Understanding the Forbidden Fruit: Why There is NO FALL of Humankind in Genesis

The entire tale in the book of Genesis of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil has been portrayed as the FALL OF Humanity from God's Grace and Favor. It is quite the opposite. In this video I examine the original texts, properly translated and understood in their historical contents. This is history not theology! Viewer beware!
James D. Tabor, The Book of Genesis: A New Translation with Notes from the Transparent English Bible
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__________________________________________
The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men gang aft agley
מהמלים בקשר את המלים ועל סמך המלים
Retired Prof. of Religious Studies/Christian Origins
The University of North Carolina at Charlotte
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[@Shugamri]

Honestly, Tabor's translation of "The Fall" as instead "The Growing Up of Adam and Eve" makes the most sense to me? The idea of Eden as childhood and innocence, and Adam and Eve growing up into moral accountability upon eating the Fruit of the Knowledge of Consequence (would that be a better translation of the Fruit's purpose? Instead of Good and Evil, it's the Knowledge of Consequence? ), and the version of them that "died" on that day was their innocence to the consequences of their actions, makes so much more sense to me

[@85sspics41]

I've thought about that parallel before

[@raxxtv1998]

I also like the idea that it’s mythologizing of the maturation of human intelligence in general, some sort of memory of how it felt to gain a higher understanding of the world. Instead of having an animal like consciousness where there is no abstraction, there is no conception of time, there’s only the present, and instinct driven behaviors. So when we evolved higher thinking, we learned of morality, good and evil. We became aware of our own deaths. This also coincides with the agricultural revolution, and thus we had to now work the ground and suffer for food.

[@doncamp1150]

I think, though there are some details that could be interpreted that way, it is way too sophisticated an interpretation of this ancient literary work. It sounds good in the 21st century, but would make no sense in the 21st century B.C. If this is truly ancient primeval literature, is there anything similar in theme in ANE literature? I know of nothing. If we postulate that it was edited and rewritten in the mid-1st century B.C. is there anything in that period of Hebrew literature or later that has the optimistic view of mankind that Tabor suggests in this piece? Is there any interpretation of this story in later Hebrew or Christian writing that reads it as optimistic? To a literary guy, those would be clues. Barring that, to read it as wholly contrary to the worldview of the time it was composed is too much of a stretch to be persuasive.

[@kshavo]

@@doncamp1150 Excellent observation.

[@iCupTV247]

It's a common theme in folklore

[@ChristianCarrizales]

Great analysis. Over the last few years, I’ve found the Hebrew Bible much easier to understand when reading these stories without a historical focus. That is - reading them like I would Aesop’s Fables - where there is a bigger message intended to be learned from the story itself rather than focusing on some theological or historical aspect.

[@jerryhogeweide5288]

I’ve always read this as a metaphor for our consciousness and our own evolution. It’s better to remain a child and in a way, you have to be come one again if you ever want to go back to that garden. I don’t see it as the fall of man, but the birth of ego and shame that we fling on others. Ego is what’s separating us and causes wars. Sounds simple, but all you have to do to find that garden and feel god’s presence is strip down naked for all the world to see and check your ego at the door. No religion necessary.

[@scienceexplains302]

I agree in part, but the Eden story portrays the shame as the natural and appropriate response to awareness. The author(s) assumed that the social relationships and customs were natural.

[@groundedinfirstprinciples383]

The garden in ancient Greek in Roman tradition is a metaphor for the mind. Ancient YHVH tradition Roots from More or less the same ancient ancient cultures. Obviously they had their own spin on it. This echoes what he is teaching, discernment knowing good and bad. Not just knowing but deep understanding.

[@groundedinfirstprinciples383]

If you really want to go down a deep rabbit hole, parallel the tree of knowledge of Good and evil with research on the acacia trees in the Bible. The ark of the covenant is made from wood from the acacia tree. Look at everything involving the acacia in the Bible. Then research acacia in shamanistic near East religion. Then look at the temple. Now that's some mind expanding knowledge.

[@jerryhogeweide5288]

@@scienceexplains302 It seems like shame is a nasty side effect of knowing the difference between good and bad. These days, Ego death is a goal in spirituality circles and once they go through that, they are able to overcome shame, rejecting religious attempts to instill it again. Their religion becomes that ‘drop in the ocean’ mentality and there’s no bad anymore. Maybe they do lead more of a life like back in that garden, forever changed like people that have NDE’s and come back assured they are loved. Our usual response to shame is to deny deny furthering this expulsion and religions just exacerbate it more. Repentance can be very liberating and is the only redeeming part of religions that can alleviate the curse of shame. That’s why I say stripping down naked is the only way back.

[@scienceexplains302]

@@jerryhogeweide5288 Shame is a useless emotion except to control people, especially women. You only have to repent if you’ve done something wrong, such as harm a conscious being unnecessarily. If Yahweh is omnipotent, he can’t be harmed, so there can’t be any logical need to repent for disobeying. I’m speaking about the context of the story. I am an atheist.

[@EinarGrondal]

Each of these recordings is a gem. Clarifying the meaning and presenting in its simplest form. Brilliant! Thank you Dr. Tabor. 🎉

[@KevinArdala01]

This was great. Hope you do an Exodus translation too one day!

[@BobSmith-lb9nc]

Israel's 40 years was not spent in the desert, but in the wilderness of Midian. As to this coming of age and having to leave the Garden, that reminds me of Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End"

[@zeckul]

I always found it curious how God seems worried that humans could become "like one of us" in this story. It sounds like he doesn't like competition. Basically, God was fine with this child-like ignorant being living forever, but if they grow out of that, as you say, then the deal is off.

[@mitchdowning8188]

We can read that a third of the angels in heaven rebelled against the Creator and had "fallen" into the same realm as mankind, where they took to wife any of the women which they chose. From the point of view of the Creator, these may have been considered bad/evil influences on mankind. There might also be some bad consequences of the mixing of the "seed" of these bad influences with the innocent and gullible mankind ( possibly Cain is an example) . In Genesis we are told that the flood is brought about because all flesh ( living creatures) have become spiritually corrupt. This could not have been part of the Creator's plan, but could easily have resulted from the actions of those with evil intent toward the Creator and His plan for His creation. Free Will is key here since there can be no differentiation between good and evil without intent and motivation being involved. Original Sin is in choosing to doubt or act contrary to the will/advice of the Creator. A good and knowing parent would never intentionally lead his/her children astray.

[@timorean320]

Way off. You have to look at "innocence" as a child. A child can run around "naked", and not be ashamed, because the knowledge of sex, and the disgusting things humans do to each other. Its funny how they sewed fig leaves to cover privates, which makes ya wonder what really happened? Something "sexual" that opened the childs eyes? Makes sense, pain during childbearing, etc.

[@keishablossum]

It says he made man in his image. He didn't need to become one of us.

[@wilhelmvonn9619]

​@@timorean320 Sex is disgusting? You may be doing it wrong.

[@Casmige]

@@mitchdowning8188 🤦‍♂️ don’t you know that the devil or Satan or whatever you wanna call the agent provocateur is on the payroll & that he only does what he’s told to do, when he’s told to do it, & exactly how he’s to do it? Or do you think that your G-D is not actually Omnipotent?.

[@readtruth6670]

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned -Romans 5:12 Man is in a fallen state, meaning he has lost much of his former situation. Pretty simple concept.

[@LordLoss]

Kierkegaard’s book “the concept of anxiety” also agrees with you

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[@laurawilson.]

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[@wilson..olivia194]

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[@helgetyren]

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[@abdulmajeed2286]

Ezra rewrote or reconstructed religious texts without divine guidance and potentially under the influence or patronage of Persian rulers - so these are all the Books of Ezra. This opens up significant questions about the authenticity and truth of those texts as a genuine reflection of the original creation story. The texts could be seen as reflecting more of the human and political realities of the time than the original divine instruction. The rewriting of religious history and laws after hundreds of years makes it difficult to verify the truthfulness of those texts. If they were not preserved in their original form, the stories could be seen as heavily influenced by cultural, political, and human factors rather than divine truth. Reconstructing religious texts after centuries, particularly without divine instruction, raises serious concerns about the legitimacy of those texts as accurate representations of the original divine message. The historical narrative that emerges from such reconstructions could contain distortions, embellishments, or omissions that serve specific agendas or reflect the scribe’s knowledge and context limitations. The Israelites were not known to be truthful - Jesus accuses them of lying and distorting the truth about God’s will and commandments.

[@ltopomcfly5583]

Ezra's changes are more subtle. The Samaritan Pentateuch reflects the Torah before Ezra.

[@tbishop4961]

Original divine instruction?🥴😂

[@scorpioe5914]

@@abdulmajeed2286 thank you for an intelligent answer, most dont go that deep. I appreciate you

[@abdulmajeed2286]

@@scorpioe5914

[@jonathanwilner6174]

"Dying you shall surely die." There was no predation in the garden. When Adam and Eve left the garden, they saw predation, and disease. It finally occurred to them that they too will one day die leaving them with the question of what to do. They finally realized that they had to avoid the extinction of humanity by finally fulfilling the commandment of being fruitful and multiplying. One can understand the consumption of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge as avoiding the fulfillment of this commandment. Embraced by the serpent, Eve engaged in autoeroticism while Adam looked on enjoying her ecstasy vicariously. The serpent was Eve's cathectic object. They, both Adam and Eve substituted autoeroticism for marital responsibility and hence had to exit the garden to realize the gravitas of their mortality. The fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, not specifically mentioned, can be that of figs. In Hebrew, the fig also represents sexual promiscuity and the fruit likewise represents both the male and female pudenda.

[@madelinekimbro2440]

I think Adam also did partake physically with the serpent.

[@vixendoe6943]

And just where does this bent translation come from?

[@BlockyBookworm]

@@vixendoe6943 Jung or someone probably psychoanalysis goons think they're allowed to make stuff up and pass it off as "symbolic truth"

[@jonathanwilner6174]

@@madelinekimbro2440 Please explain. How does he encounter the serpent? That’s an intriguing idea.

[@jonathanwilner6174]

@@vixendoe6943 Interpretatipn. Believe it or not the Hebrew bible is subject to interpretation.

[@stephen-f9h]

In Greek myth it was forbidden on pain of death to even touch the immortal fruit growing on the tree in the garden of the Hesperides, which tree was guarded by a serpent or dragon and connected to the goddess of wisdom Athena. It might be noted it is not clear if maybe both the tree of life and the tree of wisdom were in the midst of the garden. Proverbs 3:18 says Wisdom is a Tree of Life to all those who take hold of her, hence suggesting why Eve says that even touching the fruit will cause death. I would suggest that God did not want mortal man to become like God and that is why both trees were forbidden, because they would make man like God. It would be an act of hubris similar to building the tower of Babel to storm the gate of heaven. But innocent man was so easily deceived by the Serpent.

[@chrimony]

Note the Elohim in this story lied, as truthfully told by the shining one, about the fruit, and it was out of jealousy and pettiness that the poor humans were banished from the Garden and the Tree of Life.

[@chronometer9931]

​@@chrimonyThat's not true o c c u l t i s t of the new age, you just can't understand what was written so you fall for the same lie... What is the result of that lie... You elevated Satan above God and called God the liar... You love your fruit, but it's moldy and smells...

[@chrimony]

@@chronometer9931 I'm just going by the text. You're going by feelings.

[@stephen-f9h]

@@chrimony The story is multifaceted but mainly points to why the gods (the stars of heaven) are immortal and unchanging but mankind who is dust is mortal. They call it an origin myth. In this case how death and all our woe came into the world. Man in his conceit (or pride) thought he could become like the Elohim. Isaiah 14:12-15 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations? And thou saidst in thy heart: I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit in the mountain of the covenant, in the sides of the north. I will ascend above the height of the clouds, I will be like the most High. But yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, into the depth of the pit. The story is of course a projection of our own territorial and social dominance structure onto the gods (Elohim) so as to explain the universe in human terms. And, as you say, the Elohim are jealous guardians of their territorial and social dominance prerogatives.

[@chrimony]

@@stephen-f9h I would caution against reading Isiah into Genesis. They were almost assuredly written at different times. And even then, I don't see Isiah as saying the stars are the gods. The morality I take at plain value. Gods are jealous and petty. That humans write themselves as deserving victims of these petty gods is a sad reflection of our relation to authority. Ultimately, yes, it's a copium on our mortality.

[@laurasilverstone9735]

The Bible is true from Genesis through Revelation, regardless of if you believe or not

[@johntiggleman4686]

@laurasilverstone9735 Well, let me suggest an "alternative" bible study..."Mindshift" by Brandon...he has gone through the bible from Genesis to The Revelation. They are very well done. He breaks each book down into 7 (originally 10) points of discussion, including Book Overview, Authorship and Date, Literary Analysis, Historical Accuracy, Problematic Passages and Errors. He has 30 years as a Christian. He just finished The Revelation. I have gotten more from his videos than from any preacher in my 74 years of life. He does not avoid the "ugly" verses, like many pastors do: They rely on what he calls "pretty verses." Try it out.

[@ThatBoomerDude56]

Back nearly 50 years ago, a Catholic priest in a religion class at a Catholic university explained "the fall" and the story of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil as best understood as an allegory for humanity evolving to understand "good" and "bad" choices.

[@davidm1149]

At least someone had it right.

[@scottburge219]

Always interesting. And I'm enjoying my copy of The Book of Genesis: A New Translation with Notes from the Transparent English Bible.

[@beauxcarroll8348]

Adam would be the first man to be self-aware. The giving of Fire by Prometheus is the same as it speaks to the gift of thought. Both givers of knowledge are punished for the gift. I could probably find more examples but this is a universal story.

[@stevezane68]

Dr Tabor, can you please do an audio version of your Genesis translation. I have the kindle version I really enjoy it. I’m going to get the hard copy but I would love to be able to listen to it.

[@edrowley1]

Thank you Dr. Tabor. Having been a parent and watching children and now grandchildren, it is interesting to compare their development/progress to HaShem's observation of Adam & Chavah. I have been leaning to this understanding, as it seems to be what HaShem intended, but by our choices.

[@Bhagwan.Harambe]

Adam and Eve are in the garden of Eden and god says if you eat from this tree surely you are to die. Then forbids them to eat the fruit, tell somebody not to and then they must! It’s called reactance in psychology or Lenz’s law in electric. They eat the fruit and as soon as they eat the fruit they “learn they can die” and “learn they are naked” then god comes into the garden and they hide and try to cover themself with leafs. God asks “where are you”, “why are you hiding”, “how did you know you were naked”, and “who told you”. So they neither knew they were naked nor could they die. If you put this together the fruit is the ego or self conscious. The BELIEF you are separate from god is the fruit. If you read the epic of Gilgamesh the story of Adam and Eve is the opposite; the devil is the good guy in the epic of Gilgamesh trying to free the people, and god is the bad guy trying to enslave the people.

[@JohnDoe-bm8on]

So now they die, but the consolation prize is that they can now have kids.

[@sarahsmileseriously]

Dr Tabor!!

[@a_lucientes]

I can tell you some Jewish mystics interpret it in purely cognitive way. The Garden represents the primordial non-dual state which is re-attainable but only through the dissolution or _burning up_ (to pass through the rotating flaming sword that blocks the way back) of the egoic (conventional relative subject-object perception) self through intense meditative practice. The Garden is a kind of blueprint of the creative process with each character representing a different aspect of it.

[@fcastellanos57]

I do not agree with your point of view at all. Many questions come up such as, what was that death all about when they took the fruit? Why did God forbade the access to the tree of life to them? Where are these desires coming from that causes us to sin spoken in the book of James if they did not come from our ancestors, all the way to Adam and Eve? Was the serpent correct by saying that they will be like God knowing good and evil? Why was the land cursed by their disobedience?

[@nephkiller]

Yep, that started a time for us to start making judgement calls. Even that could be a good or evil thing.

[@mdlahey3874]

Splendid exposition... Thank you, Dr. T.!

[@ronskrobutan7635]

"Tibor, while I respect your perspective, I believe it's important to read all of Genesis 3, not just selected parts. You suggest that the event was merely a coming-of-age moment for humanity, but the text makes it clear that this was indeed the Fall of Man. Why else would God respond with curses and punishments if it was simply 'maturity'? The entire chapter reflects God's disappointment and outlines severe consequences (pain in childbirth, hard labor, exile from Eden, and eventual death). These are not the results of a celebration, but of disobedience and rebellion. Please read the full context of the Bible carefully before forming conclusions based on snippets or interpretations." Your hypothesis is quite misleading.

[@GENESIS-3]

Original Sin and the Fall of Man was clearly not what the author intended when he wrote Genesis 2 and 3. Notice - Your conclusion is totally based on Christian beliefs - i.e. that the NT Paul created a “need” to be able to come with a “solution”. 😮 Ask an Orthodox Jew and he will confirm it. 😊

[@ronskrobutan7635]

@@GENESIS-3 Thank you for your reply. I understand that interpretations of Genesis 3 can vary, especially between Christian and Jewish traditions. However, the text itself still presents the disobedience of Adam and Eve as a pivotal moment with real consequences. Even without reading it through the lens of later Christian theology, Genesis 3 clearly shows that God's response was not one of neutral 'coming-of-age' but one of judgment and punishment (e.g., pain, toil, and expulsion from Eden). While I respect different perspectives, the text does convey a narrative of wrongdoing and its repercussions. Whether viewed through Christian or Jewish lenses, it is still important to engage with the full passage and its meaning.

[@kshavo]

Amen!

[@abdulmajeed2286]

If taken literally, one could maintain a position on the Genesis creation story, but considering that creation extends far beyond the ancestral history of the Israelite families, it opens up a broader understanding of creation. This perspective is much more inclusive of a reality that reflects the entirety of human history rather than focusing solely on the family history of a specific group now received as a religion by Christianity.

[@MuhHuda-su2sf]

Interesting James. I have another point of view related to the story of Adam and Eve. The story of Adam and Eve is the stage of human formation according to the theory of evolution. First, Adam and Eve were created in this earth through the process of evolution. Adam and Eve's heaven/garden is located on earth. Since the beginning, God created humans to fill the earth and do great inventions and cultures on earth. When God said that He would create humans on earth, it was the process of human physical evolution. And this process lasted millions of years. When God taught Adam names, it was the process of human brain / cognitive evolution. The process of Human ability to give names to all creatures on earth based on their special characteristics. And this process lasted thousands of years. When God gave a prohibition to humans, then humans violated the prohibition, then their eyes were opened that they were naked, then they began to make clothes because of embarrassed, that was the process of human spiritual evolution. Marked by the emergence of feelings of embarrassed over nudity and the need to make clothes. And this process also lasted thousands of years. After all human evolution ended with spiritual evolution, that's when humans separated themselves from the animal group. Because since then humans have had the ability to build high and amazing cultures until today. While animals have never thought about making clothes and shoes since the beginning. The story of the Forbidden Fruit is a symbol when humans have already known the knowledge about good and bad. And began to have a sense of embarrassed so that they felt the need to make clothes. After the cognitive and spiritual evolution of humans is perfect, they have the desire to go exploring to various corners of the world. This is what is meant by getting out of their garden. And in history it is known as the Out of Africa theory. So the entire story of Adam is actually a metaphor for the process of human evolution, each stage of which lasts thousands of years, represented by various symbols found in the story of Adam and Eve. This story is a revelation from God to His prophets, according to the level of human knowledge at that time. Because human knowledge cannot yet know the more advanced theory such evolution at that time. Thank you.

[@Steve-u9k4p]

Excellent as always. Would love to see your translations of the Greek Apocrypha and the Greek New Testament. Have both your translation bks. Good stuff. Thank you.👍

[@RamadaDiver]

It's where the idea that God will not punish those who don't know better comes from

[@RamadaDiver]

I'm pretty happy with a lot of the translating and interpretation with James here . Great video

[@davidjohnmohn]

What bible translation text are you using? Is that you own and is it available somewhere?

[@scienceexplains302]

“The Book of Genesis…” by James Tabor

[@butokuuscobey26]

Rabbi Mannis Friedman has a similar view and goes even further. Most people take Eve to be the source of the fall. According to the Rabbi, Eve was actually able to discern that eating the fruit was what God wanted all along. God actually compliments Eve for “figuring it out”.

[@TupacMakaveli1996]

So there is no access to tree of life in genesis but its mentioned in it ? And then that access is mentioned in NT. Kinda explains how evolution of religion hapoened. But for others its revelation. Jesus completed the mission of moses.

[@mitchdowning8188]

The Mission of Moses in the Old Testament was to lead the Hebrew people out of bondage (slavery) in Eqypt. While on the journey to land of Canaan, the YHWH, wrote a list commandments and had them delivered to the people by Moses. The Aaronic priesthood was established with Moses's brother Aaron and the Tribe of Levi in charge of administering the commandment system ( government) in the temple (tent used in the wilderness). The establishment of Christian Churches (primarily among the Gentiles ) was undertaken by the self-proclaimed Apostle named Paul. He insisted that members of the Churches must adhere to the edicts in his letters and instructions as leader of the Churches. The plan of Jesus for His ministry was to send disciples/apostles/preachers out in pairs to heal the sick and proclaim the Gospel that the Kingdom of God ( a spiritual destination /state of mind in this realm) had arrived. Apply the test of "live and let live" . Which of these was primarily concerned with ministering to the Spiritual needs of mankind?

[@Demosophist]

You can't really understand the significance of Genesis 1 & 2 without understanding the provenance (provocation) of the archetypes contained in the myth. For that you have to go to the Thunderbolts Project. They've recently produced a movie which can be seen for free on their secondary KZbin channel: "Breaking the Science Barrier".

[@n.c.1201]

I like this idea as a concept but my questions are that man is put in Eden to work and take care of the land-- which seems like an adult task. Or, if it is for kids, that they would learn quickly what they need to do "right or wrong" in order to produce fruit of the land? So the story would take place quickly? And to add woman because man is not right to be alone? As children? First of all, the Lord God searches for a mate, which means he has no idea who man's mate should be. And finally woman is formed, she is "made of man" and marriage is discussed. They are naked. So they are still young? The end. Then chapter 3 starts as if there has been time that passed and now woman discusses about the fruit they shouldn't take-- so they are being warned against this thing. Then the shiny object says they won't die but will know good and bad just like God.... God (elders?) says they will die. Woman sees it is good for food... and for wisdom. How does she know it is good for wisdom? What IS this fruit??? And what age are they really since they are called husband and wife at the end of chapter 3. I like this idea but this needs to really be fleshed out more because there are so many more factors. How also can you say that the consequences of their actions are "natural events" that come from wisdom when the text says, "I will cause you", "I will put emnity between you", etc. The fact that the woman's curse is to desire her husband is a sure sign they really despised women and said 'suck it up'. Too many factors to leave this video so short! Great brain teaser but would love more studies on other texts around the time to compare it to. I don't have his book but wonder if these items are discussed?

[@ArekE23]

Insightful reading of Gen 1-3 considering Deut 1.39.

[@nicolesawyer-jm6ir]

Shalom, fantastic !! Thank you !!!! 🙏🏼💗💫🕊️

[@mitchdowning8188]

In the Book of Enoch we read that certain "Watcher" (fallen) angels took it upon themselves to teach certain crafts/skills to mankind. Azazel taught man to make metal weapons. Gadreel taught use of cosmetics. Samjaza taught enchantments and root cutting ( plants & herbs ?). They also taught mankind about astrology and signs /patterns of stars and planets. This is after Adam and Eve had committed the original Sin in the Garden. Does anyone see the potential that the subtle shining Serpent may have taught Adam and Eve about reproduction? Dr. Tabor. makes the connection of the eating of the fruit of the tree of good and evil with the sewing of fig leaf britches to cover the genital areas. These same garments would later be treasured relics that came into the possession of Nimrod . The chain of events can be followed from the firstborn child of Eve ( whose father may have been the Serpent ) . Cain clearly displayed the characteristics of lying and murder which Jesus associates with the Pharisees and the seeds of Satan. This may be pointing to Spiritual good and evil being transferred through reproduction. What would a world where the spiritually evil could live forever look like? Bet it would take a flood to clean some of it up.

[@pzbur]

I was looking for any comment mentioning sexual intercourse or reproduction, and I found one. How did you think of it? Did you come up with the idea yourself, or get it from somewhere else?

[@mitchdowning8188]

@@pzbur There's a lot of emphasis on genealogy throughout the scriptures. Genesis 5 states that" this is the Book of the generations of Adam." The genealogy of Jesus ( two versions) is provided in the Gospels. Who kept up with this information of "who begat whom"? It certainly was important in those times.

[@melantheoszimurri9981]

Gnostics believed it was carnal knowledge that opened man’s eyes. The same thing happened in the epic of Gilgamesh with enkidu

[@jennifferjude3156]

Thank you Professor!

[@maxnemo1643]

Take the big, wide path. Lots of company.

[@kshavo]

Well said!🤣

[@jstanc18]

You say the translation for the serpent is "the shinning one". Is this why people think it's Lucifer/Satan that is the serpent?

[@PhoenixRises-o3n]

If the tree of knowledge of good and evil was like hey growing up, like a teenager who began to know consequences sort of, was they suppose to eat of that fruit? God says to Adam "that day you do, you will surely die", was it determined? what would happened if they did not and ate of the tree of life instead? would they have been eternal innocent and not aware of consequences and right and wrong aspects of life? would they been trapped in this gan or garden, in this fenced or enclosed area? Did God know they would do it? And if so, is it considered a sin in judaism?

[@TheYeIIowDucK]

What do you think of the Schocken Bible?

[@FFotosRUs1]

I agree with the Apostle Paul

[@alirowan1999]

So clear! So liberating! So true!

[@AnonymousPrime1085]

I don't see an article in the text of Genesis 2:9 or 2:15, where you consistently use one: "the YHVH ELOHIM." Why do you employ an article?

[@dakrontu]

A child is innocent and lives in a seemingly endless present. As the child grows, it learns that there is death, and that there are good and bad things. Perhaps the 'eternal life' (from which adults are barred by their knowledge of reality) is the illusion that a child has, of the present not having an end. And if that is the case, it means there is no perpetual afterlife.

[@GENESIS-3]

12 years ago I left the NT Jesus - for the God of Israel in the Jewish Bible. It changed everything!

[@doncamp1150]

I agree. mankind was in a state of innocence but not holiness prior to eating the forbidden fruit. Eating the forbidden fruit was a choice to seek wisdom and direction in life by trial and error. But there was also the tree of life. Since both trees are symbols, the tree of life represents the offer of life. And it could have been theirs if mankind had obeyed God and chosen to apply themselves to God for wisdom and direction. Since they did not, they got what they chose, a life of trial and error and the school of hard knocks without the wisdom that they so much needed.

[@scorpioe5914]

@@doncamp1150 I wonder what would have happened if "god" said if you choose to have the forbidden knowledge all who come after you will suffer and you will be blamed for the fall of your species. But he chose to say eat of this and you will die and that didnt stop mankind from wanting to know, and you let "satan" tempt eve and he would have known we would do this so what does that imply??

[@doncamp1150]

@@scorpioe5914 You are asking more of this story than it provides or was intended to provide. It was a very old primeval story passed on orally for many millennia as a legend, just like the American Indians passed on stories of events in the past as legends. It was then edited and crafted in an allegory or highly metaphorical style (not uncommon in ancient literature) to explain how mankind came to be alienated from God. But in its crafting, it turns out to be more than we would expect. It is really a proto-gospel explaining the need for redemption and the means God chose to forgive and restore people. It prefigures perfectly the gospel as we read it in the four Gospels, and that many centuries before the time of Jesus. That is the puzzle that is worth following up by asking how could that be?

[@scorpioe5914]

@@doncamp1150 I see yr point. For telling of what would happen is amazing. But please explain the following: While no one can draw exact parallels between two religions, there are a lot of thematic elements the story of Jesus shares with various mythologies. The "son of God" trope- Horus, Hercules, Thor etc were all the sons of a major deity. Not monotheistic, but familial all the same. The healer- Asclepius, Apollo etc Resurrection and Ascension- wow, even this isn't unique to Christianity, much to my surprise. Hercules ascended to godhood in Olympus long before Jesus did, Dionysus died and was resurrected to become a minor god, Osiris etc. There are other parallels such as the wine thing with Dionysus and the symbolic eating of flesh and drinking blood. Why is Christianity the one myth that is true above all the others? It seems to me that this is because it is the latest and technological advancement has prevented the necessity of development of more deities- today you'd have to prove a claim that you're supernatural while in the past people would just go on hearsay. The metaphorical interpretations of the life of Jesus don't make his story true- they just make the message unique. I grew up Christian, so I'm partial to Christ, but what about these characters that predate Judaism. Now these stories are from different cultures and timelines that all uplift people to strive for higher consciousness and return to God. What makes our story better?

[@doncamp1150]

@@scorpioe5914 The deeper I go in understanding what the Bible says on these subjects the more differences between the Gospel and the older myths appear. Let's take the son of God trope. What we see in the Bible is that Jesus is the Son of God as the only begotten of God inn whom the Word became flesh. The idea of "family" is not really biblical. God is one who expresses himself in several ways. He is not a family. It is the Father/Word/Spirit who is eternal. God the Word took on flesh which was born of Mary through the action of God the Spirit. The Word did not BECOME God upon his ascension to heaven or upon his anointing by God the Spirit at his baptism. He is God. Jesus the begotten Son of God did not become God. He was united with the Word at conception. Let's take one more: symbolic eating of flesh and drinking blood. The roots of those rituals go back much further than the Greek myths. They go back at least to the system of sacrifices established in Leviticus about 1400 B.C. There was development in ritual over time, but the key elements were there very early. In fact, we could trace some of those elements back even further than Leviticus and not surprisingly are even found in other cultures from time immemorial. What makes the Jewish/Christian story better? *JESUS* . He is better than even the Jewish sacrifices as the book of Hebrews argues.

[@doncamp1150]

@@scorpioe5914 My reply earlier ended sounding a bit flippant. What makes the Bible's story superior is that it is far more comprehensive, cohesive, and explanatory, and that it is real. Jesus is real. Where is Osiris or Apollo. or Hercules today? Were they ever real? Where are those whose lives are changed? In the case of Jesus and the claims he made, there are two billion people today who not only are adherents but whose lives were radically changed by Jesus. And I am one. My life would have gone in a completely different direction if it was not for Jesus.

[@shitsugane]

Thank you for this

[@321ssteeeeeve]

Descent of consciousness into the Adamic being. Should have eaten from the life tree, which was not forbidden, first

[@kevinmitchell1697]

I actually think this makes a lot of sense. I've struggled to understand why they suddenly know they are naked. Eating something does not bring revelation like that. I have also not liked the idea that others bring of a sexual encounter with Lilith or Satan. Growing up and coming of age makes sense. Spiritual growth and no drinking the mothers milk is a common theme.

[@thischristian8317]

Step 1. Take a message which most scholars agree upon. Step 2. Tell people this isn't the message at all, that the message agreed upon by many scholars is in fact completely wrong. Step 3. Make sure people feel smarter for learning these "secrets" from your special "translations". Step 4. Wait for people to buy your books, watch your videos (however cheaply or carelessly made). Step 5. PROFIT! $$$$

[@kshavo]

Love it!

[@neildegrassetitan2465]

Garden in Eden story reminds me of a rite of passage

[@damieno3470]

May God save you from yourself James. 🙏

[@Jer20.9]

By the fruit you shall know them: no shame, walking with God every day in a beautiful garden, no death sin or sickness compared to misery, murder and death, and that's just growing up?

[@frederickanderson1860]

Ignorance is bliss concept, Solomon said to have same wisdom gave him no happiness

[@marshalldarcy7423]

It is important to know that God(if god there be) is not material. If one attaches one self to the material one estranges oneself from that which is not material or God, as one wishes to get closer to God. The "way" of Christianity is getting closer to God. All that which estranges one self from God is sin. The two biggest elements of attachment to the material, and an estrangement therefor from god, are Sex and Money. This is clearly the understanding of St. Paul and many others including Jesus.

[@tookie36]

The entire story is an allegory best understood in the same light of the Bhagavad Gita. All the characters, scenes, actions are manifestations and representations of the self

[@CRWenger]

If I understand Dan McClellan correctly his position is opposite to yours, that when God told Adam that hewould die that day he meant a real death on that day and not just kicked out of the garden. You both can't be right, which is it?

[@jeff4019]

I disagree. You are removing the idea that a choice was made, and instead suggesting that Adam and Eve just grew up, so to speak, as we all do making mistakes along the way. But the idea of a choice is indispensable for us as human beings, created in the image of God. The primordial act of God was a choice. It is our inheritance too, it seems to me. I think the Fall better emphasizes the choice aspect of the story.

[@bridgestew]

It's nice to come across more people who are seeing the Garden in Eden story in this light. It is a mistake to think that Adam made a poor decision as it is usually explained under the guise of a "free will choice" to be disobedient to God. Jesus said: John 8: 34-35 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, *whoever commits sin is a slave of sin* . And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. We know that Adam sinned as it is explained here: Romans 5: 12-14 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned- (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. If we let the Bible explain the Bible, then we get a better grasp of the stories within it. Adam was a slave of sin, which was revealed in the action he took. God already knew Adam was a slave of sin. Adam was originally unaware of it, but was now made aware because he was able to see it for himself. The Book of Romans has so many things within it that are parallels of concepts, or maybe Paul intended them to be direct explanations of the Garden in Eden story. For example in the passage shared above (Romans 5), Paul says that until the law (symbolized by the command not to eat from the tree), sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed without law. Therefore, God issued the command to Adam, in order for sin to be imputed. In Romans 7, Paul explains the purpose of the commandment(s): Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, *I would not have known sin except through the law* . For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” The entirety of Romans 7 describes coming to see one's own futility: man's inability to perform what is good--even though he wills to do it; man's own inability to restrain evil--even though he wills not to do it. Adam has this same condition. Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; There's so much to unpack in that story if we look to other verses in the Bible to show the patterns. The Apostle Paul said he was the pattern for those who would come to believe. He was first a Pharisee who persecuted the Jesus movement (sinner), then after the road to Damascus event, he was a changed man: the "hardest working Apostle" as he has been dubbed (saint). 1 Corinthians 15:42-44 So also is the resurrection of the dead. *The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption* . It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. This is the pattern. First sinner, then saint. The order for mankind is not saint who becomes sinner who becomes saint again.

[@myronmire4463]

Is there any out there with knowledge of the Most High You Can find it, if you seek him with your whole heart. Using the Strongest Strong’s EXHAUSTIVE Concordance published by Zondervan. I will ask one question ( why did Moses put Miriam out of the camp for 7 days) ? Look at the little words and the Root Word of the Word’s

[@Valdagast]

There are a lot of African stories about man losing his immortality after eating a fruit. And Semitic languages group within the Afro-Asiatic languages, so there's an African connection there as well. The stories may have a common origin.

[@johanaberg173]

If the fall was actually a coming of age, why did God forbid it? Didn't He mean what He said? We are not "immortal" when we are children and become "mortal" when we grow up. And what God said to Eve and Adam after they had broken His commandment sounds lika a punishment.: "because of you the earth shall be cursed" . And didn't the snake lie to them? They did become mortal and they didn't become like God and learn to separate between right and wrong. Cain murdered his brother...

[@CH2011-a]

Why did God command them not to eat of the tree then? Was it God's will that they never grew up?

[@CrisisOfFaith]

I think the point isn't that they HAD to do it, or that they HAD to grow up, but that Adam and Eve did what they did out of their own agency. I agree however that it shouldn't be looked upon as a fall/failure.

[@jameshopkins7507]

The question arises then, why did God not want Adam and Eve to reach the state of accountability and punish them when they did?

[@johnvanmanen3149]

Very nice video like all your video's are, and i agree with most of what you say. But for this video i see a deeper understanding when checked with reality... First thing i notice is that the God of Israel is not all knowing in Genesis plus he is not the only God around in the place where he resides. So my guess is that the God of Israel is the Messiah spirit, the highest representative of the 'Allknowing outside of time..GOD' within time. When a child is playing with a toy and another child takes that toy away the first child should feel bad because of that... GOD's knowledge of good and evil.. you can feel good or bad. But when a child experienced that knowledge and knows it is a bad thing to do, yet does it to another child.. then it is a sin. So to understand what a tree of knowledge of good and evil can be we need to measure it against what feels good or bad compared to how it is understood by humans. Holy books are replacement sources of knowledge of good and evil, if they do not 100% allign with the feeling then they are not of GOD! Best example is abrahm when you feel what is written about him it should feel very bad, yet he is considered one of the most holy persons that ever lived. So the book can be considered to be a tree poisoned with ink... Followers of the bible have a weird understanding of good and evil.. all of them.. so they are deceived in knowledge of good and evil..

[@Veegan4theanimals]

Dr. Tabor would you be able to make a video on mark 14 part where Jesus was with a young man etc..? There is a lot of controversy about this and would love to see your opinion or thoughts. Thank you 💚

[@PaulSmith-i3v]

Curiously the idea of the fall being a good thing (Hegel compared man's prelapsarian state to being in a zoo) is found in the late mediaeval English folksong "Adam lay ybounden".

[@vanorsdelry]

Wouldn't this teaching be affirming that maturing starts with disobedience to Yah?

[@patrickcourtney796]

I had a problem with his theology right from the start. “ the tree of good and evil “ in the original Hebrew the word evil is רע pronounced raw and mesns evil or misery destress not bad.

[@kshavo]

It just means deciding between good and evil. That's all. For man to correctly decide we need God!

[@kelseykjarsgaard5774]

Where he at

[@nowaout8014]

Mr. Tabor you are just a treasure. Reading and listening to you and Amy Jill Levine over many the many years has truly helped me understand what i always thought about reading the bible for 42 years. Thank You.

[@andreasboe4509]

Is this why Jesus says that the meek shall inherit the earth, and that we must be born again and become children again?

[@myjourneyinforex6486]

if eating the fruit was not a sin then why Jesus had to die?

[@jameshunter9632]

Coming of age is here accompanied by formation of the shadow (due to obvious disobedience and shaming). In fact, adolescent rebellion and disobedience are typical of the human coming of age transition -- why leave out that simple and essential truth when interpreting this? If you want to de-emphasize their disobedience at least make the irrefutable connection to on-going maturation; don't just omit it. And of course disobedience and rebellion have consequences, sometimes very long-term consequences, right?

[@therealpils]

So, we're outside the garden, out of reach of life, therefore in death. therefore, who/what will save us from death? This presentation does ignore the placing of a prevention of return to Eden/Life by Elohim, which, along with the 'existential suffering imposed' suggests a form of 'punishment' for 'growing up and/or disobedience'... otherwise, excellent.

[@longcastle4863]

The original sin of every religion is the denigration of the human species, of describing it as fallen and damaged beyond repair, whose only hope is for some individuals in some proposed but unproven mythical afterlife. A belief that keeps the species from working on itself, trying to do better, improving itself as a species and how it works for the betterment of the species and the planet it lives on. Recognizing, of course, that as a species and as individuals we got some problems, but recognizing also that these are things we can work on and do better about. Instead of just saying, oh well, maybe things will be better when we die.

[@johnmcgrath6192]

In Catholic highschool I decided that theAdamand Eve story was not about adviocating obedience to God. Tio me the story was so obviously an alegory of growing up (sexual maturity)., I also devide that the OT was about presenting concepts of God to be rejected. The infantilizing concept of God in Eden, The God ordering Abraham to kill his son. bout obedience? No, about disobeying a false idea of God. Moses and Joshua and the conquests. A God advocating war, to be obeyed? Nope, disobeyed. On the whole though I have to admit tthat I foundthe Bible boring compasred to the Greek and Latin lit I ws reading (in the ot=riginl, sattending a classical high school). Yet churches exidst to preachbobeience to these false cncepts of God.

[@Ammeeeeeeer]

For me, the Eden story is a good example of why rules should have enforcement. Telling humans "this is forbidden" will just mean that rule WILL be broken, unless there's enforcement of that rule like deterrence. Basically, the angels with flaming swords should have been placed before the forbidden fruit was eaten, not after 😇 Heh, I'm probably skirting on the edges of blasphemy here, nothing new there! 😁

[@mitchdowning8188]

Is it a coincidence that the edicts of the Creator of Adam and Eve are not broken until the subtle Shining Serpent comes into the Garden and speaks with Eve? Faithfulness involves choosing to believe in benevolent advice. But you are right that Sheeple can easily be led astray.

[@WildBillCox13]

--Not an expert. My background is social anthropology. 11:51 I have long considered this the remnant of the original existential choice: to become sedentary; to leave the forests, the plains, the life of hunter/gathers. That earlier human unit was simpler, innocent, even. The fruit is the loss of that innocence and the first steps toward larger social groupings- towns, cities, and nations- and more organized human endeavor, like invasion and war.

[@babmushe]

There was no serpent at that time of offering the fruit to Eve until after the punishment.

[@tadster48]

Excellent explanation! Thank you. Could you expand on the Creation Story on how did modern Christian interpretation conclude that all humanity came from the offspring of 1 male and 1 female?...which means all humanity is bread from incest. There must be some clarity there in original text.

[@hans.stein.]

Hebr. daath is not knowing or discerning. It means to take hold of, to make one's own. In connection with this tree, it meant the illegitimate appropriation of what belongs to God who is the source of our life and the creator of our physiology.

[@jessehoward1218]

WAYMINT!!!! What's with Genesis Chapter 3:22? WEREN'T ADAM AND EVE ALREADY DESTINED TO LIVE FOREVER BEFORE THEY ATE OF THE TREE?? 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

[@michaelbindner9883]

We are all Adam, feeding on the knowledge of the evil of others.

[@henniekotze9352]

Can you please comment on the Schofield (?) bible and the hole (miss concept) about the country of Israel?

[@lukewagner8871]

Hebrews has much to say about this subject. Hebrews 2:6-11 KJVS But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? [7] Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: [8] Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. [9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. [10] For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. [11] For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Man has to be made mature. Hebrews 5:12-14 KJVS For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. [13] For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. [14] But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. And of course, God is the one who has to exercise a person in order to be able to discern both good and evil. Read the 12 chapter of the book of Hebrews,

[@scienceexplains302]

*Read it from author’s perspective* The story wasn’t written to be forever understood by all, it was written to be understood at a certain time within a certain culture. There are several interpretations in the comments, but few look at it from the author’s perspective. Why do we have to work so hard for food? Why is there patriarchy? Why do we wear clothes? Why are our closest companions people rather than other animals? These are the questions the author seems to try to answer with “Because that’s the way Yahweh created things and we disobeyed.” The story is internally inconsistent. Yahweh knows how to create animals from mud and ribs but doesn’t know, at first, that Adam would want a woman, even tho Yahweh creates him with that desire. Yahweh created all the animals of the field, including the serpent, and apparently gave the serpent knowledge of Yahweh’s mind and powers of persuasion to get the humans to do the main thing Yahweh didn’t want them to do. Everything is down to Yahweh, who for unexplained reasons created a tree of life and tree of knowledge that he never wanted anyone to eat from.

[@neclark08]

I've long been disturbed by several aspects of the "Forbidden Fruit" verses in the Genesis 2 fable: Firstly, the text makes clear (Gen. 2:8--9 & --2:15---17) that while god gave it's Direct warning(s) to the man, Adam, against HIS eating "...the fruit of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil,..."-- nowhere does the text indicate that god provided the woman, Eve (created an unspecified length of time AFTER Adam) with the same 'face-to-face'/ 'god-to-Human' instruction/warning he'd delivered to Adam. Secondly (A) -- While Adam & Eve were reputedly 'created' in adult, sexually-capable Human forms; their brains/minds & 'Life Experiences would be those of Infants -- if not NEW-BORNS. Human Psychologists & (Honest) lawmakers understand that people of Narrow/Limited intellectual- & life expetience 'Resources' as "Adam" or "Eve' are Legally Ineligible to sign Binding Contracts -- or be held responsible for Crimes. Secondly (B) -- It is Inonceivable that the Unworldly, 'Child-Minds' of A & E could Comprehend the Gravity of this thing "DEATH"; god might as well have threatened: "...you Will Surely Blorthelsnorph!" Thirdly -- ANY All-Knowing god would Know it was (Intentionally ?) creating an "Attractive Nuisance Trap" which No young child (or significant number of adults) could Resist; EVERY parent who has raised a child from toddler to teen KNOWS that the Surest way to get a kid to "'Do _X_" is to Tell them that they Should "NEVER Do __X__". Like all ancient "Just-So Stories" that made (and survived) the jump from the Tale-Teller's fire-side Lore to the scribe's pen/stylus, the oral [hi]stories that would -- over centuries -- become Genesis, sought to provide Amazing/Inspiring 'Explanations' for the existence- & workings of "The World"...to conjure the properties of the Forces/Spirits/Gods that MUST have created this World -- and how/why the seasons repeat their cycles..? From WENCE comes the Life Force which animates a baby to kick & twist in its mother's womb -- and what Becomes of each Human's Life Force when they die ?

[@therealpils]

i'd choose Death any day over Blorthelsnorph! omg!

[@johncoldwell7835]

Cursed is the ground... Sounds like a fall to me.

[@tbishop4961]

Im positive "doctor dan" will not appreciate your contribution here😂

[@lechat1438]

Why were they cursed?

[@eyeinthesky7336]

Disobediance

[@manlyhallresearch9785]

YHWH/Jehovah is not mentioned in Genesis 1. YHWH/Jehovah is not the Father of Jesus.

[@theomnisthour6400]

YHVH means "I am who I will be", not necessarily God unless the spiritual power in control of the temple of the Bible's scribes among its chosen people happens to be an incarnation of the first creator before He began incarnating in the final chosen species, humanity. Elohim with a singular pronoun signifies a hive mind "one" spiritual entity - who are generally adversaries of God in that they control and manipulate lower consciousness souls with holographic imagery and mind-bending magic, stealing their God-given right to free will and self-determination. Unless you accept these two fundamental truths, the whole rest of the Torah will be a gibberish interpretation based on Satanic materialistic power cult dogma.

[@catalyst3713]

What do you think of Yeshuah of Nazareth?

[@theomnisthour6400]

@@catalyst3713 Nazareth is quite close to Sepphoris, near the ancestral capital of the Northern Kingdom, and likely to have kept the secrets of the Judahite betrayal of the Northern tribes to the Assyrians before the captivity. Sepphoris was destroyed in 4BC in the failed zealot revolt of Judas of Galilee - no doubt a key figure in the creative genesis of many competing gospels. Tiberias was built as the new Roman capital of Samaria, and figures prominently in later semi-historical fiction that kept many threads weaving themselves into the competing historical narratives of today. That's why one of the key accomplishments of the 2025 Messiah will be to enable Time Team expeditions to discover our true history, and bring the future interlopers who have been trying to bollocks up the apocalypse to justice. Good fun, I almost worry God won't have any interest in future seasons of the Star Trek reality show, if I did not know how productive the City of God will be in raising sons of God and daughters of Karma to follow in their parents' footsteps.

[@Casmige]

To him that knoweth (intimately - As in Adam knew his wife sort of “knowing”) good & do it not? to him that is evil. “Knowing” is NOT rote regurgitative Academia.

[@tcb6857]

They did the only thing God told them not to do.