Did Israel Steal Palestinian Land?

For more commentary on this issue, read the beginning of Elan Journo’s book here, for free: bit.ly/3QABEO2
ARI’s resources on Israel, Palestine, and the Middle East (bit.ly/arimideastresources).
𝘞𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘑𝘶𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘤𝘦 𝘋𝘦𝘮𝘢𝘯𝘥𝘴 by Elan Journo explains the essential nature of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, what has fueled it for so long, and what justice demands of us to solve it. Get your copy here: amzn.to/3s26aXp
Failing to Confront Islamic Totalitarianism: For twenty years after 9/11, the Ayn Rand Institute predicted that prevailing ideas about morality would undercut our foreign policy and cripple us in action. Those predictions have proven correct. Get your copy here: amzn.to/46svNjg
==
In this episode of New Ideal Live, Elan Journo and Nikos Sotirakopoulos challenge the misleading narrative of the shrinking Palestinian lands and the claim that Israel has allegedly stolen them. They explore the history of how the Israeli territories were lawfully acquired, the Palestinians’ repeated failures to form an enduring, peaceful state, and the broader philosophical questions of what moral premises are necessary to validate any claim to statehood.
Among the topics covered:
● The dishonest narrative of the “shrinking Palestine” maps;
● The documented history of how individuals acquired the land through trade;
● The Arab rejection of the two-state UN partition plan;
● How the very idea of a partition plan ignored the moral dimension of the Palestinian claim for statehood;
● Why the issue is not fundamentally about land but the type of society being established;
● How Israel ended up occupying the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights;
● How the flawed “land for peace” policy exposed the impossibility of a peaceful Palestinian state;
● The fact that the Palestinians' goal has never been to build a free, prosperous society.
Mentioned in this podcast are Journo’s What Justice Demands (www.amazon.com/What-Justice-D...) and ARI’s resources on Israel, Palestine, and the Middle East (newideal.aynrand.org/aris-res....
The podcast was recorded on October 26, 2023.
0:00:00 Introduction
0:01:43 Dishonesty of “shrinking Palestine”
0:06:35 How the land was bought
0:07:58 The Arab rejection of the two-state UN plan
0:11:40 Morality of the Palestinian claim for statehood
0:19:29 It’s about the type of society, not land
0:22:04 Israel and the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights
0:25:12 The flaws of the “land for peace” policy
0:30:03 The Palestinians’ real goal
Subscribe to ARI’s KZbin channel to make sure you never miss a video:
kzbin.info_...
Download or stream free courses on Ayn Rand’s works and ideas with the Ayn Rand University app:
- App Store itunes.apple.com/us/app/ayn-r...
- Google Play play.google.com/store/apps/de...
ARI is funded by donor contributions. You can support our work by becoming an ARI Member or making a one-time contribution: ari.aynrand.org/donate
******
Keep in Touch! Sign up to receive email updates from ARI: aynrand.org/signup
Follow ARI on Twitter: / aynrandinst
Follow ARI on Facebook: / aynrandinstitute
Follow ARI on Instagram: / aynrandorg
Subscribe to the ARI Live! podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
******
Explore these ideas further! ARI's online publication, New Ideal, explores pressing cultural issues from the perspective of Ayn Rand’s philosophy, Objectivism: newideal.aynrand.org/
Join an upcoming virtual or in-person event: ari.aynrand.org/events/
Visit ARI’s website for more about our content and programs: ari.aynrand.org/

[@AynRandInstitute]

For more commentary on this issue, read the beginning of Elan Journo's book here, for free: bit.ly/3QABEO2

[@tonykennedy1615]

Rachel Corrie.

[@Bearded.Stranger]

The discussion while including historical facts, did omit significant details that would alter the conclusions arrived at in your discussion. I'd read Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish scholar, books or listen to his talks to get an objective and more complete truth. Peace.

[@andrewlisciandrello6920]

Based on the ignorance that he displayed in this video, I'll pass

[@andrewlisciandrello6920]

@@Jay-eo3wl defeated by whom?

[@andrewlisciandrello6920]

@@Bearded.Stranger Finklestein is required reading for anyone discussing this topic. The fact they didn't mention Zionism, or the Nakba, is a great indication that they're leaving out large chunks of the story.

[@rhodaberger7262]

Let's debunk the term "Palestinian" in the first instance. The demographics of the area that comprises modern Israel had a total population of 300,000 people in its entirety and was desolate. Most of the majority Arab population were Bedouin and Druze. At that time, everyone living in that region was called Palestinian including Christians, Muslims and Jews (who maintained a continuous presence prior to and continuing after the Roman expulsion." The term "Palestinian" didn't derive from the existence of a previous sovereign state called Palestine populated by predecessors of modern-day Palestinians because there never was a Palestinian country called Palestine. The only sovereign state that ever existed in the area was Judean. The name "Palestine" was given to this region by the Romans who wanted to eradicate its Judean character after the Bar Kochba revolution. The Jews returned to the land after thousands of years of persecution culminating in the late 19th centuries during the pogroms that took place in the Pale of Russian settlement when Jews began purchasing land in Ottoman Palestine. They began to drain the swamps and irrigate the deserts bringing life back to the land, drawing Arabs from surrounding Arab countries. Moreover, when the English took over the Palestine Mandate, pursuant to the Balfour declaration it allowed Jews to migrate to the area along with Arabs from surrounding states. However, after violence erupted in Palestine, they curtailed Jewish immigration while at the same time allowing hundreds of thousands of Arabs to migrate between the years of 1918-1948. The idea that the Jews occupied a country that had been populated by Palestinian Arabs "for generations" is a myth.

[@jillthompson1248]

But the entirety of the Jewish people never completely left the land there have been Jewish people there from the beginning of written history maybe before that

[@rhodaberger7262]

@@jillthompson1248 Absolutely. The question that people raise in regard to that is whether European Jews actually descend from the Jews of antiquity and the definitive answer derived from genetic study is that they do

[@joycealdrich]

Exactly, right! That is the true history of Palestine. If you look at the flag for that region, pre-1947, there's a BIG Star of David in the middle; NOT a cresent Moon.

[@bigboots6114]

bingo

[@josephportnojgaj7096]

Finaly someone that knows the real history

[@daves465]

One point that didn't come up in this video is that when Israel made peace with Egypt, the Egyptians insisted on getting beck every last square inch of the Sinai peninsula, yet they were quite adamant not to take the Gaza strip back to their control.

[@leonardosouza1995]

ZIONISTS TERRORISTS 🇮🇱 supporters?

[@leonardosouza1995]

Epstein importance to Israel election? Explain it? Terrorist supoorter

[@maxmeister5064]

Which means, as they've made peace with Israel under these and no other conditions, that the Gaza strip is not Israeli occupied, but Israeli posession.

[@maxmeister5064]

@@verar5844 This is what the Egyptians and the PLO thought, but quite frankly, that's rubbish. When you make peace with another country, and dispense with territory in the process, you won't be in a position to say, I demand for this territory to be dealt with like this and that. Either you make peace, and then no longer have any say concerning given up territory, or you don't make peace.

[@cantrell0817]

Yes, the Egyptians basically hated dealing with the Palestinians in Gaza. They still feel that way.

[@dragonmaster1500]

As a GIS cartographer, I know how powerful maps can be. While it's essentially impossible to be completely honest with a map, there will always be some information that is omitted and a 2D plane can never represent a 3D ellipsoid (the Earth) completely accurately. It is however, the duty of the one making the map to reduce the amount of dishonesty present in the map, to communicate extremely clearly what their map represents. However, often times there are those who see maps as a tool to push their own agenda. Sad as it is to see.

[@toolegittoquit_001]

'The 9 dashed line' comes to mind 😏

[@williamwhitaker219]

What would a more accurate map #1 look like? Who has legal title to the green sections in map 1 prior to 1947? What parts of the map were unlivable? To what extent was the land tribal? Was the concept of private property universally understood? What ethnic group or nationality controlled the green sections of the map?

[@DenethorDurrandir]

To my understanding, the first map doesn't show national ownership at all, all of the area, white and green, was owned (temporarily) by the Brits, the green area is quite literary "everywhere individual Jews didn't own", not discerning any Christian or other owned land, also not discerning unsettled land. Also during the era the map portrays, "palestinians" didn't exist. Just like "Americans" didn't exist during the medieval period.

[@Diablo_Himself]

ALL of those maps basically just show a large area of historical Judea. No matter who lives where, The whole land is Jewish land. This is why we English "gave the land back" to the Jews. Interesting choice of words, don't you think?

[@frankshailes3205]

@@Diablo_Himself Wasn't Judea a Roman province at the time of Christ? Should you give it back to Italy/Vatican?

[@mattjewett4473]

I'm done looking ass-backwards to some arbitrary point in time. There are losers throughout history. What the "Palestinians" have done since 1947 is unworthy of respect.

[@dag_of_the_west5416]

​@@Diablo_Himself please explain where Canaan was and who were the Canaanites.

[@yasminni485]

Also, you forgot to mention that the reason Israel did not give Gaza back to Egypt was because Egypt didn't want it back, and from what I learned they actually threatened to back out of the deal if Israel did not take Gaza.

[@josettejackson8445]

FACTS!!!

[@maxmeister5064]

They didn't want Gaza back for VERY good reasons...they owned it long enough to know that the people were trouble...

[@peterkratoska4524]

@@andrewlisciandrello6920 Also forgot to mention that after the Arab countries attacked Israel and lost in 48, they expelled some 800,000 Jews from their own countries.

[@BRUSHYSURFING]

@@andrewlisciandrello6920 you delude yourself or you lie! Before 1948 'Palestinian' meant all people in Palestine , which was a larger geographical area tha Israel and included all jews , christians and arabs. the word is a colonial term given first by the roman emporer Hadrian. It is a geopolitical term and is NOT a term to define a race of people! very few of the Gazans if any were ever original inhabitants of the area as original inhabitants! they came from Crete and supplanted Egyptians and jews 1500 years ago

[@BRUSHYSURFING]

@@peterkratoska4524 very good point. we hear nothing about the arab world ethnic cleansing of all jews and most christians !

[@jkay3262]

The problem is a lot of the people debating this issue have no knowledge of history.

[@danielr82]

The problem isn't so much that people don't know, or ignore history, the problem is that people hide facts and lie by omission. - notice this video doesn't talk about any illegal settlements. - the reason that the areas around Gaza were not well defended is that much of the IDF had been moved to the West Bank, with an aim to "protect settlers"

[@maevy1787]

Precisely. They rely on slogans and propaganda.

[@rhetoric5173]

Rand was a j r4t

[@rhetoric5173]

Yes. Especially the people interviewed here. N. Finklestein already showed the deception.

[@soulbytes]

Any trusted link of the history i can read..?.. i really want to know and undertand. Thanks

[@justktoday0016]

We are not allowed to have an honest opinion anymore now.

[@E.D.998]

Can you exlain the land acquire? let's say im canadian and i buy a house in texas, that plot of land doesnt become part of canada. In other words, was it a state buyng from a state like russia selling alaska to US, or is it private people buyng land inside a country?

[@lennardchurch8483]

I'll start with a brief (2 paragraph) summary of the history of the region to set the scene: The land that's now Israel, in the oldest recorded history we have of it, was occupied by the various Canaanite tribes, who were not a homogenous people, though many of them were of Greek origin. At that time in history, how countries ere made was conquest, and that's how the ancient Kingdom of Israel was established, by conquering the Canaanite lands to establish the Kingdom of Israel. Later the Roman Empire conquered it, and most of the Jewish people were exiled. The Romans named the territory after the Philistine tribe as an insult to the Jewish people, but the Romans never really did anything with the land, and didn't create a country there. It was a similar situation when the Ottoman Empire acquired the land, and when the British Empire acquired the land. As of the end of WW2, when the Jews returned, bought land and established the modern democratic state of Israel, no other country had ever existed within that land since the ancient Kingdom of Israel, the land had always been a territory of a conquering power. The territory the British Empire controlled encompassed what is now both Israel and Jordan. After WW2, the British gave the Jews to begin returning en-masse to their ancestral homeland for the expressed purpose of them establishing a country for themselves there. The Jewish people legally purchased land as individuals to combine into the new modern state, with the permission of the British government, who were the current rulers of the region. That's why Israel's founding on land purchased by the Jews was legal and valid. If any group had tried buying up large amounts of land to create a country, and they didn't have permission from the government that ruled that land, that would not be valid. It's important to note, that no state, country, or nation of "Palestine" ever existed in all of human history. The people who call themselves "Palestinians" never even claimed the existence of such until after the modern state of Israel was established, and the false claim was used a a political weapon to challenge Israel's right to exist in the international court of public opinion, but too many people are uneducated on the history of the region to see through the lies.

[@xealit]

but what if you buy a New Amsterdam and turn it into a New York, is that fine? Ok, I am more like joking here. @lennardchurch8483 described the context pretty well :D It is a little funny that we have to go back to Canaanite tribes though. But one point is unclear to me: between Ottomans and Romans, there had to be the Arabic conquest and Crusades.

[@jfmallon75]

​@xealit it's a desert dude... nobody really wants to live there.

[@MarkBoninsegna]

@@lennardchurch8483so basically what you are saying is that Israel is Greek? Awesome!

[@lennardchurch8483]

@@MarkBoninsegna No, nothing of the sort. Some of the Canaanite tribes were Greek. The Israelites are the descendants of Isaak, and the Arabs are the descendants of Isaak's elder half-brother Ishmael.

[@piscinaiv7937]

Don't forget also that by 1979 Egyptian president Anwar Sadat was in favor of the UN 2-state solutions and for normalization with Israel and then fundamentalists in his own military murdered him for it.

[@markanderson3870]

Rabin was also in favour of a two-state solution and also murdered by a fundamentalist on "his" side.

[@malcolm3187]

@@markanderson3870 There is a theme there and a lot of people ignore it.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

A one state solution could have worked in the past, but with all the terrorism and crimes against humanity, I wouldn't expect that to happen anytime soon.

[@Jbainbridge5]

And then the Jordanians met with the palestinians and the palestinians murdered the king of Jordan, and that's why Jordan/Egypt won't take refugees.

[@chitosesenri7087]

Don't forget the Jews have 0 claim to the lands people already inhabiting for over 1000 years. Those entities, especially the UN, you listed have no right to dictate anything either. What's your point again?

[@urihanoch358]

one more thing the maps don't show is the Arab population inside the state of Israel - today there are around 2 million of them, all Israeli citizens.

[@katrinbarbey164]

That's true, but ask any Palestinian and they will tell you those people are not true Arabs.

[@mrwizard2089]

Bullsh*t!

[@bumspanka0927]

They are Palestinian citizens of Israel, they are not simply Arab, they are Palestinian, no more and no less than any Palestinian who left present day Israel in 1948

[@alyskabb]

​​@@jasonfobes5980Of course! they have members of parliament , representation in the Supreme Court, exactly the same property, education ,work and so on.. rights as the Jewish, Christian,Druze etc population.

[@wengelder9256]

@@alyskabbfurthermore they get the benefit of not having to serve in the army .

[@K3nny24]

The Israel Philharmonic Orchestra was founded as the Palestine Symphony Orchestra by violinist Bronisław Huberman in 1936, at a time of the dismissal of many Jewish musicians from European orchestras. Its inaugural concert took place in Tel Aviv on December 26, 1936, conducted by Arturo Toscanini.

[@williewonka6694]

Well, that illustrates what happened to Palestine as well as anything.

[@meia5990]

What is your point here exactly??? And whar does it prove.

[@trn8061]

Excellent breakdown of key moments in the history of the region.

[@gregebrown]

It’s easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled. (Samuel Langhorne Clemens)

[@yesorno4147]

This so called expert lost me at no land was stolen! Really!! STOP….. 800,000 plus Palestinians who lived in Palestine and owned property fled for fear of being killed and lost all their lands and possessions. They also lost their right to return. No compensation was ever made. Till this day, the Zionists are stealing land especially in West Bank via their illegal occupation and settlements. Over this period the Jewish population of Palestine, composed principally of immigrants, increased from less than 10 per cent in 1917 to over 30 per cent in 1947. The map signifies exactly that. How Jews comprised 10% of population at end of World War One

[@primarchvakarian589]

That's deep bro

[@iamsiley2200]

@@primarchvakarian589 It's also directly quoted from Mark Twain (allegedly, and originally) without credit. If I were an English teacher, I'd be disappointed!

[@number1neek]

Those who believe what this Journo nobody is saying without providing a single citation are the ones who have been fooled. Read history books, don't listen to VPs of think tanks

[@Christmas12]

yeah like take for example ANYONE on this KZbin sub taking an 'Ayn Rand Institute' seriously

[@rogertull8888]

What was Palestine like before Israel? Before 1948, Palestine was home to a diverse population of Arabs, Jews, and Christians, as all groups had religious ties to the area, especially the city of Jerusalem.

[@MetalArrow]

Funny thing is Jews living in Palestine before Israel, are _still_ living in the occupied territories of Palestine. They reject the Zionist state of Israel.

[@johngatsby1473]

In 70ad Rome deported all the Jews and then renamed Israel to Palestine to demoralize the Jewish folks. There is no such thing as a Palestinian....they are Arabs

[@Wabi-sabi8551]

What was it like? In 1244 when Jews were massacred & expelled from Jerusalem by the Khwarazmiyya Muslims was that because of Israel? When the Ottoman ruler of Jerusalem Murad Bey raped & slaughtered thousands of Jews in Jerusalem & Hevron in 1517 was that because of Israel? When whole communities of Jews were murdered & exiled to Cyprus in 1576 was that because of Israel? When Jews were murdered, raped & tortured during the Jerusalem persecutions from 1623-40 was that because of Israel? When Jews were raped & murdered en masse in 1660 during the Tzfat & Tiberias pogroms was that because of Israel? In 1720 when Ashkenazim were butchered & exiled from Jerusalem & Hurva synagogue was destroyed was that because of Israel? In 1775 when Jews were once again murdered & raped en masse during another Hevron pogrom, was that because of Israel? When Jews were again butchered & raped in 1799 during another Tzfat pogrom, was that because of Israel? In 1820 when Haim Farhi was murdered & Jews were enslaved was that because of Israel? In 1834 when Jews were again raped & butchered in Tzfat, Hevron & Jerusalem was that because of Israel? In 1851 when R' Avraham S. Z. Zoref was murdered in Jerusalem for the crime of being a Jew, was that because of Israel? In 1873 when Sara Rivlin was raped & murdered, along with her baby who was also murdered, was that because of Israel? And, the 1920 Jerusalem massacre, the 1921 Jaffa massacre, the 1929 Hevron, Tzfat & Jerusalem massacres, the 1936 massacre in Beersheba, the massacres during the 1936-39 Arab riots... was that because of Israel? I can go over the nearly 1000 historically recorded instances of Mizrahi Jews being butchered, raped & tortured throughout the rest of the Middle East & North Africa over the last 1400 years too if you like. When you claim there was "peace before 1948" implying Israel & Zionism are the problem, all you're proving is that you know less than nothing about 1400 year history of Musta'ravi & Mizrahi Jews being persecuted under one Muslim rule after another. You can regurgitate your intellectually lazy propaganda narrative & relish in your imaginary sense of moral superiority, but you cannot change empirical history corroborated by thousands of historigraphical sources. Sorry habibi, but you cannot gaslight the descendants of Musta'ravi & Mizrahi Jews in Israel with your pseudo-history.

[@josephbrewster1169]

Yes, and especially in Jerusalem but not only there, the Crusades killed more Christians, Jihad killed more Muslims and Zionism killed more Jews. They were each antithesis to their own religion.

[@jojosthenewblack]

@@josephbrewster1169Zionism killed more Jews? Than what, jihadis and Christians?

[@williamwhitaker219]

Is there a map or other visual aid that shows the chain of custody for property titles? Where does the Israeli government get its authority to give land grants to settlers?

[@lennardchurch8483]

There's the portion of land that the Jews legally purchased after WW2. And the rest of the land was acquired in defensive wars, as when the Arabs attacked Israel with the intent to exterminate the Jews, Israel was legally allowed to drive back the aggressors, seizing the land to establish defensible borders, as is established in the international laws of war. That means the land legally became the possession of Israel when they seized it, regardless of who previously owned it, and Israel has the right to use their own land however they like, including building towns on it. For when a particular portion of land became Israeli property, look up which murderous attack from Arabs on Israelis forced Israel to seize that land.

[@zufalllx]

@@lennardchurch8483 So stolen then. A national form of civil asset forfeiture.

[@Kinoko314]

@@lennardchurch8483 This is a giant load of garbage. The UN never had any right to gift land away in the first place. Israel is a lie built on lies.

[@behavioraldesign]

Many trust these maps without a clue about the region's history. The map makers displayed such a lack of honesty or competence that they omitted Egypt and Jordan's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza and made no reference to the Jews expelled from Gaza and the West Bank, along with the estimated 850,000 Jews expelled from Arab nations-a figure comparable to the number of early Palestinians refugees. I've tried to assess the actual evidence, and it's far more difficult, with contradictory evidence and the UN having some of the only reliable demographics from the time--which are themselves inconclusive. But these maps are nowhere close to reality. They're maps for persuasion, not education.

[@Byorin]

Thank you for giving me more information to digest and consider in what is a very controversial topic. I've been wary of all the various media and sources that seem to be driven by agenda, so it's definitely challenging to make objective sense of it all. Thanks again and have a nice day.

[@kathleendwyer117]

Look up ‘Political Islam’ warner

[@Krystal_Ballshit]

Exactly. Where is the context? People are so dumb

[@behavioraldesign]

@@Byorin The problem is that many books are politically divided into camps of rhetorical echo chambers that cherry-pick history and ignore points against their bias. Then, when you find the truly evidence-based content, it's far more complex and messy. But at least it helps you differentiate between pathological lier and the deluded versus those attempting to make sense in an honest way.

[@glenholmgren1218]

LOL! “The Map Makers … honesty & competence…” Islam teaches its adherents that it is Good to Lie to the infidels 😮

[@marksimmons1193]

It's sad that we need to upload and view history lessons on KZbin now while the Elite Colleges are silent to their students.

[@pocophone2010]

Jew-ish europeans are genetically europeans not semitic like arabs and middle eastern jews. so why did david grun (changed his name to be david ben gurion in order to sound like osama ben laden the semitic man) come from Plonks, Pland to Palestine for stealing their land and for the palestinians holocaust???

[@benallen2942]

It's called suppression of the truth. It's not just sad, it's rooted in evil.

[@John_II]

Well, at least you can get the education somewhere for free. :)

[@scotchsunday]

Elite colleges aren't silent; they spew lies

[@ivyyoung521]

It's truly sad and embarrassing.

[@kencannuck]

"....the question is what type of government is actually going to be there....." . That question is answered for now by this Netanyahu government and the extent that they will go to displacement Palastinians. Bombing, starvation, displacement. This gives an optical device to look back on activities for 70 years. Democracy in itself doesn't have value. It's a question of the activities of the participants.

[@johnwolfenden7599]

It actually doesn't matter. Humans have a right to self-determination.

[@kencannuck]

@@johnwolfenden7599 I hear that phrase around a lot lately. So, in your mind does same Appy to Russians in Ukraine ?

[@kencannuck]

So, are you saying Palastinians are determined to be bombed in their homes, starved, displaced.. or are you saying..."might is right" ?

[@johnking7454]

The first issue with that first map is they are comparing apples and oranges. They are comparing settlements to land masses. Where are the Palestinian settlements? How much of that green area is uninhabited and unowned?

[@danicooke346]

Interesting video on a well known and distributed set of maps. I appreciate the perspective being presented and discussed. However I’m not sure about the strength of the arguments being shown: 1. “Nobody was there” is an old colonial view of conquering territory. Famously the “Terra Nullius” claim for Australia. There are huge swathes of unoccupied land in many countries but it doesn’t mean people can just help themselves. 2. “Who builds a better country?” is a hugely subjective way of determining statehood. By what measure and for whom? There must be a number of countries that don’t deserve to exist by in the view of some. Does that mean they should be conquered and rebuilt in the image of the conqueror?

[@leGUIGUI]

Two excellent points.

[@BaronsHistoryTimes]

Very true.

[@andrew_owens7680]

I would suggest that anyone could build a better country with enough interest free loans from America. Also, if the "better" metric is shiny buildings and you look the other way on human rights issues, then UAE has done a marvelous job with slave labor.

[@MartinAndersson715]

Just be aware that you have philosophical disagreements with these people and you are assuming that your philosophical views are the correct ones. You might think some things are a matter of subjective preference whereas they think there is an objective standard of evaluation. You might think morality is subjective, relative or mystical whereas they think there is an objective morality with 'Life' as the standard of value. If you want to understand their point of view you should look in to Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism. 1. Is something bad because it was attitude of colonialist/imperialists? Was the essence of colonialists like the British even a negative thing? Obviously there are things to criticize but in the context at their time they were probably the most positive thing the world had going for it. Why should you not have the right to settle unsettled lands, assuming you are not violating anyone's rights? Not to say it is worth going to war over it but I think everyone has a right to settle unsettled land and defend themselves and their property. A country by definition is occupied land but just because land is occupied by a state doesn't mean the state "owns" it and if no one has settled the land, it has no owner yet. "Australia" the continent was not even a country at the time the british arrived and I assume the native people didn't even have any concept of property so the land was neither occupied nor owned by someone. The british themselves should obviously recognize and respect the rights of the natives who lived there as long as it's reciprocal. 2. You are assuming it is subjective. They would argue there are objective standards for what is a good state by the standard of human life and for human individuals living there. They would argue that a country is not an end in itself but a means to an end. They would argue there are definitely regimes that don't deserve to exist like North Korea, Venezuela, Iran and in the past the regimes of for example Soviet Union, Nazigermany etc. It does not mean free countries should conquer other lands and definitely not for sacrificial reasons for the sake liberating the oppressed people in other countries. They believe sustainable change can only come through ideas. In contexts like the defeat of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan when war was necessary anyway, I think they would support free countries to impose the values of a free country and system of government, at least partly to sustain peace. Free countries don't go to war with each other because people are busy living and trading to their mutual benefit.

[@leGUIGUI]

@@MartinAndersson715 "and you are assuming that your philosophical views are the correct ones." Actually, It's AynRandInstitute who is assuming that their philosophy is the correct one and all Danicooke346 is doing is pointing out that AynRandInstitute might be mistaken about those assumptions. Also, you don't need a sense of property to occupy a territory aNd About "They would argue there are definitely regimes that don't deserve to exist" First you need to demonstrate the people who live in the Palestinian territory do not actually deserve to live there, something the video fail to do.

[@comeonsense2572]

Points you overlooked mentioning is that in addition to Israel, Egypt also imposed a blockade to Gaza after the election of Hamas and them rejecting peace. Also the conflicts Palestinians instigated in neighboring Arab countries (Black September, Lebanon Civil War, etc.)

[@robg7924]

Hamas is part of the Muslim botherhood movement?

[@MJHdesproj]

This is ALWAYS ignored - the “palestinians” were no different to the Jordanians or Lebanese when they were within their borders - while the young children themselves are blameless, as a “people” the “palestinians” have only ever lived to cause the suffering of others. They have never even considered becoming a legitimate state, none of their “allies” have ever attempted to help them establish one, they are on the GODDAMN MEDITERRANEAN for fucks sake - not sure how much you know about history but that’s generally considered a good opening position for a civilization, but no, they have rejected all opportunities of every kind except the opportunity to be the spearhead of Islamism against ANY Jewish state. I believe this conflict will be the dividing line of the modern world, if my fellow Americans can’t get behind the idea that we should ensure the Jews are not eradicated then as far as I’m concerned they are no longer my countrymen and I abandon them to whatever fate awaits them - God bless Israel and may he guard them and keep them safe in this dark time…

[@ardendragoon]

Translation. Its a terrorist camp. Always has been. The leaders of the surrounding areas openly say that. Palestine(philistines) is a terrorist camp, theyve rejected numerous peace deals. Its the only reason for its existence.

[@dardar267]

After the previous king of Jordan caved and allowed them into his country, the Palestinians began kidnapping and violence to the extent that he said “never again!” Wherever the Palestinians go, chaos and violence ensues

[@FigsForYou]

So in other words, this video is complete biased bullcrap and should be ignored by anyone with half a brain.

[@robertkarelitz4787]

Excellent and smart because it’s a broad view, not the typical narrow explanation. As you both noted-in context. Thank you for publishing.

[@David-hq4lq]

Dear friends just to let you know . I first visited Jerusalem at the end of '69 . What I noticed immediately was the condition of the streets ! They were not paved , just unlevelled earth with small rocks all over the place ! Up till 1967 Muslims controlled Jerusalem for over a thousand years ! And as Mark Twain commented on his tour of the Holy Land circa 1880's " The land was desolate with large malaria infested areas where Tel-Aviv is today !

[@skeletor9121]

Need to go back many years prior to 1947 when the area was called Judaea. The Roman Empire controlled most of the area at that time and after several conflicts between the Jews and their controlling Roman’s, the empire decided to change the name to philistean which later became Palestine.

[@JimBrave-ri1oc]

It's Hebrew and Jewish Land. Rome never took the Land of Israel.

[@technicianbis5250]

@@JimBrave-ri1oc ?? Not what i understand, even the Bible states rome ruled over Israel, they had sibordinate kings, governors and leading figures to help run not only Israel but all it's territories.

[@shawnwhitehead3062]

Never forget that the Ottomans took the Israelites and push them out of the country that was way after the Romans did their trick and guess what the Autumn Empire was mainly dealing with that country would be Iran connect to dots it's not hard

[@pikapi6993]

@@JimBrave-ri1oc yes they did. they colonized it

[@omarlittle-hales8237]

Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace. Gospel [Last Testament]: I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but are lying-I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you." Quran [Last Testament]: Towards The Latter Days, The Children Of Israel Will Be Haughty [Except The Pious Versed In Torah].

[@morganamaya]

The main thing that this shows is that all of the peace loving, decent people all over the world have been stood upon by corrupt governments who don’t care about them or their welfare. It is extremely sad this world we are living in 🥺

[@giselapfeifer4666]

God will change everything for the better in the kingdom he has promised us..

[@George-vu7xh]

God refers to this land as “my land”

[@George-vu7xh]

In the book of Ezekiel

[@englishalan222]

@@George-vu7xh Part of a comic called the bible

[@DavidParker-cf2km]

@@englishalan222Be sure to tell God that when you have your face-to-face meeting, when you see Him as He is.

[@petersaczko6192]

Ayn Rand Institute shows a map of 1947 saying that this land is purchased. Yes, probably it was eg. Sarsuk Purchases. However, does what Elan Journo say about the 2005 map also ring true? Is he saying that the illegal settlements that exist in the West Bank in 2024 are also legitimate land purchases?

[@Dbb27]

It’s easy to be right since he picks and chooses his information.

[@FeWolf]

Conquest of war, he Permanent Court of International Justice (‘PCIJ’) defined conquest as ‘a cause of loss of sovereignty when there is war between two States and by reason of the defeat of one of them sovereignty over territory passes from the loser to the victorious State’ (Eastern Greenland Case at 47). Conquest, strictly so-called, is therefore a derivative title of acquisition of territorial sovereignty (Territory, Acquisition) taking... been around since 1st war.

[@petersaczko6192]

@@FeWolf I'm not 100% sure what you are trying to say but it might be that sovereignty can change through conquest. Are you saying that this legitimizes Israel's claims to the West Bank? If that is the case then isn't it just a matter of taking back that very same territory through warfare and conquest? Isn't this legitimizing violence? I'd rather not have it this way, although it seems to be in part the reasoning behind why this conflict continues.

[@ArsenicJulep]

Some of the land lived on by Jews was purchased by Rothschild and others. But when Jewish immigrants were purchased allotments allowing them to be tenant farmers on land owned by others, land also worked by Muslim or Christian Palestinians, the immigrants harassed and beat the non-Jews chased them off the land. This practice started in the 1880s when Jews first started coming to Palestine, what was then a Turkish colony.

[@johnnysecular]

@@FeWolfwhat does that have to do with private land stolen from its owners without compensation? even if you believe that Israel’s war loot is legitimate, you will have to admit that outside of the Negev, 92% of the land that was previously privately owned, was stolen from its rightful owners and is today in the ownership of the state of Israel. there was no purchase no exchange with any of the individual owners of 96% of the land; even those who stayed and became citizens of Israel had their land confiscated by the state.

[@domaybotha8572]

Very interesting and informative so thank you.

[@jonluky7]

You forget that the League of Nations established the Palestine Mandate to be the Jewish National Homeland. The British then gave over 75% of the land to the Arabs and called it Trans-Jordan. So there are already 2 states in Mandated Palestine. The League of Nations also established an Arab National Homeland in what is now Iraq.

[@ahmedjaad4940]

When are zionists going to be more creative and come up with better talking points? Lol the old ones don’t work anymore

[@margaretcaine4219]

Correct.

[@sixthguardian6914]

you have a point.

[@MichaelMaritato-bk4lc]

People also forget that the land was bought it was paid for they didn't just take it the League of Nations didn't just give it to anyone the land was paid for the people who lived there were paid for the land and they moved fact. The land was paid for by the rothschilds they bought the land for their posterity.

[@jonahwhale9047]

You're describing was the establishment of Palestine was a distinct political entity for the first time in centuries. While it mentioning a homeland, it did not mention a State, & it included the, “while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced”. What happened to that bit? If you support the Mandate, do you support the right to return of the original inhabitants driven out during the Nakba?

[@RevStickleback]

One thing that always seems to be missed is that "Hamas v Israeli government" and "The rights of the Palestinians to land v the rights of the jews to land" are two entirely different questions. Thinking that the Palestinians have a fair complaint that they are being squeezed into ever smaller areas does not equate to supporting Hamas. Thinking Israel has a right to take measures to defend itself from Hamas attacks does not mean you support Gaza being indescriminately turned to rubble. I can't offer a solution though. Both sides seemed to have dialled up the rhetoric to the point where total annihilation of the other side is seen as a reasoned outcome.

[@JadeReal]

Very well put

[@yuvalefrati8550]

Just ask yourself, now and ever before who instigated the violence and strived for peace and quiet. You will find that the Palestinians are always attacking and israel is always trying to have peace

[@jacobbay3114]

​@@yuvalefrati8550the obvious proof will be ignored. The Israelis developed numerous ways to defend their people, i.e., the iron dome. How does Hamas defend their people? They are the governing party after all, they should defend their own people.

[@yuvalefrati8550]

​@@jacobbay3114 they took all the food and gasoline from their own people. They built their biggest bunkers underneath the hospitals. And they brutelize the Palestinians daily more than israel does

[@VampguyN85]

Hamas didn't come along until 2006 and Israel helped to create them and refuses to allow anyone else in leadership. And has funded them over the years.

[@dperreno]

I really wish you had spent a lot more time on the history of the land prior to 1947. I think that this is extremely important for people to understand and really sets the stage for exposing the deception in the first map.

[@KristinaKarina]

This is very important and an existential question for people in the area. THE WESTERN WORLD needs to take accountability for the situation.

[@mohawk3371]

Another deception involves map one and map three. In the first map it portrays Jewish populated areas in white, even though Jews didnt have soveriegnty. Yet in map three the Arab settled areas within Israel are not portrayed in green, even though Israel had hundreds of thousands of Arabs, and hundreds of Arab towns. Very dishonest.

[@janehrahan5116]

actually millions of arabs, there are nearly 2 million arabs in isreal.

[@mohawk3371]

@@janehrahan5116 When I said "hundreds of thousands" I was referring to the number of Arabs left in Israel proper in 1948 to 1967, corresponding to map 3.

[@doctordan1668]

You weren’t listening. He said this wasn’t a tribal or racial discourse. That there were all tribes in all areas

[@mohawk3371]

@doctordan1668 I think I was. Both he and I are talking about inconsistency in what was being portrayed between the maps that resulted in completely false implications.

[@danielcriss7669]

Thank you!!

[@jeromestavrosyeo4333]

This is the best video on this convulated topic. Thank you A AR I, Nikos and Elan!

[@robfj3414]

What I’m very surprised to see left out of this discussion regarding the importance of context is the fact that it leaves out the 4/5 of British Mandate Palestine that included ALL of Jordan and a small part of Syria, Lebanon and Egypt. And that doesn’t include the French Mandate.

[@adbogo]

Because the mandate had no real legal standing. It was a hoax.

[@phillipweyers8915]

Apparently many Arabs from Trans Jordania moved west after 1922 ? Arabs no Palestinians then

[@adbogo]

@@phillipweyers8915 You mean refugee Palestinians.

[@theoutlaw5806]

Apparently under what was deemed as a legal document, the Arabs demanded all the land be divided to the Arabs themselves with no Jewish state or land. The British Empire verbally agreed to these terms & conditions with the ambassador for the Palestinian people. It never came to fruition because back in Briton (spelt at the time) denied this clause. Ultimately this led to the Zionists & the Rothchilds demands to give land to the Jewish people who were expelled from the middle east & Europe during WW1 & WW2. It was under the British Empire, through Arab nepotism, land was given to the Arab leaders uncle and son which was as you rightly say, Egypt and Syria.

[@judistanton2355]

yes they came for the well paying jobs of the British@@phillipweyers8915

[@pepperfly984]

Genuine question - Jewish people/groups that started buying land approx. in the early 1900s and beyond - the other land left was in foreign hands but who were they, and did they get compensated after 1948 when the UN agreed to the State of Israel?

[@janettucker3196]

I'm old enough to remember that prior to 1964 the Arabs called themselves Arabs, not Palestinian. The refugees were Arab refugees, not Palestinian refugees. So, there was no such thing as Arab Palestinians in 1948.

[@wittyful7254]

YOU ARE FULL OF DELUSION MISS MAAM.

[@ef2718]

run ngram[Arabs, Jews, Palestinians] it will give you a time plot.

[@eduardomanalili9154]

Arab only invented Palestine to justify war with Israel.

[@BlondHulk]

They first started to call themselves Palestinians in 1969 when Arafat created PLO, which just shows the hypocrisy of those people who think it was a Palestinian land. It never was and never will, because that nickname (Palestine) was a mockery nickname for the Jew’s ancient enemy - the Philistines, given by Hadrian in the Roman Empire days. The main goal of the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza, or the so called “Palestinians” is to wipe out Israel off the land. It was never about creating their own state and independence.

[@assallahook]

Go educate yourself and read about Nakba 1948 and 1917 Bilfore declaration

[@sa25-svredemption98]

What is interesting about all this is that so many put forward this idea of Palestinians being some predecessor peoples. The "native" Arabs of the "Palestinian" area are actually Negev Bedouins, who are frequently persecuted by the Palestinian movement. They are only allowed citizenship in Israel - the PA refuses to recognise them as people - or in Jordan, the nationality of most "Palestinian" Arabs (keep in mind, Jordan is the easternmost area of Mandate Palestine. The region it was in was called Transjordan - meaning across the Jordan - and was the "Arab" allocation in the Balfour Declaration and WWI era agreements with the Hashemites). Now, the Jews of the Negev and the Bedouins of the Negev tended to coexist rather well (the Bedouins are traditionally desert nomads, whereas the Jews tended to live in established villages - a point that is one of the few contentions between Bedouin Israelis and Jewish Israelis today, where western civilisation doesn't really account for nomads well) - but these maps of "Palestinian" land never even recognise other Arab groups with far longer histories in the region than the "Palestinians"! Which rubbishes the argument it's Arab vs Israeli.

[@rhodaberger7262]

I knew that the Arabs living in Israel were mostly Christian, Bedouin and Druze but the rest of the information is new to me.Thank you

[@illzyaz]

Wow, where did you quote this new history? Again, historical revisions

[@boundariessetinstone5893]

Well in the Bible the Israelites came from Aegean modern day Syria to Canaan modern day Israel. And the philistines came from Crete modern day Greece to Canaan modern day Israel. They both arrived to Canaan ie modern day Israel around same time the Bible says. The philistines were always trying to kill the Israelites God called them heathens and a thorn in Israelites side. And when they came back from exodus from Egypt the trying to kill the Israelites continued. And this time with other groups ie arab groups hating them too. The Israelites and thr philistines were the Canaanites the ppl of Canaan. And Egypt ruled Canaan 350-400 years many of the Gazans have a lot of Egyptian blood. It seems the Palestinians in Gaza are more of Egyptian descent. And the Palestinians that never left Israel are a mix of Greek and Arab.

[@oremfrien]

@@rhodaberger7262 This is false. Ethnic Palestinian Muslims (if we use that term anachronistically) have been the vast bulk of region's population since at least the mid-1300s. In the British Census in 1917, Christians were roughly 70,000 people whereas the combined Muslim population was roughly 525,000 people. If we remove the Bedouins and Druze from that number, we should conservatively still have 450,000 ethnic Palestinian Muslims.

[@janehrahan5116]

@@oremfrien So you're saying the muslims are settler colonials and should be removed. no? then the jews aren't either. Simple as.

[@InnerRested]

Thank you for your analysis of the actual context surrounding these maps!

[@ronblevins3346]

It’s propaganda

[@dennyawright21]

Thanks for the education. Tough to ferret out the accurate knowledge with this topic.

[@vonMohl]

You cannot grant the status of a state to people that won't live in peace with their neighbors, more then that, whose declared objective of its leaders is the eradication of its neighbor, instead of focusing on building their own state in a peaceful way.

[@spearview]

Ha ha ha. Do you think Israel was built in a peaceful way? They fought the Brits away who helped them to come to that place in the first place.

[@Alex-vo6uo]

All states are founded and maintained though violence and aggression. I thought objectivists understood that.

[@berndholl]

​@@spearview, die Juden begannen erst dann, gegen die Engländer zu kämpfen, als diese dazu übergingen, die jüdische Einwanderung massiv einzuschränken.

[@davidbrown4703]

Very well put, so very true.

[@plo8920]

Modern jews have no connection to ancient jews....this land was original inhabitated by cananites...read cananites genocide by Israelites and occupation of Canan land written in Torah and Bible.... modern jews are converted pagan white European like sepharadi, ashkenazi before Christianity spread in Europe and intermarriage... converted bkack ethopian jews, converted Yemeni jews, converted persian jews, converted, converted indian jews, converted mountain jews, converted Chinese kaifei jews....look these different jews groups face,eyes,hair,body colour 😅... Palestinians are original descendants of ancient canan and jews people's.... original jews converted to Christianity and Islam....Israelis are afraid if dna test , because they have no middle eastern dna so they called European white jews as ashkenazi in dna test but showing dna from Europe 😅 ...Khazar jews Kingdom, ethopian jews Kingdom, Yemeni jews Kingdom converted to Judaism

[@IrishBeerCan]

People making points like these two, don't call out or address the hard facts of the situation. You can label it however you want, call it whatever you want to call it.... People were kicked off land they lived on and now their descendants are cornered, fenced into little areas and treated like 2nd class human beings.

[@cabl3guy2012]

No mention of The Nakba, hmmm

[@lennardchurch8483]

The "Nakba" was the failed attempt by Islamists to murder all of the Jewish people in Israel, after which Israel pushed back the aggressors to establish defensible borders. I'm sick of supporters of the Islamist death-cults pretending that the aggressors are the victims when they face consequences for their crimes.

[@user-up8jx3mt6j]

People don't think and behave, they'll always behave how they feel. That's just the way it currently is.

[@markaxworthy2508]

People were living everywhere in the area shown as green on the first map. However, the density of population varied. For example, the bulk of the Negev was populated by transhumant Bedouins. The fact that they were not "civilized" (in the sense that they did not live in settled urban areas) is irrelevant. It doesn't give urbanised people the right to pretend they were not there and making use of the land, albeit at low population density.

[@theview613]

Most Bedouins are loyal Israeli citizens. They serve in the army, and know that conditions are much better under Israeli rule.

[@njgal0217]

This is an important point you made. Throughout this interesting, and factually correct tho one sided, discussion justifications are given for the Jews occupying land held by Arabs or "Palestinians" based on there being "no state" , areas "not conducive to human life," and there being no "good society" or "just society" or a government that functions that way a government "should" function. This all represents the same western/modern bias that all colonists took when occupying new land where others had been living for years-- not the least of which is our own Native American people. There is a clash of cultures where one culture fails or understand and respect the other. Granted, the violent organizations that have formed over the years, bent on destroying the Jews in Israel, have left the rest of the world no choice but to condemn them and support the Jewish Israeli state, but it is important to understand how it all came to be from a macro historical perspective.

[@theview613]

@@njgal0217 When a lie is repeated often enough, everyone believes it to be true. When there are 2 billion Muslim mouths in the world to repeat the lies, the truth stands little chance.

[@markaxworthy2508]

@@theview613 The Bedouins have never been asked whether they want to be in Israel. Furthermore, such choices are not necessarily based on material considerations. If they were, most Jews migrating to Israel since 1900 would rather have gone to the USA. For now the Bedouins have to make the best of their circumstances.

[@markaxworthy2508]

@@njgal0217 The "violent organisations that have formed over the years" are a response to Israel's overwhelming material military dominance courtesy of the USA. There is no equal playing field for the Palestinians, so their militants instead resort to terrorist tactics, as did the Jews in 1948, when around 800 Palestinian Arab civilians were massacred by what we must regard as Jewish terrorism. Most of the population of Gaza are the descendants of people intimidated into fleeing their homes by these massacres. It also begs the question as to whether the Israeli pilots who have killed several times as many civilians as Hamas recently did are engaged in terrorism. If not, why not?

[@sunny7565]

After destruction of Gaza...after settlers take over...explain how this land acquired by transaction instead of grabbing..

[@lennardchurch8483]

Israel was established on land the Jews legally purchased. All of the rest of the land Israel acquired was a consequence of the Islamist Arabs attacking Israel without provocation, and Israel driving the aggressors back to establish defensible borders, which under the international laws of war is a legal acquisition of land. Nothing was stolen from the Arabs, because you lose the legal right to land when you use it to try to murder a people, and they push you off of it in response to prevent you from succeeding.

[@justktoday0016]

First you need to find out WHO can be stolen from, and what is the definition of stealing.

[@indianhistoryarchaeology]

Two state solution was applied to India and Pakistan too and failed. "From the River to the Sea" is somewhat familiar to us in India with an archaic Islamic WAQF Board staking claim to any land in perpetuity, in the name of Allah. This board has become the third largest landowner in the country - probably more land than Pakistan in acreage! So far, they've claimed temples which are much older than Islam, entire villages where people have been living since generations, and even large parts of our cities! The current Israel/Palestine conflict has brought into focus the sharp differences in our society as well.

[@stevea6816]

well there may have been violence between India and Pakistan but the 2 state solution has pretty much been successful. why do you say it failed?

[@kaamdev810]

​@@stevea6816 Pakistan and muslims living in India are never sstisfied with what they've got..they always want more.. Pakistan want whole of Kashmir and always send terrorists who infiltrate Indian territory..Pakistan is most of the time on the brink of war with India.. extremists muslim organizations in India want to convert the whole country into an Islamic state and get back to medieval times with Mughal empire rule...they often create unrest in areas where they are in majority.. while they already have specific laws in their favour such as Muslim Personal Law...

[@utsavpawar7015]

@@stevea6816 Muslims didn't fully migrate to Pakistan , even after getting separate country .

[@udaygill3937]

​@@utsavpawar7015 Because while Pakistan was meant to be for Muslims, India was meant to be for everyone, including Muslims. 2 state solution has not been perfect (in fact its divided into 3 states now when you include Bangladesh which came from Pakistan) but it has generally been successful.

[@bharatyaswaraj5641]

I wont call it a failure

[@LuisDiuk]

I have been saying this for a long time, I am glad that now there is people who start to denounce the falsehood and deception of this infamous picture

[@alanaronald244]

So have I. And when I've told people that I've lived in Israel & Arabs have equal opportunities, I'm simply not believed.

[@astra8372]

@@alanaronald244 there was an exchange lands peace plan, where the Israeli Arabs lands were supposed to become Palestinian lands. The Israeli Arabs protested against it. Maybe you can use that as an argument. I might not understand some things though.

[@user-kg3tm7ue1s]

​@alanaronald244 because it doesn't fit their Narrative. It's antisemitism plain and simple.

[@ponygirl1716]

@@user-kg3tm7ue1s Sadly, you are correct. That is why the leadership (and many ordinary "Palestinians") will settle for nothing less than the abolition of the state of Israel.

[@user-kg3tm7ue1s]

@@ponygirl1716 how do people not see it?

[@Meerque]

8:50 so did they purchase it or it "was promised/given" to them....

[@lennardchurch8483]

The Jews legally purchased all the land they were able to and established the modern state of Israel on it. They were able to do this because the British Empire lifted restrictions on Jewish immigration into the British Mandate, and gave them permission to declare independence from the British Empire. The Arabs also had permission to establish their own state in the land alongside Israel, but the Arabs never accepted that offer, because they didn't actually want a state there, they just didn't want the Jews to have one.

[@CDoc23]

Wow. The Ayn Rand statement fits perfectly into this perspective. A clip being built into a version of reality, so that arguements have a bases.Quote: He who does not know the past, can not understand the presant, so can not control the future

[@roelofvuurboom5939]

And with the same reasoning I assume he could say that land was never taken from the Native Americans by Europeans because the Native Americans never even had the concept of land ownership.

[@lalumbreras3]

In this case , the natives are the jews!

[@rifaterzrumly5210]

Exactly as I mentioned they were lured to selling and forced into refuge camps in neighboring countries for the last 75 years spent born and died ... children and grandchildren...

[@feelcollins4358]

exactly, colonizer propaganda used to justify their actions

[@samuelhowie4543]

The native Americans fought with each other to control hunting rights to areas of land. That the same thing, control of the land.

[@deeder001]

The Chippewa-Ojibwa in Michigan received a massive pristine land allotment IN VOLUNTARY EXCHANGE for giving up their claims to any lands out side of it. They promptly began to sell it off for the valuable timber. Most of them had squandered it, and their children were then left with no 'tribal home'. People felt sorry for them, so the state of Michigan gave them ANOTHER massive allocation of pristine wilderness, this time placed in TRUST so they could NOT sell it off and squander the money, be broke again in 10 years. This incompetence, corruption, and inter-fighting amongst themselves is ALSO the story for many Native tribes. Many nations/tribes had to have their lands placed into TRUSTS for this reason.

[@elliewall7621]

The bigger context would include a discussion of how muslims, through self initiated war, conquered the Middle East, Northern Africa and most of the Iberian peninsula. The conquered people were coerced and forced to convert to Islam or be oppressed under sharia law. Once a land was conquered it was declared to belong to islam forever, even after the inhabitants succeeded in kicking the muslims out and resuming control of their own land, as happened with the Iberian peninsula.

[@tomorrowisanotherday12]

Well said. It's the same drama, here, in Kashmir. Muslims invaded someone else's land. Then came the British and after the British left, the earlier inhabitants of the land got their land back and the Muslims in Kashmir started playing victims as if the land belonged to them in the first place. They even carried out a genocide of the Hindus but instead claim the Muslims are being eliminated every time a terrorist is killed!

[@ChargerrentalCoandammo]

Look what's happening to Europe. But who's the NGOs, organisations, individuals, lawyer's and groups who are pushing mass immigration into western Europe? Exactly, diversity for everyone but certain people.

[@ArghBlahr]

I assumed all land on this earth have been taken, retaken and then taken by somebody entirely Else at some point, lol. Probably even further back than what our knowledge of history is. So where do we draw the line and say that these or those are the rightful owners of that land?

[@ArghBlahr]

And I dont know enough about the Kashmir conflict, so I just ask; is it possible that the land might even "rightfully belong" to neither Hindus or muslims? Maybe some other ethnic group that was there before both of them had control of that particular land? Who knows...

[@chitosesenri7087]

Stfu Ellie, Muslim this and Muslim that. Every society religion in history has done similar and worst. What's the main point now is the genocide taking place in Gaza. Get off your high horse and see how you'd react after decades of ethnic cleansing by a side with disproportionate military might given be the west.

[@pd39aol]

If we're going to go back in history, let's go far back. [The earliest, written non-religious mention of Israel is on the victory stele of Pharaoh Merneptha, who ruled 1237-1227 B.C.] (Rose Book of Bible Charts, Maps, & Timelines). [The earliest mention of Palestine, comprised of about 14 groups: Denyen, Lukka, Shardanu, Masha, Arianna, Karkisha, Pitassa, Kashka, Akawasha, Tursha, Sheklesh, Peleset (Philistines), Tjekker, and Weshesh. Referred to in Egyptian sources as "sea people," and probably responsible for the demise of the Hittite Empire, capture of Cyprus, rape and ravaging of Ugarit, Alalakh, Carchemish, T. Sukus, Tyre, Sidon, Hazor, Acco, Dor, and other sites on what became to be called the Philistine Plain - southwestern Canaan. Though mentioned in Bible narratives, the only sure conclusion one can reach is that the word "Palestine" as a discrete geographical entity obviously drive deform the Philistines, and did not come into existence as a designation of the land of Israel until the mid-second century (200) A.D. when, as political punishment of the Bar-Kochba revolt, Roman Emperor Hadrian deliberately co-opted the name of Israel's ancient enemies - the Philistines - and Latinized it to create obvious pejorative connotations. In computer research through the Thesaurus Linguae Craecae (University of California at Irvine) for "Palestine" as a proper name in texts written before the end of the first Christian century revealed 196 complete citations in Greek or Latin literature. This search uncovered almost two dozen reference to Palestine dating betewwsn the fight century B.C. and the first century A.D. (pre- Hadrian, 117 A.D. to 138 A.D.) There are other references to Palestine, but there is no reference to the name being older than about 500 B.C. - 700 years after Israel is shown on the victory stele.] (taken from The New Moody Atlas of the Bible, pages 30-33)

[@FeWolf]

he Permanent Court of International Justice (‘PCIJ’) defined conquest as ‘a cause of loss of sovereignty when there is war between two States and by reason of the defeat of one of them sovereignty over territory passes from the loser to the victorious State’ (Eastern Greenland Case at 47). Conquest, strictly so-called, is therefore a derivative title of acquisition of territorial sovereignty (Territory, Acquisition) taking...

[@cbcacbca]

Alot of the young people on the recent march in London need to see videos like this. I've seen quite a few interviews with these people who have no idea of the truth about the reality of the Israeli/Palestinians situation.

[@edwardkeogh1399]

One thing we know 100% is that Israel didn't exist before 1948, and Palestinian people were removed from their homes to make way for the jews

[@itzelouise8714]

The protests are about the murders, then became the demand for Israel to leave Palestine alone!

[@darranwilkins4648]

Yes they do to realise that isrealmis a lying fkin terrorists state determined to wipe out those who own the land you stole

[@way2kul4any1]

They would call this video "zionist propaganda"

[@teresitaestrella4484]

Because they are not aware of the Holy Bible. Israel land will not be lsrael if it is not God who named it after Jacob that the Almighty has named him. Israel is Jacob son of Isaac and brother of lsau whose land is Edom and his people are the Edomites. And lsrael's people are the Jews or lsraelites. Jews after Judah's name son of Jacob that has a part of land in Israel like his siblings name after them.👍🙏

[@matthelm4666]

People have been taking land from each other since the beginning of time. Whoever has the biggest gun can take or keep the land.

[@Wyndham21044]

Then Israel is not practicing Jewish law They are practicing jungle law. While claiming to represent all the Jews of the world . That's effed up

[@nurlindafsihotang49]

I see. If dealing with US and europe, might makes right. Got it. Dont worry, asia and asian are fast learner and we are stubborn.

[@urgandma]

​@@nurlindafsihotang49literally how the world operates, not just the west.

[@dmacarthur5356]

It's The Right of Conquest. It has been around since the day of clubs and spears and will continue until the last two humans inhabit the Earth, or Mars if we get there.

[@behavioraldesign]

To some degree, I agree. But the modern world order, by the UN, is that nations are generally recognized and protected (in a gang-like way), as the normative order. However, what many don't realize is that the UN allows for civil wars, and whoever comes out on top, gets a seat at the UN. So primarily, it's true within nations that the most guns mean legitimacy in many parts of the world, but less true today between nations.

[@markbarrett8180]

Interesting piece. It’s noted that one source of propaganda from one side is countered using (very smart) propaganda from the other. It’s fair to say that Israel DID acquire land legitimately using the legal processes during those times. However in the modern context those processes did have flaws which were exploited by Jewish people at the time. Why would they not of course. That’s an observation not a critique. The fact is that, VERY clearly, serious wrong has been done by BOTH sides in this eternal dispute. Crimes have been committed by BOTH sides. Who could argue differently? Now it is Israel that has the power. The power to destroy and seed the continuation of the killing to next generation OR the power to be instrumental in arriving at a conclusion that in the end can only lead to the region flourishing as it should. Peace will only ever be achieved by talking - wouldn’t it be better to find a path that leads to peace in the region? I don’t think during the past decade or so the state of Israel has filled itself with glory in this. As the internationally recognised state that it is Israel has a responsibility one it has so far failed in. I can only hope that the reasonable people of both sides (of which there are so very many) look to the leadership they have and force that change.

[@dennisdose5697]

Quite helpful. Thank you.

[@TheAvadonna]

Thank you so much for shedding light onto this subject. We are surrounded by ignorance, and most of it is willful ignorance.

[@JessJoanne]

Yes. This was great. I really like Traveling Israel with Oren channel too. He has some great history. Several videos. Between channels like these, and my Smithsonian Book, 'History of the World Map by Map' there is so much history to share. So important. If you're interested, I watched an interview today as well. It is just about October 7th.... On 'Times of India' channel. Titled, ‘Kill men, capture women’: Interrogation Video of 6 Hamas terrorists who invaded Israel on Oct 7

[@plo8920]

Modern jews have no connection to ancient jews....this land was original inhabitated by cananites...read cananites genocide by Israelites and occupation of Canan land written in Torah and Bible.... modern jews are converted pagan white European like sepharadi, ashkenazi before Christianity spread in Europe and intermarriage... converted bkack ethopian jews, converted Yemeni jews, converted persian jews, converted, converted indian jews, converted mountain jews, converted Chinese kaifei jews....look these different jews groups face,eyes,hair,body colour 😅... Palestinians are original descendants of ancient canan and jews people's.... original jews converted to Christianity and Islam....Israelis are afraid if dna test , because they have no middle eastern dna so they called European white jews as ashkenazi in dna test but showing dna from Europe 😅 ...Khazar jews Kingdom, ethopian jews Kingdom, Yemeni jews Kingdom converted to Judaism

[@plo8920]

​@@JessJoanneModern jews have no connection to ancient jews....this land was original inhabitated by cananites...read cananites genocide by Israelites and occupation of Canan land written in Torah and Bible.... modern jews are converted pagan white European like sepharadi, ashkenazi before Christianity spread in Europe and intermarriage... converted bkack ethopian jews, converted Yemeni jews, converted persian jews, converted, converted indian jews, converted mountain jews, converted Chinese kaifei jews....look these different jews groups face,eyes,hair,body colour 😅... Palestinians are original descendants of ancient canan and jews people's.... original jews converted to Christianity and Islam....Israelis are afraid if dna test , because they have no middle eastern dna so they called European white jews as ashkenazi in dna test but showing dna from Europe 😅 ...Khazar jews Kingdom, ethopian jews Kingdom, Yemeni jews Kingdom converted to Judaism

[@AniBAretz]

Yes, too true!

[@AniBAretz]

@@JessJoanne I also follow Oren, and he also does an excellent job presenting real history as opposed to the propaganda that too many people insist on believing.

[@AD-ky2jt]

Theoretically as an Israeli, by definition I am Palestinian and Israel could have been called the Nation of Palestine, but people tend to misunderstand the Arab notion of Palestine and the region called Palestine. Edit: why are people so mad 🤣 I think yall missed the part where I said I am Israeli, was born in Rishon Letzion.

[@pikapi6993]

Palestine is the foreign greek name for the region. Israel is the true name of the region. Like germany and deutschland. but additionally, israel is a name given to the region by God :)

[@zayed2023]

It was Palestine and it'll still Palestine

[@genekivva8118]

@@zayed2023 The P sound is not in arabic language, even today. There is "Palestine" geographic area (greater Judea that Roman emperor had renamed, with a reference to Philistinians, who were not arabic people.) But there are no palestinian people. Yaser Arafat was born in Egypt but his last name points to Saudi Arabia.

[@ananthan8951]

​@@zayed2023I am told even the Koran does not refer to Palestine but only to Children Of Israel. That the Romans who had dispossessed the Jews called it Palestine to humiliate the Jews.

[@omarlittle-hales8237]

Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace. Gospel [Last Testament]: I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but are lying-I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you." Quran [Last Testament]: Towards The Latter Days, The Children Of Israel Will Be Haughty [Except The Pious Versed In Torah].

[@jackiethomas213]

Awesome history lesson! Thanks so much!

[@eva4adam451]

As I understand: In 711ad till 1050 , till the crucades had to start because the arabs and Turks blocked trade from west to east crossing Jerusalem. (+all the other reasons) In 1890 many russian jews bought land in Israël desert from goat herds for their future grand or great grand children. And as jews where good in farming they developped desert farming.

[@rhodaberger7262]

Jews were never farmers. They had to learn. And they bought the land to live on it bc they were escaping pogroms

[@realbad5071]

Go back a little more, almost half a century. Over a couple of hundred years of putting down revolts in the troublesome province of Judea. Rome basically depopulated it .,As a final insult the province was renamed Palestine for the ancient enemies of Israel. This is where and why the name came from while it remained a province of the Empire

[@rhodaberger7262]

Exactly

[@thomasmurray3212]

It might be helpful to discuss in more detail the purchase of land by Jewish settlers.

[@rhodaberger7262]

@@thomasmurray3212 I did visit Israel in 2003 and toured Kibbutz Ramat Rachel. The tour guide explained that it had been purchased 3 times b/c the authorities kept invalidating the deeds. It is a good point that details of the purchases would be helpful. I'm not an academic. But over the years, as this conflict became more visible, I read several books on the history of Israel. When settlers first returned, it was under Ottoman control. And after WWI under British control. Therefore, a Jewish invasion and seizure of land is implausible.

[@TheFilteredLight]

Unless I missed something significant, the takeaway is that the Jewish settlers gained the land through purchase, force and declaration by foreign powers (the UN); the land was acquired and held out of a need for security; and even though the prior occupants of the land are not happy about it, they have been unable to politically, economically, or militarily resolve their situation. Questions: If it is not about ethnicity or race, then why is Israel a "Jewish State"? What are the citizenship rights of a non-Jewish person whose great grandfather lived in this area prior 1948? What kind of economic system was in place prior to the Jewish migration? Did many Palestinian families own their own land or did most people live on land owned by a wealthy landlord? If they did not own the land they lived and farmed on, what happened to those residents when the land was sold out from under them? These are leading questions, but I honestly don't know the answer to them. I just noticed that this type of question was not being addressed in this discussion.

[@lindagruber2232]

Very true.

[@Magneticitist]

You won't find real discourse about those questions on a platform like KZbin. That's because those are the only real sensible questions anyone with an actual moral compass should be asking. There is a bottom line to be had here in my honest opinion.. Israel as a Jewish nation state was being paid for since long before any of our grandparents were born. Long before border declarations. I could mention how it was long written about by well known Zionists.. but then I could literally just refer to one of the oldest books we know to exist and you'll still see it being foretold. Well okay.. a proclaimed 'lineage' wanted to spend a lot of money over time for this state in order to populate it *with foreign Jews... Was it all worth it? Why?

[@brendanmontgomery87]

Those questions are not addressed in the discussion because, if they were, it would undermine the notion that Israel did not steal the land.

[@justinterk1507]

Good questions. Citizens in israel proper (not west bank or gaza as it is not governed by israel) have equal rights regardless of religion. 2 million muslims live in israel and they all have voting rights, opportunities for good jobs (arabs are in israeli government and even supreme courts etc), same schools and same spaces for everyone. There are tensions between religions sometimes and with certain people as there are in any country, however they have equal rights. As for economy prior to 1948, there wasnt much. The land was always a colony (britain, ottoman, arabic empire etc) ever since the romans took the land from the jews in 74AD. Not much going on there and was really built up by israelis after ‘48. As for the landlords and tenants of the lands i cannot give you an informed accurate answer i am unsure to be honest.

[@HugeRademaker]

1. It is called a Jewish state, because of origin: Jews had been murdered in the Diaspora - also well before WWII. ALL citizens of Israel have the same rights and everyone can vote. Money and street signs are in Arabic too. Arabs have mosks, they own shops and political parties. 2. Large parts of the British mandate area where inhabitable, as mentioned in the video. No one lived there. Still Jewish settlers/kibbutzniks succesfully transformed small areas into orchards and such. These pieces of land were legally purchased.

[@paulettehutterer4588]

1)Before the modern state of Israel there was the British mandate, Not a Palestinian state . 2) Before the British mandate there was the ottoman empire, Not a Palestinian state . 3) Before the ottoman empire there was the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt, Not a Palestinian state . 4)Before the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt there was the ayyubid dynasty, Not a Palestinian state .Godfrey of bouillon conquered it in 1099. 5) Before the ayyubid dynasty there was the christian kingdom of Jerusalem, Not a Palestinian state . 6) Before the christian kingdom of Jerusalem there was the Fatimid caliphate, Not a Palestinian state . 7) Before the Fatimid caliphate there was the byzantine empire, Not a Palestinian state . 😎 Before the byzantine empire there was the Roman empire, Not a Palestinian state . 9) Before the Roman empire there was the hasmonean dynasty, Not a Palestinian state . 10)Before the hasmonean dynasty there was the Seleucid empire,Not a Palestinian state . 11) Before the Seleucid empire there was the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon, Not a Palestinian state . 12) Before the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon there was the Persian empire, Not a Palestinian state . 13) Before the Persian empire there was the Babylonian empire, Not a Palestinian state . 14) Before the Babylonian empire there was the kingdoms of Israel and Judea, Not a Palestinian state . 15) Before the kingdoms of Israel and Judea there was the kingdom of Israel, Not a Palestinian state . 16) Before the kingdom of Israel there was the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel, Not a Palestinian state . 17) Before the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel there was the individual state of Canaan, Not a Palestinian state . In fact in this corner of the earth there was everything but a Palestinian state! Origins @voiceofisrael

[@yakirlevy9371]

yes!

[@kishiyomo993]

People don't magically disappear, and change their skin colour after they've been conquered. People didn't lose rights to their land after converting to Islam. The Christians and their holy sites were protected under Islamic rule. These only changed after the Zionists established their illegal occupation and pushed out the locals towards Gaza

[@matkasim]

before 1947, there was no Israel. Just Palestine . check the 1908 Bibles

[@occupant9778]

@@colinbrown7305 Transjordan got 80% of what was once Israel. At the time of the UN discussion, Arab/Muslim nations opposed it based on Islamic rule (once conquered by Islam, it must always be Muslim land, see Andalusia/Spain), and said nothing about a "Palestinian" people except that there were none. From 1948-1967, Gaza was controlled by Egypt and Judea/Samaria by Jordan. "Palestinians" never complained of occupation. Israel is 0.04% of the ME. They have no land to trade and Islam has no peace to offer.

[@chrismalcomson7640]

The nation state is quite a modern concept drawn up by colonial powers, especially in this region. Israel is a nation because the mechanisms exist to declare it so. In the past it was all about your ability to defend and rule an area under your control, thats what defined your borders..

[@stevenm3141]

When sectioning land it creates division. In any country of multiple groups of people all the people live in all of the country! A country cannot be productive if there is division. The important thing to understand is there can only be one government to run the country. The term "all for one,one for all "comes to mind. All the people must agree to the common rule of one government to work.

[@tahwnikcufos]

It's never about who lives there, it's always about who it's ruled by.

[@spicrown]

Yeah the arabs wanted to rule over it. But at we all know how democracy and freedom there is in arabic countries… Every single human rather live in israel and not “palestine” ruled by islamic jihad on a different universe

[@aminebrahmi8034]

Reallyy ?? So who lives there isnt important ? That's how u explain the nakba and 1948 right ?

[@Zombiesbum]

@@aminebrahmi8034 Yes and no. Would you say Alaska is not part of USA? Or would you say it is still Russian? After all, people with Russian heritage still live there. Land is ruled by individuals in a very simple sense, and we tend to call those monarchies. The interviewee's argument is misleading, ironic considering he's complaining about an image being misleading.

[@suezbell1]

Owners choose.

[@tahwnikcufos]

@@aminebrahmi8034 You obviously didn't understand the comment...

[@danielklee2933]

As an archeologist and historian, it is easy to see through these lies.

[@Decepticon123]

I always heard that there was a land called Palestine that was populated by Jews and Arabs but no people that were called Palestinians.

[@turbotambourine]

Though I get the point you’re trying to make even with the first frame of the map, I’m confused at the delineation that you’re suggesting that we take in which we would only show the population densities of Palestinians and Israeli’s. To say a place is only owned by those that have ownership on the land, you would then need for the governance of the land to be equal or benign. The same would suggest that I could then move to an uninhabited part of land and lay claim to it today in northern Canada. We know this simply isn’t true because there is ownership in sorts over the land. I would need to purchase this land.

[@katyouliaumedman4507]

why not say that 2 million Arab-Muslims live in Israel; 0 Jews live in Arab countries

[@kusnovakusnova3819]

For the third panel, I will use Canada as the example. Even though the land/area of Canada is wide, but the most populated areas are only a few

[@one2toomany]

Now imagine America taking some of Canadas uninhabited land, and claiming it's theirs simply because no one lives there now, or Canada isn't using it properly. That's Israel taking land.

[@maxter000]

Don't believe this video is very well documented that since 1948 Israel destroyed over 500 Palestinian villages

[@tundelarsson7817]

Your comments are hidden for some reason.

[@maxter000]

So sickk seeing "educated" people spreading misinformation in favor of a country that is actually committing genocide or to justify injustice ISRAEL IS NOT BETTER THAN NAZI GERMANY , PEOPLE READ INVESTIGATE ON YOUR OWN AND USE YOUR BRAIN ALL THIS IS VERY WELL DOCUMENTED..

[@kusnovakusnova3819]

@@tundelarsson7817 I don't hide anything?

[@Fogaata]

I didn't think I would be convinced but I was, great argument.

[@williamwhitaker219]

Did private entities own every square foot of the green territory in map#1? If the land was owned by empires, did the empire sell it and was the sale fair and legitimate? Have the people officially adopted the concept of the nation state? Why were the Palestinians rejecting the U.N. Partion plan? To what extent was the UN bullying? After the holocaust, why not form a Jewish state in New Mexico?

[@reddeercanoe]

Mr. Journo should make a map showing the desert that Israel converted into productive farmland. I think the world needs to know that Israel has taken land of no value and made it into paradise. Now Palestinians want this land.

[@aliensoup2420]

Israel created a prosperous, productive, and inclusive society from nothing. 1/5 of Nobel Prize winners are Jewish, but only 1 is Palestinian, which was Arafat who broke the peace shortly after receiving the award. Palestinians would do themselves an incalculable favor by peacefully joining Israel in a single state solution.

[@chandrashekharkalyanaraman5224]

​@@aliensoup2420Nobel Peace Prize is a joke. Please, let's not talk of the Peace Prize in the same breath as the other Nobel Prizes. Doing so brings down the overall reputation of the Nobel prizes.

[@zayed2023]

Totally agree But don't you know that palestine were living in these desert before Israel kick them and turn it to paradise they didn't ask Israel a lot they just want thir land no one cares whether it were desert or forst or paradise

[@Leo_Pard_A4]

​@zayed2023 not their land anymore. The Arabs started 3 wars and lost them all, and if you start wars and then lose them, the borders may change. Take a look at the maps of Europe from before and after the two world wars.

[@denissijecic5164]

​@Leo_Pard_A4 its just that after ww2 the world decided that nobody can keep land they invade.

[@JonathanDavidSharpe]

I feel like I finally learned something about this conflict, for once. Right on!👍 Thanks, Elan.

[@kathleendwyer117]

You will not find any Palestinian coins or artifacts in Israel but you will find Jewish coins and artifacts in Israel

[@slavkocicak5322]

This fact of yours truly acknowledges and supports Israel's war on the 2,3 million Palestinians in Gaza, and any killing of civilians is hereby excused

[@pemithmithsara7632]

@@slavkocicak5322Y E S

[@ronjon7942]

Interesting point.

[@BlackTakGolD]

@@slavkocicak5322 At no point did he say "And thus it is righteous," does a mere factoid rile your bad faith this badly?.

[@johanneslock2142]

​@@slavkocicak5322remind me again, who started this war on oct. 7??

[@user-tp2ri5wj6m]

Thank you. Nicely presented.

[@dominionphilosophy3698]

If you want to argue this convincingly, show maps of occupation in the area. THAT would be useful.

[@cantrell0817]

Excellent overview of the conflict. I wish they'd discussed the fact that 20% of Israel's population is Muslim (Druze, Bedouins mostly). I want to better understand how they stayed in Israel and live peacefully, yet Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza aren't doing so well.

[@dasstraat]

Over 60 years ago, Israel attracted many Arabic people to work for them, They turned swamp land in a nice country. The arablans (not palestines) had a good life in Israel and were needed to build the country. It's the only country that has peace, minimum death rates and an honest government. In other countries, most Jewish were killed.

[@suncat991]

And the Druze etc … Muslim by force…. The people of those lands were coerced/forced via the Muslim Conquests .. and beyond.. up to present day… Islam is the problem.

[@cantrell0817]

@@dasstraat Ok, that helps. I didn't know that many Muslims migrated into Israel. Now it makes sense why they live peacefully. They literally want to be there.

[@dasstraat]

@@cantrell0817 Countries like Qatar and Saoudi Ariabia need 10 million guest workers this year. All people from Gaza could go there and get a rewarding job. However, first law of hamas tells them to kill Israel, so they prefer to live in the desert and shoot rockets at Israel. I don't understand many things.

[@bobbrereton4785]

No mention of the well documented state of apartheid that many reputable political leaders have said Palestinians live under. This conflict will never be settled. The current leadership in Israel is incompetent and in Netanyahu’s case, criminally corrupt, bears much responsibility for allowing Hamas to easily burst through Israel’s slipshod defenses. Why was Bibi asleep at the wheel. The US continues to prop up the world’s fourth most powerful nuclear nation with billions and billions in aid.

[@jimpeters3328]

My dad told me in the 1970s they’ve been throwing rocks at each other for thousands of years, if you think they will stop in your lifetime you are a fool.

[@Difop]

Well I guess I'm a fool for not taking History lessons from some rando's dad

[@alexrubin5955]

Yes you are @@Difop

[@fotis3v480]

​@@Difopuneducated tr4sh will be uneducated tr4sh. Add religion on top and you get Palestine.

[@Difop]

@@fotis3v480 Such an educated remark

[@rebekah5058]

Mohammed was born in the 7th century, so maybe not thousands of years.

[@nirbittan1036]

very good and informative video, but something is missing in the map - the Golan heights , a recognized Israeli land.

[@murmur3970]

So if a country has a desert it does not belong to that people.

[@lolitairong1488]

Thank you, gentlemen, for the crystal-clear discussion/explanation of the cause why until now the Palestinians are stateless. I'm 78 years old and the facts given echoed the same facts I learned in my World History class in my last year in secondary school--the same facts I learned as a History major in my bachelor's in the university. If young people in universities, including the prestigious Harvard U are massing the streets all over the world chanting "We standby with the Palestinian cause--Free Palestine rhetoric", where lies the disinformation, aside from fake news/media now flooding the internet? Education gone awry, horrendously wrong! When students basically learn from leftist, woke professors for their stock knowledge, because they lack the diligence to educate themselves by reading to know, find the truth--this happens!

[@donquijotedelamancha3529]

Why the need to politicize your comment by bringing up "leftist woke professors?"

[@maxmeister5064]

I go so far as saying a Palestinian people doesn't exist at all. The Gaza and Westbank people are, if not Jewish, Egyptian, Jordanian, Syrian, Libanese. The "Palestinian people" is an invention of Jassir Arafat.

[@andrewlisciandrello6920]

Do some research on the Nakba. Then ask yourself why these two gentlemen didn't use the word, didn't mention it or refute any of the documented atrocities, and lied about the war in 48. Why do you think these two gentlemen decided to ignore one of the key issues when discussing Palestinian and Israeli relations? Do you really think that this video left you informed about the situation, when all they really did was echo the propaganda from one side?

[@vintagepipesnightmares]

@@andrewlisciandrello6920bravo sir 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@Chris-sz9vr]

@@andrewlisciandrello6920 Jews were expelled from the west bank (ruled by Jordan) and the Gaza strip ( ruled by Egypt ) in greater numbers than Palestinian Nakba. I only respond to your post for clarity sake.

[@alanedostie7861]

It would be helpful if you showed an accurate first map that shows where no people lived.

[@RagingRob]

Lol

[@WorldifySanity]

That included most of the land. Hundreds of thousands of Arabs poured into the land to work for the British from 1920-1947.

[@artmaven43]

The Arab surrounding armies were so confident that they could easily conquer the Jews who had no armed forces since the 2nd Cent. AD, that they were shocked when the Jews fought back so well. One becomes an amazing warrior when you are going to be killed or pushed into the sea. The Jews prevailed as they had no other choice.

[@Aldrik001]

Let's change the objectives. Instead of claiming land for yourself, let's aim to find peace and prosperity for every person living in that area and beyond. Let's also abandon the concept of revenge. The latter is the root cause of many conflicts. Let's move beyond that to a brighter future.

[@christophercoupe5006]

A noble case but good luck getting palestinians to live peacefully anywhere!!!

[@rogercotton5134]

The Hamas charter calls for the genocide of Israelis. The Palestinians teach their children to view Jews as "apes, dogs, nd pigs'. They also support Hamas. They have also turned down previous offers of peace and a Two-state Solution. So, there is zero chance of moving beyond their hate and violence.

[@kellbell8198]

AMEN 🙏🕊️🙏

[@kellbell8198]

​@christophercoupe5006 it was peaceful before just like Iran was until our government and others started putting in power a dictatorship for embezzlement of money, minerals and a military industrial crooked complex 😡😤😡

[@kellbell8198]

​@@christophercoupe5006 that way they could blame it on Holy wars 🤔😡🤦

[@holysimchas]

What in important truth being spoken here.

[@Fahrid2]

I still remember well a quote by my fellow Dutchman, Jew, Lawyer, Teacher, Zionist and finally Anti-Zionist Jacob Israël de Haan. As a correspondent in Palestine for the Rotterdamsche Courant in the 1930-ties he wrote: "The Jewish people may be a people without a homeland, but Palestine certainly is not a land without a people". He was murdered around 1936 by the Haganah when he left his synagogue in Jerusalem.

[@seanericson907]

Excellent quote. Ty

[@HJB390]

👏👏👏

[@TBD3.0]

Very well said. And from that group (i.e. Hagana) the Stern gang was created to terrorize the locals, even Albert Einstein wanted nothing to do with them he knew the truth.

[@bernardbeaudreau7330]

Yup, the UN created a state for a stateless people by creating a stateless people.....problem solved...????? The West is collectively to blame for the current crisis in Palestine!

[@GODSSON810810]

Thank you for helping people to wake up. I find it very interesting that any video you see online of members of Islam who convert to Christianity all state that Israel was not the problem, and Islam was. If this was an issue over land, I don’t think their religion would make any difference in regards to their views on Israel. This has nothing to do with land, and has everything to do with religious ideology. You can’t reach a peaceful solution with a neighbour if their sole purpose is your destruction!

[@user-scienceislove]

is the native americans muslims

[@arwasaadawy3346]

How is it a problem with Islam? I don’t know what you know about Islam but Islam doesn’t cause problems. Another thing is that there is that there is Christian and Jewish Palestinians and a lot of jewish are not accepting what Israel is doing so don’t think Israel represents the Jewish.

[@den264]

Total nonsense ! Like the people who constantly said the Northern Ireland conflict was about religion. It was about the racist Planagenet kings and Oliver Cromwell invading Ireland and handing over choice lands and estates to mostly Scottish and English noblemen who helped the English crown defeat France and Spain. The fact that England was a Protestant nation and Ireland a Catholic nation is incidental.

[@jlw6030]

​@@user-scienceislovenope, I've never met a native American Muslim and I live around a significant population of Native Americans with a lot being close friends. Never heard of any of their extended families or other friends having anything to do with islam

[@tristanloveday5240]

​@@den264 Have you read the 1988 HAMAS charter? What does Islam say regarding Jews? Sahih Al-Buhkari 2629 - Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

[@molaeri]

This is a well reasoned discussion, but it is clearly partisan to hold up one set of beliefs over another . It suffers by guilt of omission of many facts as well.

[@turkaan]

15:46 Independence war ? It was a defensive war from what i understood.

[@artmaven43]

That is true, as all the Arab countries tried to invade the Israeli area and push them into the sea; "From the river to the sea," that is what it means.

[@BravoVSAlpha]

@@artmaven43 just no. "From Jordan to the Sea" was originally an Israeli phrase about how all the land would be Israeli

[@morry27jd24]

I used to think Israel had a lot to be blamed for. Over the past few weeks I have ignored mainstream media and leftist commentators and did my own research- that is the very reason I am watching videos like this one. I no longer see Israel as the perpetrator.

[@garyrowe58]

Do you agree with the settlers?

[@morry27jd24]

Expand ?

[@mjazzguitar]

That is good to hear in light of all the antisemitic mobs rioting all over the world.

[@dasstraat]

I agree with you, I was also negative about Israel. But now it seems the only land in the middle east without war. Genesis 15 in my bible tells that God promised from the Nile to the Eufraat for Israel.

[@user-bk9fk2tq2z]

@@dasstraat Christianity and the Bible are both fake.

[@ThomasGMcElwain]

Valuable as historical parallels certainly are, it becomes tiresome when they are abused in defense of exploitation, hostility, and violence in the here and now. My personal experience in the region between the Jordan and the Mediterranean is limited to a few weeks and a hundred or so conversations with local Christians, Muslims, Druses and Jews. What struck me above all was the extraordinary kindliness of all of the people I met there. It is something they have in common.

[@InnocentiusLacrimosa]

Looking at all the horrors that they are doing to each other, I would say that the kindness you saw in them is just a one tiny fragment of the reality of their culture.

[@franzmuller235]

@@InnocentiusLacrimosa No, it's the very nature of the people there, as long as they are not indoctrinated in one direction or the other by religious extremists.

[@LDillon]

@@InnocentiusLacrimosa The horrors the *governments* are doing to the people. I suspect the people Thomas met were not in positions of political power, but were actual, normal individuals. The real people, suffering on both sides of a conflict that they never wanted.

[@arugono]

​@@LDillonoften the problems in Palestine are due to the regional powers such as Iran and Syria not wanting peace. The people are not seen as people but as fodder to be sacrificed for the glory of Iran and it's "superior" Muslims. The solution to the Palestinian problem could be negotiated by both sides but that would mean Arab nations having to take in Palestinians (a people with a tendency to start civil wars within their host nations) or accept Israel is able to live in peace and become recognised. When jihad is used more literally than spiritually, the people will think physical war is more important than spiritual warfare. The idea of our time on Earth is only moment combined with the reward system (rightly or falsely translated) creates a religion that chooses bloodshed over peace. It's easier to kill than to change yourself to become a better person.

[@andrew_owens7680]

They always did. Contrary to propaganda, those people got along fairly well prior to Zionism. There were 270,000 Jews in Morocco before the Zionist organizations convinced most of them to leave. They now return to Morocco every vacation and some are starting to buy land again. I've even seen Menorahs on display in the shops in Marrakesh to attract Jewish customers. When King Hassan II died, Jewish mourners in Israel honored him.

[@shutterbugshea]

Very important information...Thank you

[@shawnwhitehead3062]

Throughout the years of Palestinians have attacked Israel Time After Time they were offered a deal in 1948 and they rejected that deal and have been at War ever since they've proven the fact that Israel needs that space to defend itself

[@makylemur7019]

The palestinian rejectionism goes back to 1937 when their leadership rejected the Peel plan which gave the palestinians 3/4 of the Palestine mandate territory.

[@-_a-a_-]

It was their land. They didn't have to accept anything. I know the white man thinks he's God Almighty, but the U.S. would NOT have tolerated America being carved up by the U.N. for another people. Why wasn't land taken off Germany?

[@thekauders567]

5 times offered a pace deal and 5 times they said No

[@edres7563]

Is it true that the majority of Arabs who were living inside the area that became the Israeli State in 1948, were expelled by Israel and fled to Gaza?

[@omarlittle-hales8237]

Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace. Gospel [Last Testament]: I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but are lying-I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you." Quran [Last Testament]: Towards The Latter Days, The Children Of Israel Will Be Haughty [Except The Pious Versed In Torah].

[@stringsattacked]

Fun how this sequence completely leaves out '67 to '82. But that wouldn't fit the narrative.

[@maulanida6426]

I don't know... Let's set his theory to my nation. Before 1945, there was no Indonesia's government. It was just local people living in their homeland under Dutch occupied. So there wasn't indonesian land and Dutch had right to take and rule the land. After 1945, Indonesian people chase away Dutch from the land. So did it mean Indonesian rob the land from The Owner/Dutch or Indonesian get back their land from Dutch occupies?

[@MrMarket1987]

Yeah, the whole "This nation didn't exist there before that one, therefore that one gets to claim it" is a terrible slippery slope meant to excuse blatant colonialism and conquest of the past and present. Not to mention awfully segregationist. While a crude analogy, there's a reason Squatters Rights is a thing in some places where if a property very plainly and explicitly has no one claiming ownership for a long time, then whoever was there for a long time since gets to keep it... Obviously it has to be something that comes about without hostilities, because then it doesn't matter how many decades went by, if you stole it, you stole it. But if no hostilities were ever involved or a deal was made and accepted? Then the deal is to be respected. I mean for goodness sakes, the USA once did something called the Louisiana Purchase. With all the external funding Israel gets, I am pretty dang sure they could literally just BUY the land from the people still living in Gaza so they could maybe move out with their new riches; It could save on so much heartache, literally and figuratively.

[@motokaichou2010]

Yes, we DID rob the land from the Dutch. We were literally groups of terrorists living in the Indonesian jungle. It was ONLY when we are recognized as an independent state, recognized by multiple nations INCLUDING the Dutch themselves that we are no longer legally categorized as terrorist/armed organization groups and legally recognized as the country Indonesia.

[@motokaichou2010]

That is why recognition from other countries are equally important as declaring independence. You can declare your independence as many times as you want but without other nations recognizing your independence, you are still legally by law. A land without sovereignty

[@MrMarket1987]

@@motokaichou2010 Er... I feel you're mixing two matters there. You don't need to be recognized by another state to BE a Sovereign state, what you need is to be established yourself in general on your own terms, and ready and willing to fend off another Sovereignty out to take yours down. The idea that people can just conquer lands because they DON'T respect the Sovereignty of other tribes or countries is how we got to this hot mess we call "civilized society" with so many lingering tensions abroad, since many times it came up through hostilities and being forced to take things in stride since, rather than plain organic mingling of people on amicable terms. Second, you did NOTHING to address the matter of the Dutch taking the land the Indonesians were on in the first place that the other fella pointed out, you're just claiming it belonged to the Dutch and it was taken from them instead till they were forced to play along. Maybe, I dunno, actually elaborate on that and not just say you folks just spawned out from the jungles as terrorists in a vacuum...? Feels like you left out a lot of details in-between.

[@motokaichou2010]

@@MrMarket1987 The Dutch came into the Nusantara archipelago before the existence of Indonesia during the colonialism era and established their claim to some parts of the islands on Nusantara during which they also fought and divide and conquer native minor Javanese kingdoms at the time. At some time later before/during WW2 (i forgot the exato time) the Dutch left their Nusantara colonies to the mercy of Imperial Japan. At which Japan decided to give the land for the native to declare their own independence basically building their own nation. Of course the notion doesn't sit well with the Dutch as the Nusantara land was initially (legally) theirs and thus they believe its their right on what to do with it. I am not exactly a historian and that's what basically happens. The over-glorification of our revolution heroes led us to believe that the colonization and occupation of Indonesia by Dutch and Japan brings nothing but misery while in reality without them we will never even have a united archipelago.

[@SesameMilk]

I hope this civilized and intellectual podcast would recieve the exposure it rightly deserves

[@juliannaruffini]

I hope not fake news it is not in accordance with International law

[@cekuhnen]

Radicals won’t listen

[@ashleyfield63]

There is literally historical film footage of troops driving nearly 1 million Arabs off their land at the point of a gun to establish an Israeli state. If you are not familiar with the history please check out the history of the 'Nakba', the term used to describe the ethnic cleansing of the region which began in 1948.

[@cekuhnen]

@@ashleyfield63 cherry picking events isnt helpful when you need to see all events in context.

[@stopato5772]

@@ashleyfield63 Exactly. The Zionist will turn a blind eye to their own terrorism. It was Zionist own firebrand terrorism in 1946-1948 that we witnessed on October 7th 2023

[@WaxPaper]

You're kidding yourself if you think every family was paid fair market value for their land, or even given a choice.

[@nbud7718]

13:30 Ridiculous claim that a good society or a just society is the basis for who is entitled to a claim for statehood. Of course we want good and just societies, but we have to wait until we can provide perfect justice before we are entitled to statehood?!😂 Well, what can I expect from the Ayn Rand folks?

[@shlomomarkman6374]

The term "Palestinian/Palestine" during the Mandate era was referring to all inhabitants of the land, more so it was referring to Jews more then to Arabs. If there was an internet back in1938 and you could Google the flag of Palestine back then you would get either the Mandate flag based on the union jack or a Zionist flag which differed from the modern Israel flag by having only two stripes and the star in gold. There were entities like "Palestine railways","Palestine electric company",Palestine Potash company","Anglo-Palestine Bank" or "Palestine Post". Those have no connection to Arabs and with exception of the railways that were owned by the British government were Jewish owned corporations with continuous relation to the current major companies- Israel Railways,Israel electric company,Dead sea works,Leumi Bank and Jerusalem Post.

[@illumine1911]

Well said, well written. Teach these numskulls here who have not learnt any history, or else who want to re-write it in the style of Hitler, Stalin, Communist China, and other despots

[@stopato5772]

It came from the Romans, who referred those that stayed. Keep in mind the entire world embraced and supported Jews. It was the programs and Holocaust that sent them back to the land that was already occupied by Palestinian Arabs and Jews living in harmony. The Zionists want to cleanse the land of Palestinian Arabs, of Canaan descent. They are murdering their own family.

[@mjazzguitar]

The Jerusalem Post was called The Palestine Post.

[@maxheadroom224]

​@@mjazzguitarYour reading comprehension is poor. He is the listing former names of the companies then the current names.

[@mjazzguitar]

@@maxheadroom224 I know. I was adding one more example.