UniFi Alternatives?

[@ThioJoe]

I find it ironic they force you to use their cloud right after their data was breached... Glad I didn't have a unifi account, I just did it all locally. The breach doesn't have me very excited to sign up lol.

[@SpencerHHO]

I hope a bunch of the smaller manufacturers get together and support an open source alternative that works across their platforms because as a collective they have the size to compete with Unifi, Cisco and the like for the prosumer and SME segment.

[@awarepenguin3376]

blown away that they want you to have a cloud account but were just breached not too long ago.

[@Wahinies]

I love me some irony

[@SalvoDan]

They had the cloud requirement in the roadmap before the breach. The breach does not come at the opportune time for them and it could be argued that a malicious breach may be in retaliation against those plans. Or it could just be a coincidence of timing.

[@randalllawkin]

and breached again just a few days ago.

[@nexushexus4365]

The breach was a employee trying to extort Bitcoin from Ubiquiti.

[@niklasxl]

im hoping some open source system emerges at some point so that all the vendor lock in goes away :)

[@matthewhicks6089]

Diy is the route to go if you are looking at this with the same pi many host their controllers on.

[@mishortProductions]

As far as I know UniFi devices are running some kind of openWRT firmware. So basically a controller software for all openWRT routers would be cool. I think the main reason that this hasn’t happened by now is, that people knowing how to flash openWRT on cheap tp-link hardware don’t need a controler software for doing basic network changes, like UniFi customers. Only benefit for these kind of customers would be fleet management.

[@mal798]

The support and stability also goes away when there's no financial motivation. I love open source in theory, but I'm skeptical.

[@patrickschneider7425]

@@mishortProductions Ubiquiti devices run EdgeOS, a fork of Vyos(formally Vyatta). Regard OpenWRT: There is a sort of central management solution for OpenWRT called openWISP.

[@zxcvb_bvcxz]

The problem is getting access to the full Qualcomm and Broadcom feature set - think beamforming, hardware switch acceleration, even Broadcom's layer 2 bridging.

[@jannikmeissner]

You raised some true points. In November I migrated my modest home network from Cisco Meraki to Ubiquiti Unify and I have not regretted it once so far. I run a DreamMachine (not the Pro) as my Router and bought a couple of UniFi APs to cover the house, but the hardware was still cheaper than extending the Meraki licences for another three years

[@jurie911]

Really love Unifi for wireless. CAPsMAN may be an option but with drawbacks.

[@nilpo]

What drawbacks are you concerned about? I prefer it over Unifi in most ways.

[@jurie911]

​@@nilpo The management of multiple sites does get a little troublesome using OpenVPN TCP or SSTP vs Unifi. I am using Mikrotik hardware for my home firewall, Queuing, PPPOE, VLANS, routing and mangle rules. RouterOS combined with Unifi works really well for my projects.

[@billfisk3323]

Thank you for being the voice of reason. You are totally correct. I can't find anything out there that allows for an self-hosted controller in the range of Unifi. Doesn't really happen until you get to the next tier of expensive.

[@PawelTomal]

Omada is actually pretty good and I'd suggest diving into it. Especially with the new Switches and Routers, very little devices but it looks promising. Plus they're working on the cloud controller as well.

[@jayhardway23]

As an early Unifi user, I am now an early Omada user. Please do a video on a basic Omada SDN605 + Switch + Access point... It hasn't been a bad experience on a symmetrical gigabit connection with multiple VPN's

[@andymok7945]

I bought the cloud key as I did not want to have to maintain yet another VM, computer, etc. Simple just sits off to the side. Update the firmware and now you have to have a cloud account, no way. Only had my setup for a year and it is working well, but with this change and who knows what else, time to look else where. Also won't be deploying the product anymore.

[@gizmo9987]

Tom, what do you think about joining forces with other tech youtubers with a huge fan base like linus tech tips to politely persuade Ubiquiti into making decisions that are more welcoming to their customers?

[@TomBabula]

I use EdgeMax for wired portion and Engenious Tech for wireless portion.

[@DatHaisAWESOME]

Engenius comes to mind with their EzMaster controller. Never played with it though.

[@ethanboles3141]

I've used the on prem switch/controller which is great! Haven't used EzMaster though.

[@ecsciguy79]

Yeah, I didn't think Redhat would F#*k over their community, but sometimes corporations just don't care.

[@MrVagyok]

Yeah, the problem is that once they get big (nearly monopole size in their respective area), they forgot how they got there! If people would not trust their product/services would not pay for it! The same is true still, the way this can be fought is by having law to protect customers, users and businesses who buys their product against such changes!!! Also monopolization should be banned on the law level and should punish such with HUUGE FINE so that it not worth to do so, plus the law also should prohibit to merge lots of similar types of company under ONE BIG and consider it as monopolization too and deal with it accordingly! Until such time unifi/redHat/apple/ms/fb/twitter/amazon/google etc will exist and have big impact on our digital life and keep destroying competition! - Hope Unifi will NOT get more nasty and this is their last business level goofing toward customers and will not try further stupid similar thing! The next stupid move certainly will cause their business, although that will require uniform user back off to hurt their economy/stock value enough to have investors change their minds to get their stock value back. Unfortunately ALL INVESTORS base their decision solely or ROI in a very very very stupid disrespectful way to their actual customers, sadly not enough customers STOP supporting the product when it happens! If there would be a law to sue companies easily for such under the belt changes with really ridiculously BIG fines, this really would make ANY BIG CORPORATION to think multiple times before even considering to pull such move off!

[@MareLooke]

Well, Red Hat has been owned by IBM for quite a while now... ;)

[@MikeBolitho]

@@MrVagyok RHEL isn't their own entity.

[@MrVagyok]

@@MikeBolitho Yeh, but now IBM got the bright idea to further monopolize on it even risking to break the trust which has been put into CentOS, not mentioning all the efforts contributors put into to CentOS. Greedy bastards!

[@cloudcultdev]

At this point, it’s very challenging to say that Ubiquiti fully understands their users. You really nailed it with the roadmap...I just wish they’d publish a public roadmap. This would help manage disappointment from users.

[@jrmcnulty4978]

Tom... I would agree with your assessment. I think that UniFi is starting to segment their market between Prosumer and their medium/large clients. This started with their dream machine line and is continuing with their cloud controller. For most home users, it will be no problem. I believe they still have good value in the market. But, for your clients, there really is starting to be a divide. I would hope that they have done the market analysis and figured that they but the line smack down the middle of your clients. I believe the next thing they are going to do is they will start to have a license fee for the control software. So, the market will be cloud controller line (which will be sun setting soon), dream machine line for small home office, and then medium/large deployment with them having customer provided hardware and a license fee for the controller software. For now, I am still with them as a home user and a small single office setup. But, I am keeping an eye out in the market. There is just not much out in the market right now that I would feel comfortable with to use.

[@geogmz8277]

Damn! I was literally learning about OpenDayLight.. When this video popped up.. I'm currently trying to set a Mikrotik + ODL Network..

[@andljoy]

You could run router OS virtually, run CAPsMAN and then link in external CAPs

[@ofloo9661]

To be honest unifi-video wasn't going away when protect came out, but a year late EOL ubiquity has track record when it comes to these things. When they remove something in one place you can be sure that the rest follows.

[@CoreyThompson73]

I'm also reminded why I deploy onsite unifi controllers on Raspberry Pis instead of cloud keys..

[@DonGerico]

What spec pi do you need for the controller? Does it need much RAM?

[@xboxlive6]

@@DonGerico 2GB or 4GB should do.

[@RuuDBoY868]

Are they east to remotely manage? I haven't deployed these yet so I'm not too familiar with the interface unfortunately

[@jada1173]

The pi have a drawback, it's only sd card. It wear out the cards over time, even the expensive ones.. When pi have real hard drive controller that would probably be a better solution.

[@xboxlive6]

@@jada1173 Which is where a RAM disk comes in. Or use network storage.

[@PrestonMainard]

Aruba Unified APs running Instant virtual controller locally is a great UniFi replacement. Combined with Aruba Airwave (on site) allows for great multi site management of Instant clusters and Aruba switches. Airwave is a paid per device license though.

[@davidkline1441]

this makes me rethink on going with them for home was thinking of a udnp 1-2 ap's and 2-5 cameras will wait for now

[@Zomby_Woof]

Definitely not the way to go for cameras. The hardware is middle of the road, software is promotive, and the price is high end. Switches are marginal - cisco's Small Biz line the got from Linksys has better bang for the buck. Their 'security gateway' is flawed in concept - not enough ass to do any real filtering at speed. All in all, UB is charging a very steep price for the UI, in the form of limitations in the discrete components.

[@Bierkameel]

I switched from full Unifi to Aruba Instant On, awesome AP's and very stable. no firmware problems so far :)

[@adamhorwitz433]

Hey if you see this, after 3 years, are you still happy with Aruba Instant On? How about firmware issues? This was my complaint about Unifi. I got tired of being the home IT department and switched to multiple Eero Pro 6E APs. All was good last year except for lack of features, but it worked. This year not so good with firmware seeming like Alpha or beta. So I am looking to make another change.

[@LAWRENCESYSTEMS]

Links: UniFi Cloudkey: New Firmware Removes Multi Site Feature and Other Changes kzbin.info/www/bejne/nX_OiXSbZcaCd8k docs.ruckuswireless.com/unleashed/200.1.9.12/c-UnleashedLimitationsAndDeviations.html Related UnFi forum posts community.ui.com/questions/Ubiquiti-PLEASE-Restore-ability-to-add-import-sites-to-NEW-CloudKey-and-Controllers-after-2-0-24-up/e613be0e-9eab-4ba7-ab4d-17dc50a39df1 community.ui.com/questions/Removing-Multisite-The-End-of-Self-Hosting/a71ab3fc-1911-4017-a596-80a82c8fc409

[@andreacoppini]

The Ruckus doc you're referring to is for version 1, Unleashed is currently at version 9 with loads of new features, increased AP model support and, most importantly, support for 128 APs in one Unleashed cluster. It also supports switching.

[@LAWRENCESYSTEMS]

@@andreacoppini Thanks. They need a site that makes information a bit more concise.

[@andreacoppini]

@@LAWRENCESYSTEMS you’re right, I’ll let them know :-). That document you’re linking to was a comparison for existing ZoneDirector controller users back when Unleashed was first introduced.

[@johnschroeder3072]

@Lawrence Systems I think with the Ruckus Zonedirector and there Virtual appliance you can just pay to licence the controller up to a certain number of devices but after that you don't have to pay any other licenceing though support contracts are available.

[@cdoublejj]

does netgear insight have a local controller? im thinking for a fee though?

[@grocerylist]

Wow clients with 300-400 APs?! I used to setup networks/servers for large call centers supporting upwards of 500 employees and I can't remember ever installing more than maybe 30 APs max. 400 APs sounds like a massive corporate head quarters for FAANG.

[@leonardogyn]

Hey Tom... I was recently looking for UniFi alternatives as well and kind of get to the same conclusions as you. Like it or not, UniFi still has some very interesting differentials from all the others. Not being forced to cloud only management is very important to me as well and, as of today, UniFi is basically the only one that allows that. There's Mikrotik with capsman, but it's for the very techy nerds only, not quite easy as things can be with UniFi. Despite being worried with some changes and specially lack of communication on some important changes, I have no option to keep using UniFi. Despite some problems, it's still a very great networking solution (for wireless and switches, forget the gateways)

[@IM_A_BEAR_LOL]

I like the TP-Link Omada platform for small single site deployments. The hardware is inexpensive and reliable, and the Omada controller software does what you need after you learn it's quirks. But I dont see it scaling up very well. Their new SDN controller update is less than a year old, and the switch support is minimal. They also dont have great options for switching hardware, especially noticeable is 10G/multi switches being absent while their newest AP offering has a 2.5G port on it.

[@MrsGussDoughboys]

You mentioned Zoneminder @ 6:50 I think you meant Zonedirector ? Zoneminder is an opensource camera surveillance software for Linux which I use.

[@423tech]

I've been using Aruba IAP-205s in my house for about two years. I have never needed to reboot one. They just work. I just ordered 3 Aruba IAP-225s to get the 3x3 MIMO capabilities, and they were $89/each used from eBay. No controller needed. No cloud. No licenses. Enterprise features. Configure one AP the way you want, and the rest boot up, discover, and auto provision themselves.

[@joshsmith4998]

TP-Link recently released a pretty big update to their Omada Controller and I think at the least it's a step in the right direction. They've added support for switches and they also have a router/firewall appliance that supports it as well, and I believe they even released software updates for a few recent switches to add support for them. They claim to have a simplified VPN setup if you are connecting sites that have their supported router/firewall. It's not quite as robust in terms of configurability even compared to Unifi, but I think it's fair to at least keep it in your radar! I use their OC200 appliance that runs the controller software and paired it with a few of their APs in my home with a couple WLANs and I've basically had zero Wi-Fi problems.

[@ystebadvonschlegel3295]

I’m looking to switch as well. Ubiquiti has been going downhill rapidly.

[@geogmz8277]

I'm with Tom I don't think they'll move to the cloud.. But! Again they're people that used to work for Apple.. 😅

[@daltonschrader8328]

I feel like it's the bait and switch method. Get everyone on there platform and then pull the features that everyone switched because of.

[@austinwilson930]

@Kirk Eby I run mine in a docker container as well on my NAS.

[@MrVagyok]

@@daltonschrader8328 Sad, but true!

[@daltonschrader8328]

@Kirk Eby I also self host via docker for my customers. I use an unraid Nas

[@mikebarber1]

Aruba Instant is self hosted controller/cluster on the AP's themselves, I've got Several Aruba Instant AP's in my home and have been very happy with them.

[@marmao78]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I would like to suggest if you can comment about Mikrotik. I know it doesnt have a nice UI but I got impress about its flexibility and low price.

[@Soda88]

You can still add local credentials for a super admin account in user management. And if you really don't like UnifiOS, you can downgrade firmware to 1.1.13 via SSH as well. Multisite workarounds: If you have a new CKG2 with UnifiOS preinstalled you can downgrade firmware to create a second site before upgrading to UnifiOS in which case you'll retain multisite option on the latest firmware. If you upgraded single site configuration to UnifiOS, you can backup the configuration, load it up into a self hosted controller in a VM, add another site, back it up on VM and import it back to CloudKey. What bothers me is that you cannot change owner account once you've set it.

[@TheTF01]

It’s pretty clear the direction they are going now. They are keeping the local hosting with the cloud keys and then using the online admin role for remote management. That allows you to manage many locally hosting devices from the cloud. They also seem to be working toward merging their unifi and edge lines of equipment.

[@craigbarnett5992]

Once a company PROVES they will screw/abuse current customers only a fool would have anything to do with them.

[@ralph4370]

Fool me once mentality. I agree. Everyone deserves to be a fool once not twice.

[@realburn6845]

Not sure where the issue is though: this is a cloudkey: cost 200$. Just replace it by the UDM Pro and you got your controller that can manage multiple sites if you need the Unifi protect environment etc... If it is just for networking: it is kind of silly by hosting the controller on a cloudkey. You are far better off with the controller being hosted on a VM, which is much more scalable and powerful...

[@briccimn]

@@realburn6845 The UDM / UDM-Pro DON'T manage multiple sites at all, since their arrival in the market.

[@timramich]

@@realburn6845 The self-hosted controller software will be going away soon enough.

[@realburn6845]

@@timramich That might indeed be. Personally I already have the UDM Pro. Implemented it first for a friend of mine as his network is quite simple. Just still need to figure out how to put my firewall inline with it without breaking my home network for mutliple hours . Web filtering on UDM Pro is sub-par with real Web Proxies you find on some firewalls, also no possibility for AD integration, so I will use the UDM pro basically as controller, router and a small edge firewall with the benefit of having one pane of glass for controlling my network equipment. I basically see it as a first layer of security at the edge of my network, but not as "The" firewall of my network. The UDM will most probably split off traffic to the DMZ based on port forwarding just to hit a second firewall which does VLAN filtering/ACL for the DMZ and which has also WAF functionality. Same story for wifi guest traffic. For more sensitive traffic (PC's, phones, laptops,...) I think I'll do VLAN filtering on the UDM Pro itself (basically to separate traffic coming from PC's from the kids and the devices of the parents. Any VLANS related to lab, or real infrastructure equipment (DC, DNS server, IOT,... name it) will be blocked from internet in bulk on the UDM Pro, but granular filtering (call it the intranet at home if you will) will definitively be done on a more mature firewall. Basically need to migrate my current firewall from being both firewall/router to inline positioning to make this work. Think the setup of having UDM Pro at the edge and then one or more inline firewalls behind it gives you the best of 2 worlds: you have no double natting, a dedicated router+single pane of glass for network management and all whistles and bells that come with real firewall + web proxy :-)

[@zeroibis]

Been using TP-Link for a few years at an SMB without much issues. Literally the only thing I have ever had is a hand full of times over the years I have had to reboot the APs because some users cellphone would not connect. Setup and applying firmware updates has been a breeze.

[@PigMan9080]

Having deployed and used many systems as an IT professional here’s my view: Meraki: Great cloud control, super expensive. Extremely unreliable AP.s. Good for small multi site companies with unlimited budget. Single IT staff to maintain and monitor everything from cloud. Their AP for the price crashes a lot Ruckus: Basic controller but rock solid reliability. In the real world after setting up even after the so call limitations, the main difference is that it doesn’t have any trouble. Never needing reboot, just solid

[@PigMan9080]

I give another real world scenario. One of my projects was to deploy a 50x TV display wall that stream video contents. Meraki struggle after 20 devices connected. Unifi struggled after 30x. It was only Ruckus that was able to handle the load. Unifi is great for the price but not the best at any price. Many companies willing to pay a few hundred more for better equipment

[@ViniciusProvenzano]

I understand some of the ubiquity APs can be flashed with Open-WRT firmware. For those devices it is available OpenWisp 2 - a free software controller, created for Mass deployments ( developed for the city of Rome ). I’ve never tried it, but it can be a good exercise and who knows... Maybe it is a hidden jewel.

[@jeffsadowski]

I'm hoping for an open source competitor where you flash an opensource OS on existing AP devices and connect it to a similar server like Unifi's

[@diwellm]

We use TP-Link with single and multi-site customers that we manage and so far haven't had any real issues. Granted we've not really used UniFi so possibly don't miss what we've never known and from watching your videos I can see that the UniFi feature-set is richer. Also from your videos, we don't have any of the large-scale deployments that you have showcased, so there may be a consideration there. That said when the price-point is taken into consideration TP-Link become a much more compelling argument. Obviously, people can only speak from their own experience but ours has been happy clients and minimal troubleshooting.

[@nicholasfranks2616]

I setup a friend house with Unify , ended up using a NanoPi R2S running a docker for the unify controller . Works well, cheaper than cloud key stuff and no cloud...

[@andrewhelton6119]

Cambium has on on-prem option, however, they only have APs and switches so you'd have to go a different route for a gateway device. I just signed up for a partnership with them and have some NFR devices on order that I plan on testing.

[@artlessknave]

I swear Ruckus has a chart with 3 levels of controller, unleashed, local, and cloud, but i can't seem to find where I saw that.

[@jcnash02]

The big issue I see with Aruba Instant On is there’s no firewall/gateway controlled by the portal. I know the one AP can be a firewall, but the features are very limited on that.

[@Gastell0]

Aruba have awesome features as access point, BLE and optional EnOcean gateway (not on InstantOn though), which is great for both businesses and smart homes. They also have Zigbee dongles, but they cost as much as Unifi AC PRO.

[@ehutch79]

From reading comments on different KZbin videos you’d think none of our access points are going to work when I get to the office Monday morning.

[@matthewcampbell1092]

Maybe Engenius or Grandstream

[@sebastianschmidt2040]

I have 3 Grandstream Access Points since 1 year and very happy😀

[@mdg4664]

I have Unifi at home and have deployed Omada in 3 sites all managed for my controller located at one of the sites. ust put the IP address or URL of the controller into the remote device and it appears in yor cloud controller straight away. All works great from the app or jumping straight in via the static IP of the site hosting the controller. We chose Omada as the sites are mainly outdoors and the product is cheaper and just works!

[@droknron]

Is it true that the self-hosted unifi controller now brings up an alert on login (after updating to the latest version) that recommend a UDM Pro for the best experience? Cause if that's true.. that's worrying.

[@LAWRENCESYSTEMS]

Since 6.0.43 you get this message when adding a new site twitter.com/TomLawrenceTech/status/1352699777310486530

[@droknron]

@@LAWRENCESYSTEMS Do you think they're going to remove multi-site in general? That's kind of the impression I'm getting that they want one device per site.

[@DaHausmeister]

@@droknron if so, they would lose me as a customer (25 sites, 1 Controller). I bought ubiquiti with no cloud in mind.

[@MrBreadoflife]

Aruba sells perpetual capacity licenses for its AP's connected to series 7000 series controllers.

[@nellermann]

Aruba's warranty blows Unifi out of the water as well!

[@tillmannfischer]

@@nellermann But their prices blow up your wallet, compared to Unifi. This is also something nobody seems to remember: Unifi sits at a rather interesting price point in the market, not just in terms of over-time investment, but also the immediate cost of hardware. That may not matter much for large deployments, where you buy hundreds of access points for a single customer, but with smaller customers, being able to deploy the entire hardware necessary for the wireless side of things for a couple thousand euros less than say Meraki is a pretty big deal.

[@okoeroo]

Mikrotik and Draytek come to mind.

[@DrewKollasch]

udm/pro also removed the ability to config snmp w/ this firmware/controller as well

[@Kuth70]

The only other companies I see that offer on site controllers are firewall companies; the firewalls are the controllers. Watchguard, Sonicwall. And they tend to only be for Wifi APs. They do work great for customizing ports as they are firewalls and allow for all the normal customizations you'd expect a business grade firewall to do.

[@davidbeaumier]

I agree that Ubiquiti needs to improve its communication. I expect at least a public statement to be issued when a release contains a significant change like this one. It can be a simple blog post, but please be transparent as much as you can and explain the rationale behind that decision.

[@peternejo2886]

Hey Tom, I like using mikrotiks CAPs and WAPs, they're all managed by mikrotiks CAPsman, and so far, this it the least expensive option, I've installed them for a couple of family members and they love it, it works around same as unifi, but it's all managed in the RouterOS, and since I always use mikrotik as a GW, it's really convenient.

[@martinmuren8757]

Isn't there a self-hosted routeros?

[@peternejo2886]

@@martinmuren8757 Yea there is, you can run it in a VM, but I see no point in that since I need to use something as a GW anyway, powerful mikrotik device that can route a gigabit is pretty cheap, so I see no point in using anything else, plus from where I am from, everything else is way too uncommon and expensive.

[@daryl4225]

Also, for everyone who's complaining about the UDM&UDMPro who upgraded from a USG, I think you completely mistaken the target market it was for - it seems to be built for ppl who are on Amplifi and are looking to move into the Unifi market. Normally for current Unifi customers, the real upgrade path with have been the UXG, and apparently with a self-hosted controller for sure now.

[@lucistarlight]

Newer ruckus unleashed 200.8 actually does support management of their switches, it also increases a lot of limits such as the max aps going from 25 to 128.

[@scottatkinson4519]

One of my sites is a multi-suite building with switching on all floors and layer 2 connectivity between tenants and ISP. Love it for easy management; however, may have to consider another product because UniFi only allows egress bandwidth throttling on switch ports, not ingress. Some tenants are periodically choking the upload for the whole building. I don’t really want to go back to individual direct access to switches just for the traffic shaping capability.

[@rgdfkgncvhtru]

Mikrotik has been working great for me

[@anthonya.1958]

Same. Depending on deployment requirement. But have a larger deploy using CAPSman

[@greghowell9986]

I had a couple original pre-Cisco Meraki MR12 APs still deployed until late 2019. If there was an end of life notification, I missed it, but they showed up as valid devices on my Meraki dashboard.

[@giladshinman6292]

First I want to compliment you on your videos. Your expertise and clear explanations are spot on. Your willingness to share your knowledge is complimentary. Aruba Instant On may require the cloud but Aruba Instant AP does not. I believe Instant AP can be considered a viable, although more expensive, alternative to Unifi. Does not require cloud account or a controller. One AP acts as the local controller. How you want to manage that remotely / centrally with no cloud dependency is another question. You can certainly manage each location individually.

[@stugryffin3619]

5:23 Really really interested to hear you expand on the ways you believe Omada to not be ready to compete with unifi. Does that assessment apply only to commercial contexts or prosumers also? That would be a great vid!

[@Dgeigerd]

I set up some Omada in a Business and at a private Customer, and Unifi at Schools. They feel very similar, but Omada kinda is not as fancy, but does it Job well. Didn't test both of them well tho, i mostly set it up and did a bit of testing.

[@MarcoLandgraf]

I would love to hear what UniFi has to say about it. Possibly it would restore confidence in the users, if we would know the exact reasons and that there is no general change of policy to be expected. The way it is now, I am not sure at all should deploy it in larger installations.

[@matthewhicks6089]

On my business side thankfully our installer was more aware of what was going on & started conversations about migration a year ago. I personally was using unifi to manage my different relatives' home networks & I'm unsure if I believe the solution is to invest in at least a rpi for each home. If they decide to screw the brand & destroy the controller too at least the pis w/ external antenna & batman-ad are a future proof & robust mesh solution

[@jamieplumhoff9164]

I'm sure if Fortinet has been mentioned or not but they do all sorts of stuff. I manage a few sites with their stuff. The company does all sorts of stuff in the networking and cybersecurity space. I've used some of their FortiAP/FortiGate NGFW. I like them but have dealt with some annoying bugs that sometimes never seem to go away. They're support was pretty good though when I needed some firmware help and diving into logs causing a memory leak or something like that. Seemed better than the basic paid Cisco support as well. The Meraki stuff I've used also seems to be pretty stable and was mindblowing to see them in person when they launched and try it out but was too expensive for our needs at the time, we needed 1000s of APs, and switches, routers, bridges etc. Either way, I could go on and on but check them out. Maybe Sophos FW/APs worth mentioning? I've used a few others but not sure they're worth mentioning as actual alternatives to the SDN of Ubiquiti's stuff. I can't say I know of anyone that's doing so much of what Ubiquiti is doing or UniFi line to be specific quite like they are without support costs and closed source.

[@ToddLudwig]

Aruba doesn't require a cloud subscription. I use IAD-305s at my house and it has a built-in controller. I don't pay any licensing fees and still get firmware updates regularly.

[@jgould30]

I've used ubiquiti for a long time, even after our company was purchased. But recently we started our IT integration with our massive Corporate entity. So now we are moving to all Cisco gear. I never thought I'd say this put I'm actually happy so I don't have to worry about the BS happening over at Ubiquiti in the last few years.

[@NickF1227]

I'm jumping ship to Aruba with an on-site controller :)

[@rubenschoups7937]

Aint aruba much more expensive ?

[@NickF1227]

@@rubenschoups7937 retail? Yes. however, 90 dollars on eBay for the controller and 105 dollars on eBay for their equivalent of a AP AC nanoHD. (ap-335)

[@rubenschoups7937]

@@NickF1227 if you go ebay agree, but i cant put ebay stuff at customers. Just checked the ap335 would be 1080 without vat 😅

[@NickF1227]

@@rubenschoups7937 depends on the customer too. Like I have a bunch of small customers I've put used enterprise gear at, and at my full time gig I'm a k12 so I get deep discounts with eRate, so I'm not paying retail anyway.

[@jasoncostomiris767]

CloudKey was always a giant waste anyhow. You're better off with a 4 or 8GB Raspberry Pi 4. For uber longevity, get the new Argon40 M.2 SSD case. You can load Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on the Pi, boot from an SSD (much longer life than an SD Card), and run UniFi in a Docker container with minimal hassle. You can educate yourself in a day how to get the job done. Now you've got room to run other apps on the Pi. Upgrades are terribly easy (pull latest container version, stop current container, rename current container, instantiate new container, later delete old container).

[@vPeteWalker]

I would love to see a serious competitor to Ubiquity. I don't love the direction they are going, and some of the decisions they've made. I don't even care if that comes with a monthly or yearly cost for excellent support. I don't mind paying more for the best, and I am just not blown away by any company geared toward SOHO, small business, etc. I want a guaranteed support length, with EOS/EOL/etc. spelled out up front, no games, no losing features, no surprises. Can there seriously not be a company like this out there?

[@TheChris69er]

You seem to be describing Cisco Meraki, they have rock solid products with excellent support. But like most things in life you pay for what you get 😀

[@telifox]

Is Sonic Wall viable option? I just purchased a Sonic Wall Router for like $250. This devices are pretty pricey though and their parent company is HELL/DELL. I own Ubiquity products and I like the enterprise level SDN control without having to pay the big price of a Sonic Wall.

[@James-pt1fp]

Tom, can you please do a video on the privacy implications of joining a ubiquiti device with the cloud? Do you know if they send browsing/network use telemetry back to their servers?

[@TWMist]

4:40 there is local management ton Aruba IAP they have a builtin Virtual controller

[@padraics]

Aruba instant on switches are fantastic! Cheaper than comparable unifi, more features, local device management, real support, not running perpetually beta firmware. No cloudkey equivalent, but you have stacking on the 1960 series.

[@fghtresvbjy543]

stacking is a killer feature. I`m looking on Ubiquiti, and just cannot understand how do they release "Enterprise" line switches (25G!!) without MLAG or stacking. In their vision, mission critical means adding a battery inside of the switch. what a hell do they smoke?

[@guidefortheblindguy4319]

Good afternoon Tom, thank you for all the videos and comments you give to expand our knowledge of different technologies and platforms. My question is; for the free downloadable version of Unifi Universal Controller, are these customers affected by this change? I am in the process to upgrade my home network and I was researching Unifi to buy the UniFi Dream Machine Pro and the UniFi Switch PRO 24 PoE. However, now with the new changes am hesitant to move forward with the buy.

[@matthieuducorps8729]

I think Aruba also propose the same scalability as unifi. You can have locally controled APs without cloud requirements

[@ifuoto8815]

Im curious, what is ur opinion regarding TP-link Omada? thank you

[@stugryffin3619]

5:23

[@mzac23]

I’m surprised you didn’t mention Aruba Instant (not InstantOn) which runs the controller in the APs as well. There is also full fledged ArubaOS controllers and also Cisco controllers but those start to get $$$$!

[@KentWillumsen]

Will be a matter of time before networking goes open source

[@jeffreyschlieve590]

Tom, I just ran into an issue with a UniFi switch (and the support team) I purchased 2 lite 8port switches, I had a problem with one that would adopt and then just disappear from the network. I then adopted a second one, and it worked and continues to work. the 1st one after much resetting and emails back and forth with UniFi support, just will not stay visible to the controller. UniFi answer to the problem was that its my controller. (raspberry Pi Hosted) and that I should choose a "supported hardware" device.

[@markamber1480]

Fortinet - despite your reporting about a year ago of their hard-coding flaws (and to your point fortinet has a robust history of reporting updates to their customers unlike UBNT). Fortigate products are dense. It’s hard to penetrate ones brain into their immense product stack with probably 100 different Forti*** brands. But they do offer on site control. The firewalls are the Golightly with security features robust enough for most enterprises. But the WAPs are good too and management is done on their hardware. Downside as I mentioned would be your knowledge of their hard coded keys, also they tend to make things a bit too complex when ordering with so many products. It’s worth a check though. Fortinet definitely gives off a more “grown up company” vibe than UBNT

[@satamototo]

I hope TP-LINK watching this to push OMADA further :) Mikrotik can works as a CAPsMAN bot it's a NO-GO if you need NAT reflections on port mappings...

[@karelkrobath2794]

I have 15 Sites with Mikrotik CAPsMAN running and quite happy with it....

[@satamototo]

@@karelkrobath2794 , they are good for WiFi stack of the kind "set and forget", but in a corporate enviroment the case is different...

[@ronaldhofman1726]

6.043 is the newest and i can stil add sites on my windows controller so this can also on a raspberry pi or intel nuc or server , multisite should not be hosted on a cloud key.

[@Bosneanu]

That was probably the thought process of Ubiquiti as well, since you cannot scale out a cloud key, as easily as a self hosted UniFi install (regardless if on-prem or cloud). But we will have to wait and see, if further news emerge in the near future.

[@jerryjaro4881]

Cambium Networks, they have been know to use same AP hardware, less aggressive to grow, more reliable

[@colinterry7261]

So I may or may not be out of place here, but I am looking to setup a whole-home network for the house that I am closing on in the near future. So this means a NAS, maybe a couple of switches, one or two access points and about 6 cameras; plus all of the miscellaneous network devices that my family uses. Is it manageable to not have a single dashboard to manage everything? I know it would be more convenient to have everything controlled from one place, but Ubiquiti's business model concerns me moving forward. So, this means I would need to go with a more pieced together solution, and lose on the benefits of a nicely integrated ecosystem. Any thoughts on this? My biggest worry is getting locked into an ecosystem, having the business model change significantly, and have thousands of dollars(That's a lot for me) of equipment to try to find replacements for because said business model change isn't sustainable for me.

[@LAWRENCESYSTEMS]

There are always trade offs, I still like the UniFi line up, just not their routers or UDM/UDM Pro.

[@jasonphilbrook4332]

TPLink has improved greatly for their normal individual home/homeoffice APs. Better than any other $50-150 non-controller AP. Their mesh stuff is half baked. Haven't tried their managed things yet.

[@strikesbac]

Interesting reading the comments on Omada, lots of people seem to have had a poor experience with it. Personally we have been using it at a few small offices and it’s been rock solid, better than our old UniFi deployments. We are using OC200s which compared to the Gen1 CKs are a dream. They don’t shit the bed on a hard shutdown. I can’t comment on their switching and routing get as we won’t touch that. The one big advantage of the TP Link APs is that they have their own web management console so you don’t have to use Omada. Opposed to unifi having to configure with a controller or a phone app.

[@vitelliu5]

I can't say with 100% certainty, but I think some of the issue may be because the "Omada" name is a recent change. I tried the TP-Link offering a few years ago and it was not called Omada and there appears to be a lot of legacy equipment / migration stuff from the old thing into Omada. For example, I had a TP-Link switch that the model number was listed as supporting Omada, but if you dig into it you find out you need to flash a special firmware to the switch to make it Omada compatible. Then on top of that my specific hardware revision of that model was explicitly NOT compatible with Omada in their documentation. This all leads me to believe there's a somewhat messy transition happening to get the Omada stuff up and running. On the TP-Link site there is a very short list of supported hardware which all appear to be newer products that were just released / releasing soon. However if you dig into the support section of their site there is a lot of legacy equipment that can be flashed to be "compatible" with Omada and some carry limitations. The single switch and AP I purchased came from the supported hardware list and were not legacy pieces of hardware that were reflashed and I haven't noticed any problems yet.

[@wesgould1]

The UDM Pro is similar in that they removed multi-site support (actually never had it) and required a cloud account to set up.

[@wamote6867]

great comment about Ubiquiti and I really hope that's the self hosted controller do stay with us with the UDM and.... Would love to see a interview with the CEO.

[@melvintan7143]

Engenius is similar to unifi. they even have similar cloud key function . Do have a look.

[@k.chriscaldwell4141]

Watch out. Engenius likes to put out defective products that they hope they can fix via updates in the future.

[@06kellyjac]

If they know not to do it to the self hosted controller why did they even do it to the cloudkey in the first place? You always need to be able to threaten to move supplier or they get complacent, pull features, and raise prices on a whim.

[@StephenMcGregor1986]

EnGenius ???

[@mpxz999]

I often hear people say “No, don’t buy those no-name Chinese brands! Their hardware constantly needs to call home! You can’t trust them!” And now... Well, this kind of abrupt change isn’t so different. I wonder if Ubiquity was bought out by a Chinese mother company now, too?

[@Wahinies]

It's kind of analogous to ISPs warning not to use public DNS like Google because "they sell your browsing data!!!1" Then sells your browsing data.

[@NoMaam]

You should write „commercial“ in the description

[@Mico605]

Main problems with cloud A) You need internet connection to use it. B) You're putting your trust into someone else's company.

[@anchises666]

And depending on the market situation they can start charging you fees for the privilege of using their cloud at any time.

[@EViL3666]

7:46 ... Lawrence's version of "Pretty please, don't screw us over.."

[@RavingMad]

Hi Tom, how is Engenius in this space? They have the engenius sky local controller management. I've found their APs indoor, outdoor and p2p to be bullet proof (managed as individual APs in home environment). I have no experience with their sky controller. Also how about Mikrotik? Can their CAPsMan achieve similar functionality? Yes Mikrotik WAPs aren't offering the bleeding edge technology but I've heard good things about their CAPsMan (again no experience with this local management or in this case the WAPs). TP-Link has a new SDN labeled updated Omada version offering and also I've seen literature from QNAP with SDN offering promising multi-site management. Would like to hear your thoughts on these as well. Thanks.

[@SB-qm5wg]

am I the only one that hates the 'cloud?'

[@shashankb1271]

Atleast the networking equipment should be kept local which handles our data or is the gateway to our home . It should be totally localised and just connect to the internet for updates

[@Alan.livingston]

The cloud has pro’s and con’s. In my experience hybrid is the way to pitch for *many* businesses. Core infrastructure maybe shouldn’t be in the cloud and flexible workloads maybe shouldn’t be local.

[@Ressy66]

you're far from alone, i detest it,, one thing richard stallman said that I agree with, the cloud is just a hyped up marketing term, the clueless thinks WOW, cloud... but cloud means simply "someone elses hardware stemming from the old POTS" so ummm hello, used web hosting in the past 25/30 years? ... *sigh*

[@lavenderfox2430]

Nope

[@KubedPixel]

'cloud' and 'subscription models' REALLY get my back up

[@macexpert7247]

I have my own controller in the cloud and host a bunch of networks. Planning on using Untangled router with UniFi switches and AP’s. Any thoughts?