Undertale & Deltarune - All possible songs with "Penumbra Phantasm"

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

About Finale: The original motif of Penumbra Phantasm is written in 3/4 time. Hopes and Dreams and Finale are written in 4/4 time. If you copy the original Penumbra motif to HnD or Finale, you would get 2/8 Hopes and Dreams and Finale have different ways of solving this: 1. Hopes and Dreams spreads the notes a little further to fill the entire measure 2. Finale leaves them the same but steals the last 2 notes of His Theme to fill it TO BE CLEAR, THIS IS JUST A EXPLANATION, I'M NOT A BELIEVER OF THE HOLY OR FINALE, LOL, MANY OF YOU GUYS ARE ANNOYING WITH THIS. x.com/SrMetanarrative?t=IdheNA2t7Q3kz51Czo46lg&s=09

[@kotostrieb]

Toby when talking about the Holy on the sixth anniversary stream said that we wanted to use it to introduce a motif It's 100% Pebumbra

[@AgileAnimations]

The One in Finale is a His Theme Reference I think

[@fabiosonhandogrande1697]

You can't be telling me... That the variation on Memory in Finale was to make it sound closer to Penumbra Phantasm...

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

​​@@AgileAnimationsSorry for out that in any comment lol ​The original motif of Penumbra Phantasm is written in 3/4 time. Hopes and Dreams and Finale are written in 4/4 time. If you copy the original Penumbra motif to HnD or Finale, you would get 2/8 Hopes and Dreams and Finale have different ways of solving this: 1. Hopes and Dreams spreads the notes a little further to fill the entire measure 2. Finale leaves them the same but steals the last 2 notes of His Theme to fill it

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

​@@fabiosonhandogrande1697YES!

[@shade2006]

the Hopes and Dreams one is completely legit. it's even panned to one side as if it was intentionally hidden

[@shade2006]

the finale one isnt, its a mishearing on the video creator's part, its a glockenspiel playing a variation of His Theme the one in Save The World could be legit? as it sounds legitimate, but it could also be another variation of His Theme

[@shade2006]

upon listening, nah the StW one is definitely legitmate

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

Recently, I've seen some people talk that the finale case seems to be a mix of Penumbra and His Theme together, intentionally.

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

The original motif of Penumbra Phantasm is written in 3/4 time. Hopes and Dreams and Finale are written in 4/4 time. If you copy the original Penumbra motif to HnD or Finale, you would get 2/8 Hopes and Dreams and Finale have different ways of solving this: 1. Hopes and Dreams spreads the notes a little further to fill the entire measure 2. Finale leaves them the same but steals the last 2 notes of His Theme to fill it

[@LowPolyCatYT]

Itsxnot panned its stereo enhanced

[@perhapsmoose]

holy shit i was expecting these to be a stretch but the hopes and dreams one is just legit. like that's just penumbra phantasm wtf

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

that's so cool!

[@xstar9567]

It's actually Doctor

[@SamulolDumbass]

​@@xstar9567 no it's not

[@wildfire9280]

@@xstar9567 Hmm. Doctor… who?

[@Krispykreme15]

@@wildfire9280I’m wing gaster! The royal scientist!

[@VH9ila49]

Penumbra Phantasm brainrot is real

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

Umbra Ultimatum brainrot is real

[@GSavel]

Savior of the Waking World/Dreaming Dead/Fading Flame brainrot is real

[@eddie-roo]

We need Andrew Cunningham to get on this ksksks

[@francescacastronovo647]

Yeah but it's true, it's intentional

[@davisdf3064]

Twilight Reverie brainrot

[@tumamaentanquedeguerra]

This is very a penumbring coincidence

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

He Penumbring my Phantasma

[@1no1.]

Misread that as condesce for a single moment

[@GSavel]

While PP appearing in Finale is most likely a coincidence, PP appearing in THE HOLY and Hopes and Dreams is 100% intentional

[@godofportal5905]

WOAH ASRIEL D ONT WHIP YOUR PP OU

[@xstar9567]

I'm not sure about THE HOLY

[@RoseStudiosGames]

@xstar9567how.. are you unsure, when it’s literally almost the same melody-

[@xstar9567]

@@RoseStudiosGames it literally isn't though. It's different.

[@RoseStudiosGames]

@ ..do you even know what a leitmotif is? It’s a VARIATION OF AN EXISTING MELODY. It doesn’t sound the same, because that’s literally how leitmotivs work.

[@ismaelemhirruizflores8710]

I actually think THE HOLY may be more similar to Savior of the Waking World, a track heavily linked to Penumbra.

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

It is possible, the motif of The Holy is the first notes of Nightmare Knight together with the last notes of Penumbra Phantasm, so, if Penumbra (Deltarune) is similar to SOTWW or is directly the same, is very possibly!

[@joseoh5856]

Please, I don't understand your comments, could you explain to me? I am so confusef

[@fabiosonhandogrande1697]

​@@joseoh5856A track that pulls a melody out of another one can sound more like a specific version of that melody, somewhere else. I interpreted it as the one in THE HOLY being more like one in that Homestuck track

[@ismaelemhirruizflores8710]

@@TheDeltaruneTheorists Huh, I had never thought of it that way!

[@keaton5101]

if ANOTHER one of the most recognizable motifs in Homestuck becomes better known as a UT/DR thing im gonna lose it

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

yeah, me too

[@TheGrammarNazi123]

What was the first?

[@keaton5101]

@@TheGrammarNazi123 MeGaLoVania. it didn't originate from Homestuck but it was iconic there and several other tracks referenced it

[@HarleyPupper]

I mean, Toby may have meant Penumbra Phantasm to be a Deltarune song from the very beginning, hence why he hasn’t “released” it yet

[@destinymace]

​@@keaton5101Megalovania was a LiveAlive/Earthbound thing.

[@bengoodwin2141]

I think the part in finale could just be a variation on the your best friend theme, but its interesting that the similarity arises here too

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

yeah! ❤

[@greenberrygk]

No it’s meant to be His Theme

[@bengoodwin2141]

@@greenberrygk oh yeah I guess I got the names mixed up

[@Cooley_08]

I always thought that it's his theme

[@PokeRen]

I really don't think THE HOLY is that much of a stretch as people are saying. Like come on, you are at shadow's edge (dark fountain), shattering the twighlight reverie (closing the dark world). If it's gonna show up anywhere, it's gonna be here.

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSIR

[@leeweegee1525]

I feel like the fanbase discovering all of this is just gonna make the (99% absolutely positive) reveal of this theme in game, just all the better. Like going in, we know how significant this theme is, and it'll make it hit just that much harder, I think. >:)

[@fabiosonhandogrande1697]

I feel like if I was Toby and wanted to make a "less certain" version of that Penumbra melody, it'd be like THE HOLY. The way final 2 notes are a hit, then the one above, after the rest... It's like a small confirmation

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

@@fabiosonhandogrande1697 YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSIR

[@AndrewIdot]

the finale one sounds more like asriel's theme than penumbra phantasm honestly, your transcription was a bit off too

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

It was the best I found, in my opinion, Penumbra is definitely in finale even if only by a few seconds (literally) I like following the logic of finale - hopes and dreams - save the world.

[@yomama9390]

it is, the guy's got brain rot

[@insertnamehere1398]

@@TheDeltaruneTheorists well omega flowey isn't the true final boss unlike the asriel fight

[@vrad_exe]

The Hopes and Dreams + SAVE the World ones are the only instances of this that are really definitively there IMO. The Finale melody at that part is just Asriel's Theme, meant to hint at Flowey's true identity when you're doing neutral for the first time. The Holy is somewhat similar, but it's definitely not exactly the same. Either way, I personally find the idea of Toby directly reusing a Homestuck song in Deltarune kind of weird. Even though Penumbra Phantasm itself never got used in HS itself or included in a soundtrack release, the various leitmotifs from it still appear throughout other HS music (including non-Toby Fox songs) to the point of being iconic, and are just "Homestuck leitmotifs" in the minds of many people (myself included - note I also played both current DR chapters before reading HS or listening to any of its music...) Even though Toby made the song and, legally speaking, owns the full rights to it, it would kind of feel like he was stealing this part of HS's identity if he just reused these iconic leitmotifs... And before anyone mentions Megalovania, that song predates HS entirely, so doesn't have as close of a connection to it. The Undertale version actually specifically skips over the parts of the song that were added for HS, because they contain HS leitmotifs (which were also made by Toby IIRC, but didn't carry over into Undertale regardless). All that being said, the twilight reverie stuff and links to the prophecy are fairly convincing, and seems far more connected to Deltarune than it ever would have with Homestuck. If Penumbra Phantasm does end up appearing in DR, it will probably be a heavily modified/updated version which separates itself from HS a bit more while retaining the same feel. Thinking about it, maybe the melody in The Holy was specifically meant to be a "non-homestuck" variation of the Penumbra leitmotif, intended to later appear in an updated version of that song. It's an interesting theory.

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

First of all, thank you very much for your comment and sharing your thoughts, it is very appreciated when someone bothers to write a cool cool comment like that. ♥️ I think the same, I think The Holy is a way of telling us that Penumbra em Deltarune is not the same one we know, according to Toby, he wanted to introduce a leitmotif (NK) but he ended up using another song more evocative with a different motif (Fountain - --> The Holy) if you listen carefully, the motif of The Holy is the first notes of Nightmare Knight along with the last notes of Penumbra Phantasm (being quite similar to the case of His Theme) The original motif of Penumbra Phantasm is written in 3/4 time. Hopes and Dreams and Finale are written in 4/4 time. If you copy the original Penumbra motif to HnD or Finale, you would get 2/8 Hopes and Dreams and Finale have different ways of solving this: 1. Hopes and Dreams spreads the notes a little further to fill the entire measure 2. Finale leaves them the same but steals the last 2 notes of His Theme to fill it Penumbra Phantasm is always hidden as a motif behind other songs and that's misleading, I think they're just clues that it will appear. In my opinion, it is quite possible that it will appear in both but I think that in Homestuck^2 it will come out with another name (or directly the same) a little different with motifs from Homestuck and in Deltarune it will be the song of the final boss with motifs from Undertale and Deltarune Likewise, I recommend you stay here because I will soon upload a theory about this.

[@insertnamehere1398]

idk. it would feel weird if penumbrs wasnt goingto have greater meaning to DR

[@whocaresaboutthename6850]

Just go in the Penumbra brainrot already and stop being a PenumbraRune Denier, it's basically happening and you just can't stop it.

[@higueraft571]

>Either way, I personally find the idea of Toby directly reusing a Homestuck song in Deltarune kind of weird. Oh uh.... The Carnival/The Circus, about a Purple Clown who's a follower of a Mysterious and Powerful Big Bad, who's seen the "seams of reality" and was Changed by the discovery of his Existence, and the fact that His Choices Dont Matter. (Though Gamzee's DOES feel more Deranged than Jevil's) It's actually kind of nuts HOW similar these two are. Also Big Shot and Beatdown. (Alongside Spamton being a Blinged out Puppet that functions as a Vessel for a Soul, being ANOTHER Aspect of the Big Bad, alongside the Clown) Toby Fox is 100% ABSOLUTELY using Homestuck songs in Deltarune :V And i feel like it's going to get even *MORE* solid if, say, the 3rd Secret Boss is oddly similar to Lil Hal (aka Auto-Responder)... And for a total crackpot theory from this train of thought: Gaster ends up acting as a "Lord of Space", in comparison to Caliborn/Lord English's "Lord of Time".

[@GSavel]

​​​@@higueraft571Don't forget (heh) that Hotland is literally just LOHAC, Snowdin, the Ruins, and Waterfall heavily resemble LOFAF, Derse, and LOWAS respectively, Queen having Kanaya's text quirk, Lancer having a pail for kismeses, a sign in the Cyber Field having a troll on it, 'Oh My...' and 'Susie' having 'Killed by BR8K Spider!!!!!!!!' in it, Clover's section in the Omega Flowey battle having Terezi's theme (repurposed in UT:Y as the Wild East leitmotif), and the Kickstarter literally mentioning fantrolls, just to name a _few!_ Heck, despite being a fangame, the connection grows deeper with UNDERTALE: Yellow. The Dunes resembling LOPAN, the playing card motif with the Feisty Five, and Dalv not only resembling a troll, but also being based on vampires, JUST LIKE RAINBOW DRINKERS ARE!!! There's probably even more that I haven't realized yet! Also, I'm betting that Chapter 4's secret boss is going to be based on Caliborn, since it's all but confirmed that Chapter 4's Dark World is going to be in the church.

[@PokefreakofBACON]

I think you missed one. Starting at 1:00 in "Alphys" the main melody seems to be a major key/variation of Penumbra Phantasm to my ears.

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

Interesting

[@dyingprocessor3715]

holy shit! i fucking love how toby is hiding things in his creations!!!!

[@pialamode]

I’m surprised nobody’s pointed out Noelle’s theme uses a very similar progression to Penumbra Phantasm as well

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

interesting, probably coincidence but cool!

[@GSavel]

While that is likely a coincidence, the Lost Girl motif is basically the same as the Nightmare Knight motif, which is another piece of evidence supporting that Dess is the Knight

[@virtualdash]

I feel like the motif in Finale is less of a stretch than people think. Like it’s not close enough to definitely be it, but it’s also not different enough to dismiss it

[@hyrothesecond]

this is the crack shit wevneed more of. complete wild ass haymakers

[@Cobaltoad]

dude oh my god how do people even spot these motifs. i couldn't hear any of them until you isolated the specific instruments 😭😭

[@This_Guy_Exists]

0:09 thats literally the His Theme motif

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

check the pin message

[@mr_pants278]

He always did love a good leitmotif, what a guy.

[@MinorLife10]

I never heard Penumbra Phantasm before, so for me it sounds like if Gaster theme was His theme P.S. now that I think of it, Patient (that was reused as Another Medium) also has a similar motive

[@spark9189]

the finale one i think is just mean to be his theme, but hopes and dreams/save the world is 100% intentional and the holy feels close enough there is also another motif used in undertale that comes from penumbra phantasm. once upon a time. the main motif used across all of undertale.

[@vicke4_]

Great video! Must’ve taken a lot of time finding all these moments

[@Neytfliz]

Alright the Finale one is just a different version of Memory. Though Hopes and Dreams is extremely legit

[@ВладимирХоружий-г4ъ]

For the Finale, I always thought that's his theme motif

[@RoseStudiosGames]

That’s because it is. The poster was probably confused because of some misshearings. Let me link the ACTUAL no melody version, which proves it’s his theme.

[@BasilOllieMoonn]

Oh interesting (also funny cause i was arguing with someone over finale yesterday)

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

I really like the finale one

[@wj11jam78]

I think these are all just instances of his theme

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

I mean... HaD and StW sounds so similar...

[@insertnamehere1398]

actually the only instance of his theme is in finale. these are legitimate.. except for the one in finale-

[@fabiosonhandogrande1697]

C'mon, now, the one in Hopes and Dreams is DEFINITELY it... And It's WAY clearer in SAVE the World!

[@whocaresaboutthename6850]

How is 'THE HOLY' 'His Theme' in ANY WAY?

[@anon4305]

Intriguing that every time the motif appears in Undertale it's associated with Asriel. Also intriguing that the Flowey battle mixes it with Asriel's motif. I wonder if it's a secondary Asriel motif or even a "God" motif considering the possible allusion in "The Holy" and that Flowey X and Asriel Hyperdeath Form are technically "Gods".

[@dirtkiller23]

could it be just a general motif when "fighting gods" like freedom is for secret bosses

[@Thebeststickman1]

Pentumbra phantmsm

[@omeg5473]

THE HOLY is definetely more to savior of the waking world, considering the shared instrumentation and leitmotof

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

A song that is still related to Penumbra, that's why I think we're going to get a Savior of the Waking World on CH7 along with a new Penumbra

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

I believe that the Penumbra of The Holy is more related to the song of Dephts (Savior of the Walking World of Deltarune) which will have Penumbra motif. But The Holy is still related.

[@Antennna926]

rude buster also has the holy ish motif and penumbra phantasm motif at around 0:29

[@Antennna926]

@radiosilent0 It's similar ish if you listen to the penumbra phantasm in the holy but Toby most likely did it intentionally

[@cable_g0re]

these games are making me insane

[@neopalm2050]

you forgot all the things that came from the first piece of The Legend too. Or maybe it's more obvious when it appears in the intro of My Castle Town.

[@The_Endless_Now]

C'maaan, that last one's a stretch _literally_

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

@@The_Endless_Now the first notes of nightmare knight and the last notes of penumbra

[@heehee4454]

something else i (literally just now) noticed, penumbra phantasm also (kind of) appears in your best nightmare. at the beginning of the song for example, it plays a slowed version of the first three notes of the PP motif with some alteration after. it does this for almost every other instance, as well.

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

maybe

[@heehee4454]

respectfully, its a definite motif. i mapped it out in fl studio and its the exact same note interval, minus note pitch which i dont think is the exact same

[@ZesTofthelemon]

Gonna see which of these I can debunk with facts for funsies. 1. Finale's is definitely closer to His Theme rather than PP 2. Real, practically confirmed. 3. Real, confirmed by proxy of it basically being the same section as Hopes & Dreams 4. Real, at least I believe it is. Much more similar melody than Finale, at least. ...fair enough

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

@@ZesTofthelemon fair!

[@mrtrafficconedude]

Chaos King also has a bit that is designed to sound similar to THE HOLY, and in turn, Penumbra Phantasm

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

oh lol

[@CompactStar]

what part is that?

[@casual_bongos6988]

this really penumbras my phantasm

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

Penumbring Phantasming

[@JJTesyCrew]

I like when they penumbra all over the place

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

yes!!!

[@NothingGgs0]

Prunsel is gonna to Penumbraning us

[@NothingGgs0]

or just noelle bruh

[@LilyCat2399]

Okay so it's literally just in hopes and dreams omg hahaha *maniacal laughter

[@Symphony621]

I mean, all three of Flowey/Asriel songs mentioned have the "Your Best Friend" motif

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

yeah!

[@Cs-vs7qk]

Phantasizing penumbra the song real Even though it'd be really cool if toby intended to put the penumbra phantasm motif, I feel like Finale and THE HOLY might be unintended. The finale one just feels like an accompaniment for the obscure His Theme leitmotif especially since it's in a different rhythm that goes exactly the same as the his theme motif. For THE HOLY, toby maybe wanted to create a different melody unrelated to Penumbra Phantasm but ended up with this - the fact that Savior of the Waking World and THE HOLY share similar atmosphere made me think that it would make sense for toby to put the secret leitmotif in THE HOLY, but it can also be a reason why they ended up being similar if you assume toby didn't intend this. This is actually just like the case of The Chase with Nightmare Knight, people speculated The Chase has NK motif but it's not exactly the same. I still feel like it is possible that toby is tryna mess with us by adjusting these melodies a little bit, but at the same time I don't think toby fox ever did this kinda thing when it comes to leitmotifs (Even though there's so many toby fox music out there that I don't know) including the leitmotifs that were transferred into a different game/comic from another. The Meglaovanias / Patient - Another Medium / Metal Crusher - Noisemaster Theme shares the exactly same melody or the same melody in a different key, which is not the case for THE HOLY - Penumbra Phantasm / The Chase - Nightmare Knight. (oh btw I read the pinned comment, but I still think that finale could be taken as a coincidence/unintended. HaD and StW ones seems legit for me but it could still be the same case as Finale. Penumbra Phantasm motif isn't really complicated so it seems possible that toby used the same melody as an accompaniment for these songs without intending to do so imo)

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

yeah!! thank you for your comment!

[@whocaresaboutthename6850]

This is legit Denial, just accept the PenumbraRune Brainrot, it's happening and you can't stop it.

[@Mechobree]

I really think it's rather strange that Toby is using quite an important Homestuck motif inside of ut/dr. Enough for me to believe that it's NOT going to be an important motif for dr and it more serves as an easter egg. It being hidden inside of H&D and STW in Undertale is almost definitely meant as an easter egg rather than having any hidden deeper meaning, and if you believe otherwise then I think you've dug a bit too deep. I cannot imagine he'd hijack a motif like that and undermine it's original meaning, with Megalovania it's different because it wasn't originally created to be a motif for something in specific, it's not Vriskas theme and it isn't Sans' theme and it can very well be used for something else in the future to detach the association with Sans. It is a very nice sounding motif though, which is likely another reason why he'd use it.

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

I mainly have 2 theories: 1. Toby Fox has said that Hopes and Dreams is a very important song for him, so maybe Penphas here is just a tribute. 2. It is a "foreshadowing" to the song that a character in DELTARUNE will use, such as Ralsei, who is an anagram of Asriel, so Penphas (could) be the opposite song, the Titans, who are "accumulation of fantasy that has taken shape from the fountains" (phantasms) (also phantasm/fantasy come from the same word "phantazein", and fantasy is a recurring theme in Deltarune), or Gaster (he is the one I would least like to use it).

[@RamizLeCeleste]

Darkness and Dreams leitmotiv

[@Flynnisthename]

The holy is the most obvious one imo

[@2ou1]

i can't escape the homestuck...

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

you can't fight the Homestuck!

[@maximyllion]

feels weird seeing people call the DOCTOR leitmotif penumbra phantasm i know it's how the notes are played but ugh

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

It's strange how crazy Toby is about Penumbra making this lol

[@antoniovilar63]

yeah. but we can't just make 'em stop approaching the song

[@gigogrom216]

Homestuck

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

Beyond the Canon

[@antoniovilar63]

​@@TheDeltaruneTheoristsdon't say that freaking name again!!!!

[@BananaJuice-ue6pi]

I think the one in finale is a version of 'his theme' / asriel's theme. I did not know of this track but toby is known to reuse some tracks

[@uraynuke]

the first song, Finale, is just obviously His Theme

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

Yes! I believe it's His Theme! I just put the most "possible" ones. I don't believe The Holy too.

[@Seaseleg]

0:12 mmmmm Nah its just his theme

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

The original motif of Penumbra Phantasm is written in 3/4 time. Hopes and Dreams and Finale are written in 4/4 time. If you copy the original Penumbra motif to HnD or Finale, you would get 2/8 Hopes and Dreams and Finale have different ways of solving this: 1. Hopes and Dreams spreads the notes a little further to fill the entire measure 2. Finale leaves them the same but steals the last 2 notes of His Theme to fill it

[@AverageMegamanZeroFan]

​@@TheDeltaruneTheoristswhat does that have to do with anything? did you even read the comment??? just listen to his theme, and THEN compare it to penumbra. it's alike, sure, bit that's like saying that megalovania is in, like, the chase. it's very obviously his theme, and makes more sense thematically. the Hopes And Dreams and Save The World ones were very intentional, because we were fighting Asriel's Final Form, which in undertale, is LITERALLY the angel. the penumbra Phastasm melody is reserved to the angel. which is asriel and the angel from deltarune. the one in finale is his theme, because flowey at this point isn't soulles anymore. that's it. it's not penumbra, it's just his theme. you don't need to say "oh, but the time measurements" because they don't matter. the notes aren't the same, the key is the same, sure, but that's it. just cause the key and last two notes are alike, doesn't mean they're the same, that's like saying that stronger monsters has alphys' theme.

[@AverageMegamanZeroFan]

and the finale part doesn't steal the last two notes from his theme, that ENTIRE PART is his theme. listen to a deconstruction of the song instead of a bad isolation.

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

@@AverageMegamanZeroFan I got that information from the R.V Pine server where they know much more about music than me, I appreciate your comment but for me it is Penumbra Phantasm. 🤷. All three have the presence of the YBF motif (which is found in MSPAR Remember: Penumbra Phantasm) they are connected to Flowey & Asriel

[@AverageMegamanZeroFan]

​@@TheDeltaruneTheoristsno, it isn't. rv pines put the ybf motif as a placeholder. actually READ THE DESCRIPTION OF THAT VIDEO.

[@ahmed4363]

The others I agree have PnPH 100% but Finale is just his theme.

[@32th]

Will we need the dmca 666 for Penumbra Phantasm?

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

erm..

[@insertnamehere1398]

the finale example is actually just "his theme" not penumbra phantasm. the hopes and dreams one and save the world ones are penumbra tho. and the holy prooobably is penumbra

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

sorry for put that in any comment lol The original motif of Penumbra Phantasm is written in 3/4 time. Hopes and Dreams and Finale are written in 4/4 time. If you copy the original Penumbra motif to HnD or Finale, you would get 2/8 Hopes and Dreams and Finale have different ways of solving this: 1. Hopes and Dreams spreads the notes a little further to fill the entire measure 2. Finale leaves them the same but steals the last 2 notes of His Theme to fill it

[@insertnamehere1398]

@@TheDeltaruneTheoristsno… it IS his theme. I’m a homestuck mega an I’ve studied the 2 songs in and out. It’s his theme… note for goddamn note

[@insertnamehere1398]

@@TheDeltaruneTheoristsplease stop being stubborn and trying to defend the inclusion of finale it makes you look like a prick

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

​​​​@@insertnamehere1398I give up, tbh, I don't want to discuss with Penumbra finale anymore, ty. I don't believe it lol. here's my deconstruction of the song,, anyway. cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1242519484749844581/1282457671437389824/image.png?ex=66e0bec7&is=66df6d47&hm=3c6c45ba1e3d0f4aa900e6503fb48fceb037428e4cbfb5f37f0f6dbc44de7c8c&

[@ggjade]

Penumbra Phantasm psy-op is how homestuck will win

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

wdym with this btw (a bit late my reply)

[@hollownora2818]

i think yt might be telling me to read homestuck lol

[@zorubark]

Theres also once upon a time in Penumbra Phantasm

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

It's possibly a coincidence, but yes

[@ayyteen]

She’s playing piano kinda sounds similar to Penumbra as well, not sure if it’s a subtle reference or if it’s my ears playing tricks on me 😅

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnjLeXd6msieha8si=QVSUxQ1q-wEdkWeW

[@StefanTCTS]

finale is asriel's theme

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

sorry for put this in any comment lol The original motif of Penumbra Phantasm is written in 3/4 time. Hopes and Dreams and Finale are written in 4/4 time. If you copy the original Penumbra motif to HnD or Finale, you would get 2/8 Hopes and Dreams and Finale have different ways of solving this: 1. Hopes and Dreams spreads the notes a little further to fill the entire measure 2. Finale leaves them the same but steals the last 2 notes of His Theme to fill it

[@StefanTCTS]

@@TheDeltaruneTheorists Oh okay

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

​@@StefanTCTSactually is more hard than that, but "soon" I'm going to upload a big Deltarune theory with all of Penumbra explained. 😅

[@StefanTCTS]

@TheDeltaruneTheorists ok 👍

[@1no1.]

Op. Op ily. Ily ssssssssm you don't even know.

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

wha-

[@1no1.]

@@TheDeltaruneTheorists don't worry about it

[@porygon4023]

Wasn't it also in Before The Story?

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

There are many other examples that are simply coincidences, Before The Story is one of them

[@AMonsterLion]

my singing monsters reference *laaaulululaaulululaulaluu*

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

​@@AMonsterLiontrue

[@groetaer]

so you're telling me the ''his theme'' motif in finale is penumbra phantasm..

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

@@groetaer yeah The original motif of Penumbra Phantasm is written in 3/4 time. Hopes and Dreams and Finale are written in 4/4 time. If you copy the original Penumbra motif to HnD or Finale, you would get 2/8 Hopes and Dreams and Finale have different ways of solving this: 1. Hopes and Dreams spreads the notes a little further to fill the entire measure 2. Finale leaves them the same but steals the last 2 notes of His Theme to fill it

[@denofcuriousmeltherat8378]

Oh. Just noticed ?

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

nah, I noticed that 4 months ago! ty for your comment ♥️

[@denofcuriousmeltherat8378]

@@TheDeltaruneTheorists three years ago. But didn't want to make some homestuck fans panic

[@blueskythlikesclouds]

finale is a stretch. that's just His Theme

[@Sam-S-a-m-Sam]

Well, you could say "His Theme" also has the Penumbra Phantasm motif. His Theme is based on Once Upon a Time and Penumbra Phantasm also has the Once Upon a Time motif. It's not a stretch at all.

[@ANDRESALEGB]

What about "She's Playing Piano" on the undertale OST?

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

I already uploaded it! kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnjLeXd6msieha8si=i3ROxqVaoIGjwJky

[@C0lby-J4ck]

This really made my sun slam fr

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

Home & Stuck!

[@Absoli3210]

Penumbra Phantasm also has a little bit of Undertale’s main motif near the end on the piano version

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

Actually no, the piano version was leaked and uploaded in 2017, but it was made before his dream (2011) That part is actually a reference to Doctor, you can also hear the part in "Saviour of the Waking World" which is from 2010.

[@Absoli3210]

@@TheDeltaruneTheoristsis it, tho? I can’t hear any part of Once Upon A Time on that song, can you say in what time does it play?

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

@@Absoli3210 drive.google.com/file/d/10m2J6z8lCGeLiZ34k03Dl1ZoiUNbHkVV/view?usp=drivesdk this is SOTW, June 2010. kzbin.infoUgkxVK9TmkEjuewMbfFayuKGBgVvDmz7oZuD?si=ZBPiN71vqllmWsWi this is Penumbra Phantasm Piano They are the same

[@Absoli3210]

@@TheDeltaruneTheorists huh, thats a pretty weird coincidence, if it’s just a coincidence at all.

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

@@Absoli3210 many people say wow it is obviously OUAT, and the thing they are arguing is one of the million versions of PP that Toby made in 2010-2011. also doctor from even earlier has it too! but its hard to isolate since that song has a lot more going on lol

[@greenberrygk]

I think you didn’t transcribe finale correctly

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

Honestly, I listen it lol

[@sahilhossain8204]

Lore of Undertale & Deltarune - All possible songs with "Penumbra Phantasm" momentum 100

[@denofcuriousmeltherat8378]

And unused rk's ost?

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

@@denofcuriousmeltherat8378 I didn't know that one. I only published one version with the main ones, I know there are more like ybnightmare but they could be coincidences, anyway, do you have information about that as well?

[@leiocerayt]

What is "Penumbra Phantasm", exactly?

[@TheDeltaruneTheorists]

@@leiocerayt check description

[@leiocerayt]

@@TheDeltaruneTheorists oki thx