Unlocking the Secrets of the Lumber Yards: No BS Guide from a Pro

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Join us on a journey to the lumber yard as we uncover the secrets to getting the best prices on wood. Learn how to calculate board footage, select the right wood species, and navigate through the different grades and sizes. Whether you're a seasoned woodworker or just starting out, this video will give you the knowledge and confidence to make the most of your lumber yard experience. Don't forget to subscribe for more no-bs woodworking tips and tricks
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Timestamps
No BS Intro - Lumber Dealers are Not Retail Friendly 0:00
What to Bring With You to the Hardwood Dealer 1:00
How Much Wood do You Need - Calculating Board Feet 1:54
Wood Grading s1s, s2s, s3s, s4s, r1e. 4/4, 6/4, 8/4 3:53
What is the Face and Edge Grain Going to Look Like? 7:07
What Selecting Your Wood Actually Looks Like 7:59
Other Places to Find Hardwood 9:27
How to Find a Hardwood Dealer 9:42
No Bs Outro 10:10
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[@katzmosestools]

*Support what we do at* KMTools.com *Lumber Board Foot Calculator* kmtools.com/pages/linear-board-foot-calculator *Wood Movement Calculator* kmtools.com/pages/wood-movement-calculator *Wood Movement Explained Video* kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4DVYWl_bq-id7csi=VtRfEx7y0ZrBajWN *Wood Movement Blog* kmtools.com/blogs/news/planning-for-wood-movement *Hardwoods Inc in SLO -* hardwoods-inc.com/ *The Katz-Moses Woodworkers with Disabilities Fund ABOUT* kmtools.com/pages/kmww-charity

[@davidpietranczyk]

@katzmosestools how much extra thickness do you generally account for? If you need 3/4 Inch material for a project, are you buying 4/4 or 5/4? Thanks 🙏

[@donaldkern2364]

Even though I've got 40+ years in advanced woodworking and am an engineer, I always like listening to Jonathan's advice. He simplifies and clarifies without oversimplifying. Jonathan's a great resource for novices and experienced woodworkers alike. Thank you, Jonathan!

[@katzmosestools]

Means a lot. Thank you

[@Mike-dn4ju]

Possibly the best in the segment/genre

[@DominikusTV]

Someone said that if you can't explain to a twelve year old, then you probably don't understand the subject fully.

[@donaldkern2364]

@@DominikusTV It was actually Albert Einstein who said that but used "your grandmother" which is kind of both ageist and sexist!

[@thomasnichols7788]

Your No BS segments are the best out there. Keep it up!

[@travisgray9421]

The entire No BS Guide series is absolutely fantastic! I thoroughly enjoy watching them and sending them around to my friends and family who are also hobbyist woodworkers. For what it is worth, here in Boston we have Boulter Plywood that will happily cut any board to any length; if it is less than about 5-6', it goes in the "offcuts" pile that is sold for the same board feet price as the main lumber.

[@richpeggyfranks490]

Thanks for a great video for beginners. I had to learn this "on the fly". I can recommend Austin Fine Lumber in Austin Texas. It looks just like the lumber yard where you shot the video. They will cut off short pieces of lumber, but the leftover piece that goes back in stock needs to be over 8' long. They have a scrap bin where a hobby woodworker can find a gold-mine of wood. Recently, for $200, I was able to purchase a 12' trailer load of rough 8/4 walnut, oak, cherry, maple, pecan and sapele from an estate sale. There were some 18" wide slabs. The trailer was completely full and piled up 3 or 4 feet above the side rails. The wood had been stickered in a dry barn for 20 years. Thanks.

[@katzmosestools]

That sounds amazing! I love Austin.

[@EthanReesor]

Austin Fine Lumber is great. There's also Woodcraft nearby - they have a wider selection of exotic woods than Fine Lumber, though Woodcraft is more expensive and more suited to turning and small projects.

[@caliban5401]

Can confirm. AFL is also dangerously close to the Asmbly makerspace.

[@whatwouldwesleycook9759]

That’s where I go too!

[@jamesp2127]

This was great! The lumber yard near me is pretty friendly but like you suggest, they don’t really want to hold your hand when high volume customers are coming through. Great tips here.

[@macgarth]

Action packed 10 minutes! Thanks for putting this together.

[@robertmillstein8916]

Thanks for this video. Also, really appreciate that you are helping disabled woodworkers. I'll make sure to buy plans to support this effort

[@umchoyka]

Also commonly a good idea to bring a moisture meter to ensure the piece you're buying isn't too green. Otherwise, this is a great reference

[@katzmosestools]

Agreed

[@brettjohnson9453]

I’ve found calling a lumber yard beforehand and asking when their typical quiet times are and explaining that I’m a beginner very helpful. At one store the owner said to come in about 30 min before they opened and he took me through so much of the process of selecting timber etc

[@katzmosestools]

That’s such a good idea

[@danielbacon4821]

I usually spend under $1000 when I go, so small potatoes compared to others, but the staff at Moore Newton in San Leandro, CA are amazing and always eager to help you out, regardless of your spending amount. Thanks for the great video, JKM!

[@AlexKrippner]

Man I’m really sad I wasn’t really into woodworking when I went to Cal Poly SLO, this would have been a cool place to visit.

[@MCsCreations]

Thanks a bunch for all the info and tips, Jonathan! 😊 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@katzmosestools]

Thank you! Will do and you too!

[@jamesmosley7794]

I love this series. This will definitely be helpful. We have a local lumber yard in my area about an hour away, and it's a beautiful country drive. I like to use my scraps for small fun family projects.

[@andyrogers8759]

Thanks for putting this video together! It is really helpful to a new wannabe woodworker like myself.

[@katzmosestools]

Glad you enjoyed it! Cheers my friend.

[@bobbarone2166]

Very helpful!

[@boomerangfreak]

I have 2 dealers I tend to go to. 1 is a more generalised dealer where I go for when I need bigger boards and especially sheet goods. It's also pretty close and has great prices and service! 2 is my favorite, it's a bit over an hour drive away depending on the traffic BUT it's as far as I know the only actually exotic wood dealer for consumers. They have pretty good prices and a wide variety! A lot of their supply is smaller pieces like a lot of blanks for turners but they also have some very nice boards. That's where I go for things like purpleheart and this one time I found this BEAUTIFUL piece of spalted beech. It's always a joy going there to see what they have in stock at that moment as their stock changes a little every time. Totally worth the drive! :D

[@robertberger8642]

Thanks for this!

[@madmax51mc]

Love your content Jonathan! This one is no exception.

[@williammrdeza9445]

Thanks, Jonathan. Very informational.

[@okayusa6608]

Thank you for the informative class.

[@garymiller5937]

Thanks for all the info! Great video Jonathan. 😊😊😊❤❤❤

[@royunderwood7514]

Great video. Good information!

[@aaronkromhout6091]

Another excellent video. Thank you, Jonathan. And thanks for showing my hometown lumber yard! It is, indeed, a great business!

[@dtork47]

Always informative and helpful, thanks and stay safe.

[@jodilea144]

Very helpful! I always learn something from your videos. Thanks, Jonathan. 😊

[@rbradburke]

This video answered SO many questions for me. Thank you SO very much.

[@jasonhagen]

Jonathan, another great video! I love these NO BS videos! I never really thought about looking at grain direction before I buy the wood. I just always tried to pick straight boards with no knots. Now I will be looking at it differently! Thanks!

[@69kaveman]

Great info, Thanks!

[@katzmosestools]

You bet!

[@bobmartin6055]

Incredibly helpful! It can be a little intimidating going into a lumber yard at first but, they are really a great resource. Shout out to Peterman Lumber and Woodworkers Source!!

[@markduggan3451]

Great information as always.

[@katzmosestools]

Glad it was helpful!

[@GIRAF92]

Fantastic information! Thank you for this, sir!

[@katzmosestools]

My pleasure!

[@irishcommie]

Most places usually have an offcut pile. And while the per bd ft cost might still seem high, it sometimes helps me avoid overbuying if I just need a couple small pieces (accents, spline materials, facing pieces, etc.)

[@dtemp132]

My hardwood lumber yard, they definitely still charge full price, even if it's a piece that's 1 foot long :)

[@jeanchance9334]

Really appreciate your review of what you need to know about going to lumber yards. I have been hesitant about going to a lumber yard, my feeling uncomfortable because of lack of knowledge and making a fool out of myself. I know feel a little more comfortable now. Wish me luck!

[@jenniferp3401]

I’ve been looking for a video just like this. Thank you so much! This is super helpful

[@katzmosestools]

You're so welcome!

[@johnford7847]

Another useful video, sir. Thank you for sharing.

[@katzmosestools]

So nice of you

[@paddymalone7957]

Class act. Another extremely worthwhile video, thank you.

[@katzmosestools]

Much appreciated!

[@kurtdietrich5421]

We have terrific lumber yard by me on Long Island, Robert's Plywood. They are a family business. They have a huge selection of hardwoods and exotics. They make special hours from 1 to 4 for small buyers and woodworkers and hobbyists on weekdays. They are very helpful. Super place.

[@katzmosestools]

That’s super cool of them

[@J.A.Smith2397]

James Wright has a map of all local mills!!!

[@206woodworker]

Great video, thanks for doing this - I wont be so overwhelmed the next time I head to the lumber yard!

[@katzmosestools]

That’s awesome. Cheers my friend

[@woodrowsmith3400]

Jonathan... absolutely great video! If any of you who watched this video have found a hardwoods wholesaler in your area and haven't visited yet, let me recommend one more item that JKM did not mention. A drool bucket. Yeah...I know that sounds gross. But if you have never been, you are going to see things you never dreamed could happen. Domestic hardwoods in thickness you didn't think existed. Exotics of all shapes, sizes and species. Sheet goods covered in laminate, veneers and even foils. Baltic Birch at 60% of the 'local' price in 5'x5', 4'x8' and you may find cutdown sizes. Apple-ply is available at my local wholesaler which is essentially Baltic Birch made from Western Red Alder. And the best part? The scrap bin! Yeah, the scrap bin. There will be chunks of wood trimmed from longer boards with some piddling defect...a crack, a ding, some discoloration. All dirt cheap (I'm talking pennies on the dollar) and small enough (like 6"-18" long x width of original board). I always pick thru the bin looking for that eye-catching piece and end up with an armload that costs in the $20 arena ..for the entire armload. I live in the Puget Sound region of Washington. Crosscut Hardwoods in Seattle is my go-to. The building is dang near the size of a football field and floor-to-rafters full of anything and everything you could want in wood, short of construction lumber. If you are in this area, a day trip there is well worth the time and travel.

[@redbeard6493]

If your in or around the Chicagoland area owl hardwoods is the spot . All sorts of exotic woods, great sheet goods and 1x . Plan on spending a lot of time there if you enjoy building anything with wood ! Love the videos keep up the great work.

[@austinpage4347]

This is an awesome video! I'm a beginner woodworker and getting a planer and jointer soon so this video helps so much trying to figure out how to buy wood. Still gotta find a hardwood and plywood dealer in the augusta, GA area, but this video is packed with great info!

[@katzmosestools]

The south has lots of hickory which is fun

[@Rivertable]

I love no bs series. I wanted to make videos too but name of them no Bla bLa Bla straight to points

[@moisesquezada7524]

Great video, I’m a sales rep for Mayan Hardwood in the SLO county, have you been to our store in Oxnard? Aura has some cool stuff, good people!

[@katzmosestools]

We order $1,000s from you weekly and I really like your stores’ selection but your owner was extremely standoffish when asked if we could shoot there. We were told that he wasn’t looking for “weekend woodworkers” and didn’t want us promoting the store. Pretty short sided stance if you ask me considering how big our reach is and that our audience has lots of professional woodworkers.

[@TracyJammeh]

I was watching this video at work. Right after watching this video, I went into the break room... and jimmy Kimmel is on the tv.... and it dawned on me. O M G... Jimmy and Jonathan look like they could be brothers

[@kevinw6282]

Nice Job! I think you hit all the major points really well. Probably can't overstate enough for folks to be adventurous, and make some calls. It can really be worth it to get outside of your immediate locality. Here in the mid-Atlantic/Central VA, it seems like the closer you get to the source of lumber, aka the more mountainous, wooded part of the state, you can find more mills and things are cheaper, or priced mor normally depending on how you want to look at it, than near the city. Cutting out at least one of the middle men, shippers/transport, definitely can have an effect on what we pay. And I enjoy the half day trip to go to a mill. But yeah, worth calling around too to make sure your adventures yield you what you want too.

[@katzmosestools]

Yeah I always shop lumber prices. Can be so different 59 miles away

[@rebekahkoznek370]

SLO! I didn't know they were here. I usually go to Mayan Hardwood.

[@katzmosestools]

I order from Mayan twice a week too

[@inghamwoodworking3725]

Thanks for this. I actually live in SLO County and have felt a little hesitant to stop by there because I didn’t completely understand how it worked compared to the box stores.

[@RidgidRon]

I will explore this option-I live in the land of soft wood and will try to find something local!! Thanks

[@FrankTheTank417]

First! Big fan bro. U got me through my Leukemia!

[@katzmosestools]

Legend! Thank you!

[@PostmanStudio]

I really liked this video, that give more confidence, its can be intimidating the first time going in this kind of place. I've read in FWW to bring with you a little block plane to see the real grain color or what else, what your thought about that ?

[@turbopete7794]

Good stuff. I like Strata Forest Products in Santa Ana. BTW, rift sawn is generally more expensive than quarter sawn, at least at the places I go to.

[@AxeRipper802]

Thank you for this!! Seen similar videos, but this is just so beautifully consolidated and concise. Here in southeast Michigan, are there any recommendations for hardwood dealers in my area? A few I’ve looked up and found told me they don’t sell to the general public.

[@matthewwasserman7709]

For the newbies, a lot of yards by me allow you to buy a portion of a board as long as they're left with at least an 8ft board.

[@Julia________]

Can confirm! My local lumber yard requires 6 clean ft remaining (no cracks and suck) but most of their wood is 8-13ft long

[@paddymalone7957]

Great video. Don’t expect a Xmas card from the Big Box Store.

[@katzmosestools]

Hahaha yeah that went out the window a long time ago

[@johnmatsubu7069]

Great video as always. As a beginner who lives in your area I saw the link thought “ great, I’ll get an intro to the local lumberyard”. Then the video started out with you stating “ I’m 100 miles north up in San Luis Obispo” lol.

[@katzmosestools]

Mayan Hardwood in Oxnard is really good too. A little more expensive but great.

[@johnmatsubu7069]

Great to hear! Thanks! I’ve only gone to home depot in Goleta thus far.

[@Funknwanker]

I just got that pen for Christmas from my kids.

[@Rivertable]

Yeahhh new video]

[@mariah2499]

Oh my gosh! I LOVE YOU! This was so helpful. Do you think you could do a f/u video on how to recognize good quality, i.e., properly dried, etc., for those of us buying from slab stores and/or FB Marketplace? I feel like they see me coming and think they can sell me poorly stored wood.

[@RussThacher]

We have this little wood supplier right down the road from me where I'd get my wood. They had a fire this weekend (not sure of the extent of the damage) and will be closed for a while.

[@katzmosestools]

Oh man that’s rough. I’m sorry

[@was7g]

What a great video, Jonathan. Thank you. I actually bought my first big pile of hardwood lumber YESTERDAY and wish I'd seen this video first! If you see this comment, I have a follow up question- my local dealer has a full shop and can process lumber for you- is s3s enough for someone with a table saw and a planer? Maybe just s2s?

[@woodrowsmith3400]

If the shop is willing, one edge and one face is all you need.

[@ifell3]

Great video, just asking for the UK woodworkers, is this terminology the same over here?

[@mkplante]

What's your opinion of online wood retailers, mail-order? Assuming you specify grade (such as FAS or whatever), is there much advantage to going in person?

[@BrittaDuffy]

Such an excellent video. On another note, I just found out that we live in the same area. Any stores closer to the 805 you would recommend? And know of anyone that teaches woodworking in the Ventura area? One day I will absolutely take a drive up to SLO!

[@katzmosestools]

Mayan hardwoods in Oxnard is great. Cheers

[@BiggMo]

Great video Jonathan. I wish you had also covered lumberyard etiquette. My local yard cringes when newbies come in. My struggle with buying rough sawn is not being able to see the grain. Grain selection is so important for my work.

[@kellyb7321]

Another issue with lumber stores, at least around me, are that their target customers are commercial. So they're only open Monday through Friday 8-5. Makes it hard as a hobbyist to buy wood. Also, stores like Woodcraft and Rockler. They'll be more expensive than the hardwood dealers but they carry a good selection and they're open on weekends.

[@PointManify]

As a new woodworker, I saw the wood in Woodcraft and thought I could never afford to buy hardwood for bigger projects. Sure, it's nice to get S4S wood, but I can't pay $20/board foot for 1 inch walnut. The first time I went to Phoenix Hardwood in Oklahoma City, I thought I had found Heaven! I found some 4/4 rough walnut for $5/board foot. The toughest thing is that I don't own a pickup or trailer, so I have to be careful with what I buy (for which my wife is grateful).

[@johnnyking3894]

is that fund for someone like me? I am missing my leg amd a woodworker. turned my hobby into somewhat of a profession. still a beginner but man i love working with wood

[@katzmosestools]

It is. You should apply I. The about section of my website. Cheers

[@fredpierce6097]

Most people are pretty nice in a business setting. If anyone continually has bad experiences, maybe you need to have a hard look at yourself.

[@jacobbartlow7542]

@katzmosestools can/would you please do one of these on plywood from the box stores??

[@katzmosestools]

Yes sir

[@dannydaze2959]

J. Katz loved the video, thank you. Just one question, how would I give a potential client a quote? Would I have to drive to the lumber store each time someone wants a quote?

[@katzmosestools]

No just figure out how many board ft you need. Make sure to add 25%. Call the lumber yard and ask for a verbal quote or written quote to be emailed. They’ll usually honor a written quote for thirty days so just pass that along to your potential client via a line in your bid that says “quote valid for 30 days”

[@dannydaze2959]

@@katzmosestools Awesome man, thanks! As a fellow SoCal (hobbyist) woodworker, I really appreciate what you’ve done with the channel and what you’ve done for the community. Look forward to more🤙🏼

[@WalterRiggs]

Step 1 has to be “move where there’s a dealer for something besides building materials.” 🤣 best I can figure, the nearest walnut to to be found in the Mobile, AL area might be In Birmingham

[@katzmosestools]

😂😂

[@marieashby3242]

I heard it pronounced as MEH-doo-Luh-Ree Rays. It would be a great name for a bar.

[@katzmosestools]

Ha totally would. Band or minor league baseball team would work too

[@UBDB]

Man I wish you'd put the metric equivalent on the screen. You must have a significant portion of viewers outside the US....

[@jeffwells8646]

Great video but I would like to hear a discussion on why hardwoods cut by locals are so expensive. I fortunately have access to big box stores, a great lumber yard, and a specialized sawmill and lumber yard where you can buy almost any species of wood at a price. What I cannot understand at the locals here in NH have their own wood mizer-like sawmills that are charging outrageous prices for the lumber that they have cut locally and milled. I have so many projects in my head that I want to build but cannot afford the lumber.

[@katzmosestools]

I mean it sounds like a problem that is either solved or perpetuated by simple supply and demand economics.

[@jeffwells8646]

I guess. Fellow NHites, stop buying from the locals for a while and let's see if we can't lower their prices. As far as white pine, I found a very equitable supplier over in Belmont. He has it all. Clear select at reasonable prices as well as rough-sawn.

[@torbulonski]

FYI 25% waste is not enough. I.e. if your finish size is 3/4 you have to purchase 4/4 this is already 25% waste. You still need to allow additional waste in width, length and defects. Depending on your project expect more like 100-150% if you don't want to fall short.

[@bmacaulay18]

S3S doesn't matter too much when the board has a heavy bow in it. If you don't have a planer just save some money and go with S2S.

[@Andi.Mitchell.Designs]

I have to stop during the BF from plans segment… I’m in central Wyoming and 4/4 maple is $8 a bf 4/4 walnut is $25 I need the address of your lumber spot so I can go load up my trailer

[@katzmosestools]

Yeah walnut doesn’t really grow in Wyoming. Anywhere on the west or east coast will be way cheaper for those domestics. If you really want to get amazing domestic hardwoods go to northern Oregon or Washington.

[@justinl9255]

man I wanna build a door

[@WilliamBowen-le3no]

Quarter sawn lumber is expensive because it yields less lumber from any given log and don't forget your moisture meter

[@katzmosestools]

Moisture meter is a good one.

[@jmannUSMC]

Not gonna lie, the lumber dealers in my area intimidate the heck out of me. I hate wasting people's time especially as a very small fish only buying maybe 1 or 2 sheets of plywood

[@951WoodworkDesigns-bx4kn]

Very helpful video, but it’s still intimidating to go to a lumberyard. I walked out of the first yard I ever went to as they treated me like shit! They wouldn’t give me the time of day and it was like I had to beg them to help. I don’t have to treated like that as my money might not be as much as other guys spend, but it’s just as good! The place I go now is a bit more expensive, but the guys are friendly and always willing to help someone like me who simply can’t remember all the right wood terminology.

[@Matt_Foley]

$35/BF for teak! I’m surprised they even had any.

[@MattSBailey85]

I am also 100 miles south of SLO.... want to grab coffee??

[@hmpeter]

At least over here, they usually do not sell to private customers at all. So, big box store generic conifer wood it is for me. ^^

[@katzmosestools]

Damn that’s tough. I’d just open a. Account and always say you’re getting samples hahaha

[@hmpeter]

@@katzmosestools Sadly that does not work without a business registration number. It is the same with metal hardware and electronic component distributors. They are all only business to business. I was on the brink of foundling a small business just to feed my hobbies a couple of times. But so far, my hate for paperwork won. But thanks for the great video anyway, one day I'll profit from it, too! ;-)

[@torque8899]

Love when Americans measure in cheeseburgers and fractions. I get they’re all used to it an it’s easier for them but my god it sounds like a Harry Potter spell said by Sesame Street vampire count when KZbinrs talk about measurements.

[@crashkg]

The hardwood dealer that I go to does not calculate width in the BF price. Makes it much cheaper if you're willing to rip your pieces. I got some 20" wide Sapele for the same price as I would 8".

[@mich89626]

I think it’s pronounced medullary.

[@jeffw8611]

As I watch people buy garbage sheet goods from HD I cringe, a little search and they’d realize a place like this is 5 mins away in my area with infinitely better plywood that’s $20 less a sheet.

[@studiohost]

Problem is that at $70-$100+ per board, who can afford the end product.

[@katzmosestools]

People who buy custom furniture can. One of the biggest mistakes I see newer business owners do is undervalue their product. My videos alone, not including any other creator get between 1 and 2 million views a month so to answer your question, I’d say many millions of people can afford the end products. You just need to find your market. Cheers

[@newdutchworkshop7026]

There's some good information in here but it's also missing a lot. Kilndried vs airdried, common defects to check for and spotting potential problems with tension, bowing, twisting or other wood movement. Nothing worse than buying a beautiful board only to find out it's useless once you get home. Also, let your lumber acclimate in the shop for at least a week but longer if possible. So much ground to cover