Upward's Dark Secret [TF2]

durrbill loses it
3kliksphilip videos:
Stair Clipping in Counter-Strike - • Stair Clipping in Coun...
The Spiral Staircase Saga - • The Spiral Staircase Saga
My mf DAWG deroplat:
/ deroplat48
MY SOCIALS:
/ durrbill
/ durrbill_
MUSIC USED:
A Hat in Time OST - It's Raining in Mafia Town
A Hat in Time OST - Murder on the Owl Express
A Hat in Time OST - Train Rush
A Hat in Time OST - Clocktowers Beneath The Sea

[@durrbill]

slightly more meta-esque type tf2 video. definitely interested to see if people enjoy this kinda content, would be down to do more of it in the future

[@SgtZook]

yes please. I can't consume enough of this type of stuff

[@alexanderscout]

you should talk about counter strikes clipping lol you have a feild day with that

[@unspeakablerja8556]

Yessss

[@QualityDoggo]

Always cool to peek behind the scenes and see some of the silly TF2 design shenanigans

[@pinguino5105]

when they don't clip the bottom step, that is to make it easier to tell if you're on the stair or not.

[@systemisdead]

my grandma also hates stairs

[@thunderkluender3975]

Bro same

[@Uncle_Fritz]

For real

[@durrbill]

she was so real for this

[@Uncle_Fritz]

@@durrbill real

[@frinpi7473]

​@@durrbillreal

[@IBeforeAExceptAfterK]

I don't trust stairs. They're always up to something.

[@zlendy_]

They're always up to SOMETHING That's the 143rd time I've complained about stairs

[@aaronh4731]

Haha😐

[@CaptainM.]

And down

[@Kailiwak]

Stair stabs

[@gneu1527]

When I realized the joke I felt like backstabbing you even though we are probably in far away countries from eachother

[@CongaYT]

Clipping's a very simple thing, but easy to forget when you make last minute changes Fun fact: For stairs, you should use block_bullet textures instead of player_clip textures, since while player_clip allows explosives to pass through and explode in a position where the majority of the explosion gets eaten by the stairs, block_bullet explodes the rocket early in such a way where it'll cleanly hit across the entire stair geometry. If you've ever had your explosives mysteriously not do damage to someone appropriately using the stairs before, this is why

[@michaeljonathan9715]

Or just Clip it, it block both player and explosives to not be awkward.

[@asadi145]

NERD EMOJI!!!11111 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓

[@HIFU1665]

no way it's conga ror2

[@redstonewarrior0152]

​@@michaeljonathan9715 Clip brushes only stop players. Block bullets stops players and bullets. Use block bullets on your stairs.

[@ouroya]

explosion bugs also can happen on slightly uneven ground and it's endlessly frustrating

[@VanessaMagick]

My absolute favourite clipbrush is in Left 4 Dead 2. On the first map of Cold Stream there's a small rock holding up a fallen branch you need to walk over to reach a ledge. For whatever reason, the clipbrush of this rock has been smoothed out over what must have been a completely different and much larger rock model, letting you just kind of stand in the air for a good five feet next to the actual rock

[@PretzelSage]

Old rock model got replaced when Cold Stream was officially brought over.

[@VanessaMagick]

​@@PretzelSage Yeah, that's what I figure, but it was never fixed. Cold Stream has a lot of weird clipping but in a "community map weirdness" kind of way. That rock is hilarious.

[@PretzelSage]

@@VanessaMagick there are 2 versions of the map on the workshop, if the many inconsistencies and bugs happen to bother you. One is a "fixed up" version of the one we have now, no changes other than scripts and clipbrushes (specifically that rock you mentioned). The other brings back the original models, which also fixes that.

[@MaxTherion]

I could totally watch a "talking for 12 hours of Upward" if it was made by you

[@ChessiCat]

As someone who makes maps, specifically for Garry's Mod. First stair clipping is always a rather annoying issue, the issue is that you obviously want your stairs to be nice and smooth, however if you take that clip brush flush to the ground over the first step you then get a problem where if you run at the first step from the side it has an extended collision because of the clip brush protruding past the step. Really the only solution for this problem is to make sure that the stair set is set into the wall or surface etc at least one stair length so as you cannot run at the first step from the side.

[@calcutt4]

I normally bevel the edges of the stairs

[@Marxon1134]

I usually bevel or make the slope leading to the first step just shy of 45° to lessen this effect as much as possible. I find having one bump upon starting up the stairs usually isn't too bad.

[@3zzzTyle]

You can just add another small triangular slope to the side of main clip that's poking out.

[@ShorK]

omg now i really wanna see someone pull off the boomerang stab. great video btw

[@durrbill]

legit someone sent me one on twitter like an hour after the video came out LMAO much appreciated

[@ShorK]

LMAO@@durrbill can i have a link!?

[@durrbill]

twitter.com/TheZombers_YT/status/1748154855594807367?s=20

[@KnightGuy]

it's like that feeling when you're almost at the top of the stairs but your foot catches on the last one and you faceplant onto the floor.

[@andro_king]

Thankfully I learned clipping early on and always get suspicious when I don't see enough pink in my maps

[@calcutt4]

I make GMod maps rather than TF2 and I still playerclip everything

[@DukeOnkled]

So THAT'S why playing Demoknight feels like the game's actively working against you.

[@mazlli]

the button labeled "CM" on hammer allows you to see collision meshes for props/models if they have one. if its yellow then the game is using that props collision mesh, if its purple then its collision mesh was turned off and it was probably clipped differently or something. a tip for future hammer videos

[@durrbill]

oh appreciate that, i tried googling it for a bit but couldn't quite find the right combination of terms to figure it out, much thanks

[@retrobat1631]

The Librarian hates unclipped stairs.

[@greybigfoot1722]

9:20 bro mentioned Junction like people actually play on it 💀

[@durrbill]

much as dante was guided by virgil to the depths of hell, i too have taken my own voyages to the depths

[@Bacxaber]

I like Junction.

[@thataintfalco7106]

@@Bacxaberreported for terrorism

[@uhoh6166]

@@Bacxaberbaxcaber likes junction? SoT has fallen billions must grind Athena

[@KopperNeoman]

​@@uhoh6166on... SAFER SEAS. 😱

[@lexi-hx6je]

one of the most immediate things noticeable in this video is that you have such a great delivery and commentary voice, something that a lot of larger channels seem to struggle with. top notch editing too! i hope this channel will blow up in the next few months

[@retrolinkx]

You know, I've played Overwatch and TF2 for over 1000 hours each and when I noticed something A LOT in OW that I never noticed in TF2, and that was getting stuck on walls and little objects that stick out of the wall leading to my death and seeing you talk about clipping in the source engine at 1:08 made a whole lot of sense to me. I wish OW would add something like that to their maps because it's a fucking pain to get caught on a lip of a wall while you're trying to back out.

[@thewoodpeckers655]

It’s funny how quickly you went from empathizing with the map creators to completely shutting on them once you realized it was a valve map 😂

[@boxfigs1710]

"First stair syndrome" is like that intentionally so that it doesn't affect movement perpendicular to the stairs.

[@PoutyBun]

Uhhh, this would explain why rocketing over slopes felt like it never worked on this map. All the vital slope/trimping staircases aren't clipped properly and it'd just make me think I was performing trimps wrong lmao thanks for clearing that up cutie. Def talk more tf2 nitpicks and gripes!

[@jamesverner9132]

As a heavy main i just walk up the stairs like a normal mercenary. Never failed me. Not once so.... I don't really have a dog in this fight.

[@windhelmguard5295]

i reflexively jump when i approach stairs anyway.

[@aiden_table]

Love the writing! I like the way you used a common frustration in some players to show the mechanics of an underappreciated part of map design. hook with a 'has this ever happened to you' moment and turned it into a wonderfully written informational video!

[@TanteiRotana]

This was a very cool video thank you for sharing, insane that Valve has prevented so many soldiers & demos from getting epic kills due to not using clip brushes. I think LED's 'Everything Wrong with TF2's Dustbowl' video deserves a watch as well, it only goes over one map but he talks about a boatload of weird little issues with it. Thanks a ton for the upload

[@Fail-harold]

5:09 i love the duality of worst stairs possible right next to a clip so good it's z-fighting with the stair prop

[@NymphieJP]

On Upward regarding the stairs next to RED spawn: they can't clip those stairs without causing a visual error when playing. You'd get stuck if you went around the wall too tightly OR you'd go up stairs that aren't actually there. The only way to properly fix stairs like that is to have them be further in and leave a gap for the clip to properly applied. The other example on the other map also has this issue. They'd need to make a recess for stairs to go to make it look and act properly.

[@shadokwastaken]

omg the neuron activation i got when seeing 2kki footage in a tf2 video (which was pretty interesting)

[@ActualKuma]

The first clip in a Tris's spy frag movie Sun, Surf and Banana Splits from 5 years ago is a trickstab using the boomerang tree. Tris has recently quit playing the game due to the mental toll it was taking on them but check out that video.

[@pl_upward]

Very true! Upward is known for it's clipping issues: those spots where you get stuck in infinite falling state, those signs where you get stuck forever, angled walls for wallsticking and more. In my opinion most of those stuff add depth to the map but those stairs may indeed ruin experience for some people.

[@pl_upward]

Let's not forget those cliffs near spiralling bridge that were patched like 3 times and you still can go out of bounds in there xd

[@bujustic]

I got pushed into the sign as a medic with 90% uber - a moment of silence for the game that valve threw

[@toxic_shr00m]

*its

[@DEWILL]

3:36 Wonder how you got these camera movements, any external programs you used?

[@durrbill]

ah this was by using a few in game commands: sv_noclipspeed .2 cl_yawspeed 20 and then binding a key to +left, and holding that key while moving to the right at the same time while noclipped

[@DEWILL]

@@durrbill lol must be pain adjusting to the right speed, thanks!

[@themertaza318]

Its very possible a few of these stairs are deliberately not clipped to reduce the rollout power of classes in the early stages.

[@NotCon]

great video!! loved the music choice, voiceover and writing. its a niche enough topic to interest a lot of fans and keep the tf2 youtube content fresh, but not too niche so it doesnt make it uninteresting for others. i think its important to create a relationship and understanding between players and mapmakers (along with other community content creators) and this video does a great job of that. id love more videos like this in the future :)

[@businessdog5220]

babe wake up new durrbill video just dropped

[@justaguy_589]

your pfp and name make this oddly funnier

[@Macelroy]

As I map maker I get unnecessarily upset when i find unclipped stairs in official maps lmao However I do want to add that some people do leave the first stair unclipped deliberately as a way to give visual feedback to the player that they have began climbing the stairs, differs between map makers tho. Personally I try to avoid it except for very specific circumstances Also banger video, that's a sub for me o7

[@leo-ly7es]

This is what no game update does to a comunity

[@TristanIonizedBerri]

The thumbnail made me laugh, the very thought of a bunch of stairs being pure evil.

[@MarioDarkboom]

always kept some of these stairs at the back of my mind to watch out for whenever i played on those maps.

[@d4ngerd4n]

This vid made me smash the bell icon. A definite +rep moment, this man is out here making fresh tf2 content in 2024

[@twpsyn]

missed opportunity to say "my good friend the clip brush, I keep running into him"

[@xellella4221]

great choice of music! I love hearing about these small design nuances that can have such a big impact. I started making a goldsrc map in hammer a long time ago but never finished it. I've been thinking about getting back into it.

[@gabrielsabode]

when that A Hat in Time OST - Clocktowers Beneath The Sea hits

[@NoVIcE_Source]

clipping hell IS real and you WILL be sent there at the first sign of defiance

[@Gnome_Tank]

It's always a good day when durrbill uploads

[@yesthisisdonut]

that fucking staircase on upward has been bugging me forever. being a mapper, i knew it had to be sloppy clipping but i never bothered to check in-game because i was sure anyway. there we go. nice video bud😊

[@resusv.f.8549]

Love when people use a hat in time osts for their vids

[@concorde9065]

we've dealt with it this long, we'll deal with it forever longer

[@TTancevat]

I like the Yume 2kki clip there at the beginning. I didn't expect to see that here!

[@Fumblerjumblersinc.]

"these are stairs" "Dear god..." "there's more" "No D:"

[@saxeladude]

1:38 wall is the spy

[@rornir42069]

Awesome to see someone else reference the klikempire, his talks about jank in CS carry over to TF2 way too often, especially when some fixes done in CSGO were never made in TF2 lol.

[@ansonx10]

That command to show clipping brushes are fun to use in all source games. I've seen videos saying "did you know you can stand HERE?" or "There seems to be an invisible wall here" etc. when talking about games (like HL2) but I've never understood why they don't just show the clip brushes instead of trying to guess where it is. I guess they don't even know about it. I'm not even a map maker or anything; I just found it on my own. I personally prefer to use the wireframe version of the clip brush command (which I think is 1 instead of 2) along with the command to show the collision for mesh objects.

[@thedeergod435]

> video starts out with a Yume 2kki clip Aight I’m instantly subbed

[@happmacdonald]

I just watched a video that claimed the first stair cutoff is intentional so that walking down the stairs a player can get a visual indication of when they've reached the end of the stairs

[@mattmatt7294]

Great vid + Treat profile photo jumpscare at the end

[@serg_sel7526]

Aaah yes, the not only source engine code spagetti, but map spagetti

[@Portal2Player]

The first stair syndrome isn't really a big problem, and is probably like that because if it was clipped, it would have a small wall of the clip brush you could hit. I'm probably just saying this cause I don't map for tf2, only portal, and in that game, all stairs don't have clips at the bottom.

[@oliNoble]

worst valve made map clipping award goes to merc park blu spawn

[@durrbill]

dawg you can walk RIGHT through those fences in that room, how did i never know about this this would have been much funnier for the ending gag. good find

[@CrimsonFox36]

"Falling into weird holes" 💀

[@nosville22]

myself and many others actually preffer first step of stairs be unclipped

[@MatthewSi__]

I focused more on that NomNomNami pfp on steam in 0:14 than the actual video 💀 Literally best shit I've seen all day

[@supershid464]

that's one way to explain your lack of skill

[@SteveCenders]

disappointed there was no mention of rockets being eaten by stairs

[@jjurss7263]

1:20 Getting caught on tiny little details in the walls and fucking dying because of it is my biggest peeve with Overwatch. The number of times I have gotten caught on some miniscule detail of the wall and died is too high to count

[@berdy146]

The biggest dark secret of upward is Everytime I play it I always get distracted by the giant view the map has

[@gneu1527]

I actually agree with you, getting stuck on a small object is painful. Clip brush all the stairs.

[@jameshubert6103]

*Stairs has an incline that needs an extra step* TF2 Players: Well now this map is unplayable

[@stupidratt]

i wonder what upward would look like without any of the miscillaneous buildings and such

[@gallofilm]

tris discovered the boomerang tree.

[@atruepanda1782]

I appreciate the Hat in Time music

[@SeaRavioli]

I still LOVE Upward.

[@jospwasp3504]

ive heard the first stair syndrome stairs are done that way to make sure the stair sits flush with neighboring geometry. if it isnt done that way players could get stuck on the tiny bit of clip brush sticking out at the bottom. so the lesser of two evils.

[@pyroman50]

2kki in the intro mega based

[@clairespivak2953]

I like when theres the jitter at the bottom step. Its another point of feedback for where I am. Its small enough that its not disruptive, but noticeable enough that it helps me navigate where I'm not looking.

[@KlayMence]

2:10 Wait, what?! I never paid attention to this since now !

[@gumbus3876]

So THAT’S how Muselk found all those extreme rancho relaxo spots...

[@MegaAniLinkFan]

Wow you definitely answered the question of why so many people die in certain areas of tf2.

[@PD_CĪPHĒR]

A fellow mountain lab enjoyer i see... "hell yeah dude"

[@annoyannoy]

3:24 Pier also has a beam that pushes you off

[@lumensmith9787]

First-stair syndrome is actually a conscious design decision. It happens to screw with ramp sliding very badly, but the reason it exists is because it gives visual feedback for knowing the exact moment you walk into a staircase, which in some scenarios can be very important. When it comes to clipping maps, generally stairs with a large gameplay focus will have the first stair not be clipped for that reason. In most cases, jumping classes will already be airborne if trying to rampslide, so it isn't that big of an issue. It also prevents some other random shenanigans and spies can take advantage of it to do extremely early stairstabs since the tiny boost in height is enough to get away with that. (seriously try that, good players eventually develop muscle memory for avoiding spy stabs which you can take advantage of with those tiny steps. It doesn't matter that they have a huge amount of time to avoid it when compared to a traditional stab since they don't even think it's possible yet. I'm sure you've reached the point where you start to take advantage of the things everyone expects bad spies to do. I try not to rely on trickstabs, but it's the most satisfying thing ever to trickstab someone who is expecting a trickstab.)

[@rhamkin1336]

Heya tf2 mapper here! Awesome video, really explains our mind set when clipping the map, also yeah valve is really WEIRD with clipping in their maps :p

[@Crafterrian]

There is another problem on Upward that I wish they would also fix. The spawn door in the tunnel when it is open clips into the pathway above that spawn blocking it.

[@yeettusmaxsemus623]

I love your use of the A hat in time soundtrack

[@bananashoplifter3440]

Guess this explains why I'm always getting stuck on the stairs outside spawn on 2fort and in the sewer tunnels? Always makes me paranoid lol

[@uis246]

Source spaghetti broke stairs. They worked in Quake, but in Valve broken them since HL1.

[@shadowbryant0198]

Ahhh… no wonder when i returned i kept jumping up stairs

[@Myahster]

deroplat "ornabug" nulltox mentioned. love that guy

[@milliondollarmistake]

This video feels like a very old STAR_ video (this is a good thing btw). Way back in the day ster made a video talking about Badlands (or rocket jumping, one of those) and mentioned a specific spot just before the spiral where the clipping was off. Shortly afterwards it actually got fixed because that was back when TF2 had a dev team. If you're wondering where the spot was it's the little perch that faces spiral; there's a wooden plank in the spot that became smoothed out.

[@Xenrel]

Pier also has wooden beams or something after the first point which also have push triggers.

[@michaelbowman6684]

8:18 That kind of staircase is done on purpose, they weren't thinking of you jumping backwards onto a staircase and having your momentum canceled due to geometry, they were trying to create a tactile response to alert players that they have just started going up a staircase. It's an outdated and oftentimes problematic philosophy, but it's also very much _not_ an accident.

[@kidsquid4458]

BABE WAKE UP NEW DURRBILL VID JUST DROPPED

[@nvvv_]

I like when the first step is clipped because you get a bit of feedback as to when you've touched the staircase. I've also never gotten stuck on one in my thousands of hours wat.

[@coughfee1416]

0:30 Self assisted kill, maybe we should add that in the kill feed

[@atray6579]

Damn, that Hat in Time music hits hard... 😢

[@Tycitron6000]

Damn i got Urotsuki jumpscared at the beginning.

[@skinwalker69420]

I don't think a major update is gonna save us guys

[@maxchrome_]

The Dustbowl has also really ugly unclipped stairs on the first area, right after the first cappoint. Every single other stair on the map is clipped properly. But has a first-stair syndrome. Xd

[@cantidolordofblackflames]

thank you for the informative video. made me hire a guy to do an inspection on the stair clipping in my house

[@The_Boondoggler]

Now that I learned about this injustice I am outraged and infuriated (real)

[@HalfAsleepSam]

I love clip brushes, not just because they make the game easier to play, but also because it's fun to make them

[@RedCircleGuy-sy8tv]

this is perfect for my pyro bird stuff

[@Pudding404]

I live for these game engine videos. It doesn't seem like it warrants a video, but even as a non-map maker this is so interesting. This is the magic of wonky game engines I guess, lol.

[@adrianmalinowski1073]

It does explains couple of wtf moments I had years ago