Understanding the Wind and Thermals for Mountain Hunting

[@christopherchoay9429]

I wanted to stop by and say thank you for all the informative videos. (I made a promise that I would say thank you to everyone who helped me plan my first hunt.)This was the first video when I started learning about hunting and thermals. This last Friday for 2nd Rifle here in Colorado, I finally harvested my first elk, first hunt, DIY, and solo! (Technically second since 1st rifle I was not successful in finding elk) That single moment when that herd walked in front of me at 42yds, everything about thermals came better than science. They saw me, but they never broke their efforts of doing whatever they were doing-walking and eating in peace. The second point about one of your videos about toughing it out also could not be further from the truth. On the 12th day of hunting (scouting and 1st rifle included), sleeping at 10k feet, with miserable conditions and missing the comfort of my home-I remembered how you said that it takes a split second for the hunt to change especially if nothing good is happening. A split second before that I thought about being that “pussy” you stated in the other video 😅. Another split second later I am staring into the eyes of an amazing herd of elk lead by a bull at 42yds! Thank you. Best wishes to you and yours. Happy Thanksgiving, Christmas, and a New Year 😎🇺🇸 Chris

[@CliffGray]

Thanks so much for the note Chris. Congrats on your first elk! that is awesome! I am so grateful that I could be of help. Good luck on your future hunts.

[@ram_bam]

This is hands down the best video on the internet on mountain thermals and how animals use them. Incredible content. You deserve way more subscribers.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Rick. Glad you found it useful. Really appreciate the feedback! -Cliff

[@tyb3938]

Exactly my thought. Great video, I downloaded it to play while in the woods. This explained why I couldn’t stalk the bulls in the wallow they have by a cold creek and why the elk love the spot my daughter harvested her fist bull this year but it was a windy and cloudy day so thermals were weak which allowed us to stalk within 20 yards

[@ram_bam]

@@tyb3938 Awesome! Way to turn knowledge into wisdom my friend.

[@artemioquintero7866]

The tips you share are worth their weight in gold.

[@CliffGray]

I really appreciate the positive feedback and am happy they are useful to you. Thanks!

[@cabinetmunch]

Thank you for this. I really appreciate the "real world" videos showing examples on the actual landscape. How you are not at 100k+ subscribers is beyond me.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks man! Well I'm working on that subscriber count, haha!

[@epa-c7007]

Just found your channel by dumb luck. This is the best video I've seen on youtube on the nuances of thermals and how animals use them to their advantage. I have watched a lot of vids trying to get a better understanding and all I get is the "wind up in the day/down in the morn and eve" info. The video examples of the terrain and directional icons were what made the difference for me. I could geek out on these all day. Ciff, thanks for the new content. Glad I stumbled onto it.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks! Glad you found the video useful and really appreciate the support for the channel.

[@Jaba6798]

This is the most insightful elk hunting video I've seen. I now understand why their sense of smell is so important. You are the man

[@ZachShannon]

You are the first person I’ve seen talk about elk moving town hill to bed. What you said makes a lot of sense. I’ve always been under the impression that they move up in the morning to the top 1/3 of the mountain. This is going to completely change how I look for bedding areas, thank you so much!

[@spencerbrady2425]

Seeing actual elk in the terrain you’re describing is insane. And the overlays you draw to show exactly what you mean makes so clear even I might learn it.

[@jeffzelinski5364]

Excellent information! Another common thing you could add is, after a early season snow fall (september). Once the snow starts melting, you will have small swirling thermals everywhere. You will have warm air rising and cold air (from the evaporating snow) dumping, causing havoc everywhere.

[@CliffGray]

great tip. thanks Jeff

[@aklaunch]

This may be the best video on the internet period.

[@CliffGray]

NICE! haha. thanks!

[@kosttoomuch]

Absolutely love this video. Just started out hunting a few years ago and have managed to pull a couple elk from the same spot without really knowing what I was doing. These elk are heavily pressured on public ground and the things you mentioned in this video are exactly how they act. Knowing the science behind why they do this gives me the confidence to make even better decisions on future hunts. Thank you so much for

[@Voicesonthewindadventures]

Hands down one of the best videos on mountain thermals I have seen. I truly appreciate you sharing your knowledge gained via likely research and from years of experience.

[@ChrisChoay]

I have been a resident of Colorado for over 15 years, and just now able to get into hunting because Uncle Sam liked sending me places where there are no elks :) The first video of learning about thermal and wind in reference to elk I found is yours! Thank you! Best wishes.

[@CliffGray]

awesome Chris. Good luck on journey with hunting. great stuff

[@christopherchoay9429]

I recently watched a video about things you kept all these years (items from the good of your truck). Ha! I saw you have the same Nalgene bottle here :) Thanks for sharing. March 1 can’t get here any sooner!

[@stewartengel5695]

Best Explanation I've ever seen on thermals. So much better than the usual explanation you get of just thermals rise in the morning and descend in the evening. Thanks for the great work you do

[@CliffGray]

Thanks for watching Stewart! appreciate the feedback

[@wadedugas169]

Outstanding video on hunting out west and understanding the wind and thermals. The drawings and illustrations on the screen are super helpful as you explain the thermals, wind, bedding areas, and swirling winds. Great job!

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Wade. Glad it was helpful

[@tealtazmanian966]

SPOT-ON! I've finally discovered the same things but it took me decades to finally figure it out like you explain. People should pay attention to your thermals explanations because they're SPOT-ON! Thanks for another good information video and how you detail why you're telling us how it REALLY IS. Not ALL animal are the same just like not all humans are the same but as you say. There are smart people and some not so smart. Animals acts as they WANT and not as you expect every time. You can only use what are NORMAL observations to plan an approach. If it were SIMPLE then everyone would get game every year. SIDE NOTE: This is MAY already and People should begin NOW getting things ready for the fall hunt and getting in shape for those MOUNTAIN HIKES...HA HA HA.

[@jamesdowis2346]

Being a flatlander i didnt even realize the wind would do that. Very good information.

[@johnoltrogge6333]

Thanks for the great info; you touched on things that I've never thought about, but will now.

[@robgreer9726]

Everyone brushes over this subject or just dips their toe into it, you took it start to Finnish and did a great job!

[@CliffGray]

Thanks man!

[@joshoooway]

You're a great teacher. Thanks for the concise, detailed explanations coupled with the annotations in your video

[@nmelkhunter1]

Well said Josh.

[@porfiriosalazar4263]

Wish I would have seen this before my hunt. Will definitely use this next year. Thanks for the great info.

[@desertclimber78]

Amazing insight into thermals and how they affect animal behavior. Thank you for sharing the wisdom you have earned over the years. I truly enjoy your content and learn from all your videos.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Jay!

[@thekickingwolf5115]

Thank you Cliff 🙏 I will definitely be utilizing these tactics this season!

[@bushleague3472]

Great stuff. I'm mostly a big timber still hunter, but this type of knowledge was a MAJOR part of removing the guesswork. Last November I was looking for fresh moose tracks without luck, early afternoon I realized that the thermal was still falling, dropped into a valley, found a track, and had my bull down by nightfall. A recent strategic advance has been still hunting "reverse" areas in the morning, and normal areas in the evening to maximize the amount of daylight game movement.

[@connerkubitz7208]

Wind shifting at a plateu screwed me on my closest stalk this season. Was getting close and talking until the wind shifted and they alarm barked and bounced never to be seen again. Definitely gonna be paying much more attention to terrain as I'm moving from now on lol

[@CliffGray]

That’s painful!

[@featherspreaderinc3146]

Well articulated presentation on the issue. Ask any predator. They know how to play the winds.

[@CliffGray]

👍

[@TheJasonfloh1]

This is the best video about wind and thermals that I have seen. Excellent examples and scenarios on how to use the wind to your advantage.

[@CliffGray]

Hi Jason! really appreciate the feedback. Glad you found it useful.

[@timg7627]

Excellent video full of experience and knowledge. This is the best explanation about what could easily be defined as ‘Advanced Thermals’ on youtube. Well done Sir.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Tim!

[@calineman]

Dang that just explained my exact scenario for the last three seasons.

[@mojustin]

I'm amazed by how many BS "hunting" videos have thousands of likes and this gem only has 419. I appreciate your time and knowledge. As a late onset hunter I have a lot of catching up to do and I don't get that from "Influencer's" Thank you!

[@CliffGray]

Hey Justin, really appreciate the comment. Thanks for the support - glad you are finding the videos useful!

[@SmallGameHunter]

the visual examples are really helpful. Keep it up Cliff

[@danramirez4290]

Not sure how I ran access your channel but so glad I did. Excellent content- just what our hunting party is looking for in our quest to improve. Thx u

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Dan. Glad it’s helpful

[@Irishstyle063]

Thank you. That was such an amazing explanation of thermals and animal behavior, as well as why they are doing what they do.

[@CliffGray]

Glad it was helpful!

[@rockymountainlockpicker9606]

I hunt the flattops and elkhead range in Colorado. It’s a special place

[@christophertaylor4095]

Great video, Super informative during my learning stages of hunting, thank you very much Cliff. I've subscribed and looking forward to more of your teachings. Best, Chris

[@crowriverwhitetails1295]

Fantastic video! Thanks for doing the work and putting this together.

[@CliffGray]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@RandyMan388]

Hello friend, thanks for sharing your knowledge. Truly wishing you all the best.

[@JonStpeter]

Wow! That was soooo helpful. I really appreciate it.

[@CliffGray]

For sure Jon! Thanks

[@RisingCreekCustomHomes]

Whatever the sun is doing is the same thing the thermal is. Rising and setting

[@robinworkman3621]

Another great video. I've never really glassed while hunting deer. After watching this video and your video on glassing. I was thinking,"I think my success rate is going up. I know this is for elk, I'm sure it will work.

[@stephen8666]

From my aviation studies I remember. High to low, hot to cold. That’s how pressure and air will move.

[@markbishop1161]

Extremely informative!!!! Love it

[@CliffGray]

thanks Mark!

[@southernhood5145]

next level. will listen again

[@CliffGray]

thanks man!

[@kythom7574]

Thank you so much for this video!

[@andrewbrown6522]

I used to hunt against the wind. Now I'm trying to hunt the wind. 10 years of blowng out animals (filled plenty of tags, not doing too bad) before i started to really understand how it should affect my approach and planning.

[@lexafied3d]

Super helpful thank you!

[@shahriariran44]

You are a true expert 👏👏

[@mg70898]

Great video. Thanks for sharing

[@joemiller9314]

Great video, learned so much from this video. Thanks

[@wade97ish]

Looks like W. Can't wait to hunt with you guys again this November.

[@CliffGray]

looking forward to having you back out!

[@billbreeding797]

Great information! God Bless America 🇺🇸 🙏 ❤

[@wadesoutdoors1914]

Thank you for your information .

[@bowfranklin01]

Love the videos awesome content on all of your videos !!

[@CliffGray]

Thanks so much!

[@tommurray1772]

Great job, thank you for the video!

[@CliffGray]

Glad you liked it! Thanks

[@One_more_ridge]

Great explanation!!!

[@clarencehopkins7832]

Excellent stuff bro

[@CliffGray]

thanks Clarence!

[@noahheninger881]

Thought i was going to see a video comparing thermal imaging 😂…jk guess I’ll just have to settle for older and wiser now! Great content.

[@j.clowers_outside708]

This is some of the most useful information on KZbin regarding western hunting I’ve seen. Everyone wants to make e scouting videos and talk about how they just call till they find a participant. There are more nuggets in this video than I’m able to take in during a single watch. This and glassing techniques will be saved to my phone before bombing in this season. Also, I see most of your information is rifle based. Have you done any archery and specifically archery elk videos?

[@CliffGray]

Thanks for the feedback. Glad you found the videos useful. Good luck on your upcoming hunts. I am not an avid archer, so you probably won't see any in-depth archery videos from me. I've guided a lot of archery hunts over the years though, so you may see some that are related to that... elk calling, etc...

[@Paul-q3m7k]

This is great . Thanks 🙏

[@timleininger7789]

Phenomenal breakdown.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks!

[@johnfrederikson2002]

Great video; thank you. J.

[@CliffGray]

Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks

[@whatspopin100]

Great video man

[@CliffGray]

Appreciate it!

[@maximosseas4377]

Damn good advice man!!! Good overall knowledge 💯

[@sheerwillsurvival2064]

Excellent and accurate information well done 👊🏻

[@CliffGray]

Thanks! 👍

[@shanedavis6306]

Great video

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Shane!

[@Dyna2023]

Would be curious about your approach to "hell holes", I tend to find elk in steep drainages and with any pressure, they hunker down in the bottom of high mountain basins, where the bottom is a "cool sink" or swirls, where they either see you coming down over the top, or its impossible to side hill into them, and there they sit and will stay put until pressure spokes them out, but it's nearly impossible to stalk down into the hell hole

[@CliffGray]

Yeah, that situation is pretty common on pressured elk. Post rut bulls do that a lot. If you have a group, you can push them. Usually it's pretty obvious how they are going to exit. Many a mountain bull has been killed that way.

[@jacobcollins7573]

Great video! Have you ever noticed thermals getting over powered by the prevailing winds?

[@CliffGray]

Thanks for the feedback. Your prevailing winds can over power thermals, but the typical result is swirling winds. Most "prevailing" winds in the mountains are not steady blowing breeze... it is more like sets of waves... blows, blows, blows, then slows down, then nothing, then blow, blow, blows... When this interacts with a thermal it usually results in swirling/inconsistent winds instead of completely washing out the thermal. A predator's nightmare for a stalk.

[@jacobcollins7573]

Thank you so much for the reply

[@richardkramer1094]

Think…hot air expands and continues to expand in all directions because it is a gas. It is just the reverse for cold air. Cold air contracts and contracts from all directions. Thermals are a product of expansion and contraction of the air heating up or cooling down respectively. The higher you get the faster the gas expands.

[@CliffGray]

Great way to keep it straight - thanks for the tip

[@danielfisher9344]

Great video and a lot to think about. My question is: If you're hunting in a stiff wind, how does it affect the thermals? Say the wind is blowing 15 mph from the north? Is there still thermals moving up and down hill or is that wind overpowering the thermals and all your scent is blowing south? Just curious about that. Thanks, Daniel

[@CliffGray]

Hey Daniel - just depends on the conditions and terrain. You can learn to read the direction of the wind by looking at leaves, mirage, etc… I have hunted many places where a prevailing wind is more relevant than thermals. Those place are usually less rugged terrain, less mountains/canyons/drainages

[@danielfisher9344]

@@CliffGray Thanks Cliff. I was just wondering. I get the basic idea of the thermals rising when it's warm and sinking as it cools down. Just wasn't sure if ya had to worry that much about them when you had a hard prevailing wind. Thanks again, Daniel

[@CliffGray]

@@danielfisher9344 👍

[@heron123100]

Hey man on the contrary what if the Aspen is below the dark timber line? Would they feed the below Aspen in the morning and bed down in the above timber ?

[@CliffGray]

There really isn't a hard and fast rule on this stuff... sometimes it will be dictated by the feed. They may hit the grass in the aspens or they may actual go about the timber... into meadows or above timberline grasses. Main thing to consider is that after they are done feeding... 90% of the time they are going to go somewhere with inconsistent winds that protect them. Hope that helps

[@heron123100]

Hey man one more question. I sometimes see that a south facing slope stays cold and dark even if its almost noon. does that mean that air will keep pushing downward on that slope even if the other side is warming up?

[@CliffGray]

It varies by topography. All it comes down to is temp/density differentials. So if a basin above the cold spot is heating up, it will pull air up through the cold spot.

[@Fizbini1]

there has got to be a way to cover up your scent effectively for hunting? im going to get into hunting this fall and maybe its a stupid question?

[@CliffGray]

Not a bad question. There are a lot of products that claim to help, but the only thing I’ve seen as a consistent defense is knowing how to use the wind while you hunt. I think the “covering our scent” idea is really abstract for us humans because our sense of smell is so weak. These game animals can smell dozens of smells at once and at 10x+ intensity.

[@jackjr1]

Due to this, if you have the choice, is it better to walk the high ridge and glass DOWN instead of going to the bottom of a ridge and glassing UP? Thinking that a stalk of an animal would be better if you started above it?

[@CliffGray]

All depends on time of day. As an example - If I glass up animals from the bottom, in the morning, I will plan the stalk around the fact that the thermal will start to lift air sometime midmorning. This means hiking around and stalking down, into the now rising wind. I pick my glassing locations on how effective they are as glassing points (how much I can effectively see from them) then plan my stalks on the current wind and what I expect the wind to do. I hope that helps! thanks for watching

[@jackjr1]

@@CliffGray ahh gotcha, so maybe prefer glassing from the bottom in the morning to avoid thermals coming down the mountain from the top but mid morning it may make more sense to glass from the top and look down since thermals would be running bottom to top. Which all depends on how good your glassing points are but in this scenario let's say they're equally good.

[@eolinetrash]

i have been trying to illustrate this to my friends and family for a long time. if there was one piece of information for a hunter its these thermal nuances not thermal generalities. in my opinion animals never abandon thermals/prevailing. it may appear there are exceptions to this but look closer. there is no better way to pattern feeding and bedding areas. thank you now i can send this off and say i told you so! would you say they usually favor the bottom half of the swirl vs the top half or right in the center?

[@wadesoutdoors1914]

Just say the thermals are rising and the wind is blowing over the leeward side . Can you set up right above wind tunnel we’re thermals and air meet to take a shot ?

[@CliffGray]

sure, if you can see enough terrain

[@wolverinekut]

Thank you Sir 👍💯

[@CliffGray]

Welcome 👍

[@terryhemmes6210]

Probably a stupid question but early November when snow is on the ground do the thermals still flow uphill? Or does snow cover make things flow downhill? Or is it a swirl lol. I probably shouldn't be over thinking this

[@CliffGray]

So it’s all about relative differences… that’s what causes the wind, one area air density lower than another area. So if there is snow cover it still happens. If there is snow in one spot and not snow in another spot… it might affect the intensity

[@terryhemmes6210]

I appreciate your answers. You've taught me a ton in the last 8 months.. gear masturbating is easy but this info is paramount and you break it down so even a blue collar guy gets it. Thank you

[@J.A.Fresquez]

I would like you to show a video on how find and locate elk on public land you never hunted people don't show many of those

[@idahotrophyhuntplanners]

Excellent video. I wish I had access to your videos 20 years ago. You talk mostly about elk and I'm wondering if mule deer behavior is similar when it comes to bedding and how they use thermals? I know mule deer inhabit all sorts of terrain so I am specifically asking about mountain terrain that is in your video. It seems big bucks tend to be more solitary than elk, except maybe post rut bulls. Does this affect bedding since they may not have as many other animals to watch and smell? Also, are you looking for a new best friend? Cause I'm available.

[@CliffGray]

Haha! I can work on a video on Muley behavior in the places I’ve hunted them. Thanks for the suggestion.

[@idahotrophyhuntplanners]

@@CliffGray I just looked at your website. Undergrad from Stanford and MBA. You are an impressive dude. You are sitting on a gold mine of knowledge and ability. You really should set up some sort of information highway that people can subscribe to. I would sign up and pay a monthly or yearly fee for access to your content without hesitation. I know the market is saturated right now but of all the resources I've seen and used (KZbin, goHunt, huntin' fool, Randy Newberg, hushin, muley freak, meat eater, various podcasts, various forums, etc) your content is hands down the best I've seen or heard. I'm not expert so don't sell the farm or anything but it wouldn't take much for you to gain a huge following. You could even hire someone to film hunts you go on but provide expert advice and explain the process somehow as you hunt to educate followers. Hell, you could offer followers the opportunity to be guided by you, but not just guided but educated. All the hunting videos I watch seriously lack the solid knowledge, experience, and ability to teach that you have. I would rather watch one of your informational videos than a 40 minute KZbin video of some dude shooting a giant buck or bull. Cause I would learn more. Anyway, just my 2 cents

[@CliffGray]

@@idahotrophyhuntplanners Really appreciate the comment! Great ideas, too. I’m working on my next steps…. Just thinking about ideas. I like the KZbin deal in many ways… get lots of feedback, big audience, and guys tell me the videos help them - not to be corny, but that is really motivating in itself. I use to do quite a few hunting seminars - think I’ll add that as an option for folks. Just working on a game plan, venues, etc… But again man thanks so much for the positive feedback!

[@robertwood6297]

very interesting

[@CliffGray]

thanks!

[@robertwood6297]

@@CliffGray I learned something

[@elkhuntr4evr]

Can make a few videos on stalking scenarios? Asking for a friend. Lol

[@CliffGray]

Haha! Tell your friend that when the snow melts, I'll get some out.

[@connerallred7829]

Do thermals change much when there is snow covering the ground, like does the overall air temp take longer to warm and rise in the mornings because of the cold snow? Amazing videos

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Conner! When our temps get into the low teen and single digit highs, I do notice that the thermals are just more mundane, not nearly as pronounced in our mountains. Prevailing winds can dominate things more.

[@robinworkman3621]

Can you tell in the mirage which way the wind is blowing? It would make sense to me that that would help pinpoint those areas where it's swirling and the elk may be potentially bedded.

[@CliffGray]

you can tell wind direction from mirage. another reliable indicator for a lot of the Fall is aspen leaves. Because one side is green and one side is yellow, they can tell you a ton about the wind.

[@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595]

@@CliffGray does the wind blow more on the green side or the yellow side?

[@allphase]

Thank you! Will black bears feed and hide out similarly around these thermals?

[@CliffGray]

To some extent. Black bears in the areas I've hunted them in make big seasonal changes based on food sources. During some periods, particularly September before they go to their dens, they are so obsessed with feeding and finding the best feed that they don't seem to use the wind much in their daily pattern.

[@lp7064]

Great video!

[@julianmurgia7741]

Eddy effect

[@Jamie-cf8tn]

So hunt with a rifle in the mountains and practice for long shots...got it! HaHa. I'm a bow hunter and this is the hardest part of bow hunting....can't fool their noses.

[@jackdundon2261]

I've killed my fair share of big bucks and a few big bulls over the counter public land hunts and I've often wondered if you were to go on a strict vegetarian diet for month before hunting season with the animals care that you were there. If you didn't have a meat eater smell about, you could just walk right up and shoot one???

[@robertriddle4822]

Thank you

[@christopheroconnor1847]

Thank you