Understanding the Central Problems of Balochistan - Rafiullah Kakar -

Rafiullah Kakar is a Public policy and development specialist from Balochistan, he comes on The Pakistan Experience to discuss the Central Problems of Balochistan, on this episode we talk about Pushtoons in Balochistan, the Annexation of Kalat, the Sardari System, Colonialism, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Constitution, General Pervez Musharraf, Murder of Akbar Bugti, Baloch Insurgency, Sardar Akhtar Mengal, Urbanization, CPEC and more.
The Pakistan Experience is an independently produced podcast looking to tell stories about Pakistan through conversations.
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The podcast is hosted by comedian and writer, Shehzad Ghias Shaikh. Shehzad is a Fulbright scholar with a Masters in Theatre from Brooklyn College. He is also one of the foremost Stand-up comedians in Pakistan and frequently writes for numerous publications.
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Chapters
0:00 Introduction
2:30 Pushtoons in Balochistan
6:24 Annexation of Kalat
8:42 How Baloch Sardari system was created
18:51 Balochistan’s Central Problems
26:02 Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Balochistan and The Constitution
35:00 Representation of Balochistan
42:21 Musharaf’s murder of Akbar Bugti and changing nature of Baloch Insurgency
51:30 Sardar Akhtar Mengal’s Issues
53:00 Urbanization of Baloch Insurgency and Missing Persons
1:02:30 Relationship of Balochistan with Pakistan Proper
1:08:00 CPEC
1:17:00 Audience Questions

[@blackswan5830]

One of the finest minds of Balochistan, I am a nationalist baloch and i do not have any reservations on him representing Balochistan. I fully support him trusting and believing on his knowledge and rsearch.

[@ShivamKumar-89SK]

Today the world is developing day by day see the quality life of Balochistan people they are living very bad quality of life because of Pakistan.. love from India for Balochistan 🇮🇳

[@FarooqHaiderKhanKakar]

May this love of acceptance flourish with times.

[@JTR253]

@@ShivamKumar-89SK Shouldn't you worry about your own Bimaru states? Jharkand and Nagaland has camps for people while women get raped. Please provide justice for them.

[@proletarians8671]

He has got immense insight into the problems of Balochistan. Thanks for inviting such an intellectual to your podcast from the far-flung area of Balochistan. 🥰

[@ThePakistanExperience]

❤️

[@avijami]

It's the quality of his knowledge and the patience with which he explains. Amazing scholar and very thoughtful answers by the gentleman

[@seedhaseedhi]

beautifully explained - what political returns will be made to the kind of investment required to appease that electorate? This is what dirty politics is all about everywhere !

[@mirmehmoodhalepota]

This individual has beautifully depicted a vivid image of Balochistan, and it brings great joy to witness such intellectual insight.

[@zaroonaz]

This man is brilliant.He is authority on contemporary Balochistan

[@ThePakistanExperience]

Yes!

[@ranganabanerji180]

Surely, one of TPE's best podcast episodes. Voice of reason, spoken in a moderate way.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@ShivamKumar-89SK]

Ine today we can see the world is developing day by day but Pakistan is the reason behind the low quality of Balochistan😢... Hope one day Balochistan will free just like Bangladesh

[@avijami]

It's the quality of his knowledge and the patience with which he explains. Amazing scholar and very thoughtful answers by the gentleman

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@ahsanadeel7365]

Pakistan problems can be solved by dialogue and awareness.Really appreciating podcast.

[@shubhamSrivastava3494]

Very happy to see such sincere people's podcast in Pakistan. At least Pakistan should listen and learn from them

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@muazzamkhan9806]

Thank God . please invite more guests like him . balochistan issue must be discuss more and more

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@shatnermohanty6678]

Those who refuse to learn from History are doomed to Repeat it .

[@ThePakistanExperience]

Yes

[@jasha9sandhu]

Pakistan is basically " Punjabistan" with feudal/imperial control over Balochistan and Pakhtoonkhwa.

[@jasha9sandhu]

General Tikka Khan was " Butcher of Bengal" whom Bhutto then sent to Balochistan to attempt a brutal genocide of baloch.

[@RASHBALOCH]

So true

[@karthikprabhu4590]

@@ThePakistanExperience Shehzad bhai we challenge you to bring the Baloch activist girl Mahrang Baloch interviewed by Fiza Khan on your podcast.......

[@ali19231]

What a guy! I can only imagine how many books he has read. No wonder he's a Rhodes Scholar. Great podcast Shehzad.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@mariasabir3821]

Finally an episode on Balochistan

[@ThePakistanExperience]

❤️

[@noshadar]

Thanks for talking about Balochistan. Raffiullah is great researcher. Hope for the best❤

[@ThePakistanExperience]

❤️

[@noemoe9720]

After watching this vlog I have changed my mind about balochistan and I’m not even a Balochi. Their struggle will expand to other states and the youth will make sure they get what they deserve. We are seeing that in 1st world countries. So the people of Pakistan have a bigger enemy that’s the establishment.

[@samibabar9543]

Man this Islamabad season is in its league of its own, the issues that are discussed are so wide in horizon and deep in understanding that is truly challenging to the status quo understanding of common men. Thanku everyone who joined this for breaking majority myths !!

[@noorulbasar37]

Not only Balochistan, but all over Other provinces have to be broken down into smaller provinces. Distribution of NFC will be more appropriate and the chances are brighter for fair distribution of resources down to the people. This will change bureaucracy dynamics, standards and expertise as well. At the same time public accountability would be more transparent

[@moyzahmed4666]

I was waiting very eagerly for this Podcast.❤

[@ThePakistanExperience]

❤️

[@FaizBolani]

PM kakar and Rafiullah Kakar are at 360 degree. Great love from all Baloch side❤❤❤for both of you.

[@Biggest__murtad]

More intresting than a Netflix movie ❤

[@ThePakistanExperience]

❤️

[@faheembaloch5679]

Sir kakar I'm baloch and all baloch salute you my lord

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@tyrant_hermit]

Thoroughly enjoyed it, hope "Pakistan Proper" is soaking up all of this, especially the bois.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@sobanghani2373]

Yessssss you asked my question 😭! Honestly TPE Quetta would be amazing. You could do a podcast for the Baloch, Pashtuns and Hazaras particularly the new generation in the rights movements

[@ThePakistanExperience]

❤️

[@mohammadiqbalkhan2888]

This debate is a Breath of Fresh Air. Dr Rafiullah Kakar is pride of our nation. He is right Imperial Patronage been replaced by Army Patronage.

[@yasirali-pr4vs]

Sub se pehle to late congrats on new interior ! Now it's fun to watch! Must to have soft lighting and background for especially long conversations! 🎉

[@eleghari]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="61">1:01</a>:00 Excellent point ("Hum jo ker rahay haiN wo theek hay, wo jo ker rahay haiN wo to ghadar haiN")

[@asadbajwa8957]

Insightful, Immersive and Intuitive. More power and prowess to you folks

[@muhammadusamanghani7235]

Learned so much, Thankyou🙂 what brilliant man he is❤❤

[@ThePakistanExperience]

❤️

[@user-eo1pf1zy1w]

One of the best! Rafi kakar brilliant analysis as usual

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@hasaannoor2436]

What an insightful man, learned so much from this podcast!

[@junaidqadirb]

Thank you so much Shehzad. It's a very enlightening episode. Best information one can find on Balochistan to fully understand the Balochistan problem and it is a Balochistan 101 in my opinion. 🙏

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@DL-DOMINAR]

Shezad 👍 even prior to watching your podcast. All the best my friend. PS: Must share this with you. Years ago while working in the Middle East my driver was a Baluchi. Honest and forthright to the core. Simple and a great human. My Lahori colleagues on the contrary, I, found a shade intriguing but comic too. Loved their Punjabi dialect though.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@media-rn6zc]

Islam prohibits you to befriend kaffirz

[@MianJee]

Great effort to educate public about real Baloch issue. Well done! Few questions... 1- Why resist administrative subsivision of Balochistan, Punjab, and Sindh that will elimInate hegemony of bigger populus centers. 2- Why protect the wrong doing and corruption of Baloch Sardars in the name of tradition? Stand up for justice for all including minorities of Balochistan. 3- Why resisting population influx into Balochistan and killing migrant workers from Punjab who are powerless and came to earn only rizque-Halal? Sindh and Bhuttos caused most of your pain. Why misplaced anger on Punjabis? 4- Are Baloch any less businessmen than other Pakistanis? Why only support smuggling and not practicing open market business model.? 5- If population-based representation is innevitable for PK federation then Why not invite All Pakistanis to come to Balochistan that will increase number of seats, NFC award, and will bring new ideas, technology, and education to Balochis. 6- Why not resisting those Sardars who are expolitive of local scene but present themselves as saviors of Baloch interest in Islamabad. Same $ardars are compromi$ed for personal interest and then badname Punjab through misinformation. 7- Why not demanding stop to Afghan free trade corrider and Only do legit business with Afghanistan and Iran? 8- What stopped you from getting trained to develop your own gems, minerals and resources? Why getting armed traing from Afghans and Indian to just blow up carvans? Same TNT or C4 can bring you fortune from mineral deposites. If Pakistan really denied you the knowledge for gems and gemology then why not getting international training from abroad? Why not developing Baloch youth resources to lead an effort to develope their own province? Why only hatered and violence? Please stop dealing with corrupt establishment and political elite and instead reachout to awaam of Karachi & Lahore to welcome your welwishers and not your exploiters. Try Lahore streets and not the assembly halls. In short, open your hearts, minds, and land for other Pakistanis.

[@ummijaan1448]

What an informative podcast. Thank you both

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@jaiabusaria6759]

Very nice and informative.. We in India can relate with the issues.. May peace be with Pakistan.

[@almassabeehsaqib4959]

What a beautiful, logically clear and analytically sound interview. The best till yet on Pakistan experience. Simply wow.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@MuhammadZohaib-xf2kh]

Great work janab. Highly informative episode on such a sensitive issue.

[@singharpan9859]

India needs such deep, intellectual, non-biased fact based podcasts which are away from commercial bullsh*t and cater to only factual conversation about interesting, important topics about the country.

[@futurecorpse4935]

@@jang-e-bahadur well pakistan has to tell many lies to build its national identity thats why and also these kind of discussion are very mainstream in india and are done in Lower house and upper house of parliament

[@shivapandey8503]

​@@futurecorpse4935nailed it bro 😂

[@yourikhi]

You do realise that even this stream is censored ?ever form of media is controlled by isi…

[@ahaanmisra4892]

Thanks for helping us/me understand Balochistan from the basics!!! Suddenly the whole issue is making a lot of sense!!! Glad you decided to go this route Shehzad bhai...if nothing...we get educated!!❤

[@ThePakistanExperience]

❤️

[@fsheryar]

As usual. A masterpiece!! Soo much to learn from it

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@jamilmalik6296]

A brilliant guest. There is hope for Pakistan.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@mayafarook]

Very well conducted interview and a very intelligent guest. Thanks for brining him in the show.

[@SaeedKhan-pm7jn]

Excellent and very insightful podcast even for someone like me who is from Balochistan that pondered long on a viable solution to our problems.

[@danyaljunejo7975]

This was an eye opener, he was brilliant and laid out everything clearly, you were a great host too,Thank you for this.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@NomadsLost]

Good one! 👍 We just hope this problem gets resolved as soon as possible. Got some really good and cooperative Baloch colleagues…and this is a sad state of affairs!

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@khalilahmed6973]

He is my relative. Proud of him! ❤

[@ThePakistanExperience]

❤️

[@rizwanmallick4884]

KA : you are very rightly proud! He is an enviable person!

[@adeelakif814]

totally agree, this was very eye-opening podcast ,

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@SDineshViolin]

Excellent TPE episode! Can completely understand what are the issues! The tales of insurgency are so similar across the world!

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@mohammaddhamrah8231]

Very informative and helpful conversation. I hope sanity prevails in our power corridors.

[@rajawajahat3877]

Such a detailed analysis of balochistan was missing and im glad you call the right person to talk about it.

[@malki420]

The podcast provided a balanced analysis of the political and authoritarian atmosphere in an informative and insightful manner. It was great to hear a nuanced and factual conversation on this topic.

[@balachshahwani3577]

allaaa malkiiii

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@qazifarjadulhaq8800]

Beautiful podcast. Thank you for introducing a gem like Rafiullah Kakar to those of us who did not know of him.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@talalmuzaffar]

This is the best podcast to understand what are the problems of Balochistan and what are possible solutions !

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@LearningwithRizwan8452]

One of the very informative, and fact based Podcasts. Thank you so much dear Shehzad for producing such a content, which is very beneficial for us distinguish between the fake and real facts. How the Mr. Rafiullah Karar Sahab, decode the intractable issue of #Balochistan, it's unprecedented, he explained very simply and with valid arguments. After watching this podcast, it made me the biggest fan of Kakar Sahab. Thanks for demystifying my notions about Balochistan. Thanks.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@AsadAli-sd3tw]

Always find your podcasts insightful and much comprehensive narratives can be learned from these in contrast to mainstream media. Do you make these available on spotify also?

[@ThePakistanExperience]

Yes, usually but Spotify podcasts isn’t available in Pakistan

[@AsadAli-sd3tw]

Oh ok, hm Tou bs 😞

[@kk-nr4js]

a great academic analysis, fact based, w/solutions, need mind-set & willingness #Balochistan thank you Karkar saab, manana thanks to the host.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@huzaifahuzaifa6606]

How clear, articulate and sequenced his thoughts are? Wow.

[@ShahZebkhanYT]

Been following his columns from a long time and always wondered why isn’t he in the limelight despite such eloquence (in writing/ now in speech) and clarity of thought. Today I feel satiated after finding him here and seeing all these viewers commenting and praising him. Thank you Shehzad 🙏

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@doctor471979]

Beautifully explained in a very simple manner the complexities of Balochistan.

[@alimehdi4160]

Can't believe this is the first time I'm listening to Rafiullah. The knowledge, comprehension of the issues and pragmatic approach of this guy is simply brilliant.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@nofi8783]

Amazing analysis very informative really enjoyed the historical and cultural context and nuanced analysis

[@nofi8783]

Also the brilliant guest was a breath of fresh air after the last podcast 🤪

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@nomanmengal6531]

Totally agree, explained honestly and clearly Balochistan issue.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@AslamKumhar]

Really knowledgeable guest.. Glad to see such people being highlighted and sharing the genuine issues of balochistan

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@vicelikestinger]

What a thorough explanation of Baloch issues. Thank you for inviting such a knowledgeable guest, this entire podcast was a treat to watch.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@acepets9527]

very well explained.. would appreciated the the knowledge and analysis of Rafiullah kakar sb

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@saqib90f]

What a great guest; A man with blend of intellect, honesty, and deep research about the dynamics of Pakistan, particularly Balochistan. Listening to such guests is always a time worth it!

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@thelooser3573]

What a fluent and thoughtful spekar #Rafiullah Kakar is. completely different approach in understanding the problems. Great podcast Shahzad bhai

[@ThePakistanExperience]

❤️

[@mjiqbal810]

Thank you for an amazing podcast. The guest Mr. Rafiullah Kakar is amazing and has such a clarity of thoughts, impressive. Hope you become leader of Pakistan instead of cricketers and industrialists and wadeeras etc etc (though that is a wishfull thinking, but wishing good is never bad). May he has a long and successful life.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@khawarmehdi1118]

Thought provoking discussion with Kakar providing the historical premise and preamble to the state of affairs in Balochistan and possible exit strategies worth consideration by the overly centralized power brokers in Pakistan. Tailpiece: Right across the border on West is Iranian Balochistan and a different world there in spite of the fact that they too have serious issues of militancy and insurgency. Yet the socioeconomic optics on ground are poles apart. Why is that ? Syed Khawar Mehdi

[@saifullahmkl913]

He is a gem The way he elaborated the problems and gave way forward shows his intellectual level ❤❤❤

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@sunala1265]

*Human Rights cannot be selective.* *7k+ Baluch massacred/killed by Pakistan Army in Pakistan were also humans.* According to the Voice for Baloch Missing Persons (VBMP), there are more than 7,000 missing persons from Balochistan. However, the Commission of Inquiry on Enforced Disappearances says there are just 454 active cases from Balochistan as of October 2023 🙏💔🙏

[@shidharbhagwat5866]

But for a state culture and religious political ideology this is normal. See the 1400 years history of Islam...it never cared by people lives or any morals

[@sabrinakhan8217]

Also, the claim of PK in international platforms that 75,000 Pakistanis sanctified their lives in " war of Terror" etc are actually 75,000 Pathans who were killed by the Punjabi army bombing of KPK FATA under the pretense of finding Osama ( found in Abbottabad near army cantonment) and killing bad Taliban, etc. All these bombings were done to kick Pashtun civilians out of their areas and move to Afghanistan, Quetta or Karachi. Now Pashtun population of KPK is replaced by trained terrorists from Yemen, Punjab, India, Bangladesh, Iraq, Somalia, and Sudan. Displaced Pashtuns are having a tough time in Karachi, and Quetta. The local Sinfhis hate Pashtun immigrants and this how Army will control Karachi by igniting riots between them .

[@sunala1265]

*The One and only solution for Liberation of Balochistan is* *Non-stop Movements from All sides of Pakistan -East (Baloch),West(Gilgit Baltistan),South (Sindhi) & from North(Pashtun) at one time*

[@wkhan5]

@@sabrinakhan8217I’m Pakhtun and what you have written is absolute BS

[@fazeelsandhu730]

What a demeanour he maintained through out the podcast, hats off to him and love the way he spoke and delivered the arguments.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@ajeetrayakar7582]

Love this profram and anchor for inviting & creating insightful conversations ❤

[@ThePakistanExperience]

❤️

[@abdullahirshad7204]

What a learned guy kakar saab is with crystal clear concept of real issues and geniune solution to them

[@rajivramanjani8706]

A very enlightening conversation. Loved it. A lot of the insights apply to India as well where Uttar Pradesh takes the lions share of development funds and also holds most power in the country. This has disincentivised the southern states who have had very good development indices. There are a lot of calls to split UP into at least 3 smaller states - to balance out this imbalance. His views are very mature and balanced. Please invite him again in future if possible

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@saadmalik3135]

One of the best podcasts I have ever heard. Great job Rafiullah and Shehzad.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

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[@ubairbutt1005]

Amazing podcast, beautifully summarized the whole issue in such a short time span! What an intellect. Kudos!

[@ThePakistanExperience]

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[@AbdulBaloch-ce1vt]

An excellent discussion. Kakar sahib has an immense knowledge about Balochistan's political issues.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

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[@ishtiaqkhattak7528]

Pashtoon Gem of Balochistan.loveed this pod cast.

[@hassancheema2268]

looks to be an excellent podcast. sukoon se sunu ga, baar baar sunu ga. thank you for this.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@adorablenature589]

An educational podcast. Thank you Kakar sahb.

[@shahanmajid9092]

Being a baloch I think he advocated the issue of balochistan really well

[@saltpepper7525]

One of the best episode. Please invite Mr Kakar on regular basis so the masses in Pakistan and around the world know the actual demographic, social and political situation of Balochistan.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@rizwanmallick4884]

RafiulLah Kakar, SA : I envy you, ur knowledge and vision. You are second person (after Dr. Moeed), who has impressed countrywide. Wish & pray to see you in high position where you have the authority to make a difference. May Allah SWT give you longevity, good health & high position in life. Compliments to your parents for being blessed with such a brilliant & knowlegeable son! Suggest you should give more nterviews to educate general public!

[@ibraheemtahir1980]

I watched almost all your podcast but liked this one. Really appreciate it

[@ThePakistanExperience]

🙌

[@mohammadafzal8499]

Thank you so much Rafiullah kakar and TPE

[@ThePakistanExperience]

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[@waqarshah309]

The most educated person I have seen so far on Baluchistan issues such as a strong command of the Baluchistan political system.

[@khawarmehdi1118]

Valid point on the democratisation of insurgency. With respect to the point on national grid & Balochistan Kakar in his argument mentioned something to the effect of electricity export to India. I am at a loss here. I will appreciate if he can elaborate on the statement.

[@hamza12ism]

You need to make more vids on this as I felt this was more dense than expected. I feel like most of us lack some fundamental knowledge on this. I urge you to make separate essay like vids on Balochistan. Thanks

[@ThePakistanExperience]

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[@meerujan7661]

Mind blowing very informative broadcast..

[@ThePakistanExperience]

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[@abtechhacks4734]

I regret being late to this video. Thanks Shehzad Ghias for your courage to speak about Balochistan's core issues and inviting a very informed guest in Rafiullah Kakar sb. Please keep up the great work that you're doing and giving us an agency when all seems lost!

[@ThePakistanExperience]

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[@khaleeltetlay1270]

More power to Rafi sahib! Excellent podcast.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

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[@Khan-hy3cw]

Assalam o aliekum MA SHA ALLAH RafiULAH Kakar is extremely an intellectual person Proud on you Kakar saab

[@faryadusmani]

Very crystal and clear explanation of the whole Balochistan issue.

[@kahsankahsan]

Amazing episode. So much to learn from this episode.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

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[@Justice4All-]

Zabardast podcast. Totally loved it.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

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[@asadvlogs723]

Wow amazing such productive discussion Rafiullah kakar a very wise sound of Balochistan.

[@sharjeeljawaid]

Eye opener. Jazakallah!

[@ThePakistanExperience]

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[@samibabar9543]

Always in awe of Rafiullah Kakar, one of the best ones.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

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[@awaisabbasi5937]

An intellectual insight to the Balochistan issues, hope to go through the books recommended by Rafiullah Kalar, really appreciated

[@ThePakistanExperience]

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[@uatiger1]

His discussion of CPEC and its reasons are absolutely spot on and I have been saying this for years as well.

[@ThePakistanExperience]

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[@khandoesthings]

Changed my perspective on the issue. Gallian denay aya tha, bhai say inspire ho kay ja raha. InshAllah pura Pakistan mil kay is maslay ka hal karay ga apnay bhaion ka