Understanding The Matter with Things Dialogues: Episode 4: Chapter 4 Judgment

[@dominickmas2133]

Raised in institutions since 15 years old, approximately 8 years out of my 40 years have been within American institutions. Decided upon study of psychology along the way, as well as law, martial arts, meditation, the old ways of Native Americans, Viking culture, etc... What is presented here sheds a whole new light of how to consider what I've learned, and I simply want to express my appreciation.

[@cheri238]

American Institutions must of been difficult. Your journey into these areas you have expressed must have brought healing into your heart. Thank you for sharing your experiences.❤

[@maxtroy]

I listen to audiobooks and podcasts while working trade. 8 hours a day. This series is my favourite of the last 5 years. God bless you Ian. I know how deeply you struggle and wrestle with all of this.

[@DavidBaumSeattle]

At the risk of seeming grandiose (and sounding like a silly fan-boy), I believe your philosophy is the capstone of human thought, providing a biophysical anchor for the immanent duality that generates our experience. Your insight is at once instantly comprehensible (right-hemisphere) and a prodigious reservoir of substance for ongoing analysis (left-hemisphere). I am grateful to encounter you, at this turning point in the human story!

[@cynthiaford6976]

I have the same deep intuition, and we can comfort ourselves about being fan boys and fan girls, with the thought that pairing the deepest and most profound philosophy with the desire to wear fan t-shirts and baseball caps and fawn and wax hyperbolic (as over rock stars or perhaps Shams), makes a perfect coincidence of opposites lol.

[@mmnuances]

Hi David, I am with you and interested in connecting with all who are undergoing a inner transformative process triggered by these teachings.

[@maxtroy]

You said what I wanted to precisely, but was unable to find the words to do so. Couldn’t agree more.

[@rythmicwarrior]

I think you would appreciate the work of Bernardo Kastrup as well.

[@kiljoy3254]

Seriously, I’m not one to read philosophy classics/primary sources I.e Kant, Hegel, Hume etc my knowledge is from secondary sources... actually I extremely rarely read books at all until I was about thirty... I was too busy pondering, obsessing about, existence... so the core ‘problems’ are only too familiar to me. But I feel, perhaps preposterously, confident in contending that Iain has made the most important contribution to actual ‘love of wisdom’ (in the more ‘philosophy’ idiom, as oppose to, say, the writings of Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, for example) in modern times. It’s not suppose to be a left brained competition but I’d like to see how an ‘expert’ would contest the importance, superiority, of Kant or Heidegger compared to McGilchrist... honestly, I’m not sure they could do it.

[@burningproblem]

This series is wonderful for recapping each chapter, after I've slowly plod through them, one by one.

[@peterroselle7612]

Thanks for releasing these interviews quickly. Alex makes a an excellent conversation partner.

[@cheri238]

Again, I am reading sections slowly and not just one time and digesting these discussions with an enquiring mind. Never have I found in these two books anywhere else , but pieces along the way of questioning about what I may learn about our brains. It's fascinating to listen to both of you. I love Joseph Campbell, the late Professor at Stamford University, his books on "The Power of Myths."

[@maxsterling8203]

“…machines ,” said Ian. “Yes , lumbering robots,” Alex said. I do so appreciate each of the speakers thoughtful language and unabbreviated guidance of the conversations adjunctiveness they do so quite famously it seems.

[@dalibofurnell]

Dr Mcgilchrist, fistly, thank you. Secondly, as someone who has been grappling with Anorexia nervosa for many years now, this is the first time I've heard you speaking about it, (I don't know how I missed this session 4 , because I've been through almost the whole series and I listen to a lot of your talks and while I mention that, you were absolutely delightful with Karen and DC Schindler on the meaning code - I have been going through that and each time I come away with something else, I've probably listened about 5 or 6 times now... good on you, Sir ). Anyway, I'm grateful to have finally found this, because I heard someone mention that you might know some things about anorexia nervosa. But obviously it hasn't really come up when I tried to search. I really think you are onto something. And I have been incredibly dissapointed in so many medical professionals and or specialists, etc and this has dragged on for so Long, honestly I am surprised to still be alive, but let me be very honest- life for me is extremely difficult. I want to know what to do regarding what you are saying. Who do I ask? Can you refer me to any resources? ❤

[@ronaldoramunno2683]

Iain is a treasure

[@cheri238]

I agree ❤

[@bearheart2009]

Thank you once again for a fascinating discussion!

[@mmnuances]

As a lifetime student of Dr. McGilchrist, I find these conversations to be extremely helpful, and they lead me to ask the question: Can we awaken from our deficits if we are unable to see or feel them? What would an authentic reestablishing of psychological balance feel like if we have never felt it before? As I have watched this conversation, it has dawned upon me that Alex is looking at the same question that intrigues me, not only within my unique personal worlds, but also in the worlds of others: Is it possible that I personally, and the world zeitgeist as a whole, are trapped in the equivalent of the person with right hemisphere damage and distorted body image and altered dead, machine-like felt embodied sense? Are we exhibiting the same sort of altered judgements and denials characteristic of these injured individuals, completely unknown to our awareness and completely imprisoned in a limited view of who we are and what is the Universe? Given the bewildering total denial of their problem, is it possible that we are living in the same way despite all of our talk about the other possibilities offered by the right hemisphere? This I think has been the focus of all authentic developmental "spiritual" systems throughout the ages...

[@kiljoy3254]

They know, we know... the concept of grace and humility apply to me also... if I was suddenly granted access to this heaven that is often referred to, I’m sure I’d be overwhelmed with a sense of shame and guilt and know I was not worthy to enter, hence why the story of Christ is so powerful and enduring

[@cheri238]

The story of the Good Samaritan is the story in the Bible.❤

[@paulnoth1281]

Alex is a great choice for these discussions

[@bearheart2009]

@21:50 This point interests me because there seems to be a debate about whether people can literally change sex. I can see how the two sides of the debate could be characterised as left hemisphere thinking and right hemisphere thinking.

[@damianclifford9693]

It's the most stark example for me of a world gone too far left hemisphere, as if someone could be put in the 'wrong' body for their brain, what could be more disembodied ?!

[@cheri238]

I have had a friend in grammar school in the sixties. She thought she was a boy and bullies at school would make fun of her. She wore boys clothes and she had facial hairs on her face, like a young boy in puberty. I staunchly would take up for her for she was so smart. I even got in a fight with a boy bigger than me. I got suspended from school. Thankfully, I had parents that understood. My dear friend ended up hanging herself for being who he/ she was. Look at what is happening now with harsh laws being made in America against these precious children. It is still a reminder of how many choose death for not being able to be who they are. (I don't know why that is?) But ignorance and intolerance are the keys to hatred. I still think remember how I cared for my friend as everday this world does not listen to children. Some have an intuitive nature as the ego's of adults control drive the beauty that was there from the start. Why is that?

[@riccardomontague3832]

In a world where it is dangerous to have heroes. You are near to the top. Which may not be such a good thing. But you are spot on I believe, Th left side of our brain is totally prone to delusional thinking. We cherry pick data to support the predetermined conclusion we want to get to. I saw it all the time as a lawyer in terms of how we marshal evidence to support our own theory of a case. And when all else fails. Confuse the bejesus out of people. So that they give up in frustration, Which is what we see going on all the time. Especially with the amount of disinformation being promulgated. A lot of it state sanctioned. Just to prove their point. I would love to see and hear you have a lengthy conversation with Tara Brach and Gabor Mate here in Canada. For a lot of this dysfunction is I believe related to our refusal and inability to face reality and deal with deep seated family induced and related trauma. Thank you.

[@cheri238]

I love Dr. Gabor Mate, also. We are all walking in seas of madness, all societies are being affected for generations. Being traumatized by governments and Corporations of powers of greed. Families and children all over our world, the progress of technology undeniably has its dark and light. I ask people which novel would one choose, Orwell's "1984," or Aldoux Huxley's" Brave New World"? I go with "Brave New World."

[@Eudaimonia88]

It is correct to say that when we talk about "corpse" in the English language there isn't the slightest chance, ever, that we might refer to a living body. However, it is wildly inaccurate to claim that, in the German language, the word "Körper" signifies "the body on the dissecting table". "Körper", in German, is synonymous with "body", not with "corpse". It is used in everyday language to refer to one's own or other people's bodies, alive or dead. The term "Leib" is not used by Germans in everyday parlance: it is significant only in a theological or philosophical context.

[@MrPochybovac]

Hi all, slightly offtopic, but does Dr. McGilchrist comment on evolving human consciousness throughout history, especially in regards to left/right hemisperes? Possibly some specific periods when a particular hemispere dominated the world thinking? If so, where exactly in his talks/writings can I find it?

[@DavidBaumSeattle]

His book “The Master and His Emissary” deals with the history of Western thinking. I’m up to “Modernism.” (I’m reading TMaHE to prepare for tackling the magnum opus.)

[@cheri238]

Recently in Georgia, which was a part of Russia, archeologists found bodies of a different kind of species than the Neanderthals whose skulls were smaller than theirs. Of all places, these bones were found underneath an Orthodox Church. What I gathered from watching this documentary was that these travelers were from Africa and traveled in groups and ended up in Asia some 8 million years ago. Furthermore, their brains were smaller. The creation of the universe is mysterious forces.

[@mustangman776]

Dr McGilchrist, thank you for doing these discussions expounding your work. They’re very helpful in lieu of an audiobook for I’m active on my feet a lot of the day. With little time to readI can listen! As I listen Wendell Berry’s writing, especially his discussion of Agrarian and Industrial economies and the deleterious effects of the latter on humankind and the land we inhabit, so clearly aligns with your juxtaposition of the machine and living body, the left and the right. He says the industrial economy and ethic has become totalizing and destroying American (Western too) culture while the Agrarian economy and ethic remember its place in a larger, natural whole. There are numerous other connections to be made! I highly recommend scanning his book “The Unsettling Of America: Culture and Agriculture” or any of his collections of essays!

[@gretamordue9139]

Alex's idea of "endogenous suppression" could be a link to the psychological concepts of defence mechanisms

[@oakbellUK]

On 'myths'. Surely there are simply two meanings of the word? 1 a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining a natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events: "ancient Celtic myths" · "the heroes of Greek myth" 2 a widely held but false belief or idea: "the belief that evening primrose oil helps to cure eczema is a myth, according to dermatologists"

[@FoundingStockNZ]

Dr William Luther Pierce was a physicist and he understood the world better than most at some very deep and poignant levels...

[@idrearamacirmtamta1293]

Fascinating discussion. ♀️ clearly have more well integrated corpora calossa.☺️

[@dominickmas2133]

24:01

[@aspencrest]

If one is lost in thought or distracted with a phone call and arrives home, not remembering driving part of the trip, was it both hemispheres working in concert that made the drive successful, unconsciously, or was one of the hemispheres dominant in that process?

[@4real277]

The male female difference might be to compensate for the difference in hormones as oestrogen compels one to tend to ‘the other’ and connect, typically a right hemisphere disposition, so to balance this out female brains may be left hemisphere dominant and vice versa. Thinking of the intelligence of the body as a wonderful whole organism vs the brain as the dominant thing is also essential.

[@GrimrDirge]

To whomever posts these on Dr. McGilchrist's behalf: does the good doctor have an opinion on Erich Neumann?

[@henryprice4205]

Is it too much to suggest that if one's brain is operating in balance, one is essentially two beings? By balance, I mean lacking imbalance.

[@barbarajohnson1442]

I hope to learn about environmental influences. The woman who thought she was a bureau, maybe due to some violation, damage done in childhood, then the brain manifests it in experience

[@henryprice4205]

I shall let the matter rest.

[@abcrane]

philosophy, religion, and science can all be mechanistic or holistic, where I'm confused is this seemingly common "notion" of some sort of "mechanistic onset" with the "modern scientized era." Am I missing something? Were the medieval times all peaches and cream? Was not the Church just as mechanistic in their view (and heinous treatment) of the human experience, body, mind, soul? Were not those witchy earth mama right brainers burned at the stake? What is the difference between a Holy Inquisition and a Scientized Holocaust? Why this perception of an abrupt shift into a mechanistic world view? I feel that a mechanistic scientific world view is a transvaluation of a mechanistic religious world view (religions that shame and repress emotion and sexuality, publicly punish us, become sciences designed to genetically modify us, designer babies, fake breasts; kills us (weapons of mass destruction); and brainwash us (mass media/entertainment). If science was borne of an Epicurus or a Spinoza or a Nietzsche or a Jung or an Emerson and/or a Thorough consciousness I believe science would have already healed the earth and human societies. today's secular body fat shaming is yesterdays religious sex shaming. same pathology of mind. Gurdjieff knew that man was machine(like) longgggg before we became all so technological.

[@kiljoy3254]

Whilst I think Iain probably ascribes too much of the modern condition to what Jacob Bronowski referred to as the English Revolution (with its more homely connotation) i.e the Industrial Revolution, you’ll find similar diagnosis of predominant LH mentality in the religious wars of the Reformation... and in ancient history, in The Master and his Emissary. Bear in mind, Jesus challenged the severity with which the Law, the Sabbath, was being policed, as it were... ‘the law is for the people, not the people for the law’. I’d also add that the medieval excesses of the church were due mainly to the church being assimilated to the imperial war machine that was the Roman Empire centuries earlier.

[@branandubh]

Yes you may have a point, but might be worth catching up on the more recent research into the witch burnings. The picture looks very different.

[@kiljoy3254]

@@branandubh I think ‘mechanistic religious’ is a contradiction in terms... perhaps you agree. I think it’s important to qualify as, say, quasi religion, or idolatry, when evil powerful people takeover.

[@andres_campos]

(54:54) didn't convince me. Sounded politically correct.

[@Neilgs]

Ian I deeply admire your work beyond words can ever describe. However, I believe your are a bit off here if the majority of psychiatric syndromes you are describing with the exception of those to due to physical injury (just listened to several minutes) are attributable to actual organic structural deficits rather than an emphasis on a creative symbolic interpretative per that individual. In other words, adaptive coping mechanisms for ways and manners of those individuals dealing with the world-and-others (autonomically overwhelmed) due to early childhood trauma which then of course in turn affects both right and left hemispheric functioning. As the individual returns to a position of parasympathetic ventral vagal safety from adaptive sympathetic-adrenal fight/flight defensive behaviors or worse parasympathetic withdrawal/shutdown or dissociation then the accompanied mind-body narratives and more optimal brain functioning would shift accordingly.

[@natalita1528]

E se non è vero è ben trovato

[@kiljoy3254]

56:40 ’left hemisphere emotional in an unpleasant way’ 😂😂 goes on to describe how some women will doubtless react to what Iain previously said about gender differences. I suppose petulant little brats won’t bother to watch this but I might try it as an experiment

[@kiljoy3254]

Just to clarify... Iain doesn’t say specifically how ‘some women’ will react, I infer that... meh, just from experience

[@SamCheryl-s6q]

Clark Barbara Lopez Christopher Johnson Donna

[@JillFreeman-kb4ih]

Ian-- why do you favor males? you also seem to have a bias against so-called left brain thinking. I find this unreasonable. why favor one gender when both are needed for cooperation?

[@luke_a_johnson]

The format of the volumes is or are expressing itself in the comments.