Is Value fundamental to the cosmos? Iain McGilchrist in conversation with Zak Stein

This conversation is part of an online seminar series taking place in the Spring and Summer of 2023 bringing innovative thinkers into conversation with Iain McGilchrist to explore his philosophy as laid out in The Matter with Things.
In the week following each event, we hold free connection and inquiry sessions online to meet and reflect more deeply with others on the significance of the ideas shared in the previous week’s seminar. Incorporating embodied and relational practices, we’ll alternate between break-out room conversations and whole-group discussion. The emphasis is on authentic connections, epistemic humility, and a sense of wonder in relation to Iain and his interlocutors' work. You're warmly invited to join us!
To join the live events or learn more about this series go to our webpage here: systems-souls-society.com/iai...
*
Perspectiva is registered in England and Wales as: Perspectives on Systems, Souls and Society (1170492​​​​). Our charitable aims are: 'To advance the education of the public in general, particularly amongst thought leaders in the public realm on the subject of the relationships between complex global challenges and the inner lives of human beings, and how these relationships play out in society; and to promote research, activities and discourse for the public benefit in these subjects and to publish useful results'. Aside from modest income from books and events, all our income comes from donations from philanthropic trusts and foundations and further donations are therefore welcome.
You can follow Perspectiva on Twitter ( / perspecteeva​​​​ )
Subscribe to our newsletter via our website (systems-souls-society.com​​​​)
Please consider supporting us on Patreon ( / perspecteeva ) or making a donation via our website (systems-souls-society.com)

[@WeAreOnePiano]

Iain McGilchrist's divided paradigm is quite possibly the greatest philosophical thought in the past 500 years. Thank you PERSPECTIVA for championing his work, you are doing your part in history.

[@Lin-Tsi]

Value and beauty are relational. They are neither just in us and projected, nor just out there already and ready to be received.

[@chase1671]

One of the best McGilchrist conversations on the web! Props to Perspectiva for getting Zak and Iain together. It was a palpable delight for guests, host and audience!

[@christianekind6492]

Please do keep these discussions going - they are so fundamental to our understanding of what is going on and so very important, in particular, to our young people who feel so so lost in this world. Thank you to all of you and again, please keep talking .........

[@jeffbarney3584]

At the end of the dialogue @1:00:00 I am put in mind of Owen Barfield's notion of final participation as summing up the notion these two beautiful human beings brought as description of what Barfield would have called original participation when they describe our vocal heritage. In fact Rudolf Steiner referred to us as being musical instruments. Hopefully the intervening moment doesn't result in our self destruction and we may harmonize with the ground of being again. Thinking like these two do together does the trick for me! So grateful.

[@cheri238]

I have watched the first twice, and now this second one is twice, all day. In between, I ordered from Books a Million, Dr. McGilchrist first book , they did not have "A Matter in Things." Regrettably, I had a friend order it from Amazon (I never buy anything from Amazon). I also live at my library. This book is too important . I even got it in hardback. All my books are , mostly. It cost 170.00 dollars and I know this book will help me in areas that I gravitate to. What an illuminating discussion!!!! I am thrilled, and with my deepest appreciation and respect, I want to thank all of you for this education on various subjects that I have loved since I was a child.

[@JosephGeraghty]

Dear Ian, I am a huge fan, working my way through your wonderful huge book. It so speaks to me. Not wishing to be audacious but it the spirit of openness, I do believe that awareness is formless and you have wonderfully guided us to awareness as the light the helps us transcend the duality of the ego. You book is such a gift. 💕🙏

[@vincentstanzione8112]

I left the culture I came from to live with Maya out in their mountains over thirty years and more to go. I moved out into the forest to live with the Maya in their language that speaks of their World; the Sky-Earth...the Sacred sense of life and sacred sense of humans living in the world through the Maya interpretation of the sacred word if their sacred book that is now the word of the Bible, the sacred is the light that must be brought forth by struggling of humans on behalf of Jesus and Jesus for the Maya....We call this transculturation...to adapt and adapt from the outside in oder to empower Maya religious communities on the inside of the Maya spirit and soul...This immense power of purpose and meaning in Maya lives through the Sacred and Divine gratefulness of life. Beauty is the center of the Maya life...the beauty of the Maize field as the embodiment of the beauty of the Ancestral Pat....humans performing ceremony to create a balanced and harmonious life...I feel grateful listening to this story being told here, the poor narrator lacks that feeling of intimacy and Eros...one can feel his alienation from the Soul of the World...Iain and Zak feel so called by the Divine towards their being called to the Erotic Desire to bring forth essential knowledge and wisdom of the world...We need to Die, We are best to teach ourselves about Maya Cyclical Time that repeats itself....Time Ends to then be begun again through ceremony...We must learn from Indigenous People and this Conversation makes this so obvious....We never return to the Past to Remember the Indigenous People who Our Culture continuous to Errase...Ket Oir Wirkd Die se the Earth can be tilled again to sin New Seeds of Education to the Next Generation....Transcend only by first Enveloping the Past to the Transcend and Integrate the Past in tge Oresent to Create Values of the Future....to Love the good the true and beautiful to bring forth the Gratitide found in the Sacred...the Divine...Value the Sacred Language of Song, Dance, and Fire to organize life through the Naming the Names of times and space through Mesoamerican Day keeping that forms and shape beauty through the Prayers and Encantation of Language...We need to Integrate Language through Song to find new old ways relating intimately with the Divinity if Infinity....

[@world_musician]

As someone interested in these topics as well as a performing sitar player whos been studying hindustani music for two decades now, i'd love to explore the overlap between the two. I was pleasantly surprised to hear them indian classical music, not many really know about it in a deep sense and how its philosophy touches these deep philosophical subjects. For example, its said that the ragas exist already out in the ether, and the musicin merely translates, channels, or amplifies it. Similar to the idea that value is present outside humans. fascinating discussion! Huge fan of McGilchrist, heard of him through Terence Mckenna

[@warrenlockie3154]

Hi. I play sitar as well. I find it channels something Right brain for sure. Mood, colour, reflection of time of the day or night etc. It often plays itself in the sense of Improvisation and doing on my part.

[@world_musician]

@@warrenlockie3154 "plays itself" indeed, quite literally with the sympathetic strings!

[@jeffbarney3584]

I love this notion of intensification of polarization. This intensification is generated by the center that holds them in simultaneity.

[@jeffbarney3584]

Waldorf education cultivates valueception and actively works to not inhibit it.

[@davidpeet3863]

What a fabulous conversation. Just so important in so many ways. To be humble before creation, paradoxically, means we have no idols. To have no idols before creation is, to me, the way to freedom. True humility gives permission to that which is created, to creation, permission to reveal itself as a wisdom way beyond our present understanding. Humility in us allows that wisdom, beauty and truth in creation to open up before us. We then, I think, join with it, naturally, and it is ecstatic. Paradoxically therefore this humility, the hardest thing any human can achieve, facilitates the realisation of human potential at a mind-blowing level. We realise we are also of creation and have within us all that creation is. For me, Love. Humility is not being less, humility is being willing to allow that which is to lead the.way. It takes courage. It speaks to another paradox - in being nothing we are everything

[@kbeetles]

What a potent conversation - and filled with awe, beauty and sadness.... in accordance with human existence!

[@r.michaelfisher7930]

Good to hear this positive attribution to Value (yes, over the emphasis on values). Thanks. My own work has tracked much of this (right hemispheric interest) to notions (metaphysics) of Quality. I wonder if that is being teased out. I am an artist-eco-philosopher-educator and Quality has seemed so sensible, just because a living organism is designed to seek out Quality (e.g., food quality) etc. Maybe it doesn't matter what term we use Value or Quality. I cut my teeth on Robert M. Pirsig's books on metaphysics of Quality back in the 70s-80s. I think ultimately, whether talking about Value or Quality as is 'up' here for interest (to the right hemispheric interest)--we have to talk about "aesthetics" or truly to ignore this, we're missing so much and I'm concerned logical-rational (left hemispheric interest) will only go on and on and on... but aesthetics is arational modality (i.e., aesthetics is not only about "beauty")--and, that is a whole other topic.

[@mirapeerance]

Yes, But.......,Enough for whom and enough for what purpose? It is so hard to conceive that we may be in 'end times' for life on earth unless we can share essential understandings and move them on to global actions. If we were as teenagers to be faced with the probable murder of our parents, would we not 'as the kids' drop our differences to find a way of saving the lives of our mother and father? That is where I believe we are now.

[@theobservereffectexplained1102]

Second time I am listening to this presentation and must give respect and appreciation for the introduction it was very informative and valuable.

[@JonathanDavisKookaburra]

To the PhD student from New Zealand's questions, imagine a map of existence depicted as a colour wheel with darker shades at the outside and white at the centre. before proceeding, remember as soon as we try to talk about the tao, it is no longer the eternal tao. this map is a finger pointing to the moon, not the moon itself. imagine travelling closer and closer to the centre. as you get closer there is less differention between the colours and more and more of the pure white light of undivided consciousness. once there is mostly white with faint only tints of different colours, perception of reality becomes a lot more paradoxical. there is less ditinction between subjective and objective and they start to become like a mobius strip. once you try to label something as subjective before you know it, it has flipped and become objective and vice versa. when we merge with the pure white light at the very centre, we become the entirety of the whole colour wheel, because white contains all colours. this is what william james refers to as the 'the totality of all' at the heart of the classic mystical experience. when emersen talks about becoming the transparent eyeball, he is very close to the centre, but not fully in the centre, because he is still a separate eyeball percieving the vast interconnectedness of the cosmos, so there is still some separation. this is the same as the concept of the atman and the brahman in advaita vedanta. the atman (individuated sense of self) is the brahman (the totality of all). in taoism there is the tai chi, which is the yin yang of division that exists within the wu chi, the totality of all. if you take max sheler's heirarchy of values and make the pyramid of values a radial map like a dartboard with concentric circles, you can lay in on top of the colour wheel i have suggested. the sacred at the centre could be defined as a deep awareness of the profound interconnectedness of all things and even deeper, the ultimate unity of all things. the values of truth, good and beauty could be seen as being closely related to awareness of profound interconnectedness and ultimate unity. to me the meta value is connection. this is the reason why the right hemisphere must be the master because it's core function is a wholistic awareness of profound interconnectedness and ultimate unity.

[@theobservereffectexplained1102]

Dear Ian I am huge fan as well. I got a lot of healing or/and inspiration from your work. Gratitude for your years of work. I am listening as I walk this morning. About the beauty, truth and good about a tree are: they may have fruit, seeds, shelter, and a source of oxygen and energy. I am a tree hugger. Intuitively we know trees offer a lot to life. It’s a possibility for goodness ..

[@geofry642]

I am a big Iain fan. This talk was fun to listen to! Great material this is

[@theobservereffectexplained1102]

Iain 🎉 thank you made great contributions to those misunderstood in misguided left brain culture!! I find your work true to human nature, beautiful language and good for humanity. It took years out of your life to express and I am great full and appreciate the opportunities to listen to several of your interviews. It’s a bit overwhelming to hear someone trying to promote their book or belief or just left brain stuff to create utility by association. Congratulations of your journey I am sure you will be rewarded with what so ever is beautiful, good and beautiful ❤

[@JiminiCrikkit]

such important work. Thank you all involved

[@ChrisOgunlowo]

Fantastic conversation.

[@VenusLover17]

Thanks so much!!

[@kevinbrookehudson6575]

Angels discussing humanity. ❤

[@MrGroovequest]

32:52 The faculty of appreciation : " Getting in deeper touch with reality... deepening into the field of value"..."Attention as a moral act" Great conversation.

[@annemariesegeat9397]

Love is that ground of being, the loving core, that is aiming… Eros is aiming... And the sacred is like a prism through which it bring the unknown to be experienced, to be known as the light will soften and that we get a sense of that grounding of being through the fundamentality of value. The true, the good, the beautiful. All other values will derive from that triplicate. I wonder if like Forrest Landry would say, they are separate, distinct, non interchangeable? Yet in a relationship to one another. Is ‘’the true’’ the transcendent? Beauty, the immanent? Is a value like a transcendent Harmonic that can be also prismerized down (yep, that word 🙂 ) into the sounds of an experience, a thought, an emotion, an action? Love is the ground of being, yes, but how do we do love concretely at the personnel, relational and cultural level? I just love, oh I love that conversation! The unified field of value, the sound and music before the language, the harmony, the interconnection, the maturity that as opposed to lower left hemisphere moral stage development that will try to sequence them in a strict way , The maturity in one’s being that will experience the valueception. Values co-evolving in tension. Some of those notions are part of my journey for quite a while, I am grateful to witness such depth and vision being expressed so clearly! Thank you dear all of you for an amazing contribution to this world. I love how you sing to our hearts! My Love to you beautiful souls! 🙏♥

[@Phoeagdor]

Moving beyond words - telepathic, resonation, simply knowing

[@annemariesegeat9397]

@@Phoeagdor Ode to the phenomenon of being a word Thank you because of a word And then another, as a musical poem That’d unfolds, One after the other, From nothing to my eyes nerve I can hear the birth of a note The pleasure of playing With beauty, with love, with verve The meaning I weave with them At my heart they enter as a filigree Weaven you, weaven me We are gold, we are silver May we write in threads to honor beauty The journey from the simple here to life A word is route, the word is map The word is crack the words is a sap Light, sound, vibrate liquid lucidity Can we hear the Love’s telepathy Ushing, ushing, warm and softly At my chest, it blows, its fills my breath Spacious, especial Spaciousness resonance Resonance in my electricity Love, can we feel it deeply the pulse of the heart sang by the earth The resonance between meanings’ birth Synchronicity Resonance in my electricity Love, can we feel it deeply Weaven you while weaven me 🙏💓

[@danielschulman4909]

This notion expressed around 1:06 that the essential light is so blinding it's unknowable and that it needs to filter through some kind of prisming to reach us as moderated light in the expressions of Goodness, Beauty and Truth . . . is in core resonance with the essential framing of Kabbalistic framing . . . the sacred reaches us here on this plane, this dimension as the Divine havingi gone through a series of filters to the point we are able to see it in our dimension, our plane, or realm.

[@waitingforthemoon9492]

Daniel, you make a good point. The problem is that the God of the Kabbalah is the Jewish God with all that it entails. What would the Kabbalah look like if it wasn’t linked to Torah and the Jewish God but rather to the God of All and no specific religion?

[@danielschulman4909]

I appreciate your point . . . it opens up what I consider to be a pivotal challenge for all of humanity . . . navigating the 'tension' between particularism and universalism . . . its a 'real tension' . . . the two need to be embraced and entered more deeply into simultaneously . . . there are indeed 'multiple nations', each with its own trajectories, purposes, etc . . . I was just sharing the full resonance between the point Iain McG. was making and the Kabbalistic framing (which is a very high resonance) . . that should not be a 'problem' as you put it at all . . . its up to each 'nation' to find its way through its own guiding principles and collective trajectory to it's particular resonance with Iain McG's essential point here . . . and through that dive into particularity of each will arise a stable, solid universalism on which humanity can anchor itself . . . Raymond Pannikar . . the great Hindu-Catholic human univeralist made this very important point. John Lennon's 'Imagine' is certainly beautiful, but the process of , journey of 'getting there' is not understood very well. I certainly honour any and all compelling particular framings . . . I spend much of my life understanding , for example, Taoism, Buddhism . . each have their own way, their own 'face of the diamond' if you well, of resonating with this . . I was merely pointing out the Kabbalistic 'face of the diamond' . . . by all means, share from your own lineage, the face you can bring forward. That IS the path to the Universalism we all aspire to.@@waitingforthemoon9492

[@williamjmccartan8879]

Thank you Zak, Iian and Rowan for a great discussion and it was a pleasure to see Iian and Zak engage for the first time, my own question or thought would be the word understand, it almost seems oxymoronic in the sense that when we understand, we stand on top of the knowledge we've been given. Peace

[@olenick9590]

I think u would enjoy laurel Airica..entymologist explaining the fork tongued use of english to subjugate...for eg..soar.. latin came from breathe out...and sore..arguably negates that in the psyche..its like the word descendents (to where? Hell?...) many of the words themselves are spells that need entymologising in order to break them...esp for the trauma bonded and subjugated arguably

[@newparadigmfish]

Brilliant introduction. Profoundly brilliant talk from both corners. I would have liked to have heard them shed light on evaluation. The mode that allows us to evaluate values/value. A mode that works in cognitive conjunction with a whole set of a’ priori modes; a set that allows for systemic thought and thus knowledge. I give value to the set that allows the mind to hold accord with value for that is the most fundamental thing of all. One ring to rule them all. Value is merely the pathway back into itself.

[@PromoMIAR]

Wonderfull. Thanks

[@peterfrance702]

Only humans can sing in harmony? I'm not so sure. A grand and positively orchestral New Zealand dawn chorus I once witnessed suggested otherwise.

[@nicholasporteron]

So much of Ian’s philosophy on “value” is a retread of Aristotle’s “virtue of character”. Here is a quote from Aristotle’s Nicomachaen Ethics. “Virtue of character never arises in us naturally. And so the virtues arise in us, neither by nature, nor against nature. Rather, we are by nature, able to acquire them, and we are completed through habit”

[@rooruffneck]

Hi to all. Where can we read the paper mentioned entitled The McGilchrist maneuver?

[@real_pattern]

Introducing The McGilchrist Manoeuvre article on jonathan rowson's substack

[@SensemakingMartin]

Another great chat

[@jeffbarney3584]

Sorry to keep commenting but man this is rich. Steiner in his work Riddles of Philosophy illustrates how with Pherekydes and Pythagoras had not yet separated out the three mothers and would have been experienced, in my opinion, as truth goodness and beauty. We can also see how then in and after Kant empiricism took Narcissian hold and transfixed us into a polarity dualistically cleaved into subject and object. @1:23:00

[@futurescapeart]

100 Minute Moments .. that’s good , roll with it brother

[@natashapope3785]

Purpose Value CONTEXT.

[@whussthadeal3798]

Haven't been quite so excited by words relating to metaphysical perception

[@hollysmith9995]

Curious what both of you think about the Quadrants in Integral theory ~

[@theobservereffectexplained1102]

Grasping for the possibility.. that would create potential for what matters… goodness, trust and beautiful… trials and errors… for survival and creativity both right and left may cooperate 🎉

[@mysticmardi]

before I could speak I could sing. sometimes I am mute. but I can still sing

[@lindawilson8318]

Beautiful

[@voornaamachternaam6159]

The cosmos is/was also termed as Oikonomia or economy. 'The basic meaning of the word is "handling" or "disposition" or "management" of a thing, or more literally "housekeeping". The place of learning or school for the souls who came from the Pathé of the fallen sophia or Logos who are not yet 'perfected'. So having this in mind, the cosmos has defenitely meaning and therefore our attention and participation will determine our future.

[@tuanocallaghan5089]

Shoebill storks are beautiful

[@brendantannam499]

Justice for shoebills!

[@slop123456789]

Would love to hear their thoughts on money as a means of perceiving and communicating value, as I believe the corruption of money is so connected to the cultural schizophrenia of our time. As a core metatechnology it permeates every layer of our civilisation, guiding and influencing our behaviour, decision making, goals, and even consciousness. Broken money creates broken incentives, which leads to broken systems.

[@carolspencer6915]

💜

[@gabrieltopan9315]

you guys se the world in duality , like this you will never see the whole picture

[@williamgilchrist558]

l quite agree.. purpose, knowing to respond toward the fundamental of values, those intrinsic, or natural laws, as indeed described most well, by Aristotle.

[@ssevkin]

Value is before everything

[@jamescastro2037]

To find purpose is to find a pur pose for what we dispose.

[@newearthlivingithaca]

I love the shoebill stork!

[@gabrieltopan9315]

beouty is not apealing to the nervous sistem . it apeals to the iner beeing

[@ssevkin]

I like "field of value"

[@lilianarovegno4325]

I thirst❤

[@malakiblunt]

This sounds a lot like Robert Pirsigs - Quality

[@gyurilajos7220]

I heard of the book that he actually read! and wrote about.

[@raymondanderson3624]

"hardcore left"! nice bit of unity there Zak

[@enlightenup4520]

@1:15 the detail from Zak about drinking coke really hurts the previous hour of amazing discussion. If you know people so little that you truly believe advertising is the main reason people drink soda, application of the amazing theory discussed will be nigh impossible. People mainly drink soda because they like it. Advertising works because it serves as a surrogate justification for choosing the (often unhealthy or unwise) product. Left hemisphere issues occur and remain because our BELIEFS ARE OUR PROPAGANDA. Advertising and propaganda work because they mirror and support our unquestioned beliefs. Short-term pleasure gain, despite unhealthiness, is a body-mind disconnection with culture serving as an enabler.

[@enlightenup4520]

EDIT: Oh lord! At 1:16 Zak says we just want to “feel good.” My gosh, has he never had a soda? “Feeling good” covers a lot of ground-from using the addicted substance to the deep calm generated by meditation. We can’t hope to progress if we keep using these terribly vague euphemisms.

[@JeremyHelm]

3:56 attention as a moral act. 3:58 the McGilchrist maneuver

[@JeremyHelm]

5:18 second volume, chapter 26

[@JeremyHelm]

8:16 civilization research institute

[@JeremyHelm]

11:12 page 1122

[@JeremyHelm]

11:45 center for what?

[@JeremyHelm]

11:59 perceivethe field of value

[@scottjones-singersongwrite6193]

A magic carpet ride into Truth.

[@Phoeagdor]

Deliberate intention attention resonation towards telepathy beyond words

[@schoolofmasteryformindfull1417]

Wouldn’t the Eternal Now answer the last question?

[@RMarshall57]

Given the fact that beauty is constitutive of our and other species, what are the motivations underlying the seemingly deliberate assault on beauty that characteises so much of postmodern culture.

[@nicoleortiz983]

Is Value will to power?

[@gabrieltopan9315]

what are your talents?

[@DaveL1Jones]

Love's Significance Look how far a flower goes to attract a bee A bee can recognise a colour, a scent and simple shapes. But a flower is so complex, so beautiful;. Surely it is more than a bee can appreciate! Why is nature so extravagant? So, is the flower there to please us? Why so pleasing a perfume? Surely, more than a bee can appreciate! This is a mystery that evolution can't explain! We pause, we stop and glimpse creation's design. And love is more than these things It affirms who we are Love reveals and realises the beauty in ourselves and each other. It gives us vision through meaning, through hope, through possibility. And from this vision we become what we might be: A realisation of the divine conception, creation's design: Beauty revealed through love 3d Beauty realised in ourselves and in each other Something a bee can comprehend (Written some years ago) Than you Ian

[@geoffreydawson5430]

Sir Anthony Gormly, is a sculptor who never explicitly argues for the beauty in life or the despair of death, but for our place in between. Event Horizon 2007 for example. In saying that in his recent BBC documentary, "How Art Began", he uses beauty endlessly. As one Egyptian said to the other, "apparently this will be important one day". "For who, their artificial intelligence from the Gods or for we poor souls doing the work?" Said his/her/they/them etc friend. Or it could be the genius of those we let out of asylums years ago for having autism and the like. Most bankers today are physicists that waste their genius. Speaking as one who learned to meditate (online) from an AI pioneer who saw its heartless potential decades ago and is now a master in the Thai Forest tradition of Ajahn Mun. He still loves science and is very contemporary, only constricted, thank goodness by the rules of his culture. Have we learnt nothing from the tonal artists, for all religions teach value?

[@chase1671]

I'm curious, who is the monk you reference?

[@geoffreydawson5430]

@@chase1671 Ajahn Martin Piyadhammo. First European (German) to be accepted into the tradition.

[@tahwsisiht]

35:00 existential risk

[@tahwsisiht]

TRUTH, to perceive the real thing. Only people who are dedicated to truth and have respect for it. No hiding the truth or manipulate reality. A system or organism have to be able to process the truth, otherwise you can't make decisions. Half of the truth is just manipulation.

[@Wicus51]

Aren't our nervous systems, isn't our nervous system, stemming from, borne from and born from, Nature, the Universe, Creation? Might that be how and 'why' we are so connected with inborn value and beauty? Inborn in Creation, the Universe. Nature? "Intrinsic" I like, the word, what it means. And we, as humans, are able to use and handle these intrinsic value. For the good and for the bad, as we use to call them.

[@manlikeJoe1010]

Is this what Rowson is doing now Rebel Wisdom shut their channel?

[@dreamtowermedia5301]

There is surely some truth to the idea that hardship brings people together and can lead to evolution. But as I mentioned in my comment below, the catastrophe that destroyed the Minoan civilization did not lead to something better, in my opinion (and I think we're seeing the evidence of that now clearly, though one need look no further than certain aspects of the Greek culture, and surely, the Roman). So, hardship may help, but a catastrophe may be something from which we will not recover.

[@gabrieltopan9315]

if you are vegetarian do you have value?

[@mysticmardi]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bqfGlph7ab6MqKs Responding to your brilliant conversation! We are at the tipping flipping point! Hold on for your life.

[@gabrieltopan9315]

beouty comes from the soul .

[@billwalt9026]

can't hear the interviewer he's moving around so much... some body close to him slap him in the face a wake up that we all would like to heard him. is he a narcissist? love that Iain mate

[@gabrieltopan9315]

think about how did you body came to be by accident or inteligent design?

[@garymackelprang5716]

Thanks to Perspectiva Press for making this available. Note: "Hundred Minutes" isn't bad; oh, wait! I have one: "Conversations to save humanity"

[@jeffbarney3584]

One sided empiricism is fixed, transfixed on ever complicated and complicating appearances and does not have the kind of thinking or the language to perceive value. At the root of human nature is the moral impulse as a spiritual activity which issues forth appearances and the mindset that results in empiricism. Kreyenbuehl in his article Spiritual Activity in Kant describes the interaction of the moral impulse with the empirical impulse as creating negative spiritual activity. Perhaps ironically this activity is a window into value as a ground of being in the moral impulse strongly satisfying the empirical need. The overcoming of the one sidedness is a kind of judo incorporating the empirical into pure reason.

[@JonathanDavisKookaburra]

if we take a position from philosophical pragmatism, like John Dewey's 'the truth is that which works', the idea that the true good and beautiful is at the same level as time, matter and energy, is simply a more helpful and healthy idea for humanity. even if it's a piece of fiction, a society can become stabilised by agreeing on the same cosmology. This cosmology could be mythic in nature, it doesn't have to be empirically true. To me whether this idea is empirically true, or a helpful myth, it seems to be the most likely cosmology for us to lead ourselves out of the holocene and into the symbiocene. What could be have more utility than that?

[@jared4034]

Mcgilchrist seems to be on the defensive as if he should be. It should be clear to him that it isn't necessary and that a greater synthesis could be achieved here with a more willing participatory spirit. Looking forward to part 2 within which we might see a less guarded ian

[@jeffbarney3584]

I saw only enthusiasm and delight

[@samparkes2477]

Not sure how you've drawn that conclusion. He seems incredibly responsive, lively and respectful and they seem to agree on everything.

[@gabrieltopan9315]

should you not learn to live from the heart not the mind?

[@SensemakingMartin]

You need to learn to do both simultaneously

[@natashapope3785]

Value perception? Pockets of people hitting the 'primordial' notion. Good sign. A new renaissance perhaps

[@zentryk]

Truth -> Goodness -> Beauty What is most true of all true things is what is most true. What is most good of all good things is what is most true. What is most beautiful of all beauty is what is most true. You must have a tautology, and if it's anything other than Truth objectivity is lost. If Goodness is prime: What is most true is what is most good; and what is most good is what is most good. The most good of all good things is no longer what is true, but whatever you decide is good. Logic implicitly appeals to a tautology. Presumably this would be truth. Perhaps the subversion in society is due to ones ultimate appeal being anything other than Truth. Leading to a feedback loop of subjectivity, blinding one to incoherence.

[@gabrieltopan9315]

do you think yoga is the most scientifically effective sport ever ?

[@dreamtowermedia5301]

The denigrating and near loss of the divine feminine seems related to the hemispheric problem. Perhaps the largest shift in civilization happened with the Ancient Greek culture. That arose from the dark ages that were created by the destruction of the Minoan culture (the most revered culture at the time and probably the closest thing that mankind ever had to a Golden Age of civilization). Faith and trust in Nature was shattered by this event (the eruption of the volcano on Thera), mankind in that region was thrust into about 800 years of chaos and strife, and the Hellenistic culture arose to bring order to the chaos, but not by renewing a faith in nature, but instead by developing a way of thinking where humankind could control Nature, since She could no longer be trusted as Mother and protector. I would refer people to the excellent book In Search of the Lost Feminine: Decoding the Myths That Radically Reshaped Civilization by Craig S. Barnes, which attempts to show the Minoan culture based on its art, and traces the loss of that culture and what it stood for up to the present day.

[@theobservereffectexplained1102]

Anthropologists may have examined human beings are subconsciously programmed for survival with several hormones such as testosterone, oxytocin, etc etc when we assume things lead to the good hormones we value IT, if not we push it away. We value things that create the possibility to goodness Since subconscious is more general we have filter what ie good, true and beautiful!!!

[@mysticmardi]

Are you left handed?

[@mysticmardi]

Yes, its above it. it is above the ai and the left hemispherians. and because it is above, it is not able to cause an effect on it ye vice versa.

[@mellonglass]

A point of departure is to leave the romantic to his own thoughts. Sure, make an imaginary construct of a dystopia in Blade Runner wealth, but realize immersion in an environment to refugee, can only perceive itself, it’s sounds and it’s own constructs. The strings of beauty was the stench of tannery, guts and the jello you also eat. Romantic fools. See me in my office.

[@gabrieltopan9315]

depresion has nothing to do with your hemispheres

[@natashapope3785]

Not all beautiful things are pretty.

[@gabrieltopan9315]

you need to find you meaning in life

[@gabrieltopan9315]

schkitzofrenia is a inner electric problem .you should learn earthing and schizofrenia is heald

[@radhuchristian8406]

Too much talk although enchanting on intellectual level... The intrinsic Value is IMMEDIATELY UNDERSTAND BY ALL SUBJECTS, it is the level of Universality as Omniscience & Omnipresence( Real Love) in instant Now and intellect is the preliminary sharp tool. Often a sharp tool cuts that instant intrinsic as wholesome universal into a snob of snubbed impertinence of Others Real Value!

[@natashapope3785]

Meat/milk industry doesnt know what 'value' means.

[@ThomasDoubting5]

From the introduction its no wonder why you struggle to grasp the cosmos , ridiculously convoluted , and grotesquely over embellished , i actually feel third party embarrassment .

[@PoezieRostita]

Zak Stein seems to be a little child struggling to be relevant but failing every time. His beard has no use. ;)