UPDATED Frosthaven Banner Spear full review

[@MandatoryQuest]

Made some editing tweaks, additions, and a new intro to better reflect the new 'grant' movement rule effects. Thank you everyone who pointed this out in the original video comments and on the Discord. Its really important to me that I get this information correct to give everyone the best insight, so I really appreciate it when you all let me know. With that in mind there might be an odd sentence here or there I missed, so please watch the intro for full clarity. This character will probably rise to the top along side the Drifter I think as a popular and powerful choice of starter. It's even perhaps over powered when paired with the Boneshaper as the synergy is so high for just a two starter pairing. Become a Patron for early access to videos - www.patreon.com/mandatoryquest Grab some sweet merch - www.mandatoryquest.com

[@ThatOtherPerson]

This and the Boneshaper are probably the classes I'm most interested in trying out.

[@TruckDrivinGamer]

Late to the party, but I'm loving your videos. One thing I noticed as the video went along. You seemed to forget that the blue hexes aren't just for your summons, they're for all allies, including other players. Like the level 8 card. I don't think it's your summon (or anyone else's), that's in there "tanking", I think the idea is that you're moving up behind another player who's been the focus this round and the enemies all converged on them. You're able to use movement to get adjacent to them and perform a melee attack as if you were in their hex. It's an amazing powerful ability! I'll tell you what, this game sends to be geared towards much more player interaction and cooperation, and I love it! The shadow character, the Geminate, this character, they all truly rely on working together so much. I think playing this solo will be a thousand times better running 3 characters over just running 2. Anyway, thank you so much for these videos, I'm gonna get back to watching the next 3...😆

[@MandatoryQuest]

Thanks glad you like the videos :) Yeah for sure this character will need great coordination with its initiative. It doesn't have to be summons of course, but the more allies you have the better the opportunities. Definitely feels like the communication rules will be stretched with some of the starters. It could mean a few more busted turns when things don't quite go your way.

[@josiahpenn88]

This video got me so excited to play this character!!!

[@seanv42]

One big thing to consider with these banners is many times getting a partial use isn't harder than level one formations. You get an attack four wound version of rally blow in meat grinder. The explosive epicenter card can be used just like unbreakable wall. Partial high level formations are still on average an above curve attack.

[@MrShritz]

That! A lot of people seem to think that missing out on optimization with Bannerspear is bad, but u can still do a lot of damage by partially doing formations. To me this character really comes down to opportunism

[@drew23555]

Glad to see you got there with the edited text on Taunting Howl. I think this will commonly be one of the most underrated cards in the game but it's actually insane. Especially when considering Tri-Thrust or Barricade just before it, which are both really difficult to setup but really powerful. Now you can just have any formation you want at 11 initiative.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yeah it really is the perfect card for this character. It’s going to be interesting playing in cramped corridors, and with awkward obstacles too. Jump is going to be crucial I think.

[@blubblubwhat]

@@MandatoryQuest in cramped up corridors or with to many obsticals its horror from my first play..

[@arjunbaweja7755]

This class seems REALLY good with the boneshaper!

[@chaslyndrilling7380]

commenting for the YT algorithm. love the content man!

[@MandatoryQuest]

Love you Chas 😘

[@chriskalisk]

The top attack on Driving Inspiration (level X) has innate advantage in the final printed card, fyi!

[@blubblubwhat]

Thx

[@cyberware5323]

The formations mechanic reminds me of the fight scene in Civil War, when Bucky and Cap beat the crap out of ironman. This is so Epic.

[@shuttlecrossing7084]

Banner Spear is an amazing class but suffers from "build around this card, it defines your class" syndrome in a way that no other class really does. Other classes give you the card you're supposed to play around at Level 1 (One with the Mountain for example), but Banner Spear doesn't give you that card until Level 5 (Explosive Epicenter). So the first few levels are fine for early scenarios, but if you ever retire the character and someone else plays it, they're missing a key piece for a long time.

[@rjans3847]

I imagine playing this class with the voidwarden from Jotl would be kinda broken, two classes granting move and attacks to allies would be interesting. Throw in a boneshaper aswell and you have RTS mode!

[@JJ-ku8bm]

Hold looks incredible, this is a card you want to play when you open any room especially full of ranged units (it may be difficult to reach them in the first round in which you open a room, it gives you and allies time to prepare the slaughter), you enter with a bottom move in the middle of the room with the lowest/quickest initative allow squishier friends to safely enter the room and survive easily, 2nd lvl 5 card seems very difficult to utilize, but maybe there are scenarios where you are surrounded by enemies, but as it's non burner attack against 6 enemies with push(to traps) and repositiong, very interesting(bottom explosive i guess not as useful, as it seems, to expenive as a burner, and without that we have allies and other grant ally movement, which can help in positioning) very difficult choice at this level

[@xethnyrrow]

Nice card review! I always thought this class looks interesting and it's meeting my expectations Level 2: Meat Grinder - The birb summon (trained falcon, level 4) will be awesome to use for this and make it very easy to pull off. Level 9: Hail of Spears - Use this with the banners next to you then follow with the bottom of Level 8 Taunting Howl. This way you move up and move those banners safely back behind you all in the same turn.

[@MuLangeMu]

Love the thematics on the lvl 9card "hail of spears" picking up the banners and throwing them as range attacks

[@blubblubwhat]

Thx for the levl 9 and botom of 8 tipp

[@Yeldibus]

1:16 You can't *OVERSTATE* it enough. You see, understate is the opposite of OVERstate. Here, you want to highlight how strong something is, so you'll want to say "I can't OVERstate". For some reason, almost everyone gets this wrong...

[@bradmeyer6273]

I'm excited for every starter, way more than I was for Gloomhaven's Scoundrel, Brute, or Spellweaver. Kind of hesitant about the Geminate because of the complexity of two hands, but still excited to see what it can do in capable hands.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yeah every starter is looking interesting in its own way. You can really tell these have been tweaked and tuned much more.

[@blubblubwhat]

Dont play geminate together with this class they have anti synergy

[@drew23555]

Hey, just got to level 4. As another commenter pointed out: Boldening Blow's Attack (with Disarm as an added effect) only targets one enemy in the red hexes, not all of them.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Ahhh right I understand now. It’s templated a bit strange with the new layout. Im still getting used to it.

[@drew23555]

@@MandatoryQuest Yeah, understandable. The fact that the Disarm is just floating there in the bubble rather than in-line with text.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yeah the bubble sometimes reads like it’s separate or added rather than relating to the attack. Just something to get used to.

[@lapulperiamtg]

I really don't see why the "when you long, an ally moves 2" perk is a good one. It's just really a small move, and you might have short rests instead here and there

[@MandatoryQuest]

It's marginal for sure but in general characters who use charge based items (tanks) will usually force a long rest to reset items. If you are a large hand size character you also usually long rest more than those with small hands.

[@michaeledmonds4849]

Set for the Charge top: with the new Invisibility change where monsters can move thru you on their path to a target...go invisible at a choke point, and all the monsters that go thru take the 2 damage. Or as a room enter card, move in with shields and play it, watch all the melee monsters come to you an take the damage.

[@amansparekh]

Seems like it could combo well with the fast slow character since they have lots of movement with jump and lots of all allies effects

[@MoriWhas]

This is only for the gameboard or it will be released on PC Game? Thanks. Nice video!

[@Hisokegon88]

56:25 Do summoned allies not have their own allies deck? I am not sure about it and would like to know if you use your deck or the allies deck as an attack modifier. Thanks

[@MandatoryQuest]

They use the summoner's (players) attack modifier deck.

[@mathiasg.1915]

The bottom of Combined Effort, du I move my fellow players or do they? Do I move sommons of others players or do they? I would they Banner Spear can move any ally but the player characters but I'm not sure. Can't find a rule for this one.

[@meathir4921]

I think the one frustration is that the best Banner stops you from taking Hail of Spear

[@MandatoryQuest]

Level 10 house rules incoming

[@arjunbaweja7755]

@@MandatoryQuest 1000exp!

[@arjunbaweja7755]

Even better, complete all masteries

[@sirhasslich536]

Oh wow, regardless of its effectiveness, Hail of Spears has just so much flavor, especially the top. Just the idea of the card is top-notch, much like Bone Horde

[@b0nagecrew634]

For meat grinder (Lvl. 2) the formation can be rotated 90 degrees and shouldn’t be as bad to set up.

[@stephenchambers6039]

Always important to remember your can reorientate the formation. You dont have to do them "head on" , you can do them from the side

[@blubblubwhat]

Its as easy to set up as the disarm one.. with the potential two hot two taegets for massiv target.. i think author didnt get it when he reviewed it

[@eharps4015]

For Boldening Blow, if you were to attack all enemies in the red hexes, and then disarm 1 of those enemies, wouldn't the disarm be separated by a line to show that it is a separate part of the action?

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yes that’s my mistake if the disarm was split off it would be on its own line. The new templates catching me out there. Still a great card though.

[@blubblubwhat]

Let them come is realy strong. Hit 1-3 🎯 poison plus dmg 2 same targets plus heal 4!? Thats insanly strong and on a easy pattern and amazing value!

[@Kentchangar]

We're about to start FH and one of the people has chosen Banner Spear. Are Blink Blade and Deathwaker good choices to go with Banner Spear (these are our first choices)? Or should we go with Blink Blade and Boneshaper?

[@MandatoryQuest]

I think that depends on what kind of build the Deathwalker goes. If they go for a ranged build they wont contribute to formations much which could be a problem. Boneshaper is definitely the safer pick in terms of getting the Bannerspear online, and Blinkblade is just a great pick anyway.

[@sammuriello8732]

You misunderstood boldening blow. It only attacks one character in the given red hexes, not all four. It’s still strong as it disarms and blesses your allies, but it is not a four hex nonloss disarm.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yeah I said I wasn't sure at the time.

[@stephenchambers6039]

I went through the video for a 2nd time on 2x to see id this class could be played as a ranged fighter. While you could spec that way you would also have to so some melee formation attacks every now and then, along with banners and support abilities due to lack of consistent range attack

[@MandatoryQuest]

You could use some of the formations with allies in front of you and the bigger AoE’s I guess. That’s sort of pseudo ranged, and makes sense for your positioning.

[@hammerspace8866]

I think hail of spears can be really interesting. The top really helps with moving banners. It might put the banners at risk, but the bottom can help you get the banners back and might help with doing a good formation attack that round. Like barricade or boldening blow. Btw just to be sure, when the banners say ally that can mean you because you are an ally of your banners, right?

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yes banners also buff you, your right though if we were creating the buff the way its worded we wouldn't get the effect. I really like both level 9's they both feel very powerful and useful and pretty interchangeable really. The bottom is good but it does only net you 1 extra card on the deal which typically I'm not a huge fan of. However its thematic here and the top is bad without the banners, so it gets some good use out of the card once the top becomes less useful which is great. Its making me want to play this character twice just to try out all the other cards I wont use the first time.

[@hammerspace8866]

@@MandatoryQuest Actually the bottom of hail of spears doesn't really net you any cards since you are direcly playing those banners again. So with 2 banners in play/discard and then playing the bottom of hail of spears will be costly. But the ability to charge into the last or 2nd last room and and do a great formation attack is probably worth it. I think formation attacks will normally be hard to pull off when entering rooms. I'd be almost inclided to use the +3 move when entering a room perk to fall back and let the enemy come to us tactics, with a card like set for the charge.

[@MandatoryQuest]

​@@hammerspace8866 Its still a net value gain getting essentially 1 free bottom action, but I see your point. Our hand will be very taxed at that point and having them back in hand would arguably be better. Like you say its more for the final room last hurrah charge. I think Let Them Come could be a great door jam formation, although the shield banner on the bottom might end up being quite usable. So many good options with this character!

[@justincburns]

First! Banner Spear looks simple yet fun with ally support.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yep definitely going to be a favourite starter for a lot of people I think.

[@blubblubwhat]

40:18 no no no doesnt synegizes at all good with gimini their range side can only attack from certain positions he wont give up his attacks for u to perform your formations.

[@blubblubwhat]

1:40:12 nope they hate her.. but she is amazing.. no comparison to triangle crap.

[@ethanbarton]

I'm not sure I understand the new summon rules based on what you said in this video

[@MandatoryQuest]

So summons can now take a step towards their summoner on their turn if they can't find a focus. This is to help them from being left behind a bit. You can also now summon on to gold piles where as before you couldn't. This will help with setting up the bannerspear formations. For example a boneshaper or other ally could summon on to a spot early in the round to set it up. They aren't huge changes but subtlety quite useful.

[@blubblubwhat]

​@@MandatoryQuestbut isnt the big change u advertise in thos future MQ that grand mouvme t now allows u to say how it mouves and the pet doesnt decide anymore?

[@blubblubwhat]

Attention! Don't play this hero with gimini like suggested in this video!.This hero has anti synargie with gimini.. it is often said in this video that giminy would profit from this class but gimini cant atack from where u want him to be in range so dont play those 2 classes together mode.. so

[@tyburnett8308]

Can the regroup card be used on yourself or is that for allies only?

[@MandatoryQuest]

The bottom is only allies and you are not considered an ally of yourself. Top is free to use however you like though.

[@davescrams]

I worry about keeping the summons alive.

[@MandatoryQuest]

You can move them around nicely with the new card effects some what which can keep them alive, but yeah that’s the risk/reward of summons. I think most Banner Spears will also need a fellow mercenary to help them out making these sometimes too.

[@blubblubwhat]

Only the banners need to stay alive your non lost are bottoms and u can play them in the same round u want to build the formation for the atack.

[@larsscheele9914]

Is it just me or is the formulation of the first Mastery a bit... vague? "Attack at least three targets with three different area of effect attack abilities". Does it mean that there have to be three enemies which each have to suffer from three (or more) different AoEs? OR does it simply mean that we need to use three different AoEs in the course of the scenario each having to hit three or more targets (which might or might not be the same for each AoE)?

[@MandatoryQuest]

I think it’s the latter. Basically perform 3 different area of effect attacks that target at least 3 enemies each time in a scenario. At the very earliest with no enhancements you could do this from level 2 with the cards Unbreakable Wall, Resolved Courage, and Meat Grinder. It’s a simple one but deceptively tricky I think.

[@aaronsalinas3854]

Im confused about 7 damage and stun since most bossses are immune to stun and the. Enemies dont have that much health normally.

[@nicholasshopoff7308]

If I remember correctly, elite cave bears and earth elementals could get around 20hp at higher levels?

[@funmaker77]

Let them come top doesn't require any enemies.

[@Acriwix]

@jannisnoahhanke3916 Sorry for a reply to an old comment, but in case you or anyone else still reads this, it's incorrect: FAQ states "Any abilities in an action with a formation attack that reference the formation for targeting require the formation attack to have been performed. In the case of Let Them Come, if no enemies were attacked in this formation, no heal takes place."

[@blubblubwhat]

​@@Acriwixrealy so sad:/

[@steve0p110]

Banner Spear is a terrible class if you play with others. Your allies will move forward killing things b4 you can even get to them or by the time you get your summons into positions or use then they will already be dead or there will be no enemies around for you to do anything.

[@blubblubwhat]

Play on difficulty higher and with communication so that doesnt happen to you.

[@KingOfTheDungle]

So... Your team is too good?

[@Flamingcloud083]

I was kind of meh on the class.. Then I saw the last two perks.. holy crap lol.. you can +3 move and +2 shield when you open a door? That is crazy. Still very worried about the formations though.. Kinda feel like these classes are overall weaker than the top 50% of the Gloomhaven classes.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Definitely weaker overall or at least weaker toolboxes. They are going to make you have to work for your damage, stun, disarms etc. Its one thing I'm a bit worried about actually. I hope the game doesn't become too bland in the pursuit of perfect balance.

[@Flamingcloud083]

@@MandatoryQuest I am mostly just worried the class is bordering on D tier or worse in 2 player with a non-summon partner. Having a D tier starter classes is a problem if the game is tuned to be at least as hard as Gloomhaven (Tinkerer is actually just as good as the others from level 1-4)... Lots of people low rate Triforce and I think he is perfectly fine so I am not opposed to having to work for my class to be good.. but this might be a little much. (Most worried about this guy and Boneshaper tbh..)... Just kinda wish there was a strong minimal formations build and minimal summons build for these two and I don't really see it as an option (unlike say Angry Face, Two Mini, Cthulhu which clearly had two different ways to build)

[@arjunbaweja7755]

@@Flamingcloud083 boneshaper actually fundamentally breaks this character and makes the combo super op

[@Flamingcloud083]

@@arjunbaweja7755 oh, I am sure they work together well in missions that aren't summon unfriendly.

[@blubblubwhat]

2:50 realy powerfull yes but ot seems nobody likes it or agrees with u and me^^

[@nthnthms1212]

Set the charge is so strong. wtf

[@MandatoryQuest]

I think it will be a move 4 on 6 initiative a lot of the time which is very very good, but I do like the upside potential of the top ability too. It could wreck high shield low health enemies for sure.

[@blubblubwhat]

​@@MandatoryQuestarent they range?

[@chaslyndrilling7380]

I like how the level 5 card is basically the lazy card of this class and you love it but for the geminate you hate it.

[@MandatoryQuest]

That free action though, its not lazy its v a l u e