Unpopular Opinion: I’m not Keen on Pentax 17 and Nikon Zf

[@TheLokCheung]

Go to nordvpn.com/lokcheung to get a two year plan PLUS 4 bonus month free! It’s risk free with NordVPN’s 30 day money back guarantee! This video is sponsored by NordVPN.

[@cameraprepper7938]

I do not like those cameras, the Pentax 17 is STUPID ! If I had Nikon I would only get the Nikon Z7II Camera.

[@L4busaures]

I've been wanting a Zf since the Df released in 2014. A powerful, modern camera, with the looks of a beautiful vintage camera. I agree with your points on them missing the mark by not putting an A or Auto selection on the dials, but as someone who shoots with manual, adapted lenses 90% of the time, I'm very happy. Also, as a part time wedding/event photographer, I love that I can use the same camera for work just by changing out my vintage 50/1.4 AI Nikkor to a modern 24-120/4 and have a fully kitted out setup ready to shoot anything.

[@tjkrueger2655]

You explained the zf dial infinitely better than I could, the X-T5 was there as a template all along but Nikon decided to half-ass it

[@Ruylopez778]

The first X-series cameras were remarkably half-assed, with buggy firmware. And they were intended from the outset to be either fixed lens [X100] or part of the X mount lens series with aperture dials. The ZF has to accommodate those who already have Z lenses without aperture rings, or want to have a choice of both. So your comparison is both unfair and lacking context. I think of cropped sensors as being half-assed, but that's just me, I guess. And Fuji calling a 645 sensor "large format" is both pretentious and misleading.

[@tjkrueger2655]

@@Ruylopez778 don't get defensive and overthink it

[@Ruylopez778]

@@tjkrueger2655 Thanks for the projection. Watch Chris Nicholls or Kai talk about how the original X100 and XPro1 were total junk when they came out (I was interested in both back then). I didn't memory hole that like most Fuji users have. I don't own any Nikons, either. X-T5 came out twelve years after the first X100, long after they'd revised the X100 and X-Pro with their incremental fixes. X Series was designed from the ground up to be cameras with dials, and lenses with aperture rings, where Z mount was not. Z mount was designed to replace the existing DSLR platform that had long since abandoned aperture rings and dials. Since most Z lenses don't have aperture rings, and Nikon, like all manufacturers wants to push its new lenses, aperture rings are a low priority. Pretending things like this don't matter isn't a sign of a nuanced perspective.

[@tjkrueger2655]

@Ruylopez778 right, which is why a retro approach doesn't work for nikon, it looks ridiculous, especially with their lenses

[@Ruylopez778]

@@tjkrueger2655 Part of the appeal of physical dials is being able to glance at the camera top plate and know your ISO and shutter speed, and adjust them quickly, even with gloves on. That is entirely independent of whether the lens has an aperture ring or the "look" of the camera. It makes perfect sense to take the internals of the existing Z cameras and make an FM styled body for those who like physical dials - especially to attract Fuji shooters who want a full frame sensor and Nikkor lenses. It's ridiculous to call a 645 size sensor "large format", though.

[@BrianMcKee]

I think the main argument for the Pentax 17 is the fact that it's an easy to use camera that allows growth. So a fully automatic point and shoot will take the photos but you aren't afforded the opportunity to experiment with any settings. And you have to understand that while you and I have no issues buying a film camera from 4-5 decades ago, there are many people with hangups about buying anything used. It can be extremely stressful to figure out whether or not something works or whatever and they'd rather buy something brand new. And frankly if you want a new camera you've got either this or a true toy camera. I'm just hoping that with the success of this camera they produce a more premium film camera in the future. Eventually that old stock of cameras will dry up and we'll be stuck with what we've got lol. More and more get harvested for parts or are just discarded.

[@DonVetto-vx9dd]

Allow growth? Any entry level apsc and mft camera will do just that. Buy old cameras and you can get cheap price too.

[@BrianMcKee]

@@DonVetto-vx9dd We're talking about film cameras here. Obviously there are plenty of good options with digital, but there's nothing with film that is available new.

[@shira_yone]

@@BrianMcKee the upcoming Mint Rollei 35AF?

[@oc2phish07]

I love watching Lok's videos. Always so genuine. His enthusiasm always shines through no matter what he is showing us whether it is a camera, microphone, light, drone etc. And his little travelogues of a few years ago when he looked (Lok'ed?)at the islands around Hong Kong were brilliant. Thanks Lok for everything.

[@leotam3372]

They should have just put a permanently mounted aperture ring, like Olympus's shutter speed ring to control the aperture

[@MurakamiFan]

We already know a lot of reviewers aren't about to shit on the Pentax because they enjoy getting the freebies and being able to feel relevant from a brand. You're in a position to be able to say the quiet part out loud. They aren't.

[@airdailyx]

actually a couple of them have pointed out the serious shortcomings with that pentax. although they should’ve just been straightforward and said it’s a piece of shit. 😂

[@Durio_zibethinus]

great point! It means he talks from consumer pov, who buy something with their own money.

[@swr410]

I think it’s more that camera reviewers tend to want more new film cameras, so they wanted people to be excited about it and buy it. Also, the auto mode ignoring range focus is such an unexpected thing, many of them didn’t even notice it.

[@莊思妙]

I will have to disagree with you with the Pentax 17. For consumer or beginners, getting a NEW fully functional film camera is really something. Not to mention it comes with the warranty. Another thing is that if you really give it a try, you will find out how amazing the image quality is. But I do agree with the design and control stuff you mention.

[@KaptainKerl]

@@莊思妙 naaaah you can buy a full auto point and shoot for under $100. no warranty needed.

[@busydadscooking001]

i want to be as comfortable as lok's cat sleeping in a stuffed fruit bowl :D

[@TheLokCheung]

It’s a fruit tart actually, and my cat is the cream!

[@jamesprivet]

A good cat!

[@busydadscooking001]

I love Pentax' effort and think it'd be fun to use, but I agree on the zf and zfc. They look beautiful, but when you realize that adding the retro dials adds a bunch of size to the cameras they're based on, and the controls only do what they say they do under limited circumstances, it starts to feel like they've been added just to give you something to fiddle with.

[@robert_may]

I think my only real complaint with the dials is an entire dial being dedicated to ISO. With auto-ISO it does feel a bit pointless - I'd have preferred a combined ISO/exposure compensation dial more like the F3, or just making a completely customisable dial like on the Leica SL3 🤔

[@sonyviva308]

I think this is my favourite Lok's video in quite a long time haha. This is a good rant!

[@thinkpadx60]

I hope this video doesn't end up with manufacturers cancelling you.. you sure have some balls of steel in making this video.

[@SMGJohn]

Only Olympus and Fujifilm understand the retro-digital camera formula. Nikon always have these weird quirks with every camera they make. I never liked them for it, but most Nikon shooters just get used to it, if you buy a Canon from 2001 and then graduate to Canon R8, its so familiar you will know where everything is from get go. Panasonic too, their recent cameras all follow the same formula, no need to relearn every new model.

[@NetvoTV]

If I want that 28-400mm f4-8 lens from Nikon, and like Zf, should I get it or better get Z5 successor soon or Z6 III? I wish there is camera with good design like Hasselblads XD and long zoom like that

[@xemay3203]

Great to see you! This is the first time I see your video, not on digitalRV

[@gasdive]

Sadly Pentax *used* to make great looking cameras. The K1000 film camera looks fantastic.

[@LeesChannel]

They should just make a digital K1000 with a split prism viewfinder, I would be interested

[@mortenthesbl5535]

And the Spotmatic is great looking - and sturdy as h...!

[@jeromemckenna7102]

@@mortenthesbl5535 My first 35mm was a Spotmatic II, a very very good camera and good looking.

[@numbersix8919]

Absolutely, K-1000 rules. It would be so easy.

[@frankhu8692]

pentax mx is better looking and better overall，so sad that due to influencers people only know k1000 nowadays

[@streecorder-vg8dc]

For Pentax17, the lens is manually focus lens, so the distance icons always show up in the finder. For ZF, in my view, if Nikon don't follow the way of Fujifilm, Nikon should add C1/C2 on the PASM switch.

[@rezzoc91]

And an "A" on at least the ISO dial

[@swr410]

On the Pentax 17, the Auto mode ignores the set focus range, and just defaults to a small aperture and fixed distance focus, covering near to infinity. So, having the focus icons still show up in Auto mode is somewhat misleading, as it implies that they still matter, when they don’t. It’s not the worst thing, but it’s not great UX design.

[@13squier]

Thank you Lok, I also thought I was taking crazy pills with so many influencers fawning over this very weird $500 toy.

[@trym2121]

You have the keywords, influencers. Many influencers got benefits so they begin with more positive attitude.

[@andymarc8632]

That pentax 17 is blimmin huge.

[@hellinvader]

I would consider myself a Nikon fanboy and I totally agree with the control. I brought a Zf anyways but the control is really annoying. Fuji got it figured out. Don’t know what the engineers are thinking. At least give us the ability to customize the C to act as A.

[@Ruylopez778]

Fuji began with both fixed lens [X100] and X mount with aperture ring at the conceptual stage. Z mount lenses generally didn't/don't have an aperture ring. X series firmware was "really annoying" in the first cameras they released, as was the AF and manual focusing by wire.

[@kalimarus]

I actually am more annoyed with my X100s auto ISO than my Nikon Zf, yes it's neat you can to to A for auto, now try adjusting the auto iso range. On the Zf, the ISO dial is the auto iso range adjuster in M mode, it's way better that way.

[@nikoladimitrijevic8172]

TLDR It's new, it's decent and saves money 1. Good used half-frame cameras are not available everywhere 2. Plastic feeling is solved by gluing the leatherette on the back, the recess is of ideal depth 3. It's half-frame, it's saves money 3. It's not ugly, it's just unusual (grip spoils the line from the aesthetic side, but is crucial for good ergonomics) 4. It's half-frame, it's saves money 5. Main problems with most P&S are: can't control ISO and flash has to be shut down every time camera is turned on (if there's an option at all) - P17 does not have those drawbacks 6. It's half-frame, it's saves money 7. It is new, not 20/30/40/50 years old... 8. And even used P&S (good ones) are not cheap 9. DID I MENTION THAT IT'S HALF-FRAME AND IT'S SAVES MONEZZZ PS I have a Minox, it's a cute camera, but it's very awkward to use because of its size (i still love that camera, but rarely use it) while the P17 is not

[@kistovisback]

not taking pictures also saves money. there's a limit below which it's not worth it even if it's free

[@nikoladimitrijevic8172]

@@kistovisback I agree... but P17 (if scanned properly) produces good results... There are people who are satisfied with the 110 film as well. In my eyes it's a snap/diary camera, and it is excellent for that purpose.

[@KopfdesRiesen]

Point 5 is why I’ll probably end up with it in the next few months. Point and shoots which have at least a little bit of exposure control

[@nikoladimitrijevic8172]

@@KopfdesRiesen It's no fun at all when you get an underexposed roll of expensive color film :) I like P&S cameras... but I only trust them with black and white film. P17 with adjustable ISO and exposure compensation shouldn't have that problem... EDIT: It doesn't look like it in the video, but it fits in a normal-sized pocket, which I was pleasantly surprised by

[@KopfdesRiesen]

@@nikoladimitrijevic8172 Sounds lovely!! And I agree! I recently bought a Harmon Phoenix 200 which most people agreed looks a lot better shot on 100 iso. Which I’m doing on my Olympus XA but my friends Mju? He’ll probably not like the film. Changing the dxo reading is also not worth it imo if there are cameras who have exposure controls like the Pentax 17. and I’m glad to hear it fits in the pocket!!

[@ruiner101]

Thanks for the thoughtful video, Lok. I am considering a Nikon Zf. Those things you mentioned are worth knowing but don't really bother me too much. My first DSLR was a Nikon D3200 and I had to go into the menu to set the auto ISO, which was a pain in the ass. But the fact that you can customize a button for it on the Zf rectifies that for me. I own a lot of manual lenses so the fact that you can't use S mode might be an issue. I hadn't heard that about the camera. It still might not be a deal breaker but I will have to think about it. I like the Z6 MKIII as well but I'm a little tired of that form factor. I currently use a first generation Z6 and I do love it. The Zf is a huge step up for me and I love the form factor. I loved the Df too but the fact that it didn't shoot video was frankly, stupid. Total deal breaker. Anyway, all I've read were super positive reviews of the Zf before this and also "Nikon sucks! Fuck Nikon!" so, I appreciate your personal take on it. Peace!!!

[@sonholee5769]

I think the lack of s mode does not matter. You just put in on manual right? I think you would just place it on M mode and put the iso on auto. Right? No?

[@kalimarus]

I don't have my Zf with me right now but I wonder if S mode won't work if the non CPU lens is not setup. The camera would have no way of knowing what aperture it's set to so no way of setting exposure in S mode correctly.

[@richardlucascronley5128]

I think the Zf is misunderstood. Now, I own one, and i think its fantastic, so i may be biased... but that being said, its meant to be an aesthetically pleasing camera, that has a modern approach and conveniences while mainting some of the tactile experience from analog cameras we enjoy. Thats it. Its not supposed to be a SLR analog camera simulator in digital form.. its a modern camera through and through but with some throw back aesthetics and features... It really is a joy to use. If youre even thinking of getting one just do it, its great. If this camera had FUJI written on it, there would be endless 10 star reviews across youtube and every hipster blog out there. But its Nikon, which youre not supposed to like in the mirrorrless age... but just like in the analog days with the F3, the DSLR days with the D850, I believe Nikon will come out on top with in the mirrorrless era as well. Maybe not with the Zf... but in the years to come. The Zf/Z8/Z9 is just the beginning

[@kdj.imagery4317]

Interesting reviews. Is it the same on the Z fc with the availability too shoot or rather not too shoot in aperture mode on the top command dials? I was thinking about purchasing one and using a lens adapter with some old AI-S lenses that have the aperture ring, would that be possible? Cheers!

[@ghostgums]

Everyone focuses on the ZF needing an L style grip. No one seems to be talking about adding a thumbs up grip from the hotshoe. I’m telling you it’s a game changer for the ZF’s ergonomics.

[@noenken]

Yeah, ergonomics on that body without addons is just terrible. It either needs some help or it needs to be much lighter.

[@Slave-Of-Christ]

It's ugly…. really ugly.

[@ghostgums]

@@noenken Agreed. Personally I’m happy with it with a thumb grip.

[@SingleTrack66]

You’re crazy if you think the ZF is ugly. It’s beautiful. It looks like an F3. THE camera for nearly 20 yrs. if it feels awkward, add the grip.

[@robert_may]

I don't really understand people who buy the Zf and add a grip - surely a modern ergonomic camera would make more sense at that point? I personally like old camera ergonomics for casual shooting and shoot an F3 quite comfortably (which as far as I remember is actually heavier than the Zf). I feel like cameras from that era are designed to be used with a neck strap.

[@GG-zv9ku]

To be fair, your complaints about the Zf, while valid, aren't deal breakers for the overall package and are likely a non-issue for most other users.

[@kalimarus]

Basically non-issue for me. I shoot it in M and actually really like the auto ISO setting the way it is, the ISO dial becomes the max ISO setting in that mode and it's fantastic. I didn't buy the Zf for perfect ergonomics and a stellar PAS-M experience, it's a M mode camera for me especially with older adapted lenses and a ton of fun that way.

[@Frank-Ding]

Thanks for sharing all these thoughts! Ergonomics are super important to me and sounds like a lot of them are not well thought through on the Zf and Pentax 17. Especially the Zf I think would drive me nuts 😂

[@kalimarus]

If you want best ergonomics the Zf is not the camera to get.

[@davidgfisher]

​@noenken Nikon Zf (and Zfc) has had an official Nikon grip with a thumb rest since the day it was released. It's the Zf GR-1. KZbin reviewers should mention this but don't, because most are fools.

[@kalimarus]

@@davidgfisher Even with one of the 4 grips available people who want ergonomics perfection will complain about the Zf. If you know your someone who gets frustrated if button, wheels and grip placement isn’t perfect then the ZF will probably be very frustrating. Most of the complaints seem to be from people too impatient or cheap to wait for prior to its release, or buy the Z6iii and want to complain about the Zf not being that camera.

[@junianwong1]

Some Hong Kong KZbinrs always said that all the cons of Zf can be forgiven in such a low price tag.

[@BBEEKKAY]

A little side rant, but somewhat related. I thinking not having AF compatibility with AF-D lenses was the biggest mistake Nikon made with Z mount. I gave up my Nikon dslr and lenses and went to canon and Panasonic.

[@Moonstone-Redux]

That was actually the biggest barrier against me staying with Nikon when I was figuring out my next step after moving on from Nikon F-DX. If they made their FTZ adapters capable of working with AF-D lenses I would have stayed with Nikon. In the end I went with Fujifilm, though I still keep my complement of AF-D primes because I have a film Nikon that only AFs with AF-D lens. I might want to get a full-frame Nikon DSLR to really use those Nikon primes since my preferred film are slide reversal films and no one makes them these days.

[@JPCl]

​@@Moonstone-Redux Kodak Ektachrome is extremely easy to find and cheap, Fuji Provia and Velvia not so much since they paused production

[@adden2242]

Even here in the Philippines we never talk about Pentax 😅😂 lol

[@jackblackwhole]

There’s a sense of after thought with Nikon releasing the Zf, trying to lash on the success of fujifilm.

[@AnoshterHaar]

This

[@kalimarus]

There's also a flood of people who want a Fuji full frame and can't reckon with it working like a Nikon.

[@DDenDeeen]

我明你講乜，我都用咗mjuII十幾年，同時我都有P17，影咗兩筒。你話佢太膠，我同意，不過話質感差過mjuII就唔認同，兩部機大小有別，但我真係較welcome輕啲既P17。入film冇問題喎，位都幾精準，拉桿觸感都好好。P同Auto兩件事黎，睇說明書好冇？佢哋嘅說明書一早已經擺咗上網，其實唔可以話冇睇過呢個係藉口嚟。P mode其實較手動，適用適合street photography，Auto冇得估焦，會自動對焦（說明書冇講有AF，其實有）但係快門嘅shutter lag就會好勁，適合影家庭相用。我自己影咗百幾張嘅經驗就係呢一部相機基本上係好唔容許你拍攝一啲失敗嘅菲林相，超級之穩定同埋測光快門永遠唔會令你失望。唯一缺點就係相機冇雙重曝光，同埋外型攻擊性有啲太強。但係你話呢部係唔係一部好相機呢？我覺得係一部非常好嘅相機。同埋我最討厭就係有人成日拎一啲廿幾30年前嘅相機同佢比較，我淨係敢問一句，有邊部菲林相機仲有保養啊？啲舊相機我用幾千蚊買返嚟如果玩兩玩就壞咗點算呀？就算你肯俾錢都未必夠人識整啦。我2 部mjuII就係年事太久（2001 年買）所以壞晒motor先考盧買p17的，故此真心絕對唔可以咁比較，再者，$4000其實唔算貴，你折算返當年嗰啲所謂嘅半價菲林相機，嗰啲機分分鐘折算值成萬蚊。半格菲林其實都係非常之好嘅設計，而家一同菲林成$150再加埋晒相嗰$50即係$200先至包晒成個過程，其實咁樣計吓影一次都已經要洗$3雞， full frame的話已經貴過instax超級唔化算。另外我想講呢一部機個鏡頭設計本身係邊個位會有失光同埋冇咁sharp，依家改咗做半格就完全處理咗呢個問題。

[@FenixYuk]

Full frame點會貴過instax，而家影一張instax已經要7蚊，黎緊仲會加價

[@FenixYuk]

我話一般年輕人要試下影菲林懷舊下，應該直接買pack富士即棄菲林機，一部pentax17夠影千幾張相

[@emptyskullify]

Zf ergonomics is trash. There's no reason to celebrate retro when it feels like holding a brick on skates

[@davidgfisher]

​@noenken Nikon Zf (and Zfc) has had an official Nikon grip with a thumb rest since the day it was released. It's the Zf GR-1. KZbin reviewers should mention this but don't, because most are fools.

[@Caballeroshot]

Literally every film camera shared the same dimensions and nobody complained about "ergonomics"! If that were the selling point for cameras Leica would have gone out of business long ago!

[@owRekssjfjxjxuurrpqpqss]

I don’t think the 17 is ugly imo but it’s definitely weird. I don’t mind it. I am glad there’s a half frame camera on the market with some level of control and a good lens finally though. Not sure if or when I’ll get one but I really do want a half frame camera and the only good options are the old pen cameras or the Pentax 17.

[@charliewaterman816]

I totally dig the complaints with the zf, there's stuff i wish were different...BUT I do love my zf, using a grip, turning around the lcd so its not there unless i need it, and using it primarily with M mount glass.. all the manual feel, with ibis, but all the tech I need when I want to use it. But yes I wish we could make some changes.. Also think its the perfect time for Nikon to deal with sigma to use / rebrand those small e mount C version lenses with aperture dials on them!

[@bclowe91]

Lok, this may be helpful with the Zf auto iso situation: set your auto iso to 200 in the settings. Now the dial will do auto iso up to whatever the dial is set to. You miss out on iso 100, but you can keep auto on and the iso dial works. It’s a lot different than Fuji, but I got used to it quickly.

[@tomscameras]

Many thanks for this video!!!! Finally someone's speaking out loud what I'm thinking about these two cameras as well ... I could not agree more! I also totally don't get how they could make this weird AUTO mode that makes you focus wrongly and also I don't get the limitation to ISO 50 and last not least the (unnecessary) electronic focus motor makes it lag a bit when you take a photo. I do understand the Pentax 17 a specific concept and of course it is not for everyone, which is perfectly normal. But these flaws don't have to do anything with the concept, they're basically just weird!

[@brusselssprout1]

The video makes sense and the criticism of the Zf is well argued. I have been using mine for 10 months now, i love it as much as I hate it, but I think I am now cured from any remaining nostalgia for the design constraints of the pre-Eighties film age. Camera design and ergonomics have evolved for very valid reasons. But if you really really want to mimic the looks of old bodies, it is true that Fujifilm offer a more intuitive pseudo "analogue" implementation of the triad of exposure controls (speed, aperture, sensitivity). On some bodies anyway. That said, I am now used to the Nikon way (was the same on the Df) and have for example come to embrace the role of the ISO dial in auto-ISO as a way of increasing shutter speed in aperture priority mode: the markings on the dial allow the user to push up the minimum ISO, hence forcing the camera to increase speed and prevent motion blur when needed (maximum ISO is set in menu). Regarding aperture rings, quite a few Nikon Z lenses offer a second control ring that can be used for aperture control. Not as nice as marked clicking apertures, but more intuitive than the body wheels (see the two new f/1.4 lenses). I use Z-mount Voigtlanders to get closer to the vintage experience. But when all is said and done, I know that my next body will forego any retro-aspirations. I am even considering trading in my beautiful Zf for a Z6III or a Z8, despite the financial hit....

[@adamkocka-patchik4545]

I shoot Fujifilm cameras for my digital work and thought the Nikon Zf was really cool but when I saw the lens options and lack of aperture rings I felt it was lacking quite a bit. Also it’s pretty heavy in comparison to the XT5 or the Xpro3.

[@MrBaskins2010]

i appreciate you giving retro alternatives for folks on a budget. the Zf disabling those physical dials is a strange decision but i think custom firmware could fix that in the long run (something similar to magic lantern)

[@sonholee5769]

I think the point of many reviews I've seen of the pentax 17 is that though they also do not like the build quality and dislike functionality, it does have a weird functionality that works, IF you put give it a chance and shoot some rolls. I've heard the same of the zf. Many do not like it's implementation of the manual dials as much as fuji's and agree that nikon needs to make smaller primes, but many of its charms shine through when using the camera. I really thought long and hard about the ZF, but I just don't want to carry that much weight in my camera bag anymore and changing from camera systems at this time is just too expensive.... :P

[@edbifner6370]

Maybe it’s smaller in person, but from the videos, it seems a bit big to be a half frame point and shoot camera. Admittedly, I’m still rooting for the Pentax 17’s success in hopes of Ricoh releasing a new GR film camera (ideally for less but probably for the same price as the GRIII/GRIIIX)

[@truncatei]

Yes! AUTO and Ring Setting conflict exists in both camera, I had one zfc last year, these questions troubled me. The conflict between electronic and mechanical exists, they do retro in electronic way.

[@japancamerahunter]

Since Pentax snubbed me I don't need to kiss their ass. The camera is a disappointment. It looks and feels cheap, the battery compartment looks like it was forgotten about until the last minute. And they should have credited you for the Bokeh setting.

[@Rangefinder48]

Haha Bellamy’s still disappointed by it. Honestly I thought they’d ask you to review cause I thought your audience would be their target market. But now I’m not even sure who their target audience is.

[@bradl2636]

Pentax Ricoh has an opportunity to redeem themselves… a new film GR. Otherwise the 17 is a real head scratcher.

[@thinkpadx60]

well all influencers seem to kiss ass hahahahah else they wouldn't be called an influencer

[@TheLokCheung]

Lol you’re right about the battery compartment! It’s so out of place!

[@larsingrain]

I appreciate your honest views and I agree with a lot of it. I own the Nikon ZF, and owned the fuji x-t5 before that. The shortcomings are certainly there on the Nikon, but if you use this camera for a long time and take time to set it up it is not a lot more difficult to use than the fujifilm :) for example I can make the auto iso work just fine using the i menu, or just use the dial if you need a higher iso than your auto iso. But it's true, the fujifilm controls just make more sense with the aperture rings on them as well. I hope Nikon adresses the issues, because the output of the Nikon ZF I much prefer! And we need honest youtubers to make brands aware of shortcomings, so thank you!

[@samueljames9015]

I like your loungeroom setting with nice windows in the background! Makes a nice change to every other youtuber with leds and fairy lights in the background, thanks for a real review Lok! Nice to know about the niggly things that make cameras less appealing.

[@james263]

So do the dials not work at all on the Zf if you use a vintage lens with an aperture ring? Only full auto mode? That would be a deal breaker for me and I was planning on getting one of these.

[@1armbiker]

If you shoot manual the dials act as expected, it’s only S mode which has the issue shown here.

[@pietro-viecelli]

I was keen on the Mint 35AF until the video showing the auto focus being horribly loud was published 😅

[@lanolinlight]

New, overhyped cameras are for bored rich kids. Give me a $100 refurbished film camera with a metal body.

[@mikelovesphotography]

Thank you! You have provided a valuable service in this video. I like the Pentax 17 concept, I don't like its 'execution.' Of particular interest is the issue experienced with the Nikon Zf camera. I had no idea that a non-cpu lens would be such an issue. This has definitely opened my eyes. Thanks again!

[@cameraramblings4107]

The best way to use the DF is with m glass. A good budget option is to pair it with thypoch 35mm they make a z version but I use an m. I really like the DF there are work arounds and you just adapt to the camera. I love how well you can manually focus adapted m glass on it with peak focusing. Set the camera to b&w and wack a leica lens on it. Option b is with adapted Sony glass with an aperture ring and the megadapt adapter. The Sony lenses work great. I use mine with the 50m 1.4 and 24 gm. Both work great with the DF.

[@raymondlau7183]

Finally i heard a same idea with me regarding these 2, if i want to buy a film camera, i'd rather have a look on the Rollei 35 AF coming up, or get a second hand vintage camera. I cant spend HKD4000 up on a Plastic Camera.

[@dylanglynn5703]

excellent review IMO. i own and use (and struggle) with the nikon zf for exactly those reasons. I think the only thing i would disagree with is how serious a problem their design choices are - b/c of my shooting style / content, i need to use ISO often. it is absurd what they have done and i find myself using my z6 almost all the time. i expect i will sell the zf. thanks again for a great review!

[@eplazai]

When I saw the thumbnail I thought it was TechLead, ...sorry bro. Nice video.

[@Poverello2001]

I agree with you about the Nikon Zf. It makes no sense to have all those dials, but no aperture ring. I’m a former Nikon shooter who switched to Fuji 5 years ago because I love their cameras and how they operate. Also, I appreciate that you gave us your honest opinion about these cameras.

[@hfiguiere]

The Pentax 17 focusing is a bit weird on paper (I don't have one). There are several things to take into account, most of it relating to the fact that zone focusing is the simpler and least expensive of all. And this lead to lot of other design constraints. What is weird is that indeed the focusing ring doesn't change the lens until the shutter is half pressed (why did they add motorization?) until you read that AUTO will set a fixed focus. But the indicator being mechanical there is no feedback: this probably would add cost and compexity. There is apparently a lot of quirks, and the attempt to make an automatic camera but not completely automatic results in this: lot of compromises. Maybe they should make later a Pentax 17 AF? Interestingly the user manual troubleshooting section has "Autofocus does not work." So is it manual zone focusing or is it autofocus with zone selection as a way to influence the aperture priority? The manual doesn't say. (this comment is not meant to argue whether one like it or not - it's just thoughts on why it would be that way)

[@Kvistum-Media]

Leica and Fujifilm are the only manufacturers that get the retro functionality (not only look) right in digital cameras. Why is it so difficult for the others?

[@thedarkslide]

I got the Zf - at its price point it is a really amazing camera. And yes, there are compromises that I felt disappointed about - like the lackluster plastic lens options to match the camera perfectly. Or the abundance of cheap fealing plastic on parts of the body. But hey, it's not a 6k Leica M body! You get what you pay for. The same is true for the Pentax 17. I think it looks great personally. Having tons of film cameras already, including a Leica MP, the 17 is not really aimed at me. But I would probably recommend it to anyone who is serious enough to spend money on a film camera and wants peace of mind and a fun experience without running into issues with used gear.

[@Being_Joe]

The 17 does not excite me. Why would I? I think I will maybe just buy more film instead (or a F3).

[@nikoladimitrijevic8172]

If you buy F3 you will definitely buy more film :) P17 main selling point is saving money and use without thinking too much... F3 (my favorite film camera) is great for intentional mindfull photography, P17 is great for snaps

[@Ruylopez778]

Although a niche market, I think it could appeal to young people who feel intimidated buying a used film camera, or those buying it as a gift. They have the reassurance of a warranty and shooting half frame makes film more economical.

[@Being_Joe]

@@nikoladimitrijevic8172 film is too expensive for snaps. I understand film too much to think of it as a gimmick. I shoot 4x5, 120, and 35. With a F3 you can use far superior glass and really make the most of that 35mm film. There are great 35mm point and shoot cameras that cost way less if you want snaps. For me the loss of quality going down to half frame just does not do it for me. Also, I really don't think there is anything "magical" about film. It is just a tool for making images and digital cameras are great for snaps. At the price point the P17 is just a no for me. And no, I really do not feel I would be saving film.

[@playteles123]

Decent critique of the Pentax 17 but did Lok actually test the camera and take some photos with it? At the 3 minute mark he mentions he put film in it and never took any photos. It's not clear if he means he hasnt taken any photos from that specific roll or from the camera overall.

[@cornellouis]

The Voigtländer lenses have adjustable aperture. I think you make an excellent point that Nikon could have made a new lens with an aperture ring and contacts that would alleviate some of the awkwardness.

[@jss27560]

I agree with you. I’m not nostalgic for the old film days when you only had 36 shots and being only able to afford one camera, and that's a struggle why would I get a camera because of its looks?

[@sorwerk]

I think the design of the Pentax 17 is intentional, that's how they wanted the camera to be: quirky.

[@JohnDoe-fp1tv]

I don't think Nikon not having any new lenses with an aperture ring is an issue, I wouldnt expect them to make top tier lenses with them for such a small group of users. There are loads of options out their that can be used on the ZF which I'm sure most owners know about before buying the ZF. However the lack of an auto ISO setting on the ISO dial is a HUGE oversight, what were they thinking!

[@mr.foxwiz1653]

On outings with other photographers, I have seen just one guy with a Pentax. And that is over 15 years.

[@macmac8122]

Use the Voigtländer 40mm 1.2 Z and the 75mm 1.5 with Aperture Ring

[@KingFiercer_zip]

50mm f/1 will be too big for this camera without a grip?

[@taube9389]

Well the top and bottom part are magnesium and not plastic to begin with... And a MJU at the current inflated prices is not a good recommendation at all. I had several of these that failed (little film window fell off, no more autofocus, constant E error...).

[@tsellsseashells]

The worst thing about the Zf is the ergonomics. The shutter button is in the worst spot I’ve ever experienced on a camera. Also no joystick. Everything else I love.

[@owRekssjfjxjxuurrpqpqss]

I love the Zf body but the lack of lenses that match it aesthetically is a massive reason why I won’t be getting one. If you are getting a camera in part for aesthetics (the entire point of the Zf existing if we’re being honest) then you are kind of stuck with the two lenses they made in the same aesthetic or you have an ugly mix of their modern looking lenses on a retro body. They should just have some rehoused alternative versions of some of their other most popular lenses, that would help quite a bit in getting the Zf line the sort of attention the Fuji system gets. You can use manual focus vintage lenses too of course but from what I’ve read, the Zf’s manual focus aids are not great which is a problem for manual lenses when there’s no prism or rangefinder. I’m not too upset about the lack of aperture rings, I would prefer if they had them, but I would still be interested in the Zf if they had a range of lenses that matched the look of it.

[@kotwa]

Finally someone. Pentax 17 is a disaster in my opinion. And I hear they're now hard to sell, on shelves everywhere... so we are not alone, clearly. Poor Pentax.

[@leeRocks568]

U are 100% right to say the Pentax 17 is uninspiring and ugly. I fully agree with you 😂👍🏽👍🏽. The final nail for me on this Pentax 17 is its half frame and its zonal focus. Glad that you share this honest opinion of yours and makes me feel like I’m not alone. Thanks 🙏🏽

[@duncanwallace7760]

Perfectly reasonable and well explained criticisms!

[@Theexplorographer]

Pentax best and last real camera is the Super ME. Sexy AF and functional. If you have not tried one, I suggest you give it a shot.

[@feints7714]

I appreciate all the points you made and agree with most of them, but I'm surprised that someone as deeply embedded in the industry as you can be a little disingenuous about the price. The cameras that you point out as being cheaper and more fun were more expensive than the pentax 17 when they were new. Please show me a camera today that's cheaper than 500 and actually worth your money. 500 is not peanuts but it's literally as cheap as it can be for the consumer and they might even be losing money on it. The design choices were definitely weird, like half frame format, but that's just pentax. The camera isn't for me, but I'm glad it's out there and fostering more interest in film, that's why everyone is so positive about it, they want it to succeed despite it being flawed. In case anybody cares, it does make some beautiful pictures and has a sharp contrasty lens that punches above its weight.

[@LUITESLIFE]

I was actually expecting the Nikon ZF to feel really nice, but I find it feels cheap when you hold it. Was a bit of a turnoff.

[@Ruylopez778]

I think both cameras are popular because of the concept behind them maybe more so than the actual performance; [as a niche] consumers want a retro looking full frame mirrorless Nikon with dials, and they want manufacturers other than Leica making new film cameras because it would be good for all film shooters if it's a success. Both could be accused of being style over substance. But, these are also the first iteration of both models, and the updated version (if we get them) might well fix some of these issues.

[@cameraprepper7938]

I do not like those cameras, the Pentax 17 is STUPID ! If I had Nikon I would only get the Nikon Z7II Camera.

[@ljknh]

Great video, and I love your cat.

[@KieranCoughlanWicklow]

I agree on the ZF though I really wanted to like one of the new Nikon mirrorless camera. Nikon was my first SLR when I started, I currently shoot Sony for FF digital and it's brilliant but soulless. I had tried all the prior Z mount cameras out and I just didn't like how they felt. The ZF should have had a tilt screen, the dials properly designed and just a little bit of a grip without having to accessorise. It really should've been a FF Fuji X100 but they messed up

[@ZessDevon]

Alright everyone, we need ideas for this upcoming film camera. Yes Frank? "What if we make a camera with normal controls that you find on most cameras as well as an automatic mode?" That's gonna confuse the hell out of the newbies, Frank. What are you thinking? How about you, Bill? Got anything? "What if we give it like five different automatic modes and a zone focusing system that only sometimes focuses where you set it?" Bill, you're a genius. I'm putting you at the head of design department. Frank, take notes. We're trying to make something easy to understand here.

[@RonScibilia]

Pentax has a winner with the Ricoh GR line. This quixotic foray into film nostalgia will only drain resources from what they do best. We GR users are all waiting for the GR IV, and it's been a while.. As for the Pentax 17 itself its prime virtue is that it's a new camera; you can get much better for the money buying vintage film cameras.

[@Ruylopez778]

I can see the 17 being a popular [niche] camera in Japan, possibly as a second camera, where the appeal of half frame getting 'double the shots' from a roll makes shooting film more economical. For those who use Lomo cameras it's a step up in build quality and features, and for those intimidated by the idea of buying a used camera with no warranty or manual. Easy to buy online or from Yodobashi/Bic as a gift without having to worry about it breaking down. Of course, it may prove to be quite a flimsy camera as time passes. If I was in the Pentax marketing team, I would give it to the young celebs and try to make it into a cult camera like the Contax T2/T3.

[@shervinsardari]

Thanks for your honest review! When the Pentax 17 was released, I had a chance to try it out and I posted my initial thoughts on reddit. Got so much hate just for stating the fact that it feels plasticy. Apparently it can't be plasticy because it has a thin (mostly decorative) aluminium top plate. 🤦‍♂️ People really are religious when it comes to camera brands... Nevertheless, the Pentax 17 is selling like hot cakes, which to me is a signal that the film photography community is an undervalued market that is willing to spend their hard earned money for a good (or any 🙊) product. I hope other camera manufacturers will finally realize the potential they're missing out and catch up.

[@donkim6278]

To be fair having old cameras as only option for film photography always felt like peddling in a sinking ship. I agree that the price can be more reasonable and pretty sure it will come down later, but i love what pentax17 represents : a chance of sustainability for film, hopefully. On the other hand i still dont understand what nikon zf claims to be, other than another mirrorless in a fake retro shell :(

[@pauldby1479]

Nikon ZF is very attractive but too big and heavy without extra grip. The ISO implementation and retro lens choice also needs to be better

[@GuRimfir]

The points about Zf is so true. I just have no idea why they can not learn from Fuji.

[@nyohaku]

Reviewing a camera without trying it out is a new one for me. I’ve seen reviews on products that were never even purchased - only rated on posted specs.

[@TheLokCheung]

Or may be this is not a review, but opinion essay? Like it's the second word in the title.

[@nyohaku]

@@TheLokCheung I enjoyed the video, basically agree with your opinions, but once that film was in the Pentax I was curious to see the images. And yeah, it’s ugly.

[@photos_to_onesandzeros]

No aperture rings on Nikon lenses is such a missed opportunity

[@xmeda]

Pentax K10D, K20D, K-7, K-5 and K-3 are nice cameras :) But yes they also created many really strange things.

[@monstermayank]

We need such reviews for each camera 😅

[@madcauchyren6209]

I think Nikon should have add a ISO button on the dial. Maybe some more customizable buttons. The ZF will be more user friendly

[@madcauchyren6209]

Put a mode to aperture ring. Put a s mode to shutter speed ring. Make a separate M mode toggle. Replace the PASM dial with a customize select dial.

[@RaymondParkerPhoto]

I agree with everything you said about the Zf. Not about to sell it though. There's something about it I like ... maybe it just reminds me of a digital version of my FM.

[@edbifner6370]

I’d love if they came up with ZF body versions of all their existing full frame cameras

[@WhiskeyTangoFoxtraught]

About time we got an honest review. The Zf is just dumb. I’m a Nikon guy, and the x100vi just got it right. With the x100vi, it doesn’t so much feel like a “retro” camera as much as a camera with knob centric controls. Everything I need to control the camera right there: menu’s aren’t fun to scroll through.

[@georgemoua7349]

Glad new film cameras are coming out, but I'll stick with my $90 PEN-F.

[@doulos5322]

People need to understand what makes the Zf great is the manal auto focus aids in vintage glass like leica voitlander older nikon ai lenses , etc Ive never taken my Zf out of manual mode so all your issues for me are non issues.

[@DanielXu7]

15:07 what lens is that?

[@VinceWatches]

100% agree with you regarding these two cameras.

[@leeRocks568]

I feel Pentax could have done a better job on this new film camera. A manual focus would be even better and easier in my opinion. And why not a full frame!? For the price advertised I won’t even give it a second look tbh. It is such a shame. Anyway everyone has the right for their own opinions and this is mine.

[@estogaza1]

Thanks for being honest Lok

[@cotswoldphotographers]

We can’t all like the same things Lok and that’s what makes the world interesting. Let’s face it if we all liked the same things then it would be pretty boring!

[@paulelisarov2576]

Nothing is better then usual DSLR style body with PASM based ergonomics.

[@bigrobotnewstoday1436]

The Pentax 17 I wish it was full frame. And the Nikon Zf I don't like the grip. I know you can buy a grip for it and that makes it a little better. I see the Nikon Zf as a camera that is make for f1.8 primes and some small zooms like the Nikon 24-70mm f4. If you are ok with that its not bad.