Unfair RWS Comparisons: 1909 vs Centennial

[@moonbabytarot]

Hey there! The 1909 uses Pam B line work and the centennial used Pam A. 😁 now back to the video LOL

[@MixtressRae]

Thank you, Brant!!! This is exactly what I wanted to know! So which is “real”?

[@moonbabytarot]

@@MixtressRae they are both “real”. Rider originally put out 4 different decks with different line work after the original Roses and Lillies back in 1909. Pam A, B, C, and D. Most modern decks are based on the Pam A and so that’s the line work we’re used to seeing most

[@MixtressRae]

@@moonbabytarot I guess I just don’t understand how the line work can be different? It’s probably just because I don’t know how the plate making works. Like when they create the plates for printing, do they have to recreate the lines? Or is it like a copy of a copy as it goes down the line?

[@MixtressRae]

Thanks so much for answering my dumb questions, Brant. I’m like “explain ancient printing techniques to me 😩” 💜

[@M4th3u54ndr4d3]

@@MixtressRae they had to redraw, that`s why they are slightly different. I love those little differences, it make them more unique

[@M4th3u54ndr4d3]

The 1909 has different thickness on the titles because in Pam B, they tried to fill the entire title space with the name. So, if the name was shorter, they had to make it bolder. While in Pam A, they didn`t care about the existance of blank space in the card title section. Also, the cards from the 1909 version sometimes have different line thickness because they tried to reproduce what happened in some factories. The machines would make the first printed cards with thicker lines while the later cards would have thinner lines because the paint was starting to end. So, it is on purpose, they are trying to reproduce the minimum details. At least that is what I've read somewhere. I love both versions. Sorry about my english.

[@MixtressRae]

That’s really interesting! Thank you for your comment. 🙏

[@tsibren]

If only the centennial had the 1909's back artwork! 😅

[@toadstooltarot]

I like the back design, lack of copyright and the narrower cards of the 1909 (and the mini version comes in a scrumptious 2 part linen box). The line definition and coloration and everything else about the Centennial, wins for me.

[@MaryGraceFahrun]

Thank you for doing this video, Mixtress Rae. I had to pause at The Emperor to comment. The faces have been changed too much for me in the 1909. It's like a re-enactment of the RWS and I find it unsettling. I am team Centennial for life. Okay, back to watching the rest of your video.

[@elenabenz5882]

I do care! Thank you so much for the video. You helped me decide which deck to get first.

[@francesrobinson1335]

I don't know if you've seen Marylyn at Tarot Clarity's recent video that compares Conrad Steyn's 1909 Rose's and Lilies with the Centennial, but the CS deck was looked at by a woman who has an actual 1909 deck. She said the CS deck is the closest in appearance to her original. And when you see the comparison, the Centennial looks rather garish - believe it or not. The CS deck is available from MPC. I gotta have it!

[@sergigonzalez55]

Thanks a lot for this! So useful! I'm buying a new Rider deck, and after this, I'll definitely go for the Centennial version ✨

[@mazkanata8259]

This is hilarious because we’re exact opposites - I only work with RWS decks. Radiant, Original, Centennial, I want them all!

[@GardenGoddessTarot]

I'm so torn, I love how easy I can shuffle LoScarabeo cards, the size is just perfect and I really like those backs. However, if I boil it down to just the images I do think I like the centennial more. It just looks 'right'. I currently have the borderless version of the centennial but feel like it's not the same without the borders, but on that note it's not like I can't read with it, it's just a weird nitpicky thing that has no effect on my ability to use and read the cards. So I guess maybe the real truth is I don't need another copy, another copy wont change my life or the way I use tarot at all, it might just make me feel weird about having a zillion copies of the same dang deck. So yeah. Thanks for listening to me talk this one out. Vastly helpful actually. Thank you! xx

[@eazyelof4283]

Check out the 1909 Art Restoration Deck by DriveThruCards. It's like Centennial, but as accurate as possible to the 1909 publication. As a bonus, no copyright mark on the cards

[@josieluo]

I just want a Centennial on Lo Scarabeo cardstock, is that too much to ask for?! 😭

[@johannasmk]

Hi! From what I've learned, the Centennial is the one based on the actual first RWS deck ("roses and lilies") from 1909, and the Lo Scarabeo deck is based on one of the later reproductions (Pam B?, Pam C? -I don't remember) that was produced in the 1930s or something and was made with different printing plates altogether, thus the different linework. So it's a bit confusing that Lo Scarabeo named their deck the Original 1909, when it's based on a later reproduction deck. If you're interested, check out the 1909 Art Restoration deck from DriveThruCards, it's a replica of the very first 1909 roses and lilies deck. (I don't know what the yellow box deck is based on, could it be a version of a Pam A, which was the first reproduction of the original deck and in printing between 1910-1920? That could explain why it's so similar to the Centennial, but this is all just me guessing, sorry :D.) I really like the colors in the Lo Scarabeo deck and love their cardstock in general, but otherwise the Centennial wins this comparison for sure!

[@MixtressRae]

It’s so interesting. So in the plate-making process, the art got changed? Did someone have to make plates based on her work, so that really NONE of the decks are her exact art? Wonder why they were so inconsistent with the colors in 1909 then?

[@johannasmk]

@@MixtressRae It really is! I read about the different editions last year when I was on my hunt for the perfect RWS deck and have forgotten a lot, but it's a whole other rabbit hole to get into :D. And it's an interesting topic of conversation for sure, origin and artistry etc. Unfortunately the printing plates were destroyed (in a fire or a bombing or sth), so part of it will probably always remain a mystery. But yes, it seems that the art definitely got changed when they made new plates for the subsequent editions (B and C), while the roses and lilies deck and the Pam A are thought to be true to Pixie's original drawings. And then there is a Pam D version, too... It's all complicated and fascinating at the same time :)).

[@MixtressRae]

@@johannasmk ohhhh ok k think I kind of get it now!!

[@diabolique5325]

May I ask what is your nail polish in this video? It is so vibrant. Thank you.

[@marklarge2348]

The centennial deck is an exact replica of the original 1909 including colour scale hand drawn borders font style and scale. The only difference is the card backs which were originally blue Tudor rose and Lillie's.

[@WinterWitchTarot]

I absolutely loved your review of both decks. The centennial is my go-to deck :) glad to see and hear someone else's perspective of both decks. Also, you are hilarious! I was laughing so hard at some comments you made throughout the video LOL. So what happened was that US Games has what's called the "Pam A" which is Pamela's original line work, so the Centennial deck holds the true linework and coloration of the first original deck. The "Original 1909" is based on the "Pam B" - a complete hot mess as we all saw LOL

[@jumpingspider6659]

Ok on this one I'm on team Centennial

[@MixtressRae]

Color wise, me too. But I can’t shuffle that thing.

[@phoebecasin]

Centennial still does it for me. Another coloration that I love is Lo Scarabeo’s Tarot Vintage. 🤍 First time commenting, but have been watching your content a lot. Thanks, Mixtress Rae! ✨

[@MixtressRae]

Hi Phoebe! Thanks for saying hi!

[@khan7459]

I think a lot of the faces look much more neutral in the centennial. The Lo scarabeo ones look all so ... unfriendly? The emperor especially - while I could still read the positive treats into the centennial emperor, the lo scarabeo emperor looks to me like I really would prefer not to meet that guy in person. The queen of wands' face is the only exception - here I prefer the lo scarabeo one. If you have your decks for personal growth, divination, studying the concepts of tarot etc. and not for "historical" reasons, I think either one would be ok and I'd go for the one you enjoy more to look at in a reading.

[@m0rdresh]

The 1909 original is somewhat flawed imo, too many alterations. The letters on the cards are not Pamela Smith ones (copyright issue), the things like you noticed and mentioned (photoshop, changes) but for me the smaller card size combined with some image scaling is a let down for me. My preference is still Centennial, it has so much more soul then the other iterations. And calling it Smith Waite deck putting the artist and woman first after A 100 years of just Rider Waite - what is there not to like.

[@thevoid7801]

I really love the centennial. However what truly bothers me about this deck are the uneven margins on the back..

[@eazyelof4283]

Huh, I havent seen this 1909 version. Did they mention how they did it? I have the 1909 Art Restoration Deck by DriveThruCards. Honestly, hearing that Lo Sacarebo made this deck I'm kinda hesitant. The two decks I have by them I do not like. I feel like the definition of the images are unclear (they both had modern art so theres no excuse) and I do not like the thinness of the cards or how slippery they feel. I really like my 1909 ARD. The card quality and colors are amazing. They muted, but that's how it was made, the yellows for example seem too saturated in the Lo Scarebo 1909 Edit: just saw the other comment I think I understand more now. The 1909 ARD that i have actually used one of the five known Roses and Lillies deck from 1909, before these Pam A-D. I dont know what the full story is with those, but apparently the came after. So I definitely highly reccomend the 1909 ARD. They dont change anything, they even restored the mistakes that were present in the original Roses and Lillies they have

[@traceel.8194]

The Emperor is my birth card…the one in the 1909 scares me tbh. That’s what I thought when I first saw it…the face gives me not good vibes…And the Emperor is a hard card for me already. Also 1909 looks like someone used tracing paper & kinda “traced” it & used the tracing adding color… I’ll be back when u get to the wands. One thing that kinda triggers me is in the Centennial, (I only have that one) how all the wands look like a penis. There’s penises everywhere I feel like lol! Not that bad but I had a bad experience once when I realized it…I had to put it away for a while. I started using it again because my best reader…most accurate. Okay sorry if this sounds like a bunch of bullshit…I really have never even experienced something like that with any decks before, I think it was more coming up because it was telling me some shit I have to stop pushing down & ignoring. So I love my Centennial…top 5 for sure.

[@traceel.8194]

Okay looking at the Page of Wands…looks like they are pretty much the same as far as looking like dicks. And blame my Gay Uncle Nicky…he’s the one that made sure I knew it was him w/this card & it had me rolling on the floor…when I sent the card to my fam & asked who do u think is sending me a message w/this card?…Each fam member guessed Uncle Nicky! It’s a long story but yeah lol.

[@traceel.8194]

I love the Centennial so much more after seeing this video…I love Pamela’s art way more.

[@Dunsel2025]

Thicker card stock should always be the best. Thinner card stock is cheap crap.