Unimog RV build #11 Flooring, underfloor heating and formaldehyde

[@ProspectingLife]

I watched this 3 years ago but since then I cringe when I see what products people use to fit out small living spaces. Most of the time it’s to save money. Should I ever be lucky enough to build an over lander I’ll be sure to think about off-gassing and what materials I use for fit out. Thanks for the video. 👍🏼

[@brendontait6968]

It's crazy right... the worst part is that most things we interact with these days are more insidious than we assume....

[@brennonmorning9682]

The offgassing is so important in such a small sealed box. Thank you for bringing this topic up!! I love your videos!

[@brendontait6968]

Thanks Brennon, yeah... for some reason it's something that most don't consider.

[@fcbrants]

Great video!! I'm remodeling a 23 year old motorhome & replacing the flooring, so loads of useful & (potentially) life saving info here, thank you!!

[@brendontait6968]

Hey Frank, glad it was helpful 😁

[@patrickmaloney6440]

Hey Brendon, great video - very interesting about the off-gassing of the materials - I had no idea. I particularly like the way your gadgets do exactly what they shouldn't!

[@brendontait6968]

Most people assume if the materials aren't safe, the govt wouldn't allow them to be sold. That is just not the case, I'm going to use this platform to spread the word as best as I can... yeah I fully laugh everytime I spend money on some shitty chinese product and it doesnt do what it promises!

[@DesertTuna]

Haha you legend Brendan can't thankyou enough

[@DesertTuna]

Amazing craftsmanship you deffinetly deserve multiple awards and trades love your thoroughness

[@sagelillyput2758]

Hi glad I found your channel .look forward to seeing more from you.😃😃

[@sydnet851]

You are one smart man, and have many great tips for van community at large, you a probably a busy dude and dont have time to post more videos or work on the MOG which is a shame as your channel deserves to a larger. Oh well i will keep watching this build, love the MOG as well.

[@brendontait6968]

Thanks for that, you are correct about being too busy... I'm making an effort tho, summer is coming and am keen to get away.

[@themechanicslab]

Cool video as always. I like your style with looking beyond the face value of things. lot of people don't bother these days or arent eductaed enough to look. Thanks for the information.

[@brendontait6968]

Thanks, glad you appreciated it

[@kolobara08]

"Consider subscribing" - That's the first one I see one of those and like most people here, I have seen a loads of YT video. Subscribed because of it!!

[@brendontait6968]

Great... I'll do that more often... cheers!

[@equestrianalways6132]

Another great installment. The other MOG channels still haven't started the accommodation part yet. I just started building out my isuzu trooper for summer and used untreated plywood and adose glue for holding down the carpet. They should have a warning label on these wood products. Keep up the good work

[@brendontait6968]

Thanks, well that's a bit embarrassing for all those other MOG channels! Unfortunately you can't rely on government and have to use your own resources to determine what is going to be healthy for you. As an example, asbestos was found to cause mesothelioma in 1911 and wasn't banned for some 70 years later. In the 50s, a govt funded study showed that xraying pregnant women caused childhood cancer. It took 25 years for the govt to act on that study and restrict xray exposure to pregnant women.

[@josephstevens3357]

Brendon, your videos are so informative! Really good!

[@brendontait6968]

Thanks Joseph

[@ECE2424]

How are u SO smart?!!😎 Excellent video my friend. U always teach me a few things. 👍👍👍

[@brendontait6968]

Hey Erick, thanks and glad you learned something... that's the objective of my channel to spread information. I emailed you the other week, did you get it?

[@gregor8323]

Very informative and useful video many thanks and all the best from Poland ;-)

[@brendontait6968]

Thanks, I wasn't sure if people would listen. Hearing that something could be unhealthy in peoples environment makes them want to be dismissive and ignore it. All the best to you too =)

[@DontCrashme]

So much detail and information your a genius! keep up the good work and thanks for all the knowledge you are passing on to us all 💯

[@brendontait6968]

Cheers, will make a bit more effort in the coming year.

[@paulluggar5964]

Love your technical explanations and considered choices during your build. 👍 I regularly see floors laid and wood battens attached the floor with insulation between them. I think the battens are not required and make extra work and weight for no gain? If you lay a sheet of insulation on the floor and then lay a thin hard surface on it you will find it can take great weight without deforming at all. The only place where extra strength is required is on an unsupported edge. Obviously there are different build methods but for a simple floor ditch the battens and save weight/time/cost and cold bridges if its bloody freezing like the UK! Looking forward to more videos soon I hope! 👍🙃

[@brendontait6968]

Thanks Paul, yeah... the batten thing, I don't live in a particularly cold climate so I haven't given thermal bridging too much thought yet. I still have the option of insulating under the deck if I need to in the future. I think you're right, with some insulation types. I've used pir foam which I don't think could handle this sort of thing. The foam is quite brittle and I think with repetitive stress, it's likely to turn the foam into dust. I think with polystyrene, polyethylene type foams your idea would work well. (Maybe a bit of squeaking when you walk around)

[@mikespark72]

Brendon, you are the bomb! I subscribed, I hope you keep bringing out this amazing content!

[@brendontait6968]

Thanks Mike, will do my best!

[@verlicht]

Just wanted to let you know that most woods create plenty of formaldehyde in the first years after they are cut. Many real wooden floors offgas plenty of formaldehyde. And there are also many Vinyl floors that have 0 formaldehyde offgassing, which is what I prefer to use since a few years. You do have to check the specsheets and/or test them for formaldehyde. Great info on the topic, I know you made plenty of people think about their next building materials because of this video.

[@brendontait6968]

Yeah, European floors typically don't outgas tho... bc it's restricted. While there is unlikely to be much formaldehyde come from vinyl, there is likely to be others. I might do a future video on this. Thanks for the comment, it's not a topic many are interested in but I think it is super valuable to be aware of. Cheers

[@verlicht]

@@brendontait6968 In videomaking, do 80% on the topic your audience is interested in and do 20% completely experimental. So don't mind putting a video up that your current audience has no interest in, just do it.

[@brendontait6968]

Thanks... what you may have been eluding to above is that natural woods release formaldehyde too? While that is true (I think as an artifact of heating, drying and processing). The amounts are quite low compared with typical 'engineered' timbers. We release and produce formaldehyde too (quite a lot more if you drink diet sodas) in low levels it's quite safe, when it starts to add up from different sources is when it can become problematic.

[@kairogers5169]

@@brendontait6968 I'd be very interested in a video about this. I'm been installing quite a few Vinyl Lifeproof Floors and I hate the smell of the flooring as I cut it. I've been looking at some of Cali Bamboo's products, like their Natural Fossilized Eucalyptus T&G for a replacement. But I don't know enough about off gasing to even know where to start. The Lifeproof might even be okay I'm not even sure. Would love to be able to learn a little bit more about this. Thanks so much for your time.

[@kairogers5169]

@@brendontait6968 Also, the hardware engineering on that formaldehyde meter is incredibly cool. Any chance you have a link or contact for the engineer who makes them? I would love to purchase one. I've been increasingly concerned with the lack of attention to off gasing and effects of using certain materials in builds and I'm really trying to create a safe and sustainable materials list for all of my van builds. Thanks so much again.

[@He110World]

Hadn't really considered the possibility of toxins during a build, I'm naive to think we have sufficient standards that prevent certain materials from entering the market - to some degree, though I've been told along while ago that the new car smell most people love, is actually pretty harmful. Appreciate the talk on formaldehyde - certainly more conscious of what to use now, so thanks - seems good timing with the van bought yesterday, it will help my selection of materials/products.

[@brendontait6968]

Hey... congratulations on your purchase! I think most people assume if it was dangerous then govts wouldn't allow it to be sold. That is just not the case. It is something taken fairly seriously in Europe tho with their REACH standards. Yeah, the new car smell is mainly plasticizers that are put into the dash and panels. The plastisizer is not molecularly bound to the plastic and is free to leave (when the plastic gets old it cracks partly because the majority of the plastisizer has sublimated out). You'll also notice cars nowdays get a white film on the inside of the windscreen. That is the emissions from the plastic deposing onto the screen. Feel free to shout out if you want advice on materials with regards to their emissions etc.

[@samuelkatherinediozarago7692]

@@brendontait6968 Those plasticisers also called anti ozone(ozone cracking) agents. What makes cracking usually for plastics is ozone in the atmosphere hence they add additives. Tyres (dry rott-ozone cracking) are the most vulnerable but you can actually seal the surface,keep the plastic moist and drive regularly to keep them from cracking..OLD PLASTICS used to have tonnes of additives hence they lasted a very long time but never rubbish will not go more than 10 years,even fire hoses!! (planned obsolescence!).Coming back to cars, they actually have ABS,PP and multiple different types but much much safer then old. By the time they are out of the factory, they will be pretty much free of all VOCs..Also UV light cracks them severely as well. those anti Smell ozone generators, NEVER run them in your vehicle if you dont want your plastics to crack. i'd be much more worried about micro plastic digestion (PFC pollution as well) which can directly go to lymph nodes.. (: Great video Brendon.Keep Em coming

[@He110World]

@@brendontait6968 Thanks, I'll buy one of the recommended Formaldehyde meters and make an attempt to use natural materials (wools/woods) where possible but i'll certainly pay more attention to the manufacturing processes of anything else needed.

[@brendontait6968]

Great, they hide formaldehyde in a lot of products because it is so cheap. I'll be following up with more videos on other toxins in our environment. I'm actually quite surprised how well this video was received, most people would rather not know.

[@samuelkatherinediozarago7692]

@@brendontait6968 keep Em coming. 👍👍👍

[@audigit]

Thanks for your work in this!

[@brendontait6968]

Cheers James, it was something I didn't think people cared about... but might follow up with a bit more depth

[@MistaTerps]

Glad someone is addressing this issue thanks, will you be doing a video on the rest of the underfloor heating install?

[@brendontait6968]

Thanks Toby, yes will deff be doing more. Tho we are coming into summer and getting it ready to go away so prolly not high on the list. Cheers

[@chrisskelly6408]

@@brendontait6968 you could pump cool water through the pipes to cool down the room!

[@brendontait6968]

@@chrisskelly6408 hey Chris, yeah.. you could. But I'd be concerned about the floor getting wet, also... the cold wouldn't rise from the floor very well. I will chuck a DIY aircon unit in the truck at some point.

[@chrisskelly6408]

@@brendontait6968 ah yes good point! Good luck with the build. Looking good so far. Hopefully u can get more parts now lockdowns almost over!

[@peterfisher541]

Hey Brendon great info as allways ..im doing a coaster using alloy in cabinets floor and floor batten ( hollow 25 x 50 rectangle..pir insulation..2mm alloy sheet ) would you throw a vapour barrier on top of the battens and pir board or just glue the alloy sheet straight on to the battens and alloy tape the edges..i have filled the hollow rectangle with foam cheers pete

[@brendontait6968]

I don't really know what I'm doing.. but I'd just stick the alloy down (gluing alloy is difficult so I'd add some screws). Tho you are using alloy battens? They will conduct heat quite well?

[@bubbagump150]

Do you think the tile will warm as much as the wood floor? Happy your back on the build, I enjoy your low key analytical style!

[@brendontait6968]

Hope so, the area of the floor where the tiles are, I've put the tubes in at 100mm centers and on the bamboo I've got them spaced at 150mm. So should be 50% more heat on the tiles? I'm curious to see what will happen with the bamboo tho bc the instructions clearly state not for underfloor heating... fingers crossed!

[@MitchOfCanada]

great video thanks! what are you using to heat the pipe

[@brendontait6968]

Hey, most likely a diesel burner that will also heat the hot water

[@PatrickKQ4HBD]

How do you plan to keep cool in the summertime? Open windows and a cold drink? AC?

[@brendontait6968]

Hey Patrick, I took it away over summer and it wasn't too bad it gets a good natural breeze blowing through. I will put AC in it for more challenging environments.

[@JockeSelin]

Much appreciated, Brendon!

[@brendontait6968]

Glad you found it useful =)

[@MiniLuv-1984]

It's been over a year now Brendon, how well is the underfloor heating working? When you were doing this I asked myself, why not lay down nichrome wire instead and run it electrically?

[@brendontait6968]

Hey Benny, I haven't got it hooked up or running - no need at this point. Initially I thought I'd be limited on electricity - and that may still be the case over winter. If I were to do that style I'd probably go with copper tape. I'm actually going to use copper 'heating elements' on my water lines etc. Copper can work quite well as a heating element when you want to spread the heat over a large area.

[@kaoskev]

I would guess the off-gassing would be strongest in the first month or two and then trail down to near zero. I've always wondered if this is true and welcome any input.

[@brendontait6968]

No doubt the formaldehyde fume would subside over time. Many of the fema trailers are over 10 years old now and are still exceed safe levels by a high margin. With that being the case, I would think it will take a very long time for levels to drop to negligible amounts.

[@blackfoxfarmva2725]

So two concerns 1. Kingspan has proven to be highly flammable and 2. Kingspan is fabricated from petroleum derivatives and is quite toxic. It seems there is no safe, non-toxic foam board therefore I am struggling to find a safe installation process for the hydronic heated floor. Any advice? Great videos! Thanks for all the information shared!

[@brendontait6968]

Hey... thanks for the comment. I will be doing more videos on outgassing products in the future. I'm not concerned about products made from petroleum distillates, as an example.. one of the safest raw plastics available is polyethylene (my water tanks are made from it) is cracked out of crude oil. I havent tested any outgassing of it, however... it has good performance and I have covered it in aluminum so am fairly certain that any gassing is unlikely to make it into the living space. As far as flammability, I believe kingspan is fire rated to insurance standards? Another foam to consider is PET foam (recycled coke bottles).

[@WoodRanger138]

Thank You Brother

[@brendontait6968]

Welcome

[@AdrianGalindoHome]

G'day from aus mate, great vid, enjoyed the LTO vids too, any reason you didn't go 'AAA' grade plywood for the floor?? Maybe a shellac over?

[@brendontait6968]

Hey Adrian, thanks. I just used non treated structural ply coated the bottom with bitumen undersea and coated the top with epoxy resin thinned out with alchohol. The isopropyl makes it soak into the timber quite well.

[@CosmicSeeker69]

Gosh Brendan - I sure hope that you did leave an expansion gap around that floor.... I put a very nice engineered wood floor in my truck camper back 22 years ago - first (English) winter and it looked like Uluru....

[@brendontait6968]

Yeah, you can see on the sides where I packed the foam cord. I will actually do a future vid on my heating and explain the expansion of timber products. It's not as straightforward as you'd think.

[@patrickday4206]

I'm a carpenter and off gassing is a big deal and even the us epa agency released a warning on it's web page buried though few years ago that 70's built homes had dangerous levels of off gassing and people who owned them were suggested to leave a window cracked and open doors and windows when able.

[@brendontait6968]

Sad thing is that I believe the situation is worse now than ever before. (More concerning things than formaldehyde).

[@DesertTuna]

Thankyou 👍 👍

[@lindsaymorton724]

Hi Brendon, have you thought about making and installing a leveling system. I'd think with the height you're working with, being off-level will appear excessive. I'd love to see how you'd do it.

[@brendontait6968]

Hey Lindsay, The height doesn't really matter, if the ground is a 2 degree slope, the interior will still be sitting at 2 degrees. I have considered leveling but not done any work on the design yet

[@Hipporider]

Why not use a diesel heater inside? I've heard they're common for Campers

[@brendontait6968]

Yeah, I have some heater ideas and will likely integrate one also. cheers

[@gregorythomas333]

It looks awesome!

[@brendontait6968]

Thanks Gregory

[@absolute757]

How effective is the floor heating in freezing temps? Is it enough to keep it heated?

[@samuelkatherinediozarago7692]

Eeeeeepic.Keep Em coming.

[@brendontait6968]

Thx, pretty sure I'll run out of steam soon tho. Am deff going to make more of an effort to get progress made tho

[@samuelkatherinediozarago7692]

@@brendontait6968 Anything and everything mate. I like the way you approach and research stuff. Learned a lot..Thou I tried the expanding foam trick and it didnt work.maybe a video on that would be good. And unimogs details(engine,how it runs etc) would be another good video .. Keep posting regularly.

[@nicokypreos]

Great stuff thanks

[@brendontait6968]

Thanks Nico

[@greengooseman]

Did you ever do a follow up video on how the underflooring performed?

[@brendontait6968]

Hey gooseman, sorry I haven't yet, but will do in the near future. Thanks

[@sidkwakkel]

@@brendontait6968 Anecdotally, is it working as you'd hoped?

[@jamest.5001]

PVC- poison vinyl chloride! I'm thinking about doing something similar to my smallish offgrid house, use 1/2" pex tubing, between the floor joists, then insulate, use with a woodstove boiler, out side in its own tiny house, with a few radiators also, it would be nice to NOT have cold floors to walk on!!! I don't really like carpet, and don't want to cover my 70 year old hardwood! Its about 1200 sqft, just a rough uneducated guess! It's a old house without insulation, I'm thinking about doing blow in in the attic, maybe foam board outside, and make foamcrete block for the exterior, then stucco.. But that's a big job! We only really need heat about 3-4 months here, a small heater will take the chill the rest of the time, I'm thinking a thermal storage, with a combo of hearing methods will work for heating, use solar thermal, a dump load for excess solar, and a wood stove boiler, to heat the water storage tank, 100-200 gallons, heated to 180° or so, well insulated should hold heat for a while, with about 4small radiators, and a few fans and pumps, should take the chill away, with the storage may last 12 hours before cooled to the point its useless , around 85°-90°F, maybe 110° may still give enough heat, if heated to just below boiling, a vacuum insulated storage tank would be much better, but costly, use something like computer fans on the radiators, with the tiny pumps, up to around 500-700ma at 12v for the pumps, it's only about 5 litre/hour, with 4x 120mm fans, running just fast enough to move the air, should only pull 1.5 amps, with a thermostat control. I have alot of floor repair to do, if I didn't have hardwood in good shape, I'd replace it with concrete, with thermal heating inside! That's a big job! So ill keep it simple! Ha-ha, if it can be called simple!

[@brendontait6968]

Hey, yeah. Will likely do some testing on PVC soonish

[@supersimo4105]

Hi Brendan. In Ireland and installing underfloor heating in a Merc 814. Have you tried the heating yet? Does the aluminium spread the heat? Thanks

[@brendontait6968]

Hey, not yet, I'll likely do an update video on that shortly

[@mitchelljermaine]

Curious, why didn't you go with a cork core bamboo?

[@brendontait6968]

I'm sure there are lots of things I could have used. I've never actually heard of cork core tho.

[@murraymadness4674]

That vinyl tubing seems really small and restrictive, is it going to xfer heat very well? I would have done some testing on it, particularly that its embedded in insulation. I am going to do electric heat, can always run a generator on gas or propane.

[@brendontait6968]

Yeah, not vinyl. I agree to an extent. I am optimistic it will work. I dont think the heat transfer across the tube walls will be any issue... moreso how much water will flow thru.

[@bonezed]

yeah, I think electric would have been better, especially considering the size of the battery bank. pros and cons to both :)

[@suprstu]

Hey Brandon. Just found you and really enjoying your vids. What part of nz are you, fellow kiwi here.

[@brendontait6968]

Thanks Stu. Auckland here

[@patrickday4206]

Hey what product did you use for grout and is it holding up against cracking?

[@brendontait6968]

Hey Patrick, it was just a Dunlop flexible grout. Seems to be holding up fine.

[@o0motorhead0o]

We got new carpet laid in our house and the off-gassing was so terrible it made me so ill 😔 it took a couple of weeks before the smell had gone 🙄

[@brendontait6968]

It can be quite overwhelming sometimes rite... the big thing is that unless you qualify exactly what is coming out of your furnishings etc. You won't know the long term effects of it will be. This is something that I'm going to dig deeper into on my channel. Do you have a snippet of carpet that I could analyze for you?

[@gabakusa]

Do they sell it on amazon? Are you for hire ? I need help designing my rv van conversion

[@brendontait6968]

I assume they are on amazon. hard to find an accurate meter tho. yeah sure, I can help you out. msg me on insta

[@tedleer9296]

Why not use electric floor heating? There is foil thinner than 1mm.

[@brendontait6968]

Where does all the electric come from when it is bitter cold and raining for days? Electric is easy and cheap, but can be thirsty on battery. I have a few ways of heating the water - hopefully they will work...

[@tedleer9296]

@@brendontait6968 that’s true, curious to see what you have in mind! Heat pump will probably be most efficient, but also needs electricity, but burning diesel is also not efficient hahaha:)