Unrealism: the Key to Immersion

[@tyerannical3650]

So that's why Mark Zuckerberg creeps me out.

[@danielsimmich1858]

Honestly I’m the teen who has an aneurism if my phone is taken away from me so she isn’t wrong but like you can just tell that line was written by a 37 year old man with a large Beatles record collection and has watched the entire Star Trek series 7 times over

[@meinerHeld]

w wait...whatyoo sayin about beatles and trek?

[@DrawingExercises-q2d]

Employing stereotypes always causes discrimination as a result.

[@danielsimmich1858]

Scott Forbes ah yes, the most vulnerable members of society ... 37 year old men. I forgot that Trekkie is a slur

[@DrawingExercises-q2d]

I'm okay, you're okay. Everyone has feelings, even very strong feelings, sometimes.

[@clichyx]

He's a 48 year old actually

[@moe5541]

Your 17? I thought you were in your mid 20s lol

[@Damigons]

You're* and also add hyphen in mi- okay I spent too much time on the internet for today

[@mrAbdo89]

like what else would you spend your time on ..

[@020halo]

He’s lil pump v2

[@lukess.s]

You're

[@Ryanin2D]

*Yerrp

[@Ooshy]

So to sum this up: don't watch films about topics you're an expert in, because you'll spot mistakes and it will bother you. Or at least know that will happen ahead of time.

[@monotonesessions5917]

Ooshy Yea I was about to say something similar. This is a well made video no doubt and good job to the creator but essentially you are right. Certain topics of film may have technical inaccuracies. Does that make it a poor film? No. Obviously not. Does that give it an uncanny valley feeling? Also no. This would also mean that films set at night out side would almost certainly be very difficult to see/pitch black, but does that mean they should be? No of course not. We couldnt see the movie then. Likewise punches would barely make a sound yet without sound effects would lack any real impact. Does that mean it veers into uncanny valley? Interesting video but i think it misses the point. Once again being only 17 that isnt surprising.

[@monotonesessions5917]

Also one more point. EVERY SINGLE film doesnt feature realistic dialogue either, because in real life people often talk over each other and tend to use words like um etc to give themselves time to think. Does that take away from film? No.

[@shelbymoore6956]

Yes exactly! I was about to comment on this. Film essentially distills human experience down to the conversational aspects of whatever situation is being portrayed and it's disingenuous to say that film is 100% accurate to actual human experience. Otherwise it would be like watching an unedited, off-the-cuff twelve hour vlog which would be boring. No one wants reality in film. Except maybe this kid.

[@Breakhammer82]

Ooshy I understand what he is trying to say, but at the same time I don’t see the point. The immersion is still there wether or not it’s accurate. Honestly doesn’t take away from the film even if it aims to be “accurate”.

[@Ooshy]

Berlin Lopez That's exactly what the video argues against though. He's saying it messes up his immersion. :) You can disagree. I just summarised his point.

[@jayandrews807]

I can't believe you're seventeen. . .

[@zebedeezing4181]

Jay Andrews Can we be seventeen? Is that so hard to do?

[@logand450]

Why not?

[@a.b.2909]

same, its bc of his voice and how he speaks

[@theredrighthandproductions]

Because Determination That would be beautiful.

[@princesslulu5795]

Same he’s wise beyond his years

[@moongem4489]

The problem I have with this is the whole thing about realistic dialogue - not all teenagers speak the same way. Obviously there are movies/shows where the dialogue is super stilted or weird and not how anyone actually talks, but nitpicking minute speech details doesn't really make sense to me because everyone speaks in a different way. Because my best friend and I spend so much time together, we influence the way the other speaks, and our conversations have a certain sound and pattern. However, when I hear other students talking, they might sound anywhere from slightly different to completely different. I once sat near a group of kids at my school talking at lunch and for five whole minutes I barely knew what they were saying because their vernacular and speech patterns were nothing like mine or my friends. I've also noticed that a lot of kids talk in a way that would still feel stilted or odd on camera or just plain annoying to watch and hear, and even if thats the reality of it, people who don't have that experience would think it's off because they personally can't relate.

[@Animenite97]

I agree. The best teen anything are when they write the characters not like teens, but like people. This is good advice when writing in general. Write your character like people, not like [insert archetype here]

[@ProMrLecoq01]

Adam Collier teens are people? Im confused

[@618033988749]

@@Animenite97 Underrated comment.

[@sunburn8273]

@@SimonWoodburyForget Then literally every teen film ever will forever be in the uncanny valley.

[@tvsonicserbia5140]

The key in teen movies is to feel timeless, if you try to make it too contemporary, you will fail no questions about it

[@hotpinkfreak101]

TvSonic Serbia completely agree

[@sophial6258]

degrassi

[@meli.320]

The Breakfast Club, imo

[@MoooseBlood]

Who says "mouth breathers" unironically or not referencing Stranger things. I cringed so hard at that, HayZeus Kreesto.

[@TheMasterQuests]

I've never heard anyone say :mouth breather" until I saw Stranger things,

[@Beatness121]

I think it's a regional thing. I've heard people say it where I live.

[@hillary4372]

Glee! I love Sue

[@Dead_Goat]

Pretty common insult when I grew up. Girls used to say it about boys they did not like. A lot of those movies are accurate to high school I remember however they often have dialogue that would never exist. Also they exaggerate the parties and events for entertainment purposes.

[@jamecia90s]

Look up mouth breathers and you will see why omg

[@Baby-zs6ij]

That would makes sense as to why Breakfast Club has been so acclaimed to being the most "teen" like movie. Most of the scenes were done by improv and half the cast was actually the age of their characters. Gives you something to think about.

[@JanInGameWTF]

The first thing our script writting professor told us was: "No one makes writes realistic scripts because no one cares about your realistic life" I think that sums it up pretty well.

[@yermamuwu6196]

One movie that I thought did teenagers pretty well was the 2017 "It." Not exactly teenagers today but they feel timeless/realistic to me.

[@Dielawn69]

Yet, I've heard people say "Kids don't curse that much derp" haha. I guess my memory is warped because they definitely reminded me of how my friend group acted at their age. People just need to realize that their own personal experience isn't the only experience.

[@wackywally69420]

pelleman02wb yeah preteen boys swear an absurd amount like all the time. Just not around adults. Tbh so do girls.

[@meemers7897]

We're the same age but your KZbin video is more put together than my life.

[@isas1880]

This video put into words a lot of feelings I’ve had but didn’t know how to enunciate. I’m 16 and I hate most high school shows and movies for the exact same reason. It didn’t feel natural. Others have crazy plots but felt like something so relatable. Some movies fell short because they tried so hard to be possible real world situations (edge of 17) but didn’t feel real because of how they’re written. I liked heathers because it’s such an out there plot but the dialogue feels fitting with the almost cartoonish feel of the whole movie. The only other shows or movies I’ve found that got it more or less right were Freaks and Geeks, Ladybird (the surreal feel helped it a lot- it took itself as seriously as it was, no more no less), Clone High(another crazy out there plot but felt genuine), Daria, some episodes of My so Called Life and Dope. Does anyone know of any more?

[@DeathnoteBB]

Bella Saladbar My highschool life was never social enough to feel too dissonate from the absurdity of teen movies. For all I knew that's what it was like. At worst I liked them because they were what I wished my life was like.

[@thirteenfury]

I recommend The Sandlot, IT (2017 version), The Goonies, Pretty in Pink, Sixteen Candles, Superbad, Ten Things I Hate About You, Drool, Bend It Like Beckham, and Skins (UK version). A lot of these have really outlandish plots and some of the characters are more likely pre-teens or college kids, but the interactions between characters feels very realistic. One movie that isn't a teen movie at all but has surprisingly realistic teenagers is National Lampoon's European Vacation.

[@princesslulu5795]

thirteenfury oh my gosh I love the goonies and Superbad! I remember seeing Superbad when it came out (it came to theaters when I was in the 7th grade) & it was really big among my peers. There was a student in my grade who looked almost exactly like the actor who plays Fogel/McLovin but with blond hair like it was uncanny.

[@omnibussy]

season 2, episode 10 of Atlanta - FUBU. that is the single most accurate portrayal of my middle school experience (2003-2007), period. you can tell it was written by someone who went to public school in the time the episode takes place, from setting to wardrobe to plot to dialogue, it's legit perfect. I had severe deja vu watching it and I didn't even go to school in atl

[@athenac9072]

same! I loved ladybird, freaks and geeks, and dope and really feel like these are exceptions to the uncanny valley/bad feeling of other movies/shows. Also an obvious choice but Clueless is so good even though it seems sugarcoated but maybe that's why it's good? Like because it's not similar to most peoples real lives.

[@catboynestormakhno2694]

The teenage series where i feel its closest to being perfect is the first seasons of Skins.

[@briannabanana996]

Pepe Baiter I strongly agree.

[@XMissPreciousJayX]

More like the inbetweeners

[@Halloween14_]

Pepe Baiter hell yeah skins

[@callies8907]

Bruh if you're teenaged experience was like Skins please go to therapy holy moly

[@catboynestormakhno2694]

Callie S ofc it wasn't, but they have natural dialog, and premises. What the series really showed was the transition from the childish mindset to the more serious, and enlighten mindset. And did this in a way that didn't seem forced, or unnatural. *spoilers* And the death of Chris came very close to me, it was around the same time death came close to me, as one of my mates had a heart problem.

[@RatgirlResort]

"You're an actual nerd, aren't you" is the line that made me hate 13 Reasons Why

[@halloweenfriday]

Resort The “FML” lines made me cringe the most.

[@halloweenfriday]

Leandro Aude they’re quotes a couple of characters say on 13 Reasons Why.

[@halloweenfriday]

Leandro Aude “FML forever!”

[@halloweenfriday]

Leandro Aude it’s an acronym for “fuck my life”.

[@ploopy2782]

Connor Morley yeah the fml forever line killed it

[@antonia5423]

i’ve probably seen this video 10 times, shown it to multiple friends, and constantly refer back to it when talking about the uncanny valley. i’ve been watching ur vids for a while and i hope that you continue being awesome and making incredible content like this! you are so well spoken and everything you discuss is digestible:) thank you for making my favorite yt vid of all time!!!

[@marcuscesar7489]

Maybe the uncanny valley is the reason we hate Comic Sans too

[@MrStronglime]

You made me rethink my life.

[@MCAndyT]

+

[@PrettyDamnDandy]

As a dude interested in graphic design I’ve been looking all my life for a reason why I tell people comic sans is the devil or explain why I laugh when I see it in a professional graphic but you just hit the nail on the head in a one sentence comment God bless

[@KnuckleHunkybuck]

I love Comic Sans. I wish this comment were in Comsa (that's what we Comic Sans enthusiasts call it). It's my all-time favorite font, and all of your opinions are invalid.

[@boop37]

Speak for yourself, id write all my school essays in comic sans if I had the choice

[@joeyclemenza7339]

The Edge of Seventeen was a great flick. Perfect realism in cinema can never be attained, simply by the principal that the protagonist will always be removed from your current perspective of life. Unless you write a character entirely based on you and the people you know, you’ll never be able to relate with a single character. Instead, when watching a film.... don’t look for the authenticity and just follow the characters development as it journeys through their arch made over three general acts. It’s what we do when we watch all movies. Then come to your conclusion that way..... Moreover, you’ll also begin to relate with these movies the older you get. High school and being a teenager is but a tiny blip on the map to your entire adult life.

[@megantaylor3946]

I didn't watch the film 'Edge of Seventeen' because of these reasons. For one thing having a teen that feels 'at odds' with 'their generation' does not make them relatable to teens/young adults today, it makes them relatable to adults who want to also feel superior. Honestly this trope gets my back up immediately and I loathe characters like this. Who are you to say that your ideas and opinions make you so vastly superior to everyone else your age? This is what leads me to believe that the character isn't meant to be relatable to 17 year olds, it's meant to be relatable to the adult viewers who also feel different than the 'teens of today'. Also have to add that as a 21 year old I either hate or just straight up haven't watched any teen dramas that were made in the last 8ish years, but my favourite teen dramas are from the 80s and 90s like 'The Breakfast Club', 'Pretty in Pink', '16 Candles', 'Clueless' and '10 Things I Hate About You'. This makes a lot of sense when you consider your point of not being distracted with the inaccuracies because you were not a teen during that time period.

[@THEPELADOMASTER]

megan taylor feeling at odds with your generation doesn't mean that you feel superior. I've felt at odds with my generation since I was 12, and I'm 23. I don't feel superior, but generally speaking I have such different opinions about... most of the things that I feel displaced, like I don't belong with my generation. Now, feeling this way means that when you see things other people your age does, you're thinking "why the fuck does anyone does that? I don't get how that's fun, or enjoyable, or how does that make sense" and you know that they think the same when they look at you. On the surface it looks like feeling superior, but digging deeper, it's actually a lack of empathy. Not being able to relate to people.

[@summerstargrrrl]

Woah woah woah. Speaking as a 17 year old girl, The Edge Of Seventeen is an amazing teen movie. It’s extremely relatable and I could see any of the things that happen in the movie happening in my life. It’s insane how realistic this movie is, it feels like an actual teen had a part in making it (in a good way). The way they talk feels like conversations I would pick up at my school.

[@Retrostar619]

The thing I remember most about being a teen was the sense of inertia, the lack of plans for the day and a general sense of lethargy that seemed to take hold in a social group. Dazed and Confused had a bit of it, but for my money, the show that captured this feeling best was Freaks and Geeks.

[@JoeDope]

I was going to say... Dazed and Confused and Freaks and Geeks, weren't they both made by people who were teens in the time periods the projects are set? Heavily referencing the creators' own teenage years? So that is probably why they have a more natural feeling to them. People writing slightly more interesting versions of their real lives, or the lives of people they knew personally.

[@SammPear]

Freaks and Geeks is the closest piece of film I've seen that was able to be relatable to teenage life and be funny at the same time. It's so incredible, I've watched the whole series about three times now

[@katiegould6609]

Great video. This is why I’ll always enjoy mean girls. It was just outrageous enough in some places (jungle motif/hit buy a bus/etc) that the genuine parts of high school (passive aggressive friends/worried about what ppl thought of you/lying to your parents) felt all the more real.

[@vicarter7831]

This genuinely helped me on a comparison assignment between the movie '10 Things I Hate About You' and teen life nowadays. Side note: Heathers is an outstanding movie, I've loved it since I was little.

[@Emelineeeeeee]

I was home schooled for all of my school years up until high school, which I did for two years (though I didn't really socialize in high school). I think that's the reason why I can enjoy movies like the breakfast club and ferris bueler's day off, because I never had the quintessential high school experience

[@seagull653]

FINALLY a mini documentary style video that mentions Heathers! Sorry for my excitement, but i’ve been looking for someone else to vocalize this exact thing! Haha nice video.

[@MCAndyT]

+

[@Kingdomheatsox2]

I remember when I first watched Heathers with my mum she described it as “more eighties than the actual eighties.”

[@DutchDread]

This is why I love fantasy, ironically it's among the only type of movie that I can take seriously.

[@AmbiguousProxy]

This is probably because we can all suspend our disbelief far easier in fantastical contexts like science fiction and fantasy than in "true-to-life" or "set in the real world" movies. It plays to the parts of our minds that like to play with the notion of the impossible. We accept that the story is not real, and somehow that allows us to immerse ourselves fully in the experience.

[@ninaholguin7951]

So, thanks for putting some words and theory behind this, because I've thought about this idea for a bit now, but on the flip side. Even though I can't believe it, we're pretty much the same age, I live in the North East of England and I get the same feeling as you towards TV as its British, but most of the films I watch are American naturally. Over the Atlantic, I see America as a mythical bizarre place, where anything and everything is possible- a place without electric kettles and the pledge of allegiance at the start of school (patriotic or indoctrination? Honestly its weird). Seriously if you said that you swam past alligators on your trip to school, I would believe you. So I guess all these high school shows are still loved by the British because we don't know your country all too well and we can't relate to America enough for us to spot the peculiarities . And I know it isn't just me, my friends all want to go to America because 1. we have heard you guys all love our accent and 2. some reason they think all american colleges are filled with extremely attractive older looking people like puberty is affected by geography or something. We know Cole Sprouse isn't our age, yet they still think America high schools are like Riverdale. I'm sure there's the other side of it as well, like my school is far off Eton or Hogwarts. But anyway, its a very cool theory going on, and I thought your video was top :)

[@aunaheard5450]

Nina Holguin i

[@janinewongsuwan4404]

woah i thought you were like 23, you’re so mature oh my

[@marencarter665]

the first sentence of this video perfectly expressed a sentiment i'd never been able to fully articulate. 'eighth grade' really does reflect my adolescent experience, and is one of the few movies that truly feels like i could've lived it.

[@carlottathefriendlyperson7710]

You (and several other channels discussing films) have gotten me really interesting in cinematography. I've always been interested in movies (spend my younger years desperately trying to find and convince something to film a movie), but I never really pursued it, or realized that there was this much to it. I'm still unsure of what I want to do with my life, and quite honestly, I might actually chose something related to film now ~ Thanks for making such interesting videos : D

[@Blueroom97777]

Carlotta TheFriendlyPerson can you list other channels about cinematography please? :)

[@imkesalz8059]

Yeah I'd also be very interested in that! Thanks

[@christianpaystrup4427]

This is one of the reasons I loved Spider-Man: Homecoming. As a teen, I felt like it was one of the few times I actually felt like someone walked into my high school and just took notes on how my peers talk and act. Might be different for some people, but I definitely do love your perspective.

[@hind__]

A 17 year old would never say "ughhhh my generation only care about their phones". I know some are pretty pretentious, but for the most part it'd never work. It's unreal. I think critics liked it because it was was pandering to them.

[@hind__]

Jaylin Broan You're gonna grow out of it, I promise. I sure did Within the same year too. I got so embarrased when I thought about the things I thought about before.

[@ItsJenniBear]

nah, teens say that a surprisingly large amount honestly

[@dogwater4126]

Real teenage culture is getting too involved in something to point were you’re obsessed or slapping someone else because they need to mind their own damn business

[@ThisIsMattyTrying]

So you make a statement of "never" then tell another commenter they'll "grow out f it". How can it be never if someone's growing out of it?

[@devon9313]

I actually think it made a lot of sense, it was pretty pretentious of a comment and that was what (or at least what I saw) it was represented as. The main character had a since of hierarchy, like her suffering or feeling different meant she was smarter, when it really just made her a bit narrow-minded. That feels very realistic.

[@janaem7836]

An excellent example of this would be the film Whiplash. I myself adore that movie as much as the critics did but if you ask any actual college or professional level band member, the answer will almost always be "it sucks". If you do your research you realize that there are a lot of outdated or just plain nonsensical terms used by its characters that make watching it awkward and uncomfortable for actual band members. But for someone who has no knowledge of musical vocabulary, you can completely skip over what parts don't make sense because you are just unaware of whats right or wrong.

[@Jormbis]

I dunno, man. Generation aside, I saw the Edge of Seventeen at the age of 20 and felt that the dialogue felt pretty realistic to me and kind of related it back to when I was a teen in a school in California. That's probably just me though.

[@Dielawn69]

"That's probably just me though." You definitely aren't alone. This guy just needs to realize that his experiences aren't the be all end all. It's like if I watched the movie Juice and said "This isn't realistic, I never had a friend who killed someone. Then became blood hungry and started assassinating my friends because we were the only witnesses."

[@wackywally69420]

pelleman02wb I think movie characters in general aren't like real people. Dialogue in movies is scripted, etc, but I do believe it's teen characters especially that end up been the most stereotypical and unrealistic.

[@jakelau9588]

Honestly one of the clearest thinkers on KZbin. We need more people like this.

[@garyperea4052]

I always wondered why I found movies depicting teenage life almost always feeling off...Good vid as always man👍

[@TaylorJWilliams]

Thanks for the support Gary

[@ayden_james]

I think the most realistic depictions of teenage life I’ve seen so far are Greta Gerwig’s Lady Bird and a Norwegian series called Skam. This is going to be really unclear (since I’m very bad at explaining) but I think contradiction and self-awareness play a big role in making something feel realistic. Teenagers have whimsical personalities and can usually change with the way their peers or the things they watch, read, or listen to affect them I feel like the reason some films don’t feel authentic is because they have established this weird, stationary view of what teenagers are. If they do try something else leaning a bit more on the former, it comes out as forced. It feels as if they try to gather as many data from quantitative surveys of what ‘quirks’ teenagers have but never actually look deeper into it.

[@kristofferiancelera5448]

You may be just on the edge of being an adult, but you're sharper than most I encounter in college. Keep up the good work, man!

[@-Araina-]

Honestly I think Lady Bird might be the most genuine depiction of high school/teenhood that I've seen.

[@willneisen2245]

if you watched a film that was 100% realistic you would be bored out of your mind......

[@TaylorJWilliams]

Will Neisen Manchester by the Sea is about as close as it gets, and that was phenomenal, but what I’m really supporting in this video is the paradoxical practice of reducing realism to increase immersion

[@chio7660]

Boyhood?

[@squall6789]

There are plenty of great films like Manchester by the Sea out there, being released every year. Check out stuff by directors like Hirokazu Koreeda, Kelley Reichart, the Dardenne Brothers, Jacques Audiard, Derek Cianfrance, The Duplass Brothers, Joe Swanberg , Lars von Trier, Lukas Moodysson, Mike Leigh, Susanne Bier, Larry Clarke and Sophia Copella or go back and check out Cassavetes and Altman or Truffaut and Bergman. I mentioned a few international directors, I think those linguistic and cultural barriers help you get through the uncanney valley because you just don't know exactly how it should be.

[@Renkovic_]

Taylor J. Williams Squall says that under but i will repeat it and expand it a little bit. squall6789 i was passing by this video, and came to say that. In the video we only hear about US cinema. I mean there is a whole world out there. Squall mention many, and i can add a lot more on that list. You need to look out for movies out of the US. Belive me, you would be amazed of how close and real can you relate to a boy from Ireland or and old woman from Japan, for example. The thing is cinema does not intend to portrait the reality like a first mandment. Editing is the perfect example of prove that point. It serves the story. You only could expect that the dialogs, and the whole setup feels real. That the words you hear, the sound, the scenes, etc make you feel that those 2D images, 24 frames per sec. Are "real", and you get in the story. And the film gets to you. Because the cinema (execpt some Docs) are build from non-reality bricks (script, actors, lighting, stage, direction, editing, grading, vfx, etc). And its the idea or the feeling that intends to transmit, what is the most important. I can extend on those points for very long if you want, but this is no place for those long discussions :)

[@achoquenao3719]

Will Neisen The film he says he enjoys a lot is Heathers who's not realistic at all

[@idk9992]

To hear someone your age articulate his thoughts so well and in a concise manner is rare. Subscribed.

[@jaredjenkins99]

Honestly, after watching this video I almost feel like realism within a film's world isn't important at all. The audience thinks it's important but it's not. What is important is the realism of the EMOTIONS. If the emotion of the film is realistic, honest or relatable, then the audience will be able to connect with the characters and have the emotion the film is intending to create. In my mind, that's the only reason the in-world realism is important at all. So that when it's time to feel those emotions, the audience is already there. They're already seeing a world they think is realistic, so adding true emotions onto that is a piece of cake. That's why for me, something like the realism of Hailee Steinfeld's line about teens being addicted to cell phones, doesn't bother me. You may not think a teen would say that but it doesn't matter what you think because that's just how this character is. Or take something more important: realism in war stories. The guy "violating safety regulations for a pair of easy replaceable gloves" may be unrealistic, but I think if it serves the story and gets the audience to a place where they can feel a very real, very visceral feeling of war, it should be okay. (That's a bit of a slippery slope because conveying the details of death on such a scale is very important, but still the emotion should trump all.) It may sound detrimental to film to just say "It doesn't matter" because everything matters in storytelling. But I think it's even more detrimental to put so much weight on these details that when they're just slightly off, you disconnect from the whole work all together. Because then the film's realistic details may start to take precedence over realistic emotions. That's why it always bothers me when people write off a whole film (Rogue One for example) because of the Uncanny Valley effect. I know you can't help what you feel, but in the end, there are some things in film more important than the overall realism.

[@alex_roivas333]

i agree ... not only that, but movies aren't "realistic" period. no one complains that there are cuts, for example. "omg, this movie cut between scenes, where entire hours and even days passed. I don't pass out in real life and lose large amounts of time, SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO unrealistic!!!"

[@jaredjenkins99]

Yeah that's true. It's all pretty unrealistic. I think we accept things like time skips because we're so used to them in our dreams. They happen a lot in both. Movies are basically just dreams our minds made while we were awake.

[@timothygray7798]

If someone really cares about "realism" that much, they should just sit down and watch closed circuit television for two and a half hours.

[@tatehildyard5332]

Exactly. That's why I think Lady Bird works as well as it does. Greta Gerwig talked about how she "wanted to honor the movie Lady Bird thinks she's in without actually making that movie". Lady Bird lives her life and acts as though she's a movie character because she's young and that's what young people do. They emulate what pop culture says a cool person is but she's not in the movie that she thinks she's in or wants to be in. The movie is aware it's not a perfect reality so it instead focuses on emotion. We all may not have been or known a Lady Bird and we may have actually treated our parents with respect but we've all had that feeling that "Life with a capital L is happening somewhere else away from us" and the only way we'll be happy is if we leave home behind and find it.

[@Breakhammer82]

You’re absolutely right. I think this video is missing the point.

[@tb1391]

The thing about teen movies is that the dialogue is supposed to be an idealized version of reality, the way an Aaron Sorkin movie has unrealistically witty characters and a Tarantino movie has unrealistic banter between characters.

[@AzureRaven]

I think that teen movies from the 80s feel a lot like that... like they are about the perception of adults of teenagehood. I think we like teen flicks as teens when they are silly, because they don't attempt to be that "realistic" (American Pie, Clueless, Mean Girls, Superbad, and others). I also think that "deep" teen films can be seen as too pretentious even if they are more realistic, like The Perks of being a Wallflower. I'm in my 20s, but I still see many films like this when I want to connect with the youth :D. By the way, you look so mature and smart to be 17!

[@katelynbrown98]

I'm almost 25 & I've felt this ALL THROUGHOUT MY LIFE. I've always felt like the "reality" displayed on tv/movies contributed to the confidence my peers felt. And why I didn't feel that confidence. Not that long into my teenage years, I realized that most things in their movies weren't realistic. But that wasn't necessarily always was what was holding me back from life, but instead that confidence displayed in the media by my peers.

[@ceciliacrasto4602]

I've never agreed with any channel this much! (Binge watching your videos)

[@strylyf2382]

I agree and double agree! (making for a triple agree?) :j

[@minexplosion2857]

oi me too

[@emmafisher8827]

Cecily Crasto I've seen you on a completely unrelated video before lmaoo

[@lexmori9356]

Thank you for this essay. This is something I always thought I was alone in. I always figured maybe others understood things about these films (that I still loved, mind you) that I just didn't get and made me uncomfortable to watch. Now it makes sense.

[@Asummersdaydreamer14]

So what films would feel accurate to a 17 year old in the U.S.? Personally, I can swallow some unrealistic dialogue or have a baker's dozen of existential crisis's as long as I feel like there is a kernel of authenticity behind a character's motivations and emotions. Even if I can spot the artificial, reality can be a drag when it comes to forming and moving forward the narrative. Btw, you should check out The Royal Ocean Film Society's video about American Graffiti; I think you could get chummy with him about your views on capturing teen life in film. Also, yeah, Andrew's channel name is long and feels vaguely pretentious, but I like his POV & taste in films.

[@daniellarossetto]

YESSSSS! FREAKS AND GEEKS i was going to answer the same thing!!

[@dalegaliniak607]

But isn't that the same reason why he said he like Heathers? By setting the movie in a previous decade, he no longer understood the tiny mannerisms, and was able to distance himself and stop being caught up by the details. It seems like Freaks and Geeks, which came out in the 90s, but took place in the early 80s, would accomplish the same thing.

[@DeathnoteBB]

Dale Galiniak It's really just the whole "distant enough from real world context to spot inaccuracies" then isn't it?

[@fire45671]

Honestly I thought Lady Bird did a pretty good job

[@tatehildyard5332]

Speaking of Royal Ocean and Lady Bird, I think another aspect I think worth examining in these teen films is their level of self awareness. In a radio interview, Greta Gerwig talked about "honoring the movie Lady Bird thinks she's in but without making that movie". Young people shape their lives and attitudes around pop culture but the level of awareness we have with that produces all kinds of different results. That's the reason why I think Juno, Lady Bird, Sing Street, and Submarine work as great examples. They all act in unrealistic ways because they're either aware what kind of movie they're in or they're trying to live in one movie while stuck in another movie. That's where Royal Ocean comes in. The over the top existential crisis elements of teen films can work but they don't in the movies he sited because they play it so straight. Because of this, the emotion of the film rings as false which is most important when making a coming of age film. If the feeling and emotion rings true, accurate realism is irrelevant.

[@Tahukan]

Christ. The production quality of this is astounding. Well put and a thought-provoking subject, I'm shocked I haven't seen any of your videos before.

[@willneisen2245]

I wouldn't say the filmmakers are "blind" to how teens act (some very well might be), They are trying to make a fictional movie, not a documentary. I feel like you're missing a fundamental part of the film making process and that's the directors intention. Some do go for a painfully realistic depiction of life, that's their goal, but others don't, their intentions are to heighten reality for the purpose of dramatic weight. I don't know if its fair to criticize a film for lacking something the director was never trying to capture. But hey, film is subjective and you're younger than me and more successful so who knows.

[@TaylorJWilliams]

Will Neisen those are the filmmakers/intentions I prefer, a heightened reality. It’s not the lack of realism that bothers me; it’s when the film is marketed as realistic and then isn’t, but I think as far as films intentionally portraying an unrealistic, perhaps romanticized/heightened situation, we’re on the same page

[@lauren.xo01]

I think 13 (2003) isa good example of a realistic teen movie because one of the actresses in the movie Nikki Reed wrote the movie along side the director, based on her life from ages 12 to 13 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteen_(2003_film)

[@wilthomas]

Right, no (or very few, at least) teen movies actually try to emulate how teenagers of a given place and time actually speak. In fact, very few movies of any genre in general try to emulate real life speech and for good reason - it's boring, unfunny, and unwitty. I was teenager when movies like Can't Hardly Wait, She's All That, and American Pie came out. No one, and I mean no one, thought that these movies even intended to flawlessly emulate the actual speech patterns of teenagers in the mid to late-90s.

[@duketravers9706]

Will Neisen I’d argue many teenage or child protagonists written for an older audiences take on a retrospective voice.

[@flyingtomato747]

this is one of the very rare videos i find in youtube that actually teaches me something that i had never seen before. thank you for broadening my horizons.

[@TheDakotaArt]

Thank you! I knew I couldn't be the only one that grew up and thought, "Oh well this isn't what I expected."

[@novindichar]

I'm addicted to this genere of video. These in-depth breakdowns are super fascinating. I keep finding more and more channels with this stuff, and I love it. Subscribed.

[@phoebeschwerin3759]

I, as a fellow teenager, disagree with you on your opinion of Edge of Seventeen.

[@ItsJenniBear]

agreed

[@dogwater4126]

As a fellow teenager, I agree with him.

[@ThisIsMattyTrying]

Agreed, my favourite movie as I felt like I resonated with the characters on a paramount level.

[@MTsteelMT]

Not every teenager is the same

[@phoebeschwerin3759]

M Brewerman Yes, but he said it in an absolute way. That no teenagers acted like that. However, as you can see, at least a few do.

[@GiannaGranata]

THIS. I’ve always thought this about modern teen films. I could never pinpoint what it was about them that I hated. I always got annoyed with characters’ outfits, hair, and makeup looking like it was perfectly curated by a team of stylists. This is not accurate with regular teens. We have lazy days. Our hair is messy. We wear the same 5 favorite outfits we have. We don’t always look perfect. Another thing is the so-called “witty” dialogue that I can’t STAND. We don’t always have awesome comebacks to every statement. Most of the time we have normal conversations with people and aren’t trying to be funny or clever, which is depicted in so many modern teen shows and movies and it makes me cringe. Great job on this video and thank you for expressing what all of us are thinking!

[@CambieAngel]

Someone finally put how i feel about these movies into words! Thank you!

[@faithmedlock8671]

For someone who is 17 you are extremely intelligent. You are really good at explaining things. Even though you're older now, it's still crazy that someone as old as me is able to make me understand things I've never thought of before

[@Sara_Skully]

You're only a year older than I am and to be honest you're probably smarter than I'll ever be.

[@Sara_Skully]

Also heck yeah, I love Heather's.

[@theawesomeduo54]

Read something you like. Learn new words. Use this advanced wording in everyday life. Make observations and opinions nd bingo you're suddenly smarter... Or rather sound smarter.

[@jakobvanklinken]

You'll just sound smarter BUT IF YOU JUST find people with whom you bounce off the stuff you found in books or made up, that might just do the trick. Oh wait.. "advanced wording" hhm so this increases the eventuality of elevating your trail of thought

[@JAMEYX]

I'm the same age as him and he is at least 5x smarter than me.

[@fruitsalad1181]

That is just straight up a lie, if you keep telling yourself that you will be as dumb as you are now.

[@valentinopetrozzi9989]

One of the best film commentaries I've seen in a hot minute, keep it up.

[@TheAIMEEASH]

Heathers is one of my favourite films of all time! Also, I loved this video so much. Great job man!

[@iupooiresa]

YES! I have had a number of problems with my own inability to suspend disbelief enough to actually enjoy things. Thank you for articulating it so well.

[@Luckywynne]

This explains why I prefer the original anime shows as opposed to their live-action counterparts (i.e. Attack on Titan is more believable when animated as a cartoon).

[@Hakajin]

Funny you should mention that, because I had the same experience with Nodame Cantabile. It's a pretty realistic story, but Nodame herself is so extra... She works really well as an anime character, but as a real person, I couldn't take her seriously. Although, a lot of people really loved the drama...

[@danicatempleton6745]

I find similar with a lot of things that require sfx. Like in live-action we're often jumping between real and sfx and if the sfx are bad, it takes us out. In anime/cartoons for the same situations, we're going from unnatural to still just as unnatural, so there's no immersion-breaking contrast.

[@THEPELADOMASTER]

No, that's because they used some shit effects in the attack on titan live action. Who knows how it would look with grade a effects.

[@zacharyhall5211]

I think that more because anime is almost never drawn to be adapted to real movement ? I don't think the uncanny valley is useful in analyzing this especially when anime style sensibilities often use the uncanny.

[@Poptart183]

I agree with your statement. I think there's expectation involved here. In real action, viewer expects realism, whether they consciously think that way or not. In anime, anything can be a fair game, like Nodame's extremely quirky personality

[@AlexReynard]

(lots of applause) Thank you for pinning down this idea. I'm a writer, and I've been seeing far too many movies lately that come really close to being good, but just have too many unrealistic parts that feel icky to me. For me, it's because when I write, I put myself fully into my characters and write as if I am them. I see a hell of a lot of media now where characters do things the writers think is clever, but which that character, living in a world which is real to them and has consequences, would not do. So for me, my uncanny valley is, essentially, when I catch a scriptwriter doing the kind of cutesy bullshit I don't let myself get away with. (I do not like Wes Anderson at all.) Also, on the Hurt Locker, I remember feeling that it was 'off' somehow. Jeremy Renner, I could believe as someone who's been through trauma. Dunno if he actually has in his life, or if he's just really good. But the directing felt like... 'Look how hard I'm trying to be gritty and realistic.' It had that same kinda feel of the creator ultimately caring more about showing off, than about empathy for the characters and situation.

[@diurtydantv8061]

Finally someone sees through this shtick.

[@princesslulu5795]

I think you just explained why I overwhelmingly prefer older movies to movies made in the last decade or so (Most of my favorite films came out in the 80’s & early to mid 90’s. I was born in 93 so these films either came out before I was born or mostly when I was too young to see or really appreciate them). This is kind of amazing someone younger than me was able to teach me something so significant not just about film but about myself and a significant part of my life. Wow that is deep

[@invaderlib1]

Saw veronica and i had to watch Ended up relating so much to this video

[@Ideacatcher]

Great break down! Who needs college when you could just watch this guy. I learned more from this video than I ever did from the credits I paid thousands of dollars for....

[@solastacey127]

6:10 “I don’t know what it’s like to kill somebody” sounds like something a murder would say 🧐

[@callmealx]

This was *so* fucking good. When you said you were 17 I was shocked - I'm an 18 year old media student myself and this is more concise than anything I've ever made. Never stop creating.

[@kir-is-here]

Hi! I came across this video after watching a half-dozen other film reviews. I've never heard of the uncanny valley before, and I love how you explained it! The uncanny valley explains why I don't like watching most movies that have dancing in them. I've been dancing for over 15 years, so I can see when the actor or actress is mimicking their stunt double or when they have bad technique. Besides the actual dancing, other details bother me as well. For example, in "The Greatest Showman" PT Barnum buys a pair of pointe shoes for his daughter. The gesture is sweet and it shows that Barnum wants to give his children the opportunities that he never had. That being said, the pointe shoes look like modern ones, not like ones from the 1800s, and dancers cannot buy pointe shoes without having them fit to their feet. That scene pulled me out from the movie, and it took me a little while to re-immerse myself into the film. Sorry for the rant, I'm just fascinated by this topic! Thanks for taking the time and effort to make this video!

[@cedricwublin9306]

I feel exactly the same about animated musicians. As a musician myself, I watch where the character's fingers are going on the guitars, or watch what drums the drummer is hitting. And my god, but do animators just make it up as they go along. Musicians just put their fingers here, and music comes out, right? The only exception I can think of is 'Freak of the Week' by Freak Kitchen, which was glorious, and they actually played the instruments. Also, in music videos when the singer doesn't have a microphone but we can hear them perfectly over the sound of the drums and amplifiers. Yeah, that's pretty unrealistic.

[@kir-is-here]

Oh that's so interesting! I sometimes notice when animated musicians seem "off", but I don't notice it nearly as often as you probably do. And music videos often have the unrealistic singing as well as the unrealistic dancing-- so the worst of both worlds haha

[@cedricwublin9306]

I can ignore it, because I love music (and music videos) but it does bother me when I think about it. And yeah, my siblings do a lot of dance, so I will notice how the people in music videos (or even in some films with dance) aren't really dancing, it's just the fast editing making you think they're doing something impressive.

[@angiieantoinette]

I'm the same with any film or television series that features a character playing tennis. From the outfits that are always all white (literally the only tournament professional tennis players wear all white to is Wimbledon and it's lead up tournaments) and yet almost every tennis scene I've watched, characters wear all white (sans Bridesmaids which was the only tennis scene I found semi-believable as the scene wasn't making them out to be good players). Also the way characters hold their racquets or grunt when they hit a ball with no power whatsoever, so inaccurate, but it flies right over the heads of anyone who didn't play in the competitive sphere of tennis (puns intended).

[@psmayaps]

I LOVE FINDING OTHER TEENS ANALYZING FILMS AND SHARING OUR POV!! THANKS MAN THANKS FOR THIS

[@houston-coley]

Nice video, man! Can't believe I just found your channel.

[@TaylorJWilliams]

HoustonProductions1 i just saw this comment (KZbin is pretty inconsistent with notifying me about comments), but I’ve been a fan of your content for a while! I just referenced your IT video in the video I posted last night, unaware you’d even seen my content

[@houston-coley]

Taylor J. Williams oh awesome, man! I’d love to collaborate sometime.

[@TaylorJWilliams]

HoustonProductions1 I’m 100% down, you can contact me through twitter dm’s if you ever have any ideas (I’m a bit inexperienced with this sort of thing)

[@jmorales09]

A collaboration between you two would be heaven incarnate.

[@psychsephone9832]

The genius of Heathers is that it was never trying to be relatable to anyone, even teens in the 80s. The writers obviously went for satiric caricatures of cliques you’d see in a John Hughes movie (and all of those films seemed to be trying very hard and failing at relatability), but they also knew actual 80s teen slang would either be inaccurate or age badly, so they made up their own slang, for their own surreal universe-which ended up being super iconic and timeless. Heathers great for a ton of other reasons, but I agree that its complete defiance of any attempt at teenage realism is precisely why it works for teenagers (and adults) of any era

[@Hakajin]

I dunno if I agree with your thesis that the uncanny valley lies in the dialogue. Because... Well, I'm 29 now, but even I can tell that dialogue is stilted. But it seems to me that that's only part of the problem. To me the real problem is that the high school experience in movies is entirely manufactured. You have the in-group, and the outsiders who no one understands. It's all this big coming of age story where the characters have to figure out who they are and what they want, how to be themselves... And there's frequently an important central friend group that the main character relies on. None of that had anything to do with my experience of high school. It certainly wasn't central to my life. I mean, I went there, and I had classes, and there were aspects I enjoyed, and aspects that I didn't. I was still very awkward and didn't really fit anywhere, but it wasn't like people didn't like me or were mean; they were just more acquaintances than friends. If this caused me angst, it wasn't much. I did have people I hung around, but... honestly, I didn't enjoy their company all that much, and I didn't want to hang out with them outside of school. So rather than being this big, important coming -of-age thing for me, high school was something I just kind of passed through. It was in college that I really started making friends and learning how not to be so awkward. But none of that would make for a good movie. So, I can enjoy the hell out of a movie like Mean Girls, but it definitely doesn't feel real to me. And you know... While I think that kind of movie is fine, I think it's bad that high school movies tend to be so uniform that way. It makes me feel like I really missed out on something, despite the fact that I think the whole thing is a construction that very few people actually feel like they lived through.

[@PerriwinklePadfoot]

I JUST SPENT 30 MINUTES LOOKING FOR THIS VIDEO. I remembered watching it like months and months ago and wanted to find it again to prove a point to a friend. that's how good it is. Also, make your stuff more searchable dude.

[@DaviHughes]

But the thing is, I believe when you're telling a story, you can take "concessions" to suit the storytelling. Movies aren't supposed to be 100% a reflection of reality, but nowadays (and the reason I believe movies such as Lady Bird and Boyhood get tons of attention) the audience craves for their entertainment to look as a fraction of the real world. Heathers, for example, was never supposed to be a portrait of 80s teen life but rather a mockery of it. Heather Chandler's iconic 'fuck me gently with a chainsaw' slang is a neologism. What I think movies do is actually play with our wildest dreams: who never thought of taking the day off by creating a master plan just like Ferris Bueller? And who wouldn't want to end stereotypes, even if it's just for a little while, like the way we see it in "The Breakfast Club" (except Jason Dean, lol)? These films weren't supposed to be a true portrait of reality, they were supposed to be an escape from it. At least they were for me. But I get that nowadays, the audience is way more into "reality" shows... they think they're seeing "reality" on television, and they demand to see reality in other forms of entertainment. That's why I think people went nuts for Boyhood or Lady Bird. I'm not saying you're wrong for calling out teenage movies, and there's nothing wrong with feeling passé about them, but movies are not mirrors. And that's the beauty about them.

[@Amy3422]

That's his point though. The movies that try to be exact mirrors are usually the ones that feel unsatisfying. Heathers doesn't pretend to be an exact mirror. Thus, it looks and sounds genuine.

[@nnamdibond3139]

I just want to say, Thank you, Taylor. You're a pedantic genius

[@mattsaracen7]

I think edge of 17 is great and pretty realistic. There are teenagers who babble off pseudo intellectual bullshit daily because they are insecure about X and acting superior to their peers is a consolation prize for not fitting in or whatever. I think this is what they are doing in the film. You have to consider the fact that teens grow up watching teen films with unrealistic dialogue and pick up on it. Hell, when I was 12 my friends and I used all the slang from Heathers.

[@mildredhubble5324]

You are such an insightful and wise young person! Thanks for sharing your gifts. Looking forward to more essays

[@leotuber]

It seems you're implying that the more ignorant you are about the world, the more likely you are to enjoy a film. Also, it seems that the critics liked "The Age of Seventeen" for the same reasons you enjoy "Heathers." I'm not saying you're wrong, just pointing out what you're implying here. Keep it up!

[@wackywally69420]

That's true. My mom doesn't give one shit about literature or anything like that (not saying she's dumb, she just doesn't enjoy thinking like that) and she loves like every shitty popular movie that comes out like minions. She also hates it when I rant about why the movies are so bad lol

[@Darfaultner]

@@wackywally69420 Ignorance is bliss

[@julianxamo7835]

Thats literally the point he makes in the video

[@lashay7684]

@@wackywally69420 But its entertainment. A quick escape from reality. it doesn't need to be completely real because tbh it will never be since not all teenagers are the same, they're too many varieties. in films people stick to stereotypes, especially in comedy. Everything is dramatised, that's how theatre was like when it first started. I don't understand the big deal. and this is coming from a person that's really interested in films.

[@KyleHarmieson]

I feel like you didn't finish watching this video...

[@robrick9361]

I know a veteran of the Vietnam war who loves Full Metal Jacket. The reason being that he's not a fucking idiot. Movies aren't simulations. Movies are about meaning. These criticisms are stupid. If Full Metal Jacket was super accurate to the point that only veterans loved it then no one else would be able to understand it, because most people weren't in the war. Too much accuracy losses the very people the piece of art tries to reach.

[@travis_redfern6771]

Don’t know how many times I’ve heard someone describe the uncanny valley, but I know it’s been too many times

[@sabre8211]

This is so well put, I'm astonished. I've always felt weird about films about teenagers that are supposed to be around my age, but never knew why. Now I know. Thanks!

[@shorts-cr2zu]

Interesting.. and maybe why some foreign films feel so realistic. Also, your marbles are flat!

[@TheCarrots101]

This is why concept films such as The Truman Show and Her are so effective. They put relatable characters in unrelatable situations.

[@kulatoid]

what about Eighth Grade? that was extremely realistic that it felt like spying on someone and it gave me the same awkwardness someone would feel at that age

[@eprimeprice]

What a sophisticated, yet highly accessible exploration of an idea that I think film criticism will really benefit from. I definitely will be using this as a lens through which to see my reactions to movies from now on. Thanks for making this!

[@MTsteelMT]

What do you think of the British teen comedy _The Inbetweeners_ ?

[@jos6557]

It's super interesting how such small details can completely shatter the suspension of disbelief! Very intriguing essay!

[@myotherusernameisurmom]

*me @ any movie, after watching this video:* _it’s a full on monet._

[@TheDude4077]

I think something that attributes to the uncanny valley feeling in a lot of these movies is the fact that so many of them feature actors much older than their characters. Like in the example of Edge of Seventeen, the main love interest in the movie was played by an actor in his 30's! And he looked like it too. It's one of the main reasons I struggle to watch so many teen films is because nothing shatters my immersion more than seeing someone who is clearly 25-26 years old playing a 16 year old.

[@lolaangel7359]

Heathers is a cool as fuck movie, man.

[@kitchensinkchronicles3272]

i love heathers as well! and as a sixteen year old i agree with you about unnatural dialogue. the key to these teen movies, in my opinion, is to make the characters feel timeless yet grounded in reality. humans are humans after all and will remain to be despite what year it is. i’d say the best way to write these is talk to teenagers, ask them about their life, their opinions, that’s the best research an adult writer could do to write a movie about us. also to use as little “internet slang” or anything resembling a meme as possible. that just comes off as cringey and is too dating

[@iconicroses8515]

you are so incredibly intelligent and I love Heathers so much too

[@greyleaf]

Great content my dude. I've been a musician my entire life, but recently had a change of heart and started to aspire towards making films (at the age of 24 with no experience, lol..). But that said, content like this is pure gold to me at this stage. All I can say is keep up the work my dude. This channel's gonna pay itself off big time one day! Also, really digging the jazz-hop you've got going on in the background :D

[@brynnhill8848]

Aka, why (in Jumanji) Jack Black yelling YAS QUEEN made me laugh, but teaching Amy Pond how to be a flirt made me cringe

[@TheRealArtDoctor]

I didn't know 17 year old could be this smart and good at putting together a video essay that caught something in media I had never thought of before

[@daiselol]

For what it's worth, the character in Edge of Seventeen isn't exactly supposed to be someone that's normal for her generation and she's frequently ridiculed for the insane shit she says In fact, right after calling her generation a bunch of mouthbreathers, Woody Harrelson asks her if she had considered the fact that 'maybe nobody likes you' That's the sort of thing that works best in hindsight, I'm six years out of high school, and the main character's inability to see the characters around her in an empathetic light is something that she grows out of throughout the movie and it's something most people go through regardless of generation I never even really got the impression that the movie was supposed to take place in the modern day, now that I think about it, it's not like they use particularly modern technology. It very much takes place in high-school-land

[@TheKeaneKat]

The closest thing I've ever seen to what high school is like is American Vandal (its on Netflix). It really grasps how teens today actually speak and interact and the things they think are funny, and the embarassing things they do without even realizing how cringey their actions are. Loved every second watching it because it feels SO REAL. like I was watching my own school.