Understanding Cymbal Weight vs. Size | Ep. 4 - Cymbal Sounds

[@dalekay9ine]

A cymbal I own that has surprised me the most has to be my Istanbul Agop Mantra 22" ride. It has excellent stick definition, the range in which it still projects from hitting it lightly to harder is the largest of any ride I've ever owned, it has a great crash sound, the bell cuts through louder amps and the cymbal overall is just so musical. I could see it being used with jazz, country, rock to metal. Very versatile and amazing sounding ride.

[@timm1139]

I’ve been chasing a certain cymbal for years, even trying out several at local stores of the same make and model to no avail. One was recently posted online with a recording of the seller playing the cymbal. It was the sound that I was looking for! When it finally arrived, I’ll admit that it wasn’t exactly as I remembered, but it had that same “special something” that I needed & I’m quite happy with my purchase. For those who are interested, it’s a Paiste 2002 heavy rock ride, 22” weighing 3698 grams… yes it’s a beast, but it makes me happy!

[@samdavparsley8266]

Perfect- so glad you’re covering this. I’m probably 3 months into drumming (at almost 55). So all the knowledge you share and others too is greatly appreciated. Excellent! Rock on man!

[@nowytends8947]

Dear sir, that Acrolite snare is SO versatile… that's a jewel !

[@littledrummerboyph]

I've been on a cymbal quest for the last few years- I took a chance on one that was ordered and shipped via Facebook Marketplace, and absolutely loved it. Still my favorite cymbal I own. Set out to find ones that would pair well with it, and started to struggle. I ultimately completed my setup with a combination of online and local(ish) in person shopping. A helpful thing for comparing online cymbals was, with the prerequisite of having a good quality demo, dropping audio of the cymbal into studio audio of my kit and seeing how it played with the rest. I used this method to decide on my last cymbal purchase, and it worked really well! I realize not everyone can do that, but if you can, I recommend it. Obviously, it doesn't take feel into account, but if you're getting a rough idea of that from the weight/size, the sound is the bigger question mark.

[@ziccuj]

Great video, thanks! I noticed the 22" K Constantinople was accidentally labeled: 20" - 2700g in the video, no biggie. My 22" K Con Medium is 2748 grams whereas my 22" K Con Medium Thin Low is exactly 2500 grams. There's a huge difference in pitch and crashability even though the difference in weight is less than 250 grams. Then again my K Con 20" Medium is 1992 grams and my K Con 20" Renaissance is 1880 grams. Big difference also between these two guys, but it makes sense, since they're from different "sub-series". Both are great and musical: the Renaissance is a tad less bright and maybe a bit drier too, great for jazz and slightly quieter situations.

[@formsaudio]

Nice! I just got all the stuff to start making my own cymbals and from what I can tell this overall weight/ density distribution sensibility seems very front-and-center among cymbalsmiths. Great video as always! 👍

[@eugeivashchenko758]

Not on topic but I picked up a used Inde Snare for cheap. The build and sound out of that thing was incredible! Why the whole isn't going absolutely go nuts for this brand, I don't know.

[@goodtimejohnny8972]

Interesting topic. I've always bought cymbals as sets due to cost comparison. Many companies market the sets more so than individual cymbals. If I went down to the nerdy stuff such as weight or bought from brands that don't offer sets I would go broke. For example I once priced just a ride cymbal and quickly learned it was over half the cost of a set that contained it. It's kinda like you pay for the luxury of selecting a single cymbal based on weight, style and sound. Most definitely no two cymbals ever sound exactly the same even if they are manufactured the same way.

[@SebCo77]

Werever I can, I try cymbals in person. In that case, I don't care about the exact weight at all. However, it's good to know about weights if you buy based on audio, without being able to play the cymbal in person. Listen to a lot of online samples, note how with the same model differences in weight influence the sound. Weigh the cymbals you own for reference etc. but as mentioned, it's not the only aspect influencing the sound by far.

[@uniiin]

Wow! I am incredibly surprised to see Craig Lauritsen's cymbals on this channel! Known about him for about 14 years now and I have always wanted to own one of his cymbals!

[@kushking420]

I majorly use 18" and 20" crashes, I took out my old 16" AAX Fast crash, and it sounded like a splash, and very bright. Lol it was shocking at first. But I have also played with darker cymbals over the years. Great Video

[@dalekay9ine]

I feel like people worry about weight with rides more so than any other cymbals on our kits. I've definitely used the weight of a ride I really loved to zero in on another ride I'd also enjoy. Good starting point but nothing like throwing a cymbal on your kit and using your ears to ultimately decide.

[@mcovey2020]

And if you’re gonna buy in-store, in-person, irl…for the love of god bring some cymbals of yours for reference. Even if you’re not buying a new cymbal explicitly to be played with the cymbals you bring. There are so many variables that it’s important you have a way to establish a baseline for the sound/feel of new cymbals in a new room

[@martenmanna]

What's the exact model of that 20" K Con, is it the Medium Thin Low? I love the sound of it!

[@carlupthegrove262]

I bought ONE cymbal on line.... never again. I still use it occasionally but, had I hit it and listened to it before I bought it I would have passed on it and gotten something else. Lesson learned. Thanks for the video.

[@marcpompette7431]

Yep...guilty 🖐️ Cymbal turned out sounding good but not what I expected! Lesson learned!

[@camdendebruin6667]

I also have a Sabian raw ride that I got modded by Timothy Roberts, and man, I'm going to be doing that with so many cymbals in the future. I loved my raw ride for years, but it had some hums and didn't quite fit the music that I wanted to play. Such an incredible service for a tiny fraction of the cost of a new cymbal.

[@kvmalley]

Hey @camdendebruin6667 I scored a clap stack from Tim a few months back, and have been following him closely since. I have a boatload of cymbals but haven’t found that holy grail ride again yet, after losing one many years ago. Lesson learned about loaning gear! Do you mind my asking what he charged to mod your cymbal? I know I could get with him but I’ve been curious about this lately, as I’ve acquired a few new (used) ones lately. Thanks for your comment!

[@camdendebruin6667]

@@kvmalley He charges 150 USD for a standard cymbal mod with lathing and hammering. It was a really cool process to describe the sound I was desiring to him and then hearing his interpretation both with a mid-mod video update and in-person. If you like thinner cymbals with softer bells he's definitely a great choice. Patina and other accessories can be added for an additional cost, too.

[@edwardkaminsky8142]

​@@camdendebruin6667 was curious about Timothy's pricing. Thank you

[@drummerbraves]

I like the sound of the K Zildjian cymbals and Zildjian cymbals in general especially the K hi-hats and the 18 inch K Custom Fast Crash that I have. Hopefully we can get to see you discuss about crashes and hi-hats and the weights and sound of them and also discuss about the alloys of cymbals on the B8's (Zildjian I's), B12's (Zildjian S's) and B20's (A, K, A Custom, K Custom and Z Custom) and about the quality of them.

[@jasonb2180]

I focus on weights a LOT. I really prefer heavy rides (a number in the 3800g area in my collection), and this video was interesting for sure. Same with crashes - I like a little more weight to make them clear and cutting, but not too heavy! So, this verified some of what I already have seen in my own searches for cymbals, but I liked the head-to-head comparisons. Thanks, as always!

[@johncollins5552]

There are unique cymbals made by the awesome company UFIP they are made using a special process called RotoCasting, the molten metal alloy actually is spun as the cymbal blank is created. This gives a special consistency to the whole cymbal and the most pure bell sound. It sounds like a gimmick but I play a mixed set of cymbals including Paiste and Sabian with my UFIP hats and flatride but no other manufacturer can match the UFIP quality. I advise every drummer to try some out, they are not widely distributed outside of Europe but anyone can look up some videos and see/hear them! Yes the weights vary a lot also 😂

[@johncollins5552]

My hats are old, I have them since 1995 as a beginner getting lessons, then rehearsing and gigging as an indie rock student band, gigging as a pro then after Uni, solid throughout decades of use including some teaching and also studio recording. Cant ask for more, they have aged better than I have😂.

[@DreamyBongos]

Is there an Ozempic for Cymbals?

[@Sebastian-wv2to]

I would really be interested in a video about the correlation between a crash or ride cymbals diameter and the cymbal bulding up swing when you hit a specific cymbal at a certain bpm. Suppose its a matter of the cymbals resonance frequency (like that of a pendulum) that you sometimes strike and which can be quite annoying, when the cymbal builds up swing if you hit e.g. an 18" with 4th notes at ~200 bpm. How do you deal with that issue, other than buying one more crash cymbal with a different diameter or switching to 8th notes?

[@RedToxy-rc7ev]

Discussing about weight we must remember about profile height. High profile make cymbal rigid and higher pitch, better to cut but fundamental are unpleasant without mix with another instruments (especially on decay).

[@PlebPhurgusson]

Excellent observation 😮

[@Joethedrummer]

Super video, thanks. I have always found buying cyms to be a total gamble. I've gone into shops with my own cyms and tried everything in stock until i got that aha! But in the practice room or venue the cym sucks. Buying online is a game. I would never buy new so i got used to buying, trying and selling on if necessary

[@CraigFlowersMusic]

Being a B8 guy, I'm not sure how much this applies to me, but I gotta say wow I don't know how long it took to make that intro montage with all the different cymbals, but it looks phenomenal.

[@aaronsudasna]

“Being a B8 guy” is something I thought I’d never read 😂. To each their own sound I suppose

[@CraigFlowersMusic]

@@aaronsudasna What’s wrong with Paiste? I use 2002s and Giant Beats. Pretty sure those are ubiquitous rock cymbals but ok? Tbh I’m surprised to see a reaction like that. 2002s are everywhere, and they’re awesome. What are you talking about lol

[@llRoBoBinHoll]

@@CraigFlowersMusicimo 2002 cymbals are a sound that’s usable. But I’d never want to play just B8 cymbals. There are just a lot of sounds you’re missing out on. And I’d never feel the need to be loyal to any brand/type of instrument, period (unless I’m paid handsomely).

[@CraigFlowersMusic]

@@llRoBoBinHoll I have a lot guitars and amplifiers, but I only have one drums set, bass guitar, and voice. So I have a sound for sure. Even though I do all kinds of different things with guitar. But on drums it took me years to find my favorite sizes and sounds. In fact my wife still shudders at the memory of the years I spent cymbal shopping lol

[@vandavis000]

Paiste has perfected thier 8 bronze ots cusn8 bronze most use b not paiste. Cusn 15 in signature. I know rest makers say b8 b10 b12 b20 paiste cusn 8 cusn 15 cusn 20.🎉

[@supacrispy]

Chasing my perfect ride sound. Crashability isn't as huge a factor for me, as I'm wanting a nice cutting bell and good stick definition while riding. Currently running a Meinl 22" custom dark crash/ride that sounds good, but not great. I find myself leaning towards the Paiste line, though open to ideas on a nice heavy ride.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

What if we told you that a cymbal can have a cutting bell, good stick definition, AND be crushable without sounding like some sort of sad compromise? It’s possible!

[@supacrispy]

@@SoundsLikeADrum I like this. I know they are out there, but finding that unicorn ride is quite the hunt. Do you have one (aside from the custom ones you guys love to play) that you would recommend?

[@dieharddrums6343]

Check out the Paiste Rude Ride/Crash. More ride than crash but still crashable, and has a great bell.

[@Joethedrummer]

​@@SoundsLikeADrum that's a 21" Sabian HHX Groove Ride in my collection

[@andrewholland21]

@@supacrispyGiant beats or big beats. I only run hats and a 22 inch Giant Beat. It does absolutely everything I could ask it too.

[@kushking420]

It's sad so many music stores have closed, and it makes it hard to try drums, cymbals, and pedals locally

[@marc8vino]

It would be cool to hear 3 rides that are the same model and size and almost the same weight. For example 3 22" light K rides.

[@marc8vino]

I have tried out in the store and even bought several same size and models and picked my favorite. They sounded different for sure but also had the same vibe.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

We could make that happen with the help of a cymbal company. Let your preferred brand(s) know- we’re into it!

[@mattdadrumme]

Zildjian please 🙏

[@user-nf2wk9yx8z]

Zildjian because they are so good but so variable.​@@SoundsLikeADrum

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Be sure to let THEM know- they’re the ones who need to hear from you about making this happen.

[@boomerguy9935]

I've been on a quest for the perfect cymbals for decades. Two very important factors in addition to the size and weight, are the shape of the bell and the type of lathing. For example, I have a matched pair of thin hi hats (Zildjian Avedis - pre "A-Series") that I bought new in 1966 which are close in weight (720 grams top/685 grams bottom) with the top one having a tall bell and fine lathing, the bottom one with a shallow bell and wide lathing. The top is much brighter than the bottom one and they have a super "chick". (This was before Louis Bellson asked Zildjian to make what is now known as "New Beats" with the much heavier bottom cymbal.) To get a darker sound, I match a top Zildjian Avedis cymbal from another pair I have from the same time period with lathing similar to the original bottom cymbal, but with a taller bell similar to the original thin top cymbal and weighing 875 grams. I still get the same "chick" but a darker overall sound. Size and weight are very important. So are shape and lathing. Lots and lots of combinations and permutations, as a mathematics teacher would say.

[@drummercarson896]

I love my Sabian cymbals

[@TuanNguyen-vt5in]

Review this snare and go to the shop

[@myangazurgaa6395]

First 🎉

[@anthonystokes1473]

@soundslikeadrum No discussion of how weight affects pitch? Typically if you compare the same model and size, the geavier cymbal is pitched higher. This is demonstrated most easily with splashes and smaller cymbals. I recently compared two 2002 8" splashes of 150 and 149 grams. Even a gram difference in weight of a cymbal that small makes a huge difference to the pitch. I pay A LOT of attention to this because one of the most important things to me as a drummer is the interval between cynbals when i play them.

[@davidsuprenant2782]

Boys and girls,play them b4 you buy them., they aint cheap and once you play them there conciderd used.!!!!Be careful!!!!!