Undertale's silly 'Canon' Vs Fanon war

This whole thing is silly as hell,lol. subscribe ig.
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Intro; / he_remembers
Chara section; / cooking-with-a-killer-... (I couldn't find anything more fitting lol.)
Frisk section: / greed
soundcloud.com...
Animations:
• sans.
• a beautiful day - UNDE...
• ☆CLOSE TO YOU Undertal...
"That little sh#&" artwork from SmallBlueSlime
0: 24 Art on the left by Ilovemlp39/Ellie
images.app.goo...
#undertale #sans #sansandpapyrus #fanon #sansfangirl

[@Military_base01]

2:13 By the way,I don't think he would just swear out of anger,insulting the human or something like that, that's really out of character I think he'd be confused and really angry,something similar to Stronger than You Sans's reaction to Papyrus's death minus the flaming eye part, letting out a nervous laughter

[@tahutoa]

(with pauses where you imagine) * ...heh. heh. * what the hell? * ... * man. this really isn't funny. * ...heh. man. * ... * man.

[@Jpeg_28]

Im sorry please put spaces after commas whenever I read your text it feels like I'm getting a lobotomy

[@toatallyasnowpea]

* ...... * that kid......... ..... *hehehe..... *They will regret what they done.*

[@RNGMecha]

@@toatallyasnowpea This one is probably the best. Remember Sans doesn't remember resets the Genocide route was probably made for people who went "...So... What now... =)" or players who were feeling like destroying something when they first played.

[@fruitloops2058]

I unironically think the idea Sans doesn't care about Papyrus' death is worse than him being too outwardly emotional about it. One doesn't understand how Sans acts, the other doesn't understand Sans at all

[@GordanTheToad]

I saw someone once say something along the lines of "Hot take: I'd be sad too if my brother was murdered."

[@XXIL0V3MUZICXX]

well i mean i dunno if this is canon or not but sans (allegedly) is aware of resets so if thats true then er,, yeeaaaa

[@aaaaaaaaaaaaa-b6w]

@@XXIL0V3MUZICXX wrong He knows resets exist but not how many have happened as his memory is wiped He only knows stuff like how many times you did his boss because he's just really good at reading facial expressions and body language

[@thealientree3821]

Sans is definitely emotional over Papyrus’s death… It doesn’t matter if he is the only one killed or is one of hundreds, he will specifically call you out for killing Papyrus. And he also outright disappears when Papyrus dies.

[@Semori_gaming]

@@thealientree3821he doesn’t cry but his just pissed.

[@extremempsilvamps5851]

I think the most realistic portray of Sans reacting to Papyrus death is, ironically, the stronger than you animation He is not sad, not emotionless, he is pissed and full of rage

[@fruitloops2058]

The Stronger Than You animation despite all odds has pretty aged well. The fight depicted is believable with the games presentation of how Frisk and Sans move, Sans is in character, Frisk is actually Frisk, Sans' voice is fitting and the music kinda slaps. Nice change.

[@randomperson8102]

True, i don't think Sans laughted in anger tho, but i do think he was angry

[@pancakes8670]

I was about to comment this. I also think it's the closest glimpse at Sans reacting to his brothers death. It's in line with the Neutral Ending where the only character you kill is Papyrus, where Sans reacts with hostility and anger in the phone call.

[@Bartender22]

@@randomperson8102in undertale laughing is always seen as a sign of grief or despair like in one of the Asriel and chara interactions when they poison asgore or when toriel laughs at her foolishness to not realize you are a monster when you kill her in the geno route

[@red_darkstorm098]

He would be shocked at first, then be internally sad that it happened, but he would mainly do an akward laugh and his eye would glow blue because he’s pissed off

[@Yuti640]

I think what the Sans animation was going for is more of a subdued reaction, where he feels a lot on the inside but sort of just is on the outside, his movements a bit more sluggish than usual

[@Theshmorple]

EXACTLY, i hate when people portray sans as some emotionless guy

[@sebastiandelosreyes1146]

Fr think they didn’t saw it like that.

[@mariuszwojtylak9860]

I was gonna write a coment about how the animation was still good because of his inner saddnes despite his smilling outside. But you put it correctly. But hey its not at least as bad as 2016 version so thats good.

[@LunarBiohazard321]

Additionally, I think the shift in color scheme to white and purple, 2:09 , was MEANT to show his inner confusion and possible anger.

[@motivated2473]

​@@Theshmorple Yeah, Sans is a really emphatic yet composed person, if a bit nihilistic. The animation 'sans' portrayed that perfectly, he isn't emotionless in the slightest, he's just silently grieving but accepting of the situation, he even shows his empty eyesockets showing he was pissed off as well, just like based guy said he thought Sans would react xd

[@davidholanda1]

the "that little shit" meme is possibly the most accurate "canon Sans" I've seen out of all of them

[@Edderson_Studios4329]

True.

[@user-ls8pe6pq5r]

That's out of character

[@jonnetikka5238]

​@@user-ls8pe6pq5rIt really is not

[@ANT1_01]

​@@jonnetikka5238 it is bro sans just knows the reset is gonna happen sometime and his brother is coming back.

[@wildfire9280]

@@ANT1_01 He just has a supernatural vibe check.

[@Ryann9]

Most of Undertale's mischaracterization is essentially just, "Well they're not [Extreme Personality traits] so they must be [Extreme opposite of those traits]!"

[@redactedinfo8557]

it's amazing how as time has gone on people have lost the ability to look for shades of grey... even though the moral of Undertale IS to look for the shades of grey. when Undertale Yellow came out everyone pinned black and white morality on all its routes, where people were apparently saying that mass murder is perfectly fine, being upset that your family members were killed is irrational, and that if you did one bad thing you regret you deserve the absolute worst punishment out there and don't deserve forgiveness and this extends beyond Undertale and to the rest of the world. my goodness are people quick to take the extremist sides in every single situation. every situation is either completely good or completely bad. you are either with someone or you are against them. no inbetween. this might be a real hot take but I kind of hate how undertale's geno route has basically overtaken the fandom at this point and overshadowed all of the other routes because honestly? in this day and age the pacifist route has the more important moral.

[@freshbroski8547]

Did people seriously misinterpret that entire J-Bug thing? It clearly shows him experience grief and loss over the death but not everything is black and white. it depicts sans experiencing the loss differently to what people would expect but just because someone isn’t on their knees sobbing doesn’t mean they weren’t effected. Some people go numb and try to process what happened. It’s actually more in line with sans’s character to feel a deep sense of helplessness because he’s got a background with science so as we’ve seen he’s familiar with the timeline disturbance and he knows what’s going on with everything. He knows it’s all going to reset so he feels so, empty inside because he knows his brother and everyone he loves is dead or will likely die and he just can’t muster up the energy to do anything about it until it’s absolutely necessary. We see in some neutral runs how he says something along the lines of “Then why did you kill my brother?” Since frisk spared everyone but papyrus. Or calls them a dirty brother killer. Sans IS ANGRY he just shows it differently. Sans has always been a character that depicts mental illness in a very realistic way that isn’t shown often. Not every person with a mental illness cries and whines constantly, it’s actually incredibly common for people to mask their emotions or play bird (pretending to be okay as a self defense mechanism) when they’re struggling. We have plenty of evidence in game that shows that sans doesn’t have much hope at all, he’s given up he says that. He isn’t just lazy it’s more complicated than that, if I was able to bring sources into this I would reference lines of dialogue that contradicts the notion that he’s simply just lazy. Sans loves jokes and pranks and puns and acts apathetic a lot of the time but there’s a greyscale to it. He isn’t all comedy, and he isn’t all depressed. He’s a mixture, a complex character that’s diversity caused such a massive fandom.

[@SansAnims]

Holy yap sesh but i agree

[@thumtak_]

​@@SansAnimstrue canon sans

[@TotallyNotFanatic25]

"just give up like i did." - the sans's lost soul phrase from asriel dreemurr battle segment

[@jujuoof174]

YES YOU NAILED IT

[@coolguydoesstuff7876]

​@@SansAnims I can't believe sans himself agreed

[@Kitsunereborns]

In old Fanon! Sans is identified with his "bad time eye" In new Fanon/"Canon" Sans identified with his normal face, while in real canon is just sans without his eyes. I like how real one is looks like middle point of the three lol. He is not emotinal as old fanon but still feels something instead of soulles "Canon" one.

[@Virtual_Garbage]

I'm glad we using eyeless sans more, he sure does look more threatening and ominous than "bad time eye", just like sans

[@Komo1680]

​@@Virtual_GarbageEyeless Sans is the least popular/used of the three and it just make things even more funnier if you think about it like representing canon lol

[@Oleja2008]

​@@Virtual_Garbagei think they just don't use black eyes much because of how difficult it would be to make Sans' expressions. Not like normal white eyes are bad and odd either.

[@iamthemouse4483]

"Canon" Sans is more like Ink than Sans

[@Primodo14]

I like how EVERY canon vs fanon debate in the community is the two opposite concepts while the true canon is the middle, aside from being funny, just shows how Toby is a genius in creating characters

[@Ammiteur9]

Is it just me, or does anybody else have the feeling that people forgot that "you dirty brother Killer" and "Then why did you kill my brother" are canon lines Sans says when you kill Papyrus? He says them in game. I should know because I got them the first time I attempted a no mercy run.

[@Oleja2008]

Lmao i just knew of them quite recently You monster

[@Dragon_Aoi]

People literally try to act like the ‘dirty brother killer" line is fanon. I literally saw a post that had the Sans “fanon” reaction to Paps’ death use that line. Despite being you know, a line up can get when u kill Pais from Sans. It is strange. But yeah, people really don’t seem to realize nowadays that those lines u mentioned are literally canon lines Sans can say when you kill his brother.

[@hiddenflare6169]

Sorry for making an excuse, but to be fair you do need to find that line. Like I am pretty sure that doesn't pop up if you kill everyone, but spare 1. No that line kinda pops up if you spare everyone BUT PAPYRUS. Kinda shows why Sans is upset about it, as if he considers it personal... But still tries to be fair and leaves it at that.

[@0ikess]

@@hiddenflare6169 pretty sure it pops up as long as you've killed papyrus in neutral route

[@redactedinfo8557]

​@@hiddenflare6169no, it does pop up as long as you killed Papyrus. doesn't matter if you killed or spared everyone else

[@nameman9997]

People take the Asriel line out of context. His “not the greatest person” line was him finally taking Chara off of the pedestal. He was utterly obsessed with Chara, and convinced that they could do no wrong. It isn’t until he’s saved that he can finally recognize that Chara wasn’t perfect. He says himself, ever since he was reborn as Flowey he blamed himself for his and Chara’s deaths, and this is him finally accepting that Chara was human. But people take it out of context to say “Ohhhhhh Chara was evil and abusive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!1” (They did manipulate Asriel into carrying out the buttercup plan, but they probably just thought that the manipulation was needed considering how generally innocent Asriel is.)

[@chickenwings7116]

THANK YOU ‼️‼️

[@svkyra20100]

Even in the end of the game Asriel was standing in front of the chara's grave. This means he still care about them. Asriel line about "you're the type of friend I wish I always had" doesn't mean he hates/dislike Chara he just thinks frisk is better than them

[@thirdwheel9938]

Chara is so interesting cause you will never have a full understanding of the character due to the game's handling of the character Even when we play those cassettes in the true lab, we don't get to see or hear from them directly, we only get to read asriel's reaction to their plan. The only time we get to hear from them directly is during genocide and I think it's important how the route that brings out the best in every monster to try survive you, only brings out the worst in "chara" which is just a placeholder name, short for "character" since we only know there's a "character" who was the first fallen human, but we barely know anything about "Chara" Here's everything I know about them, feel free to add if I missed anything: We only know Chara hated people, liked chocolate, ate those buttercups to die & try to get those human souls to break the barrier and ultimately got them both killed, we know they liked to make scary faces and had a relatively normal life with the dreemurrs, owned a friendship locket and a knifew, liked "efficiency" and had this weird obsession with the number 9 and maximization in general We know Chara taints all "True Pacifist" runs after a full geno run and that they think we're "perverted" if we try a no mercy run more than once and is genuinely confused by our behavior since no one in undertale can comprehend what a players motivation might be, only flowey comes close (but even then, he's not an outsider like we are) There's evidence they might be the narrator, it's a theory but at least we do know Chara narrates some of the geno text boxes (I do believe they're the narrator, remember that "still you frisk" flavor text you get after on the mirror during the epilogue? Yeah who else would say that..) I'd say that's it tbh, Chara is very interesting to analize because we don't have a lot to go off of, interpretations on the "character" are more like scientific theories due to the nature of the character, it's really fun to see other's takes on them as long as it's not just "Chara is evil" or "Chara did nothing wrong" I don't know how much of what i like about chara is canon or wrong guesses but I like it that way. I feel like we know enough to have an opinion on Chara, but never enough to have any concrete characterization

[@Karo-AUTTP-UTTD]

@@thirdwheel9938 I completely agree with you

[@palekingnr-tia2653]

​@@thirdwheel9938 Мне нравится теория о том, что Чара рассказчик, потому что голос, описывающий всё в игре, шутит над кроватью Чары как-то типо "На ней удобно умереть!", то же самое с гробом внизу, так что да, я тоже считаю, что описания принадлежат первому ребёнку

[@Primodo14]

The canon vs fanon war always annoyed me because sometimes people just have their own interpretation of a character and everyone hate them for it

[@YandereJasfodacii]

I don't like this stupid canon vs fanon war too, this war between fanon and Canon is as stupid as the console wars.

[@kingsuperbobboy]

Dont forget then enters the fanon fanon vs canon fanon war which will have people arguing over 5 different interpretations of the same exact character done by completely different people

[@Primodo14]

@@kingsuperbobboy Exactly! Like, I get that Sans is a complex character, but sometimes people are just dumb

[@techleontius9161]

I'm pretty sure "canon vs fanon" war is actually "fanon vs someone else's fanon", since everyone has their own perception of characters and opinions on them.

[@wariowahwah580]

I think based on how I’ve seen some fangames develop, the fandom just outright HATES the idea of being morally grey, which is something that extends into real life as well. Whoever and whatever they have a personal attachment to has to feel impossible to disagree with/dislike, while anyone and anything they don’t like has to be objectively the worst thing ever. Everyone got bullied for thinking anyone in the game was extensively deep through hyperfixations and roleplay, so now everyone has to overcorrect to be like “See guys we’re not projecting ourselves onto them or making them way cooler, we totally understand the game this time!”

[@hiddenflare6169]

You may have something, focusing on Chara for this, it could be people put them in a box because 'it's easier' or 'I just hate seeing them purely being good/evil'. For things like stories, art, and even rps it likely isn't easy to figure out how to handle a morally gray character like Chara. Like it would get annoying if Chara just kept switching sides because "isn't that what a morally grey character does?" because its hard to say what they would do. Its probably best to think of good examples and try to help people picture how their Chara can be... But yeah, basically just gotta figure out how to do Morally Grey a bit better.

[@greenytoaster]

The worst thing is that this mindset from fans also starts reflecting onto real life. I'm a person who doesn't show emotions a lot, and I've been backstabbed and thrown in the trash by a handful of my friends (who are diehard Undertale fans) for "being annoying"...

[@gavinarad2288]

This is why Undertale yellow is peak. Spoilers for pacifist (kinda) ending ahead: The choice to kill Ceroba is an example of the moral greyness. On one hand, you have Starlo who defends her and how she was grieving. On the other hand, you have Martlet stating how Clover was legally justified.

[@quagiscool]

I feel like a more realistic depiction of Sans reacting to his brother's death would be more of a single tear thing. He knew what the human was doing, he knew that it would happen, well for genocide at least. For neutral runs, it's a completely different story though, and ones where they don't kill a lot of people before killing Papyrus, I feel like those are the ones where he gets more emotional, due to it being unexpected.

[@Colddirector]

I just don't see him actually getting sad over Papyrus' death. It's probably going to be undone by a reset anyway, so why bother? I see him as more being pissed off you did that than sad that he's gone.

[@drysoup3017]

​@@ColddirectorI'd say a mix. While he knows that it will all be reset anyways, the thought of being helpless to stop the human should make him a little sad and angered. After all, if they've killed Papyrus this time, how many other times have they? How many times would Sans have to watch, helpless to do anything to stop them, y'know? And I agree with the neutral run concept, especially if it's only Papyrus that's killed. That just goes to show that you're just fucking with Sans, and his universe.

[@Andromeda-lo6lf]

​@@Colddirector i mean he still had to witness the whole thing, having a grasp on what's actually happening doesn't make it any less traumatic specially if you only kill his brother, during geno you end up affirming what he *suspected,* but couldn't fully confirm, about resetting and knew he had to do something unlike here where you just kill his brother for no reason, there's no outcome in this situation where he doesn't end up a mess off screen

[@JamesDavis-yn8xp]

@@Colddirector He woudl deffnitly be somewhat sad especcialy if u did a genocide run first before any resets.

[@skell6134]

​@@ColddirectorMeanwhile literally neutral route judgement with dead papyrus: *You dirty brother killer

[@PrototypesParentReal3]

i saw a picture of a “ canon vs fanon sans “ but it was actually just two pictures of sans, one with a fan on his head and the other with a can on his head. i now take that as the only exception for “ canon vs fanon “ 🧀

[@nitroblaze6696]

This is the best thing I've seen today

[@dibs6462]

Verrrryyyy cleverrr

[@Helentar]

The canon sans seems better, a fan might not work on a head

[@Gangster_Mario]

​@@dibs6462VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRY

[@skull-knight-420]

​@@Helentar seems to work on a hat tho

[@PoyoPowerPlant]

People just have to realize that there can be a middle ground between "I CARE SO MUCH" and "I don't care at all." Sans isn't a one-dimensional character, so let's not hold him to extremes.

[@basethecharcoal]

Papyrus dies Fanon Sans: 😭😭😭 New Fanon Sans: lmao ok Canon Sans: ... *Go to hell*

[@Finalslashes]

Most likely sans: no…. But.. I can’t do anything about it..

[@rigboy1234]

"Grrr I'm shitting myself but they'll just reset If I do anything"

[@phanoxd]

ACTUAL canon sans: ... er.

[@cart_lol]

​@@phanoxdi don't think bro watched the video

[@phanoxd]

@@cart_lol thats the joke lol

[@se.224]

I think the best way to sum up how sans is portrayed by the community is mistaking not showing emotion for apathy Just because sans doesn’t break down crying every time you kill papyrus doesn’t mean he isn’t distraught at the sight of his death. It’s kinda hilarious how the entire point of sans as a character is subtly and he’s the most flanderized character of the entire fandom.

[@GordanTheToad]

If you were to get 40 different Undertale fans in a room together and asked each one to write down who someone like Chara was, you would get 40 different Charas.

[@JorguinTorpedo-ff5vk]

Chara is possibly the best kept secret in Undertale since probably only Toby Fox knows what her personality and way of acting are like🤷

[@FishwicksREAL]

only toby Fox knows if Chara is even a woman.

[@JorguinTorpedo-ff5vk]

@@FishwicksREAL Lets be Real boys, Frisk and Chara are the true Gender Neutral, It's because of this that Omega Flowey Lost

[@Pherri]

And definitely a lot of fights

[@TwilightFlower9]

@@FishwicksREAL literally every piece of official media where someone talks about Chara uses they/them exclusively. while it's still technically not known (since pronouns aren't gender), it's unlikely.

[@dynamitoriel9056]

Ngl, despite how stupid this whole Fanon vs Fanon is, it also funny how it happened in the first place, it basically "My oc vs My oc" and "Trash vs Garbage" moment, i don't mind seeing more of these arguement for the sake of laugh

[@nikoskonstantinidis4069]

2 cavemen tried to act smart it failed, while the whole audience laughing at them

[@tanner201x8]

Sans crying is better than new emotionless sans and I will die on that hill

[@Military_base01]

How canon murdered fanon and stole its skin

[@EnzoGranzotto]

5:06 Once again Flowey's mental health was HORRIBLE,and Determination never was said to break the 4th wall

[@twohundredcats]

"Do YOU like the way your skin feels on your body? You don't...? Why don't you take it off?"

[@shoebill4902]

Why would canon do that

[@7Dexcent]

@@twohundredcats This is what Frisk is saying when you click the *Flirt* button

[@WuhHuh]

just like the mii gunner skin

[@theeternalsuperstar3773]

Ironically, "Fannon Sans" is in some ways now more accurate than "Neo-Cannon" Sans.

[@skell6134]

Wouldnt really agree that much but ok

[@djmewtwo6981]

@@skell6134Fanon sans is more how sans would react if he didn’t knew the concept of reset existed, and at least he cares deeply for his brother.

[@JamesDavis-yn8xp]

@@skell6134 Bro nhe is 100 percent right i qwould rather super sad sans over his brother than hahha ketchup go brr which is notihng like sanses cahrecter.

[@gamercentral2417]

@@JamesDavis-yn8xpreal.

[@skell6134]

@@JamesDavis-yn8xp Except new fanon sans aint like that and video just overexaggerated that concept . -.

[@quagiscool]

Chara 100% was not a good person, as you already said. But they do have morals. One of my favourite lines of dialogue in Undertale is if you do genocide 3 times I think, and they says "There is a reason you continue to destroy it. You are wracked with a perverted." This obviously shows they don't like what we're doing.

[@lunaitor-uq9hz]

Chara just like “why the fuck would you do this AGAIN??”

[@Colddirector]

I don't see Chara as having a moral problem with what you're doing, more that they're wierded out by it. To destroy the enemy to become strong is something they can understand, but to destroy the enemy because you like spending time with them, they can't. If they truly had a problem with what you're doing, I think they wouldn't recreate the world you insist on destroying.

[@flameofvictory4305]

I just see it as they see what you’ve done as pointless, as you already know the outcome, you’ve already done it, so there’s no reason to do it

[@giuliogalante5733]

Should you choose to erase this world once more. Then perhaps I suggest a better path is taken.

[@potatofarmer9488]

@@Colddirector they have to recreate the world, you made a deal.

[@Solesteam]

*Fannon Sans:* You kil mey bro now i keel u *Fanon Sans:* lol, paps ded. *Canon Sans:* _dissapears for the rest of the game till the final corridor._

[@BanzaiJimbo]

Nah, actually Canon Sans when you kill Papyrus: *A hooded figure watches from the distance.*

[@Solesteam]

@BanzaiJimbo Unlike Flowey that isn't really implied anywhere, he just dips, probably to mourn in silence or distract himself from ever having to confront the reality of the situation.

[@BanzaiJimbo]

@@Solesteam No, that text actually appears during a battle in Waterfall, and that can only happen if you at least kill Papyrus.

[@Solesteam]

@@BanzaiJimbo What battle in specific? And what room?

[@BanzaiJimbo]

@@Solesteam kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKjCp6mQbayBoa8si=WxV4jTWHOAtnXC_q

[@Colddirector]

I don't see the Chara you see at the end of Genocide as the same being you see in the flashbacks. I see them as kind of like Flowey - a reborn entity who is molded by your actions throughout the game. They have Chara's memories and their personality, but lack most of their emotions or morals. It is up to you what lesson they take from this world.

[@DuoVersal]

I would compare Chara in genocide more to Noelle in Snowgrave Both were molded to become stronger and more (pun not intended) cold by your actions through a vessel (Kris and Frisk)

[@asdffdas254]

@@DuoVersal Chara actively eggs the player on though, providing instructions and encouragement. Examples: "That Comedian..." "The comedian got away. Failure." "Strongly felt X left. Shouldn't proceed yet." "Forgettable." "Looks like free EXP." Last but not least: "Since when were you the one in control?" Notably, they consistently push the player to keep going, especially in moments where the player is likely to be reconsidering their actions or thinking about giving up. Additionally the recent anniversary letter regarding their interest in the number 9 makes their motivation easy to understand: their plan from the beginning of the genocide route is to gain enough power that no one can control them or hurt them anymore, by any means necessary.

[@DuoVersal]

@@asdffdas254 Notably, they don’t really egg you on when you haven’t already started doing a genocide route. The only one I’ve noticed is there when not doing Genocide is “Forgettable,” which (in the world of Undertale, not our world obviously) is a state of fact. People don’t really view Papyrus positively, if at all, the only ones that do are the main cast IIRC (and especially sans of course). And what the newsletter did confirm about Chara is WHY they are the feeling that you get when a number increases. “Since when were you the in control” doesn’t really seem all that true, even at the end of genocide (other than erase the world or do not ofc)! When you encounter Flowey, killing them isn’t automatic. You have to do it yourself, because Asriel is their brother, it’s your last chance to go back. You are still in control until Chara confronts you head on.

[@potatofarmer9488]

@@asdffdas254 You did kill toriel, which would probably make chara care(a) less about random monsters

[@wildfire9280]

It’s telling that they’re like that in only a fraction of the time it would have taken Flowey though.

[@Toprak135]

The internet is completely clueless to the fact the allignment chart has 9 slots and not 2. 💀

[@Edderson_Studios4329]

And that personally isn't just a one liner lol.

[@g-ray7121]

Alex Hexagon reference??

[@Edderson_Studios4329]

@@g-ray7121 Who knows?

[@JustYourOrdinaryFriend]

Fanon Sans: YOU KILLED PAPYRUS NOW I HAVE 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 ATK AND 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 DF! 'Canon' Sans: Ketchup goes brrrrrr Actual Canon Sans: Lazy, often sleeping on the job and taking breaks. His laziness is a combination of fatalism and apathy, as he is aware of timeline resets. He enjoys being mischievous. Sans primarily acts this way towards those he is in good terms with. His antics range from an assortment of illogical, juvenile, and slightly inconvenient pranks. Examples include Sans "selling fried snow," using whoopee cushions, sharing an unscrewed ketchup bottle, and eye paint on a telescope. He is not above utilizing his teleportation or other magic for practical jokes either. Sans is also fond of making the occasional low-brow puns. He enjoys making others laugh in general, as he also performs at the MTT Resort as a comedian. Despite Sans being apathetic towards his own life, he is considerate to those he cares for. For example, Sans is a regular at Grillby's, and the monsters and Royal Guard dogs treat him kindly. Sans has informed Big Mouth about "all kinds of incredible foods," yet Big Mouth comments that "he always orders the worst burger off the menu." Although Sans hates making promises, he respects Toriel's request to watch out for any humans. Even if the protagonist killed people that were close to him, Sans refrains from broaching the topic until the Last Corridor. In a Neutral Route ending where Papyrus or Toriel is alive, Sans omits the protagonist's slaughter to either of them. He is also observant; Sans reads the protagonist's expressions and can often tell when they have already done certain tasks, as when SAVING and reloading. Though Sans is usually agreeable, he can become eerily serious to emphasize a subject. Regardless of the human being partially or wholly merciful, Sans tells them that if "the old lady" (confirmed in the True Pacifist Route to be Toriel) had not made him promise to protect them, "(they'd) be dead where (they) stand." During the Genocide Route, he does everything in his power to kill the protagonist, even faking mercy. Sans may have a scientific background. Evidence includes the quantum physics book, his workshop, affinity for science, his inexplicable ability to teleport and his timeline research. But thats still a mystery, maybe He just working on past college project or something Sans has implied he once longed and searched for a life that he cannot go back to as he "gave up trying to go back a long time ago". As a Lost Soul, he tells the protagonist that "you'll never see 'em again." Although what Sans is trying to return to is vague. Also if you wondering how sans feel after papyrus's death, just fucking imagine how you react if a kid kill your only family member.

[@Lucas.pcport85]

Is that just the fandom wiki description for sans?

[@qua_xor3348]

Bro literally copy and pasted the wiki description for sans 💀

[@End_Productions]

@@qua_xor3348 It's still more accurate than the memes!!!

[@StarBee2]

Was about to say this was a great small lil' analysis but the other comments made me aware this is just copy pasted from the wiki. I am disappointed this somehow got so many likes.

[@JustYourOrdinaryFriend]

@@StarBee2 :3

[@garlikbred6474]

I feel bad for Toby Fox. Imagine having to watch your characters get misinterpreted in every single way possible.

[@Emuotori_fr]

The worst thing is to imagine that after 9 years your fanbase smh still doesn't understand them

[@oranjaglad8648]

Touhou Project: First time?

[@undividual3891]

Literally, like how is it even possible to misrepresent a reaction thats IN THE GAME

[@filbusdoesnotexist]

It's the price to pay when your product has an appeal to preteens. If he's mature and levelheaded enough, he'll just be happy with all his cash and the fact people appreciate his art.

[@monkegaming5091]

"wow you guys think sans would react that much to his brother death" if you kill papyrus outiside genocide no matter what level you are sans will judge you only for killing his brother he doesnt care if you are nearly soulless or nicest guy ever if papyrus is dead thats the only neutral judgement available for you

[@clementchuah6706]

gotta admit, its impressive toby managed to make a funni skeleton that literally spawn an iceberg of AUs among those inside or outside the community with the intentional character design of him telling bad jokes alongside a hidden lore being he can break the fourth wall and the game tracks how many times you reset or die to certain enemies

[@MinorLife10]

On behalf of whole Chara defense squad, I feel obliged to apologize. Even being a part of it, I admit that many of our fellas don't get anything. Chara was not a devil, but neither they were a saint. Just a regular flawed person, like every other character in this game, capable of being bad to people. People have a hard time comprehending the duality of everyone having good and evil inside.

[@A_Krix]

Are we fr called the "chara defense squad" now 😭 not complaining but it does sound silly

[@MinorLife10]

@@A_KrixI mean, that's what we are called by others anyway and I have never seen any other name, at all. So coming up with a better one would be nice!

[@qua_xor3348]

The new newsletter actually gave a bit more info to Chara's character. They're quite obsessed with getting more power although its because they wants to be strong enough to protect the ones she loves. And even wanted Asriel to absorb their soul in order for him to kill everyone in the surface for power but he didnt.

[@ilikepotatos5891]

DuDe ItS tHeY wHaT tHe FuCk DuDe HoW dEaR yOu! 1!1!1!1!!

[@InduKumari-qm7ny]

It's weird how this canon vs fanon debate just randomly picked up speed even though these fanon versions of characters have existed since the early days of the fandom

[@oranjaglad8648]

Probably because people look back at what used to be the norm.

[@krimptheshrimp]

The J-Bug animation is more about showing Sans's Nihilism. He is obviously distraught about his brothers death, "For once, I can't think of anything to say" and "I felt a familiar smile grace my shoulders" are both lines that he very much cares, and is in pain due to his brother dying, but because of his understanding of resets, not memories or anything like that, he knows that it isn't worth it to do anything, but just like in his fight, he shows that he wished the anomaly would've spared Papyrus and became friends. I personally think the video does a wonderful job depicting how a nihilist that can't fully commit to nihilism would react to the deaths around him, the color changing to black as he looks at Papyrus's bod symbolizing with this as well.

[@End_Productions]

I love how 90% of this video is literally just saying "there's a middle ground" and "Frisk is a character" ... Like almost everything we have today is a over correction of what we had then

[@StarwayBunny]

Exactly. In trying to defend Chara we scapegoated Frisk. Which was just the opposite problem as before. And turned Sans into a douche who doesn't even care when his brother dies.

[@AceSpadespoken]

​@@StarwayBunny Yeah, with the whole geno scapegoat thing it oddly feels like us (players) trying to take the blame for actions like Genocide away from ourselves? The root problem of the route was never Frisk nor Chara; it was *our* choice.

[@StarwayBunny]

@@AceSpadespoken Forget the Chara defense squad we need a Frisk defense squad. I'd argue they're nicer then Chara from what we know. (Not saying either of them are ALL good or ALL bad though.)

[@hiddenflare6169]

Hmmm so the solution is to ship Frisk and Chara, got it. 'Insert groans of annoyance and angry here.' There was also the little fact, that is added, that part of the fandom sees the two as Little Girls......... Fair if you ask me, though a good portion today is leaning on the Non-binary option. I still prefer the "Pick what you want and be nice to others about what they prefer too" option that for some reason gets hate.

[@Deflamed_Sphere]

@@StarwayBunny like they can't accept the consequences of their actions so they must put it on someone

[@Carbe-apreciador_de_café]

Now let's talk about The fanon based_guy and Canon based_guy

[@Military_base01]

Fanon: hates dusttale and every single fan creation 'Canon': loves Dusttale and every single fan creation

[@Colddirector]

​@@Military_base01 2024 'Canon': What the hell is an "Undertale"?

[@HollowMaskYT]

@@Military_base01 Man, Im the opossite, I hate Dusttale and every single version of that AU lol

[@zetaright]

The actual canon : "wow, misinformation fanonication, let me fix that." "wow, emo sans au blah blah blah, it doesnt even have any depth story, let me review this"

[@Clorisk]

​@@Military_base01I dislike dusttale as "what if" Au but if we remove that "what if" it is ok au.

[@thecoolestrb]

How canon turned into AUG!HORRORINSANITY 2025 footage peakness aus peak

[@Military_base01]

how AUG horrorinsanity changed the undertale community forever

[@verybigman2270]

How AUG!HORRORINSANITY did a sick flip

[@The-Core-of-Time-and-Space]

How AUG!HORRORINSANITY 2025 fans react when M16?FEARLESSSANITY 1113 fans walk in

[@TheCosmicNapper]

​@@The-Core-of-Time-and-Spacereal11!1

[@Thelaserman20]

…. What the hell is happening here

[@Pobre_Emilio]

I recently watched the Stronger Than You animation again, and joking aside, I think that his interpretation of Sans is much more accurate than the current one that the fandom has, I wouldn't say it's the correct interpretation because only Toby's is, but I still think it's a good one.

[@Military_base01]

I like stronger than you Sans,probably my favourite classic variation of Sans. His reaction to Papyrus's death is accurate to me (minus the flaming blue eye)

[@ForgottenTimelinesSans]

absolute peak video like always although it confuses me how people can assume character traits that are completely opposed to the canon personality, I get it in a way anyways, good job covering the canons, great video :DD

[@dynamitoriel9056]

Personal i think Alphys definitely derseved more in depth analysis, considering how torn Fandom is between Alphys and how it basically all out war right now, i even argue it was as big as "Fanon Sans vs Fanon Sans"

[@FlocreeperIsBytin]

plus alphys is NOT LESBIAN SHE'S BI WITH A PREFERENCE TOWARDS WOMEN SHE HAS/HAD A MILD CRUSH ON ASGORE IN THE GAME

[@gamercentral2417]

@@FlocreeperIsBytinwe GET IT. ITS BEEN SAID EVERYWHERE. I swear this is exactly like this vid. New fans try to disprove 2016 fans without realizing that everyone already knows.

[@gamercentral2417]

Oh yeah btw the fandom isn’t torn with alphys, they’re torn between her actions. Her personality and character is obvious

[@Dragon_Aoi]

Yeah, the stuff going on with Alphys in fandom is a bit different than the fanon/“canon” Sans war stuff and etc.

[@A_Krix]

​@@FlocreeperIsBytinSomeone said this was said a million times but I haven't heard this before so can u pls tell me where Alphys has shown to have a mild crush on Asgore

[@Pixie64.]

I saw an animation recently, (a brotherly funeral, i think it was called) which, in my opinion, is a very good representation of Sans at the death of his brother, where he seems to try to take it easy to cope with the sadness, but pretty much failing in some more dark moments, IT ALSO INCLUDES THE CONCEPT OF MONSTER FUNERALS, something I've almost never seen addressed in any undertale animation, and you can also see the death of Sans, wich, imo, It's very well represented, asking Papyrus if he knows what his favorite thing is before dying Anyway, yada yada, you don't have to read this if you don't feel like it, but I felt like mentioning it

[@Sparkmaster9]

I like to read this ᗜˬᗜ

[@Pixie64.]

@@Sparkmaster9 Ty, I spent my time writing this thing lmao

[@Nillo_E]

2:16 you know what? The second images of sans saying "that little shit." Is my new headcanon now

[@BabanDlh]

People just misunderstood J-Bug's animation

[@Military_base01]

yeah,I liked it but it got transformed into: Sans does not care too much

[@Emuotori_fr]

just like they misunderstood undertale undertale fans having understanding of what they see challenge: impossible

[@BabanDlh]

@@Emuotori_fr Real, everything you need is in game and still people are misunderstanding most of it

[@skell6134]

​@@Military_base01Welp, there is Jbug animation and also Brotherly funeral mini comic now, both pretty much depicting Sans's attitude over Papyrus's death quite accurately

[@Deflamed_Sphere]

i can not believed it to say the least but alas here we are

[@anothergenericyoutuber7586]

Honestly, it's crazy how the fandom has done a full circle since 2019. Personally, I never saw the issue with mixing SOME factors of a "non canon idea" into stories (especially aus where canon information is all over the place or just missing). Honestly, though, I feel like inverted fate has done a great job at portraying all the canons to characters in undertale. Not going on any extreme fandom 2016, or the current 2024 ideas of the characters and making them feel like they're still part of undertale.

[@keithflippers4429]

About Fanon Chara, it really reflects how the Undertale fanbase expects you (the player) to play the game In the sense that you go true pacifists or geno that you can only care about those two routes That a player doing the TP route is a loving, innocent person that has every good trait Or a player that does geno is vile, sick and dosent care about anything and has every bad trait Maybe this is more or less the OLD Undertale fandom but i think this was worth mentioning atleast

[@johay899]

The betrayal of neutral Chara it’s kind of undiscussed. It’s also the only route in which Chara isn’t addressed in game I would argue that unlike the other two routes a clear decision on philosophy isn’t reached therefore there is no manifestation Neutral seniors definitely not the last route. Most players are going to do.

[@keithflippers4429]

@johay899 It's a shame the neutral dosent get much attention as that would likely be the first route a first time player would get playing blind

[@icenovice]

sans: * leaves for 5 seconds * * finds the whole town dead upon getting back * sans: welp time to get out the ice cream cone

[@redhotdanger2394]

"if i get mixed up with what's fanon and what's cannon, who knows what. could. happen..." -Kane probably.

[@shortyPlayzYT]

whats goated about papyrus is that even though he may fear you, he does stand up to you and tries to get in your way to change you, sadly it risks him dying while he still believes in you

[@RedDead7808]

"Funny how it took *9* years for someone to finally get (Undertale characters Canon vs Fanon) right"

[@mondaindoodles8667]

As someone who is a Sonic fan, these kinds of debates about fanon vs canon arguments are nothing new to me but are still interesting to see. I feel like you, @/Dorked and couple others actually understand Undertale from the characters to the message/theme of the games story, etc you and those other few peps as well as Dorked are doing a great service to the fanbase of clearing up MANY misconceptions. Can't wait to see more from you. Good luck to you in life.

[@oranjaglad8648]

Don’t even get me started on how the Sonic fandom throws a shitfit for any way a character is portrayed. Or how they hypocritically judge characters for reasons that are more the writers’ faults.

[@slimyslimer2642]

Hello! Creator of the Sans saying 'that little shit.' here. (aka SmallBlueSlime on the Undertale subreddit) I'm actually surprised of the popularity my silly post got! That goofy Sans, i drawed it using my left hand btw lol

[@A_Krix]

U have graced this fandom with ur art

[@sh00t1ngst4rzz]

You have done justice for the funni meme my friend :3

[@Theshmorple]

My take on sans is that he REALLY does care hes just trying his hardest to keep that facade up

[@sempere136]

Where Fanon fails is not in his pacifist personality, but in his genocidal route personality.

[@skell6134]

When we talk about fanon it usually implies geno route talk though

[@Creatore45]

Fanon frisk:uh hey~ iam a sexy girl who is with a skelton and we have fun~ evry night~ Fanon kris:IAM GAY

[@sharkenjoyer]

Thing is, canon frisk doesn't have a personality, lol There are no instances where we can see what frisk is like in the game Because you, as the player, are supposed to project yourself onto frisk and give them your personality and attributes, so 'fanon' "uh hey~ i am a sexy girl~" frisk is just as plausible and valid as your idea of what 'canon' frisk is, lol

[@Creatore45]

​@@sharkenjoyeri know i was Just making fun of people making frisk way to sexy

[@platinumg.8614]

​@@sharkenjoyerThe weird part is the sexy part though. Even with the fact that they represent the player, still a child.

[@lartts7483]

Ralsei quite literally has a crush of Kris though??

[@sharkenjoyer]

@@platinumg.8614 Eh, most artists age the character up, or use the "idea" of frisk to convey their character

[@Thodoraras2000]

the majority of undercast having fanon vs canon flowey:do you see this shit undyne?

[@Pumpkinsmasherok]

Ah yes the two characters who could take eachother places and not much would change

[@grandevirtude9830]

i really hate the fanon concept that Papyrus is completely unaware of any event arround him and the notion that he's 999% gillible.

[@trulyplasmatic]

alright, here's a detail people seem to forget about sans: he knows about timelines. (LARGE PARAGRAPH WARNING) he doesn't exactly know everything, he calls you a "time traveler" in the pacifist/neutral route; a very rudimentary way of describing what frisk is actually capable of doing. this stems from his observation of the player's mannerisms, and a few other assumptions based on his research. the j-bug animation decided to emphasize this information quite a bit. sans is visibly taken aback, trying to come up with a takeaway for even visiting his brother's death site. this might be presumptive, but his tone may be monotonous to emphasize how much he hides his emotions, really only letting them out as small bits of vague dialogue ("you can't understand how this feels.", "i gave up trying to go back a long time ago.", "i was secretly hoping we could be friends.") however, the main reason he acts so "indifferent" is because of the aforementioned. "you can't understand how this feels." "knowing that one day, without warning..." "it's all gonna be reset." he's plagued with the knowledge that this world is on a set track, bending around the will of the player. his only solace in the loss of his brother is the fact that this isn't gonna matter at the end of the day; because he knows "you'll get bored eventually", and you'll come back. this DEFINITELY doesn't help with everything, he's clearly still affected by his brother's death even with this knowledge (the fact that he avoids you if you kill his brother, and the infamous phrase: "Y o u d i r t y b r o t h e r k i l l e r .") sans isn't like other characters, who are either detached from the world due to the knowledge of it, or are blissfully unaware. he's in an awkward spot where he doesn't know everything, but he knows something is up. if he was like the aforementioned, he either REALLY wouldn't care, or would start a personal war against you, respectively. personally? the j-bug animation did him pretty well. the only thing is, to those people who aren't willing to type an analytic paragraph on a 2 minute long animation; his lack of immediate expression makes them oblivious to the fact that, sure, he's not crying or yelling or hitting something; but inside, he's split between mourning his brother and trying to brush it off because none of this is worth worrying about in the long run.

[@5P_OFFICIAL]

Actually fandom stopped seeing sans in any serious way long time ago Now fanon sans is basically character that is memed into oblivion

[@ANT1_01]

He did care but he knew everything was gonna get reset again and his brother will be there again. That's why he doesn't care. *Anymore.*

[@Redder_Creeps]

Let's be honest: fanon vs canon is something in Undertale's fandom that we'll probably never settle. Not properly, at least

[@stitcheraser4194]

And Undyne usually being depicted near perfectly

[@grandevirtude9830]

There is an weird variation of "Frisk is just a empty husk" that is literally "Frisk is Chara's literal rotting Body" yeah....

[@Mysterious1007]

Unpopular opinion: 2016 Fanon Sans is far better than 2024 Fanon Sans, not only for being more accurate to the actual Sans as well for being more of a character in comparison.

[@Yogapants_73]

To be honest I prefer 2016 sans over current fanon sans. It doesn't make sans out to be a pile of trash because although he has a habit of underreacting and acting apathetic as a coping mechanism he still cares deep down and will be really hurt inside if you do something bad to him or the only family he has.

[@mrsurge4789]

Canon Vs. Fanon arguments always just come across to me as self-righteous people trying to impose their own beliefs of characters as factual and dismissing people who disagree as wrong to feel superior, especially on Twitter where the obsession with characterisation is at it’s all-time high It’s so inconsequential. Who actually cares if someone’s interpretation isn’t 1:1 with the original?

[@christopherearth9714]

My favorite depiction of... honestly, every character.. is probably Inverted Fate. Despite being an entirely different universe, they stay true to their original characters. Sans is a prankster who has his somber moments, and experiences grief. Papyrus is a goofy yet charismatic character with aspirations, yet is a sincere realist. Undyne is enthusiastic yet violent, but is only violent because it's her job, and will put her life on the line for the safety of monsterkind. Chara was genuinely cruel and hated humanity, and expresses her distaste throughout the beginning by acting as an enabler, but learns through Frisk's positivity that her experience with humanity doesn't define the rest of them, and reflects that with Asriel's kindness and Flowey's cruelty. Dorked my beloved

[@sh00t1ngst4rzz]

I think you forgot that Chara and Frisk is non binary (they use they/them) /nm-

[@christopherearth9714]

@@sh00t1ngst4rzz its stated that chara is trans in the GASTOS entries; she shed her previous gender of being female and became nonbinary good for them id change it but like... its hearted... i dont wanna mess that up...

[@Jst_sum_artist]

0:40 HUMAN I REMEMBER YOUR GENOCIDES🗣️🥶

[@monsterman2.0yt6]

*You're

[@Colddirector]

@@monsterman2.0yt6 You're've'st

[@monsterman2.0yt6]

@@Colddirector You're've'st'nt'er'

[@timelessbrawlereditz]

human i remember you're are genocides

[@TomaxY9YT]

​@@monsterman2.0yt6 You*

[@JustanotherBober]

"that little sh¡t"

[@j.s.ospina9861]

undertale fandom trying to understand a tridimensional character (wdym everyone is not an over simplified version of one single aspect of them???)

[@North_Starlo]

2:22 The point is not that sans doesn't care for Papyrus, it's that after knowing so much about the timelines and knowing the human probably has killed and will still kill Papyrus (and others) because of his power and basically that Sans's entire world is basically the human's playground, he just kind of accepts it. He has a hard time getting attached not because he doesn' care, but because he knows it doesn't matter anyways.

[@Solesteam]

6:00 I always imagined if papyrus survived to the end of the genocide route he'd probably do what sans does, except being actually upset and disappointed in you, not in disbelief, any hope in you would be gone after snowdin, and himself for not stopping you sooner... Though, knowing papyrus, he'd probably overestimate his defense.... It would probably be like sans' fight but only lasting one turn and not using his infamous initial attack... _And no glowing orange eye nor orange bone attacks obviously._ Just one simple yet tough blue and white bone attack that sits around neutral route undynes attack damage. No KR obviously as well, this is papyrus we're talking about, he's tough only to an undyne that was sparring with him.

[@sh00t1ngst4rzz]

Now THIS This is something! (in a really good way)

[@Solesteam]

@sh00t1ngst4rzz Wait there's a bad way for something to be something?

[@sh00t1ngst4rzz]

Wait I meant by this comment, this comment is pretty cool-! It's that I liked your interapation(my phone barely corrects my spelling 💀) of "what if Papyrus survived at the end of the geno route"! ^_^"

[@Solesteam]

@@sh00t1ngst4rzz Don't worry, I was just messing with ya, I knew what you meant from the beginning.

[@flydrop8822]

Something people dont think about is that for us, the player, dying is just a step back, but lorewise its painful. Sans canonically makes fun of the player for dying multiple times to him. In a way, he is basically torturing you for your sins. Compare that to Asgore who, when told about you dying multiples, actually feels remorse. Sans cares, he is just not very external about his emotions, but he definetely gets very mad about the player killing Papyrus or others. Hell he even threatens the player in some neutral endings, so it isnt just a genocide-only thing.

[@The_Most_PotetozEver]

You actually did nail most points in the video (hell you kinda did all of them) which is good that we actually discuss more interesting topic these days about what truly means undertale, its message, what's right or wrong and what story it truly tells. Though i would say J-bug interpretation is accurate. He is genuinely upset and dissapointed in the video. Like, the art at one point fades to a darker tone while sans talk about being not surprised yet still dissapointed shows his character. He truly can't afford to not care anymore but he has a bad time (get it) just expression them. Hell even talks about the air getting thicker so yeah. He does care but i mean. What can he do when he knows more than he should? Great video though! It's genuinely cool to have someone understanding the characters! Especially Chara because geez they are one of the most mysterious of the bunch.

[@heihogreenzx4704]

Yeah, I feel like a good chunk of why Chara gets so mischaracterized so often is due to so much of their identity and personality being pretty ambiguous.

[@The_Most_PotetozEver]

@@heihogreenzx4704 i mean. I do think it's justified since they are multiple pieces that are scattered around. Which is a great puzzle in itself to be honest. They are not evil or good after all.

[@Dragon_Aoi]

I personally think J-Bug’s interpretation and decently accurate in some areas, but not in other areas. He is too accepting that f Paps’ death imo, or at least comes across that way to people. Which I do t find super accurate. And I also feel like Sans would be more upset or at least angry considering the stuff we have in canon. It is still a good video and take though. I just don’t find it as accurate as some people make it out to be. Which, I am fine with people finding it really accurate. I just wish they didn’t make it out to be the most accurate u can get Sans’ reaction to Paps’ death. Or at least didn’t put down other takes so much in order to prop up the take/video. Still a fine take and video, like I said though.

[@The_Most_PotetozEver]

@@Dragon_Aoi i think people are over exaggerating how sans would not react to anything that happens. I think his take was fine because at least you could feel he did have some emotions but people overdo it, which isn't that surprising actually. I do agree that Sans would have more reaction to it but i feel like people took it and made it to the extreme. I have a different take on how sans would react but it's still a fine take. It's fine to have different take but as you said the fandom overshadows other takes because they do too much. Which is why i like that we can talk normally about it!

[@A_Krix]

​@@Dragon_AoiI think the general apathy and numb reaction he has to it is what appeals to me tbh. It's not because I think he is numb to it, it's that he actually feels intense emotions on the inside but he knows it doesn't matter, and so he doesn't try to react much because *what's the point?* He's a nihilist, if you will. Probably bcuz he depressed as fuck.

[@JaelGuzman-b4n]

I am surprised you didn't mention the Frisk characterization (that originated from Glitchtale) where it's kinda an expansion on the whole "Frisk and the player are same" mind set, but is basically a god who can defeat, Superman, Goku and all of the Avengers at the same time because determination.

[@neonotterpop2528]

seriously though, I've seen genocide fan fights that put frisk through the most insane, unsurvivable circumstances and still have the player win. like the player isn't even going to go that far, if that actually happened the player would go "this is stupid and unbalanced" and give up lol

[@scizorscyther694]

A war that will never end

[@noideangl]

omg is thtat frotggti ghte fundying?!?/!?!?!

[@ivanlol7153]

A war without reason

[@scizorscyther694]

@@noideangl is that I.D KNOW the ROYAL SCIENTIST???!!!!!!!!!

[@SenGaming-105]

​@@ivanlol7153this truly was the only way it could've ended

[@zaxentothegreedy7816]

The UT Prequel Games that release will likely add fuel to the fire and set any positive canon progress made quite further.

[@k_klaw2097]

I think what you don't realize is that sans doesn't need to show you he cares. He can care and not show that on his face that's the whole thing, he just doesn't show emotions.

[@Oleja2008]

Based

[@RockmariomkiZX]

5:43 Toriel also explicitly notes part of her disagreement with Asgore is method; she actually straight up suggests to use the first human SOUL they find to go out and kill six more humans to break the barrier with (similar to how Asriel went out with Chara’s body)

[@eggshelleater900]

i will be taking that "that little shit" image, its just so good

[@bill-bath9621]

It’s kinda unbelievable that these people made their own version of Fanom Sans because they hated the old version of him.

[@DanielPlayzGamez]

I think in the J-Bug animation, it was just misunderstood, from what I remember, Sans does show some form of anger, especially with the art style changing and his eyes going blank, but he knows he can’t do anything, it’s not the most accurate but Sans does show some emotion of Papyrus’ death, even thinking about him before the animation ends. (He also said i thought they’d change or something like that, possibly meaning he does know about the other timelines in detail, which really isn’t accurate)

[@Dragon_Aoi]

Sans does know about the other timelines though?

[@DanielPlayzGamez]

@@Dragon_Aoi oh yeah I mis worded that, srry I meant he knows about them but only reads, not know exactly what happened.

[@wildfire9280]

“Let us erase this pointless world and move on to the next.” (Terrifying) “After I defeat you and gain control over the timeline… I just want to reset everything.” (Wholesome)

[@SafiraDDLC]

I think this happens in every old fandom, people despise so much the old fanon that they create a new one that is most of the times even worse then the old one

[@Lunarcreeper]

7:06 Fun fact: she actually does end herself in some of the neutral endings, particularly in ones where undyne is dead.

[@HollowMaskYT]

I believe the J-Bug animation does a great job representing the character of Sans. The issue arises from how some people misunderstood the animation and took it to extremes. In the animation, Sans displays expressions we already know, he never changes his signature smile, only slightly shifting during his death scene. If anything, Sans does care but struggles to show it. He appears apathetic, and many have commented that his most likely reaction would be "that little shit," expressing more anger than sadness. My biggest problem with the fanon portrayal of Sans is how he’s often given expressions involving his mouth, which I feel really uncanny. At least with this "canon" version of Sans, people seem to have moved away from that, so it's a step in the right direction. I guess???... There's also a comic called "A Proper Snowdin Burial" that is similar to the J-Bug animation but it has more anger and pain without altering Sans's mouth or showing him cry. We don't really know if he can cry actually (Papyrus has one sprite showing that, but the brothers are so different and weird that it’s hard to say for sure). In summary, I really like the J-Bug animation; I think it captures Sans well. While I agree that it could have shown more anger and frustration, it’s still a better characterization than what we saw in the early 2016-2018 fanon.

[@Man-q7o]

You addressed it!!! I've been thinking about this for so long! Im insanely tired of most people nowadays following the "canon" which is just the opposite of what they call the fanom. Id also make a point about the recent attempts to make aus more similar to undertale, opposing their whole point, but thats more subjective i guess.

[@tacopizzasandwich621]

It’s two ways of oversimplifying what’s meant to be a complex and multifaceted character grieving his brother’s death in regards to sans; one that focuses on the sad edgy side of things and portraying him as an over emotional crybaby, and one that ignores the drama and focuses on his complete lack of emotion (which is obviously not canon either, he’s hiding his emotions under a facade most of the time). The fandom always goes overboard on either side without acknowledging that that’s almost never the case, and that nearly every character is more than just their surface level

[@IDK-qq7ct]

Basically, no one in the Fandom understand the value of basic human emotions. It’s gotta be one sided. Also people still think that Chara is evil (surprisingly)

[@CatSlapps]

To this day,I still debate someone who is blaming chara .💀☠️☠️💀🤡

[@Oleja2008]

People blame Chara because their story is really understated and incomplete, lacks a lot of important details or a good explanation at least. I just recently knew that Chara's wish to see village's flowers before death is specifically a lie to monsters, when the only person who knew is Asriel. Before I thought Asriel is not aware. Also it's not only about blaming Chara.

[@HopefullyUnknown]

Oh yeah cuz being the Undertale version of the lich isn't evil at all

[@sonicx2.0577]

If sans had a twitter account, he would be so lazy, that his reponse about this argument is gonna be something like "Yes, no, ok kid"

[@elcrakcultraporxchara3260]

Frisk is quite an interesting character nonetheless. Legends within localizations mentions "the three envites vying for control of the main character's body" and "except here (talking about DT and its abilities), its the actual, physical player's determination that enables the ability. The main character is just along for the ride". It makes pretty obvious that the Player, Frisk and Chara are different characters with diff moralities which makes pretty funny how people still debates if they're truly one in the same.

[@The1O1]

The community was so scared of the cringey old days that they made an entire 180 on everyone’s character.

[@fleettgp]

Mortem Obire and SF: I Hate You were not in my bingo card but they are my beloveds so I'm not complaining.

[@Clock1-work7]

I think Chara went like this: *Ruins*- Not Awake *Snowdin*- “Well, THEY’RE killing not me. I guess I’m being benefitted, too, and I can’t stop them! Don’t look at me! [insert more weak justification.]” Chara probably felt some guilt, but tried to justify her lack of trying to prevent you. *Waterfall*- “These people don’t really matter. I get brought back, random nobodies die, what’s the problem?” Chara knows deep down that what you’re doing is wrong, she just has no will to stop you, and even plays along. *Hotland*- “KILL! Bring me back! Make them cower! Don’t leave anyone alive! It’s just a game! KILL THEM ALL!” Any guilt is gone. Your mercilessness has rubbed off on Chara. *Ending*- “Nothing matters. I’m back, but what purpose do I serve? This is all just a game, so why shouldn’t I just delete everything.” Now Chara’s just a full on sociopath. Fully convinced that this is just a game and that nothing matters, she just ends it all. Idk that’s what I think.

[@Dragon_Aoi]

Pretty sure Chara was awake in the Ruins, at least in Geno (though).

[@r3b3el]

The "Baby girl, daddy's home" video has scarred me for life

[@Positron001]

His form just deteriorated as the video went on till he became Michael Jackson's reanimated corpse

[@TheKingiguess]

It went from a pixel guy beating down a child to literal fan lore and NO real and canon stuff alive

[@youyououmf8200]

About chara, it's like drug. Everytime you kill a monster, chara feel the exp and love going up

[@tr1ke435]

I always thought the reaction was one of those seething hot rages. the type of rage that makes you go quiet, with ice flooding your veins. but there's so much rage and grief, that you can't even process it, and tip over the edge so far that it loops back around into normal. but sans is a logical guy, and was shown to follow frisk (see shyren genocide fight) probably wanting to strike, but knowing the best chance he has is to wait until frisk got more XP, because the more XP and LV frisk has, the more powerful his attacks are, and the better chance at success, because he can dodge.

[@CatSlapps]

The annoying thing is that how a fandom can completely change the character outlook.This made a chain of those “sans aus all trying to make their sans the most edge and saddest story in the world.Mixed that with homestuck melgo themes.

[@dawsond4123]

I remember going through the tweets and absolutely losing my mind at how many “I think sans would just stand there staring” tweets there were like there were SO MANY AND THEY WERE ALL PHRASED THE SAME

[@youhappy3]

muffet isnt more evil than mr krabs mr krabs legit sold his fry cooks soul for 62 cents dawg

[@Shard_vs]

someone explain to people that undertales characters have more than 1 single personality trait

[@epicgamernoisesintensifies6238]

3:42 this is probably due to the fandom’s originally portrayal of Chara as the one doing the genocide route, when the real message was supposed to be that it was you, the player. I guess when people realized the real message, they didn’t remember that Chara *did* do some bad stuff, not just the genocide route that the fandom attributed to them.