Upgrade THIS First!? - Speakers, Amp, or Source????

[@cheapaudioman]

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[@toecutterjenkins]

I always say you don't know what your missing with hifi until you hear it , and once you do you can't go back . I remember finding speakers (kirksaeter 70s vintage) and hooking them up for the first time. It was like I was listening to music with earmuffs my whole life and them were just removed. I remember tearing up and getting emotional listening to music I've heard my whole life. Been chasing that feeling ever since.

[@michaelwright1602]

Me too, chasing the sound... And I finally found it. I've been chasing that sound of the 60's and 70's, those big cabinet speakers with the huge soundstage. About the only game in town up until recently, it has been Klipsch or JBL, but their pricing is ridiculous, downright criminal. And, I never cared for either's sound. When I was a kid I thought Klipsch was a German company, and that they were still at war with us. LOL! Then I stumbled upon the new KLH Model 5 speakers. The sound is gorgeous, they transported me back in time the second I ran the juice to them. Very Happy!

[@HarriGary1]

What you said about the speakers being like a filter really makes a lot of sense to me. Like looking through a colored lens. Thank you for this video. I'm a working man looking to get into this hobby seriously and I have so much new information to pour through and your videos have already helped me a lot and I just found your channel a couple of months ago.

[@cheapaudioman]

glad I could help!

[@michaelcorcoran8768]

Welcome to the hobby! If you're new to the hobby, the first thing I want to warn you is it's real easy to get hyped up for products and suffer from FOMO. But it actually takes a little while before you are comfortable enough with the terminology and the market to spend serious money. So start small. Personally, I try to avoid products that are being incessantly hyped up in at least until the hype dries up a bit to see if the product is good enough to stand the test of time. And avoid snake oil. Stuff like overpriced cables, MQA, and even some outrageously priced Dacs. I think it's better to start off with some cheaper pieces, and then as you develop your sound signature and your knowledge of the market, you can make the more sizable investments.

[@fadedlogic1]

Abandon all hope, ye who enter! Run! Don’t look back! Jokes aside, tread carefully, try and demo the gear before you buy or buy from someone with great return policies, and most importantly find something that aligns with your musical tastes and enjoy the music! Cheers!

[@HarriGary1]

@@michaelcorcoran8768 I made some 12ga. homemade speaker cables using Randy's guide on YT to save some money. I've been using an old onkyo and sony avr's I already had and have been suffering more of a analysis paralysis pouring over smsl, topping and ayima videos and reviews. So far the most I've spent is on the Elac Debut 6.2 speakers i got on a discount over the holidays and an open-box uturn orbit I got a deal on.

[@Feliciano12v]

For someone that is pretty content with their system, I really appreciate these types of topical videos.

[@jimf5160]

I agree...pick the speakers which sound the best for you in your price range...although you may have to upgrade your amp at the same time, depending on what you pick.

[@JP1050x]

I started out with an old mini stereo system that had decent components. My biggest upgrade was with speakers. It’s easiest to start with speakers, then work your way up the chain. Speakers will get you closer to the sound signature you might want, then pick an amp that would best drive the speakers to get the sound you want. The amp should also match which source material you want, because some amps will have a better DAC or phono stage, etc… The amp can also have a built in streamer, which is the final source for many folks. But, buying an amp without any digital features might be the right choice for many folks, since it will give you more options when choosing source components. There are a lot of great options for active (powered) speakers though, and many have all the features many folks might want. So, if you don’t think you want the versatility of choosing components, active speakers, such as Klipsch The Fives, or KEF LS50 Meta Wireless are some nice choices.

[@Techthusiasm]

Great video! I agree on the speaker focus, but also positioning and the room has so much effect on the speaker's actual performance. Speakers can also probably stay with you the longest so they really want to be a wise choice. Amps have certain tone too, and I've found it important to match speaker design and amp design. Sources can change more frequently as tech and services evolve the most.

[@krom447]

Room treathment is important in many cases too.

[@markcarrington8565]

Hey Randy, great video. A long time ago, in a country far, far away (from you), Scotland, a man called Ivor first coined the phrase, “rubbish in, rubbish out”. People were cynical because the turntables he was selling were some of the most expensive on the market at the time. The company was, of course, Linn and they still sell high end turntables today. I bought one in 1985 and was a convert to source first. Since then, I’ve burned through a whole raft of gear and I agree with your main points. Being British and having an insufferable holier than thou attitude, I naturally hate tone controls, but, hey, nobody’s perfect. Some things I’ve picked up along the way. Firstly, some speakers are harder to drive than their paper specs would have you believe. In my case, a pair of inexpensive Monitor Audios seemed a bit too boomy in my small listening room. I tried many alternatives and also several similar modest amps. It’s only when I hooked up an amp with more power that they actually gained a proper grip of the drivers and I realised it wasn’t a room problem after all. Secondly, if you put detail into a system in the front end, it pays dividends to not let it be obscured as it passes along the chain. Things which obscure detail include cables and power supplies. After you find the major components which meet your needs, I would focus on incremental changes to these parts before moving on with new amps and speakers. I could go on to the benefits of replacing components inside the boxes, but I suspect as only 1% of humans are audiophiles and only 1% of us are into opening the boxes, these comments would be largely redundant. I’m with you on the journey thing; enjoy it!

[@christinearmington]

One percent - must be nice. 😉😆😏🤦‍♀️

[@stevezeidman7224]

Great discussion video. For years the audiophile mantra has been speakers first. It’s nice to hear another perspective.

[@emptyagain5000]

Thankyou so much for your ever inciteful and informative audio 101 tutorials. Your no-nonsense, straightforward, and subtley entertaing, observations are almost single -handedly responsible for the final choices I made over the past weeks in purchasing my first quality, affordable startup system. Still waiting for my (upgradeable) Flunce 82 and can't wait to experience the balance (you helped provide me) between quality and attainability. Looking forward to many more reviews!

[@yvesboutin5604]

Just to add my 2 cents, I wish to say the synergy between amp and speakers is one of the reason why a system doesn't deliver even if the amp and the speakers are of good quality. An amp with enough muscle to control the drivers wayward impedence is certainly something to pay close attention to. Randy, you are getting better and better at this! Keep it up!

[@Johnman9000]

I think the differences in sound quality observed from amplifiers starts to diminish once you get out of the budget category. I have a hard time hearing the differences between $600+ power amplifiers. But can easily hear the differences between $60-200 amps. I think those observable differences are actually just weaknesses.

[@SonicTheo]

and nowadays you have cheap amps/dacs relatively (100-200) that measure very well.

[@BrianGarside]

Great detailed explanation on how these all play a role. All three are important. The challenge is figuring out if you have a weak or bottleneck component that holds your system back from its potential. That's where synergy comes in to play. I would agree the DAC is the most important. Then all the components are great then the recording is the last variable to consider as Randy discusses.

[@DougMen1]

Bravo Randy! This is the very best, most intelligent, and most informative video you've ever made in the history of your channel. You've really done a great job describing everything perfectly. The only thing you haven't touched on is how unpredictable synergy can sometimes be, where sometimes pairings that look good on paper may not sound very good, whereas others that don't look that good on paper can be surprisingly good. I also applaud you telling people that it's often better to tweak what you have than to be constantly chasing something better, because many reviewers see their job as helping manufacturers sell more and more product, often to people that don't really need to change anything they have, but always believe that the grass is greener somewhere else. I think we all get far too hung up on the gear and forget about the reason we have it. My favorite pieces are those that don't call attention to themselves, and aren't screaming "listen to me, I'm SO hi-fi", but are instead saying "I'm not here, listen to the music". I'll take a flawed piece that gets out of the way and leaves me listening to the music instead of the sound, over another perhaps better piece that always has me listening to the sound rather than the music. Finally, there's one KZbinr who covers super high end gear, and is constantly switching from one $200k speaker to the next every couple of months, and proclaims it's the best ever, until a couple of months later it's replaced by a new one which is now the best ever. He does the same thing with amps, leading me to seriously question both his judgement and his integrity. I don't always agree with you, after all we all hear things differently, and we don't even know if we hear the same thing because we can't listen through each other's ears. The same is true of looking at colors. Many times on the guitar forums some will find a particular paint job more green while others think it's more blue. But, I always trust that you're being honest about what you hear and what you like and I have never once questioned your integrity. Keep up the good work. I applaud you!

[@troyporter287]

Thanks Randy I think this is especially important to people new to hobby. It's all about how your components work together. It's also about room acoustics and personal taste

[@louissilvani1389]

I agree synergy and the room very important all things being equal 😊 thanks

[@welderfixer]

Randy, I'm so glad that after watching this I can feel comfortable that you say it's okay for me to enjoy my simple and cheap set-up. Old Dell desktop PC motherboard audio output (Dolby Atmos for headphones installed and turned on) into the RCA jacks on my Aiyima A07 amp out to my Sony SS-CS5 speakers. Sources: Amazon Ultra HD and now Tidal. Total spent on gear - about $350. Thank you and have a great audio day!

[@cheapaudioman]

Bet it sounds awesome, Kevin!

[@welderfixer]

@@cheapaudioman The odd thing is, I don't know if it really does sound awesome or not. However, It does sound great to my old/abused hearing circuits and I am very happy with it and sometimes surprised with the performance. But, here's my thoughts on "awesome sound" - who is the people responsible for judging the quality of audio produced from any system? What qualifies those people as judges of audio systems? How does a system owner hire those people to judge his/her system? What media and recording is used as the source data(music or audio frequency signal)? Who certifies the source data? And, on and on... Yes, the "rabbit hole" hole is deep.

[@Sylvan_dB]

@@welderfixer "if it really does sound awesome" is completely up to you. At least, it's up to you until you invite someone else into the room. 😉 If you think it is good, it is good. The end.

[@goodforwatch]

Same for me, I saved a bit on the speakers as the sony’s were 300 looneys. I went with Fluance SX6 and an optical into Ayima D03 from my TV hooked up with the new Chromecast. Still cost me 500 looneys all in! Ridiculous!

[@michaelknibbs]

That’s a bargain system and should be resolving. But are you sure that atmos is a better experience? Personally, I think it’s weird. It creates phase oddities and seems artificially fragmented. I have listened to live music a good deal and atmos seems like the worst treatment yet.

[@danstein2467]

Hi Randy. Great advice for new and long-term audiophiles. I agree, synergy is most important. Keep up the great work!

[@VideoWill]

😂😂 I like the loudness button 😂😂 “It’s like bacon and butter, you can never have too much!” YES!! Ha love this!

[@kyleo2113]

Nice video Randy - sometimes hard to know what to upgrade next - when upgrading speakers became cost inhibitive to reach the next level I started upgrading the entire chain starting with switching from an avr to separates, upgrading subs, adding a streamer, upgrading cables and now I am on to amplification - biggest surprise were cables and interconnects - a friend gave me some Kimber Kable speaker and interconnects and despite my doubts it actually made a difference - maybe just more solid connections but whatever the case it was a noticeable improvement, obviously not as big as a processor or subs and I think diminishing returns apply but it was still significant enough for my son to identify the improvement almost immediately

[@ginom407]

Great Perspective! I tend to get caught up in the hunt rather than the end result. My system(s) fill my soul with happiness, but it's easy lose focus on that when you're chasing every "next best thing".

[@cheapaudioman]

I know it, Gino. It's fun though

[@michaelcorcoran8768]

Absolutely, I think all of us get sucked into the consumption becoming the crux of the hobby at some points. And of course you're going to buy products. You want to know what you're buying. But sometimes the shopping becomes more important than the music and that's when you need to stop by and stuff and just enjoy the music you have and the equipment you have. Unless it's just totally unsatisfactory.

[@shaunyweavey2470]

For along time, I've had issues with speakers,and I've bought some only to be disappointed down the line . However finally I have found, to my ears at least the perfect match . But that's all down to this channel, thanks Randy your helping many music lovers achieve there goals .

[@shaunyweavey2470]

@@miata1492 Oh dear, while correct I suggest you get a life .

[@cheapaudioman]

Thanks! I appreciate it and I'm having a blast

[@miff227]

Which speakers did you stick with?

[@shaunyweavey2470]

@@miff227 By accident I got offered a pair of acoustic energy Evo 3, I thought £50 why not looked in fabulous condition . If I said they blew me away it will be an understatement . Great from top to bottom . I recently bought a wharfdale sub, which has elevated the triangle br02 into stationery orbit around heaven . My point been I was shocked just how well the Evo 3 suited my system, and as they say many a good tune in an old speaker . Old, cheap, and wonderful . I must add I have acquired Elac unifi that sound rough, but I trust in Randy they will come good . There really is alot to be said for a three way speaker .

[@cheapaudioman]

@@shaunyweavey2470 I took care of it already.

[@Braedon2011.]

Listening to this on the day I plug in the cables to my new setup. Two years of questioning and deciding and watching your videos in the making. Finally here w the Emotiva B1+, Loxjie a30, Schiit Mani, and Fluance 82 with a Nagaoka MP110 added on. Should have a good listen once this video finishes :) thank you for everything!

[@timothyfreeseha4056]

Yes. Big differences are not necessarily improvements. I agree that if you don't know than there is not any reason to jump to a change.

[@jatsajatsa]

The elephant in the room is of course, that you never REALLY know where the source of a sonic characteristic is (speakers, amp, source) unless you have the luxury of swapping things out or a very patient audio shop. All characteristics are ultimately coloured (if not directly caused) by the speakers because, as you said yourself, they are in endpoint "filters", the last link in the chain.

[@rompstar]

You always start with the best speakers you can get your hands on of course, since that makes the sound that you hear with your ear… you know music and the you fit everything else around the speakers ;) it’s also good to get versatile equipment so that you can get other speakers later, because they are like shoes… no one shoes fits all situations, otherwise we all would be wearing the same shoes, cheers!

[@therobesse]

This is an excellent video with some very thoughtful insights, will need a rewatch a few times to let it sink in - thumbs up sir!

[@alm5693]

Thanks for emphasizing the importance of quality source components. This video and your 1/30 phono preamp video are a great pairing for anyone wanting to really enjoy vinyl.

[@NeilBlanchard]

Yup - that about covers it! It takes some effort - but that involves listening to music, so that's fine. And in the end, you may just enjoy the music, even more than you already do. And that is a great thing.

[@Bozakky]

Mindful choices. Perfect. Simple. Brilliant.

[@BUBSWORLD181]

Fantastic video! I am often guilty of not leaving well enough alone. I love my current sound but still can't help but upgrade. My next move will be to purchase an external Phono PreAmp and switch off the internal one included in my Turntable. That way I can truly test to see if I can hear a difference. Also new high quality cables is another way to upgrade without risking sound quality. Thanks, Randy.

[@Anand.Asrani]

Hey Randy ,I really didn't want this video to end ..Pure joy !

[@tpr299]

Cables, definitely cables. Silver coated wire with gold connectors, marked for proper direction so I’m not confused, a bejeweled ground wave diffuser, and shielding as thick as fire hose…… I’ll buy the amp, sources, and speakers later when I get a second job.

[@nabman_]

Excellent reasoning and explanation. 👍👍👍. I always say source 'extracts', amplifier 'preserves' and speakers 'deliver'.

[@cheapaudioman]

I like that

[@stanleycostello9610]

Just like wild strawberry jam which my Mom used to make. Wild strawberries make the best jam (extracts), small batches (preserves) and then eating (delivers).

[@Toogoodtobetrue458]

I agree the source is important add this bit to that- it’s the recording that’s ultra important- using your photo as the metaphor you take a Polaroid picture and compare it to picture of the same subject with a canon camera - canon comes out better everytime.

[@takuminishijou5697]

I think you hit this on the nose. Bad source = bad sound no matter what other equipment you have. Another way to improve sound is to improve the crossover in the speakers you already have. Even expensive speakers have cheap crossover components. If your system sounds decent and has good component harmony improve the crossover parts to give the speaker the ability to perform its best. Good components inside your speakers are the other things I have found improved my system almost as much as the source. Many upgrades are available to make a speaker sound flatter but a simple 1 to 1 replacement of the values you already have with better parts is relatively easy and gives good gains in performance. It certainly improves the overall clarity. Great video as always!

[@miff227]

My light bulb moment was trying my system (base level 90s stuff at the time...Cambridge CD player, Tannoy 603) with my friends older Sony ES amp instead of my Denon PMA 350 (? something like that anyway). The improvement to the sound was tangible, but hard to describe. Just sounded more natural. It was really surprising to me that an amp made that much difference.

[@veeclash4157]

I think the rule of thumb is speaker>amp>dac in terms of sound quality. ✌️

[@dinsy512]

Nice wrap-up, Randy. I actually became an “audiophile” because of source components. Through the nineties I was perfectly happy with my entry level Akai system and its turntable and tape deck. Then I decided to add my first CD player and, thinking they all sounded the same, I bought the NAD 510 for AUD $400. And playing my favourite piano CD’s (I did have some CDs for a little boom box CD player) sounded quite nice to me. BUT: the NAD didn’t have the programmable tracks function that the shop assured me it had, so I swapped it for a Sony 5-disc changer, and when I listened to those same piano CDs, the noted sounded like teaspoons hitting tin cans! Very hard edged and unrefined. And thus my quest began!

[@glenncurry3041]

I've always found the first thing I had to upgrade first to get my HiFi up to where I want it is my JOB!

[@DismasM]

Source, SOUrce, SOURCE!!! I was going to comment without watching but then figured you'd get there, Randy. Your phone camera is a good one. The preamp, amp and speakers are only going to magnify problems from the source. Great amp and great speakers are only going to make a shitty source sound more shitty. I guess I was a Linnie long enough to absorb the 'source' philosophy. A decent source can make average speakers sing. Great speakers will make a weak source sound weak. It's math!

[@sviktor4]

When I started my audio journey I had nothing to start with just a pair of LG HIFI speakers and a quickly assembled amp, I like building amplifiers but how to tell them apart with a bad system. The general advice is to get a decent pair of speakers first, then you could decide what to replace first, so I set up my budget and decided to build my own speakers rather than buy. I choose the EKA kit from SB Acoustics, after that I heard the problems in different amps and in the PC sound card, then I decided I need a good sound source, set my budget again and choose the Topping D10 DAC, only then I can focus on the amplifier building. The audiophile community often full of bs and you have to filter out what makes sense and what is not, the end of the day one thing metters only can you hear the difference or not. Sometimes I get suggestions that I don't belive in, but this is not a religion and the problem description make some sense, so lets try it, and voala 90% of my problem dissapeared with a 2 USD solution, but first I just couldn't belive what is causing the problem. I still don't belive in cable direction, because you know we have AC signal, for me that's where the religion part comes in. I say that the speaker community finally makes sense, they show the measurements and can pinpoint on a graph the good and bad things in a speakers, manufacturers know for a long time what is pleasant to listen. My philosophy if you can't measure it its not there. The DAC and amp reviewers have to come up to a level when they can show us on a graph "see thats how it looks when I say tight" I love when they say forward they mean loud, lets be specific it has +2db bump in 1 to 1,2 kHz region.

[@kyron42]

I agree that sources are very important.

[@paulwebster9030]

My personal experience as a beginner audiophile of a couple of things that made a huge difference. Speaker cable, I told the sales person I wanted a descreet cable for my room and ended up with 17 guage QED micro, after switching to a standard 13 guage OFC cable I can definitively state that the thin QED cable significantly reduced the amount of bass response from the speakers so if you are using a cable under 14 guage and find bass is lacking a thicker cable may help. Second but definitely the thing most worth considering is a sub woofer, I was not entirely happy with my system and felt something was lacking until I bought a sub which has made a massive difference. It's not just the presence of deeper bass, a properly positioned and tuned in quality sub somehow enhances the sound overall and significantly deepens the sound stage, it's definitely more than the sum of its parts and may be the key to audiophile happiness for others as it was for me. I would also agree with Randy that tone controls or EQ are useful for saving your money on upgrades if you are using a digital source it's probably better to apply these changes at the digital level so your analogue components remain neutral. For instance I use a Raspberry Pi with MoOde and use MoOdes parametric EQ so the changes are at the digital level and the DAC passes the amended music to the amp which can operate without having to interfere with the source.

[@thisisnev]

Seems to me that the key is getting hold of an amp with as little coloration as possible, then experiment with sources and speakers. It's easier to play with two variables than three. Once you've dialled in the right source and front end for your ears, then maybe it's time to think about upgrading the amp.

[@aceofspades6667]

For me it’s all defining your use case and your listening preferences. BlueSound node + Amazon premium service has been a great source pair with my turntable. Next I’ve determined for my use case active monitors work best as one they work in a smaller room and they play really well at low levels. Low level listening performance is way underrated and hardly covered. Finally bass quality is way more important than bass quantity the same thing with treble performance. Bass and treble quantity are initially impressive but I’ll trade off quantity for quality for long term enjoyment.

[@russellmcquaid9950]

Schiit Loki if you absolutely have to add something to the signal path for incremental sound adjustments. Between the source and the pre. The less in your signal path to the amplifier better. You know you have a major problem to work through if you require a loudness button. That actually would be the first unit I would replace.

[@michaelwright1602]

The loudness button is just cool, and it does make a difference, normally for the better. I miss that old gear that I grew up with, bass, treble, balance knobs along with the LOUDNESS button. Just cool stuff, and totally understand where Randy is coming from. And yes, I own a few Loki's, they are cool too and do work with this modern gear.

[@ydid687]

great community and advice here, thanks people.

[@loukalapointehenaut8660]

It's a hard topic to give a final answer on, but when I think about it I tend to lean towards this order of priority: 1.speaker 2.source 3.amp My reasonning is that if your speakers really lack resolution you won't be able to hear the improvments on other components you buy. A good speaker might also make you rediscover the other components and appreciate how good what you already have is. It's also through speakers that you determine how your music will interact with the space you have. Raising the potential of the output will raise the benefits you can get from upgrading the rest later. Source comes second because it's there that you get the most out of every single detail you can output into the system. But hey in the end you have to determine what you think is the biggest shortcoming in your system and start there. If you have average speakers and an average amp but your source is an analog cable plugged in your phone's jack output, please start with a dac.

[@asphalthedgehog6580]

My experience of being enthousiast for almost 50 years: your system should allow you to play music all day without tiring you. I have a few very cheap Chinese class D amps with low power SMPS's that when played over my speakers with a cheap streamer fullfil that requirement. However: use other speakers with whatever source or amp, and you stop listening after 5 minutes. The most important for me in speakers is: phase must be perfect. I never heard an affordable 3 or 4 way system I liked: soundstage was always moving forward and backward with frequency. Second: not too much aggressiveness in the treble-region, indeed not to be confused with detail. For now I have a completely English setup; that's what I ended up with. Although... the AT33 comes from Japan.

[@flyingfinngt]

Always a tough question, because everything is important for good sound. But speakers can make the most impact, and the rest of your system, no matter how good it is, can't showcase what it can do if you don't have good speakers. So, speakers should be #1, and then focus on the other components next based on budget and where you think you may be lacking. (I'm glad there was no mention of cables in this video, and I'm not going to bring up the subject).

[@SovincPeter]

room acoustic > position of speakers > speakers > how well it is recorded in the studio (most music is) > amplifier > what medium is it recorded on (dac, cd, lp, mp3...) > cables

[@vwmountainman9701]

Very well thought out & represented. I am in the process of moving. I will finally have lots of space. The new to me home will allow me to experiment with much more gear - mostly speakers & placement. Anyway - very well said. Keep it up !!! Thank you again for ur work on this subject.

[@cheapaudioman]

thanks! You're probably in for a lot of fun

[@scottbaylor6215]

You said it but I think simply moving the speakers a little in your room can make a big impact. Nicely done.

[@cheapaudioman]

It does!

[@jonpatrick66]

Hey Randy, when you said that," the loudness button is like butter and bacon", I had to reply with a," damn right 👍" Ha! What a dumb, cheap thing to do when they started taking them off of integrated amps and receivers! Enjoy your show 👍

[@cheapaudioman]

thanks, man. Love the loudness button

[@terbo2000]

@@cheapaudioman I'm a Yamaha man and love me a Loudness knob!

[@gokhanersan8561]

Randy is my hero ! Music isn’t “creamy” when the amp doesn’t let you boost. So Randy can enjoy his Nirvana and I can enjoy my Whitesnake !!

[@cheapaudioman]

@@gokhanersan8561 make no mistake that I don’t enjoy “In the still of the night!”

[@markh.1487]

Someone mentioned the Yamaha loudness knob, I loved that too!

[@dereknelson7108]

great video! I went all over with my upgrades so far to hone in on the sound that I really liked and it took several steps, but it was really interesting hearing how different components changed things so drastically! My first "audiophile" set up was the klipsch r-51m, CB AXA35, and a project debut carbon with 2m red and a project phonobox. I chose to upgrade my speakers first to some wharfedale denton 80th, and then the TT cartridge to a sumiko olympia and it was much better but I put a lot of warmer components together and it was very noticeable and created a veiled sound. So now recently upgraded my amp to the CB CXA61 and now my setup sounds perfect for me! the cxa61 is much brighter than the axa35 and completely removed the veiled sound that I was hearing.

[@shawnorjiakor]

I agree with everything you said, Randy. The source (like a streamer) is the most important upgrade for a system. Regardless if it's passive or active. Great sources that compliments an amplifier bring amazing results. Synergy matters ALOT.

[@VintageStereoCollectorChannel]

Thanks for a great “Stop and think” vid. I have tone controls on several late 70s Luxman preamps that you have encouraged me to experiment with.👍👍

[@RobCCTV]

In my experience, my HiFi took three giant leaps forward as over three years I upgraded thus: From CD sources to streaming... ...from an old Pioneer amp to a Yamaha Integrated amp... ...from a 16 bit DAC to a 32 bit DAC... ...and finally, from Infinity RS_3001 speakers to Wharfedale Lintons. All of these steps represented great leaps in the fidelity of my system. Perhaps the two greatest leaps were the amplifier upgrade and the speaker upgrade. The one that stands out as the BIGGEST leap is the speaker upgrade. So perhaps I should have done the speaker upgrade first.

[@louiesipes2257]

Wise words. I think young people starting out today have so many more choices and access to different product than even 10 15 years ago. With Amazon you can try something and if you don’t like it return it. It’s so much better than even the days of hifi shops, their room doesn’t sound like your room. 👍

[@PaulDoldenDetails]

Thanks so much Randy your the king of common sense 🙌🏻🇬🇧

[@francescotenti193]

Thanks for another great video filled with knowledge, common sense and great advice without entering the world of "obsession" and "mental disorder" as I often see on other channels. It's supposed to be a fun hobby and not make us broke nor be committed to the nearest "Parkview".

[@cheapaudioman]

For sure. If you're not having fun with something that's as awesome as this then something is wrong

[@francescotenti193]

@@cheapaudioman Completely agreed!

[@odwatchguy]

Great overview of upgrades, Randy. Knowing what you don't like is the key to getting what upgrade will help get what you do like. Buying something because someone else likes it doesn't mean I will. Thank you for telling people to try cheap stuff first, moving your speakers, adjusting bass and treble and changing the input source.

[@cheapaudioman]

Thanks, Tony! appreciate you watching

[@the-patient-987]

The only thing I would add up to the list is considering the room or the space where you are gonna do the listening. Because if room acoustics go against what you are looking for you´re gonna have a hard time making any improvement.

[@CompetentSalesUSA]

Source is the primary component, everything after it changes the sound signature. The source is always the most important, after the room that the system is in. ☆ The room affects the sound more than any component.

[@Texacate]

Yes. I'm surprised room treatments were not mentioned. That's the upgrade I'm working on at the moment.

[@twohandsandaradio]

I think that's what he said.

[@frederikschannel]

Thank god for including video chapters!!!

[@danielcarlsson615]

Source in turntables is the cartridge,and when a turntable is tested one should test different cartridges! More the quality and how it works is the turntable. Not sound. Of course til some extent but stylus/cartridge is the biggest part of a tt. I have a project1:2 and the original shure black I think was noisy as hell. Have the o blue now. It’s way better. Then the preamp got changed. Big difference =)

[@jonsays3762]

That first bit you said…yeah: start with a Schiit Loki/mini+ Best $120 I spent, and I’m done done done buying new stuff. And I’m cleaning out a closet full of stuff that didn’t work for me, one reason or the other. That money is going to albums….lol Edit: the rest was good advice to…but a good baby eq will give you most of “different sounding”, at least to my novice ear holes. And, here’s yer upthumb.

[@4thewinir344]

Going from my early 90’s RadioShack ‘Realistic’ speaker system and Sony AVR that ‘looked’ the part for the better part of 2 decades, then going to a pair of $165 Elac B6 connected to the same 28yr old AVR, the awe for me came immediately from the better speakers. Unfortunately, hearing that much improvement for $165 has led me down the rabbit hole. As I enjoy my Costco House Blend coffee watching your video, I hope for a Saturday Speaker Shootout comparing those Lintons to your Critons.

[@cheapaudioman]

I actually don't have the Critons anymore. I do have enough parts from one that I could cobble something together but I'd need to get started quickly.

[@4thewinir344]

You WHAT?!? You sold the endgame bookshelf speakers that were too GOOD to keep around??? I’m flummoxed! How about your recollection of their sound vs. the Linton? Mine are a month or so away from being built. Wondering if they will bring me much more enjoyment than my Lintons…Until then, I’ll keep my fingers crossed for a shootout someday!

[@waynepollard6879]

Bacon and butter , I like that ! Reminds me of the saying ( I'm looking for a woman that looks at me , the way I look at bacon ). Thank you for the videos !!

[@atzeotze2256]

Use a digital active speaker and connect your source digital to it. If you take the money that you use for the amp, dac, cables etc. and put it into an active speaker, you get the best bang for the buck. If you want to adapt the characteristic, put in between the digital chain a mini DSP with live DIRAC.

[@ChicagoRob2]

Yes, that is the way I went. I picked up the Kali IN-8 v2, 3-way, coaxial monitors, tri-amped with DSP. Best $800 I ever spent on audio gear in the last 40 years. I sold my amp and picked up a fully balanced preamp for the Kalis. The overall sound quality is amazing.

[@michaelcorcoran8768]

Any good recommendations for combos??

[@atzeotze2256]

@@michaelcorcoran8768 if you want to spent more. The Dynaudio Xeo 30 is my favorit. You need only power for the speaker. The digital sources comes over Wifi with the Dynaudio Connect direct to the speakers in HD. Bluetooth and DSP is also integrated. Throw all the HiFi equipment out of the window, two speakers with a power cable each is all you need.

[@backrack01]

I went with upgrade amp first. It's neutral and has enough power and clean current to drive any speaker I desire. Also... dealer let me know about on a soon to be price hike on the amp I was looking at. He was right... I saved almost $1000. :) If you get a great pair of speakers...but ur amp isn't up to getting the full potential out of the speakers...what was the point? Hearing a speaker you love at a dealership...I can say with a 99.99% certainty they are using a really well made amp to drive it. Spend your dough on a well made clean amp...then audition speakers. A great amp will also let you know the weak links in your rig. :)

[@traviesolee72]

Bro, just gotta let you know the pre-roll video KZbin put up. It was an overweight dude trying to slim down by blow-drying his 'taint!!!! Beyond that: Excellent content as always.

[@stevensmith8793]

Loudness button = bacon and butter! That's why I watch you Randy, for gems like that.

[@kylevann6662]

Would love to see more videos highlighting some synergistic combinations, like the recommended components for a complete system at $300, $500, etc.

[@CompetentSalesUSA]

Randy. Need a video on room treatments, please.

[@canucklehead0]

I have a question. I'm absolutely 100% happy with my system, with one issue. I'm using my Dad's Kenwood KD-2055 turntable with a Linn cartridge. Here's my issue, I love the way this table sounds through my system (Carver Receiver HR742, California Audio Labs DX-1 Cd player, the turntable, Wharfedale E-20's with a Boston Acoustics passive subwoofer) So, should I preserve my late Father's table for one of my nephews for when I give up the ghost and buy another table for me to enjoy, or do I say screw the future and listen to that table till I check out?

[@robertwoodward9231]

That elac unifi 2.0 is what I'm getting hope the xax cambridge 35 is enough as I think the amp is more powerful than specs say..

[@randyfrazier5725]

Randy, Thanks again for your reviews on the Aiyima A07 amp and the Sony SS-CS5 speakers. They sound great!

[@jamband4230]

I think the biggest change you can make is your speakers. But like you said. It’s complicated. You might have good speakers and Mabey you need a better amp. You have to look at your system as a hole and decide what you want to improve. Do you want more bass? Do you want better imaging? Do listen to loud music or soft? Are you gonna notice the difference between a $100 dac and a $300 dac (probably not) source is important, but if your speakers and amp can’t resolve that source then you should start there. Really my opinion is speakers, amp, source, dac. But again if you have good speakers or a good amp you might have to adjust that equation. But your right the joy is definitely in the journey in this hobby. You have to move i steps. Very rarely do you go from a Bluetooth speaker to 10k system. There’s usually a lot of fun to be had in between those 2 steps

[@sidesup8286]

There is a scientific approach to what to upgrade first. I do agree with Randy's advice on the importance of source. Find what your weakest link is. If you have a receiver or integrated amplifier with a headphone input, you can hear how good your sound quality is up to and including the point of your amp by plugging in a set of headphones. If your sound is way cleaner, more refined and purer sounding with headphones, then what needs upgrading most is something further down the chain like interconnect to power amp, power amp itself, speaker cables and speakers. If you are really impressed by how good a sound quality you have at the point of your amp and headphones and think that is the kind of tonality and sound quality you are dreaming of getting through speakers, then direct your efforts at the latter part of your chain. But most of the time you are better off upgrading source components, the interconnect cables they are feeding the source to, and the preamp, if you have separates. Until I buy new headphones, I am currently getting by using some very old circa 1980ish Koss headphones. My source, cables and preamp are good enough that they make this old dinosaur of a headphone sound like it has no real weak points. They have planar like clarity and purity with what I am feeding them, but used with run of the mill equipment I'm sure they would sound like they have deficiencies in many areas. If you have a good source and every link in your chain is ultra clean sounding, it is amazing just how good just about any speaker or headphone will sound. You can throw almost anything at it, as far as speakers or headphones and they all sound wonderful. Turning it around the other way, if you have great speakers and the components and cables before it in the chain are not that good, you will not have good sound. Period. If your speaker is revealing enough, you may even hate your systems sound. Anyone that tells you its speakers first, is steering you in the wrong direction. Unless mass quantities of bass and dynamics are the main thing you are after and don't care anything about timbre and refinement, and all those nasty little stingy sounds that come from distortion and peaks in the frequency response. More dynamically dramatic or good sounding? The choice is yours. The latter choice is the better one, and if your perception and evaluation matures, you will be glad that is the path you chose. Set up and room acoustics sound boring but they can be every bit as important as what equipment you have. So go get em' tigers. Speaking of tigers, the Bengals lost, but their future is probably the brightest in football. Their fans that bet on them actually won, since as underdogs they covered the point spread. The Rams fans who bet on the Rams with the 4 point spread actually lost money, as the game was decided by only 3 points. The Bengals were 8-0 this year in games they were the underdog vs. the point spread. Still waiting to see if anyone dares playing anything that even sounds like electric guitar as background music to their skating routines in China, where rock and roll is illegal. In what other countries is rock and roll banned? Here is a clue on one of them: big hit for the group Flock Of Seagulls.

[@StrangerE0ns]

I’ve been wondering this for a week This is quite helpful

[@mikecampbell5856]

I would like to recommend a couple of test tracks. "Theme From Boat Weirdos" by Joe Walsh and "Jump Into The Fire" by Harry Nillson. The first has great acoustic guitar and the second has some very snappy drums at the end.

[@t3dewys]

After going through 4 amps, 3 CD players, 2 4 turntables, and 3 sets of speakers over the past 5 years, the speakers have made the largest impact. However, the cartridges on my TT’s have had a massive impact as well. I really think every piece of the puzzle needs to be addressed. I’m hoping I’m at my content state right now. Rega Planar 6 and Cambridge cd transport into a NAD 388 and output through Klipsch Fortes. I love it. Hopefully for a long time!!

[@cheapaudioman]

Awesome

[@frederickfranchi6408]

Source source source it is the way to go🤔 I have one of those mini D amplifiers with an EQ and with those Sony speakers the ones that cost 88 bucks on sale with a polk sub but the main source is U-turn basic with a Denon103r cartridge now the cartridge cost as much as the turntable the speakers the power amp and the sub!!!! And let me tell you I can't believe how great it sounds with that cartridge the soundstage is just unbelievable it's almost as good as my main system which is 5 times as much as all those components😮 It such a fun listen I can't believe how great is sounds😀😀

[@miata1492]

Congratulations, Randy, on an easy-to-follow, well- delivered tutorial that makes logical sense. Who can grok and follow “(insert brand name here) RBF32i Mark II enhanced A-plus deluxe,” or some other easily forgotten moniker, and the difference(s) between that and the Mark I model version? To further complicate, follow that with a description of two or more equally forgettable competitors’ descriptions of their models? The “KISS” principle applies here as well as universally.

[@cheapaudioman]

I try to keep things simple as possible. Thanks!

[@mattpobursky850]

@@cheapaudioman Sith Audio has the best product names. Just sayin'. 😎

[@Sylvan_dB]

Sometimes the sound seems muddy, especially in the bass. I hear this thru speakers, not when listening to the same source via headphones. I tend to blame the speakers, especially subwoofer (if present). Could it be the amp? You are definitely correct about the upgrade rabbit hole. 😬

[@veeclash4157]

Did you know some amps inputs are not built equally? I switched from RCA input to toslink optical on my D03 and the difference was like night and day!

[@toecutterjenkins]

I started with a cheap 5.1 setup for my TV. I get a lot of stuff through Craigslist and goodwill.

[@johannespersson3359]

I'm about to restore/service a 1977 Pioneer SX-750 I stumbled upon and then pair it with my Triangle Borea BR02 and a Arylic HD DAC. Did I do good? 😊

[@sethduffey9538]

Thx sir.. Reminds me of conversation with my father ,, Absent the harshness lol Cheers.. Fundamentally the Source of course.

[@zatynrock]

Randy, I wish you could make a video with a few combinations of amps, phono amps, and speakers to know what combinations we could have for the noobs like me that are forced to upgrade their old hand-me-down systems I just got a Fluance RT82 and I don't even know where to begin with the rest

[@jorgef6324]

Ha we are in the same boat! did you get any good preamp/amp/speaker combination? For now i have my rt82 playing with edifier powered speakers. Thanks.

[@zatynrock]

@@jorgef6324 He has another video where he speaks about good and cheap amps I think is "Amps under $200" with a lot of good options I'm just waiting on his review on the Douk Audio X1 to see if it's worth it and I might go for that one

[@jorgef6324]

@@zatynrock i ll watch it, and thanks for replying! Good luck with your setup

[@zatynrock]

@@jorgef6324 Good luck for you as well!

[@donpettit7107]

It occurs to me that the beauty of some of the older systems was that the engineers at the manufacturers designed packages that worked well together. You went to the stereo store, listened to a few systems at different price ranges and bought the best one you could afford. Whether Sansui or Pioneer or whatever manufacturer, a lot of the matching work had been done, and you bought the package that sounded best to you. So far, I have spent over $2,000 trying to build a system that sounds as good or better than the circa 1989 Technics rack system that I bought off Craigslist for $100 a couple years back. That’s ok, it is a hobby and I enjoy it, but in terms of quality and outlay of money, you probably couldn’t do better than picking a modern manufacturer like Emotiva or ??? that has a matched system that can be purchased wholesale. But as the CAM has stated before, part of the fun of the hobby is the pairing of different components together to see what magic results. Another excellent video to start off the week. Thanks CAM, for being that smart older brother walking us novices through the hobby.

[@glennbaxter4507]

I feel differently about that. For instance, I would set up a system for a customer consisting of Pioneer turntable and Pioneer receiver, but would never them them out the door with Pioneer speakers.

[@scottengh1175]

Synergy. I don't have a CD player or streaming. So I will do those first. But then I might try headphones and associated amp and DAC. Maybe new turntable. Would like another pair of speakers for variety. Maybe an amp again, for variety. Yeah, maybe tubes. No worries.

[@stanleycostello9610]

You got it right. A nude vs. a bonded stylus makes all the difference. Ortofon blue. AT 95EN. With a nude stylus, once it gets broken in, you'll see what your system can do.

[@Themountainman256]

Well done Randy and an enjoyable video as usual (just hunting through your back catalogue today). Unrelated to this video but just a general issue ... I live in Australia and a lot of the products you promote can be difficult to purchase or just not as good value by the time postage is paid. Maybe you can look at doing some 'international' reviews looking at products that can be easily purchased in different countries. Geshelli Lab and Emotiva are two examples of stuff that can be difficult to buy. Anyway, I love your channel ... Keep it up

[@kyron42]

The first update you should do is experiment with speaker placement.

[@Dakoya]

I agree ! It’s like painting with sound. What plays a part then in my opinion is the source

[@erics.4113]

And the room. Your speaker cabinets are just cabinets inside another cabinet being the room. If that isn't well-built too, it's kind of silly to expect miracles when you haven't addressed the space that the sound is being projected into. Any musician will tell you the room matters. A recording studio or concert hall is acoustically engineered or treated. I'm not saying it's necessary always to go to such lengths in your home. The reason many speakers measure the way they do, is because the manufacturer did their due diligence to understand the average environment that these speakers may wind up in, and they tuned them to compensate for these types of rooms or placement. But if you're buying expensive gear that was measured to perform with exacting standards, do yourself a favor and spend time on the setup. It truly means everything.

[@greenbeginner9221]

I couldn't agree more. I was frustrated with my sound until I adjusted the speaker placement and, PRESTO! I hopped out of the rabbit hole and never went back.

[@erics.4113]

@@greenbeginner9221 I'm still frustrated, or rather still learning. I'm new to this. I have some decent gear in house but I have not mastered the setup. I'm still learning so I don't fiddle all the time. I move them or adjust so that I perceive an improvement and live with and listen in that configuration for a month or more. I start to pay attention to how it performs and then try making subtle changes and note the differences. I haven't gone down the REW road and a measuring mic yet but that's coming. I also haven't done a thing to the room yet. Still learning and realize without personal experience I can't gain vicariously through other experts. I need to walk those paths myself. After all, my room is my room and all the advice may or may not help my particular situation. Just starting to trust my own ears more.. loving this music though . With any perceived shortcomings, I'm still listening to the best stereo I've ever owned and that is making me happy as ever

[@greenbeginner9221]

@@erics.4113 My room is very quirky and awkward but I just chanced on a layout that works. However, if your room is at all normal, and if you have the layout decision power, you might check out the channel New Record Day and examine the L.O.T.S. speaker placement method. I've read good things about it.

[@stevep9221]

I had a Toshiba all in one HIFdefinitely

[@Sunday_Morning570]

Top notch information Randy 👍. You Da Man!

[@patrickthunnus]

Well said, profound even 👍👍👍

[@LutherusPandragon]

Very nice video and very well explained. Recently i upgraded from pro-ject debut carbon to clearaudio concept and difference in sound was amazing Both turntables have same excalibur stylus and system i cambridge audio axa35 ( do not need anything more for 30sqm studio apartment ), cambridge audio sxa50 and cambridge audio alva duo.

[@johncooper9510]

I think I would add if you decide to go down the hole. Make sure components are compatible. 6-4 ohm speakers can be problems.