Unveiling the Surprising Results of Solar Panel Optimisers

This old solar installation has undergone a recent upgrade, incorporating Solaredge optimizers, new inverters, and battery storage to enhance its functionality. With this upgrade, various aspects have been improved, including self-power consumption rates, the ability to identify module faults, and the integration of the new inverter setup with an existing feed-in tariff.
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00:00 Solar Panel installation upgrade
00:30 The new Solaredge solar and storage set-up
01:30 Adding battery storage & module optimisers
02:30 How does battery storage affect the feed-in tariff?
03:50 Maximising self-consumption
05:13 How are the solar modules performing with optimisers?
06:53 Diagnosing a fault on an old installation
07:28 Repair or replace damaged solar modules
08:45 Solar panel degradation
09:20 Advice for old installations
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#solarmodules #solarpanelinstallation #solaredge

[@metproltd]

Great video as per usual guys! Interesting to see how much difference upgrades can make!

[@Mike_5]

Very interesting area to learn about here

[@solarrover9575]

This is all good stuff and the SE optimisers have their benefits as this video shows BUT we have had a number of optimiser failures with customers over the last 10 years. 25 yr warranty on the optimiser is great but it’s the scaffolding costs which are the problem.

[@chrisyoung7362]

That's true, we too suffer numerous failures with optimisers over the last 10 yesrs 2x battery failure in less than a year, lost count of inverter replacements, solar edge although seem full of wonderful things, it really isn't .

[@Umski]

Have to admit that having had the SE optimisers at my installers suggestion from day 1 (10 years in Dec) I've never looked back, but stopped looking at the stats after the first couple of years (unless I got an alarm which was usually a connectivity to the internet issue) - I had one optimiser failure this year (comms only it seems as it was still generating and ironically the least stressed optimiser) and SE replaced it without drama BUT I then had to go up and change it over which was a pain (luckily no scaff needed). Added a modest battery (4.8kWh) last Nov but AC coupled via a separate battery inverter so no issue with the FiT - import has dropped from 1000kWh/yr to hopefully around 2-300kWh/yr 🤞 My panels still appears to be knocking out close to what they should (mix of thin film and mono) so overall the FiT and install cost have paid for themselves and any extra is paying off the battery plus the savings from import 😎 I'd say unless you already have optimisers it's not worth the change mid-way through their life - it will just be more cost and e-waste ultimately for only marginal gains. This rig makes senses as there was work going on anyway and it is used for training but in a domestic setting, unless there is a failure and it then needs scaffolding to rectify it doesn't make much financial sense...

[@efixx]

great insight - thanks

[@manfredoort]

There are 3 diodes in every panel. The panels with het 66% power have a diode that has failed short. I don't think it would be a problem with a string inverter.

[@johnhatton6211]

I’ve had a Solar Edge system since 2011 and installed optimisers at the outset due to some shading issues. The reliability weak link has been the optimisers, about 5 out of 10 have failed over that time. The most recent failure was in June this year and although the cost of the optimiser was covered by guarantee, Solar Edge have now ceased paying the call out cost of our local distributor, but is was only £48. Luckily we don’t need scaffolding.

[@leexgx]

I love the idea of using a solar edge or emphases system but cost of them individually is very high and if a module fails is a time sink and money if the modules are not installed the roof space (I do like the per panel monitoring) but £50 to 150 per panel additional is a lot ,when I can do 3.6kw system for less then £2-3k before battery’s (ground install)

[@lewismajor756]

I changed my inverter when it died at 11yrs old and the new technologies inside it have boosted my low light outputs by tons. I didn't think you could add batterys and keep the feed in tariff as you have changed the system

[@efixx]

A change in the system and metering needs to be agreed with Ofgem

[@VinoVeritas_]

​@@efixxIt doesn't have to be agreed with Ofgem. It needs to follow the updated Ofgem guidance and then notified to the FIT provider.

[@alexkane07]

If it's an AC coupled battery (completely different installation) then as far as I'm aware you can just install it as long as the DNO requirements are met.

[@VinoVeritas_]

@@alexkane07 This is not a good idea for older FIT systems that have an aging inverter. It's best to replace it with a hybrid inverter in the first instance so that you don't have to get an installer back again when the original inverter fails. Also, as more generation gets added to the grid, it won't become so easy to get that additional AC coupled battery past the DNO.

[@muso31]

Great vid, for the AC in of the inverters are they fed from a CU somewhere with an RCBO/MCB?

[@ladcjd1]

After all this expenditure for this system what are the total costs and savings as to wether this system is worth it. Do you need a fire suppression in the building because of the battery storage. And how does this affect your buildings and contents insurance. I'm sure if you don't declare it any fires that happen will void the insurance. The same as if you have a illegal tints on your car this will void your policy if you get involved in a accident.

[@Ant86744]

Great video. I have one little gripe is that the inverters sit a few mill higher than the battery tops.

[@efixx]

We’ll have a word 😉

[@DSC800]

At 12 years and a hundred panels just the three problem panels is probably not too bad. I've got 16 LG panels after 9 years and two are down by 1/3.

[@timballam3675]

There are new old stock of those panels available bought 3kw worth a few weeks back!

[@bdblazer6400]

How would the Importing to export scheme work out. In germany we get like 8ct per kwh export and 42ct import. You can import to charge your battery but for what? You can get an flexible hourly contract but this only effects the import and goes down to like 20ct per kwh so it only makes sense to charge to use later when rates are higher. but In Winter now its pretty much constant 42ct. And solar is kinda non existing. 2,2kwp give so much energy in the summer. its hard to use it all. and it makes sense to use it anyway insed of selling for 8ct. but in winter i can use the wasching maschine twice a week and the battery is empty.

[@efixx]

We have dynamic tariffs which can at times pay you to take energy from the grid. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioiVXoKkmbKgjbssi=h_EvVsI_-NJpRG1k

[@VillageVidiot100]

Would the compromised panels have actually dragged down the whole string or would the bypass diodes just have dealt with it such that you only lost a third of the output from that module?

[@efixx]

The bypass diodes worked so only 1/3 power lost from the damaged modules.

[@BjornHero]

Exactly this! In the video they are talking "the complete string would be reduced to 70-80%" Which is utter nonsense given the bypass diode "cut out" that defect. This sounds more like marketing than anything else. If you read various research results about the usefulness of panel-optimizers it can be found that panel optimizers normally only have a benefit concerning "soft shade" i.e. trees. See for example the research that has been done in Switzerland at ZHAW ; EFFPVSHADE - Effizienzanalyse von dezentraler Photovoltaik Leistungselektronik bei Teilbeschattung People really started to believe SolarEdge on their marketing-outings when in reality those estimated "benefits" only come in a fraction of the time under very specific circumstances. (If ever). When simulating Solar-Arrays on a component Level-Basis (every diode, every cell simulated) and then playing with broken diodes or cells etc you see that the impact is normally next to zero...

[@BjornHero]

Ow, and the faulty modules could have been identified by "just using a decent multimeter" and measuring the open string voltage from time to time... You'd see a drop of 1/3 of the open string voltage... But off course, seeing that in a dashboard is much easier. However; now they know, they haven't missed out on anything and are not going to change anything about it? Time and money would have been better spent going to a university or similar and enroll some electrical engineering courses. (But that's not something you show your potential customers) It's a shame that this level of nonsense is still being spread on a channel like yours..there are so many nuances just being "passed by" for the sake of easy/sales. And the worst thing... Many electricians etc. Just take these videos for truth.

[@blaap]

At kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6Smg3uqhpupj6s you mention that a normal string converter would loose a lot of power (down to 70-80%) if one or more panels has a fault (most likely a diode has shorted resulting in 33% loss of power). That's not the case. Both SolarEdge with power optimizers and a string inverter would give the same amount of energy. SolarEdge does point you quickly to the panel with a fault which would be very difficult to find with a string inverter. The only way to do that with a normal string without disconnection the panels is to use a thermal camera on a sunny day. But it is easy to detect that you have a failed panel with a string inverter. For that you need to monitor the string voltage. Each section of a panel that fails will drop the string voltage by one third of the panel voltage (~15V depending on the panel). But which panel causes the fault? Power optimizers or micro inverters really shine when some of the panels are shaded by trees. Hard shadow like from a chimney will simply bypass one or more sections of the panel. And as you mention if you add a different type of panel to an old string, power optimizer can get all the energy from the new panel which a string cannot. Disadvantage of having optimizers on each panel is that they tend to fail more often that the panel they monitor. So maintenance can be pain if the roof is not easy to access...

[@philiphockey7996]

Having fitted solaredge,Tigo,Huawei and enphase the least amount of problems I’ve encountered is with Tigo and they work with practically any inverter while returning excellent productivity in any situation. had loads of solaredge Optimizers and inverters go down most suffering by being fitted to non shaded roofs however on different orientations they seem ok Enphase are good as a all in one unit but seem to suffer from coms issues on the gen1 display second generation is much better.Huawei to early to say yet as to reliability but product seems strong and there inverters seem to outperform most conventional string inverters.

[@efixx]

Great feedback - thanks 🙏

[@goober-ll1wx]

Why are those battery packs so big?? the Tesla PW is 13.5kwh and is super slim and compact in comparison!

[@VinoVeritas_]

Tesla Powerwalls contain a different cell chemistry that's more energy dense, but much more dangerous.

[@goober-ll1wx]

@@VinoVeritas_ not seen any reports of TPW fires online... I think having energy stored at this density is always going to be potentially dangerous...

[@DSC800]

@@VinoVeritas_ they also don't last as many charge cycles as LFP chemistry, something less than half. Not sure, but I think I read Tesla is changing to LFP though.

[@bdblazer6400]

how is this video 1 hour old and got comments from 12 days ago? xD time travel?

[@efixx]

It’s linked to a previous video in the series

[@01001011011010010110]

Sorry but that system is gross, absolute spaghetti mess, id be sent back to site to fix that in my own time if i left a job like that