Andy Woods - Why I am not a Calvinist: Part III

[@truth7416]

Thanks Andy Wood. It is soooo refreshing to hear the simple truth of God's plan of salvation. It's simple so even a child can understand it. God's truth attracts Calvinist fools like flies to a manure pile! Keep up the good work. Truth in Love

[@ShaneIrwin7]

Calvin is fools? Your wording causes you to look like a fool. Whether Calvinism is true or not, are you aware that all of the greatest minds and genius level theological thinkers were men who believes in election? Augustine, Calvin, Spurgeon, George Whitfield, Jonathan Edwards, RC Sproul, and many more. The biggest stalwarts of the faith believed in election. Even Andy Woods himself showed some respect for John Calvin, unlike you. Fools? Yes I understand being intellectual or a literal genius doesn't mean you can't still be a fool. But looking at the body of work of these men, they were no fools.

[@lucashack5318]

Jesus not only died for you, but he died for your sins, and rose for your justification.

[@dustinpaulson1123]

The Calvinist children's hymn: "Jesus loves me, this I know. As for you, I don't think so. Only some to Him belong. We are right and you are wrong. Yes, Jesus loves me! Yes, Jesus loves me! Yes, Jesus loves me! But I hope this isn't effervescent grace that I'm walking in and instead I'm actually deceived and one of the reprobates that He created to burn as a candle for His glory in Hell forever."

[@truth7416]

Its a natural conclusion that Calvinists ignore. Calvinism the dope of the arrogant. I like what you said but it is so sad that this really is what they believe in their hearts. l go to every calvinist site I can as a ministry against them and their doctrine of demons. May I copy and past your song? TRUTH IN LOVE

[@timdodenhoff7942]

How much scripture to you have to ignore, or twist to come up with your conclusions. I'm sure very, very, very much. We just don't like what the scriptures say, and actually think that we, as sinful creatures deserve something other than Hell itself.

[@cwdesigns101]

Easy understanding. Thanks- It seems like almost every church in our 3 valleys have now turned to reformed or Calvinism. I just don’t get it… there really isn’t any hope in that thinking.

[@truth7416]

Could someone please give me their own personal story? I ask and ask but NO ONE WILL ANSWER ME, IT SHOULD BE SIMPLE! My question is this. Are you sure you are one of those who are predestined for Heaven? How do you know you are one of the Elect? What did it feel like before you were regenerated and had no faith? What did it feel like after you were regenerated and had faith? At what age in you life did that happen? How does it feel to know you are chosen and most of the human race are not? TRUTH IN LOVE

[@dannywilliamson3340]

Ok, "truth"......here goes. 1) I am sure 2) I know because I believe that I would be lost forever because of my sins, and Jesus died to redeem me and to make be one of His children. 3) I do not recall ever having had any inkling that what I was hearing from the pulpit wasn't true....I was raised in the church. 4) It felt like I had told the world that I believed Jesus is my saviour. 5) I was about 8-9 years old when I understood. 6) I have been given the most precious gift anyone could have and it thrills me to know that it will be my eternal destiny to glorify God in His presence. Now......are you going to try to tie me up in a knot and make me doubt? Or are you seeking "truth"?

[@truth7416]

@@dannywilliamson3340 Danny you are braver than most 5-Point Reformed Calvinists, As they are afraid to say they are saved as it may appear as works and the Reformed establishment will come down on them hard. I will respond to you with respect and honesty. 1) I am sure ( yes Christians are sure and I am sure also) 2) I know because I believe that I would be lost forever because of my sins, and Jesus died to redeem me and to make be one of His children. (yes I agree... The "To make me one of His children is a flag though? It should be to make a road for me and offer me forgiveness and become a child of His) 3) I do not recall ever having had any inkling that what I was hearing from the pulpit wasn't true....I was raised in the church. ( I can relate with this as it was the same for me in my life) 4) It felt like I had told the world that I believed Jesus is my saviour. ( Truly said and I agree "I had told...) 5) I was about 8-9 years old when I understood. ( I too was about that age) 6) I have been given the most precious gift anyone could have and it thrills me to know that it will be my eternal destiny to glorify God in His presence. ( There is a flag here when you use the words "Given" It is not the same as "OFFERED".) Now......are you going to try to tie me up in a knot and make me doubt? Or are you seeking "truth"? ( My only purpose to even talk to a Calvinist is to wake them up to the perversion of the Calvinist gospel.) In your case it seems you are saved but you don't know you are fighting against the gospel, that is going out to reach the lost with the OFFER of salvation. You are unknowingly doing Satan's work and NOT listening to the leading of the Holy Spirit in these matters. If you are a Christian you have the Holy Spirit living inside of you, as your councillor and guide. If you are a fake Christian you do not. You want to please God you say, then do this one thing. YOU ask the Holy Spirit to show you the truth about what 5-Point Reformed Calvinism is? Do you dare to? If not, why not? It is a simple thing, unless you are afraid of what the truth might be. God will not lie to you. Lets say you just think you are a Christian and are not! Then Satan who leads the whole World astray, is who you will hear from . I think that was fair and in love. Truth in Love

[@dannywilliamson3340]

@@truth7416 Yeah…..that’s what I thought. When the Reformation took place, and the shackles of Rome were thrown off, the true church went back to a correct understanding to biblical truth….the historical, grammatical, literal approach to interpretation. The doctrines of sovereign grace re-emerged and the bible was translated into the languages of the people. The dark ages were fading away…..for a while. Then along came Jacobus Arminius. A theological professor at Leiden University, he questioned the teaching of Calvin and his followers on a number of important points. After Arminius’s death, his own followers presented their views on five of these points in the Remonstrance of 1610. In this document and in later more explicit writings, the Arminians taught election based on foreseen faith, the universal application of Christ’s atonement available to all who freely choose to accept it, limited human depravity, the resistibility of God’s grace, and the possibility of a fall from salvation. The Synod of Dort was held to settle the controversy in the churches initiated by the rise of Arminianism. The Synod rejected these views and set forth the Reformed teaching on these points with the purpose of offering a deeper assurance of salvation to believers in accordance with the teaching of the Scriptures. Arminius’ adherents were directed by the commissioners of the Synod to abstain from ministerial activities such as preaching, exhorting, administering the sacraments, and visiting the sick. The “Remonstrants”, as they were known, agreed to refrain from ministering in the government-ordained churches, but confessed their duty to expound their doctrines wherever people would assemble to hear them. So your brand of hermeneutics is a rebellion against the Reformation. But that’s not so unusual in these waning days of human history. The Lord told us it would be this way. In eternity past, the Father wrote my name in the Lamb’s Book of Life and predestined me to be conformed to the image of His Holy Son. I was never “offered” forgiveness of my sins….my justification took place before I ever existed. I know how to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit…all I have to do is open my bible, and I find my guidance for my life there. No special revelation is needed...or offered. My salvation is eternally secure. So…..you’re going to now pronounce anathema on me because I do not agree with you? That would be a rather prideful thing to do…..that character trait being one of the Father’s favorites among His children.

[@truth7416]

@@dannywilliamson3340 Saved and forgiven before you were even born. That 's a good one. Hope that works out for you somehow. To be saved without "Repent and be Baptized" I guess that is another Gospel.

[@dannywilliamson3340]

@@truth7416 Why are all you Arminians giving up on the Reformation and retreating to Rome after all that progress was made? Is it too much of a burden to let the world see your assurance that the Sovereign Creator has decreed all things to the pleasure of His will, that the creature has no more to do with his spiritual birth than he did with his biological birth, that Lamb slain before the foundation of the world laid down His life only for His people, that ALL whom the Father calls will come and none will be lost? And all because you grant yourselves the literary license to allegorize Holy Scripture to suit your own purposes. "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" (1 Timothy 4:1)

[@CmRoddy]

Question: Can you provide an example, within the New Testament, of an Apostle going to unbelievers and saying “Jesus Christ died for you,” as a means of evangelism? Do we ever see anywhere within the New Testament a proclamation to a group of unbelievers, as a method of evangelism, where James, Paul, John, Jude, Peter, Luke, Mark, or any other disciple/elder says “Jesus died on the cross for you! Now, accept Jesus into your heart!”

[@acts2024bjl]

Here’s one for your consideration. But this is the apostle Peter telling his readers that “the Lord bought them.” Who is “them”? Unbelievers-in this context, the false teachers are clearly being referred to for they are “denying the Lord.” It reads: ““But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction,” 2 Pet ‭2‬:‭1‬.

[@CmRoddy]

@@acts2024bjl Thank you for the comment. I think that the more consistent way of reading 2 Peter 2:1 is to understand that Peter here is speaking to believers (I.e., “among you”) *about* the false prophets/teachers (I.e., “them… upon themselves”). There is a distinction here between who the letter is addressing versus who this specific section is talking/warning about. When Peter says “denying the Lord that bought them,” it is not the same term used as “Lord” used in other passages when describing our Lord Jesus. In 2 Pet. 2:1 the term is “Master” or “Despot.” It is not the typical “Lord” or “Kurios.” A better understanding of this would not be that they are denying the Kurios Lord that bought them but rather that they are denying the Master that bought them which they claim to themselves. In other words, these false prophets/teachers claim to be under the Lordship of Christ, they claim to be bought by Him, but they are not. Additionally, I don’t believe it would be proper to view this verse as an example of someone denying the finished work of Christ. All other passages that talk about the purchasing of His people talk about purchasing with a price, mainly the price of His blood. There is no mention here of the blood of Christ, or the finished propitiatory sacrifice of Christ on the cross. And lastly, Peter is not speaking directly to the unbelievers. We still have no example of Apostles saying “Christ died for you, accept Jesus into your heart!” At no point in the New Testament do we see this method of evangelism laid out as an example for us to use.

[@acts2024bjl]

@@CmRoddy Well, thank you for your reply. But, wow! That’s a stretch! First, you are right that this passage was written by Peter to believers, 2 Pet 1:1. That is not the issue. The issue is this: Peter believed of coming danger and is, therefore, warning his readers (believers) that these false teachers will come “even denying the Lord that bought them.” You are right that the word for “Lord” here is δεσπότης, not κύριος. But it is, nonetheless and undoubtedly, a reference to Jesus Christ-who is Lord and Master-who “bought them.” In fact, Jude uses the same word in his epistle (both epistles have a lot of similarities-warnings against false teachers and, thus, the importance of heeding Jude 3) in Jude 1:4 as a reference to Jesus Christ. Furthermore, while there is nothing mentioned in this passage about Christ purchasing with His blood (a reference that can be found in other New Testament passages), there is no mention here (or anywhere in the New Testament) of these false teachers denying the Master that bought them “which they claim to themselves.” Lastly, here’s John the beloved apostle. He wrote: “but these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name,” John‬ ‭20‬:‭31‬. His purpose for writing is plainly stated. To whom? Who did John have in mind as his audience? The phrase, “… ye might believe…,” is plural (both pronoun and verb) and the verb is in the subjunctive mood (the mood of possibility). This could apply to believers who needed to be strengthened in their faith in Christ. It can certainly refer to unbelievers who needed to believe that they might have eternal life. John wrote his gospel, while moved by the Spirit of God, for the rest of the pagan world. And he wrote: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life,” John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬. That’s an example of an apostle who brought the gospel to the lost by proclaiming the Person and Work of Christ to them. He believed and taught that Jesus Christ “… is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world,” 1 John‬ ‭2‬:‭2‬. I believe our exegesis of the inspired texts written by these human authors should shape our theology. Otherwise, we might find ourselves using our preconceived theology and shaping our exegesis of the Biblical texts.

[@CmRoddy]

@@acts2024bjl I couldn’t agree more that our exegesis should inform our theology. So ultimately this issue revolves around the question of what we believe about the extent of the Atonement. What do you think was the intended result of the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ on the cross? Do you hold to penal substitutionary atonement? I am asking just for clarification, because I don’t want to assume. I am not asking with a secret “gotcha” up my sleeve.

[@glennmariacher4525]

While I so appreciate this input, you have gone into great detail before about believing in the doctrine of election and how it is true. So I'm confused by you saying that all people are saveable. I do want them to be but how does it square with election? Thank you for all you do though.

[@minorsingingairhead]

I think it is prudent to square election in light of more clear biblical texts and doctrines.

[@sketchbook1]

Because election to salvation concerns being "in Christ" since Christ is THE Elect One. Just as Jewish people back in the OT were part of Israel IF they were a part of the community, Christians of the NT are part of the Body IF we are IN CHRIST. Election, as the Calvinists teach it, is NOT a simple choosing, like how one chooses one ice cream flavor over another. God has chosen to elect "all who look to the Son and believe." All who repent and believe are then placed in Christ, and are then part of the Elect. Unconditional Election is as without Biblical support as is Limited Atonement.

[@minorsingingairhead]

@@sketchbook1 Thanks for the comment. Could you recommend some resources on the topic of election? As a former Calvinist I'm still in the process of thinking this through.

[@sketchbook1]

@@minorsingingairhead I would strongly suggest watching Leighton Flowers channel, Soteriology 101. He's got all sorts of videos dealing with election and the whole topic of salvation.

[@aficianado100]

Election is God’s choice of the saved to service, not God’s choice of some of the unsaved to salvation.

[@johnhoffman8203]

God calls whom He will just as He chose Israel to be his nation through whom the rest of the world would have to go through and i dont hold that against Him, He is and I'm not so election makes no difference to me. I dont know who he calls or doesnt so convict em all and let God sort it out.

[@sue431]

The whole world may be savable but we know that isnt going to happen.

[@minorsingingairhead]

Sad but true.

[@user-qc9ll3qu6u]

You do not have to be kalvinist, just teach correctly the Word of God!

[@timdodenhoff7942]

Then you'll be mistaken as one, because the doctrines thereof are very Biblical! You have to neglect or forsake much Christian doctrine to not be or mistaken as a Calvinist.

[@timdodenhoff7942]

It could be called, Why I am an Arminian?

[@andywoodsunofficialchannel7421]

Then you clearly haven't watched or understood the video :)

[@sketchbook1]

Not really, because he's not an Arminian. The strangest and most consistent straw man and false conclusion advanced by the Calvinists when debating non-Calvinists is to see all non-Calvinists as "Arminians," as if one necessarily follows from the other. Most bible-believing Christians are neither Calvinist nor Arminian.

[@UniteAgainstEvil]

ignorant comment with zero valid input.... GO FIGURE!!!!!!