Fantastic Creepy Coffins, Studded and leather. #history #coffin #ireland
Пікірлер: 236
@Lorriann632 ай бұрын
I loved the words on several of those monuments. You just don't get that sentiment any more. Thank you, Sue, for giving these forgotten graves some love.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
You are so welcome!
@mr.slothington45172 ай бұрын
That church with the tower is pretty cool Imagine this just inside your neighborhood. These Irish church yards never cease to amaze me. Thanks for another great video.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thank you, this graveyard had a little of everything
@patcardiff25632 ай бұрын
Just love plant around the grave red and green
@littlesilver22052 ай бұрын
Incredible to see those coffins in such great shape , you know they were elite with those kinds of coffins no one could afford anything like that back then ,great video Sue.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Absolutely, beautifully made
@vdimasteremeritus2 ай бұрын
As always Sue, you stir my love of history and although the stone tower and church are great, it was the mention of Newbridge House and their dedicated servants that really piqued my interest. The house was built for Charles Cobbe, who was the Archbishop of Dublin in 1747. So people who showed fidelity and dedication were honored by him.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Wow, thank you, that's interesting
@iamshotty2 ай бұрын
Wow. Almost 300 years. Such beautiful history and sentiment, it transports you back in time, as you imagine their lives and the love they shared. Rest well beautiful people. Thank you so much Sue xx Teresa 🇦🇺♥
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it Teresa
@cathys70872 ай бұрын
Would absolutely love to go back in time to what that grocer’s establishment looked like in the 1700’s. So very fascinating! Thanks Sue ❤
@uweyaa2 ай бұрын
Me too!
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Me too
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Me three
@CatCmdr2 ай бұрын
I started watching, then I lost you….three phone calls later, I’m finally able to get back on!! It never rains but it pours. ☔️ 🌈 That fenced nag in the intro was stunning. 🤩 The music was grand, too! 😅 I will NDEs what being a grocer was like back in the 1700s?! No Tescos or Supermarkets back then! It is especially thrilling to see those very very old tombstones. Love the Stoney walls around it, too. I’m used to castles having chapels inside, but not a church having a castle attached to it!! 😮 Rich or Poor, our bodies end up the same way. 🤦🏼♀️ What a place… Thank you Sue 💚💛💚
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks Brenda ❤️
@Corgis1752 ай бұрын
Sweet sentiments for the gardener. RIP to all. Lovely cemetery and church.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
I loved that
@katep232 ай бұрын
So interesting thank you Sue. Loved the words about the gardener too.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it
@GraveVisitations2 ай бұрын
Super looking crypt
@johnbastien38722 ай бұрын
Open ventilation and no ground water saved that vault contents.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Superb condition
@maureenalder89052 ай бұрын
How lovely the master of Newbridge recognised his hard working employees 👏 This is pure history that i love to see..sweet ❤
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
I love when we see the inscriptions like that
@user-no5xk2dr5b2 ай бұрын
Thank you Sue for documenting this church and cemetery It’s so interesting knowing about the history and on the headstones Thanks Brendan 🌹👍
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
You're very welcome Brendan 🙏
@LauraKnotek2 ай бұрын
That Cobbe vault is beautiful. I also love those beautiful headstones for the gardener and the other servant.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Me too 🥰
@maryleeswope33532 ай бұрын
Your red berried bush is pyracantha. Beautiful grounds and mausoleum. The coffins remind me of several seen at Highgate...love the history. This is a very peaceful place.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks Mary ❤️
@haroldmclean37552 ай бұрын
Those two Cobbes looked very Comfortable in their Crypt, I noticed that the joints in the Stonework at the front of the Crypt were super tight, the mark of High quality execution by the Stonemasons, Some of the other headstones with high relief Carvings would have cost quite a bit too, May you both have a very pleasant day 👍
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks Harold ❤️
@gregdiamond60232 ай бұрын
The leather studded coffins were stunning. The church and tower lend a certain charm to the graveyard.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks ❤️
@tinasummers45782 ай бұрын
Hello Serenity Sue glad to see another video ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Hi Tina
@tinasummers45782 ай бұрын
@@SerenitySueGraveyards Hi thank you ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
@THE.ORIGINAL9992 ай бұрын
Wow, this is something worth researching and exploring. The history of the people of the world can be said to be the best 👍
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
I completely agree 👍
@michaelbedinger41212 ай бұрын
Awesome video! The church and graveyard were very interesting. Thank you very much Sue and GV. Have a great day. 😊
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks ❤️
@michaelbedinger41212 ай бұрын
@@SerenitySueGraveyardsYou are very much welcome! Thank you very much for getting back to me. Take care. 😊
@joelhurley26782 ай бұрын
Very interesting tour of that beautiful cemetery and church thank you so much Sue for sharing.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks Joel ❤️
@kimberleyannedemong56212 ай бұрын
I really like these videos. I love all the history in the old graveyards. ❤
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks ❤️
@jacquelinesmedley78532 ай бұрын
Thank goodness no more Masters and mistresses using Servants as chattel, what total disregard and disdain the higher class system had for the lower class back in the old days which is reflected in the Church's graveyard, amazing social history thanks, Sue. x
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Indeed!
@Ptr8342 ай бұрын
Aussie Pete here and once again another interesting video... loved the old tower and the old style coffins was amazing...i did watch a documentary on a dig they did in England at an old cemetery where they had to move all the bodies for construction and some of the coffins was in great condition and had stud's all over some of them... thanks again for another keep safe
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thank you, take care
@sallykohorst88032 ай бұрын
First Sue you looked so pretty and the tour was lovely so thanks for taking us with you and GV
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
My pleasure 😊 thank you ❤️
@cherylschantz98932 ай бұрын
What wonderful words from an employer to his gardener.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
I love that
@olgamaksymiw77652 ай бұрын
Thank you again for a wonde lookinto the history. Of this beautiful country. Ble?as you've bo. Peace. !
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks ❤️
@kathyn87802 ай бұрын
lovely having the pics and history Sue thanks
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Definitely nice when you find their story
@suechurchill21612 ай бұрын
What a lovely history on stone tour!! So love the history stories on them!!
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it
@kathywebber86212 ай бұрын
Beautiful cemetery and church. I love the inscription on the headstone.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Me too 🥰
@RedheadTales2 ай бұрын
I love the intro ❤ beautiful place you guys never disappoint 💕
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks so much Irene, hope you're well
@philknerr45872 ай бұрын
Cemetery looks very well kept considering the age of a lot of the graves. The caskets are in amazing condition considering their age.Great video
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Totally agree
@annfahy25892 ай бұрын
You never fail to deliver a great video. Beautiful place and some wonderfully worded gravestones,Thank you x
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it
@denniskuykendall43062 ай бұрын
Thank you once again for a Great Video!!
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks so much ❤️
@mysticmimaw2 ай бұрын
Awesome video! Thanks ❤❤
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
You're welcome 😊
@nadiabrook78712 ай бұрын
LOVED the scary introduction music!! What an ABSOLUTELY STUNNING place!! I've NEVER seen a church with a yellow door before!! It makes the building stand out!! Well done, Sue, for unlocking yet another Irish gem!! 🤗👍💞👏❤💕
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Ahh thanks Nadia, never seen yellow either, I love it
@nadiabrook78712 ай бұрын
@@SerenitySueGraveyardsSo do I, Sue!! It's like a sunshine yellow, which is a VERY welcoming colour!!🌞❤
@tinasavage6742 ай бұрын
Lovely grave yard sue , a lot of character , thanks 😊
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks
@Marksillerymusic2 ай бұрын
Cool church and graveyard but ders not much chance of reading the old stones. Still very cool to see them. And sure you'd have to love the craftsmanship in the making of those coffins to be still in such good shape. brilliant video Sue and Cathal
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thank you ❤️
@johnobrien78602 ай бұрын
The amazing skill of stone cutters is always in my mind as l look upon old gravestones. Such an amazing Standard. RlP.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
They sure don't make them like this anymore, great craftsmanship
@susiejakes30192 ай бұрын
Ada, that you pronounced as 'Adda' is usually pronounced as 'AY - DUH.'
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks ❤️
@lightningjac56402 ай бұрын
❤ 2 videos in 1 day 😍 I'm blessed lol. Sometimes there are symbols of their life work. Love these old tombs. Neat old castle .. Love that cross headstone! That is gorgeous! Love the vines growing around the windows. Those angels on those headstones are just stunning so detailed. Loved it guys have a blessed day. ❤🤗.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks so much ❤️
@tracysmith30762 ай бұрын
So many amazing grave stones. You never disappointe miss sue ❤
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks ❤️
@debroahisaacs24522 ай бұрын
Very prominate wealthy Cobb family. I just think it is not quite right no matter how much money to set yourself in a church above others.😢 Beautiful crypt though I never saw coffins made of leather but they have held up Beautifully. Such a lovely graveyard. Thanx Sue...always so enjoy the walks ...❤😊❤😊
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks ❤️
@jacquelinedenambtman2 ай бұрын
great and interesting video 👍 love from Holland
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching 🥰
@jacquelinedenambtman2 ай бұрын
@@SerenitySueGraveyards always a great pleasure to watch your videos , and GV too !!!!!😘
@dwightsteele40272 ай бұрын
Such a beautiful place! Thank you so much for another great video 🕊️❤️😊
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it
@tompena74872 ай бұрын
I love watching keep up the wonderful vlogs . Thanks .
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks Tom
@annelielubbe42132 ай бұрын
That is gorgeous I've never seen a leather coffin ever in my life and a beautiful church.❤❤❤❤
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Sure is very unique and beautiful
@tomsdotter32282 ай бұрын
Beautiful video! I have alot of catching up to do with you and GV. That blasted corona virus sidelined me. x 🙃
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
We missed you, I was only saying today I hoped you were OK. You poor thing, seems it's on the rise again. Hope you're feeling better ❤️
@SharonPadget2 ай бұрын
We have a rock star in the USA named Ted Nugent. Didn’t realize Nugent was an Irish name. Nice video. Thanks.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks ❤️
@janetslicer36372 ай бұрын
I was hoping you would go up to the windows on either side of the entrance and take a peek in the church. Very nicely kept graveyard. Maybe all the rain would run off the graves and settle on the walk ways and drain. Loved the leather studded caskets. Really lovely Sue. A pretty place. I still wish I knew what the Church of Ireland was ... ♥️ 🇮🇪 ☘️
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks Janet, I had a wee look but hard to see in with reflection
@user-mi1eb7iu1pАй бұрын
Gorgeous cemeteries....
@SerenitySueGraveyardsАй бұрын
Yes they are
@lees_box2 ай бұрын
02:25 I think 88 is really very old for the 1700's.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
It was, yes
@juancarlosmendozaduarte37522 ай бұрын
Susan como siempre un excelente video. Tanto tu como gv sois grandes profesionales. Me ha emocionado mucho el recuerdo que ke dedico el dueño de esa casa a su jardinero. Un abrazo muy fuerte mis queridos amigos
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks so much Juan ❤️
@SusanWoollands2 ай бұрын
Love the history of things SS
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thank you, every stone has a story x x
@mirelanonaspiridon37702 ай бұрын
Bună ziua, doamnă Vă stimez,pentru efortul și dăruirea pe care o aveți pentru acele suflete dintr o altă epocă. Îmi plac castelele, însă sunt multe cu povești triste. Da,am văzut cum un spirit a vorbit. A mulțumit 😮. Cu drag,respect Mirela Nona ❤ PS:sunt multe suflete dragi,care odihnesc.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thank you ❤️
@donnicholas75522 ай бұрын
Interesting headstones. Cool looking church.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Cheers Don
@ginabarrows24542 ай бұрын
I was surprised when I first started watching! The sounds at the beginning sounded scary so I had to look to be sure I was watching the right video! 😜🤣 great job and fyi I love scary movies
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
🤣🤣🤣
@ShelArmstrong2 ай бұрын
Hi sue lovely video has always them coffins look in very condition if they are 100 years old they look leather to me too take care 👍
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks ❤️
@CraigBarron-os9it2 ай бұрын
Another beautiful church and graveyard. Weirdly set up as you said but very beautifully looked after too. That first grave you visited, the same date of birth as mine when they passed, 21st May. Weird coincidence. Keep these great videos coming. Loving them.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thank you, yes it's always weird to see your own dates
@CraigBarron-os9it2 ай бұрын
@@SerenitySueGraveyards got that right. I've only seen one grave with the same death date as my birth date before, and that is at the same cemetery where my late father's ashes are interred. I was visiting another late friend there and when I was walking back to my car, j saw it and kind of freaked out a bit but that person lived to be 101, from 1909-2010. And his name was Charles Barton, and when I saw the last name, I thought it was my last name. Freaky or what??
@stephenharvey78682 ай бұрын
Hi sue Steve from England, another awesome video sue . Those caskets were exstrodany well preserved. The engraving to the people who have passed was exquisit, nice one sue as ever.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it
@stephenharvey78682 ай бұрын
@@SerenitySueGraveyards loved it
@ninanonna20072 ай бұрын
I just love this old churchyards that also have some recent burials. Well done guys ❤
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Me too, love you 😍
@slickwunbanghouse72572 ай бұрын
Its actually interesting to watch all these as I'm planning my burial masoleum at the moment
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Well, I've seen some amazing mausoleums and some really bad ones, water damaged, vandals etc but the ones that are aired like this ones seem to last the best
@marierowe59692 ай бұрын
I love the history in the places you visit ...❤️❤️❤️❤️
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks ❤️
@FeralSheryl18182 ай бұрын
Nice find Sue!
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks! 😊
@frankfolino3118Ай бұрын
Always fascinating!
@SerenitySueGraveyardsАй бұрын
Thanks ❤️
@suzannezethner81802 ай бұрын
And "The Cobbs" seemed to be selfish persons. We all end up rotting no matter how much $$$$ you have.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Can't bring it with us
@debbieblaylock99972 ай бұрын
That place is so beautiful all the history there i love history hi from Georgia USA ❤ i love your videos
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it
@marierklassen79852 ай бұрын
Another great video 📹 i like the stone wall . The 2 coffins in the mausoleum look like leather to me to ,the details on the coffins is very well done i wonder how long it took the person or persons to make a coffin like that back in the days . Thank you for sharing this video 📹 take care have a beautiful day from Marie in Northern British Columbia Canada 🇨🇦
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Good question, beautifully made
@garywarren-gh8os2 ай бұрын
Greetings Poteet Texas and thank for another great video.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Our pleasure!
@Barbara-JT2 ай бұрын
After she spoke of the crest an orb flew by at 10:11 did anyone else catch that? Spirits still watch over their grave sites. Just beautiful headstones and iron works. Very interesting video thank you for sharing! :))
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Seen that, thank you ❤️
@Barbara-JT2 ай бұрын
@@SerenitySueGraveyards You're so welcome!😊
@phoenixthorne61892 ай бұрын
Hi sue I like ur videos they are amazing 👍 thanks for great videos ❤️
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
You are so welcome
@tracycombs14842 ай бұрын
Wonder if I might have passed this ?? My friends in Dublin, Swords are Maxwells ...I passed on to him to see if it might be family? Beautiful Church, cemetery and history. Love places like this ❤️
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Oh you may have x x
@charlescorris34692 ай бұрын
That was a good one and I like your sunglasses…
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks ❤️
@Sheila34442 ай бұрын
Thanks!
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thank you so much Sheila 💓
@brendacanter97682 ай бұрын
Awesome place❤The coffins were in great shape❤ Was the church closed for the day? Or do they still use it? So cool❤
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
I think it has mass a few times a month
@drshelkie41532 ай бұрын
Beautiful! Any idea what the black plastic looking thing is to the right of the vault? Terrific video, THANK YOU!
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
I'm not sure
@KARSDAY2 ай бұрын
Beautiful.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@JohnLaRue-zp2uj2 ай бұрын
Great posting Sue. Question..Going through the dates on the headstones, there were recent dates as well. Ok, here comes the clueless American question. That's not a very large churchyard for being there all the years. Are the graves rotated out or something? And the crypt folks...based upon the description, being buried in leather coffins, not terribly surprising lol....
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
No just used over years and years, it's fairly common to see new and older graves, sorry about the description, think I filled enough history in the video 😅
@JohnLaRue-zp2uj2 ай бұрын
@@SerenitySueGraveyards Thanks. Fascinating historical information. Please keep up the great work!
@user-mi1eb7iu1p2 ай бұрын
Imagine all of the 👻 ghost's hanging around those cemeteries.....
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Has to be
@tinasummers45782 ай бұрын
Hello GV❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
@lindacastellan77472 ай бұрын
Very interesting,and beautiful
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thank you very much
@GraveVisitations2 ай бұрын
Entrance looks like a subway in Paris 😂
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
It does 😅
@johndean52512 ай бұрын
Beautiful
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thank you
@user-lw5ib7yn7q2 ай бұрын
Sue ❤️🍀 👍👍👍👍👍 Greetings from Brandenburg 🇩🇪 Udo
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Hello 👋
@johncarroll99862 ай бұрын
Hi sue &GV hope you're well and in good form today that shrubbery is Tony/Aster..we had it years ago around the house 🏠
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Ahh yes, I should have known the name of it, mammy would not be happy, my parents are fantastic gardeners
@lindadays89332 ай бұрын
Oh my how amazing!!!
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks, I agree
@sandracampbell98222 ай бұрын
WOW!😊
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks Sandra ❤️
@slickwunbanghouse72572 ай бұрын
Dusting them with Flour allows you to read detail's
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Yes, I've seen that done but we are not allowed to touch stones so I use a torch, handy to carry too ❤️
@donallmccrudden48122 ай бұрын
Ooh, spooky start:)
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Hope not too spooky lol
@donallmccrudden48122 ай бұрын
@@SerenitySueGraveyards nearly in tears towards the end, it's great:)
@peterredfern11742 ай бұрын
A valued employee highly esteemed May he and all who lie there R.I.P. Another top number sue safe travels to you and GV,🙏🙏👋👋👍🇦🇺
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thanks Peter ❤️
@maryleeswope33532 ай бұрын
Can you imagine servants bringing refreshments during a sermon???
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Known my luck I'd definitely be the servant
@maryleeswope33532 ай бұрын
@@SerenitySueGraveyards me too!
@covmiss12 ай бұрын
intro reminded me oh Vienna xxx
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Love that song 🎵
@cathymcglasson69472 ай бұрын
I agree very good video and you don't get that kind of sentiment anymore.
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Thank you ❤️
@jamielieberg70532 ай бұрын
Great Video those are done the old way mabe 1800-1840 the hob nails where comon back then even president lincoln coffin had them coffins look to be lead line as his was and what is great no one has went in their to desecrate their forever sleep. Every cemetery holds a lot of lot of surprises. By the way thanks for all your prays Nurse Anny my siberian husky hybrid wolf has been tending to my leg and with her licks cant sand her naws but she is helping as well a dog moth has a lot of healing as well but it is working thanks again oyu guy after reasd this will think I am crasy but it has worked from the bone to new skin it is working
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Ahh great, continued healing ❤️
@robinbarrett53012 ай бұрын
Hello Susanna and GV, hope your well!
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
Hello there!
@Cathidee2 ай бұрын
I haven’t seen many stones with the persons trade other than like a doctor or lawyer. I did see a cemetery once that showed how the person died inscribed on the headstones. Like shot in the head or drowned, or ran over by a tractor. One was even kicked in the head by a horse! So random lol
@Romantyk_Zagrebelski2 ай бұрын
Sometimes it's strange to me how is some mausoleums the coffins is actually in the open -air, but behind bars or glass doors. Old mausoleums have a smell of old smoldering wood - oak. For me it interesting how many nice churches in your country are closed - maybe there is a lack of people or there are not enough pastors?
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
This one might be open once or twice a month for mass
@charlotteh712 ай бұрын
The coffins look much older than 100 years probably at least dating back to the 1700s
@SerenitySueGraveyards2 ай бұрын
I'm only going by the criss above but yes could be far older