Understanding UDIMS - Maya, Substance Painter and Mari

[@MichaelWilde3d]

If you're here just for a specific bit of the video, here's timestamps: Understanding UDIMs and the benefits - 0:00 In Maya - 5:28 In Mari - 7:33 In Substance - 9:34 In Arnold - 11:14

[@Ange-C]

This was incredible Michael, thank you for sharing and making more sense on this topic. I'm currently using substance and i am correcting my udims and never knew reason or how udims worked. I looked everywhere but as far as I know, you're the only person I found that explains in depth what it is and how it works both Mari and substance. Thank you so much. And i am following your page I'm looking forward to anything else I learn in your channel.

[@stylestep111]

So much great information packed into your videos. Your teaching style is excellent at demystifying daunting topics in an easy to understand way.

[@DisneyUpBoilerUp]

Oh wow. I never knew this. I've really been struggling with low resolution UV's. I never knew I could do this. This is great

[@electronicbagatelle]

Thanks being old school and having only worked in tv and animation this is really eye-opening and very simple to understand. thanks a lot.

[@julie_mg]

thank you this is fantastic explanation!

[@chrisrams3D]

Thanks!!! excellent video.

[@followthroughwithmishael3565]

this is a great class

[@isaicutz2386]

Tnks for an wonderful video 👊🏻

[@dumpsterDeity]

thank you so much! very densely packed and informative tutorial :) subscribed!

[@abbasabbasov6583]

Thank you

[@revocolor]

Great explanation thank u ♥

[@Stuff-3D-creations]

Hi, do you usually use a different material per UV tile?

[@shahzebmoosani]

Thank you so much

[@bakamund]

one thing i noticed when watching vids about using UDIMS, no1 ever talks about the texel density of their UV shells. Where in games this is established early on. In Film/VFX is the workflow such as; i) normalize all UV shells ii) scale up UV shells uniformly until the largest shell fits in 0-1 (i'm assuming this micro step) iii) start splitting up UV shells to fit as many tiles as needed/ by material **If you then find out later, you model's textures aren't holding up in the camera view/render. What do you do to remedy it? a) just scale up the texture UDIMs? if 2k -> 4k, if 4k -> 8k, if 8k -> 16k? b) double the UV shell size and rearrange the UDIMs, then reimport the new UVs into Mari/Substance and have the painting application reproject the textures onto the new UDIM layout?

[@thomasleclech2917]

Hello! I was wondering the same thing. I found this : www.artstation.com/artwork/W2PdQ2 ;)

[@MichaelWilde3d]

^ couldn’t have said it better myself. At the end of the day the main thing with VFX is it needs to hold up to the camera

[@First-and-Only]

nice mahn

[@Stuff-3D-creations]

Can you use 1 material, regardless of the number of tiles?

[@Beeblingz]

Hi there, I just stumbled upon your channel after learning what UDIMS are from a FlippedNormals Tutorial from around 2018-19. At the time they said that Substance Painter doesnt support using UDIMs but it seems they do have support for it now? If you already have any videos that go over this, I would love it if you could point my in their direction! By the way, LOVE LOVE LOVE Over the Garden Wall, and that Greg you did is awesome. Thank you.

[@MichaelWilde3d]

Hey yes Substance does have UDIMs now, I have a video about it on my channel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZCqpX-qnLubY7s

[@MichaelWilde3d]

It's not perfect but it's one of the main features it was missing! And yes OTGW is bloooooody incredible :D

[@ЛазарМитев-ф8н]

Thanks a million!

[@davidmccabe1544]

Hi, a great video. very informative. The issue I am having is that when i layout across multiple UV tiles I get shells that are out of their relative proportion compared to other shells, so the chequerboard pattern is a different size for different shells. how do keep these uniform? I've tried every setting in the layout tab and still no luck.

[@MichaelWilde3d]

Good question - So the way I do it in Maya, open your UV editor and then the UV toolkit. Under Transform there is a bit called texel density. Select the shell you want to have the scale of, then press Get. On the other shells now when you press Set it will scale them all to the same scale.

[@davidmccabe1544]

@@MichaelWilde3d thank you so much, that did the trick. You are nothing short of a wizard good sir! I really appreciate your help and time.

[@timmy7596]

Hi. I really like your content. I would appreciate if you could do a comparison of Render engines and which ones are must to learn in order to get a job in the VFX industry.

[@MichaelWilde3d]

Hi Timmy, thanks for the suggestion! I have a few already on Arnold which is used in some studios. Other software I know that is used like Clarisse I don't know well enough to be teaching (/ I hate using it haha). I've recently started using Redshift but I'm by no means qualified to be teaching it yet. If the arnold stuff sounds of interest check it out, but in general for lighting and rendering while it helps to know the one a studio uses I've found that you can often learn that on the job, so it's more important to understand it as a whole and how lighting & rendering settings work, rather than getting hung up on a specific renderer.

[@timmy7596]

@@MichaelWilde3d Thank you very much for the clarifications.

[@animatorizwan]

I do have a doubt in UDIMs. I am creating a super high detailed character which will be animated. Traditional UV mapping deals with seams and those seams should never be on face straight away as a cut. As while animating it will create artifacts. So If I create a human face which will be textured super high res for a close up shot. Can I cut seams in between of the face. Will it create artifacts??? Am also a bit confused of UDIMs. High res textures in specific regions-Awesome. For moving Mesh does it create artifacts??

[@KarelChytilArt]

Nice video

[@marcelogonzalez9565]

Nice video. One question, what is the better way to deal with textel density if you want to separate materials on different Udim tiles? Specially when the size of the meshes are very different? I mean should I change udim res, put several material on the same udim tile, or simply leave an empty space and go to the next tile? Sorry if my english is not correct. Thanks for the video!

[@MichaelWilde3d]

Generally texel density stays the same regardless of mesh size or material as you want the same resolution on one section to another. If you have a close camera on something you don't want the metal parts to look low res VS plastic bits on your mesh. So yer, generally you set everything to the same density unless you have something like backside faces that are never seen, or sometimes faces and eyes are given more resolution in a production as they are the first thing you look at

[@marcelogonzalez9565]

@@MichaelWilde3d got it! Thank you

[@mykotron]

I used to use UV sets in Maya... UDIMs seem to tackle the same issues. I imagine there is more to it? Such as just being industry standard now? But is UDIMs essentially just a rplacement for UV sets? One thats universal across 3D software?

[@MichaelWilde3d]

UV sets are used for some things in VFX pipelines, but rigging, grooming or making different LODs are the only times I've used them - not texturing. You can combine UDIMs and UV sets. Ss far as I'm aware, you can't set up shaders to use different textures on different UV sets of a single object so they're pointless if you want any of the benefits of UDIMs like I talked about in the video. Also Mari can't use them I don't think and I'm not sure Substance can either.

[@mykotron]

@@MichaelWilde3d Thanks for replying. Actually yeah we use to use UV sets and any number of different textures within a "layered texture" in Maya. Often times the texture on the top would be a decal type thing but we'd use it for dirt and what not as well back in the day. I'm pretty sure we did this on Battlefield 2 expansions. I haven't done much texturing in a long time so i'm trying to get acquainted with newer pipelines. Granted not many people used UVsets back then but I loved them. I can get used to UDIMs but it was kinda nice to have the little drop down to just switch to which UV set you were working on. Again.. I can see the benefit of having them all visible at once as well :D

[@A_Dog_You_Know]

I have been E N L I G H T E N E D Thank you!

[@sasho3d]

Thanks for the explanation Michael! How come are the lines smooth/highpoly on the UV tiles within the islands, but lower on the edges (i.e. 6:20 on the circle island)? It looks like the subdivision is increased and just UVd like that, but it confuses me why the edges of the circle island are not smooth as well from the upper subdiv.

[@MichaelWilde3d]

It's to do with the sub-div smoothing preview (3 on the keyboard), by default just internal's will smooth but the UV borders will not. If you were to actually smooth the mesh you can decide if you want to also smooth the UV borders. Since the borders don't change then the textures will still apply properly, but the internal UV's of the shell will smooth out.

[@sasho3d]

@@MichaelWilde3d Ah I see, so it is just a smooth preview? Sry I am a Max user and I don't think Max has a feature like that, you would probably need to apply a turbosmooth modifier to do that there but that would smooth down edges as well

[@DisneyUpBoilerUp]

@michael Wilde I already exported my UDIMs out, made textures in Substance, and imported them back into Maya. But, I need to drag my UVs around to a different location on the grid. I'm not rearranging the shells themselves within their tile, just dragging them to a different tile on the grid. Is there any way to make the texture that was already assigned a spot on the grid... move with the UV's shells when I move them to a new spot? I don't want to have to retexture everything in order to relocate my UV's. thanks.

[@MichaelWilde3d]

Substance saves it's strokes in 3d space, so if you move UVs but not the model it may transfer the hand painted stuff okay, you should just try and see how it looks. Chances are you will have to repaint something though, this is why planning ahead with UVs is so important :)

[@DisneyUpBoilerUp]

@@MichaelWilde3d yeah I figured that out, LOL. This was the first time I've ever used substance and UDMIs. When I move the UVs back in Maya, the textures stay put on the grid where substance put them. I was hoping there was some way to make the textures move wherever I move the UVs. But maybe that was just wishful thinking, LOL

[@AtulSingh-rt5oz]

Hi SIr IF We use texture set UDIM in Sustain but thier are many map genrated for per texture set thier any way to solve this problem

[@MichaelWilde3d]

Make sure you only have one material assigned to your mesh that you are importing

[@AtulSingh-rt5oz]

@@MichaelWilde3d I have to assign only one material like lambert to every model in my scene. then arrange the UV in a Different box-like UDMI. Then we are able to import all scenes in the sustain painter Sir?

[@jaffara2581]

Hey! Wouldn't you need multiple shaders if some pieces reflect different such as metal and rubber? How can 1 ai standard be used?

[@MichaelWilde3d]

No, that's what a metalness map dictates in the shader

[@jaffara2581]

@@MichaelWilde3d Thanks Michael!

[@theapexpredator157]

Idk, I'm still not convinced of udim's... The ultimate result seems like it would be the same if you have multiple tiles with less resolution vs. a single tile with high resolution... The total amount of computation for both workflows would be near identical...

[@MichaelWilde3d]

In a hollywood movie some assets are 100+ 4k udims... there's not a world where you could have a piece of software nicely making that amount of data in one single tile... substance hardly manages 8k as it is.

[@nicopmvm]

I heard that substance supoorts udims now.. Is that true? @michael wilde

[@MichaelWilde3d]

Yes it does now, I've got a video breaking it down on my channel :)

[@nicopmvm]

@@MichaelWilde3d thanks for the quick response. 🤙🏼Ill watch it right now.

[@Nexist]

you may not see this but how do i apply multiple base color nodes to one ai standard surface shader node ? one for every udim time

[@MichaelWilde3d]

In Mari? You only need one colour node for all the udims. If you want to add different colours to different parts of a mesh you need to merge stuff together and mask it out. Check out my video on the node graph for more about that.

[@Nexist]

@@MichaelWilde3d no no. I was asking in maya. But I got it. You just put one of the textures and maya detects every other texture using naming convention. Thanks for the video. Helped me a bunch

[@MichaelWilde3d]

@@Nexist at 12:07 I go through adding UDIMs in Maya, that's the proper way to do it :)

[@Nexist]

@@MichaelWilde3d yeah that's what I used. Thanks for your help

[@appdeveloper8011]

Thank you Michael, I've got a noob question on this. The only thing I know about textures is that they range from (0,0) to (1,1) and that a particular point on a mesh will associated with a particular texture and have a point in that (0,0)->(1,1) place. Are udims a technology that is on top of this concept that manages a set of textures? It seems like there has to be a way to associated a mesh with a particular index in the udim space?

[@MichaelWilde3d]

So you're right with your first bit - UV's are a way to associate a point on a 3d mesh, to a point on a 2d grid across a (0,0) -> (1,1) grid. That UV point can then pick up the texture lying on the same point. What UDIMs are in essence is extending that (0,0) -> (1,1) grid to a range above 1! While the naming convenions are 1001, 1002 ect. what they actually translate to is co-ordinates on a grid above 1,1. So a UDIM of 1002 is a grid from (1,0 )-> (2,1) I personally don't like thinking about it like that, I find it much more confusing, but if it helps you then that is what is happening. Some software like mudbox actually uses that as the naming convention instead of your standard UDIM naming conventions of 1001 and up. I would personally suggest getting comfortable with the UDIM naming conventions as mainstream texturing and rendering software these days rely on it! All maya or any other software knows is that its UVs sit outside of that (1,1) grid line, but when you tell inputted textures to conform to UDIMs (like I do with Arnold at the end) you are telling it that when an UV falls outside the standard (1,1) grid position, please assign the associated UDIM numbered texture to it.

[@Ange-C]

@@MichaelWilde3d I had another question. How do you keep the consistency of the udims shell when you use the get and set tool. As it just goes very tiny, and I'm manually trying to scale properly. Unless I am doing something wrong. Thanks!

[@MichaelWilde3d]

@@Ange-C So the get and set tool are incredibly powerful. To use it, all you need to do is select a UV shell that you want to get the scale from. Select the UVs of the entire shell then press get, then go to another UV shell and press set to give it the same scale.

[@Ange-C]

@@MichaelWilde3d hey , thankvyou for that. I had another question about scaling. In the uv when I select a set of uvs like bolts and set it to the same value as the other, they get very tiny. Should I be concerned? Or is that normal. And do I manually have to place them in the udim as one set of group or can layout do it auto for me. Sorry if I don't make sense.

[@claytomcs]

hi , how do u know how many UDIM's u gonna need when u UVing a hero object for exemple ? , u teach in a very understandable way too keep it up =)

[@MichaelWilde3d]

Hi there, It really does depend. The most important thing is making sure your textures have enough resolution. One of the pros of UDIMs is that you don't need one 16k image, as you can have many smaller 4k ones. So really enough to make sure your textures hold up in your renders. I've had models with just 1 or 2, and I've had models with 100+ because they were so large!

[@claytomcs]

@@MichaelWilde3d i get that but how to know how many , for exemple i used have a UV cheaker (1024x1024), them i set the camera as close as it gonna be when filming them i start to uv and separete in more UDIMS till i dont see the pixelated of the 1024x1024 cheacker , is that a good workflow or theres a better way . thanks for replying

[@MichaelWilde3d]

@@claytomcs I usually set my largest UV island to fit in as well as possible to one UDIM, set the rest to that scale and then just have as many as it takes to fit into that space. 1k is really low these days for textures unless you're doing games which doesn't use udims, so you can always do 2k or 4k textures

[@claytomcs]

@@MichaelWilde3d ooh i get it now, the 1k texture is just to orient myself about the closes it will ever get to the camera but u really helped me on that matter =) thanks

[@rephayersecondchannel]

Are UDIMs only used in VFX?

[@MichaelWilde3d]

They’re not used in games no

[@rephayersecondchannel]

@@MichaelWilde3d but games get better for example you have 3/4K texture game Assets get split into BG Assets Far Assets and Assets that are damn close lets say we want to have a high texel density in 1 Object that is always seen. For example weapon in Ego Shooter and you want realy nice textures no chance for UDIMs?

[@MichaelWilde3d]

I’m not a games artist so I don’t know but I know they don’t currently use UDIMs

[@bakamund]

@@rephayersecondchannel you'd use tiling textures and multi layered materials setup

[@tmcthree]

I'm struggling to understand what problem udims solve that separate uv sets don't. Is it *just* painting across seams? Also I'm imagining that, because a udim set is effectively a traditional uvset that occupies space outside the 0-1 range, each vertex would only be able to have one uv. Whereas with more traditional uvsets each vertex/face can have multiple uv-coordinates, which seems much more important to me. (Although I'm myopically looking at it from a technical artists pov.) What am I missing? What's the big advantage to using udims rather than multiple uv sets?