Understanding subwoofer phase

[@KingOath]

Q: Where should you set your phase? A: To where it sounds best Q: Where should you set your cutoff? A: To where it sounds best Q: Whats the best position for my sub? A: Where it sounds best Q: Should I buy a ported or sealed sub? A: Buy the one that sounds best Q: What frequency should I high pass my main speakers? A: The one that sounds best Q: Should I plug my ports when adding a sub? A: If it sounds best Q: How should I position my main speakers? A: Put them where they sound best Q: How do I know if my system is setup properly? A: It will sound good Q: When should I consider upgrading? A: When it stops sounding good Peace out folks ✌🏻

[@vincet9210]

Lmfao. Facts

[@Timtowtdi-oop]

The hero of the Internet! I know they say that there is no stupid question, but if you can answer it yourself, does it need to be asked?

[@mydearriley]

Yes, but some people aren't sure what "sounds best" and given all of the possible permutations of audio setup, appreciate hanging a generally agreed upon approximations to help them get close to the sweet spot

[@keithbertschin1213]

Paul’s a legend but it’s good to hear others impart their expertise too

[@ianpeck2719]

I think this guy is Paul, kind of like back to the future. Paul’s playing with his Time machine again.☺️

[@keithbertschin1213]

Ian Peck does he have a bunch of weed in the freezer, that’s the Paul test 😂

[@ApEsXiT]

Keep up the great content Chris! Lovin it.

[@johnnorris9066]

Hi Chris I’ve really enjoyed you videos they’re always packed with information and you put your message across very clearly. Great work I’m looking forward to your next contribution 👍

[@raphaelmeillat8527]

Thank you Chris for joining the PS Audio KZbin video family! Very much enjoying the way you go about sharing your wisdom! Would love to get a "cross-over walk-through" from you. I'm sure it would be super insightful!

[@Maschinenzimmer777]

Them curtains on 4K quality are both tripping me out and killing my eyes lol

[@zoltangz]

They are venitian blinds .. not curtains! LOL

[@Maschinenzimmer777]

@@zoltangz Then the blinds blinded me...

[@bryanjones9952]

Thanks for explaining why the sub would sound louder due to the sum of the frequency response. Could not find an article or forum that explained why, just stated to choose the one that was the best/louder.

[@Another_Audiophile]

You are becoming a natural mate! Keep it up and your videos rock

[@Crokto]

chris youre killing it, somehow you really fit into the tone of the channel

[@dnlpnd]

Lovin the speaker-related videos Mr. Brunhaver! Looking for the nugget of knowledge that might make my SPL car louder. :)

[@davemonell9308]

Great video hope you are at Axpona next year. Best Regards

[@sean_heisler]

Great information again. Great job, Chris!

[@moricemeandros3049]

Hi Chris, way more relaxed, cool and eye-contact to us than the previous session!. Great presentation and solid content!

[@engjds]

Chris, I have been attempting to create a minimum phase system using REW, miniDSP HD and rephase, whilst I managed on the main speakers (within 45deg), subwoofer phase has been causing me problems, then I read FIR isn't capable in achieving subwoofer phase correction, is this true and why not in simplistic terms as possible!, thanks.

[@edgar9651]

Thanks! A couple of links in the description to the described microphones and software would be very helpful.

[@michaelangeloh.5383]

It's great that you're doubling up on the responses to people's questions. Paul is great to listen to, but we can't let the man do everything. XD Maybe he should do the more "mythical" questions, as opposed to the more straight-up technical or scientific questions. - Just an idea...

[@nb41987]

Thanks for this great explanation! Could you teach us how to set the sub cutoff frequency accurately (guess it depends on the system also), but generally speaking?

[@KingOath]

Two ways, listen with your ears and set it where it sounds best, or measure the response with a test mic and pink noise generator, and adjust until it reads a flat response

[@KingOath]

At the listening position, in conjunction with the main speakers is what I meant, sorry

[@KingOath]

Just be aware that if you’re doing measurements in a normal living room without acoustic treatment, the results will be horrifying, but it’s fun/interesting and you’l learn a lot. Often you’l never even get close to flat no matter what you do so take the measurements with a grain of salt and tweak by ear afterwards 😊

[@engjds]

Find out what the lower frequency cutoff is on your main speakers and ideally what order (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th?) then use the same on your sub, you ideally need the same order on both to blend them in, BUT room modes will invariably mess up that theory and you might find you have a peak at say 50Hz meaning it might sund better with a lower roll off. Get a signal generator on your input and listen for peaks and dips at your listening position.

[@dougbrook6223]

I need an answer to a question. Hopefully I'll get one. I have an infinite baffle setup on a boat. It uses the engine room as "the box" which is fairly well sealed. If I added a subwoofer in the engine room would it suffer from sound cancelation? Effectively I would be putting a subwoofer in a sealed, or ported box inside of a much bigger subwoofer box. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[@NickP333]

Thanks, Chris! Another great and informative vid.

[@TylerStout]

Would be useful if you had the software, mics and reading material in the description of the video.

[@stseely1]

Chris you use the term phase. On my SVS SB3000 it has a polarity setting and a phase setting. I can easily see the correct setting for the polarity between the sub and my Buchardt S400 speakers using my omnimic but not sure where to set the phase. I can see the phase setting making a difference in the curve but don't know what is correct.

[@KingOath]

There is no correct setting, you set it how you think sounds best, either by listening or measuring.

[@KingOath]

If by correct you mean honest to the recording, just set it to the flattest frequency response curve you can achieve, using pink noise. Just be aware that if you move the sub to try a new location you’l need to start over with the adjustments

[@nononsenseBennett]

I figure an out of phase sub might counteract standing waves leading to a smoother bass note in smaller spaces? Also, out of phase is a type of 'noise cancelling' system

[@engjds]

If the dip is very large it could be sucking your sub efficiency and producing large excursions elsewhere, so corrected in phase is always better.

[@prometheusjae6532]

If i run two subs together bridged together are they out of phase ?

[@royrice8597]

You can hear out of phase vs in phase. Your volume and bass will be good in phase and flat out of phase. Positive (red) out of amp to positive on back of speakers. Same with negative. (black). Subwoofer same rules. This has always been the rule that works for me. 👍👍👍

[@rostislavtelinger3133]

Incorrect wiring is changing polarity, that's something else that phase. Phase is time function.

[@johannjohann6523]

I always thought you always wanted the correct polarity and everything "In-Phase". Now I'm kinda confused. Unless you have an Isobaric Subwoofer.

[@keeferdog5617]

How are those daily vid drops coming Chris? What’s that you say?…oh- one n done eh

[@ForTN0X]

If I have set the Crossover so my main speakers dont play the same low frequencys as my sub and I only have one sub that plays those low frequencys, do I even have to care about phase? Note: My sub is behind me.

[@birgerolofsson2347]

I use the second CD in Nordost's "System Solution Set-Up & Tuning Discs" and listen to the "bass-sounds" on that CD to hear when I have the best bass. It was that double CD that "told me" that I must run my sub with the phase 180° or else it became bad.

[@jamesplotkin4674]

So sad when a sub becomes bad. They need encouragement with proper guidance and discipline to become good subs and contribute to the sub-society.

[@birgerolofsson2347]

@@jamesplotkin4674 *LOL* Well, to bee accurate: "or else it didn't sound as it was supposed to doo."

[@carlitomelon4610]

This is a gold mine! Would you mind posting links to the reading material mics and programs you mentioned please Chris? I run two rooms with 2.2 systems using REL powered subs. It seems I should experiment with measurement.... Thank you!

[@tadeusz1]

Some old REL subs have a phase swtch, so have a go at changing one only and see what happens.

[@djchamath]

can someone answer my question, pioneer amp and player both dosent have phase controls, pioneer sph10bt and pioneer gm701 amp, im going to connect two infinity 8 inch subs, will be able to do this properly without having phase controls?

[@bobnot24]

I DSP the heck out of it. I run a MiniDSP 2x4 HD for the subs, two instances of HQPlayer for phase linearization (16k taps each) of both mains and subs, and MiniDSP SHD for PEQ and Dirac Live. A single sub process with a measurement mike and REW: Simulate for the best place for sub, pick a crossover, flatten sub gain with HD, flatten both gains (

[@bobnot24]

Sound goes Roon->SHD (Roon endpoint)-> 2xHQPlayer (optical)->couple of NAA devices (wireless) -> DAC for main speakers, HD for Sub. Sub setup is totally separated from the main speakers. Picked for best position.

[@engjds]

I do not care if you have A MILLION taps, I doubt you have corrected sub phase within 90deg. From my experience, a little DSP is better than lots, 5 low Q (0.7 upto 1.4) for Eq WILL sound better than a response within 2dB thats had the DSP kicked into it. FIR's simply cannot change phase significantly at lower sub frequencies, there are papers on this, those that say they can do not understand impulse responses and their limitations. Your program might tell you its low phase-BUT its not! large delays cause measurement inaccuracies.

[@gharakusuma3304]

good evening from Indonesia, I have an active subwoofer speaker (crimson 1233) with a phase button. Should this button phase be pressed or not? Thank You.

[@Freedom89984]

Use your ears. But you can use your hands also. If your woofer of your main speakers comes forwards the sub’s woofer has to bounce forwards too at exactly the same time. But you can hear it also. Crank up the volume of your sub a bit and listen if the bass increases or decreases.

[@ptipete]

With a two subwoofers system, do both subs need to have the phase set to normal, or could one be set to reverse? An audio signal is alternating current so I'm wondering if a 2 sub system can cover the entire sine wave of a signal and get a bigger punch!

[@engjds]

There are no rules once placed in a room, the room modes mess everything up chaotically to someone without a measuring Microphone anyway, so just listening and do incremental changes-one at a time, change two variables and you will be running around like an headless chicken! As for the sine wave comment, it doesnt really make sense-your fail to grasp what a sine wave is. All sounds have many sinewaves at many different lengths, subwoofers play sounds from say 10Hz(34M) to say 100Hz(3.4M).

[@TheFendertak]

HI I'm hoping you can help me understand my Behringer subs a bit more in dept knowledge to utilise my pa system to its full potential, the subs I bought are the Behringer B1500XP's and my tops are the new 9 series Rcf935a's which are an amazing speaker, I did a little research and ok I could have splashed out and bought the RCF subs but they are a crazy price for the amount of times I would actually use them, but the the B1500Xp did their first gig and I was pleased very pleased with their performance, what a thump from a 15' now to say I Aux fed my Subs and main out L and R from my mackie 16fx V3 desk for my RCF 's set to Boost and level to 3 o clock , now my question is if I were to link my RCF' s from my Subs, how would I go about this understanding the correct settings on the subs and the RCF tops on where to set these, be it at linear boost or stage, and the reverse phase switch on the subs I have no clue what this does, using the set up I now use by Aux fed controlled subs j don't have to worry about my RCF tops performance, but I'd say linking from the subs would be a different story, I Do not want to lose any of the RCF's magic and quality of performance by linking, unless it's done correctly, that's where you come in to help and in advance I thank you, I have been told it s advised to buy same brand but that's easy say when it's more money, but it's the name your really paying for, the badge behringer B1500xp really kicks ass, but will I link my RCF's or subs remain Aux fed and RCF's main L&R out from the desk 🤔..

[@Jontsu86]

Good job Chris!

[@jlane7731]

I have 2 subs coming off my receiver.But just 1 signal..Should i have the phase on 1 sub different then the other?..like 1 on 0 phase and the other on 180 phase wise?..thx joe

[@engjds]

One subwoofer and you are supposed to feed into it Left and Right channels in phase (same polarity), they add together in the sub.

[@45llamas]

if i buy 2 of the exact same subwoofers that run at its default settings why would i have to set up phase? they both gonna move the cones exactly the same right?

[@engjds]

Nope, room response will mess that up, you can just dump the manufacturers speaker response when you place it in room, everything changes, for instance my speakers response is 3dB across the range, but placed in room uncorrected and there is 15dB swing! 2 subs will not sound the same even if you think they are symetrically placed in a rectangular room, plaster, brick etc cause massive variations.

[@jeffblanchard2027]

thank you for the information, that was great video!

[@GoodVibesOnly1914]

My technique was to walk across the room 400 times trying random combos between my two subs. Landed on each one being almost in opposite phase, 20 and 160 🤷 I did not like where it was loudest, made it boomy and muddy. I went to where they were most quiet, then adjusted gain and low pass from there, then slope. Got me clean bass that hits hard instead of loud bass

[@davidp5841]

Is the phase important if you are only using 1 sub I have tried it different ways and it seems to sound the same no matter what I do

[@engjds]

Thats not surprising, our ears can barely percieve 10% distortion at sub 100Hz! so do not stress.

[@hiresaudiocosta873]

Subwoofer should always be in phase with the mains at the listening position. And it doesn't mean just 180 degrees in or out. There is an infinite number of settings between in and out of phase. With two subwoofers, both need to be in phase at the listening position which might be a different position on each phase adjustment dial depending on the location in the room and distance to the listening position.

[@brycecannon7986]

Thank You {fellow audiophile} you are exactly right..........Listening Position is what it is all about in reference to phase.

[@BasicBOBP84]

Hi sir, i had a 2 200 watts 8 0hms speakers if i connect it into series it will be 200 watts 16ohms? And if connect it into parallel it will be 400watts 4 ohms?

[@mcpeko]

Great. I actually understand this now.

[@giovanni5093]

Salve ho un subwoofer attivo nella mia auto per avere un basso lungo con coda a che regolaggio devo mettere impostazione pare da 50hz e arriva a 150hz

[@garygray3834]

Thank you very much love you guys great information

[@gormyoder4611]

Jim Smith had a great series of articles on subwoofer setup/optimization (and getting good sound) in your own Copper Magazine: Look at 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. Copper 12 The ACK Attack and Un-common Knowledge Copper 14 Subwoofery: Trick or Treat? Copper 15 Subwoofery: Trick or Treat? - part 2 Copper 16 Wait A Minute! Copper 17 Subwoofery: Smooth Operator? Copper 18 Subwoofery: Location, Location, Location Copper 19 Subwoofery: The Basics Copper 20 Subwoofery: The Finale Copper 22 DPT: Three Critical Steps To Maximize Musical Engagement Copper 23 ACK Attack is BACK!! Copper 24 Science vs. Soul Copper 26 Something to Talk About Copper 28 The Answer Man Copper 29 The Answer Man Part 2 Copper 31 More Q & A on Getting Better Sound Copper 32 Audiophile Therapy Copper 34 A Dedicated Listening Room Copper 35 Most Important Component? Copper 36 EQ, DSP, & You: A Cautionary Tale Regards, Gorm

[@moricemeandros3049]

Do we need to time-align subwoofers with woofers/mains in case listening distance is different? I know PA active crossovers can add delay for this specific reason.

[@tonytramonti5828]

I’m polish and I design speakers , I actually designed the Kurvatech 9500 and Biliach 234 sub goofer, they are best in world , like betman.

[@AudioElectronicsChicago]

Thanks Chris

[@QoraxAudio]

Aww poor Chris... Has Paul forced you to work on Sundays? 😥

[@skipgordon5382]

Thanks - good information

[@trutmaasfull]

Well, my room is just awful, it’s 9x9foot and here is absolutely no bas if not I’ve set my subwoofers 160 degrees out of phase...

[@johnsweda2999]

Not sure I agree that you want to hear the low frequency with plenty of energy this can excite the room and give you peaks and troughs what are not desirable, out of phase always works best but placement is critical it is softer roloff, you can reverse the subwoofers and have them in phase pointing to the wall away from the speaker at 0.9 metres from the front baffle of the main speake andr to the wall

[@engjds]

Chris is a loudspeaker designer), and nothing I have heard from him is false, out of phase is not ideal, simply because efficiency lowers and more importantly excursion will be horrendous when you counteract for large dips at those out of phase dips. Excursion is the number one enemy for loud low frequency extension.

[@jimfarrell4635]

Hi Chris, You are definitely getting the hang of this video thing now. You seem much more relaxed. Thanks for this very informative piece but I have a question regarding multi sub optimizer. My understanding is that it is only suitable for use with subs fed by an identical, summed, mono signal. I have twin BK subs each connected individually from the left and right speaker outputs of my stereo amp to the high level sub inputs. Any tips on good software to use in this setup ? And I throw the question open to anyone who has sage advice to give. Cheers Jim Ps. I posted this on the PS Audio video comment section but noone seems to hang out there. Damn I felt so alone.

[@thanossapiens]

keep it up, man

[@gerritgovaerts8443]

How you gonna do speaker measurement in a room under 300 Hz ? Close micing ?

[@cbrunhaver]

Well, in this case, you're interested in the speaker + room response, not the quasi-anechoic response of the speaker alone. As such, you ll want to measure at the listening position(s).

[@hymugglee6236]

I use a 40hz test tone on KZbin and match the sub to my mains

[@j.t.cooper2963]

My system sounds best with my subs in phase with my main speakers. Your results my vary.

[@michaelharness3258]

Just hurts my brain.

[@boriss.861]

Careful Chris you don't show some Intellectual Property.... Something that should remain behind the walls of PS Audio!

[@19janiboy96]

Doing that, would go against the way PS Audio is marketing itself. Also he encourages the viewer to do some research by themselves, which is great in my opinion. All things he mentioned arent really hard to find if one knows wherr to look.

[@ecpruthless]

REW Room EQ Wizard ftw

[@vilikarac6776]

Sorry but for us neee audio home theatre guys you failed to simply the explanation.

[@MikeleKonstantyFiedorowiczIV]

you got preety beefy bass voice, recording voice quality can be better. Its nice voice as a man but not so good to introduction

[@volpedo2000]

And the curse of poorly recorded PS Audio continues. 😊 Great content as always Chris!

[@ronbradshaw7404]

What do you mean???!.

[@doowopper1951]

PS Audio always has very well recorded videos, both in sound and picture.

[@volpedo2000]

Neil Russell allow me to disagree. A lot of Paul’s video in the past, around two years ago, had really bad mic issues or too much room noise.

[@doowopper1951]

Will Giani Room noises are not recording issues, just venue issues. Many an acclaimed recording willl have issues with room noises. And, I have only once heard mic issues, even that far back. You sound like a Paul brasher.

[@JestersGeneration]

pauls great but this dude seems pretty rad!

[@user-gj4ei6dc5q]

All I can say is.... Umm

[@tweakgames]

Ummm. Ummmmmmmm. Ummmmm.

[@jarodreddig63]

😴😴😴

[@usandthemx]

Plain simple logic revisited. I have 5' towers 10" 'sub' up top, 12" 'sub' on the bottom. Of course ALL speakers are in phase. IF I ever completely lose my mind I'll crawl inside the things and change the polarity of one or both 'subs' ! MAYBE just on the left or the right - LMAO!!!!!! Doesn't make sense does it? Neither does it make sense with 2 ways + individual subs!!!!!!!!!

[@KingOath]

They are all in phase acoustically, Yes. But I will garauntee you they are not in phase electrically. This is the entire point of adjustable phase controls, to modify the electrical phase in order to match the acoustic phase of the other speakers. If you look at something called a phase response graph of a speaker driver, you will see that the acoustic phase of the sound from the driver does not match the electrical phase of the input signal for the drivers entire response range. A 12” woofer may be at 0 degrees of acoustic phase at 300hz, but -180 degrees at 100hz. This is not a problem until you combine this driver with another driver of different characteristics and thus a different phase response curve playing in a similar area of frequency. In the case where this has a negative effect, the electrical phase of one or both of the drivers is modified to align the acoustic phase and provide the desired output response. 👍🏻

[@guyanderson4570]

Great answer. The problem is you say "UM" every few words over and over. This takes away greatly from your answer. Then your answer doesn't sound so great anymore.

[@ericmc6482]

@Fat Rat the message is clearer without the filler umms and ahrrs which get really boring really quick. If needs be then write a script beforehand and use it and avoid the ad lib sessions. A good engineer needs to be a good communicator too.

[@QoraxAudio]

Still not enough ums for me to notice.

[@NickP333]

Fat Rat Agreed, Rat. I didn’t even notice.

[@mattuw82]

I didn't find that to be the case at all. I like the fact that he's able to just speak off the cuff in depth about these highly complex topics.

[@paolocanali3361]

Clearly, Chris is still not used to public speaking. As we speak to another person, we often unconsciously use the UM sound or other verbal cues to signal that we have not finished, to avoid being interrupted when we need a little pause to organize the next sentence. This is unwanted on public speaking. Being concious of this, a little practice should solve the issue.