NIETZSCHE - Birth of Tragedy - Analysis - 8-10: The Evolution of the Satyr Chorus and Suffering Hero

Listen on Spotify: anchor.fm/untimely-reflection...
Let’s talk about the evolution of the Attic Tragedy: from solo dithyrambic poet, to dithyrambic chorus, to chorus plus the ritualized portrayal of a masked Dionysus, to an entire tragedy performed on stage behind the “magic wall” of the chorus.

[@longwoolcoat2266]

I got drunk and vigorously read Prometheus bound to my roommate. He didn't understand what the fuck I was doing so I handed him my copy of the birth of tragedy. He looked at me confused as I silently walked to my room, disappointed. I truned and said "individuation moment" then secluded myself in my chamber to further ponder my orb.

[@Dino_Medici]

Haha 🕺🕺🕺🕺🕺🕺🕺

[@wadejameskennedy4495]

thank you, ❤️🌠

[@ozlemdenli7763]

thank you

[@joelshapiro3657]

I love what you are doing. Thanks.

[@stevenbattles]

Awesome work here

[@joelshapiro3657]

Two of my favourite books on BofT are Thinker on Stage by Sloterdijk and Crossings by John Sallis.

[@gingerbreadzak]

00:00 🎭 Nietzsche contrasts the Seder, seen as an archetype of man, with the sentimental image of idyllic rustic life, highlighting the projection of modern society's desire for a simpler life. 03:19 🌿 Nietzsche suggests that the Greeks saw the Seder as a symbol of the sexual omnipotence of nature, and they sacralized their strong emotional states, including sexuality, as a way of dealing with them without imposing shame. 06:36 🎭 Nietzsche emphasizes that the Seder was considered a higher state than contemporary humanity by the Greeks, not a regression. 11:07 🌍 Nietzsche compares the "lie of culture" projecting an idyllic image of nature with the "thing in itself," representing the true, Dionysian nature. 15:03 🎭 Nietzsche discusses the evolution of drama from dithyrambic choruses in honor of Dionysus, where the entire community saw themselves as participants in the revelry. 18:54 🎭 Nietzsche explains that the Greek audience was absorbed into the Seder chorus during the early form of drama, challenging modern concepts of passive spectators. 22:37 🎭 The satyr chorus in Greek tragedy is a vision of Dionysian mass of spectators, and the stage represents this vision. The theater's architecture resembles a mountain valley, placing spectators as overseers. 23:47 🧐 The stage in ancient Greek drama is an attempt to turn the Dionysian vision into reality, bridging the gap between the vision and actual performance. 24:44 🖼 For true poets, metaphor is an actual mental image, not just a concept. They see characters vividly in their minds, not as abstract concepts, making their poetry more compelling. 26:09 📜 The aesthetic phenomenon is simple: continuous vivid play and living surrounded by spirits can make one a poet. Dramatists speak from other bodies and souls. 28:02 🎭 The transformation of the self into another character marks the origin of drama. This transformation involves surrendering individuality and entering another character. 28:58 🌌 In the Dionysian chorus, there's a surrender of individuality, and individuals identify with transformed characters. Drama embodies the transformation of the chorus. 30:27 📚 The artistic experience can be contagious, affecting others. Nietzsche discusses the idea that art can have an epidemic influence on people's moods and states of mind. 32:47 🐐 The Dionysian chorus transforms into Satyrs and sees the god, Dionysus, as they undergo this metamorphosis. Drama is the embodiment of these Dionysian insights. 35:07 🤔 Nietzsche suggests that the experience of encountering Dionysus may be a collective hallucination or shared inclination to experience primordial oneness. 37:09 🎶 Nietzsche hints at a connection between the reveling chorus, Dionysus, and the god Pan, as both represent the totality of nature and the all-encompassing presence. 39:28 🎭 Greek tragedy is understood as the Dionysian chorus discharging itself in an Apollonian world of images. The chorus generates the vision, and the drama is the Dionysian embodiment of insights. 41:53 🎤 The chorus is the central reality, while the characters in the drama represent the vision of the chorus. Greek drama emerges from the chorus's Dionysian experiences, serving as a medium to share its insights and effects. 45:03 📚 Nietzsche explores the idea that sorrow is knowledge, and wisdom is gained through suffering. 46:02 🎭 In the early stages of Greek tragedy, drama was initially chorus-driven and not yet focused on the dramatic hero like Dionysus. 46:29 🧙 The dithyrambic chorus aimed to excite the audience's emotions, making them see the tragic hero as a visionary figure. 48:21 🌌 Tragedy involves an opposition of styles between the Dionysian chorus and the Apollonian dream world, creating a unique dynamic. 49:30 🌓 Apollo's role in tragedy involves creating a precise image that stands apart, whileDionysus shatters individuality and unites with nature. 51:13 🗣 The dialogue in Greek tragedy, exemplified by Sophocles' heroes, appears simple and beautiful, providing an insight into the characters' inner beings. 52:51 💡 Nietzsche argues that the dialogue is a mere appearance projected on a dark wall, symbolizing the surface-level nature of the characters' expressions. 55:49 🩸 Oedipus, despite his tragic actions, represents a noble human being whose suffering spreads a magical blessing beyond his death. 58:04 🌟 Nietzsche interprets Oedipus' actions as breaking the natural order, but his passivity in suffering reflects his nobility. 01:03:36 🤯 Nietzsche sees the myth of Oedipus as conveying that wisdom, particularly Dionysian wisdom, is an unnatural abomination and a crime against nature. 01:07:07 📜 Prometheus, as depicted in Nietzsche's analysis, defies the will of the gods by stealing fire and giving it to mankind, shaping men in his image. 01:09:25 ⚖ Nietzsche discusses the profound demand for justice in the Prometheus myth, highlighting the suffering of the noble individual and the potential Twilight of the Gods. 01:15:24 🎭 Nietzsche connects art, religion, and philosophy, suggesting they share a common origin and the artist embodies the pride of an artist who can defy traditional beliefs. 01:23:41 🤔 Nietzsche compares the Prometheus myth to the story of Adam and Eve, emphasizing that Prometheus's act of sin is seen as a noble virtue, contrasting with the Semitic myth of the fall. 01:27:20 💡 Nietzsche explores the idea of redeeming evil and understanding its value, suggesting that contemplating the nature of things reveals a clash of different worlds and the heroic effort to attain universality. 01:28:16 🎭 Nietzsche explores the concept of sacrilege and suffering in the context of the Dionysian play, where individual representations of the will conflict with one another. 01:31:00 🚺 The distinction between sacrilege and sin in different cultural narratives reveals misogyny and passive sinning associated with women in the Old Testament. 01:35:44 🌐 Nietzsche discusses the importance of accepting and preserving boundaries as sacred in the Apollonian world to maintain individuality and reason. 01:39:23 🌟 Nietzsche suggests that all that exists is both just and unjust, emphasizing the subordination of moral interpretation to aesthetic interpretation. 01:47:10 🌌 Dionysus, the tragic hero, appears in various forms, resembling an individual due to the Apollonian ability to represent symbols, but he represents suffering and individuation in the Dionysian Mysteries. 01:49:28 🤔 Nietzsche draws parallels between the dichotomies of individuation and de-individuation, emphasizing the interplay of contradictory forces. 01:50:39 🌟 Dionysus, not Apollo, represents Nietzsche's philosophical direction due to Dionysus encompassing both sides of the dichotomy. 01:52:56 📖 Nietzsche discusses the role of Dionysus and the rebirth of individuation in Greek culture, leading to a pessimistic view of individuation as the cause of evil. 01:54:05 🎭 Greek tragedy, emerging from the power of music, revitalized the dying myth and reshaped reality, keeping the vitality of religion alive. 02:06:32 🎭 Euripides' removal of Dionysian elements from tragedy led to contrived and inauthentic artistic expressions, marking the decline of tragedy.

[@dragushcobaj4121]

Is there a book on Nietzche which focuses solely on his psychological insights? If so I'd love to read it. Thank you for the episode as always.

[@werdeduselbstwerdeduselbst4883]

You could try "The Forgotten Self" by Carl Jung

[@agopjsagopasasjgo9pahgjs92]

why did you stop putting time stamps , they were very useful

[@VisiblyJacked]

Malevolent nihilism. Or perhaps he's quite busy today.

[@rachelandrews8255]

He's got more important things to do.

[@agopjsagopasasjgo9pahgjs92]

@@VisiblyJacked only first 3 videos from the podcast are with time stamps and then he just stopped doing it :((( it would be really cool if he made that a thing again

[@ntacms90]

Look what Schopenhauer did to my boy. This certainly is a book.

[@drgordo112]

test