Understanding Frame Data and Developing Knockdown Setups

Frame data gif: / 678705677141991430
Long boring lecture.
Twitch stream: / brian_f
Twitter: / bri4nf

[@stupidstickchild25]

Oh man this gif is still being used XD. I'm the actual creator. I believe I made this for SC4 almost 10 years ago. I'm just glad to see it still helping people.

[@MishimaTyler]

Thank gosh for this gif, I think fighting game developers are missing an entire group of people playing games just by making their games confusing asf. Not that I don’t think they should be hard, but this should be explained in games.

[@soupboy-yn8oz]

:)

[@petergriffin3790]

Very nice for the basics of any fighting games

[@VideoJinx.]

Hey did you make anymore gifs like this? Ide like to see the frame data for other moves too

[@evilshinobi7712]

I think this is what will finally help me understand and be able to play fighting games properly, thank you.

[@MegaBreez3]

All this time I thought I was crazy and I just didn't understand that I was doing things to early. This really clears up why in my head I was seeing moves connect but not registering. I was Waaay to early. One of if not the best videos on frame data hands down. I seriously got a eureka moment watching this. Good fucking stuff my guy.

[@atumhotep833]

I play 3rd strike. I have the 3rd Strike mook from 1999. That graphic is wrong for Ryu. That is far standing jab. 4 frame start up, 3active hit frames, active on frame 5, base recovery is 4. In the mook it reads like this 4/3/4 Advantages on page 45 for Ryu read like this. +4/+4/+4. Gaurded/ Hit standing/ Hit while crouching.

[@VandalHeart383]

WTF? I've been playing SF since Super NES SFII Turbo. I thought I was really decent until people started talking frame data. When I decided to see what's this all about, I'm greeted with Math Fighter V. This blew my mind. It's so complicated, but also intrigues me to learn this to be a better player.

[@Vaith]

it wasn't me officer i swear i was framed i thought it was + on block!!!!!!

[@JiBbo]

great work!

[@fifty5six6]

Great Video. One of the better frame data explanations out there. I finally have a video that easily explains frame data and meaties to my buddies. Thanks for saving me the breath Brian!

[@MarkNante]

Very good video. Few questions still remain for me, especially regarding the priority system. What if both players connect in the same frame data exactly, while also using the exact same punch? For example 3 start-up frame light punch? Who gets hit? Both I assume?

[@Brian_F]

Yes if the moves have same priority and hit on same frame, both get hit. It's called a "trade"

[@skytentheknight3294]

This is following along with meaties and set-ups: if the attack does not connect do you account for recovery frames

[@trilodroid3628]

6:15, if you have a 3 active frame move, and "normally +3 on hit" you can also be +4 or +5 on hit if you hit with later active frames. AH HA, Urien's weird should tackle charge explained.

[@trilodroid3628]

18:42 good example of hitting them on last active frame to make a new combo

[@dagg9699]

you are my stfv sensei, thank you for that man.

[@trilodroid3628]

2:45 the first frame of active overlaps the last frame of startup.

[@shinzeamon5526]

Thank you so much for this! Definitely subbed!!!! Was interested in Necali and Balrog and this channel has all the techs that I need to improve!!

[@TonyTouch831]

Could you do a video on block stun and frame traps. Im a beginner and I want to know what my options are when I do safe moves.

[@MakoraNi-]

very informative and well explained Video, nice

[@xvs8675]

Great video, but a couple questions: 1. Why do you decrease the total frame count by 1? Is that an SFV specific thing? Because I will be applying this knowledge to Netherrealm games. 2. Say you know stats of the opponent's wakeup, so you don't have to framekill to figure it out. Why not use a 4 frame startup normal LATER into the wakeup? Instead of whiffing, it would hit right? You just wouldn't be using those other frames prior. Thanks in advance.

[@xvs8675]

Okay, okay. Helps a bunch. Thanks!

[@mikehawk8385]

So I've asked a ton of people "Does Startup include the first active frame?" and they always say no, but your graphic would indicate otherwise

[@mikehawk8385]

god bless :')

[@mikehawk8385]

@@j0habba It do be like that, I believe I was getting confused by some tekken frame data sheet when I wrote that. Bless up

[@mrosskne]

I'll be sure to implement this while I'm stuck in an infinite combo in the corner

[@anomrac21]

Nice... I'm building a game with fighting elements in it... I want the fighting system to be like an SF fighting game without so many Special Moves... I'm studying the frame data in SF to try to replicate it in my game. Super helpful, all that's left is to figure out how I should implement it. Thanks bro this helped a lot.

[@luraundo2293]

I gotta remember to meaty when someone tries to do a wake-up grab, but whenever I see my opponent with 1 CA bar or more filled, then I need to block to be safe and Punish them.

[@lonewolfsx7135]

Awesome breakdown

[@lennarthoekveen9339]

Do startup frames always start the first frame after inputting the button?

[@kaleidoslug7777]

Assuming your character is in a neutral state, yes. If you're in a non-neutral state like blocking though they will instead start whenever you enter that neutral state

[@SampleMehard]

Amazing man. Best I have found for this can you link more... Or do more?

[@darklesslight5746]

great video, wish there were more like these, thank you sir

[@trinichinee6426]

Love the vid man Real in depth 👍🏽

[@thecrimsonpugilist]

Thank you for this!

[@jochoaaguirre]

Nice video man, keep up the good work.

[@shikamaru526]

The graphic is slightly incorrect. The advantage of the move is +3, and +4 on late hit

[@HatsonFGC]

Hitstun / Blockstun is applied on the same frame you hit with a move, not 1 frame afterwards. When a move connects, appropriate hitfreeze (when the game freezes to help with visually confirming things in fighting games) is applied immediately. However, canceling into a move begins on next frame, as you can't hit with move X and cancel into move Y on the same frame, the cancel starts on the next frame. Example, before Season 2, Nash's st.MP was like this: 6fr startup, 3A, 13R: +2/0 It had 18 frames of hitstun, and 16 frames of blockstun. When canceled, this move would combo into HK Scythe (17fr startup), but not LP Tragedy Assault (18fr startup). That is because, the move hits; hitfreeze goes into effect (game freezes on that frame, hitstun is applied), and he buffers the cancel into HK Scythe / LP TA, the hitfreeze ends, and the buffered moves startup immediately as the next frame starts after the hitfreeze. Effectively what that means is; You have to factor in that cancels start on the next frame (You can see this by just viewing gameplay frame-by-frame), so if a move has 18 hitstun, it's only going to combo into cancels 17fr startup or faster (assuming it can cancel immediately, some moves can't, but that's an entirely different discussion and balancing mechanic all together). But in Season 2, they added 2 frames of recovery on Nash's st.MP: 6fr startup, 3A, 15R: +2/0 The frame advantages were kept the same meaning it now has: 20fr hitstun, 18fr blockstun His st.MP can now combo into 19fr startup moves or faster (if canceling into them), this includes LP TA, which he couldn't combo into via canceling before in S1.

[@HatsonFGC]

The thing is, I've seen many people explain it like the graphic does, and in the end, it doesn't really matter which version you use, because all that's really happening is you're moving the info by 1 frame, which doesn't really affect the overall results of that move itself. Like say a move has 5 active frames and 12fr recovery: 0/-3 You could say that it applies hitstun/blockstun on first frame: 17 hitstun / 14 blockstun Or you could say that it applies hitstun / blockstun 1fr later: 16 hitstun / 13 blockstun Neither one affects the results of the move being: 0/-3 And say you were canceling into a 16fr startup move, it would make sense at a quick look how both of them would combo into it. The version I told you about is just a tiny bit more complicated (basically assume -1 when knowing if a move can combo into something when canceled, similar to how when counting total frames of a move). Some places here and there use either version, it's not really important which one you go by, the final results will be the same overall depending on how you read it.

[@HatsonFGC]

By the way, great video! A bit lengthy but pretty good introduction to Framedata / Oki.

[@blackoozaru1916]

fuck, i love you for this video, why anyone explain this things like that? i want to jump in to the lab right now and try myself how to do it. Thnx so much man!!!!! btw, almost master league =)

[@streetdreamz8056]

i think its pretty crazy how good ive got without even thinking about frame data. props to all that have hit warlord level using this data tactic cause this would take some serious studying to master every little number and amount of frames for each technique. good stuff man

[@motivationtheory6999]

U on the ps5 bro?

[@streetdreamz8056]

@@motivationtheory6999 yeah iam My street fighter id is Str8_Nightmare84 hit me up

[@motivationtheory6999]

@Street Dreamz oh snap! Bro do you get this frame data? Stuff? I'll add u in like 30 mins

[@streetdreamz8056]

@@motivationtheory6999 no i dont, i just play off of feel.

[@thatguy8841]

.

[@franciscodiaz882]

I was wondering why I can't win with m bison .I guess I'm stacking to fast.I always get blocked

[@bradastrike8586]

New stuff to practice

[@39dill]

love this

[@kjkh3104]

I dont unserstand the frame kill moves. Why do you have to frame kill? Cant you just.. Wait the frames out? And do the attack abit later?

[@Brian_F]

The frame kill gives you the exact same result every single time, 100% reproducible. If you try to eyeball it the odds of getting hit by wakeup button is high. Also, if you do the right frame kill, you can hit your move meaty and guarantee new more damaging combos. Also I think this video covers why you want to do this stuff lil

[@MetatroN197924]

Frame kill is based on the concept of setplay.

[@jbass1986]

I've seen frame data for balrog and it says like "KD 22/27/71" what does that mean?

[@Brian_F]

Joshua Bass that probably means "knock down" frame advantage. Quickrise/back roll/no recovery. Back roll is always 5 more frames of recovery than quick rise

[@jbass1986]

Brian_F ah that makes sense thanks for the info!

[@MRSTU1210]

Well good subbed

[@saifalbarwani9800]

finally I get it

[@bk-wi3wo]

Sf just became an algebra class lol

[@MetatroN197924]

Always fighting games was algebra,from the age of ssf2t,in the past we did't have access to framedata and it was supposed from many that didn't existed or didn't played a role back then.I was not knowing what framedata mean till the age of sfiv,this doesn''t mean that i haven't used in the past,it was empirical visual knowledge back then,you made things that worked without knowing the reasons behind all the concept.

[@fXoKDM]

How to tec grabs man

[@Neruk01]

Ty a lot

[@unclewreck7901]

Aye Brian this is Getwrecked, the Urien player from yesterday I didn't rage quit the Game got disconnected due to Dem survers sorry fam

[@luraundo2293]

Alonzo Rountree Aren't you that diamond urien player who beat LTG and got dissed by him?

[@unclewreck7901]

My little brother Calviry, yes this is his big brother

[@unclewreck7901]

My brother Yes, this is his older bro

[@ryansizemore5064]

I wouldn't blame you even it was for a bad connection. Its the definition of an unfair fight.

[@latinodro9638]

this is confusing ????

[@gustavodfs3]

idk is this?

[@Justakid55]

Brian...hi

[@Poizesto]

my life is now complete

[@felixmorales6986]

As a fellow street fighter player who has played since street fighter I will say this.never and i mean NEVER was there any explanation nor mentioning of frame data.you just recognized attack patterns of the said character that player is using.now I'm not going to lie after even this explanation I'm still a bit lost.is this what street fighter has become.math?

[@Brian_F]

Under the hood this data has always been there. Once you "get it" this frame data just helps you understand things faster. Not required at all but it does help you immediately know how to punish moves

[@tdbreiker1152]

I need a explanation in spanish 😢😢😢

[@lostoni8433]

I would like to do it for you but is pretty long as you can see with the length of the video

[@tdbreiker1152]

I c 😢

do these even work in online matches? all these frame calculations mean nothing if there is a slight lag.

[@Brian_F]

I always use frame kills in online matches. In fact, frame kills are even more accurate online than eyeballing because you dont have to rely on your eyes to judge things. Make sure your setup is actually frame tight in training mode, practice it, then take it online

@@Brian_F alright, your fast reply convinced me, I will practice some :D

[@medievil2]

Too much work, plus I was never good at math, very informative video though.

[@Sladeofdark]

I wish i could play SFV, but I can't stand the pay-to-play format of the latest releases.

[@Lukexxxxxx]

please remove the repeating background sound. it's annoying

[@michaelkeelingmodalsurrealist]

Speak up. I can barely hear you.

[@GojiraLink]

You should try to remake this video and not have the personality of a shoebox. pumpumcityISDD top kek sorry, love ya B

[@BlackMagicKush]

What the fuck dude I was just watching your most recent video on Seth and I searched "how frames work street fighter" and this is the first video that comes up. Good shit lmao