have anything to do with her and she blames me. Since I was nine having to wait on her but lately it's taking it's toll on me. I met someone she worked with and she said she felt sorry for me because I had a mother like her. Now I see it. My dad was a very unhappy man, we were very close and she was jealous. Now he is dead, he blocked her from me for years. He was a very kind person.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Sorry to hear you have this in your family. I can only imagine the pain that must cause.

[@rhondadaignault7095]

Omg did we have the same mother lol. It’s good to be on the surviving side

[@paul-cx2fo]

This is the most accurate depiction of a covert narcissist I have heard to date. I have been studying this subject diligently for a few years now as a result of two failed consecutive marriages with covert narcs. Excellent. This video resonated with my situation so much. Anyone who challenges what you say in this video does not understand the depth of the cluster b. There wasn’t one thing you said that wasn’t 100% on point. Thank you.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Well happy and sad is resonated. Happy in that I hope it's helped somewhat, but sad that you've had to go through it twice. I hope you've been able to find peace and work on rebuilding to protect yourself for the future.

[@billbirkett7166]

I think what all cluster B's have in common is an unstable self of identity. Not all cluster B's will outright abuse you, but I think the pattern that will be unmistakable among all 4 of the designated personality disorders in cluster B is the lack of understanding where 'they' end and where 'the other' begins. That's why it's possible for an ASPD person to not think twice about taking your stuff; there is no boundary that means anything to them. And that reflects perfectly well with the willingness to inflict emotional abuse, to manipulate, to use you for sexual attention (as in histrionic personality disorder), etc. A healthy person would automatically understand that what they had done was wicked and selfish and had violated key self boundaries, but to the cluster B person who lacks the distinction between 'you and me', they have no idea why you would be upset by it. For them, everything is 'them'.

[@angelamwatts]

I have done good things for people over the years without them knowing it was me and people have done good things for me. Genuine love is a free gift. Love also never boasts, is proud or vain. Thank you for your video.

[@graceb3934]

Ultimately whether someone is a grandiose, covert or vulnerable narcissists, they all use control and manipulation through gaslighting, invalidating, disparaging, blame shifting etc etc. Which is all abuse, and can potentially greatly damage and traumatise their victims. Very insightful video!

[@madisonimogen1028]

My mother is psychopath. At age of 8 i was running the household. At age of 10 and 12 and 16 i was removed by authorities. Dont ask me about what is the system - foster care and being homeless. I am still not sure what was worse. Running household putting up with abuse from a parent or being a number in the system. Regardless; i turn it all around. I have rebuild and i am not negotiating on my dignity and my health and my body and my purpose. I am honest. Humble. Strong. Healthy. I did not loose any of my permanent teeth and i am almost recovering from my digestive issues to eat and also put some weight on and keep it on and every day i work so hard on having an value and i am forever thankful to internet. I never had money to go to uni but the amount of hours i spent reading and writing and learning and dreaming and i am becoming unstoppable just be appreciative and gratefully living thankful that i do not have mental illness but i had this fire in me not allowing me to take drugs or become an alcoholic or damage my lungs smoking weed and i stood up every day fighting for my own modest living and all i pray for is only a health. I want to be heatlhy for the rest of my days in this life. I care and i care enough for myself that i left the past in the past. I understand life is gift and i get things done and i take such faith that i can pay taxes and pay bills and be humble.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Glad to hear you've come through it. That sounds like a rough hand you've been dealt.

[@nmHispana]

Awesome!!👍

[@michaelking4578]

I was married to a borderline. It was an education and a wild ride. She wanted to be needed, in control, held up as precious but her ability to give love and receive love was quite limited.

[@antiprismatic]

Having limited generosity of love isnt even half the problem it's the refusal to acknowledge the limitation or its effects that gets really tough.

[@nd612]

I really like this group of people. You people making these comments. I've been on many Narcissist sites for a few years and you people know what you are talking about. Really. You people are not confused. You know these Narcissists. Not many sites that I've come across are so precise on what we are dealing with here. What a great group.

[@martytrain]

Covert Narcissism is definitely on a spectrum because she played games and started her abuse early on for me. I could never imagine living with a manipulator for so many years without calling it out and giving it back. No contact has been a big healing factor for me.

[@rusty159753]

I thought he was describing me when he spoke about wanting to help people. I have always looked for the stranger, outcast, the suffering. I want them to feel like a human. I thought I was the narcissist until he said she wouldn't do it if she wasn't recognized. I don't need the recognition. I'm satisfied in knowing I helped. That is enough. My wife also doesn't work, and when she heard the words, "I don't need you. I choose you," that was likely the end. I am currently being discarded. It hurts so much, but I believe I may have to accept it. I don't want to because I feel like a fool. But, I'm learning that acceptance is the first step to change.

[@icwhy4366]

Ooh yeah big mistake that's a direct attack that's like you declaring war, I know because I said the same thing and the next week she was gone 👋🏻

[@KaylaVandal]

Loved your insights! I know my tiny description is a variant of what you shared, I wonder if others can relate....He would push me off a roof and then expect/adoration from everyone for driving me to the hospital.....(figuratively speaking). That, "But I saved you! I'm the hero!"....bypassing (cough, throat clear) the absurdity that he created the situation that made it necessary for me to need saving/ help.

[@jackgoodings]

Basically, they view us as an object, a project, for their purposes, and we dont know it, we dont know their intent, the suggestions they're making seem to be for us but is actually for them regardless the cost to us, our freedom of choice and agency is taken away. Them moulding our choices, beliefs, career decisions etc is a covert manipulation to both advance us for their gain (financial, social stance etc.) and to break and undermine us. It really is abuse

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

I believe the intent is to ensure they always have someone who regards them as superior. Someone who idolizes them. They have to feel like there are one or two people out there who think they are the greatest person ever, and who without them, their lives would be significantly less successful.

[@KiKi-te9yd]

If they want to be so helpful and important to you (which he was, and could have kept being), then why do they run off and deceive, lie and cheat on you? They do the most brutal betrayals. Then turn around and do the odd really nice thing. Just not the things you ASK them to do, or really want from them.

[@renztaylor5904]

Damn! It’s always that nice thing, you don’t need or want from them. They never do that one thing you could really need them to do!!! Spot on111

[@boundariessetinstone5893]

Exactly it’s all deliberate I don’t care what anyone says they are bad ppl to the core. One harassed me for 5 years after I broke it off until I had a nervous breakdown and bacame sick mentally and physically. I know his karma is gonna be ugly the rest of his days and after.

[@dolaopposite]

Same thing in my experience. It's like they don't pay attention to your needs, that's why they do or give you random shit lol

[@KiKi-te9yd]

@@dolaopposite don't pay attention/ don't care about our needs.... one of those!

[@karoshi2]

Totally makes sense. My covert narc ex once announced on a Wednesday evening to be on a vacation from Friday on, thus I'd have to take some time off to look after them kids. When she returned, everything had gone well, household was done, kids' homework was done, even found time to work a little. She asked if it has been very stressful, but I actually loved being with our kids. So she raged because I wouldn't value her enough, and gave me a few weeks of silent treatment. It was towards the end of our marriage, so I guess she tried to prove to both of us to be important. Didn't work out as expected and ended up being a nail in the coffin. Same today: kids needed new jackets and stuff for the winter. She asked if I need her advice but the kids and I just went shopping and everything was bought. So she was really upset, claimed I had insulted her, seemingly by being a grown-up.

[@selkiehimbo]

there's nothing wrong with wanting to help others- until they want to take ownership to the other's success. there's nothing wrong what they're doing- until they sabotage other's success due to jealousy.

[@kimberly1221]

I think you exposed what’s really happening and the dynamic really well! And the key word that stuck out to me was “transaction”. That’s it in a nutshell. It’s a transaction not a relationship. It’s like they don’t understand relationships…only transactions.

[@buyop9441]

Never heard of this guy before and this ended up on my home page. When it started, I thought, ‘Hear we go, someone giving their tuppence worth on something they have no idea about.’ 5 mins in, I soon changed my mind. This is a FANTASTIC insight that hits the NAIL slap bang on the head. And I love this guy’s open mindedness. Great, insightful and incredible advice. Last thing, although that transaction is unspoken, you dare break the deal nonetheless and you will pay! I’ve been on the awful receiving end myself when I finally smelt the coffee! Thanks for the video!

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Glad you liked it.

[@buyop9441]

Thank you!

[@marymcclanahan1757]

Thank you for sharing your insight into your relationship with your narcissist. I too was in a long-term relationship with a covert narcissist (30 years!). As is common, I didn’t know what was happening, and after suffering terribly, emotionally and physically, I finally got out. I had no idea that he was a narcissist until a therapist pointed it out to me in a personal counseling session during my divorce. But what helped me the most was trying to understand MY part in it. And I realized that I did exactly what you said your narcissist did. I had an unspoken agreement, in my head, with the narcissist, that if I was kind and loving and giving and supportive, he (my narcissistic husband) would be all those things back to me. But instead he was dismissive and cruel and demeaning towards me. But I kept trying harder to please him, giving up more and more of my autonomy and doubling down on the kindness and supportiveness. I had an agreement, right? A totally unspoken, un-agreed to agreement, that he would treat me like I treated him. IT DIDN’T WORK! So my recovery from narcissist abuse had to include not only understanding what a narcissist is and how they operate, but also how I, as a person who tries to be loving and kind, operates. I had to learn how to have boundaries, how to not assume that I will be treated well by others, and to stay out of friendships and romantic relationships with people who are constitutionally incapable of giving anything in return. I can’t change them, but I can change me, and I have the Al-Anon program and the 12 steps to thank for my recovery from narcissism.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Learning boundaries is probably the most essential part of living a healthy life post narcissist. It sounds like we had very similar experiences. Hope you are doing well though, it sounds like you are making really good progress.

[@mrsherwood2599]

Now I understand their projection around my giving nature. I didn't want anything back, I just didn't want to be treated like garbage. If that's transactional I'm confused.

[@petarmolnar14]

Same here, did my absolute best for her to feel better, to show her how she's significant to me (knowing her childhood trauma) and all I got in return was her projection, insults and devaluation. So I've just pulled the plug and left. Its been one month no contact.

[@JoshuaDb_The_Witness]

As I understand it, someone with NPD actually can oscillate between grandiose and covert. They tend to favor one or the other generally. I've also heard it explained, that when you see a covert narcissist, what you are really seeing is a collapsed grandiose narcissist. I didn't become aware of my ex-wife's narcissism, until she exhibited over the top grandiose patterns of behavior, which was initially very confusing. And then I started to put the pieces together. She was what you would call a communal narcissist. Had to be helping everybody, whether they liked it or not. And would use this to ingratiate people to her. I watched her do this over and over again, she left one profession and made helping her first profession. Which I initially supported, it wasn't until later I realized what was going on. People don't understand how somebody so helpful, can be so cruel, And brutal behind the scenes.

[@sweetrose813]

When I was married, I always felt like my husband was trying to make me his mother even though he complained about how she treated him! He was trying to get them eternal love from me that he never got from her, the only problem with that is all the hatred he had inside of himself towards her he directed at me! Which made him a narcissist

[@nmHispana]

Same with mine! He was not only living with his mama when I met him, but would always return back there whenever he'd receive a narc injury and most interesting is that since our separation almost twelve years ago, he's still living over at his mama's house while still using the excuse that he's his parents caregiver. Many years ago when is father was going into the last stages of Dementia, he even made a startling remark (Freudian slip) about how now he gets to get even.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

One thing I firmly believe, is that if you are dealing with a narcissist, it's highly likely the issue stemmed with a dysfunctional relationship with their mother.

[@tickety-bootoyou1850]

Yes, I have to agree here. Being considerably older than the narcissist from whom I'm disengaging, I'd often felt like a mother substitute. He pushed those maternal caregiver buttons constantly. And also being a retired R.N., he pushed those caregiver buttons too. I've come to find that he is a vulnerable, covert narcissist with a victim mentality. It's no wonder that I was so easily taken in. I wanted to help & nurture him. It still hurts that I wasn't able to do that for him.

[@ingriddenzin]

@@midlifemeltdown9028 Not always. It can be a dysfunctional father who holds a son to impossible standards. The son messes up his life and returns to the father to be his caregiver in old age. He might passive-aggressively bankrupt his father. The father is the primary narcissist.

[@taniaearle4457]

Yes, they want you to be their Mother

[@CaToRi-]

Growing up in a home with lack of love and infinite duties, I tried to always do nice things to others trying to get the affection and friendship I never got at home … it mostly didn’t work… I noticed that many people wanted to be loved, but not to love, to be admired but never saying anything nice to someone else… I quit trying.

[@sandralofgren8266]

This hit home. I'm just like your ex; someone with BPD and a self "diagnosed" covert narcissist. It's hard to find people who talk about with the whole "evil, run, run" kind of discourse. Every day is pain and I don't know how to stop what I am. I've been in therapy all my life, but to change this is like trying to not see in colour. It feels impossible. I'd love to talk to you at some point if possible. 😊 thank you for this video, all the best.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

it sounds like you have made a big step, but I'd be a little careful about self diagnosing. Happy to talk if we can arrange it. email is [e-mail]

[@KarenVanDerWalt-g9w]

Wow.. 'trying to not see on color' explains it so spot on.. The pain is unbearable!! And it's not easy.. I hope you're doing and feeling better! I so desperately want to change.. And just want the anxiety I'm feeling being like this just to STOP.!!!

[@allisonhogan7443]

When you said: "They can achieve stability....they do so by taking it from other people." Spot on.

[@Good-w7b8e]

I've never heard it explained so well. since the break up I have learned everything possible about NPD. i'm a social worker and have worked A lot with BPD, schizophrenia, etc. but she was so intelligent, and the love bomb was so impressive. Sad to say I never saw it coming

[@cmc5915]

I’ve not heard of a narc trying to help others. The narc I know, tried to destroy my career. Rude to bosses and put down you to wound you, to the point of questioning everything.

[@ckcares8067]

I really enjoyed ur honesty & being able to walk away without feeling broken...i found it very interesting that u mention lack of maternal acceptance as a possible root cause...that does make sense...i have 2 narc siblings who are hard work. I prefer 'no contact' at best. One sibling has grandiose narc disorder & his rages are very scary. The best thing for me has been to study narcissism from amazing psychotherapists on youtube. I am totally aware of narcs & their tricks...their little games are insidious & dangerous. I am pleased u got out. Well done. Time to cut ties with ur ex. Give a narc an inch...!!

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Thank you. I haven't had any contact on almost two years now, and am living a much happier life now.

[@tommiekimani3304]

The only problem is that by building you they are actually covertly developing themselves. They would later try to take all they have helped build.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

I slightly disagree, and this is where my opinion may be slightly controversial. In my case at least, I don't believe it was a long consciously developed masterplan. I think it's a serious of behaviours that occur due to lack of self awareness that develop an unhealthily balaned relationship to meet to immediate needs of the narcissist.

[@tommiekimani3304]

@@midlifemeltdown9028 Remember they see you as an extension of themselves, hence to an emotionally healthy person, they are building you but to them they are building themselves.

[@duromusabc]

Vulnerable narcissists like to choose people who are “disadvantaged” (called altruistic or noble narcissism ) - and lovebomb them early in the “relationship” (it’s actually a transaction not a relationship)- it’s a way for the empath to praise the vulnerable covert narcissist especially in the lovebomb phase of a transaction to get fuel/supply (remember narcissists can’t have relationships only transactions with people)

[@PaulDeemer]

This was the case in my last relationship except they would flip a switch and become abusive and extremely toxic when they felt I didn't need them any more. This would effect me so deeply to which they'd flip another switch and become the caretaker to the outcome of their damaging behavior - super manipulative. Thus the "hoovering" would commence. Guilt, threats of self-harm, sudden change of heart about disagreements, pretending nothing happened, love bombing...etc. Many times what was said during love bombing was contradicted almost word for word during the hate bombing, often all in the same day sometimes within hrs.

[@insights3140]

It is helpful. There have been several narcissistic people in my life that seemed to also be genuinely good helpful friends at times. Until you’re no longer valuable. The impatience is interesting. Watching them implode as the mask crumbles. It can only be sustained for so long. As a sovereign no longer codependent person now, it’s funny to watch the rubber bullets rebound off my boundaries. Like watching through an invisible wall. They move on.

[@MikeGgeetar]

I grew up with a very aggressive narcissist, and as I learned more and more about it I realised the damage that I was dealing with on a daily basis. However, I became closely involved with someone I believe to be a Covert, and as you said here, over the course of time,- patterns of behaviour began to show. I mean a personality is in itself a set of behaviours and patterns. Initially, this person appeared thoughtful, knowledgeable, amenable and considerate. Despite this, I noticed a defensiveness that didn't worry me too much at first, but it eventually became apparent that there was something else going on because I started to notice a tendency for that person to quote from previous situations, and later again, would even quote back to me things I'd said. Strange! Theb complete lack of humour in this person suddenly manifested in a third person responding to things I'd said to the first person in a quasi-banterous fashion. He apologised for this but I now had him down as a flying monkey. The next occasion saw me being ORDERED in front of other people to participate in something we'd all agreed we wouldn't do from the onset. HMMM I thought. I realised he'd gone behind my back and primed the others up first, so when I refused, it made me look the baddy! Job done for the covert....? Well yes but then I informed them all I was pulling out, at which point the covert bombarded me with texts - "but why?" "So suuden" etc and later "can we talk about this?" To which I replied "thanks, but no thanks." My phone rang 2 mins after I sent that text! Coverts are lethal.

[@kenwickcook8413]

Another dynamic not mentioned in her need for the person she helps to acknowledge her being the helper, but my ex covert is a licensed counselor who also needs the entire community to acknowledge her helping every troubled family in town... every family but her own...

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

that sounds like a dangerous combination. A covert narcissist working with other vulnerable people.

[@kenwickcook8413]

@@midlifemeltdown9028 dangerous on many levels

[@visionvixxen]

I had an ADD counselor…. Sort of overt at times also…. Really messed with my mind until a therapist I had no doubts about suggested I kept trying to handle her and ignore my own frustrations and invalidations by the covert N- and that it related to other relationships I had tried to make work and ended up questioning myself!

[@emmm_5787]

It's this exact "ever do good" attitude for their friends and family in public is why I wasn't believed when I expressed what was going on behind doors being with them, the neglect and manipulation. Cause they was such a nice and helpful person! Yuk

[@elsagrace3893]

This man explains it perfectly. I’ve noticed that she has no ability to do a beneficial thing solely for creating benefit in the universe. It’s always done for the price of reflection on her. This is so sick and so immature.

[@comingtowisdom]

This is such a big a revelation for me because I wasn't sure why I knew my ex was a narcissistic and if someone asked me I couldn't arrange my words but your video has made it so clear. He is a narcissist

[@dansaghin1]

Your relationship broke down because she lost attraction for you. It`s almost always the attention they get at work, away from you and the household. One or more guys who shower them with compliments and build a fake ego over a long period of time... It`s what happened to me and many others for sure.

[@007Tinkins]

Well said. Very clear explanation. I see this 100% in the NPD in my life. And the dynamic has shifted and my independence and improvement and growth causes him to feel useless and unimportant and unloved and unappreciated.

[@A_n_y_t_i_m_e]

It's because when they saw you, they take a snapshot of you and internalize it and from that moment they interact only with your snapshot and not the real you. When you eventually start deviating from that snapshot, then the "party" begins.

[@007Tinkins]

@@A_n_y_t_i_m_e - that is how Sam Vaknin and Richard Grannon explain it, too.

[@poocumber7806]

There is actually a high percentage of narcissists that work in hospitals which is the epitome of being needed, my ex had borderline and was a nurse and many of her work friends had the same issues.

[@desertgardener777]

On point. I know someone like this. In a online narcissist support group I joined awhile back, this was mentioned. This is also dangerous, because that they work in the medical field, they can easily deceive people and people trust them because of the field they work in. One person, tried to commit "suicide" by trying to OD on pills - this person worked in the medical field around ER doctors, so this person knew the exact dose to take that would kill them, but instead take enough that landed themselves in the hospital. Why did they do this - for the attention. Apparently, according to psychiatrists, this is a common scenario with Covert Narcissists, attempting suicide but not following thru, just to get sympathy and attention from others.

[@jessibear8611]

Exactly 💯 My covert Narc is a nurse with no empathy 😳 I think they suck the life out of already sick people while feeding their superiority complex. It's disgusting

[@nmHispana]

Yes that is very true and they are also infested with these types in caregiver and health insurance care coordination as well.

[@Lovealllife369]

@@nmHispana coincidentally enough my narc mom was a nurse that transitioned into healthcare insurance

[@boundariessetinstone5893]

Oh medical field is full of them they abuse sick ppl all the time. I’ve been left to almost die before from my illness. And have been left with an undiagnosed hip condition since 21 now 43. It’s ruined my life and potential career I’m still trying to get help. They love to brush ppl off especially those that aren’t rich. And when I’ve firmiy confronted behavior I was banned from dr offices.

[@QuiK075]

This is exactly what I’ve been trying to hear from someone as in all the videos just show the symptoms but never a clear example of how they really act, as they think that they’re really a nice altruistic person but in reality everything they do is a transaction. Thank you so much for this and I hope you’re doing much better in life as in it’s been only 10 months for me and I still have flashbacks as how could I let myself being used that way.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Glad it helped. I'm in a really good place now thanks for asking.

[@aphroditestan]

The part about "would you be doing this if you weren't recognized" reminded me of this past Christmas, nearly 3 years since going no contact, my mother sending me a gift card and signing it. It was an Amazon card, where they give u the option to leave anonymous or not and I thought it was so funny & so telling that she just could not send it anonymously. I'm sure her narc brain wouldn't allow it. I thought about sending it back, with a note not to send me anything ever again but instead I used the money on certain products that have since improved my life & my health, and giving her no recognition whatsoever. In a way im playing her game but it doesn't matter at this stage. What really matters is that I am safe from her f*ckery & I am past the point where she can reel me back in.. which is an amazing place to be. Thank u for sharing. This was my first time seeing your channel, I look forward to seeing more from you. Very insightful & spot on

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Thank you, and glad to hear you have got yourself in a good place. I may make more videos at some point soon.

[@collie8]

this is known pattern, big red flag. As you said, it's contract which other side didn't sign and will pay for it very hard. Also there are worse cases, when narcissist create situations where only they can save the situation, they even hurt or victimize otherwise normal healthy person, just to be a savior. This is pure evil. And it's quite common. And many many people fall for it.

[@sagelow3274]

My ex covert narc would take things I used on daily basis. Then watch me sweat on a hot day looking everywhere for it. I'm organized person but started doubting myself. About to give up looking but something told me check her drawers. Under her folded clothes a few items I have waisted hours looking for in front of her as she stared. Dont get me started on her creepy staring. When I calmly asked her why items in her drawer. She said I must of left them there. Lmao. That's when I started researching wtf is going on in my life.

[@sianaaltiise5260]

this was my childhood into adulthood. narc mother. would hide my most most important items and then “found” them magically after i tore up the house looking. i am incredibly organized, photographic memory of where I’ve placed items, and a minimalist to a healthy degree so i have less stuff that i can find around MY house now.

[@artmeacademywiththesaltyse9537]

Great content. My observations- in the beginning after the love bombing their work to break you is almost nonstop but covertly done. They isolate and groom you. In the middle years as you’re duty bound they recruit others, family, friends to help keep you in line(limbo). After 20 years( and the end) they do little to subvert your plans, wishes and desires. A gaslight here, a victim stance there a toxic innuendo. Watch for early red flags 🚩 get out.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

I think in my case, I'd spotted the red flags, but chose to ignore them for whatever reason.

[@moksha1167]

I was living in my car at the park and he was living in a bus. It is cold winter time. We developed interest in getting to know each other. Obviously we can’t hang out in my car as easily as his bus. However the bus was a dumpster fire. I cleaned his bus so we could spend time together in it. He always tried to make me feel unsafe for sleeping in my car. This drew me closer to him and feeling like the bus was now my home too. The problem is that he has 7 little dogs and no motivation for keeping his bus clean. Well I thought I could be motivation but he would rather me clean his bus or not clean it at all. After several weeks of living on his bus with him (and cleaning up daily after the dogs), I realized that while I could sleep more flatly than in my car, it was actually way more stressful being around him. That was the end of our relationship. Even though my intentions were good with cleaning the bus… it really screwed me over… so I think I must have had narcissistic intentions with it all. I wanted the bus to be clean, not him. I don’t think he would have wanted to get to know me if he knew the mess would be a deal breaker. I think I could have easily seen that he has issues and if I had any self respect I wouldn’t have gotten involved with him.

[@BluzIsaFeelin]

Thank you for sharing. Being emotionally removed can serve towards seeing just the actual behavior so clearly. It all connected and made sense. This was very relatable for me.

[@d.m.schwarzer3729]

this was so about time to be pointed out, because this pattern ,which you describe here keeps me -stuck - on the covert narc, doubting my own perception, because he so devalued me , when we were close, but really tried to help others improve their lives, and even me - after he discarded me, which I really don`t understand. Like why would he try to integrate me - and do all those nice things that would helped me to improve my life - but in the same time treat me worse than a street dog . So I guess the image of being the samariter , or the nice guy is the answer, but really is codependent behavior, because he depends on feeling admired by others ... Later on I also found out, he only helped out people - he felt he could get some sort of award from - others, like the helpless woman in the neighbourhood was simply being ignored, and discarded when she asked him for help.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

It's likely that it's a constant cycle of them 'needing to be needed'. People are of value when they have a need, and make the NPD sufferer feel important. It's difficult to understand, and I don't think it's necessarily a conscious choice.

[@jlewis4777]

That would certainly explain my ex's reaction to me saying "I don't need you!". What I was referring to at the time was that I wasn't codependent. I chose him, I wanted him... but I didn't need him. A year has passed since I ended the relationship and he has made sure my sons and I "need him" due to financial abuse.

[@juligriffin2608]

They have to devalue you in order to be in agreement with themselves. Not only that, but once they think you like them or care for them, you are as broken as they are or worse. You no longer are desirable. It is a self-loathing thing. I relate to that as I have borderline personality disorder, but I will never understand how they just toss people away. It thoroughly disgusts me. Even worse, they replace. I cannot stand narcissists, and I do not feel sorry for them. I tried to have pity, and when I did that I went to a dark place.

[@gregoryritchie7852]

WONDERFUL video! - my own life's been perplexed with all this for a long time - but you have made it CLEAR to me what has been going on. THANK YOU SO MUCH for the CLARITY!!!

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Glad it has helped.

[@tameracz]

Thank you for making this video! This explains a lot of behaviors from several exes and douchebag friends I ultimately nixed from my life. I’m afraid that I’m scarred for life. I can’t take “helpers” or “volunteers” or these “light workers” at face value anymore without seeing big Red Flags. It’s made me reevaluate everyone I’ve kept in my life for authenticity. I think (I hope) I’m in a better crowd as a result.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Don't be afraid to be scarred for life. Think of it more as educated for life. It can be easy to be biased in the future, and read into things incorrectly. But I'd say as long as you challenge your own thinking and try not to make decisions when in an emotional state, you'll probably land ok. It sounds like you are pretty much there already.

[@larrybrevelle]

That was a pretty heart felt explanation of your observation and experiences. Thank you for sharing.

[@eponymoususer8923]

If your ex is truly personality-disordered, I think you’re still missing 2 crucial parts of this equation: A narcissist is starving for attachment and approval. Having had a severe deficiency of these things in toddlerhood stunted the growth of her personality in the toddler phase (primary narcissism). She will feel this deficiency forever, and no amount of it can cure the damage done by that early deprivation. Every narcissist has been reduced to an attachment/approval seeking machine. You are not dealing with an adult, so you cannot give her credit for adult motivations like altruism. Classic narcissists are those who’ve been successful at using the force of their charisma or intimidation to force attachment and approval from others. They’re aggressive supply collectors. They’re confident, extroverted narcissists. This you understand. A covert narcissist is one who cannot conjure that charisma or intimidation factor to extract attachment and approval, so they provoke other emotions that produce a similar output from their target. They are passive-aggressive supply collectors. They use obligation, shame, guilt, and pity. They’re introverted narcissists. The altruism is a control tactic and a ploy for attachment to the person they’re helping and approval from that person and society in general. If the target is actually helped, it’s the narcissist’s victory and will win them approval. They will then be obligated. If the target fails, the narcissist can gain attachment/approval through sympathy. She doesn’t really want to help anyone. She wants them to feel obligated to help her.

[@robincrowflies]

Wow, thank you.

[@eponymoususer8923]

I’m not a professional or anything- just another target with way too much time on my hands. I should have put that above as a disclaimer. Grain of salt, and all. Treatment by a therapist familiar with narcissistic abuse is the best option for targets of narcissistic people. Unfortunately, a lot of us have a hard time accessing that kind of help. Sometimes our options are limited to the support of content creators and others who share our situation. I’m glad if my comment was useful to you or anyone else. Best wishes to you.

[@jomr4249]

I think people can want recognition and still genuinely want to help people. Some people with issues feel very alone and unloved, and yes they want to feel important to people because they usually don’t, if that need gets TOO bad, it can become toxic and “narcissistic” but not everyone who has these faults is necessarily a horrible person.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Agreed.

[@northofthefray]

It sounds like your ex had a little codependency mixed in. Most covert narcs are not so eager to follow through as diligently as your ex, when it comes to helping others.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

It's possible for sure. This is the problem with not being a professional, I've got a lot of experience with mainly one (or two/three if you count extended family). But that's what I found so fascinating. It was kind of a case of genuine good intentions, but based on a disingenuous premise. On top of that, it appears to be a subconcious process.

[@A_n_y_t_i_m_e]

Narcissists are in a constant flux, depending on situation, one day is classic, other is covert, 5 days after they can be codependents, after that a psychopath could emerge. This is backed by latest research and studies.

[@nickt.7305]

@North of the Fray My understanding is that narcissism is rooted in codependency. We often think of codependents as victims. However, narcissists are codependents that are abusers.

[@stellar52]

My mother and my former Ex. Hell. CPTSD, guilt, shame, depressions, suicidal traumabonding for 50 years. Until I came across covert narcissism last year. Since then, I know I'm not a BP as I've been told, I chose an amazing partner and I'm healing. Unfortunately, CPTSD due to narcissistic abuse is so often misdiagnosed.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Glad to hear you on on the right path. However, I'd agree that CPTSD is a key challenge afterwards. I always feel bad saying I struggle with it, as I don't like to admit to PTSD when PTSD is associated with what I consider 'real' trauma. However, I definitely have some associations that I need to reprogram and emotions that I have to actively manage. It's a good skill to learn for life though.

[@stellar52]

@@midlifemeltdown9028 Honestly? Being gaslighted by my abusers into believing that I suffer from BPD, made me feel even worse. It's like being diagnosed with an untreatable sickness. I believed I was crazy, a freak who is totally incapable of surviving, etc. I feel so relieved since knowing that my behaviors were reactive abuse. I am so relaxed, my adrenaline levels are normal now, no depression, no chronical illness, any longer.

[@TheRealLarissa]

Yes. I feel this way about my relationship with Religious and Spiritual groups.

[@nmHispana]

Oh yes, the "so called church" with it's "so called (covert evil) leadership" and all those "so called (covert evil) Christian" pew warmers!

[@JacqBLUEjay]

Well presented. My adult child sent me here. I have clearly been addicted to enabling their behavior. maybe it was narcissism. I thought it was just love. I was always hoping they would pick up and grow into happy adults. Listening further to you, I realise that, although I refuse any acknowledgement, I have also supported many charities and good causes. And maybe yes it was narcissism and hence, I take the decision here to stop all my donations. Thank you!

[@pillipuu]

this makes alot of sense. and it reminds me of my ex. i think he saw himself as my saviour in some way. at the same time he abused me. and he told me he was worried of me and that i was crazy and unstable etc. and pushed me alot, with "tough love", telling me i won't be amounting to anything if i don't do certain things and telling me what i can and can not be. kind of trying to mold me to a particular shape i feel. it makes sense.

[@jaydoe1287]

Very insightful. I've had my experience with someone (maybe several others also) I suspect to be a covert narcissist and i find your videos helpful.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Thank you, glad to hear they are of use.

[@cliors200]

I am a covert narcissist, I didn't realise it before but it's interesting to me now, I never gave it a lot of thoughts coz I am helping people and I am liking it, but yes I'd like that when I need help you are there but at the same time I am into charity where I don't get recognition from others, but I do pat myself on the back, so I am still seeking validation

[@CherrysJubileeJoyfully]

I suddenly understand why so many covert narcissists are in social programs.Why it makes sense that my mother, the covert narcissist, was a teacher always trying to improve things for those with special needs. Thank you!!!!! This was one of those last few things I couldn't rap my brain around.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Glad I could help a little.

[@JupGem]

Conscience (altruism) VS. Recognition (non altruistic) ….what is the Intent behind the actions? Very Insightful discussion.

[@taishoku14]

It sounds like you have ended up in a good place. Trying to make sense of the unhealthy NPD patterns in a dispassionate way definitely helps. I think you’ve made a breakthrough when you say that you can observe her behaviour almost like a neutral third party. It may even feel sometimes like an out of body experience watching the two of you converse. Although it can be - in a certain sense - liberating to deal with them on a dispassionate level, the least contact the better. Good luck!

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

I'm in a much better place now, thank you. It does help to be able to analyse things dispassionately.

[@antiprismatic]

Thank you for such a candid portrait of your experience. It presents 2 extraordinarily important points 1. The felt state of altruism and 2. The felt state of being imbued with unwavering love. These two things are where our circuits get mixed up and where fo is can reattribute and rebase the emotional state in the larger vessel of life and personal growth. That is likely why the obsessive compulsion with wanting to excel someone elses life to try and recreate that feeling but from the wrong nervous complex.

[@rodmorrison6644]

Covert or Overt the single glaring characteristic is they will play the "victim card" and will use it to gain empathy from their supply. Never getting over, or healing from the wrong, precieved or real. Constantly picking at the scab of the wound, in an effort to control the world around them.

[@stephaniemonson13]

Great Video The hardest thing to describe is the abuse and tactics of a Covert Narcissist. Well said

[@bonnielee316]

It starts at 9:30 time stamp. My covert narcissist sister helped people out because they were lesser than her, and lesser in intelligence. They choose lesser people because intelligent people would spot her out. They would see that there’s something wrong with her. The reason why they help them out is because they get frustrated with their stupidity and automatically just tell them what to do. Keep in mind, they are control freaks. Another thing I noticed about my sister is that she might get pulled into their ideas, plans or dreams; and she likes it. She gets excited about it and wants to put in her input. Keep in mind narcissists like to hear themselves talk. It’s as if they view themselves, from a distance, if you will, kind of like an out of body experience watching their own performance to their own entertainment and delight. They think to themselves, God I’m good, God I’m smart, look how I just solved that problem. This, out of body experience, looking in at themselves also explains why they love and enjoy their acting out badly towards you. So when they’re putting you down, they see themselves as cool and funny, look how I just chewed you out. The narcissism is looking at themselves doing it. But now here comes the problem. The people don’t take her advice. They don’t do what she wants them to do. Control freaks. Then all kinds of nastiness comes up out of them. When they can’t control you they feel as if you are being a bad child and need punishment. They get so angry at you that they start to berate you and put you down. So then they do this mental abuse out of their frustration. It screws you up in your brain. This, with everything else that they do weakens you. So then what happens is whenever you talk with them, you are just talking. You are not asking for advice but then low-and-behold, they are giving you advice. They are telling you what to do. They do this automatically because they think you’re too stupid. Then the next thing you know they’re getting pissed at you again. Somewhere along the line you start asking them for advice all of the time. See I grew up in this. I have a learning disability. In fact I might have shaped her to do this. But regardless she does this to everyone. And I mean everyone. So then you get dependent on them and ask them for their opinion. Then the next thing you know, they’re feeling bugged by it. Then they get passive aggressive because they feel stuck in this and they don’t know how to just listen to you and control their urge or impulse to control you. And the cycle continues. My sister now understands that she’s got this disorder and is trying to stay away from people. So she must get enough supply from work. She also spends a lot of time fixing up her house. She studies what she needs to do ( on her house ) and then she does it. So that keeps her busy. She used to waste a lot of time on people. I used to tell her, why are you on the phone that long? I said, you’re not even talking about nothing good. You’re talking about mundane things like, what did you eat, how did you shit, how did you shower? Things that nobody talks about. There’s no time for that but she would. I always wondered why and I think it was for the purpose of making you tell ALL so that you would tell all. You got so used to talking about everything so that you would talk about everything so that they could control you and use your deepest thoughts against you as a beating rod because as you know, they sure love to beat you. This is for the purpose of smoothing over that self hate talk that they do to themselves due to their narcissism and not meeting up to their own high standards. To get out of that mindset, they just beat you to make themselves not beat themselves. You are their human punching bag. They project their inner shit onto you; you are their human shit bag. So back on the phone calls. She said to me that the reason why she was on the phone so much was because it was relaxing to her. Supply I guess but for what I don’t know. Information that could be used against them later is the only thing I can figure. I really do believe it was a covert way to get information and beat them. My sister physically kicked my ass five times a day. She had an itch that needed to be scratched. She had an itch to physically beat me. Why? No rhyme or reason, they’re insane! When we were adults she was still physically beating me. A friend said, hey you can’t do that, it’s against the law, it’s assault. So she adapted and learned to do it mentally. She must still have this, “itch” that needs to be scratched. So the wife beating is for control but the sibling beating is probably an inner violence. Maybe like an autistic child does a repetitive pattern of stimulation for self soothing. I don’t know, it’s really weird though. If you think about it, a small child hits when they’re mad. So then it’s anger. So then they must have an inner anger thing going on. Somehow hitting was pleasurable for her. Because their brains are wired wrong.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

That sounds like a horrible experience. I always say I have no idea how people have the strength to deal with Narcissistic abuse within the family. That's a whole different level I'm not sure I could handle.

[@tjtampa214]

That is one redeeming quality we can acknowledge is if the person does try to help in a meaningfulnand kind way (not harsh and more hurtful). I'm praying for help for the Narc as a victim to receive education and assistance that is affordable and readily available. Of course, the obvious secondary victims of N. is now gaining speed on getting education and counseling so that is good but let's definitely get to root cause of the original child-victim who is now an adult with minimal brain structure (literally ) to actually cope. Thx

[@eahemming]

Thanks for deciding to upload your insights. I suspect that my mom is covertly narcissistic, I can relate to the feeling of being a project. When I started to surpass my mom's abilities, she would become very neglectful of that subject. I remember the first day she gave me her clarinet to play, she was first surprised I was even able to play it, then I worked at it for a few hours that day and learned some songs by ear and she eventually took it away from me. She was actually obviously jealous, and we never worked on the clarinet together again, even though I kept playing it in school until I graduated. I was learning to code Batch at 11 years old from KZbin, and I brought a quiz to her to play. She told me about her programming class in high school, and we never worked on it together again. When I picture a childhood where my mom played the clarinet with me, and we played music together I want to cry. Instead I was yelled at for being too loud, or too "repetitive", and to stop.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

I can't imagine what it is like to have a narcissistic parent. Glad you found it a useful video, and hope you are in a good place.

[@faridaashu]

This is spot on! This is exactly what I hated about my friendship with my former best friend: The unspoken non-altruistic transaction. The moment the dynamic changed and I was doing so much better than her, the covert abuse started.

[@adamnajberg4246]

ran into one in a professional setting. was just a word in the dictionary to me before. never again. wow. good insights. glad you figured this new thing out.every little bit helps us stay away.

[@musiclover865]

If she would pout, demand or become pushy if you didn’t take her advice, that’s covert. If she made a suggestion and you did what you wanted, did she let it go, but let you decide when you wanted to engage the topic again? That’s NOT covert.

[@ipekseda3087]

My sister always had someone hanging on to her life: unmarried, no kids, unsuccessful in jobs, etc. She could parade her husband, kids, job, home etc in front of them. There was ALWAYS one of these hangers-on whenever I went to her house.

[@alisonmorris4444]

It’s my experience that the help Empaths give comes from a genuine good and healthy place , authentic and real but it’s very different from a person with npd / bpd . I have learnt from painful experience not to trust anything they say or do , absolute scheming manipulative monsters who ruin everything they touch , weak unstable cowardly bullies - nothing real about them at all . Self love 👌💪, I think we are all well rid of them once we wake .

[@marieluise923]

That's exactly what it comes down to. One questions if one could have taught that love. But it's not. They have to find it in themselves. Learn to love themselves truly. Not pride not seeking validation. But truly loving themselves with honesty and loving their shadows and vulnerbilities. That can only be done from ther own insides. So it is not up to us to provide that as it will never ever be enough as they will always feel unloved until they learn to love themselves. So easy to write. So difficult to fully grasp within my own self . Muchblove to you all.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

They have to solve it for themselves.

[@DoubleRainbows-fp6ih]

Extremely helpful Thank you. I got a lot from your Emlathic Indight. This is where WE Empaths help one another. Wonderful.

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Glad it helped. Not sure I'd describe myself as an empath though, which is a topic from another video:)

[@StuftBanana]

I found your reflections very insightful. What do you think of a person who claims to always do things for others and then complains about others not doing for them in return?

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

I think it's hard to say without knowing more about the individual. It would be easy to jump to a conclusion of narcissism, but it could also someone who is just in a negative space, and venting a bit of self pity.

[@zenawarrior7442]

That does happen. In "spiritual talk" it's called an empath. They give by nature with no thought of return but somehow they get the worst treatment back. People say likes attract...I think it's opposites, like magnets.

[@ravenraven966]

@@zenawarrior7442 , I agree with you. 🕊️

[@zenawarrior7442]

@@ravenraven966 Thank you. So many people on YT argue or are rude. Appreciate the response 😊💌💛👐🕊🌷🍹🌏

[@Koali2011]

Thier vulnerability is false. They play the victim. It's all a farce to manipulate.

[@savvydavvy3463]

Interesting perspective...right up until the belittling & abandoning stages come crashing down.

[@jmfs3497]

I like to be good at what I do, and work toward my strengths, but I don't need to feel superior to anyone else. I encourage others to be their best. After 15 years of growing and creating value with my strengths, a coworker was promoted into management and instantly implemented behaviors as if everything I was doing was a punishable offense. He never articulated what exactly I was doing wrong, just that I had a bad attitude as he triangulated around me and dismantled my processes and professional relationships by putting himself between me and the people I worked with. He seemed offended that people liked working with me and that I was happy and successful. It took me five years to learn he is a narcissist, and the damage is done and no one did anything to address it. I feel like a crazy person for speaking up about it. Many of the best people have moved on to other jobs, but it was like my team were all hoarded and trapped by our manager somehow. There has been enough of a turn over now that most people weren't here when I was happy and successful, and I feel even more disconnected from reality. I'm applying for other jobs and back in school, but it is such a mind-bender to wake up from it to realize I am not a bad person, and that I was getting upset because I was being abused, and that no one seems to understand it.

[@jessicaderosa9625]

She sounds pretty good. My ex , a grandious narcissist tryied all to destroy my career and my whole life

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

This is just a small aspect I was dialling in on to illustrate one aspect.

[@genedhallinc]

No it all, controlling, arrogant, but the covert does in a way that they say they're HELPING and they CARE about you. 2 days later they'll be bashing you for something.

[@adventureawaits9034]

Your a brave man, 48 hours with a covert narcissist. Hope you did not give too much away, you know all to well how they will use any good you have against you. I would not even want to spread 10 mins with my covert, let alone 48 hours. Personally I would walk away for good. That is unless you have kids with her then have as little contact as possible.

[@bubblerings]

This is the most insightful video about Coverts, that I have seen (from a non-psychologist). I had a similar 'ex', who denied that I was one of her Projects. 😂

[@midlifemeltdown9028]

Thank you for the kind words.

[@bubblerings]

@@midlifemeltdown9028 I had to come back and watch this again.. Was laughing the whole second half, once I realized the Gaslighting going on.. on both sides of your head!! Hahaha!!! 😋 Brilliant touch.. Cheers!