Unsafe Series - Tani Otoshi, the most dangerous and commonly mistaught throw

[@MLi2154]

Great video! The injury examples and stick demonstrations really drive home how badly this throw can go when done wrong

[@adriantsang6042]

such a great video, thank you, agree the existing videos don't explain very well even though it does seem universally agreed that this can be a very dangerous throw

[@benjaminfritzsche8925]

The key to safe Tani-Otoshi is imo that the leg that goes behind uke has to be stretched out an put flat on the floor. Never bent, especially not with the knee up. Thats how I was taught about 30 years ago an how i teach it till today. The key is what I call the "hurdle seat". Meaning tori sits down with his legs in a postition like when jumping a hurdle in athletics. Stretched leg behind uke. This isn't done only for safety, but because it makes the throw effective. Going all the way down creates strong kuzushi. The stretched leg on the floor prevents ukes backstep. When I learned Judo, this was basically common knowledge. And because of this, and because everyone (at least here in Germany) taught it like that, it wasn't even considered a dangerous throw back then. I get the feeling, that BJJ and bad examples on social media have spread the dangerous execution of this throw and the "proper" way as been lost a little. In my judo, this throw is very similar to Uki-Waza (uke thrown forwards) or Yoko-Otoshi (uke thrown sideways). In all three, the "hurdle seat" is key.

[@tatamitalk]

I've never done hurdling before so I can't fully understand what you're trying to explain. but you are correct in that tani otoshi is just same mechanics as uki-waza and yoko otoshi just to the rear. Similarly enough, yoko otoshi done in the wrong tani otoshi way can also cause injuries in the same manner, might be a future video.

[@benjaminfritzsche8925]

@@tatamitalk You do, and explain, this at 5:50 of the Video

[@tatamitalk]

@@benjaminfritzsche8925 sorry what I meant is that I can't understand the feeling of hurdling since I've never done it before. but I guess I understand what you mean by splaying the legs out

[@rickfinsta2951]

I agree 100%. Dropping your weight to the floor in the hurdler's stance is exactly how I think about Tani and Yoko Otoshi, as well as modern Kata Guruma.

[@The-Black-Militant]

This has to be the best breakdown of the tani otoshi, I've seen.

[@submissionsummit]

The only time I do tani-otoshi is from a gut wrench / rear bodylock to eliminate the danger of falling onto a knee. I’d alternatively choose ura-nage if I’m throwing sutemi from a side clinch / perpendicular position.

[@ilVecchioKoala]

Great video about a way too underrated topic. Fortunately, I was taught this technique by a great teacher and I've always done it correctly. Unfortunately, I once met someone who didn't learn this technique the same way, and I had to have ACL surgery.

[@bolieve603]

I'd consider myself a Tani otoshi specialist and the key to mine is to start behind and actually circle step in front and block only the near leg. It should be an upper body throw not a reap

[@tatamitalk]

that is certainly a much safer way to do it, but still run the risk of sitting on the ankle depending on how you do it and also less effective than blocking the far leg which will definitely attract people towards doing the more dangerous version.

[@jezzbaker5111]

Great video

[@DrzewoDrewniane]

I wasn't aware of this risk but i believe i was driving myself far and low enough to avoid that. Still need to watch out though.

[@davielias4404]

Hurt my knee with that one. Thanks god it didn't break, but streched ligaments a little. Still hurts...

[@tatamitalk]

@@davielias4404 glad that you didn't get seriously injured

[@rollinOnCode]

that is super scary. wow

[@QuickSh0t]

I'm not sure what changed, this used to be a super common throw where I trained and I've never seen anyone injured. Hundreds of throws, maybe even thousands and no injuries. It seems something has been lost since then.

[@tatamitalk]

from anecdotal experience / observations, half of the people I've seen do it incorrectly have gone years without ever hurting someone while spamming this throw. and the other half eventually hurt someone. That is just how probability works in a complex system.

[@rolotomase1440]

Great, all the throws we do at my BJJ academy.

[@tatamitalk]

@@rolotomase1440 it's commonly taught in many BJJ academies and videos, it's a big reason behind us doing this series.

[@rolotomase1440]

@@tatamitalk I'm glad I found your channel and I've subscribed. I've been training BJJ for about 5 years and I'm an older guy (50) so safety and avoiding injury is a priority. I literally was taught Tani Otoshi and Ude Gaeshi my first week of class. Ude Gaeshi seemed obviously dangerous in that you could face plant somebody but I very much liked the sacrifice style for somebody of my age and lack of athleticism. When I came home and looked for more information on Tanni Otoshi I was surprised to learn how dangerous it was. I personally avoid it albeit from an extreme rear clinch situation - unsure if it's even called that from that position. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Oss.

[@Howleebra]

tanni otoshi is a 1st day throw at my MMA gym..*safest throw in judo🔥

[@richardgodivala4680]

So.... throw done properly, safe (as safe any throw is) - done improperly, unsafe. That's pretty much true for every throw. Tani otoshi is a very effective, classical throw when done as per correct instruction. What we saw in at least one of the injury clips barely counted as as Tani Otoshi attempt - legs between his opponent's and sat on his ankle. I agree that there's some poor instruction, and poor judo taking place though - but that shouldn't mean that effective techniques, which are safe when done properly, shouldn't be taught, especially if there are instinctive versions that aren't safe which will be done otherwise! All the more reason to teach them correctly.

[@tatamitalk]

I included that clip because it started as a tani otoshi attempt and due to uke's reaction transitioned to something else, it reflects the reality of what happens. The fact that it's not being taught and if taught its taught incorrectly is why I made this video. Just simply banning the technique from your dojo is low effort sticking your head in the sand solution imo

[@MrBluemanworld]

I say ban the move. I've seen many an injury with it.

[@tatamitalk]

I do not agree that we should ban it, I think it should be taught properly. As mentioned in the video, most dojos ban it instead of teaching it properly.

[@kiddbjj]

I’ve been doing the version in this video for years kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWiwo4V5app7b5osi=X2a2gnQJMDuDtPAS Now I am worried I’ve just been lucky not getting or causing injury

[@tatamitalk]

it could be, I've had people argue with me before about them doing it wrong for years and nothing has happened and around half of those people ended up hurting someone eventually afterwards. I noticed the example you linked is no gi, if it's no gi there could possibly be less chance of injury for doing it that way but I'm not sure about the mechanics behind it and don't train much no gi personally. -Anthony

[@tatamitalk]

I also want to add that the point of the video is to show the risk of doing it certain ways so that people can make an informed choice on what kind of risks they are willing to take. As a recreational judoka I refuse to take certain risks. If you want to be competitive then you just have to accept higher risks in training. I'm by no means saying all other people are wrong.

[@kiddbjj]

@@tatamitalk thanks! I’ll need to look at how I’ve been doing it. I need to work out where the main risk factor is. Like is it me folding the knee laterally from the side, or falling and partners lower leg getting trapped somehow and taking full brunt of body weight. I usually just kind of sag and drag them down backwards