Upgrading to Broan AI ERVs (AND Necessary Customizations: Duct Silencer & MERV 13 Pre-Filter)

[@FernandoOjedaRios]

Corbett! This is the video I've been waiting for and wish I had two years ago when I did my ERV system. Noise at the supply side has been a big issue for me and my family. While they love the clean, fresh air, they hate the sound. Mine kind of sounds like running water in a distant room. I added the AC Infinity 4 inch silencer, and it did... very little. I had some luck with some baffle plugs at the supply end before the grill. But if I could have done it all over I would have upsized ducts and used the fantech big boy silencer. I have a 6 inch fantech silencer attached to my kitchen hood (a la Corbett's own design) and it's SILENT. Unfortunately, I can't get the fantech silencer into the ceiling space where my ERV lives due to a lack of room with my access panel. Anyway, all who read or view this video -- just do what Corbett does. You can't go wrong!

[@noberubes]

Which video does Corbett show you kitchen fan setup @FernandoOjedaRios

[@FernandoOjedaRios]

@@noberubes kzbin.info/www/bejne/mH7Op3akZth6rM0

[@MrDirtSkirt]

I also needed this video two years ago! I've installed two of these Broan AI units (technically one was Venmar and one was Vanee, but they're identical) and both of them are annoyingly noisey, even on low. I'd love to install silencers like this but I have a finished basement so everything is covered with drywall. I don't have the heart to start cutting holes but I guess that's the only answer.

[@HomePerformance]

@MrDirtSkirt sorry buddy

[@mcintosh.daughter]

Excellent video on upgrading your system. Im impressed on the noise reduction with the silencer.

[@HomePerformance]

Thanks Joel buddy

[@NurseAcrobat]

I appreciate the before/after comparison with the duct silencer. At regular speeds I can can hear my broan ai 210 erv if I'm near a fresh air duct but it only seems loud if the auxiliary controller in the bathroom has activated boost mode. It could be interesting to see how it sounds at 170 cfm with the duct silencer. I added the deluxe auxiliary controller in the main bathroom initially unsure what I would think of it being battery powered vs hardwired but so far the AAA batteries have lasted close to a year and I like having it turn on automatically upon sensing an increase in humidity since not everyone in my house would otherwise turn on a bathroom fan. One perk to it not being hardwired is that you can test it out without making a hole in your wall for installation. I used a surface mounted single gang box so I could just set it on a counter and eventually screwed it to the wall.

[@bradleysargent9803]

I'm glad I found this channel. I'm looking forward to designing these into my new home build in the near-ish future.

[@EPDIY]

Save some budget for consulting sessions with Corbett 😂 and a lot of frustration with the HVAC industry “pros”.

[@HomePerformance]

@VagelisPertsinis aw shucks, and sorry to hear buddy. Call if you need a short pep talk or to vent!

[@arogers9986]

I did the 6 inch version of the filter box and have been very pleased.

[@pin65371]

If you have a small compressor one thing you can do is get some air line and a head that points backwards. When you change the filters just run that air line through the duct with a shop vac to do a quick cleaning of the ducts. Obviously wear a mask while doing it though. Unless its just a really short run anyways. Then you could maybe get away with just using the shop vac. No point in putting in a new filter and still having the duct filled with dust.

[@davidhoover2446]

I put the same filter box on the fresh air side. I am currently using a MERV 16 filter and it's wonderful. The filter that comes with it lets a lot of particles through. I have a ventilating dehumidifier system. There can be some wildfire smoke outside and it doesn't come in. At least in my personal house, I like to have a MERV 16 on the fresh air and the return on the dehumidifier. I used to run a filtrete MERV 14 and it was good enough. However, my overall particle count stays very low with the MERV 16. When my air handler is not on, and I'm using the MERV 13/14 on the fresh air side I did see a significant difference in particulate counts. Not, PM2.5, but larger particles will go up. Unfortunately, the company Filti where I get those 1" MERV 16 filters from has stopped making them. So, I am going to probably custom make something when I run out of filters. I have one of those thick ducts from AC infinity on the fresh air for a short distance, then it hits the filter. That duct is kinda tough, so I can clean it. Then, the insulated ducts after that stay perfectly clean. I can't run my oversized A/C's air handler all the time for humidity reasons. So, those really good filters on the dehumidifier keeps particles down very low! I also run a Lennox MERV 16 carbon filter in my air handler. It takes particle counts down to zero in like 15 minutes. MERV 13 is more than enough if you can keep the air handler running, however!

[@youtubereview8176]

@davidhoover2446 I think you may have addressed the point that I raised in a different comment. Which IAQ monitor are you using? What particle sizes do you measure? One phrasing and way of simplifying what you've described is that when you are bringing in air from an ERV, you are only filtering the air once. When you have a clean house, and you are running an air handler, you can typically get multiple passes of the same air through a MERV 13 filter. So each time the air passes the air handler filter, the air gets cleaner so you only need a MERV 13 in the HVAC unit. The exact number of times air passes though the air handler filter depends on a number of variables, (home ACH 50, size of home, size of HVAC system in tons, HVAC fan speed, and on duration. These are simplified ways of relating to how many times air passes through the filter) Each time the air passes the filter, so long as the filter is operating close to max performance it should remove less than 75% of PM 0.1 to PM 1.0. I wonder if Corbett could still benefit from a bit of activated carbon, when there are wildfires nearby. I think Corbett has a studio HVAC class space, where he has a mini split (that probably doesn't have a filter) and the other main area of the house has an HVAC system with a filter, which is likely a 4" MERV 13 filter. Each space now has a MERV 13 filter for the incoming ERV air. I think he removed the HEPA filter from the main area of the house where it already has a HVAC system with a MERV 13 filter. If this is the case, this is less shocking, that he noticed no difference in air quality, as mentioned at 0:40.

[@davidhoover2446]

I consulted on a job that ended up with a return that makes a little bit of noise. Unrestrictive grills and ducts also carry some sound. It is the Oasis dehumidifier return that also meets up with the fresh air from the Broan AI series ERV where it mixes and gets dried. I bet that silencer would make a huge difference if I use that unit again! They said they don't mind the noise at all, but it wasn't as quiet as I expected. The Oasis 105 is ridiculous by the way. Fantastic product.

[@tweake7175]

good to see you putting a filter box in. at least you can use off the shelf filters, not some expensive special ones that only fit that model erv. i think Risinger got his back to front.

[@MikeMikula]

I did the same inline filter for my HRV. Definitely has worked well!

[@krogg5868]

A video covering cold weather and prefiltration and some of the associated issues with ERVs might be nice.

[@CMCraftsman]

I live in VT and have this unit and it’s no problem in the winter. I cut a piece of cobra ridge vent the shape of the intake hood and fastened it in there and that catches any larger stuff you don’t want making it to your particle filter in the unit.

[@nolanbillings8426]

Fantastic video, can’t wait to work with you when we are ready

[@HomePerformance]

Thx Nolan

[@josephhfry]

That long, uninsulated run that you use to pre-warm/cool the intake to your ERV... wouldn't that cause condensation on/in the duct?

[@HomePerformance]

Our 99% dewpoint is 73 degrees, but we keep the temp at 75 summertime, so no, there should not be condensation inside that duct. If it condensed on the outside in winter, then I'd see droplet marks on the concrete slab, but they're not there. :)

[@VerdiusEnergy]

Corbett, what about in the winter when 30 degree air is coming in thru the OA intake? I would imagine the dewpoint in the crawlspace will exceed 30 degrees. If your basement air is 70 degrees, anything above ~20% RH will condense. I would insulate that OA duct so you don’t have puddles (or put in a basement dehumidifier??)

[@HomePerformance]

Because it’s over a bare concrete slab, again I don’t worry about it. Anyway, there has been little evidence of any condensation dripping to the floor.

[@VerdiusEnergy]

@ Glad to hear there hasn’t been condensation. Thanks for addressing my question! 🙂

[@AdamTillontheWeb]

Interesting. Will be curious to see how loud ours is when my bits arrive (waiting for wall caps etc). Also curious if mass dampening material (like car stereo folks use) might help if it’s a matter of reverberation of the duct.

[@iankreidich8698]

There are several open seams that allow air to bypass the filter inside the AC Infinity filter box. Easily fixed with caulk or mastic.

[@HomePerformance]

Thanks Ian!

[@theinfernalcraftsman]

Clean install as usual. I have been thinking more about an erv for the work shop. Odd usage but I need as much clean air as possible and to exhaust dusty nasty air out while keeping as much cool air in as possible. Been looking at some cheap import ones as it's not a house so not worth the full cost.

[@DeuceDeuceBravo]

I think that's a very smart use of an ERV. But if it's a really dusty environment you might want a separate pre-filter so you're not clogging the ERV filters all the time.

[@theinfernalcraftsman]

@@DeuceDeuceBravo I also have air cleaners but yes a good filter to keep the gunk out of the core is definitely needed. Or the other method which prefer is moving somewhere with nicer weather where I can actually have the shop doors open more than a couple days a year.

[@chaseweeks2708]

The more I see and read, the more I think I'm going to opt for v-bank filters on the ERV intake and furnace stack from the very start when we build. I don't wan to have to care about what the filter options are for any of the devices, nor do I want to have multiple types and sizes. Also two filters lasts 3 to 4 times as long, and I'm lazy.

[@TokRobban]

Nice, swedish sound silencer! 😊 I actually don't think the dirt around the supply air vent is due to poor filtration. I believe more that it gets static around the vent and the dirt is from the dust that is in the house that gets stuck. What does it look like inside the duct? is there dirt build up there too?

[@HomePerformance]

You should stick around to the end, man, it is INSANE INSIDE THAT DUCT

[@TokRobban]

@@HomePerformance I was thinking more about the filtered side of the ventilation unit (hope that wasn't it 😆)

[@FernandoOjedaRios]

@@HomePerformance Curious about the result myself. I have Merv 13 filters for my Panasonic ERV, and I still get the dust ring at the Fantech supply grill. Worth noting I live in LA, so the air isn't great -- but I've always wondered if I upgraded to a MERV 15 if those rings would disappear?

[@TokRobban]

@@FernandoOjedaRios it is also very common here in Sweden that we get rings around the air vents, even though the ducts are clean on the Supply side. On the supply side, we almost always have "F7 ePM1 50-65%” think it corresponds to “Merv 13” maybe? but maybe we can get an update in a while and see if that helped. 😊

[@tweake7175]

my understanding of it, is thats true. however my own vents don't have that issue despite me having a pretty unclean house. i think a lot of it is down to air flow speed creating static. vents adjusted to tight and getting air velocity up high.

[@christophercooke9376]

Had to rewatch. Was thinking at first that you should have turned the ERV 90 degrees to make less turns on your ducting, but realize that have to still rework a lot of piping and one of your exhausts would still be crazy. Like the idea of one exhaust coming out of top but wouldn't that still add some resistance to air flow or would it be negligible?

[@superspeeder]

Corbett, the 80% solution to limiting fan noise and mechanical vibration from a rigid duct system is to isolate it from the mechanical unit with 3-4 feet of flex duct. Most of the fan noise passes out through the thin plastic walls of the flex instant reflecting down the duct. You can also DIY a sound muffler by going from 8” up to 12” duct for several feet then back to 8”, and lining the 12” section with pieces of Rockwool Comfortboard cut to line the inside (bend them to fit). That intake pipe is why an exterior filter with bug screen is a good idea! 😊 Devil’s Advocate; perhaps the filter is set to catch and hold all the nasties so you pull them all out with the filter instead of having to vacuum?

[@HomePerformance]

Silver linings :) I wouldn’t want to try bending comfortboard though, worth the cost to have someone else do it.

[@superspeeder]

@ to be honest, I’m impressed at the cost of that muffler. I certainly would have thought it would be much more expensive!

[@youtubereview8176]

@superspeeder This is a great point that, "the 80% solution to limiting fan noise and mechanical vibration from a rigid duct system is to isolate it from the mechanical unit with 3-4 feet of flex duct." I was thinking that for health reasons, it's generally better not to use mineral wool or fiberglass insulation within ducts, I personally would shy away from that route, and just use the Broan T-5 configuration aka in the HVAC ductwork. However, I did some digging and you can also find some Neoprene foam silencers from AC Infinity. I'm not sure how much better (or perhaps worse) neoprene is than mineral wool, for health. The main idea is that it gets bad when the material is deforming and shedding. There are also some metal only silencers which might be good enough, and great for health.

[@superspeeder]

@@youtubereview8176 good points regarding the health aspect. I would think maybe Rockwool would be more “inert” and less likely to break down than foam, but I really have no idea as I’m sure Comfortboard has adhesives in it. There are probably pros and cons to most materials, and unless some nerdy KZbinrs decide to ask some experts about it we’ll probably never know. 😉

[@HomePerformance]

The mineral wool is not in contact with the air, there’s a liner

[@Werdna12345]

14:40 I’m not sure I understand where he recommended the silencer should be on this diagram

[@HomePerformance]

It doesn’t need to go on the diagram, that was my point- my system is different than the universal layout

[@stephanszymanski9348]

This is really cool, just found your page, do you have any set up tips or intro vids for home owners wanting to diy or upgrade their hvac builder grade home? Have a vented attic and insulated flex duct in my home, thank you!

[@HomePerformance]

That’s a very big topic, Stephen- lots and lots of tips scattered thru more than 500 videos. If you want a focused improvement list, I do consulting too: buildingperformanceworkshop.com/video-consulting

[@stephanszymanski9348]

@ thank you, will explore your channel and site more and possibly reach out. Thanks for your quick response !

[@martinlutherkingjr.5582]

How do you measure whether your air quality is good? Pm2.5? Vocs? Problem i find with vocs is lots of non harmful things set it off so it’s hard to tell if you have a problem or not

[@shubinternet]

Corbett has already shown that monitoring for VOCs in general is not helpful. You have to monitor for very specific VOCs. Either way, you also want to monitor for particles, including but not limited to PM2.5.

[@martinlutherkingjr.5582]

@ How do you monitor for specific vocs? All the meters I’ve seen don’t distinguish between different vocs. What other particles besides PM2.5 and PM1?

[@mattevans5236]

Great video. I am really interested in the AI 210 but there was a different video showing that they don't hit their rated CFM numbers. As you point out, I want lots of CFM budget headroom and a Broan 210 that's really only making 160 or so concerns me. Have you flow tested the AI 210 before? Can you match the claimed results?

[@HomePerformance]

I show in this video actually- with my upsized ducting, we only hit 175 tops. Yes, it’s overstated. Renewaire Premium X is next size up.

[@mattevans5236]

@HomePerformance I was actually going to use EV PREM L bc of CFM. Faceplate on EVPL is 280, X is 380. Are those numbers also overstated, and I really want the X?

[@HomePerformance]

Good q- don’t have hands on experience with those

[@youtubereview8176]

​@@mattevans5236 Could you get two Broan AI series 210 CFM ERVs? What is your home square footage and number of occupants? When you have a party you could open a window, unless you want to design your system to not require that. As stated in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaKbd5hqqLF5hdE If your home is designed as well as a world class engineer who has kids who open the door a lot and optimized for IAQ you need less CFM of fresh air than typically required.

[@MatthewBayard]

I hope they come to Australia 🦘

[@KillraStealer2]

I dont really know what i am talking about, but wont you get condensation on the inside of the incoming air duct on hot and humid summer days with the passive heat bleed before the ERV?

[@HomePerformance]

Yes, that is possible, but as Ken from Panasonic points out in this video (kzbin.info/www/bejne/emfQgIKcjduqeNUsi=lDaQtxRIs-RG7JwS) because the airflow never stops it’s less of a concern.

[@KillraStealer2]

@HomePerformance okey!

[@darthtater]

I was just wondering about your crawl space and access. How big is your access floor hole? if you want to get equipment in and out?

[@HomePerformance]

Ours is basically 30x36 inches, works great in a 4 ft crawl

[@cokeiceeeee]

Any regrets on any of yur home build selections? I am closing on finishing and only have 2... not using some sort of tji or engineered web truss for floor. Took me forever to get it flat with planing. 2nd is siding. I did hardie and man once you are done putting it up it is not fun to paint it.

[@CMCraftsman]

Weird. I have a Broan ai ERV and I can’t hear it at all. I was concerned it wasn’t working because I couldn’t hear it standing right next to it.

[@ronm6585]

Thank you. 👍🏻

[@HomePerformance]

You're welcome Ron

[@RustyNail600]

Have you had any luck finding a source of Merv 13 filters for the Broan AI series that don't cost $40+ each? We have dozens of these units in our rentals and I absolutely hate how expensive they are. I basically burn through a filter in every unit each year because of wildfire season. It honestly shouldn't cost more than $20.

[@NurseAcrobat]

I think the best long term solution would be what was shown in the video, adding an inline filter box. You can buy two inch thick 14 by 20 merv 13 filters in bulk for close to $15 each. Cheaper filters that also last longer due to being much larger. I have an in-line filter box for both fresh and stale air on my broan ai 210 so the inside of the ERV stays clean.

[@RustyNail600]

@NurseAcrobat yeah, that's one solution for sure. I'd rather keep a simple setup with a Merv13 IN the ventilation unit itself. I don't mind paying $20 each, but I just looked again and Broan sells theirs for $50 each! What is going on here? Seems like price gouging.

[@tweake7175]

you really need an external filter box. leave the erv filters to protect the core and use off the shelf filters for the air cleaning. that way you rarely change the erv filters. at some point they will stop making those filters.

[@johnwhite2576]

Corbett BroN one seems to have better core and considerably cheaper. Any other reason u like it over the Ai models?

[@HomePerformance]

@johnwhite2576 just the ones I give in the vid- it’s also an AI technically

[@EDRIS202]

Heyyyy! Can I purchase the unit that you're taking out?? I just purchased my first home , and we really want to clean the air. I'd like to also use your services Thanks 🙏

[@jko0526]

I noticed that your house is at 47% humidity. What is the average humidity in your house? Also you have the same thermostat that my Mitsubishi intell-heat system uses. I hate that thermostat!

[@tullgutten]

Now explain to me. At 5 minute mark you say you preheat the incoming air by having un insulated pipe. Now your temperature difference for the ERV is less and you can't recover as much heat anymore. Yes the incoming supply air might be higher temperature but so will your exhaust. Don't you agree?

[@user-ru9ne3bh8f]

Wow. That seems pretty noisy as someone that has never had an ERV. I would expect it to be SILENT. I can't imagine how upset I would be after implementing every sound deadening detail I could to make my new home super quiet only to realize I can hear my ERV running. Genuinely surprised.